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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:10:00 -
[1]
CCP made new feature that lets people convert GTC into game item that can be traded on station markets. But for some odd reason, they went the extra step to make sure that people didn't undock with them.
Why?
To me this is just one more little factoid that shows how CCP is afraid to be hardcore, they want to make the game more soft and cudly just like WoW. There's absolutely nothing wrong with letting people risk transporting that stuff, and it would make piracy more worthwhile.
All the hardcore game features were put in place by the original devs, 2003-2005, all the new features seem to either nerf the old hardcore elements or just standard mainstream stuff.
This by itself isn't that important, but it is an example of a whole pattern of game changes. It frustrates me.
Thanks for reading. Your time will not be reimbursed.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:11:00 -
[2]
You can just buy a 300m module and throw it in your cargohold and be as "hardcore" as you want to be. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:13:00 -
[3]
I'm sure the only reason I can still do that is cause that game feature was also implemented by the original devs, not these new WoW types
but maybe the nerf is on their todo list
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Htrag
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:14:00 -
[4]
without really knowing their reasons, I'd have to agree.
I'd love to blow up a ship and have one of them drop.
However, it may be some legal technicality regarding a real money item.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:16:00 -
[5]
Can you imagine the whines on the forum? "I got my ship blown up and now I'm out $200 in GTC" ? __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:16:00 -
[6]
There's no legal issue, just as losing your ship with mods that costs 300 mil doesn't mean CCP owes you 15 dollars
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Terianna Eri Can you imagine the whines on the forum? "I got my ship blown up and now I'm out $200 in GTC" ?
no different than any other gank of expensive ship. Using the current PLEX prices, there's more than 10,000 dollars worth of stuff destroyed every day
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Htrag However, it may be some legal technicality regarding a real money item.
And that is most likely the case. No other item in your cargo bay is directly asociated with your rl money like a plex card so its probably some legal mumbo jumbo. Also it would make tranferring isk from illegal isk sellers to a buyer very hard to trace. Isk sellers have tons of isk so they buy gtc off the market and then give out the plex cards by jetcan or some other method to the buyer and he buyer then converts back to isk.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:24:00 -
[9]
There can't be a legal issue with proper EULA statements.
Entropia does it already, it's virtual economy is directly tied to real money
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:28:00 -
[10]
Then is most likely to keep isk sellers from laundering thier isk.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:30:00 -
[11]
Legal issues aside, the majority of the players see the plex item as something that is worth actual money. Subjecting them to the same scale of loss and scams will provide CCP with more work* than the bit of code that keeps them locked in stations. It also protects people that don't or should know better from themselves. Personally, I'd have kept the GTC's out of the game entirely and added the 30 day split on the website part of the GTC trade.
* Petitions. Emo posts on this and other forums. Bad publicity due to (mis)information. Etc.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ephemeron There can't be a legal issue with proper EULA statements.
Entropia does it already, it's virtual economy is directly tied to real money
As soon as the property of someone else gets involved (money) the EULA becomes very disputable and would most likely get thrown out of the window in the face of real laws and judicial precedences. CCP knows that the EULA would not protect them.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:32:00 -
[13]
ok, can you explain how Entropia handles this from legal perspective? What can they do that EVE can't?
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ephemeron
All the hardcore game features were put in place by the original devs, 2003-2005, all the new features seem to either nerf the old hardcore elements or just standard mainstream stuff.
You mean features like gate guns, concord buffs, insurance, cloaking and emergency warping? Sounds real hardcore back then --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Stitcher
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:33:00 -
[15]
Why the hell would anyone in their right mind WANT to put that kind of real-life value of money on the line? -
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:35:00 -
[16]
defensive buffs were necessary as ships got much more powerful. You could kill people a lot more easily back then than you can now.
Now people have insta-warping covert ops transports, jump freighters, and jump bridges to avoid the risk of 0.0 travel.
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Raynge
The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Stitcher Why the hell would anyone in their right mind WANT to put that kind of real-life value of money on the line?
to be hardcore, weren't you paying attention
\o/
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stitcher Why the hell would anyone in their right mind WANT to put that kind of real-life value of money on the line?
You see killmails with billions in cargos of t1 haulers and stuff often enough. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if plexes start dropping would this be possible. -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Stitcher Why the hell would anyone in their right mind WANT to put that kind of real-life value of money on the line?
Plenty of people would, some because they are dumb, others because they are smart and know what they are doing.
Your typical mothership pilot puts $1000 USD on the line in combat titan pilots can have $10,000 worth of stuff on the line
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ephemeron defensive buffs were necessary as ships got much more powerful. You could kill people a lot more easily back then than you can now.
Now people have insta-warping covert ops transports, jump freighters, and jump bridges to avoid the risk of 0.0 travel.
Ok I'll agree with this. POS logistics was needlessly hard before but making them defendable by a deathstar POS was just not the way to go imo.
Hey man, help me troll the carebear dorks on the forums and the ones that got into the CSM if you want to help make things more hardcore. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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PeachesAndCream
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:54:00 -
[21]
EVE isn't Entropia, and all virtual "assets" in this game are effectively 100% CCP property and not for sale. For that line of comparison to work, CCP would have to: begin selling virtual assets, establish a cash value on said assets, and protect consumers from scams. You used that "300mil=$15" analogy, and it fails completely because it violates the EULA to do such transactions, making your reference to it as a legitimizer for the proposed change completely hysterical.
And unlike virtual assets being sold in crappy MMOs nobody's ever heard of, GTCs represent the purchase of a real life service. REAL. LIFE. SERVICE. Not a pixellated tutu for your cyber kitty. There is nothing virtual about it, even if the transaction takes place within the game environment. And arguably the forums were already a small part of the game environment to begin with.
Besides, you can write what you want in an EULA, but EULAs are not a seriously upheld document in court, and it's almost certainly going to fail in a battle against consumer protection laws. So yes, its a legal issue. Your gameplay considerations are completely voided by that fact. I'm all for griefing carebears and kicking babies in the face, but this is just plain stupid.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.12.21 01:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ephemeron But for some odd reason, they went the extra step to make sure that people didn't undock with them.
Because you can use them from anywhere in the galaxy, so theoretically you shouldn't have a real need to move them
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 02:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ephemeron But for some odd reason, they went the extra step to make sure that people didn't undock with them.
Because you can use them from anywhere in the galaxy, so theoretically you shouldn't have a real need to move them
ah, well, that just shows yet another extra carebear design feature
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.21 02:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: PeachesAndCream EVE isn't Entropia, and all virtual "assets" in this game are effectively 100% CCP property and not for sale. For that line of comparison to work, CCP would have to: begin selling virtual assets, establish a cash value on said assets, and protect consumers from scams. You used that "300mil=$15" analogy, and it fails completely because it violates the EULA to do such transactions, making your reference to it as a legitimizer for the proposed change completely hysterical.
And unlike virtual assets being sold in crappy MMOs nobody's ever heard of, GTCs represent the purchase of a real life service. REAL. LIFE. SERVICE. Not a pixellated tutu for your cyber kitty. There is nothing virtual about it, even if the transaction takes place within the game environment. And arguably the forums were already a small part of the game environment to begin with.
Besides, you can write what you want in an EULA, but EULAs are not a seriously upheld document in court, and it's almost certainly going to fail in a battle against consumer protection laws. So yes, its a legal issue. Your gameplay considerations are completely voided by that fact. I'm all for griefing carebears and kicking babies in the face, but this is just plain stupid.
Ok that explains some things, but I'm still skeptical that there is no legal way for CCP to protect itself from lawsuit over a lost game item.
Legal system can't be that ridiculous. There is a point, that consumer willingly has to cross, that he assumes personal responsibility for his actions. You can't simply blame everyone but yourself for every bad thing that happens to you.
Are there any real lawyers here who'd be interested in examining this possibility?
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Klandi
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.12.21 02:09:00 -
[25]
Yep - that one was noticed
CCP can sell stuff (as the GTC and virtual items bear witness) and they will cos it is their game - as they can also make up the rules as they go along (and they can cos it is their IP)
They can say that YOU can't sell stuff cos it ain't ur game so, subscribe, play the game and stfu
Ain't simplistic bootiful
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Xipheas
Evolving Strategies
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Posted - 2008.12.21 02:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ephemeron But for some odd reason, they went the extra step to make sure that people didn't undock with them.
Because you can use them from anywhere in the galaxy, so theoretically you shouldn't have a real need to move them
ah, well, that just shows yet another extra carebear design feature
Whut? How does that make any sense? I pay my EVE-O subscription in the UK, does that mean I should have to fly back there to log in? Or, mobile roaming shouldn't work? Or I shouldn't be able to get money out of a Spanish ATM because I should have been hardcore enough to bring two months worth of funds in cash in my back pocket? How is that a carebear thing?
There is no need to move a plex, there is no need for people to be able to undock with them, there is no need for this thread. Move along.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.21 02:50:00 -
[27]
CCP have offices in the USA...and China...
both countries have cases of dispute against the EULA where the EULA lost...
That aside, PLEX have RL value.... all other items in game do not...
hence CCP have to treat it differently.
lest they risk having "offical (implied via common properties) RMT"... and worst, lawsuits coming down in forms of very annoying paperwork which sucks away moneyz from CCP to CCP legal department.
Rant about how carebear it is you want,
but CCP is a company, and they dont want to acknowleadge RMT. and avoid all positive dirty laws mumbo thats different from country to country.
(this is a reason why some MMO publisher changes from region to region...to deal with local laws...)
hence yeah....care bear..? perhaps...
but it saves CCP alot of potential, company breaking issues.
btw, anyone hear about what happened to the proposal to Tax virtual goods exchanges (though RMT)
I know China now offically tax RMT for games...
but dont the US is thinking about that too?
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Durethia
Black Plague. Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.12.21 02:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Legal system can't be that ridiculous.
You know, in some countries in Europe, it's illegal to deny certain events in history. Regardless of how you feel about history, to say it's illegal to deny what you think is fact is absolutely absurd; logically, the only reason one might make such a thing illegal is if there's significant reason and evidence to believe the contrary. Seriously, there's no more blatant a way to scream "I'm WRONG!" than to make it illegal to argue it.
That's today.
Now, through history, there's many ridiculous things throughout the legal system. In America, look no further than the McCarthy hearings, Salem witch-trials... In many areas of Africa, there are still courts who formally base decisions on mysticism and superstition. Who ever came up with "thought crimes" is a complete crack-pot.
Want to see awe inspiring Mickey Mouse laws? Look at consumer rights laws. Look at the laws governing insurance. Look at health benefits laws. Look at the Intellectual Property laws (speaking of Mickey Mouse mind you...) Come to California and look at the divorce laws... I'm surprised any California judges are still alive they are so ridiculous.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Umbra Synergy
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Posted - 2008.12.21 03:05:00 -
[29]
I just passed a law that made it illegal to spit on tuesdays if the sun is shining
the punishment is very harsh, you will be stripped of all worldly possessions and be forced to listen to S-Club 7 for a week straight
Fallout thinks im cute! I think so anyway |
Cierejai
Caldari BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2008.12.21 03:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Stitcher Why the hell would anyone in their right mind WANT to put that kind of real-life value of money on the line?
Plenty of people would, some because they are dumb, others because they are smart and know what they are doing.
Your typical mothership pilot puts $1000 USD on the line in combat titan pilots can have $10,000 worth of stuff on the line
Faulty logic. PLEX costs real life dollars to put one on the market, nothing else does.
You get it right?
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