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AwiL
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Posted - 2004.03.29 16:51:00 -
[1]
i don't know if its the luck of black omega security or if this is common with everyone but here goes. in all recent engagements with opposing fleets i/we have come to notice the amount of warp core stabs people are running these days. almost any battleship i've/we've come across lately has been running at a minimum of 3 warp core stabs, i believe an arma the other night to have been running 5+ stabs. has anyone else noticed the increase in ships running warp stabs?
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.29 16:59:00 -
[2]
5+ stabs.
-- Stories: #1 --
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Bellon
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Posted - 2004.03.29 17:11:00 -
[3]
Of course ppl are using more warp core stabs now that they are low slots. They can save your life!
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Triniton
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Posted - 2004.03.29 17:39:00 -
[4]
They use them cos its way too easy.. easy to fit, u dont have to activate them and there are no bad sides like with MWD¦s.
Carebear modules will never get nerfed. Plain and simple.
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.03.29 17:42:00 -
[5]
I didn't like it when they got changed to a low slot module, and I still don't like it. Way too easy to fit 2 and be safe in a lot of situations.
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2004.03.29 17:56:00 -
[6]
SA always use loads, we had a warp scrambling strength of 4 on an SA Tempest the other day, when it warped out. --------
FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.03.29 17:58:00 -
[7]
Quote: SA always use loads, we had a warp scrambling strength of 4 on an SA Tempest the other day, when it warped out.
They might have... But then again, we have had CA (C4 if you wish) ships with 3-4 warp disruptors on warp out, so maybe you shouldn't complain or similar.
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crice
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:18:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Quote: SA always use loads, we had a warp scrambling strength of 4 on an SA Tempest the other day, when it warped out.
They might have... But then again, we have had CA (C4 if you wish) ships with 3-4 warp disruptors on warp out, so maybe you shouldn't complain or similar.
Yeo, I use 2 MWD and 6 Warp Cores, I also use Small Hybrid Guns and A-3 launchers on the APOC. What's the problem? Huh?
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Lord Zap
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:28:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: SA always use loads, we had a warp scrambling strength of 4 on an SA Tempest the other day, when it warped out.
They might have... But then again, we have had CA (C4 if you wish) ships with 3-4 warp disruptors on warp out, so maybe you shouldn't complain or similar.
Yeo, I use 2 MWD and 6 Warp Cores, I also use Small Hybrid Guns and A-3 launchers on the APOC. What's the problem? Huh?
Oh that wasnt what I found in your can last time we killed you....
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toaster
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:31:00 -
[10]
An enemy had 3+ WSs in our last fight. ------------------------------------------------
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crice
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Posted - 2004.03.29 19:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: crice on 29/03/2004 19:50:03
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: SA always use loads, we had a warp scrambling strength of 4 on an SA Tempest the other day, when it warped out.
They might have... But then again, we have had CA (C4 if you wish) ships with 3-4 warp disruptors on warp out, so maybe you shouldn't complain or similar.
Yeo, I use 2 MWD and 6 Warp Cores, I also use Small Hybrid Guns and A-3 launchers on the APOC. What's the problem? Huh?
Oh that wasnt what I found in your can last time we killed you....
Lord Zap, you didn't kill me you door knob.
The Sentry guns killed me.. Sssshh. Get the story straight. You should give those mods to Omniwar, Did you even tell them about the 2-425 Scouts Hyrbids and 1-Prototype 425 Hybrid? Hmm Hmm?? I messaged Omni to get them before anyone else. To late.
WTB-2-425 Scouts and 1-Prototype 425 Hybrid.
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MoLeH
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:09:00 -
[12]
TPFM carry 3+ constantly even wehn trying to attack us :(
-------------------------------------- Do you see people in real life whining that their enjoyment was ruined by a shark when they went swimming in dangerous waters? - Viceroy |
AwiL
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:15:00 -
[13]
ok, didn't mean for this to turn into, "they use this many, blah blah blah" but my point is proved i guess. people are using more and more of these things. they def need to have some cap/shield penalties. maybe not as severe as the mwd, but maybe a 10-20% decrease in cap or something like that might be nice
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:19:00 -
[14]
What about just to increase their fitting requirements?
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AwiL
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Posted - 2004.03.29 20:26:00 -
[15]
yeah exactly, cpu/powergrid requirements could be increased. or they could make them ship class specific, such as the mwd's. (ie. 1mn,10mn,100mn) and/ore make more skills requirements.
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.29 21:06:00 -
[16]
Quote: yeah exactly, cpu/powergrid requirements could be increased. or they could make them ship class specific, such as the mwd's. (ie. 1mn,10mn,100mn) and/ore make more skills requirements.
Please not! Every tried to catch a double MWD punisher? Now imagine that one with a warp core stab! -- Stories: #1 --
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.03.29 22:49:00 -
[17]
If somebody wants to fit 5 warp core stabs then let them...they may always get away, but the certainly can't do a whole lot of damage with that kind of setup.
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Nervar
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Posted - 2004.03.29 22:55:00 -
[18]
I think theyr fine as they are. They have saved allot off potential victims from distruction and saved mee from destruction a good number off times. If someone are willing to sacrifise: cap recharge, signal strengt, locktime, armor resistance and so on, thats fine.
Just release the damn Tech2 disruptors and things will level out a bit -------------------------------------------------> What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
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Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.29 23:23:00 -
[19]
Well nowadays when most ppl are flying with bookmarks you dont need any MWD or anything on just fill your low slots with warp stabs and you have your safe traveling gear
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.03.29 23:38:00 -
[20]
With warp core stabs the way they are, I sometimes wonder why i bother undocking to fight people. In the space of 1hr i faced three doms equiped with warp core stabs, and then finally an omen with several mwds... Jokers use em alot, but thats what makes them good pirates.
I think they should make them non stackable like what they did with ecm bursts, using 5 has the same outcome as 1
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Tatsue Nuko
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Posted - 2004.03.30 00:15:00 -
[21]
Quote: I think they should make them non stackable like what they did with ecm bursts, using 5 has the same outcome as 1
...then the same should be done on scramblers - otherwise you can simply remove the stabs, as one BB would scramble several stab-toting BS on it's own.
Look at it this way: if you tank your BS with stabs, you are hard to scramble. But if one enemy EW boat can't do you, they can get more. The stabbed ship can, however, not get such a "gang-bonus".
And as has been said: if someone wants to sacrifice their offensive strength in order to be able to make sure they can flee - that should be a viable tactic. Don't go carebear on it just because you can't counter it with wits.
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azrael211
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Posted - 2004.03.30 07:04:00 -
[22]
This is the case already the more warpcore stabs the less power and dmg mod u can fit there for less dmg.
Pierating is not supposed to be easy and to pin a ship in combat I dont beleive should be easy either there fore if you really want to scramble a ship you loose defensive capability in the mid slots if you want to escape you loose the ability to fit dmg and power mods. Seems a fair trade off.
If a hunter/pierate is setup right in a scorp 6 ws with some backup will scramble all but an apoc.
Podding is better than a 20 jump home |
PropanElgen
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Posted - 2004.03.30 07:50:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Lord Zap, you didn't kill me you door knob.
The Sentry guns killed me.. Sssshh. Get the story straight. You should give those mods to Omniwar, Did you even tell them about the 2-425 Scouts Hyrbids and 1-Prototype 425 Hybrid? Hmm Hmm?? I messaged Omni to get them before anyone else. To late.
WTB-2-425 Scouts and 1-Prototype 425 Hybrid.
Haha, Lord Zap the scavenger I'm sure the others wouldnt be ****ed that he took care of the good loot
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.03.30 08:32:00 -
[24]
If you guys weren't trying to scramble and blow people up, they wouldn't have to fit so many stabs ;-P
Lets take a look at the situation though. If people are having to put 5+ stabs on their ships to maintain their ability to warp out, then it is obvious that something is wrong. Warp stabs are too weak.
Think about it. It takes 5+? well the power on them obviously needs to be increased, especially when multiple ships can scramble a single ship.
Thats not what you guys want to hear though, you want even more helpless targets. So fine, make it so they can't be stacked...and nerf the hell outta scramblers, also making scramblers no stack.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte |
Kinnison
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Posted - 2004.03.30 08:59:00 -
[25]
Yet another pirate whinging that he can't kill easily enough. Warp stabs are for people who a) want to be able to get away if the fight goes against them or b) don't want to fight at all, just get on with whatever else they were doing. If you don't like them, then don't pirate!
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.03.30 09:14:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Lets take a look at the situation though. If people are having to put 5+ stabs on their ships to maintain their ability to warp out, then it is obvious that something is wrong. Warp stabs are too weak.
Think about it. It takes 5+? well the power on them obviously needs to be increased, especially when multiple ships can scramble a single ship.
Quote:
Thats not what you guys want to hear though, you want even more helpless targets. So fine, make it so they can't be stacked...and nerf the hell outta scramblers, also making scramblers no stack.
Try and listen to yourself. If you are so scared of getting killed stay in empire or travel in a group. Insta-bookmarks, dual MWD and loads of warpstab is the way people generally travel. You see nothing wrong with this picture?
Sure we got mobile warp disruptors, but they only pull you out of warp, they don't prevent you from MWD'ing away and jumping. I've yet to see a large one either.
If you are not stupid, got your' insta-bm and a travel kit nothing will stop your right now.
It also seem like warp jammers dont stack, we have had a few targest where we placed a lot of warp jammers on the target, but he got away. Now either he had loads of warp stabs or jammers don't stack if they are used from multiple ships. Anyone know this?
What I hate about players like you is that you don't look at the game and ask yourself it something is fair, you look at it and see how it is unfair to you, or at leaest how you feel itis unfair to you.
You want warp stabs with more strenght, I mean, wtf are you smoking. Then people will just fit 5x +2 warp stabs.
The idea is to try and balance the game, not make it cater just to you and how you play the game. I don't want it to be "carebear" slaughter mayhem, but I also don't want it to be carebear heaven where all guns fire soap bubbels and we got rainbow shirts.
Right now it's hard as hell to catch someone. Interceptors help, but if warp jammers from multiple ships don't stack they are sort of useless at intercepting because then having 4 interceptors with 1 jammer each jam a BS will be moot since they dont stack.
Amt I think jammers don't stack if they are from multiple ships will have to find out about this. -------------------------
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Leitari
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Posted - 2004.03.30 09:17:00 -
[27]
what Trin said...
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Bogenhagen
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:03:00 -
[28]
Once EW (I think TomB refered to propulsion jamming in that group also) get reworked...I mean when and if EW gets reworked, then WCS's will need to be changed along with everything else. But if ppl want to sacrifice speed, agility, and whatever else could be gained with the low slots...let them.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:34:00 -
[29]
The only problem I see with warp stabs is that warp scramblers/disruptors don't stack across ship.
That means only one person needs to be a dedicated catcher in order to catch someone. Otherwise it's pointless having one scrambler/disruptor on several ships.
No-one has got away from me yet when I am running my catcher set up... pity it means I'm completely defenceless during that time
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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BuRnEr
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Posted - 2004.03.30 11:51:00 -
[30]
"When activated this unit attempts to compensate for fluctuations and disruptions of the ships warp core. " ok the discription are old but read it anyway.
If i disrupt someone with -1 and he/she got 1 WCS why can that ship ALLWAYS warp ot when it say "attempts to compensate"? should¦t it be some % so it fails to stab the warp core?? (OK TOMB "SOONtm" this)
AND plz make em medium slot since the scrambler/disruptors are.
Ok carebears go a head and flame me
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Bogenhagen
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Posted - 2004.03.30 12:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Bogenhagen on 30/03/2004 12:04:12 Edit: stupid typos...
*Shrugs*
If the EW changes come through, then they will probably be moved back to medium slots, but I'm sure you'll whine then too
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FEvul
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Posted - 2004.03.30 12:11:00 -
[32]
Quote: Carebear modules will never get nerfed. Plain and simple
funny way of putting it and true, very true, when will CCP boost something thats useful for pirates/antipirates ?
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Sparkel
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Posted - 2004.03.30 12:59:00 -
[33]
For the love of god When can you all grow up and stop complaning Carybears and piret grefers? Like if i use 3 to 5 warp stabi what in the HELL and when its any of your f*****g bisnis I usaly try to stay out of battels and if im going some wher and thers a piret blockade i will use the stuff the game has to offer to get me ther save. Pirets do the same thing and the other side as well so what is the problem. All of you that cant deal whit that pepole can run away from you PLZ LEAVE THE GAME or stop complaning. And for what its worth anti pirets dont fight unless they have more number of players over ther opponent same whit the pirets,i have never seen a piret camping a gate alone they always do that if they know they can out number the pepole that are travelling thru so whats rong whit that if we use more than 1 warp stabi. We all have some things on our side, pirets have things that helps them and we have also . I say suck it in and deal whit it or go somthing else!!
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Val Amon
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Posted - 2004.03.30 15:20:00 -
[34]
1. Power Cap relays suck now for shield tanking. 2. Warping out to get back cap and shields is only option. 3. Large fleet battle or running blockades warp core stabilizer is the only option for people who wish to do both. _ _ How many pilots does it take to wire a Flux Capacitor? 3, 1 to wire it and 2 to talk about how the old one was better. |
AwiL
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Posted - 2004.03.30 23:00:00 -
[35]
well, i see where this has gone. lotta things i can say to peoples posts. at work tho, and too tired. all i wanted to point out is the number of warp stabs people are running these days.
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
OmegaTron
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Posted - 2004.03.31 12:37:00 -
[36]
Quote: Of course ppl are using more warp core stabs now that they are low slots. They can save your life!
totally agree... ------------------------------------------------ A Plague is comming.... |
Adriana
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Posted - 2004.04.01 10:48:00 -
[37]
You like PvP. I don't. Warp stabs give me the option to play my game and not yours. Why should you be able to force me into combat if thats not what I want?
There are plenty of players who like PvP, go fight them.
....Oh wait, you don't want to fight them, they might kill your ship and your pod. What you want is to gank miners in belts who aren't set up for combat. Talk about a no risk fight. So now we miners have to not only monitor local, set up safe points, possibly lose quite a bits work as we warp away from you and can't collect our can, we also have to sit there while you blow us up now.
Warp stabs are good, it balances things. You set up to kill, we set up to run.
I guess none of that matters though does it? it's only good for the game it it allows you to hear more pods go squishy.
For the record...I'm FOR PvP in Eve. I think this game NEEDS it for balance because it has no end game currently. The question is, when and how should it occur. It is my belief that it should be consentual. If I'm mining and not set up for it then I shouldn't have to engage in it if I don't want to. I guess I could hire protection, but why should I have to? You PvPers already have the most ways to make money, and it wouldn't guarantee I wouldn't get killed anyway.
You can still jam me, but you have to be set up to counter my counter to you. That means you lose your mid slots, just like I lose my low slots. It's a trade off. So put nothing but scramblers in those mid slots. no hardners, no shield, nothing but scramblers. Then attack that mining ship. He will still die most likely, but if you guess wrong, 10 ogres and a few guns might just make your gank fest a payday for that miner.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte |
Kikapu
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Posted - 2004.04.01 11:22:00 -
[38]
if u wanna prevent people from warping it is very easy. use missiles.
kthxbye. -------------------------------------------------------------- Making a new char picture will not work on the forums. The payment, however, does. |
fras
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Posted - 2004.04.01 15:57:00 -
[39]
What Kikapu said is true, you can be effectively scrambled at 60k by a Raven with staggered missiles, each hit drops your speed 50m/s in a BS it's stupidly overpowered. Warp core stabs are fine as they are imo, if you fit some you are hampering your setup in some way, it's just another rock paper scissors.
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.04.02 10:33:00 -
[40]
Quote: No-one has got away from me yet when I am running my catcher set up... pity it means I'm completely defenceless during that time
This quote says it all. She has no trouble catching people...she is just defenseless while doing it because all her mid slots are gone.
Miners give up offense so they can mount lasers. Pirates give up defense so they can scramble miners.
Miners give up low slots so they can run away.
These set ups are very lop sided. They aren't balanced in any way, and do not reflect and should not reflect a balanced load out. They are specialized set ups with a single purpose. This doesn't make then unbalanced.
Basically, as miner, you have to give up all your high slots so you can effectively mine, AND all your low slots so you can run. So I ask..what balance problem?
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte |
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Razaelle
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Posted - 2004.04.02 10:52:00 -
[41]
For a miner, being warp scrambled = DEATH. Having some Warp Core = A chance to survive and escape (but this doesn't garantee any succes !) With this in mind, it seems obvious when you are a miner that you NEED this warp core in order to survive. So it is evident that most of them will use several warp core only to have a chance of escaping, because warp scramblers are a so terrible weapon. I think the problem is actually that warp scramblers are a "all-or-nothing" device, as all the EW modules. I like to see the EW modules as the equivalent of buffing/debuffing/incapaciting spells in other games. You don't expect spells to be 100% effective all the time. So should be the EW modules. CCP is working on this this way, and I think it is the way to go to solve this problem.
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Thyro
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Posted - 2004.04.02 12:01:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Thyro on 02/04/2004 12:02:47 Sincerely I don't see why all pirates whine about warp core stabilizers, because lets face it there are no counter measures against EW without losing essential mid modules for a simply survival.
Now are you complaining that your play is running away from you? Face it again!... work in groups, if you work alone stop complaining... if you work in a group then stop complaining too, because if your group work correctly you can take any ship that has 5 or more warp cores... however I think that 5 warp cores is an exaggeration of the game reality.
In fact any defense against EW is so pour not only the available modules give so small points to counter measure but also consume lots of cpu and power... if you notice same happens with warp core stabilizers which gives one point against -2 points if the warp scramble is good...
On that way I believe that there is no unbalance and if the unbalance exists then is the counter measures for EW... so stop complaining that your prey escapes you because not only you reveal that you are a dumb pirate that wants to force CCP to change the current balance of modules just for you to get more victims... so play in groups and learn how to play and stop complaining.
BTW its a bit ridiculous that a single BB can warp scramble and jam a BS... if this game was correctly balanced that would require at least 2 or more BBs to warp scramble and jam a BS ... so that also reveals that a BS is no different from a Cruiser... right ... the game is unbalanced but not for pirates side... and unfortunately its the true.
So the message is... work in group... where in RL a gang of wolfs can get bigger prey without big efforts and without the need to recur to posts complaining.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.04.02 12:13:00 -
[43]
Quote: BTW its a bit ridiculous that a single BB can warp scramble and jam a BS... if this game was correctly balanced that would require at least 2 or more BBs to warp scramble and jam a BS ... so that also reveals that a BS is no different from a Cruiser... right ... the game is unbalanced but not for pirates side... and unfortunately its the true.
So the message is... work in group... where in RL a gang of wolfs can get bigger prey without big efforts and without the need to recur to posts complaining.
1. Never heard of FoF cruise missiles and drones? They kill a blackbird pretty quick if you are target jammed. So it's balanced.
2. Warp jamming from multiple ships seems somehow broken as I heard it, so the stacking is unblanced towards the jammer... -- Stories: #1 --
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AwiL
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Posted - 2004.04.04 16:13:00 -
[44]
nice roaring fire we have here...
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
vecdran
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Posted - 2004.04.04 16:26:00 -
[45]
Edited by: vecdran on 04/04/2004 18:08:15 Yeah, it sucks that you guys can't root us to the spot anymore without some effort. I mean heck, all the "carebears' have to adapt to your tactics, but the second we start succeeding, the cries of "NERF NERF" run rampant.
GG Hypocrisy
The Civilized Civire |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.04.04 16:38:00 -
[46]
LOL this thread *****s me up.
Do you realize how many pirate post there are mocking people for being stupid and GREEDY for not running a bunch of stabs.
Seriously i bet I could dig and find a dozen post of " you were stupid and greedy for not using a bunch of stabs so i pwned you~ I r the smartest"
Now we see this post of "gah everyone is using stabs"
irony
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.04.04 16:38:00 -
[47]
I have noticed people use an awful lot of missile bays and turrets in their high slots.
Some even have as many as 8 turrets!
Clearly this is insane, they should nerf the turrets so they have to equip their high slots with other useful modules such as energy transfer arrays, shield transfers, smartbombs and auto targetters!
¼©¼ a history |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.04 18:03:00 -
[48]
hmmm its not realy about miners tho...PvPers use 3+ cores to get away if the **** hits the fan. They aren't sacrificing much (low slots are "upgrades", there isn't anything major to put there except armor tanking) while making you sacrifice your "utility" med slots (you have to loose the hardeners, or jamming...). They still pack a good punch. They still have a decent defense. And if you want to catch them, you don't. My solution is to move the warp cores to med slots, you can keep them passive, doesn't really matter. That way both sides have to sacrifice their utility slots if they want to counter each-other. (For the miners going WHAAAA, put 4 warp cores on ur apoc and armor tank against NPCs...so ur still fine. This change would only hurt PvPers...)
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AwiL
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Posted - 2004.04.04 18:07:00 -
[49]
thx nego, for the first intelligent post on this thread.
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.04.04 18:23:00 -
[50]
Quote: My solution is to move the warp cores to med slots, you can keep them passive, doesn't really matter. That way both sides have to sacrifice their utility slots if they want to counter each-other. (For the miners going WHAAAA, put 4 warp cores on ur apoc and armor tank against NPCs...so ur still fine. This change would only hurt PvPers...)
Count the medslots on Amarr ships.
Then think about why they moved warp core stabilizers to low slots FROM med slots.
¼©¼ a history |
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.04 18:24:00 -
[51]
I say leave them as they are.
If someone fits 5 warp cores then you should fit 6 warp jammers (or 3 -2's).
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.04.04 18:24:00 -
[52]
Quote: thx nego, for the first intelligent post on this thread.
None so far, including mine
¼©¼ a history |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.04 18:25:00 -
[53]
what about amarr ships? they have 3-4 medslots. arma needs another med anyway...3 warp cores is damn good - my scorp has 2...(guess why - it only has 4 slots!!!!111oneone..)
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.04.04 19:26:00 -
[54]
I'm told we have tech2 stabs with strength 2 Nego. Equip one and you are set
Unless you all ready have 2xtech2?
¼©¼ a history |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.05 03:51:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Negotiator on 05/04/2004 05:01:09 when T2 warp cores come out i'll just stop fitting any disruptors, put on 2 MWDs, and ram the target ship - gonna be a better chance stopping it from warping than using 16 warp disruptors...
Edit: spelling and sentense structure correction :D
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LLeBRing
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Posted - 2004.04.05 04:12:00 -
[56]
Quote: when T2 warp cores come out i'll just stop fitting any and put on 2 MWDs so and ram the target ship - gonna be a better chance stopping it from warping than using 16 warp disruptors...
haha, I actually thought about that too lol
Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella |
Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2004.04.05 08:25:00 -
[57]
From what I've read here, it looks pretty balanced, and a fun arms race: - Attackers scramble for 1-2 - Defenders mount 2+ core stabs - Attackers scramble for 2-5 - Defenders mount 3-5+ - Attackers plan on ramming and rockets
We just need to wait to see the next installment. The only people who seem to be complainig are people who are behind in the race! | Join eve-webring.com to promote your site. |
Reah
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Posted - 2004.04.05 11:24:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Reah on 05/04/2004 11:27:35 i dont see why you are supposed to catch someone setup to run when you are in a 'general' all round setup. you never was supposed to, scorps can catch interceptors if setup to do just that, its not that hard. but then if a battleship arives setup for some semi tanking with lots of damage you will most likely catch him also, but what happens? he will probably kill you, or atleast make you run like hell . is this balance? YES! it is balanced imo, why? because your setup wont work against any ship. , you can equip dual webifiers, 3x(or 4?) close range warp jammersand 3-4 sensor boosters, and camp the warp in point from the other gate. in warps some travel equiped battleshipand you will most likely catch him too.
i dont think that if you are alone you should be able to catch another battleship setup to run away from you. get some friends with you and equip 3 warp disruptors each etc and and it would be tecnically impossible to warp away from you ofc if similar amount of enemies setup with a 'combat' setup they will in return kill you etc.
i can understand that some ppl think warp core stabs are overpowered. and i agree they might need some tuning, most likly in fitting requirements or cap/shield penalties. but not the voices saying to not let them stack at all is just silly ppl beliving that 2 warp scramblers is supposed to mean 100% guarantied sucsses(SP?), it aint, and never was supposed to .Warp core stabs have a deafult penalty by the fact that they cost a lo slot atm, that alone is a 'penalty'.
btw warp disruptors work perfectly when used by several ships, that has been proved.. on me
also missiles dont toss your ship around anymore, atleast not cruice missiles(i tested this on a tempest, hitting it from the side with 4 siege launchers and he couldent notice a difference). tbh, my best gues is that ppl think the ship is pushed by missiles because it tends to spind aroudn when it gets hit, but in reality the speed and direction stays exactly the same. but combine the fact that it LOOK like your ship is tossed around anyway with the panic factor when having 5 battleships pounding you and you might belive your ship gets tossed around anyway
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.05 14:11:00 -
[59]
Reah u are missing the point. a) The catcher sacrifices offensive slot. The "prey" sacrifices an upgrade slot, which doesnt impact any of the more popular setups. The catcher is gimped a LOT for trying to catch something. The prey isn't gimped AT ALL by flipping the catcher off and running. The catcher is fked if the "prey" has something even resembling a PvP setup. The prey doesnt give a ****, ever...it just runs if the sh1t hits the fan. Is this balance? No. If u want to run you have to sacrifice your defense/offense capability. b) People keep whining about getting ganked at a gate. Ok. They don't like being killed by many people cuz its "unfair". Ok. But they still want to be able to escape even from a well-prepared lone hunter. Ok? Fk no... I'm not trying to turn EVE into a MMMMOONNNNNNSTERRRR KILLL type of game...But i want to be able to ransom people >.>. If you want a good running setup, in the name of balance, something has to be sacrificed. And its not...Unlike the sacrifice that a hunter makes.
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.04.05 15:18:00 -
[60]
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Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.04.05 15:27:00 -
[61]
There should be a penalty for fitting more than one stabaliser, likewise there should be a penalty for fitting more than one scrambler.. At the moment the game is tipped towards the pirates so much so ive even considered becoming one except i dont think its sporting to attack out of cowardice, id rather attack a cruiser in a frigate and risk loosing to have the satisfaction of a good kill, rather than the isk value..
Death to the Galante |
AwiL
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Posted - 2004.04.05 16:50:00 -
[62]
LIGHTBULB!!!! 1 warp core fitted = 1 warp strength 2 = 1.5 3 = 1.75 4 = 1.875 and so on. not sure how the warp scramblers would be set up for negative wrap strength but something along the lines of a jamming strength of negative 1 to negative 2 but based on a certain skill. higher the skill, higher the chance of jamming. make it a high rank skill so a lvl V would give maybe a 95% chance succession rate.
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
Iseult
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Posted - 2004.04.05 18:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Iseult on 05/04/2004 18:08:48
Geez! At this rate it would take all 8 Apoc low slots to counter one +2 strength warp disrupter on a single frigate!!
You better check that Lightbulb. It's burnt out!
Quote: LIGHTBULB!!!! 1 warp core fitted = 1 warp strength 2 = 1.5 3 = 1.75 4 = 1.875
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Constantina
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Posted - 2004.04.05 18:34:00 -
[64]
well personaly I think that warpcore stabs should have high fitting requrement, like 2000 grid each, this would make it hard to use in pvp for most ships, miners could use it with np so pirets and others hunting them would have to use more the same amount of strenght scrambling them as they need now. This would make people loose more ships in pvp battles and just make it all more fun imho.
one thing that might come out bad with this, is npc hunting setups, but npc could have theyre warpscramble strenght lowerd to 0.5 strenght or somthing like that, so that npc setups would not be as much affected by this.
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.05 19:57:00 -
[65]
Constantina basicly found a gret solution. Higher power, so the warp coring ships don't have enough powergrid to fit a good combat setup. imo best solution so far...
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.04.05 20:16:00 -
[66]
Nah higher power is not even logical... Why would a warpstab need like 1k powergrid and a -1 disruptor only 10? I think it's alright as it is.... the more power solution only leads to specific shipsized webs/scramblers that will make frigates useless again. Or...Maybe more cpu
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.05 22:32:00 -
[67]
ok if u have no idea wtf ur talking about...at least make an effort of giving some reasons why the idea is bad...
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Constantina
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Posted - 2004.04.06 02:47:00 -
[68]
U see Elcoco that it¦s werry easy for people to put many warpcore stabs atm and be effective fighter, they r lowslots itmes and it seems that people use 2+ in every battle, they feel like it¦s np problem to go to battles since it¦s so easy for them to flee, hench allmost risk free, u have to use so many med slots to counter those items most of the time. Insurance money covers much of a ship loss so why not make it easyer to blow ships up, battles should be risky, people should not be able to contribute good firepower and escape easly if things go bad for them. I like it as a low slot item if people want to be escape easly then it should be possible imo, sure fit 2-5 stabs and be safe, but don¦t fit so many stabs and be able to fight allso that¦s just ruins all the fun. If people fight then they want to see people blown up that makes the battle wortwhile.
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TWD
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Posted - 2004.04.06 04:50:00 -
[69]
IMO, warpcore stabilizers are balanced.
you are giving in alot of potential firepower/ defence/ etc
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.04.06 17:49:00 -
[70]
eh?
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.04.06 19:51:00 -
[71]
Quote: ok if u have no idea wtf ur talking about...at least make an effort of giving some reasons why the idea is bad...
Let me make my point more clear then. You say to make warpstabs take more powergrid right? So there will be different versions for each ship... frigate/cruiser/BS sized warpstabs so as to have powereqs proportional to their total powergrid.
In that fashion shouldn't warp scramblers have different types as well that use a certain amount of powergrid each?
Why should a web/scrambler be able to counter a mwd/warpstab with only a tiny fraction of the cap/powergrid used in comparison to a BS sized module?
If CPU reqs for warpstabs are increased they would still be used to run blockades but at least fitting 2-3 of them in battle would seriously hurt your cpu available to fit offensive/defensive modules.
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Constantina
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Posted - 2004.04.07 18:54:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Quote: ok if u have no idea wtf ur talking about...at least make an effort of giving some reasons why the idea is bad...
Let me make my point more clear then. You say to make warpstabs take more powergrid right? So there will be different versions for each ship... frigate/cruiser/BS sized warpstabs so as to have powereqs proportional to their total powergrid.
In that fashion shouldn't warp scramblers have different types as well that use a certain amount of powergrid each?
Why should a web/scrambler be able to counter a mwd/warpstab with only a tiny fraction of the cap/powergrid used in comparison to a BS sized module?
If CPU reqs for warpstabs are increased they would still be used to run blockades but at least fitting 2-3 of them in battle would seriously hurt your cpu available to fit offensive/defensive modules.
U are right about that raising the cpu a lot would make it easyer and make it possible to keep it as a 1 module, not frigate/crusier/bs class modules so I like that Idea
warpscramblers are allso limeted by the fact that they have short range so when ships that have few scramblers can¦t get to theyre prey they have few usless items. You can even easly get atway from beeing scrambled with mwd/ab (might not if your ship is under a heavy fire of course) I would not mind that they workd even on a longer range upto 40km and would stack.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:04:00 -
[73]
Quote: Constantina basicly found a gret solution. Higher power, so the warp coring ships don't have enough powergrid to fit a good combat setup. imo best solution so far...
secondet -------------------------------------------
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.04.08 01:50:00 -
[74]
Quote: Constantina basicly found a gret solution. Higher power, so the warp coring ships don't have enough powergrid to fit a good combat setup. imo best solution so far...
totally agree nego... and for you carebears... heres a story for ya..awhile ago i was hunting miners due to the impossibility of pirating solo now due to lovely insta jumps dual mwd's and max warp core stabs...anyways so i fit my scorp out knowing that hey... miners usually cary a few warp core stabs.... so i fit 5 yes count them 5 warp disruptors on my scorp have a mwd web and shield booster to go with them..anyways so i get into a belt with a tempest and an apoc..and im like hey ok.. tempests have only 6 lows.. so no way in hell would it be able to run i was wrong... it warped like nothing had ever happened...then i move onto the apoc who seemed to be afk running a macro...pop the 5 on him.. guess what.. he wakes up and warps out....meanwhile im out -.2 security status...and time that was spent tracking the miners to the 1 of 18 belts.....anyways if u think that is cool you = carebear...the big fluffy pink 1... a scorp with 5 scramblers SHOULD be able to lock down at least 1 bs.. but noooo.. warp cores are massed on everything.. cant do jack f'ing **** anymore by youself.. even if i had a partner we *might* have been able to get the tempest or apoc.. not both... needing 2 ships to take 1 down that doesnt even have any weapons is uber ***....its NOT RIGHT...there is NO RISK TO MINING ANYMORE or travelling for that matter...
_______________________________________________ Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Nova Ivanova
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Posted - 2004.04.08 02:53:00 -
[75]
What Leitari said..
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.04.08 10:44:00 -
[76]
To be honest I think any possible problem (and I'm not convinced there is one) pales into insignificance when compared with instajump BMs (which certainly need wiping), dual-MWD setups (which probably need a shakeup) and various other 'edgy' techniques currently in widespread use.
The best solution to WCS escapages is a ship that can follow another ship through warp - and there's one coming in the scouting frigates. In the meantime a nerf to WCS would leave ships with almost zero chance of escaping whereas now all you need to stop one in its tracks is a specialist scrambler support ship.
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Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Sphalerite
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Posted - 2004.04.08 11:30:00 -
[77]
I find the number of warp core stabilzers on ships to be constantly overreported. I spend a couple weeks causing trouble behind curse and 4 or 5 times when I escaped from an engagment they'd tell me in local that it was because of my 3-6 stabilizers. I actually had several setups, but none of them had more than 1 stab on.
My favorite time was when I had none on, and 2 megas caught me at a gate, double webbed me, but neither of them warp jammed me. that was the time they said I had 6 on.
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AwiL
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Posted - 2004.04.08 17:34:00 -
[78]
they way warp stabs are now has made it so that people who don't want to fight don't have to. seems fair right? right. but, how much fun is a game with no risk involved, i think this game was based around the idea that if you want to stay safe you can, in >=.5 but in 0.0 anything goes. well anything trys to go but with instas and warp stabs you can fly carefree through 0.0 i mean ****, with the slowest bs in the game the scorp i can strap warp stabs across the low decks and dual mwd and no one would be able to do ****. more risk needs to be put back into the game. concord is way too responsive and pvp only occurs if the party volunteers. ganking only exists when 1. you catch a nub 2. find someone afk or 3. someone left home without the warp stabs. so to conclude, risk needs to be put back into the game.
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
AwiL
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Posted - 2004.04.08 17:38:00 -
[79]
don't know why i said that thing about concord, i was just rambling, feel free to exclude that. oh and furthermore, lets all remember that it is a game. and no matter how much you want to believe you don't really fly these ships, your name isn't carebear420 or the like. please, lets all bring some fun back to the game and stop the mining simulator.
"We gon' bring it to anyone that wants it...You want it? You gon' get it..." |
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