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Sol Gerr
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Posted - 2007.12.11 22:10:00 -
[1]
The changes they have made to the flight time of Torpedo's to 6 sec. creates unfair game play. Level 4 missions and difficult COSMOS missions, are completely impossible now. All the NPC's have tremendous advantage, even using much more inferior weapons, even turrets have a longer range then Torpedos now. This move has effectively rendered topedos obselete.
Please reconsider changing Torp. fligth time to something more realistic. You have effectively changed our torp range from 87km to 16km! Takes me 10minutes just to get in the range of NPCs who are pounding me the entire time. Does that seem REALISTIC? Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills...
I am sure a better solution exsists to even out the Caldari advantage which could be more realistic and fair to all.
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.11 22:30:00 -
[2]
Not being able to adapt and not being able to use the search button seem to go hand in hand.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
Vrenth
Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.11 22:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sol Gerr The changes they have made to the flight time of Torpedo's to 6 sec. creates unfair game play. Level 4 missions and difficult COSMOS missions, are completely impossible now. All the NPC's have tremendous advantage, even using much more inferior weapons, even turrets have a longer range then Torpedos now. This move has effectively rendered topedos obselete.
Please reconsider changing Torp. fligth time to something more realistic. You have effectively changed our torp range from 87km to 16km! Takes me 10minutes just to get in the range of NPCs who are pounding me the entire time. Does that seem REALISTIC? Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills...
I am sure a better solution exsists to even out the Caldari advantage which could be more realistic and fair to all.
Because 10 threads about this wasn't enough. They finally gave caldari a pvp weapon... shut up before they take it away --------------------------------- Let's make CLONE VATS useful! |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.12.11 23:23:00 -
[4]
Interesting. . . my Dominix has no problems with these 'impossible' level 4s.
I assume you're using a Raven here, since it has been the mission ship of choice for some time. The only other ship that makes serious use of Torpedoes is the Typhoon, and I somehow doubt you're using a phoon for missions over a Raven. If you can only get 16km range out of a torpedo Raven, your skills quite frankly need serious work.
Also, love your comparison of 'even turrets have a longer range than Torpedos now'. Rails/Beams/Artillery are SUPPOSED to outrange torpedoes. Torpedoes are the Blasters of missiles now, and they absolutely tear things apart at close range. If you want long range, that's what Cruise Missiles are there for. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Docteur Xentav
Minmatar Varietas Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.11 23:31:00 -
[5]
16k? you must have like caldari battleship 2, and you flight time/velocity skill at 2. Your skills. Train them.
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Gator1
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Posted - 2007.12.12 19:51:00 -
[6]
i have torpedo specialization lvl 4 and battleships lvl 5 and all the rest of the missile skills are to 4 and 5...i lack little in torpedo skills and i agree it has absolutaly ruined running lvl 4 missions in a typhoon ...it takes 4 times as long to complete a mission now because you have to chase down every target ....and yes cruise missles are for long range but yet again i have specialization 4 and the damage they produce sucks ...in my opinion it would benifit the game more to increase the flight range back to where it was ...before the patch ,the only real downfall to torps was their speed and the fact it took so long to reach a target....but atleast you know it would hit them eventualy..and as far as being a close weapon ...i laugh...because the only close target in a mission is the little frigits that the torps dont really hurt anyway ....i need them to take out the battleships 40-60 km out
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 21:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gator1 i have torpedo specialization lvl 4 and battleships lvl 5 and all the rest of the missile skills are to 4 and 5...i lack little in torpedo skills and i agree it has absolutaly ruined running lvl 4 missions in a typhoon ...it takes 4 times as long to complete a mission now because you have to chase down every target ....and yes cruise missles are for long range but yet again i have specialization 4 and the damage they produce sucks ...in my opinion it would benifit the game more to increase the flight range back to where it was ...before the patch ,the only real downfall to torps was their speed and the fact it took so long to reach a target....but atleast you know it would hit them eventualy..and as far as being a close weapon ...i laugh...because the only close target in a mission is the little frigits that the torps dont really hurt anyway ....i need them to take out the battleships 40-60 km out
Why don't you try using blasters.
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Vergil 577
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2007.12.13 08:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Vergil 577 on 13/12/2007 08:12:16
Originally by: Sol Gerr Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills...
I'd like to inform you if you stick a 150mm prototype I gauss gun on let's say... and incursus and mega modal neutron blaster I on a Megathron as long as you're using the same type of charge like iron for both or lead for both the Incursus has superior range and don't complain about this being different about your torps... cause it's like Torp short range damage dealer cruise long range not so damage dealer. Ohh and your T1 frigate doesn't hit for 800 damage unless it's a polaris frigate. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Zekarus
Caldari MAIDS
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Posted - 2007.12.13 08:15:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zekarus on 13/12/2007 08:15:51
Originally by: Vergil 577 Ohh and your T1 frigate doesn't hit for 800 damage unless it's a polaris frigate.
You forgot to mention potential damage of 800 per shot, not per volley.
Now, OP, even with crap skills, it's at least 300 damage per torp, which far outstrips damage potential of any T1 frigates. Now, imagine many, many torpedo launchers. Can the T1 frigate proposed in his argument match that?
GTFO back to /b/. -------- MAIDS. Now with black, frilly uniforms. |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.13 08:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gator1 and yes cruise missles are for long range but yet again i have specialization 4 and the damage they produce sucks ...
Really because the last time I checked cruise had the best DPS of long range BS weapons . . . Oh and I use a Cruise CNR for lv4 missions and have for the last year.
Torps as they are now are just pure win for pvp.
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Gojyu
Ever Flow Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.13 09:03:00 -
[11]
See the problem here is that you're using a short range pvp weapon in pve. You can't run level 4's effectively with blasters, ac's or pulse lasers, you can't run them with torps. Yes, if you've got a fair chunk of sp devoted to torps it's going to hurt, but you've known about the torp nerf with plenty of time to train up a new weapon system to an acceptable level.
Quote:
and yes cruise missles are for long range but yet again i have specialization 4 and the damage they produce sucks ...in my opinion it would benifit the game more to increase the flight range back to where it was ...before the patch ,the only real downfall to torps was their speed and the fact it took so long to reach a targe
I think you mean it would benefit you more. Caldari now have a long range missile system as well as a ship designed for short range bs-combat in the raven. That sounds pretty good for the game for me
Now accepting signature commissions, contact me in-game for pricing |
Voin
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.13 10:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gojyu ... but you've known about the torp nerf with plenty of time to train up a new weapon system to an acceptable level. ...
Think before saying such a thing... Everytime DEV's will deside to thuck up the gameplay by other stupid idea he or I have to learn other skill's and ruin previous we had? You and other, who reccomend T2 BS ship are perfect customer's to CCP, cause you will eat all innovation's they will create in a future...
Those who stand in stupidity idea of Torpedo is a short range weapon, you just show your misknowledge about Torpedo itself... Google will help you to find out what in the world have been Torpedos with range over 100km... Surprise?
And to OP, don't learn Torpedo how some reccomend you, I have as well Torpedo spec lvl 4 and even Javelins not worth to use it's for lvl 4 mission's with many NPC's out of range... T1 torpedo less than ~ 30 km, T2 less than ~ 50...
To those who feel Brave and Proud, Torpedos was nerf - my personal question: Are you sure about your future in EvE, about your weapon, ship, modules and etc? Do you really believe you have a platinum insuranse next nerf will not cause you? Stop dreaming then!
!!!My little friend (be aware)!!!
1. English is not my native language 2. You can have my stuff in a Hell in your next life
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Voin
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.12.13 10:20:00 -
[13]
Forgot to mention, I have no problem to do lvl 4 missions with my Nighthawk, or cruise Raven, or even Cerberus.
!!!My little friend (be aware)!!!
1. English is not my native language 2. You can have my stuff in a Hell in your next life
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Gojyu
Ever Flow Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Voin
Originally by: Gojyu ... but you've known about the torp nerf with plenty of time to train up a new weapon system to an acceptable level. ...
Think before saying such a thing... Everytime DEV's will deside to thuck up the gameplay by other stupid idea he or I have to learn other skill's and ruin previous we had? You and other, who reccomend T2 BS ship are perfect customer's to CCP, cause you will eat all innovation's they will create in a future...
The torpedo change has been known about for a couple of months. If you used a raven like I did, you had plenty of time to cross train an effective replacement, like I did. The game is always going to change, if you are so afraid your character sp will be rendered less effective, might I suggest this probably isn't the game for you? I would hesitate to guess that the reason you have such high torpedo skills might be because they were the most powerful pve weapon in the game? or were you using them in pvp?
Quote:
To those who feel Brave and Proud, Torpedos was nerf - my personal question: Are you sure about your future in EvE, about your weapon, ship, modules and etc? Do you really believe you have a platinum insuranse next nerf will not cause you? Stop dreaming then!
No, I'm not sure every single skill I've trained won't be nerfed to oblivion. I don't particularly care. If I start training up for vagabonds, there's a fair chance they're going to be nerfed before I fly them well. Why? Because they vastly outclass every other hac in the game. The raven was the most powerful pve ship in the game, it needed to be nerfed. Instead, ccp let us have a slight pve nerf (now you use cruise missiles, which do less damage) and softened the blow by handing us a ship that can outrange and outdps a blasterthron. If that's ccp's idea of rendering sp obsolete, sign me up.
Quote: Those who stand in stupidity idea of Torpedo is a short range weapon, you just show your misknowledge about Torpedo itself... Google will help you to find out what in the world have been Torpedos with range over 100km... Surprise?
Real life analogies do not work in eve. I actually took your advice and googled torpedo- found out it means any variety of underwater explosive, especially underwater mines. Mines tend not to move very far. From the real life applied to eve thing- you know that tachyon lasers strike a target before the gun is fired right? Also- just because you go really fast doesn't mean you can move through a planet. Another cursory glance at google revealed a shocking fact! Eve is a game that doesn't follow real life conventions or physics. I know, I was shocked too.
Now accepting signature commissions, contact me in-game for pricing |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:59:00 -
[15]
Cruise missile ravens work just fine, if not better than torp ravens.
Having a proper close range BS missile is pure win. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:02:00 -
[16]
BTW.. NPC Torp Rats need a nerf, since there firing off T1 torps 100km away and hitting..
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.12.13 14:43:00 -
[17]
So, some complained about the blasters being pure pwn in short range and there are no equivalent in missiles, now, there is one, the other people complain.
Use cruises in mission, use another ship, think...
Missions will work with cruises, just you will no more have the DPS of a short range weapon at 80 km as it was before with torps.
Please adapt and don't say 'it's impossible'...
I'm running lvl 4 missions in a deimos, my optimal is 2200m, my DPS are under your torps DPS and, well, it works perfectly well.
As the raven is a ship with bonuses good for every BS sized missiles, there are other available weapons for it. Some ships have less fitting options, are limited to just one bonused type of missiles, I don't hear they complain. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Drogher Forerunner
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Posted - 2007.12.14 18:08:00 -
[18]
I think they should change torps back to exactly how they used to be.
Then i can point and laugh t torp users again and feel all fuzzy inside.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.14 19:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Drogher Forerunner I think they should change torps back to exactly how they used to be.
Then i can point and laugh t torp users again and feel all fuzzy inside.
No, please don't suggest that. That would make me sad. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
d'Arma Edd
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Posted - 2007.12.14 19:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: F90OEX BTW.. NPC Torp Rats need a nerf, since there firing off T1 torps 100km away and hitting..
Already petitioned it, waiting for answer.
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Eka Maladay
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Posted - 2007.12.14 20:52:00 -
[21]
Quote: Does that seem REALISTIC? Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills...
Use cruise missile
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Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.14 20:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sol Gerr The changes they have made to the flight time of Torpedo's to 6 sec. creates unfair game play. Level 4 missions and difficult COSMOS missions, are completely impossible now. All the NPC's have tremendous advantage, even using much more inferior weapons, even turrets have a longer range then Torpedos now. This move has effectively rendered topedos obselete.
Please reconsider changing Torp. fligth time to something more realistic. You have effectively changed our torp range from 87km to 16km! Takes me 10minutes just to get in the range of NPCs who are pounding me the entire time. Does that seem REALISTIC? Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills...
I am sure a better solution exsists to even out the Caldari advantage which could be more realistic and fair to all.
USE....CRUISE....MISSILES......STOP COMPLAINING...
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Eka Maladay
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Posted - 2007.12.14 20:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: d'Arma Edd
Originally by: F90OEX BTW.. NPC Torp Rats need a nerf, since there firing off T1 torps 100km away and hitting..
Already petitioned it, waiting for answer.
They are firing with faction ship though, who knows what bonus those ships have.
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Incantare
Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Incantare on 14/12/2007 21:01:37
Originally by: Drogher Forerunner I think they should change torps back to exactly how they used to be.
Then i can point and laugh t torp users again and feel all fuzzy inside.
I remember many amarr whining about the mkII changes, maybe those should be changed back too.
The torp change is great, the mission runners will get over it.
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Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:13:00 -
[25]
Let's see... Raven at level 4, plus all other range and flight time skills to 4...
T1 torps get ~24KM.
Add two rigs and presto - 30K+
T2 gets you 50+, which is enough for any mission.
My response to the whining is...
FIT A MICROWARPDRIVE. Get to 20-30km of the target and pulp it.
Gheez. 6.98 second reload time without rigs and level 4 skills(me) - just three BCS IIs. 600 damage per missile, give or take. (again, not max skills!)
That's 3600 damage every 7 seconds. Insane is the first thing I said when I saw 5 volleys blow a BS rat away. 35-40 seconds and it was popped. All I had to do was go 500m/sec to overtake it, and any newbie with a t1 MWD can do that, even in the slowest BS.
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Eka Maladay
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Posted - 2007.12.14 22:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Plekto FIT A MICROWARPDRIVE. Get to 20-30km of the target and pulp it.
now that is jsut unrealistic. missioner can't use MWD
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.14 23:20:00 -
[27]
Quote: Does that seem REALISTIC? Even T1 frigates can now outrange Battleships using advanced torpedo skills...
Rockets outrange battleship sized neutron blasters, and light missiles have like 5 times the range, Nerf rockets and light missiles!
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Peter Germain
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:47:00 -
[28]
I can agree and disagree with this, Torpedoes were a prime weapon for me ratting in 0.0. They dished out alot of damage went a decent distance and were not too skill heavy. Though I think that the recent "shaping" down of torpedoes is not good. I also think that its not a bad thing either. A general increase in their flight time should be reintroduced, but make it a medium increase. There has to be some sort of medium ground that both parties for and against can find. Then all we need to do is wait for the Dev's to come to a decision. All in all 6 seconds is far to short. Realistically missle's as big as torpedoes don't run out of juice at that range. A decent increase in flight time would help, but putting it back to the way it was isnt the answer. Find a happy medium is the best i can say.
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Spurty
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: F90OEX BTW.. NPC Torp Rats need a nerf, since there firing off T1 torps 100km away and hitting..
Now here at last is some form of 'realistic' request.
NPCs should be able to hit at the distance of a player with faction gear.
If they can hit at this range, they sure had better drop the siege launchers that are doing this. Otherwise, its clearly an omission by ccp to balance them -- Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other "Does this taste funny to you?" |
Spurty
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:05:00 -
[30]
meh, I rat with cruises these days.
whack 500 FOF in for those frisky people that like to jump into my system and sit under 30km from me with their warp scramblers and ECM can be hit even if they have their mwd running (neut over heated will tend to nerf your speed tank)
Good luck anyone that sells torps these day. And, finally a reason to never ever see a Raven at a POS take down (Good luck surviving at 50km from a death star) -- Two cannibals eating a clown. One says to the other "Does this taste funny to you?" |
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