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Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2012.01.02 14:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rolled Tungsten Plates (meta 4) have lower CPU and PG reqs, less mass, lower skill reqs - and are more available and cheaper (thanks to the increased drop rate from NPC wrecks) - than the equivalent T2 plates. So, why even bother having T2 plates in the game?
Oh, I guess you do get an additional 3 armor HP with the T2 plates... wow... gee whiz.... (yeah, a bit of sarcasm here)
How about that long overdue buff to T2 plates? |
Bruce Kemp
UK Freedom Fighters
1
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Posted - 2012.01.02 14:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 for a buff to tec2 plates. |
Shukuzen Kiraa
0uter Ring Excavations Outer Ring Excavations Syndicate
19
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Posted - 2012.01.02 14:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bruce Kemp wrote:+1 for a buff to tec2 plates.
This^ |
Firestorm Delta
Wiki Industrialists Wiki Conglomerates
6
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Posted - 2012.01.02 14:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Rolled Tungsten Plates (meta 4) have lower CPU and PG reqs, less mass, lower skill reqs - and are more available and cheaper (thanks to the increased drop rate from NPC wrecks) - than the equivalent T2 plates. So, why even bother having T2 plates in the game?
Oh, I guess you do get an additional 3 armor HP with the T2 plates... wow... gee whiz.... (yeah, a bit of sarcasm here)
How about that long overdue buff to T2 plates?
Tps are the same... the Meta lvl 4 PWNGE painter is better then the t2 in just about every way. |
Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Ushra'Khan
19
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Posted - 2012.01.02 15:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
While we are at it... ECM is in the same boat... ECM is just not that effective...
Need to restore falcon and buff t2 mods to make up for it.
-DT |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.01.02 15:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Make meta plates more rare is also a solution but it'ld be nice if all T2 would be plain better (except for fitting and/or cap use)
While you're at it, introduce 3200mm and 6400mm plates. |
Vixorz
Cabronazos
0
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Posted - 2012.01.02 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:How about that long overdue buff to T2 plates? +1
Chuck Norris would approve this if he were part of CCP. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
611
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Posted - 2012.01.02 16:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Buff faction guns too. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2537
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Posted - 2012.01.02 16:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Clearly the answer here is a hull upgrades specialisation skill that gives some specific bonus when using T2 plates. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
288
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Posted - 2012.01.02 18:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Clearly the answer here is a hull upgrades specialisation skill that gives some specific bonus when using T2 plates.
Now this I can approve of. Reduced mass addition? Of course it would have to be minimum 7.5% per level to beat RRT at 5, but whatever. |
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Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
100
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Posted - 2012.01.02 18:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Malcanis wrote:Clearly the answer here is a hull upgrades specialisation skill that gives some specific bonus when using T2 plates. Now this I can approve of. Reduced mass addition? Of course it would have to be minimum 7.5% per level to beat RRT at 5, but whatever.
Now that's actually a rather good idea. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
33
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Posted - 2012.01.02 18:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Firestorm Delta wrote:
Tps are the same... the Meta lvl 4 PWNGE painter is better then the t2 in just about every way.
Last I checked, they are easier to fit and that's all.
rolled tungsten plates are easier to fit and have less added mass. Same armor.
So, tech 2 are WORSE in every way.
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Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
37
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Posted - 2012.01.02 19:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Clearly the answer here is a hull upgrades specialisation skill that gives some specific bonus when using T2 plates.
Great idea!
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Tash'k Omar
Apple Construction Inc Northern Associates.
4
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Posted - 2012.01.02 20:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Death Toll007 wrote:While we are at it... ECM is in the same boat... ECM is just not that effective... Need to restore falcon and buff t2 mods to make up for it. -DT
Not the same. Meta 4s cost significantly more.
For armor plates, there is literally 0 reason to use T2 over meta 4.
EDIT: Hit the wrong quote or something lol. I thought I was quoting TPs.
ECM is similar, TPs are fine as is imo. T2 ECM modules need a buff (and I know 90% of people here will despise me for saying that). |
SpaceSquirrels
249
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Posted - 2012.01.03 00:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hmm I like the idea of a skill, or a bonus on a ship that reduces armor plate penalties... prot maybe? |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
73
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Posted - 2012.01.03 00:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reality check guys. There's uck fall chance of making T2 armour plates have more armour than their metalevel equivalents because it would just make armour buffer fits that much more ridiculous than they already can be (eg, 750K EHP Proteus or Legion is already dumb enough).
I would say the only hope you've got is a reduced mass or velocity penalty from T2 plates. Which would make buffer armour ships more maneuverable and stop all the mongfaces whining constantly about "bawww winmatar are too OP" and crap like that. Basically, if your T2 plate lets you go a smidge faster than fitting T1, people will go wild over them for ships like the Deimos, Harby, etc. Plus, bonus of bonuses, this wouldn't unbalance the game as much as making ships even more tougher.
It is clear CCP is concerned with making their module stats at least make sense (eg; the rebalancing of faction and T2 probe launhers, gang links, etc). So it is an anomaly that a lot of T2 modules actually suck compared to the meta-4 variants. There's no sensible reason for this aside from CCP not having the time or carefactor to fix these anomalies. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
126
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Posted - 2012.01.03 01:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote: So it is an anomaly that a lot of T2 modules actually suck compared to the meta-4 variants. There's no sensible reason for this aside from CCP not having the time or carefactor to fix these anomalies.
Actually, in the case of Rolled Tungsten plates vs. T2 plates, the situation was somewhat "sensible" until CCP randomly decided to massively increase the drop rate of the meta-4 items from NPC wrecks. Prior to this change, Rolled Tungsten plates were a low supply / high demand item, and the prices were correspondingly much higher than the T2 plates.
But, even at higher prices, Rolled Tungsten plates are still more popular than T2 plates, due to their across-the-board superiority. So, rather than rollback the meta-4 drop rates, I think everyone would prefer to see some sort of a buff to T2 plates.
Right, folks? |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
27
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Posted - 2012.01.03 03:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tash'k Omar wrote:[quote=Death Toll007]ECM is similar, TPs are fine as is imo. T2 ECM modules need a buff (and I know 90% of people here will despise me for saying that).
thye'd have to be open minded to see why. Main thing about named gear to make t2 gear even better to increase sales a good idea is it would make people pay more for thier jam rides.
For me, good named ecm mods drop often from rats. Throw in some rt plate drops, named prop mod and if you mix your pve and pvp just right and the loot table gods like you, half if not more of a jam ship fit is "free" mod wise. Which is real funky with the ecm mods, a scorp can be like 6 of them easy. talking full rainbow and 2 mutli's as a catch all. "Free" mods in that you didn't pay for em, less cap need and easier fitting...win win win for the person who takes the few extra seconds to hit every rat wreck.
Better t2 to make them worth buying and when you kill a jammer, you'd actually have them lose money in the jam mods. As is now, hell if I stil pvp'd and I died I got full sets of named rainbow from loot drops I can't be bothered to sell at hubs since I don't wan't to rebuy them when rl schedule lets me get bo back to pvp. Not mssing the isk from sales I ain't making now...sure as hell won't be missing if/when when blown up lol. |
Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
116
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Posted - 2012.01.03 03:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Buff shield extenders to 4k hp while you are at it. |
Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
15
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Posted - 2012.01.03 03:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Rolled Tungsten Plates (meta 4) have lower CPU and PG reqs, less mass, lower skill reqs - and are more available and cheaper (thanks to the increased drop rate from NPC wrecks) - than the equivalent T2 plates. So, why even bother having T2 plates in the game?
Oh, I guess you do get an additional 3 armor HP with the T2 plates... wow... gee whiz.... (yeah, a bit of sarcasm here)
How about that long overdue buff to T2 plates?
Lets throw in all meta levels of plates. The RTPs are so good there is literally no reason to fit any other meta or T2. The lower Tiers that give less armor should have some other redeeming quality. Right now, they dont. The whole lineup needs looking at. |
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I likegirls
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
156
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Posted - 2012.01.03 05:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
The only point of T2 plates is that people can laugh at people that fit them. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
755
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 12:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
No no no no and NOES !!
A lot of meta4 is there for a reason, lower pg/cpu or whatever, thing is that they're rare compared with T2 you can build no matter who and get as many as you want, now I'd prefer T2's to have 0 speed/mass/agility drawbacks In the end the only thing you're going to have by asking that kind of upgrade will probably result in something like hybrids rebalance: projectiles got even more buffs
Faction guns/ammo better than T2? -wth? seriously wth???? The day where faction ammo and guns will require more training time than T2 I'll agree with you. Until then faction ammo/guns/items are already way overpowered for IG tools not requiring the same training time than T2 and offering equivalent performances.
Everything requiring long time investment in skills should bring proportional rewards. If you guys don't want to train skills then ask nex store to open and sell stuff for cash... |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
755
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 12:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
I likegirls wrote:The only point of T2 plates is that people can laugh at people that fit them.
I have lols irl only because I just can't figure how is it even possible that someone having this kind of idea really exist in RL:
Meta stuff requiring less to almost nothing has skills better than T2 (Training is supposed to give you access to better stuff)
T1 ships (pirate) relegating T2 stuff to crap (this single point is really a joke, I don't know what the guys smokes or puts in his veins but it's strong for sure)
Faction items/ammo requiring low to little SP with performances above T2 stuff (once again SPvsReward lol )
T2 mining barges/exhumer just strong enough to tank a single frig (must not be a faction frig)
High sec being less safe than Null sec
Some friend of mine tried the game and asked me when it's the next step in game and raping female toons in stations will give KM's or other rewards....
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Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
61
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Posted - 2012.01.03 14:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well, then make T2 better and make it require Armor upgrades V, or somesuch. That solves your issue Tanya. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2544
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 14:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:I likegirls wrote:The only point of T2 plates is that people can laugh at people that fit them. I have lols irl only because I just can't figure how is it even possible that someone having this kind of idea really exist in RL: Meta stuff requiring less to almost nothing has skills better than T2 (Training is supposed to give you access to better stuff) T1 ships (pirate) relegating T2 stuff to crap (this single point is really a joke, I don't know what the guys smokes or puts in his veins but it's strong for sure) Faction items/ammo requiring low to little SP with performances above T2 stuff (once again SPvsReward lol ) T2 mining barges/exhumer just strong enough to tank a single frig (must not be a faction frig) High sec being less safe than Null sec Some friend of mine tried the game and asked me when it's the next step in game and raping female toons in stations will give KM's or other rewards....
Luckily for us, pretty much everything you're worried about is fallacious or mythical.
Starting with High-sec being "less safe" than Null, how do you explain 0.0, with about 1/5th of the population of hi-sec, having 3.5x as many ship losses? A crude calculation indicates that 0.0 is about 15 times more dangerous than hi-sec.
Second, T2 ammo outperforms faction ammo in it's area of specialisation. Long range T2 ammo greatly outranges faction. High damage T2 ammo outdamages faction.
Third, T2 ships are in no way obseleted by faction ships. Faction ships are greatly boosted T1 ships. T2 ships are specialist ships with unique abilities. Which faction ship obseletes the Arazu? The Sin? The Cheetah? The Harpy? And so on.
You seem to be under the incorrect assumption that T2 "must" be the best just because it requires higher skills, or because some T2 items are better than their meta 4 equivalents in some ways. That's not supported by the evidence, the lore or the devs. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
I likegirls
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
157
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 18:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Luckily for us, pretty much everything you're worried about is fallacious or mythical.
Starting with High-sec being "less safe" than Null, how do you explain 0.0, with about 1/5th of the population of hi-sec, having 3.5x as many ship losses? A crude calculation indicates that 0.0 is about 15 times more dangerous than hi-sec.
Second, T2 ammo outperforms faction ammo in it's area of specialisation. Long range T2 ammo greatly outranges faction. High damage T2 ammo outdamages faction.
Third, T2 ships are in no way obseleted by faction ships. Faction ships are greatly boosted T1 ships. T2 ships are specialist ships with unique abilities. Which faction ship obseletes the Arazu? The Sin? The Cheetah? The Harpy? And so on.
You seem to be under the incorrect assumption that T2 "must" be the best just because it requires higher skills, or because some T2 items are better than their meta 4 equivalents in some ways. That's not supported by the evidence, the lore or the devs.
High sec has suicide ganking, war dec, griefers blah blah blah. People use neutral alts for scouting, tackling, RR... Null sec has lots of people that want to pvp which is a lot of those deaths, but for people that carebear in 0.0 they can get away with using expensive ships, and rarely lose them unless they fall asleep or ignore neutrals in local. Therefore it is pretty easy to die in high sec not expecting it, and it is difficult to die in null sec unless you are willing to die and getting yourself into fleet battles or being a noob.
T2 long range ammo might be able to shoot far, but the track penalties are pretty bad.
Pirate ships out class the t2 hull with a similar purpose. example: cynabal v vagabond, all pirate battleships vs mauraders for blitzing missions or incursions. pirate frigs vs interceptors or assault ships.
"Lore of the devs" what the F*** are you on? It makes perfect sense for t2 stuff to out perform meta 4, but with meta 4 being a little bit easier to fit. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2545
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 19:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
I likegirls wrote:
"Lore of the devs" what the F*** are you on?
I said "or", not "of".
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
To mare
Advanced Technology
15
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
actually i dont know why you even care, you have the meta4 it's a good item it's cheap and largely available just use that and forget about the T2 or are you a owner of a T2 BP? CCP is not gonna boost plates in any way, buffer tanks are already good enough, too good that they killed active tanking in every way except for 1v1 and knowing CCP (and their crazy thinking) and demanding for T2 plates to be better than meta 4 you will most likely get a nerf to meta 4 than a buff to T2.
ps: lol at the skill for the T2 plates, if CCP would ever do this the day after you will see the forum fill up with post "add a specific skill to this" "add a specific skill to that". |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2549
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Posted - 2012.01.04 10:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
I sometimes forget that sarcasm doesn't translate to text very well. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
97
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Posted - 2012.01.04 11:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
1600mm Rolled Tungsten is better than or equal to 1600mm T2 in every way, even price (at least according to my current Jita market data). |
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