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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:03:00 -
[1]
Now, for the past days Eefrit has done his best/worst to question my honesty and integrity, and I've kept quiet, mostly to see how deep he could dig his hole.
The behavier from some (too many..) people on this forum is disgracefull to say the least. Shame on you. I'm sure you know who you are. It's like watching a pack of rabid hyenas going after a the last piece of meat, leaving their brains behind.
You guys need to grow up, and not launch a crusade each time you see a chance to do so - You come of as looking quite silly.
I migth as well get that bit over with, as I just *know* you will do it all over again. Well, have at it. At least I wont have to repeat myself now
To the core of this thread : Is Eefrit a liar, blackmailer, briber and a general cheat?
I can answer that with a yes on all counts.
Eefrit has in another post given Ray permission to disclose all logs he has of conversations with Eefrit. Without that permission, you would *not* see the following. Just to make that clear!
The following is from a time before last weekend - ie the weekend April 28th/29th 2007
Quote:
01 <Eefrit> o/ 02 <RayMc|BIG> eveing 03 <Eefrit> evening 04 <Eefrit> I take it TS has not given a response? 05 <RayMc|BIG> shareholder report is due next week, think he might be waiting for that 06 <Eefrit> has he formally given an answer 07 (*3*)<Eefrit> basically if he does not answer I will take it to the forums this weekend 08 <RayMc|BIG> answer to what? 09 <Eefrit> I have given plenty of notice as it is 10 <Eefrit> If he is going to fill all the shareholders in on EVERYTHING that has been going on 11 <RayMc|BIG> i'll check with him tonight if he is going to put it into the next report 12 <Eefrit> not in the next report 13 <Eefrit> this weekend 14 (*2*)<Eefrit>he has had a year to do it in reports and tbh I'm not waiting for another report that is weeks late 15 (*4*)<Eefrit> this is directly related to my offer to BMBE as a way out 16 <Eefrit> i.e. TS can use th payout Isk to pay back Isk from losses due to not keeping to the business plan 17 <RayMc|BIG> how was it not keeping to the business plan? 18 <Eefrit> the business plan called for them to sell BPO off from loans that are defaulted on 19 <Eefrit> had they done that the losses would be negligible 20 <Eefrit> right now they are worthless so the losses are almost total 21 <RayMc|BIG> the BPO were worthless when they were defaulted. selling them on then would've left us in the same position we are now. 22 <Eefrit> no they were not 23 (*1*)<Eefrit> a year ago they were being sold for 10-15 Bill Isk each 24 <Eefrit> even up to 9 months ago 25 <Eefrit> check the forums 26 <Eefrit> right now they are worth maybe 1 bill Isk each 27 <Eefrit> either way TS had no right to make that call without informing ALL shareholders 28 <Eefrit> the fact that he is still not happy to inform all investors is a clear indicatin that he KNOWS that is outside the business plan 29 <RayMc|BIG> what would have been within the business plan then? 30 <Eefrit> sell them off and declare any losses / profits 31 <Eefrit> that is clearly the resolution given 32 <Eefrit> there has now been losses in income for shareholders directly because this was not kept 33 <Eefrit> and huge capital losses 34 <Eefrit> cheers Ray 35 <Eefrit> dinner :) 36 <Eefrit> o/
BIG Lottery
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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:04:00 -
[2]
Claim #1 : Eefrit is a liar
Eefrit has *numerous* times claimed he had no idea about the defaulted 30B loan and the 2 skiff BPO's as collateral.
Really... Where to start...
Have a look at line 23 (*1*) From that it's obvious that he knows it's more than one print, and also which prints it is, how else would he know their worth?
Have a look at line 14 (*2*) He clearly demonstrates knowledge of when the default of the loan happened - Contracdictory to his forum claims that he has a theory, and some possibel explanations that some fishy must have happened around december. He claims to not know precisely what happened, but he has several theories, each ofc painting me in a bad light
Eefrit knew all along very well what the score was - In detail.
So - Eefrit is a liar
Claim #2 : Eefrit is blackmailer
Have a look at line 07 (*2*)
It's the good old : Do as I say, or else. And if you do as I say, then nothing will happen
Dear Eefrit claims inforum posts to be oooh so upset about this whole affair, and is on his rightous crusade - How could he *possible* not tell the public about this terrible thing he has unearthed.
Yet, he offers to do nothing if the BMBE does his bidding. So much for that moral high ground he has bee claiming....
Claim #3 : Eefrit is a briber (not sure that is a word in fact... Someone who bribes people - a briber?)
Have a look at line 15 (*3*)
The offer refered to, is the 20B golden handshake he tries to lure me with.
"a way out" he says. Basically offering me 20B if I will just do as he wants.
Newsflash Eefrit : Not even for all the ISK in EVE would I ever do such a thing. But reading this I'm sure you would...
Claim #4 : Eefrit is a general cheat
He has cheated you all in this charade of his.
Claiming he doesnt know excactly what is wrong with the BMBE, but his unselfish self has at least determined that *something* is wrong, and he offers up theories for what that could be.
*He knew all along*!!!
It was all a ploy to try and discredit me personal and the BMBE, when neither his bribe nor his blackmail worked.
If after you've read the above log snippet, you still trust to do business with Eefrit, a proven liar, blackmailer, briber and cheat - Good luck to you. You'll need it. BIG Lottery
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:22:00 -
[3]
Edited by: mechtech on 07/05/2007 00:19:29 OK, I'm new to this situation, and I see it as a huge misunderstanding.
Eefrit thought that you were keeping the BPOs used as collateral, instead of selling them, which the original plan had you do.
You knew that they were only worth about a bil each, and that you weren't really skimming anything at all.
Now, he made his claim on false assumptions, and all that needs to be done is for you 2 talk it out, all both of you want is the best for the shareholders, so there is no reason for this to be going on.
Torn, you should have sold the BPOs though, it was in the business plan, and none of this would have happened if you didn't flip them when the loans defaulted.
Regardless, you 2 should kill both of the threads, and issue a joint statement that actually clears this up, because as it stands, both of your reputations will be damaged.
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Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:27:00 -
[4]
So.. why didnt you tell your shareholders the loan was defaulted.
Your lack of telling your shareholders that void's your argument as to the integrity of BMBE.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/05/2007 00:36:31 How is Eefrit a cheat?
You are the one who did not disclose the default to shareholders.
In fact, you outright LIED about your net worth:
Originally by: Firid Soulbane
Quote: Total BMBE capital now : 102.788B ISK
Taken from BMBE report #6
How can you report that the total capital is 102.788b isk when its not?
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:44:00 -
[6]
Could you two take that to the other thread (BMBE version 2) - And I'll be happy to answer questions relating to the BMBE.
In fact I've already answered that bit.
How none of you comment on Eefrit's actions as shown above is... Well... You seem pretty outraged when you think I've done something wrong.
Double standards I guess.
Each to his.
BIG Lottery
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/05/2007 00:36:31 How is Eefrit a cheat?
You are the one who did not disclose the default to shareholders.
Originally by: Eefrit
There are only 4 options that I can see to explain this discrepancy:
a) TornSoul is skimming off the top b) Tornsoul is for some reason turning down loans which is loosing Isk for shareholders c) TornSoul has done something else with the Isk. On this point I find it strange that the total Isk available for loans is never reported on.
Originally by: Eefrit
Is TornSoul stealing from BMBE?
Quote: 21 <RayMc|BIG> the BPO were worthless when they were defaulted. selling them on then would've left us in the same position we are now. 22 <Eefrit> no they were not 23 (*1*)<Eefrit> a year ago they were being sold for 10-15 Bill Isk each
That should asnwer your question.
He made a thread where he posed a question he already knew the answer to in order to insinuate that Tornsoul was stealing from the BMBE.
Not only did he do that he tried to bribe the BMBE into selling to him and when that failed tried to extort them by telling them he would releaes the information he repeatedly claimed he did not know (just see the other thread to see how many times he lied in a row about not knowing).
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TornSoul
How none of you comment on Eefrit's actions as shown above is... Well... You seem pretty outraged when you think I've done something wrong.
Double standards I guess.
Each to his.
Eefrit isn't holding 100bil of the public's money. You are.
As far as I'm concerned, Eefrit did what was needed to be done in order to expose the truth of the matter. He has done nothing but to help me in this situation, as now I have an idea of what's been going on in the last year.
Calling him names in this situation strikes me as you being desperate. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Baun
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/05/2007 00:36:31 How is Eefrit a cheat?
You are the one who did not disclose the default to shareholders.
Originally by: Eefrit
There are only 4 options that I can see to explain this discrepancy:
a) TornSoul is skimming off the top b) Tornsoul is for some reason turning down loans which is loosing Isk for shareholders c) TornSoul has done something else with the Isk. On this point I find it strange that the total Isk available for loans is never reported on.
Originally by: Eefrit
Is TornSoul stealing from BMBE?
Quote: 21 <RayMc|BIG> the BPO were worthless when they were defaulted. selling them on then would've left us in the same position we are now. 22 <Eefrit> no they were not 23 (*1*)<Eefrit> a year ago they were being sold for 10-15 Bill Isk each
That should asnwer your question.
He made a thread where he posed a question he already knew the answer to in order to insinuate that Tornsoul was stealing from the BMBE.
Not only did he do that he tried to bribe the BMBE into selling to him and when that failed tried to extort them by telling them he would releaes the information he repeatedly claimed he did not know (just see the other thread to see how many times he lied in a row about not knowing).
This coming from the guy that wouldnt give the one peice of information that would have protected bmbe from this whole even starting.
I also like how you never stated the size of the loan (roughly 1/3rd BMBE's value) at that time.
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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Verite Rendition Eefrit isn't holding 100bil of the public's money. You are.
Erm.. Did you completly miss how this all started?
Eefrit wants nothing more than to do just that : Hold 100bill of public money (minus a 20B ISK bribe to me)
BIG Lottery
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Chris Smith
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:07:00 -
[11]
This is Proton Power's alt, I am to lazy to switch characters atm.
First off I think people should have given TS time to come up with answers to E's concerns.
Second off I think if E did know the truth as it seems, he was in the wrong, I personally didnt get involved in this much so wont say more more on that.
Third off and most importantly, the biggest asset any IPO are these forums. Personally if your going to pay monthly divies you should be posting every other week with updates and whats going on. This I put on you TS, your a smart person and know this I am sure. If you had given more answers previously this would have probably never came up, not saying its right or wrong, but It could have been prevented.
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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Marodi Julita
This coming from the guy that wouldnt give the one peice of information that would have protected bmbe from this whole even starting.
Protected BMBE?? From what?
Eefrit tried to blackmail me into handing over the BMBE ISK to him.
Why did that not work? Because I was not afraid of this info becomming public. Would I have prefered it done in a civil manner - Absolutly. (note the difference between "afraid" and "prefered" please)
But thats not how blackmailers work.
BIG Lottery
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Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Marodi Julita
This coming from the guy that wouldnt give the one peice of information that would have protected bmbe from this whole even starting.
Protected BMBE?? From what?
Eefrit tried to blackmail me into handing over the BMBE ISK to him.
Why did that not work? Because I was not afraid of this info becomming public. Would I have prefered it done in a civil manner - Absolutly. (note the difference between "afraid" and "prefered" please)
But thats not how blackmailers work.
Was refering to Baun and how he let 4 pages of forum *****ing without giving up the info that you had a defaulted loan a while back. If he had said that in the begining this probably wouldn't be at the level it is now.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Verite Rendition Eefrit isn't holding 100bil of the public's money. You are.
Erm.. Did you completly miss how this all started?
Eefrit wants nothing more than to do just that : Hold 100bill of public money (minus a 20B ISK bribe to me)
What may happen is irrelevant compared to what did happen. If we get to the point where there's a serious offer on the table of Eefrit buying BMBE (which there has yet to be), then it will be a proper time to judge his character. In the mean time you're still the one holding the money. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Simbri
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:22:00 -
[15]
last week there was local elections in the UK. As an adult i had the option to vote. I chose to not cast a vote. Theres a number of reasons as to why i didnt, the main one being that your trying to pick the best of a bad bunch.
In this same arguement im glad i didnt invest in BMBE and that i have no intention of investing in the Eefrit based option, because by investing in either id be putting my trust into the better of two bad ones.
The actions TS admitted to, and the actions Eefrit commited/exposed, shows that ppl are some what foolish to trust either of you with vast amount of money. TS seems to play a lazy unmotivated gameplan with late shareholder reports and lying about situations which any entity would consider vitally serious when 30% of the entities value is at stake. TS decided it (for whatever reason) best not to inform shareholders.
Eefit was stupid to lie about not knowing about it, yet trying to take the morale high ground against BMBE when he was doing little more than telling BMBE to rectify an issue or have it rectified for them.
How on earth anyone continues to trust either of these people with their isk is beyond belief. How one questions the integrity and honesty of another whilst commiting a similar lack of integrity and honestly reminds me of nothing more than bickering politicians trying to get one up on the other
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Simbri TS decided it (for whatever reason) best not to inform shareholders.
And thus the Big Lie that was told is perpetuated. Just hard to tell if the speaker of un-knowledge is one of the sheep or shepherds of this flock of tripe.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Verite Rendition What may happen is irrelevant compared to what did happen. If we get to the point where there's a serious offer on the table of Eefrit buying BMBE (which there has yet to be), then it will be a proper time to judge his character. In the mean time you're still the one holding the money.
You cant judge his character now? Sorry.. I dont follow that.
That log above with Eefrit showing all kinds of morally questionable actions did happen.
How can you turn a blind eye to that?
BIG Lottery
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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:44:00 -
[18]
Simbri and otherwise sober post - a rare sight around here.
But I have to take objection to the following
Originally by: Simbri TS decided it (for whatever reason) best not to inform shareholders.
It was not a secret. If it was, how could so many ppl know about it? But yes, It was a grave mistake not doing more - Please see my shareholder post for the full explanation.
Originally by: Simbri
Eefit was stupid to lie about not knowing about it, yet trying to take the morale high ground against BMBE when he was doing little more than telling BMBE to rectify an issue or have it rectified for them.
He did more than just lie...
And he couldnt give a toss if BMBE "rectified an issue" or not. That was *never* his agenda. Look at the log. He offers to keep quiet, if I hand him back the bribe he is offering.
Again - Eefrit didnt care one bit if the shareholders where told this or not.
He simply used it as leverage in a failed blackmail attempt (when the bribe didnt take)
BIG Lottery
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:52:00 -
[19]
Okay, your argument is that: 1) Eefrit is a bad person because he is a liar.
YOU lied. BMBE report #6:
Originally by: TornSoul Total BMBE capital now : 102.788B ISK This equals a "value" of 51.394M ISK per share
ergo, you are an equally bad steward of our isk.
2) Eefrit has blackmailed you. He stood to gain NOTHING (directly, work with me here for a second) by revealing this. He was forcing your hand into doing your fiduciary duty, granted, but:
Originally by: "Princeton WebWN" # S: (n) blackmail (extortion of money by threats to divulge discrediting information)
So unless he makes money by doing this, it's not blackmail. Which leads us to:
3) Eefrit has extorted you. This is really the heart of your indignation. As I see it, Eefrit offered to buy out the company at its *TRUE* value, plus give you 20b isk for your trouble. As far as I can tell, that series of actions would COST him money. If this is incorrect, fine, but unless he is DIRECTLY MAKING MONEY from this threat, it would seem he's merely being quite direct with you. Now, if you think he's going to run off with the BMBE isk, fine, but he has a hell of a lot more to lose (EMFI would presumably put his escrowed FIN BPO's in jeopardy in response to any such scam) than you will lose as a result of this.
MY point #1: I repeat my immediate demand that you open up the lottery number selection and assignment process for public scrutiny. Per point #1, you are a liar and cannot be trusted to run the lottery correctly any more without extensive public oversight.
Thank you for your time.
MP
--
TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Lypert
Zemindar Supermacy
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Posted - 2007.05.07 01:59:00 -
[20]
Tornsoul revenge attacks will only make things worse, you have lost credibility by failing to follow your business plan.
Quote: Hauling and recycling of collateral from defaulted loans - To turn it back into ISK for the shareholders.
What you are trying to do now, we all know about. Eerfit has tried to damage your reputation with your shareholders but you are destroying it more with potential shareholders by posting this thread.
Eerfit has lost some of his rep too from his thread.
-------------------------------------------------- Zemindar Supermacy is recruiting |
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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet 2) Eefrit has blackmailed you. He stood to gain NOTHING (directly, work with me here for a second) by revealing this. He was forcing your hand into doing your fiduciary duty, granted, but:
Originally by: "Princeton WebWN" # S: (n) blackmail (extortion of money by threats to divulge discrediting information)
So unless he makes money by doing this, it's not blackmail. Which leads us to:
Eefrit stood to gain the management fee of the BMBE (although reduced, as he would lower it)
So yes : Blackmail - No matter how you dice it.
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
3) Eefrit has extorted you. This is really the heart of your indignation.
I couldnt give a toss if someone tries to extort me or not - I laugh at such people. It simply doesnt work with me.
My indignation is his attempt at discrediting me - *every way possibly*, even with untrues and what not.
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
As I see it, Eefrit offered to buy out the company at its *TRUE* value, plus give you 20b isk for your trouble. As far as I can tell, that series of actions would COST him money.
Eefrit wasnt going to spend as much as one ISK on this. His "offer" was simply for me to hand over the BMBE ISK and business to him - No expense on his part.
He was even willing to spend 20B of shareholder ISK as a bribe to me to agree to such a transaction.
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
MY point #1: I repeat my immediate demand that you open up the lottery number selection and assignment process for public scrutiny. Per point #1, you are a liar and cannot be trusted to run the lottery correctly any more without extensive public oversight.
Thank you for your time.
MP
How about you read the Lottery pages (link in my siggie) It's explained there.
It's rig proof - Both from me and from the contesters. I've even in the past offered up a 1B prize to anyone who could rig it (proof would be to win 3 times in a row or similar)
BIG Lottery
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TornSoul
BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lypert Tornsoul revenge attacks will only make things worse, you have lost credibility by failing to follow your business plan.
Quote: Hauling and recycling of collateral from defaulted loans - To turn it back into ISK for the shareholders.
It's beeing followed - and has never been deviated.
Originally by: Lypert
Eerfit has lost some of his rep too from his thread.
So I loose credibility simply by beeing accused of doing somethign I have not...
While Eefrit, a proven liar, blackmailer, briber and generally behaving unethically loose "some" of his rep...
Oh brother...
BIG Lottery
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Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:11:00 -
[23]
Eefrit did nothing wrong.
In business you lie. You just don't lie to your shareholders.
Eefrit is 100 percent clean.
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:26:00 -
[24]
Since no one is really saying what needs to be said I will, as is often the case.
Originally by: TornSoul Claim #1 : Eefrit is a liar Eefrit has *numerous* times claimed he had no idea about the defaulted 30B loan and the 2 skiff BPO's as collateral. ... Have a look at line 23 (*1*) From that it's obvious that he knows it's more than one print, and also which prints it is, how else would he know their worth?
Have a look at line 14 (*2*) He clearly demonstrates knowledge of when the default of the loan happened - Contracdictory to his forum claims that he has a theory, and some possibel explanations that some fishy must have happened around december. He claims to not know precisely what happened, but he has several theories, each ofc painting me in a bad light
Eefrit knew all along very well what the score was - In detail.
So - Eefrit is a liar
It's really hard to deny you know something, when that something is never defined. You might say I know something, but then again if I haven't the foggiest what you are you talking about, then it doesn't really matter. Context is everything.
So I would say, No, Eefrit is not a liar in that sense. That was just a bunch of round-robin bull**** with Baun. Furthermore it doesn't really matter if Eefrit knew it or not when he made the take over bid. It says a lot more to his business nature that he did know it and acted on it.
Quote:
Claim #2 : Eefrit is blackmailer
Have a look at line 07 (*2*)
It's the good old : Do as I say, or else. And if you do as I say, then nothing will happen
Dear Eefrit claims inforum posts to be oooh so upset about this whole affair, and is on his rightous crusade - How could he *possible* not tell the public about this terrible thing he has unearthed.
Yet, he offers to do nothing if the BMBE does his bidding. So much for that moral high ground he has bee claiming....
I see nowhere where it was offered to do nothing if you agreed. I think the assumption nothing would need to be done because you would come clean like you should. His intent was obviously getting the issue into the open.
Quote:
Claim #3 : Eefrit is a briber (not sure that is a word in fact... Someone who bribes people - a briber?)
Have a look at line 15 (*3*)
The offer refered to, is the 20B golden handshake he tries to lure me with.
"a way out" he says. Basically offering me 20B if I will just do as he wants.
Newsflash Eefrit : Not even for all the ISK in EVE would I ever do such a thing. But reading this I'm sure you would...
I think the irony of that deal would be that 20B would come out of the ISK that was inappropriately accounted for, provided the shareholders and assets were transfered properly and in that order.
Quote:
Claim #4 : Eefrit is a general cheat
He has cheated you all in this charade of his.
Claiming he doesnt know excactly what is wrong with the BMBE, but his unselfish self has at least determined that *something* is wrong, and he offers up theories for what that could be.
*He knew all along*!!!
It was all a ploy to try and discredit me personal and the BMBE, when neither his bribe nor his blackmail worked.
You just added this for sensationalism. The bribery and blackmail were not as you claim. Eefrit made it very obvious his bid was a hostile take over. He obviously had a plan and that plan involved discrediting you. Which worked might I add.
The worst thing you, Tornsoul, did in all of this was not respond. You could have hashed all of this up publicly yourself and Eefrit gave you this option. Instead you were offended by the offer and decided to let him "dig his own hole deeper", when in fact it was really your own grave. Now you get to live with it, and a lot less respect.
Game, Set, Match Eefrit: 1 Tornsoul: 0
I really didn't want to get involved in this, but I just can't stand people being wrong.
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JonasML
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:36:00 -
[25]
Well, back to the mud slinging agian I see. From what I've seen in these posts, Eefrit has attempted to buyout BMBE and/or set up another corp to compete with it. He has also used information that he had in an attempt to nudge the BMBE heads in a direction that favored him. I don't know whether or not info on these BPO was released to the general publc, but it's obvious from other posts that some investors knew about, and agreed with, TS using those BPO to build with in an attempt to recoup the loss. That's just business sense. My question is what is Eefrit's source for all this info he has. I realize that atleast some of it was given to him when he made the offer, but for him to have details about the BPO that are being held as collateral, even ones that were defaulted on, makes me very nervous, and I don't even own stock with you guys. BTW, a bit more communication from you TS would have gone a long way to clearing this up in a timely manner.
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: TornSoul How about you read the Lottery pages (link in my siggie) It's explained there.
It's rig proof - Both from me and from the contesters. I've even in the past offered up a 1B prize to anyone who could rig it (proof would be to win 3 times in a row or similar)
I've read it, both FAQ and rules. Neither one has any way to ensure that you are not choosing the numbers (either modifying the winning number, or modifying the ticket numbers, it doesn't really matter) as you see fit so as to guarantee that an alt wins. If you did this every second, third, or--heck--tenth drawing, it'd be almost-impossible to spot.
I repeat my demand. Furthermore, since you've received prizes from AURORA in the past, I believe this is petitionable, no?
MP
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TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.07 02:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: JonasML BTW, a bit more communication from you TS would have gone a long way to clearing this up in a timely manner.
The fact that a loan had defaulted was made publicly known in a shareholders report. That the loan was secured with two (2) t2 blueprint originals was also disclosed in that report. In that same thread, containing the report, one of the current faces tossing accusations even commented on the "potential" huge values involved. The specific details regarding the loan; Who and how much; was not disclosed. This was a decision well within the scope of BMBE's management to make. The true extent of any losses were not easily identified nor fully realized until further Acts of CCP/Dev totally compounded the situation into a crap sandwich. Acting within the scope of management's discretion, again, a decision was made how best to make lemonade out of a lemon. Of course stating the plain and obvious, again, is not worth the effort. Everyone will keep tossing around the number 30 Billion becuase... it will keep the Big Lie going. To do so you have to keep saying it over and over again. "TS lost 30 Billion, TS lost 30 Billion, ad infinitum, ad nauseum." I qoute: Quote: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it
What is most troubling is who these big lie tellers are emulating. Seems we, the masses, are as moronic now as we were 60 something years ago. Art imitates life. > woohoo<
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shar Tegral stuff
Stop saying nonsense. Just because TS mentioned something about a loan default and shrugged it off does not mean that he told about 30 billion loan default that constituted 30 percent of his capital. And then you go on accusing normally thinking people of spin.
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: JonasML BTW, a bit more communication from you TS would have gone a long way to clearing this up in a timely manner.
The fact that a loan had defaulted was made publicly known in a shareholders report. That the loan was secured with two (2) t2 blueprint originals was also disclosed in that report. In that same thread, containing the report, one of the current faces tossing accusations even commented on the "potential" huge values involved. The specific details regarding the loan; Who and how much; was not disclosed. This was a decision well within the scope of BMBE's management to make. The true extent of any losses were not easily identified nor fully realized until further Acts of CCP/Dev totally compounded the situation into a crap sandwich. Acting within the scope of management's discretion, again, a decision was made how best to make lemonade out of a lemon. Of course stating the plain and obvious, again, is not worth the effort. Everyone will keep tossing around the number 30 Billion becuase... it will keep the Big Lie going. To do so you have to keep saying it over and over again. "TS lost 30 Billion, TS lost 30 Billion, ad infinitum, ad nauseum." I qoute: Quote: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it
What is most troubling is who these big lie tellers are emulating. Seems we, the masses, are as moronic now as we were 60 something years ago. Art imitates life. > woohoo<
Quit trying to rephrase my, and others', anger with regards to this situation. Nobody cares about BMBE losing 30 billion. While I haven't lost anywhere near that much, Proton's gotten scammed out of hundreds of millions in BPO's by r0meo, O'Mara got his freighter ransomed for 500m because he screwed up and clicked the wrong button, and I'm sure others have taken similar losses. It's a game, and it's business, and in both, you occasionally take a loss.
What EVERYONE is upset about is that this was not reported. Indeed, it was the exact OPPOSITE of reported; it was covered up in BMBE report #6 when TS stated the corp value.
Separately, the only reason the actual NUMBER keeps getting mentioned is the fact that this isn't RL, and books are expected to be a bit fuzzy. I said elsewhere in one of these threads that I'd fully accept a public company in Eve reporting that its books are off by 10% or less. But this is almost a third of the company's pre-loss value, nearly half of its remaining value. It's not the equivalent of--to name a specific example of where I have failed similarly but don't find myself at fault--me having 50 t2 railguns sitting somewhere in Empire right now that I still book at 4.25m apiece, despite the fact that they're now cheaper than that in Jita.
MP
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TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rthor Stop saying nonsense. Just because TS mentioned something about a loan default and shrugged it off does not mean that he told about 30 billion loan default that constituted 30 percent of his capital. And then you go on accusing normally thinking people of spin.
Hello, how's the popcorn? Spin has never been my mark in trade... ever. Won't stop you from claiming that though. I respond with the unedited post here. I could say that the decisions that BMBE management made were in " grave error" but that would be taking the words from TornSoul's mouth. I guess the only thing I could spin from this... your comment to me freshens up my day with the love love joy joy feelings you always seem to share with me. Because you asked, and obviously need the attention, the others mean nothing to me and it is you that I love and your children I want to bear.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
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