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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
JitaGodess
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:25:54 -
[61] - Quote
Just wanna add my 2 cents.
Am not for a further nerf to the Excavators, but if it must happen, let me point out..
Reducing the cycle time by 50%, thus increasing the amount of time the drones are traveling between roid and rorq, is a nerf in its self.
Adding a reduced yield is a nerf on top of a nerf.
If you must go along these lines, perhaps consider adding more speed to the Excavators to mitigate this fact.
The numbers thrown around of "300 mil an hour" are completely hypothetical. In most cases, Rorqs need to come out of Icore to move closer to the roids as mining any further out that 20km atm is pointless.
I appreciate you need to consider the mineral market, and that the iskper hour is prob not a factor, more so the statistics on the amount of ore mined, but the eve player base consider activities to be worth doing or not by isk per hour, and if you nerf it too much.. Id say alot of people will give up with rorqs entirely.
Please Evemail me if I win.
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Zedd Dezz
Ascendance Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:26:04 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello again folks. Got another set of changes today for your feedback. ~
[list] Speed up the cycle time of 'Excavator' ore mining drones to 60 seconds, and reduce the yield per cycle to 110 m3 base. This will reduce the idealized yield per minute, increase the number of trips required to and from the asteroid, but also reduce the amount of wasted cycle at the end of an asteroid's life. Add killmails on the destruction of all 'Excavator' drones.
I'll have to use my line-item veto pen on this one fozzie, you'll be making something that finally became worth doing not worth doing. And I don't even own a rorq. |
Mr Bignose
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:26:09 -
[63] - Quote
The yield nerf is liveable but if you had to do it twice now and people are snowballing multiboxing fleets then it's going to be followed by another. Maybe the nature of upgraded anoms should be looked at instead because their capacity is huge and they respawn instantly after clearing. And unless you have a dozen rorqs or more a colossal barely feels crowded.
The P.A.N.I.C. nerf is just weird. Why not just have active modules cycle off when P.A.N.I.C. is activated? |
Cade Windstalker
875
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:26:53 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Tribal Trogdor wrote:Quote:Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid. So...if you go in and jam a rorq before he panics, he cant panic? that sounds like a pretty bad fix to the problem here I mean he can panic, just not PANIC
Going to second these concerns, this has serious potential to remove some of the thought and tactical application of the PANIC module for intended uses. Could you instead just make it so that the user has to be within X range of an Asteroid of some kind rather than actively have one locked? |
Hendrink Collie
Contra Ratio DARKNESS.
108
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:27:26 -
[65] - Quote
Querns wrote:Whole lotta folks not twigging to the fact that sieging the rorqual gives you ECM immunity ITT.
I won't comment directly on the nerf, but I do offer this: If the goal here is to help buttress mineral prices, consider taking a look at the mineral basket. (Ask Aryth if you don't understand what this means. Few do.) Decreasing the amount of pyerite and isogen in nullsec anomalies, while increasing mexallon (and to a lesser degree, nocx and mega) will do a lot to help correct the downward trend in minerals.
If you'd like an idea on how mineral prices react in a high-usage market, check the keepstar in 1DQ1-A.
Smug and knowledge all in the one post. I love you Querns.
But anyways, yeah, I really like the changes overall. Looks like CCP is trying to bump the mining fleet more towards fleets of exhumers with a rorqual or two providing strong boost and some defensive capabilities instead of fleets of roaming rorquals hoovering up everything. The PANIC changes are solid, too. Not bad.
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Coelomate Tian
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:27:31 -
[66] - Quote
Jay Amazingness wrote:I feel like people will just wait until the ore anom is dead and then be like I HAVE YOU NOW RORQUAL SCUM and tackle them.
In poorly defended areas of space, absolutely.
Wormholers dropping on nullsec rorqs will still largely be limited to immediate targets of opportunity in well-defended space though, which is something. |
Capqu
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1271
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:27:38 -
[67] - Quote
GOOD FIX THANKS FOZZLE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
170
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:27:50 -
[68] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:Sister Bliss wrote: Surely reduced ore respawn rates or dimished resources which would force territorial conflict is a better answer? Instead we're force fed a mind numbing solution to a problem of I don't know what. We want more tools for self reliance and generating conflict, not more agonizing tedium.
What actually is the design problem these changes are meant to resolve?
CCP isn't interested in solutions to a problem. At this point i just think they design their game drunk. If the problem with rorquals is the amount that is mined, just time ore anomalies the same as ice belts so you can't infinite mine them. If PANIC tackling things is the problem, change it to you can't use EWAR when you are in PANIC and you can't activate PANIC when ewar modules are active.. There are so many more elegant design solutions than what CCP wants with this, it's painful to see them blundering along.
There is long and proud history of drunken half-assed code originating on Iceland. See: most of EVE's older codebase. |
Messoroz
aquila inc Verge of Collapse
517
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:27:58 -
[69] - Quote
Why not PANIC => Max Target Locks = 0 |
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
374
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:28:11 -
[70] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:The problem with making panic a "Can't use ECM while active" is you can still jump in, get initial tackle on something THEN hit the PANIC when you go into hull. Then second rorq gets tackle. Rinse repeat.
just add something to the PANIC module;
- when PANIC module is fit, can't fit tackle.
Baddest poster ever
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yogizh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:28:40 -
[71] - Quote
This nerf is so bad that I gave likes to V0LTA |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6687
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:28:56 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid. ... and what about ice fields? |
Arele
Valar Morghulis. Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:30:06 -
[73] - Quote
Querns wrote:Well, I lied, I guess I will comment on the nerf: was there a technical challenge involved with giving PANIC the same malus to electronic warfare capacitor usage that Networked Sensor Arrays have, or was it a deliberate decision to not go that route?
Very odd they chose to go the second path unless the first was an un-forseen challenge to implement, as you are inquiring. Seems needlessly complex.. |
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
89
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:30:07 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Excavator Drones: We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy. While I appreciate the attempt, I believe it may be a bit late for that: Trit: https://i.imgur.com/FfWruzm.png Pyrite: https://i.imgur.com/def1XnE.png Nox: https://i.imgur.com/l3JzYPr.png
Hel build cost: https://i.imgur.com/d2aupwN.png This has created a huge increase in super production.
What are your thoughts on the massively accelerated super/titan proliferation?
Do you have any plans to address this problem of proliferation going forward? (now that sp is easily bought and available characters for sale are no longer a limitation). Or will we inevitably move to the situation where faction supers are standard fare, much like with subcaps? |
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
170
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:31:03 -
[75] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid. ... and what about ice fields?
NO SOUP FOR YOU! |
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
69
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:31:06 -
[76] - Quote
i think that rorqual nerf is getting close to to much.
Im fine with more back and forth because good rorqual pilots are going to be sitting on top of whatever they are going to be mining anyway.
but halfing the base is to much and since they are going to be doing more trips they are already going to be mining less just by that fact alone.
So i would say up it to 125-130m3 and keep the 60 seconds time...that would be a nerf to the m3 and that coupled with the increased trips back and forth should be more then enough of a nerf.
And you increasing the distance between roids so your also increasing the time it takes to set back up on another roid.
All these changes together is bigger then a simple 20% nerf here.
Your boost to the material drop rates for these drones haven't pushed the drone cost down much either, so i suggest you guys think about boosting that drop rate atleast 300% more then it currently is.. i wouldn't care as much about nerfs if these drones were 500 million each instead of 3 times that amount. |
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
170
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:32:26 -
[77] - Quote
Fifth Blade wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Excavator Drones: We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy. While I appreciate the attempt, I believe it may be a bit late for that: Trit: https://i.imgur.com/FfWruzm.png Pyrite: https://i.imgur.com/def1XnE.png Nox: https://i.imgur.com/l3JzYPr.png Hel build cost: https://i.imgur.com/d2aupwN.png This has created a huge increase in super production. What are your thoughts on the massively accelerated super/titan proliferation? Do you have any plans to address this, seemingly inevitable (now that sp is easily bought and available characters for sale are no longer a limitation) problem of proliferation going forward? Or will we inevitably move to the situation where faction supers are standard fare, much like with subcaps?
Look at the whole mineral basket, not just Trit, Pye and Nox. You might be enlightened.
Tip: Trit, Pye and Nocx are being over-mined to cover a shortfall of Mex from nullsec ore anoms. |
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
44
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:32:48 -
[78] - Quote
Capri Sun KraftFoods wrote:Malkshurr wrote:At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks It was then nerf by 32% and now is the nerf by another 25%?
So one rorqual is 2 hulks now 2 hulks - 600 - 700 million 1 rorqual - 12 B
And you do not see the problem ? same tbh like I can buy a thrasher and it to 250 dps for 10m But I buy Proteus for 600m and it only do 550 dps???????? cpp plz fix
Proteus for 600m? thats kinda cheap |
Obi SToN3D
House Aratus Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:33:35 -
[79] - Quote
once Fozzie has nerfed all the things maybe he will quit just like Greyscale but to what extent? |
Katsuya Kobayashi
1
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:34:47 -
[80] - Quote
I think this is a mistake.
You should just make PANIC worse, and you already gave an incentive to hunt drones with killmails.
I think your adjustments are awful, Fozzie, and you're doing a poor job. |
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3TEARS
Better Off Red Unspoken Alliance.
7
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:34:49 -
[81] - Quote
I feel like an easy solution would just be that the rorq cannot use offensive modules while in PANIC. Solves all the problems of super tackle while keeping it "safe" from falcons and while being somewhere there are no asteroids (for whatever reason). |
Capqu
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1271
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:35:25 -
[82] - Quote
i mean it still has
insane subcap-weapon dps insane tank local ewar immunity triage-tier reps links 10ly jump range no fatigue losing the iceblock in combat is a nerf but it's not gonna make the most overpowered ship ever conceived anywhere near balanced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
865
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:36:18 -
[83] - Quote
Quote: Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.
PL gonna be pissed! |
Sally Clay
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:38:21 -
[84] - Quote
Nice changes.
CCP please back colour icons to NEOCOM. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18669
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:39:14 -
[85] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Quote: Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid. PL gonna be pissed!
Muh Super Hic! |
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
44
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:39:20 -
[86] - Quote
Also I really don't like the way of: Hey, lets make Rorquals super OP so old players can mine all the ore and now nerf the Rorqual to **** so
a) new players got no reason to aim for one (because seriously, for the cost of a Rorqual you can get a second account and a hulk) b) the old players can sell all the ore they mined at a higher cost
The only way to fix that would be to take away all the unnerfed ore mined by Rorquals since the patch. Please tell me if you plan to do this, because in that case I need to rent a bigger car to buy all the popcorn I need for the reddit thread |
Coelomate Tian
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:40:37 -
[87] - Quote
Mr Bignose wrote:Maybe the nature of upgraded anoms should be looked at instead because their capacity is huge and they respawn instantly after clearing. And unless you have a dozen rorqs or more a colossal barely feels crowded.
delete this |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2666
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:40:43 -
[88] - Quote
Shalmon Aliatus wrote:The only way to fix that would be to take away all the unnerfed ore mined by Rorquals since the patch. Please tell me if you plan to do this, because in that case I need to rent a bigger car to buy all the popcorn I need for the reddit thread I mean, they could certainly do this, but most of us have turned the ore into other stuff. Eve doesn't have the accounting in place to track the ore further than that, if they even have the accounting to do just the ore.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Luna TheMoonrider
Daerie Inc. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:41:45 -
[89] - Quote
Well, i'm a GD, but not an indy guy, so my feedback will only be on things I know
CCP Fozzie wrote:Excavator Drones:- Speed up the cycle time of 'Excavator' ore mining drones to 60 seconds, and reduce the yield per cycle to 110 m3 base. This will reduce the idealized yield per minute, increase the number of trips required to and from the asteroid, but also reduce the amount of wasted cycle at the end of an asteroid's life.
- Add killmails on the destruction of all 'Excavator' drones.
- In March we are also planning on some UI/UX improvements for drones as a whole and mining drones in particular. These include a new keyboard shortcut for launching drones and enabling the "engage target" keyboard shortcut to work with mining drones. Discussion of these UI changes is best directed to this thread.
I don't have the numbers and all the big data, but it's seems a bit hard, second nerf in a row, without trying to effectively reduce the price of these very expensive drones. If the price drop accordingly, why not, but I feel sad for my mining friends.
Maybe also :
Wibla wrote:If you want to make the mineral market healthier, have a look at the ore composition in nullsec ore anoms vs mineral usage. Mexallon is a bottleneck, while some other minerals are basically waste material at this point. Like I said, not an indy, but maybe also a solution
CCP Fozzie wrote:PANIC Module:We have been keeping a close eye on potential issues related to the PANIC module for a while, and although we are overall quite happy with the module we are interested in reducing the power of a few uses, primarily use for fleet tackle and cyno lighting, as well as an escape method for entosis operations. To reduce the power of the PANIC module in these situations while also preserving all of its power for defending mining Rorquals and their fleets we are currently planning the following change: - Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.
It's the change I understand the least... So much other solutions : - Make it like the NSA for E-WAR and add entosis to the limitation - If Jump Fatigue, can't PANIC - If no piloted mining barge in range, can't PANIC
The big issue with this change, is that yes, you are invulnerable to ECM in indy mode, but not to Damp, so with enough damp, if the rorqual is in a belt, but not literraly kissing an asteroid, you're f****k and can't PANIC. (Well, you can actually panic atm)
It's really not a good idea.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Other misc mining changes:- Buffing the Mining Laser Field Enhancement foreman link from 30% to 40% base bonus.
- Increasing the optimal range of the ORE strip miners (to 18.75km) and ORE ice harvesters (to 12.5km).
- Spreading out the asteroids in the Asteroid Cluster ore anoms a bit to help the balance between shorter range drone mining and longer range exhumer mining.
- We are investigating the option of increasing the visual size of nullsec ore asteroids to help improve the feel of the ore anom environments (they've been a bit sad looking since the veld got removed) but we are not sure about some technical details of that potential change atm so no promises.
The spreading is an other nerf to the Rorqual, but other thing sounds goods.
Good luck team Five-0, I know balancing is hard! |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
327
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Posted - 2017.02.23 18:43:11 -
[90] - Quote
"We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy." ..
WOW Such timing.. because its not already lost 50% of its value.. and I doubt it will be enough "fixing" to save the patient..
but +1 for well some sort of "effort"..
Pro tip.. Get some RAW material sinks in there asap.. the eco system is becoming stupid.. and the busy bees in Delve will just make this a LOT worse..
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