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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Agent Li
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:07:00 -
[61]
If you want to make combat last longer, just recalibrate the way that damage is calculated. Instead of such a huge rise in damage from the smallest frigate guns to the largest weapons, make it less linear.
Right now, people brag about setups that will instantly blow up a lot of ships on the first volley. I think that should change - and they should turn BS battles into prolonged hour-long slugfests (even with two battleships pounding one), and raise the value of cruisers.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.04.12 19:34:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Longer Combat = more time to blob. Its only gonna get worse.
Very true. First CCP needs to fix the whole 0.0 stuff. POS warfare, supercapitals, lag. It is already impossible to kill supercapitals without a huge blob. Large fleets are necessary to kill POS etc.
Longer battles? That will lead only to larger blobs (in 0.0) and increased lag.
At least make supercapitals unable to enter low sec empire space.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:24:00 -
[63]
good idea xero
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.04.12 22:51:00 -
[64]
Originally by: SiJira good idea xero
Ty, was thinking of advanced skills being somewhat along the lines of this
Structural Damage Compensation - Rank 4 - Req Hull upgrades 5 Skill at reducing damage taken by your ship's recharge systems overheating. -6% damage taken by overheating per level.
Capacitor Current Routing - Rank 3 - Req Core Modifications 4, Energy Management 4 Skill at prolonging your ability to put strain on your ships Capacitor recharge systems. 3% bonus to how long you can maintain a higher capacitor recharge rate without overheating.
Shield Current routing - Rank 3 - Req Core Modifications 4, Shield Management 4 Skill at prolonging your ability to put strain on your ships Shield recharge systems. 3% bonus to how long you can maintain a higher shield recharge rate without overheating.
Discuss ----------
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Suitonia
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Posted - 2007.04.26 00:21:00 -
[65]
I think I'll post my views here (ideas :P)
The way I see it, is that each module has HP, (they do presently if you look, which oddly enough, doesn't seem to decrease, well it hasn't for me ever anyway). Even when looting stuff that has been from destroyed ships etc. So, I think that modules should lose their HP as they are overheated, until they are eventually destroyed.
I think there should be a low slot module, (overheater I) or whatever, that when active, will increase all your modules stats by a set figure (10% for example), but begin to damage modules randomly when they are used. as the damage builds up, prehaps the cap usage for that module should build up too?
I.e. small shield extender, (recovers 20HP, in exchange of 20Cap per 2 seconds) when overheated would provide 22HP, (not a great deal of improvement, but beneficial none the less, and would slowly lose HP while it was activated with an overheater). Cap use slowly increases, same as the percentage of HP lost from the module. i.e. a small shield extender with 10/20hp, will now use up 30cap. Which means that it will provide a quick boost when needed, but persistant use will make it harded for the player's cap, or even destroy modules. i.e. You can shove your tank on overheat mode to try and escape the gankers, but if they keep you too long you're going to suffer for it, it also would make overheating uber 1337 modules expensive because of the repair bill :P, this method also means that overheating is done outside the docking station, and would allow for more 'tactics' during combat, i.e. the carebear is going to escape, so overclock and blast him, or overclock your 'burners to evade quicker if your the one getting ganked.
As for tech III modules, or heat modules, I think they should be the same as their tech I & tech II modules, but provide increased amounts of HP, therefore, they are made for overclocking, since the penalties won't be as steep for overclocking tech III modules. Extra modules such as 'heatsinks' would simply have a large amount of HP, and would 'tank' some of the module HP damage.
Overheating skills would be nice I guess, prehaps one that increases module HP/ Decreases HP reduced from overheating, or speciality skills that increase the overheat bonus in various area, i.e. shield overclocking, grants 2% overclock bonus per level.
my 0.02 isk.
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sartorii
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.26 01:08:00 -
[66]
nice idea.. more actual 'tactical' options to Eve combat would certainly be more interesting..
however what is REALLY entertaining is those in this thread applying RL physics to Eve... when has that EVER mattered in the past?? and if we are going that direction how about starting with Firing arcs and Masking (500 ships in a blob CANT hit the same target) so that maneuver, position and formation actually matter??
then we can move on to inertia and maybe have an actual tactical game?? lol...
/me goes back to dreaming
"disconnect and self destruct one mullet at at time" [sic] |
VaderDSL
Caldari Incoherent Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.26 01:57:00 -
[67]
Sig radius calculations in the number of hostiles able to lock a ship in my opinion would be a good start.
Say a battleship has a sig radius of 450 There is an enemy gang of 10 sniper megathrons each with two sensor boosters as they are at max range.
Each sniper with two sensor boosters activated will require an unused 75m signature radius to pinpoint the guns.
450/75 = 6
Out of the 10, the first 6 get a lock the remaining 4 due to lower skills are unable to lock the enemy battleship, so they then start firing on another target.
This brings into play the Caldari into PvP as they will have lower sig radius for their launchers, so more people able to target the enemy ships. But also means they have to think about their setups in that they can't simply bang lots of extenders on and shield power relays as the massive sig radius will let many more ships target it.
Logistics will be called into play as then cannot be instapopped by a fleet as only 1 or maybe 2 battleships will be able to lock it, and transversal will be a key factor for these ships (skill)
Target painters become a valid EW module again, allowing larger sig radius of enemy ships allwing more people to target them.
Mixed fleets are essential as smaller classes have much smaller sig radius use on their weapons, so a logistics ship will be fairly safe from snipers, but when 6 HAC's warp on it it is toast.
Fleets will have more time to maneuver and coordination will be the key.
CovOps/Stealthbomber can hunt down safe spot repair locations where logistics may wait to remote repair ships should they feel the need to stay out of sight, and will need their own counter cov ops force and protection of battlecruisers and HAC's.
Command ships will be able to go on the front line and use their warfare links, also many more opportunities for new warfare links.
BIG Lottery |
Mrsticks
Minmatar RNCGM Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.26 02:03:00 -
[68]
Here is a thought make things that don't use much cap, Minmatar Pea shooters/Missiles Generate much more heat than Lazar/Rails,blasters. And Nos should generate LOTS of heat as a balance. One should be manageable but 4-8 should be death to heat.
Long Live TEXAS! Texans join the Texas channel in game plz. Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dam |
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.26 02:40:00 -
[69]
You what i think Heat will do for Eve?
. . .
...cause more lag. The new gang system anyone?
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.26 03:08:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: SiJira good idea xero
Ty, was thinking of advanced skills being somewhat along the lines of this
Structural Damage Compensation - Rank 4 - Req Hull upgrades 5 Skill at reducing damage taken by your ship's recharge systems overheating. -6% damage taken by overheating per level.
Capacitor Current Routing - Rank 3 - Req Core Modifications 4, Energy Management 4 Skill at prolonging your ability to put strain on your ships Capacitor recharge systems. 3% bonus to how long you can maintain a higher capacitor recharge rate without overheating.
Shield Current routing - Rank 3 - Req Core Modifications 4, Shield Management 4 Skill at prolonging your ability to put strain on your ships Shield recharge systems. 3% bonus to how long you can maintain a higher shield recharge rate without overheating.
Discuss
well other than saying great idea !
i have to say that if your weapons cause heat increase on enemy then this will be enough of a boost to amarr (biggest heat causing - even compared to missiles) to begin eve going in the right direction instead of the whiner direction !
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.26 05:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: VaderDSL Sig radius calculations in the number of hostiles able to lock a ship in my opinion would be a good start.
Say a battleship has a sig radius of 450 There is an enemy gang of 10 sniper megathrons each with two sensor boosters as they are at max range.
Each sniper with two sensor boosters activated will require an unused 75m signature radius to pinpoint the guns.
450/75 = 6
Out of the 10, the first 6 get a lock the remaining 4 due to lower skills are unable to lock the enemy battleship, so they then start firing on another target.
This brings into play the Caldari into PvP as they will have lower sig radius for their launchers, so more people able to target the enemy ships. But also means they have to think about their setups in that they can't simply bang lots of extenders on and shield power relays as the massive sig radius will let many more ships target it.
Logistics will be called into play as then cannot be instapopped by a fleet as only 1 or maybe 2 battleships will be able to lock it, and transversal will be a key factor for these ships (skill)
Target painters become a valid EW module again, allowing larger sig radius of enemy ships allwing more people to target them.
Mixed fleets are essential as smaller classes have much smaller sig radius use on their weapons, so a logistics ship will be fairly safe from snipers, but when 6 HAC's warp on it it is toast.
Fleets will have more time to maneuver and coordination will be the key.
CovOps/Stealthbomber can hunt down safe spot repair locations where logistics may wait to remote repair ships should they feel the need to stay out of sight, and will need their own counter cov ops force and protection of battlecruisers and HAC's.
Command ships will be able to go on the front line and use their warfare links, also many more opportunities for new warfare links.
That is a great suggestion as well
could work !
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Sharcy
Sonnema
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Posted - 2007.04.26 10:51:00 -
[72]
Originally by: sartorii and if we are going that direction how about starting with Firing arcs and Masking (500 ships in a blob CANT hit the same target) so that maneuver, position and formation actually matter??
/SO signed. IRL, blob warefare the way it's happening in EVE wouldn't make sense. A ship blowing up would damage its surroundings. Ships firing when close together would risk hitting eachother. Bumping would damage both vessels (and destroy small ones). Solve this, and you'll see less big fleets.
--
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Fookin Rats
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Posted - 2007.04.26 11:50:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Soporo Thanks Asestorian, that adds a bit more info to the mix.
Unrelated: Was talking to a refrigeration guy at work and he said something that sounds completely crazy, just this..."you cant ever cool anything down, you can just remove heat." WTF.
Psuedo-intellectual alert. What he says is true, but anyone that isn't teaching a class involving thermodynamics is trying to inflate their e-peen.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:01:00 -
[74]
Edited by: SiJira on 26/04/2007 15:58:11
Originally by: Sharcy
Originally by: sartorii and if we are going that direction how about starting with Firing arcs and Masking (500 ships in a blob CANT hit the same target) so that maneuver, position and formation actually matter??
/SO signed. IRL, blob warefare the way it's happening in EVE wouldn't make sense. A ship blowing up would damage its surroundings. Ships firing when close together would risk hitting eachother. Bumping would damage both vessels (and destroy small ones). Solve this, and you'll see less big fleets.
to make bumping cause damage would need a lot of code rewriting - station exit points - aggression timers in high sec
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Gun Hog
Caldari Ardent Industrial Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.26 16:43:00 -
[75]
I know that someone, somewhere is going to get alpha-striked by 8 tachyon lasers set to max. I think heat would make fast fights faster, but would make fighting mega-tanked ships quite interesting. ------------------------------------------ The original ultra noob 0.0 carebear |
Black Seraph
RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.26 18:54:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Gun Hog I know that someone, somewhere is going to get alpha-striked by 8 tachyon lasers set to max. I think heat would make fast fights faster, but would make fighting mega-tanked ships quite interesting.
QFT.
Btw, I hope heat management is something done on the fly, I would hate if overloading modules and whatnot could only be accomplished on the fitting screen, it would completely remove the point. Hearing that its another PG/CPU/Calibration constraint makes me worry that CCP took this in the wrong direction.
http://www.geocities.com/microdave0/blackwhite.gif Limits for signatures are 400x120 pixels and 24,000 bytes. Please fix your signature. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.27 01:46:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Gun Hog I know that someone, somewhere is going to get alpha-striked by 8 tachyon lasers set to max. I think heat would make fast fights faster, but would make fighting mega-tanked ships quite interesting.
that just might make the attacking ship gank themselves !
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Copine Callmeknau
The Splinter Syndicate R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.27 02:09:00 -
[78]
Please, combat is long enough. Increasing it further is giong to kill the last remnants of solo PvP. I just hope heat will allow me to supercharge my guns, double the damage mod on my 1400 II's? Yes please
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Originally by: Uncle Chop Chop Harden the **** up
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k'ehana Atthour
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Posted - 2007.04.27 02:16:00 -
[79]
What about drones, will heat affect them too?, i can see drones being left out as they will be a pain to implement?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.27 15:06:00 -
[80]
Originally by: k'ehana Atthour What about drones, will heat affect them too?, i can see drones being left out as they will be a pain to implement?
if heat affects everything then why would drones be hard to implement ?
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barvo
7th Space Cavalry Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.27 15:47:00 -
[81]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: k'ehana Atthour What about drones, will heat affect them too?, i can see drones being left out as they will be a pain to implement?
if heat affects everything then why would drones be hard to implement ?
Off topic alert - but:
Because it seems to be so hard to make them work properly even without heat?
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Gun Hog
Caldari Ardent Industrial Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.27 15:58:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Gun Hog on 27/04/2007 15:58:04 Edited by: Gun Hog on 27/04/2007 15:56:27 Edited by: Gun Hog on 27/04/2007 15:55:52 - I do not think heat would change anything on ships that have normal settings.
- It only makes sense that you would control your ship's heat on the fly. If you had to set it to max before leaving a station, you could end up disabling your weapons or blowing yourself up!
- Drones are probably too unique to impliment heat. Besides, managing multiple types of drones would mean different heat levels. It would be a pain to micro each of your drones AND your own ship. ------------------------------------------ The original ultra noob 0.0 carebear |
Crescens
Caldari Dark Tornado Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.27 16:10:00 -
[83]
Longer fights are bad. Smaller fights are good. Gank is more exciting than tank, but at the moment PVP is moving towards the latter.
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Senbei Roshi
Temporal Heuristic Concepts
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Posted - 2007.04.27 21:28:00 -
[84]
I have a fairly simple idea that would revolutionize combat as we know it... Make capacitors recharge like a capacitor... Right now, capacitors use some strange cosine function for the rate of recharge, which results in a "bell-like" curve, rather than the exponential one of true capacitor recharge. What this would mean to combat is it would become easier to sustain constant drain modules, but at a lower point in the capacitor's capacity. This may need to be offset by a small increase in module activation costs.
I have already crunched the numbers, and only needed to make one assumption as to how the ships operate, that being since a capacitor never truly reaches the level of the charging voltage, have the cap charge to 90% the charging voltage, with the other 10% of power reserved for the other ships' systems. Using the 90% charge point allows for the use of a constant value instead of relying on the actual charge voltage.
The formula for capacitor charge is:
Vc = V * 1 - e^( -T /( R * C ))
where Vc = Current Charge of Capacitor V = Charging Voltage e = exponential constant (~2.71828) T = Time to charge (from show info) R = Resistance C = True Capacitor Capacity
Transforming this formula around we see that:
R = T / C * ln( V /( V - Vc ))
and if Vc(max) is always 90% of V then ln( V /( V * 0.9 ))= 2.30259 leaving us with
R = T / ( C * 2.30259 )
If we make the assumption that the Capacitor value given in show info is 90% of the max charge of the capacitor, and use this derived max charge amount as both the charging voltage and the true capacitor capacity, we can derive a charge curve with only the pre-existing Capacitor and Charge Time values.
Vc(max) = Capacitor Capacity (from show info) C = Vc(max) / 0.9 t = current time (as if charging from 0)
The formula has now become:
Vc = C * ( 1 - e ^ ( -t / ( R * C ) ) )
The Maximum Energy stored and the time to recharge remains the same, only the curve has changed.
These results are for a Caracal, but the curves would be identical for ANY ship, only the values along it would change:
Charge Level over Time
Charge Rate
My apologies for the long post, but I hope it was educational at least.
Ignorance is Bliss And the Opposite is True Genius is Madness |
Templer Relleg
Exit 13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.27 21:33:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Senbei Roshi ALOT of cool stuff
You are too smart for your own good im afraid
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Dr Felonius
Caldari Civilian Purposes Limited
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Posted - 2007.04.27 22:59:00 -
[86]
It'd be cool if they buried a buff to Amarr in heat by making Amarr ships more resistant to heat-related malfunctions.
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BABARR
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Posted - 2007.04.27 23:02:00 -
[87]
The boost of HP is good, combat are longer, its good, but the agro timer on gate must be fixed ! it's too easy to tank and jump back/dock now.
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Dorah Hawkwing
Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.27 23:59:00 -
[88]
Make the slider a pyramid, with the three points being : Weapons 8dmg), Tank, and Speed. Balance between all three is in the middle of the triangle, any shift towards a point weakens the other two, any shift towards a sides middle weapens one not and strenghtens the other two for not as much of an amount.
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Nate D
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.28 03:16:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Senbei Roshi ???
Awesome stuff dude. I'm down for some realistic ****zle-nizzle.
-Nate
A New EVE Voice In Game Channel |
Benglada
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.28 04:33:00 -
[90]
Uh, 2 rigged battleships with no implants cant break each others tank.. ---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos |
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