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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:40:00 -
[1]
With the change to nanos i started to test new fittings for my viator and after trying alot of different fittings the best result i got was a 7 second align from standing still, now i don't have the time before this patch but im sure of that it warped alot faster before the change.
7 second aling and warp was with 3x local i-stabs , i tried all variations with local i-stabs/overdrives/nanos.
7 seconds is plenty time for a BS to lock u if it has 1x T2 sensor booster, a interceptor can lock u get in orbit and start shooting in that time even if he's slow in he's reactions.
In my disapointment with this change i decided to try an IT V with the same fitting and to my suprise it warped in 7 seconds aswell.
So my question and concern is, what makes the viator even deserve the attribute "blockade runner" after this change, the IT V has more lows, cargo, rig slots. The only thing u gain is +2 warp core strenght and some resists and the +2 is something u can get due to the extra lows.
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:46:00 -
[2]
+2 = u need 2 ceptors to scramble you (no one use 7,5km scram this days). + u still can fit wcses in low slots. --------
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:50:00 -
[3]
Yes +2 that i can get on the IT V and still get the same warp time.
And if i fit stabs in low the warp time gets even higher so hardy an argument.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hoshi on 21/03/2007 00:51:41 The Iterion V have 2 more low slots where it could put stabs so the built in bonus is worth nothing. It's not like the lock speed/range reduction matters to an indy.
Blockad runners are the only t2 ships that have LESS slots than their t1 versions.
Edit: Btw they have a completely useless bonus from the transport ship skill as well. Most people don't even bother training Transport ships above level 1. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Olea Avenger
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Olea Avenger on 21/03/2007 01:17:09 My prowler is no longer the ship it used to be. It is true that for a while istabs where better then nano's, but now the use of these ships is pretty much pointless over some of the tech 1 ships. My prowler takes far to long to warp now. It used to be only the fastest of inties could lock me before I entered warp. Now pretty much even hacs and command ships can lock me and put points on me before I can get into warp. The blockade runners have become a lot less useful.
The prowler does get a shield boost bonus, but it is almost useless as you can't fit both a MWD and Shield booster without sacrificing one of your lows to a PDU. The amount of shields is almost nothing if you actually start getting attacked. The ship also lacks the get up and go to say run a dictor bubble to the gate.
Sign up for the campaign against Angel ratts today. |
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: NIkis on 21/03/2007 01:24:30
"Blockade runners" are a joke as they are now, not true blockade runners, very far from it actually. The least CCP could do is give them one more lowslot across the board and bubble immunity. As it stands now, deep space transports got more cargo space, better resists, more shield and/or armour (even DOUBLE in some cases), more lows (even after fitting 2 lows with WCS to compensate for the so-called 'bonus' the runners got). Their disadvantage would be a slightly higher align time, slightly lower speed, and higher signature (which doesn't matter when we're talking of camps with inty,af's, and any SB ship as tacklers). So blockade runners are BROKEN. Fix them BEFORE adding new content please. But somehow I doubt that will happen Maybe nerf deep space transports instead ?
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Elin
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Posted - 2007.03.21 02:21:00 -
[7]
+1 For this... These ships not blockade runners anymore. Mine is fitted with 2 agility rigs and still have 6 seconds for warping out. With nerf of i-stabs reducing mass, ships became average industrial with with 3 slots moved to build-in WCS. + It lost ~900 m/s of MWD speed. Result: if you try to warp away you get scrambled by anyone who want. If you try to get back to gate you get webbed and killed.
Originally by: Valandril +2 = u need 2 ceptors to scramble you (no one use 7,5km scram this days). + u still can fit wcses in low slots.
Who uses intis this day ?? Arazu / lachesis with 2 +2 at 20km and you need nothing more.
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Lithalnas
Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.03.21 03:14:00 -
[8]
2x WCS II that gives you a warp strength of +6 which means people will have to have 7 scams on you. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day |
Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.21 03:20:00 -
[9]
used to be 2 seconds or so.. blockade runners really do need looked at.
warp core stab IIs do not exist in game unless they were added in the patch today (well like 5 existed but none for sale)
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Elin
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lithalnas 2x WCS II that gives you a warp strength of +6 which means people will have to have 7 scams on you.
Lol! You die before you reach half of warp speed. Or ger bumped by someone and die aniway.
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BravoFox
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lithalnas 2x WCS II that gives you a warp strength of +6 which means people will have to have 7 scams on you.
Since the implementing of Invention (or maybe earlier) WCS II's no longer give a +2 Warp Strength Bonus. They are +1 just like every other WCS. The only difference is the amount it effects your max range and scan resolution.
So you'll end up with +4 Warp Strength. You may get through some camps but there are plenty of camps with at least 5 people out there and with a 7+ second align & warp time... likely all 5 people will get their lock before you warp
Now Taking Freighter Service Contracts
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Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.03.21 07:26:00 -
[12]
man.. my prorator is slow... i used 2x istabs and 2x expanders on it. lost about 300+ mwd speed (can deal whit it) but allso lost ALOT of agility... even tho those damn things give more bonus to it now.
when i get back home ill experiment whit istabs and nanos.. mybe some combination will get me to warp faster Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog ----------------- |
NIkis
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.03.21 08:24:00 -
[13]
Edited by: NIkis on 21/03/2007 08:25:50
Originally by: BravoFox
Originally by: Lithalnas 2x WCS II that gives you a warp strength of +6 which means people will have to have 7 scams on you.
Since the implementing of Invention (or maybe earlier) WCS II's no longer give a +2 Warp Strength Bonus. They are +1 just like every other WCS. The only difference is the amount it effects your max range and scan resolution.
So you'll end up with +4 Warp Strength. You may get through some camps but there are plenty of camps with at least 5 people out there and with a 7+ second align & warp time... likely all 5 people will get their lock before you warp
Looks like someone been away from eve since the WCS been nerfed into oblivion. I always thought and said the WCS II should remain +2 but oh well. Now its time to reap the results. Who cares actually since probably only a handful (read rich b*s) would use them. Oh and if you fit a couple WCS on any industrial as they are now, align time would allow even another industrial to lock and scram you by the time you can warp away. Way broken especially for 'blockade runners' (mock term as it is now) with their lows shortage.
Oh and blockade runners were broken even before the nano nerf (read the part about what a real blockade runner would be, above), it just taken this little bit to draw them over the edge so people would notice, THEY SUCK NOW.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:10:00 -
[14]
How to use a Viator:
Fit an improved cloak and MWD. Hope that you won't be within 2km of anything after a jump. Align manually towards your destination (or if within 2km of something, towards some warpable object away from it). Activate MWD, activate cloak. Wait until MWD turns off, deactivate cloak, warp instantly. No Iteron can do that without using low slots for grid boosters.
That said, they could use some agility boosting. And yeah, the Gallente/Amarr bonuses are useless. -- NMTZ forum |
Martin Adeupname
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:18:00 -
[15]
Before the nano-nerf my blockade runner aligned and warped in 4-5 seconds, with a top speed of ~3300 m/s. It beat gate camps for fun.
I tested lots of setups on the test server before the patch. Now my top speed is 2900 m/s and I align and warp in 5 seconds. Considering that my big fear of being bumped by a nanophoon as I aligned is now substantially reduced, I'm happy enough. |
Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:37:00 -
[16]
Yeah this isn't ideal. My prowler warps like a granny in a supermarket since yesterday, and that's with all nav skills at 4 and i-stabs.
Great.
The only thing that sets them apart now is the warp speed, but I bet that'll be next.
Guess we just have to wait and see what the pitchfork wielding mob go for next eh?
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Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Martin Adeupname Before the nano-nerf my blockade runner aligned and warped in 4-5 seconds, with a top speed of ~3300 m/s. It beat gate camps for fun.
I tested lots of setups on the test server before the patch. Now my top speed is 2900 m/s and I align and warp in 5 seconds. Considering that my big fear of being bumped by a nanophoon as I aligned is now substantially reduced, I'm happy enough.
what ship and setups :)
i dont mind the low sepeed i have atm (1,3km/s)but id like to aligne faster :) i can use caldari and amarr transporsts :) Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog ----------------- |
Venkhar Krard
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:44:00 -
[18]
Oh well, why not.
Pls boost the base speed and lower the mass of blockade runners.
There. Maybe they will change it now.
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Martin Adeupname
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Posted - 2007.03.21 12:09:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Martin Adeupname on 21/03/2007 12:09:45 Edited by: Martin Adeupname on 21/03/2007 12:08:41
Originally by: Riho
what ship and setups :)
Prowler - lowest mass and highest base speed of a blockade runner. The downside is only only two low slots, but I'm not going to spend 20 days training for a viator just to compare setups!
Relevent skills: Navigation V, Acceleration Control IV, Evasive Maneuvering IV, Spaceship Command IV Implants: 3% speed, 3% MWD/AB speed boost and 3% agility implants - these are all relatively cheap
YT-8 10 MN microwarpdrive 2 Local Hull Inertial Stabilisers 2 Polycarbon Engine Housing I rigs
I played around with all kinds of nanofibre/inertia/rig setups on the test server. Some were awful - 11 seconds to align and warp! It seems that reducing inertia and mass is better than boosting agility, at least for the module layout of the Prowler.
I might try removing the MWD altogether, that adds 50% to the base mass of the Prowler (5000 tonnes on to 10000 tonnes), at least for low-sec work anyway, and see how that mass reduction affects the align and warp time. Time-to-warp is always better than speed or tanking, and the ECM bursts might save me where a MWD wouldn't...
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smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2007.03.21 12:27:00 -
[20]
mwd only affects mass when in use afaik.
sgb
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.03.21 12:57:00 -
[21]
Help for Blockade runners:
+ speed - a bit of mass make warp bubbles not effect them
Suddenly they have a very specific, useful bonus worth training the training time. It also gives ceptor tacklers something to do.
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
eXtas
Kemono. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 13:19:00 -
[22]
weee finaly we got rid of instawarping ships \o/ u know your hauler shouldnt be unkillable
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zevex
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: eXtas weee finaly we got rid of instawarping ships \o/ u know your hauler shouldnt be unkillable
...but they should be able to get into warp before anything larger than a frig can lock them. They are "Blockade Runners" after all.
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R'adeh
Gallente Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:07:00 -
[24]
I don't fly them often, but I think it would be cool to give 'em some better bonus. Making them resistant to warp bubbles would be a good solution imo. _______________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:09:00 -
[25]
Join a corp and have someone protect your butt. You're in a hauler, not a blockade runner. That would be a semi armed ship with more then typical cargo room. YOU ARE IN A HAULER, and non-combat, empire ship. 7 seconds is pretty damn good, but if you are flying alone thru low sec in a hauler you are BEGGING on some sort of sexual level to get popped. (As in you are IN to that sort of thing. WIERD.)
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eXtas
Kemono. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: R'adeh I don't fly them often, but I think it would be cool to give 'em some better bonus. Making them resistant to warp bubbles would be a good solution imo.
no that would make them overpowered! like all damn ships was with 2+ istabs fitted and its a hauler after all and they are still hard to catch unless its a bigger camp
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:32:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Et alii on 21/03/2007 15:28:39
Originally by: Megan Maynard Join a corp and have someone protect your butt. You're in a hauler, not a blockade runner. That would be a semi armed ship with more then typical cargo room. YOU ARE IN A HAULER, and non-combat, empire ship. 7 seconds is pretty damn good, but if you are flying alone thru low sec in a hauler you are BEGGING on some sort of sexual level to get popped. (As in you are IN to that sort of thing. WIERD.)
Sorry u said what ?
"Blockade runner transports are the fastest type of industrial available. Utilizing sturdy but lightweight construction materials and sacrificing some cargo space, these haulers are able to reach speeds greater than those of a cruiser while withstanding heavy fire - factors which make them ideal for zipping through dangerous territories with valuable cargo."
It is a blockade runner but as it stands now it's no where near agile enough to be called that hence the complaint.
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R'adeh
Gallente Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: eXtas
Originally by: R'adeh I don't fly them often, but I think it would be cool to give 'em some better bonus. Making them resistant to warp bubbles would be a good solution imo.
no that would make them overpowered! like all damn ships was with 2+ istabs fitted and its a hauler after all and they are still hard to catch unless its a bigger camp
Well, now that they take 7sec to align, ceptors will have plenty of time to lock 'em up. Before the patch, my Viator was unstoppable...I didn't even worry about bubbles because there was no way they could prevent me from going back to the gate, even with Huginns. I want the tanking bonus changed to an agility bonus. It's not like a blockade runner will survive if he really has to tank _______________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. |
eXtas
Kemono. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Et alii Edited by: Et alii on 21/03/2007 15:28:39
Originally by: Megan Maynard Join a corp and have someone protect your butt. You're in a hauler, not a blockade runner. That would be a semi armed ship with more then typical cargo room. YOU ARE IN A HAULER, and non-combat, empire ship. 7 seconds is pretty damn good, but if you are flying alone thru low sec in a hauler you are BEGGING on some sort of sexual level to get popped. (As in you are IN to that sort of thing. WIERD.)
Sorry u said what ?
"Blockade runner transports are the fastest type of industrial available. Utilizing sturdy but lightweight construction materials and sacrificing some cargo space, these haulers are able to reach speeds greater than those of a cruiser while withstanding heavy fire - factors which make them ideal for zipping through dangerous territories with valuable cargo."
It is a blockade runner but as it stands now it's no where near agile enough to be called that hence the complaint.
u tried to check how fast a deimos is or how fast it warps? now compare that to a viator
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Flesh Eater Are you sure? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the new inertia stabilisers give more of an agility bonus than the nanofibers before this latest patch? (eg a local hull istab gives 20% bonus, while the old local hull nano gave only 15%?)
And I agree, transport ships could be a bit better....the shield/armor boost bonus they get is somewhat pointless....fitting shield extenders will almost always be better than a booster/repairer.
Yes they give more but the ship still takes about twice as long to warp from before, something got broken with this patch hence the topic.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Join a corp and have someone protect your butt. You're in a hauler, not a blockade runner. That would be a semi armed ship with more then typical cargo room. YOU ARE IN A HAULER, and non-combat, empire ship. 7 seconds is pretty damn good, but if you are flying alone thru low sec in a hauler you are BEGGING on some sort of sexual level to get popped. (As in you are IN to that sort of thing. WIERD.)
ignorance ftl
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zevex
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Et alii Sorry u said what ?
"Blockade runner transports are the fastest type of industrial available. Utilizing sturdy but lightweight construction materials and sacrificing some cargo space, these haulers are able to reach speeds greater than those of a cruiser while withstanding heavy fire - factors which make them ideal for zipping through dangerous territories with valuable cargo."
It is a blockade runner but as it stands now it's no where near agile enough to be called that hence the complaint.
/signed
Originally by: R'adeh
Well, now that they take 7sec to align, ceptors will have plenty of time to lock 'em up. Before the patch, my Viator was unstoppable...I didn't even worry about bubbles because there was no way they could prevent me from going back to the gate, even with Huginns. I want the tanking bonus changed to an agility bonus. It's not like a blockade runner will survive if he really has to tank
My Prowler was similar. Its max velocity went from 2.9k down to 2.3km, and it easily takes an extra 2 sec. to get into warp. Interceptors could lock me before the patch (at least those with ultra alert pilots), but now I am guessing that all frigs, and some cruisers will have time to lock before I am aligned and warping.
If we cannot get an agility bonus, at least lower our sig rads by about 10% and then add ... "Spacial Distortion Technology lowers your signature radius by 17.5% per level."
With this, if you were to train the Transport skill to lvl 4, you would be as hard to lock as interceptors are.
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Larshus Magrus
Chosen Path Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:37:00 -
[33]
/agree
This situation is not good. When all the ships were boosted hp a few patches ago the t2 blockade runners received no hp boost. So in effect they were stealth nerfed a few patches ago. The ONLY reason to use the diminished cargo space of a blocakade runner was the REALLY fast warp time that gave you a chance of breaking through a camp with inties. IF they had a dictor or a bubble you still were looking at a situation where you had a good chance of not making it.
Now if there is a dictor, bubble, ect you WILL die... there is just no way around it.
Change the transport skill. Its useless anyways. Make it a 5% or 10% agility bonus per level. That will put the blockade runners in line with how they were.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Flesh Eater Are you sure? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the new inertia stabilisers give more of an agility bonus than the nanofibers before this latest patch? (eg a local hull istab gives 20% bonus, while the old local hull nano gave only 15%?)
And I agree, transport ships could be a bit better....the shield/armor boost bonus they get is somewhat pointless....fitting shield extenders will almost always be better than a booster/repairer.
There are two thing there. First is the fact that since inertial stabs where unnerfed but before this patch they where mostly used not nanofibers as they had an effective 27.7% agility increase for the local hull version.
Second agility didn't use to be stacking penelized but is now. So fitting 5+ of the old nano fibers would give you more agility than the same number of current istabs. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2007.03.21 19:10:00 -
[35]
please fix my choo-choo :(
-Duct tape might hold the univurse together, but it's coffee that makes it tick |
Adelai Niska
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Posted - 2007.03.21 20:21:00 -
[36]
The exact same mechanics that made nano BS unstoppable also made blockade runners playable.
Transport ships have bonusses that do nothing to benefit 95% of their combat encounters, and nothing significant to benefit the rest.
Fix them.
A) DSTs: Double powergrid and CPU. They should be as armored as HACs, as actively repped/boosted as cruisers, but slow at BS, particularly when expanded. BRs:Make inertia only 50% of their t1 counterparts. Inside a bubble, these should be about as survivable (more armor, less speed) as an interdictor. B) Give us a reason to train Transport Ships to level 5, just as every skill should have a reason. Amarr DST: +10% to all armor resistances per level, +10% armor amount per level Amarr BR: +1 warp strength per level, -10% inertia per level Caldari DST: +10% to all shield resists per level, -10% to ECM Pulse duration, and cap usage per level Caldari BR: +1 warp strength per level, -10% to ECM Pulse duration and cap usage Gallente DST: +5% to all armor resistances per level, -10% to armor repairer duration and cap usage per level Gallente BR: +1 warp strength per level, -10% sig radius per level Minmatar DST: +10% to all shield resists per level, -10% to shield booster duration and cap usage Minmatar BR: +1 warp strength per level, +15% speed per level
These are serious boosts - but running blockades and surviving solo in 0.0 should at least be POSSIBLE for ships which are explicitly designed to do so. They will still die to large bubbles, larger gatecamps, and harder tackles.
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Imperil
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 20:48:00 -
[37]
A blockade runner is just as intended, it can run from small camps. What more can you ask for? If you really think t1 industrials are sooo better then use those and give your t2 to me.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 21:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Imperil A blockade runner is just as intended, it can run from small camps. What more can you ask for? If you really think t1 industrials are sooo better then use those and give your t2 to me.
Think u'r missing the point here, before patch a blockade runner warped in 2-3 seconds with nanos in low, now after patch it takes doubble that and this with full rack of local i-stabs ss yes it worked as intended but after patch it doesn't work anymore.
The blockade runners survivability before this patch was imo well balanced, u warped fast enough to avoid criusers, battleships and the ocational sleeping inty, and if u encountered several intys or a bubble camp u where fairly screwd.
The changes in this patch caused a undesired effect as it took away the strenght of the blockade runner making it on the same level as it's T1 counterpart and even it's big brother so an occator will get the same warp time with more cargo and still have spare lows thus removing the reason for the blockade runner beeing in game at all.
btw. would love to see u run from a small camp with 7 sec align time.
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BuyMyToasters
Caldari Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.22 01:11:00 -
[39]
Edited by: BuyMyToasters on 22/03/2007 01:08:11 Heh, first T2 ship I train for gets nerfed. Such is life in Eve Honestly "improving" the Blockade Runner Class (I'm not sure that it is "broken") is as simple as changing the bonuses. Specifically the agility should be looked at first since its agility that has kept my Viator alive and not its ability to tank or its max speed. Reduced mass, increased agility, smaller sig, increased speed, more resists, or any number of bonuses could be applied. Seems like an easy change to me.
Fake Edit: BR's are the win for shopping in empire and bringing home the groceries to 0.0
el oh el sig |
Dynast
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Posted - 2007.03.22 01:37:00 -
[40]
Speaking as someone who has been slowly stocking a deep 0.0 market via 30+ jump trips in a blockade runner, I'm quite disappointed at the effect the nano-BS nerf has had on my Viator. It was sure as hell never safe making the trips, but I could at least feel semi-confident that as long as I didn't blunder into a huge bubble camp I'd probably make it.
Hopefully CCP will consider countering the negative impact these (necessary) changes have had on the Transport ships, by shifting some of their rather worthless bonuses to something more useful, such as agility increases, inertia decreases, speed increases, or signature radius decreases.
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General Meridus
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.22 03:04:00 -
[41]
Anyone who says these ships are still useful does not fly them into 0.0. That is specifically what they were designed for. Large blockade runners were parked eons ago, with the introduction of bubbles and spheres. The ONLY thing that made the smaller ones viable was speed.
Any moderate gate camp can insta pop a hauler, regardless of how its fitted. Frankly any moderate gate camp can take down any solo ship that it can get a lock on. Don't talk about escorts. No corp can escort for 4000m3, of transport space. Traders in 0.0. did their business by busting camps.
Goods will now have to be jumped in by capital ships. Not quite what I believe they were designed for. Trade running was hazardous enough. This "fix" has wiped it out.
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Cmdr Delrox
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.22 03:34:00 -
[42]
I think not much work is needed. For example the Occulator is good as it can tank long enough if you have an escort. The Viator needs some work though. Get rid of the tanking bonus and change it to an inertia bonus and an additional speed bonus.
Alt Posting
Death to Dark Shikari |
Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.03.22 04:50:00 -
[43]
I know the devs don't liked /signed, but I have to do it. There's not a whole lot to add, Blockade Runners need some loving in order to be able to run through blockades again. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Filthy Pierre
Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.22 06:30:00 -
[44]
Dear oh dear.....
And to think I *was* going to buy a Viator as my next purchase - don't think I'll be bothering now.
Wonder if I can petition for the cost of the TS skill book back?
FP
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.22 12:58:00 -
[45]
/me leaves a gift in this thread to lure Tux in to it
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MasaMan
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Posted - 2007.03.22 14:26:00 -
[46]
/singed I did a lot of good work in my BR and never trained it over lvl1 However they only cost about 20-30mill well under priced for the many 100s of Mill I have moved to and from deep 0.0 maybe this nerf brings them down to what the price tag is worth You could make a mockery of most camps thoà..good times
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Bodhisattvas
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.03.22 14:32:00 -
[47]
Hmmmmm More gate fodder Keep up the good work....
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Megabond
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.22 14:36:00 -
[48]
/signed. Unless you're willing to introduce a covert-ops industrial, you need to fix this. There are plenty of ways to kill a blockade runner, but a 2-man gatecamp shouldn't be one of them.
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Aleria Angelis
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.03.22 14:38:00 -
[49]
And i used to love my shinny Prorator
Its not like they were overpowered in the first place, as mentioned in their description they have a massive sacrifice to their cargo space and fitting cargo expanders isnt an option as it negates the very thing tranpsort ships are meant to be good at.
In order to get large quantities of cargo from A to B you had to do more runs in a blockade runner to make up for its crap cargo space, thus putting your ship at greater risk. Risk = reward.
The blockade runner nerf is an unfortunate side effect of them fixing nanos BSs, but we're very much in the minority I doubt this will get much attention from the devs.
GEPT opens its doors! |
Kim Brennan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.23 00:24:00 -
[50]
What? No! Un-gimp my Prowler please!
I agree with the majority, an useful Transport Ship skill bonus for the BRs would be enough, so I might even train it higher than 1.
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Maeltstome
Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 00:42:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Olea Avenger My prowler takes far to long to warp now. It used to be only the fastest of inties could lock me before I entered warp.
So how exactly are you supposed to be caught at all? If you could really warp that fast, and with the implimentation of warp to 0 (a MASSIVE mistake imo, it killed solo and small gang PVP) basically means you'd be untouchable.
Perhaps there's a reason blockade runners aren't that fast anymore.
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Maeltstome
Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 00:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: zevex "Spacial Distortion Technology lowers your signature radius by 17.5% per level."
With this, if you were to train the Transport skill to lvl 4, you would be as hard to lock as interceptors are.
I dread to think this will actually take place. Carebear's owning up eve ftl.
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Arn'taltsgreat
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Posted - 2007.03.23 02:09:00 -
[53]
funny, me and a friend was just talking about thsi today, though both of us came to the conclusion that bubbles should have a warp scram strength instead o just stopin gwarp altogether, viable since the expander nerf imo.
BR bonus's are useless atm, and has been stated training up past 1 makes no sense.
Trying to run a blockade ( since when is 2 men a blockade? ) in one right now is suicide, or damn near it, i wouldnt mind if it was changed to give at least a chance to get by, its the sole function of the class :)
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Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.23 02:14:00 -
[54]
Quote:
B) Give us a reason to train Transport Ships to level 5, just as every skill should have a reason. Amarr DST: +10% to all armor resistances per level, +10% armor amount per level Amarr BR: +1 warp strength per level, -10% inertia per level Caldari DST: +10% to all shield resists per level, -10% to ECM Pulse duration, and cap usage per level Caldari BR: +1 warp strength per level, -10% to ECM Pulse duration and cap usage Gallente DST: +5% to all armor resistances per level, -10% to armor repairer duration and cap usage per level Gallente BR: +1 warp strength per level, -10% sig radius per level Minmatar DST: +10% to all shield resists per level, -10% to shield booster duration and cap usage Minmatar BR: +1 warp strength per level, +15% speed per level
Read this part again.. I really like this.
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Sun Win
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.03.23 02:17:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Flesh Eater Are you sure? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the new inertia stabilisers give more of an agility bonus than the nanofibers before this latest patch? (eg a local hull istab gives 20% bonus, while the old local hull nano gave only 15%?)
Reduced mass was also improved agility though. So you actually got 2x agility bonuses. A flat out agility bonus and then a secret agility bonus thanks to the mass reduction.
New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
DiseL
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Posted - 2007.03.23 06:10:00 -
[56]
If only I could pull up the anchor on my Viator that that last patch dropped :(
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.03.23 07:50:00 -
[57]
Definitely agreed, these ships have been hit hard by the nerfs, and it was completely undeserved.
Please give them better agility to compensate, or an agility bonus with the Transport Ships skill. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
TerrorWOLF
J.H.E.N.R Pure.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 08:16:00 -
[58]
Sad but true blockade runners arent that anymore. The name belongs now to carriers now. And for empire move frigters, a fully expanded transport isnt faster then a frighter has lot less crgo space and can still be more easely killed then a frigher.
May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.23 15:30:00 -
[59]
Giving actually useful boni from the transport ships skill seems the best solution for that problem to me.
Although not as extreme ones as suggested.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.23 15:35:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 23/03/2007 15:31:32 LOL, i'm just pointing out what REALLY happens, not what a description on a ship says. YES, in the advanced tier 3 "blockade runners" you can get thru NPC pirates, which is what the description meant. BLOCKADE RUNNING IN THE "EVE UNIVERSE" not in the pvp world. You can get thru .1-.4 pretty well i bet, but no one in their right mind heads out to 0.0 without a scout or in VERY friendly territory. "BLOCKADE RUNNERS" have to be faster, and nimble, and with some extra cargo room.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_runner
Wiki, mentions the Millennium Falcon in it's text lol, but it is a PERFECT example. FAST and TOUGH as hell, but not the biggest cargo ship. And it was armed to the hilt. Get yourself a different ship if you want to get away from gate camps, a hauler is NOT, and I repeat, NOT, a blockade runner in the pvp world. (Just in the PvE world, like the description says, and you so nicely pointed out.)
So like i said earlier, and in the words of the kindergarten cop, "STOP WHINING!"
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Dynast
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Posted - 2007.03.23 16:55:00 -
[61]
Normal industrials get by NPC's in 0.0 just fine, even when ABing from 15k; the claim that avoiding NPC pirates at gates is the purpose for Blockade Runners ships is patently false. For someone who has a 'deep space' corp tag, you seem awfully.. unknowledgeable.. about how long it takes rats to agg. Not to mention how often they're 20k+ from the gate.
Blockade Runners pre-patch were fine; sensor boosted ships and intys could tag them if they were quick on the trigger, and with fast accelleration and top speeds with MWD active there was at least a fighting chance of making it back to the gate. There was no surety, but you actually had a chance of getting by people. As they are now, ships with no targeting boost and crappy scan resolution can lock and scram Blockade Runners before they warp; this is bogus.
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Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2007.03.23 17:01:00 -
[62]
Wow, I wasted a month to get into my Prorator and now it's pretty much useless. Farking great.
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 17:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 23/03/2007 15:31:32 LOL, i'm just pointing out what REALLY happens, not what a description on a ship says. YES, in the advanced tier 3 "blockade runners" you can get thru NPC pirates, which is what the description meant. BLOCKADE RUNNING IN THE "EVE UNIVERSE" not in the pvp world. You can get thru .1-.4 pretty well i bet, but no one in their right mind heads out to 0.0 without a scout or in VERY friendly territory. "BLOCKADE RUNNERS" have to be faster, and nimble, and with some extra cargo room.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_runner
Wiki, mentions the Millennium Falcon in it's text lol, but it is a PERFECT example. FAST and TOUGH as hell, but not the biggest cargo ship. And it was armed to the hilt. Get yourself a different ship if you want to get away from gate camps, a hauler is NOT, and I repeat, NOT, a blockade runner in the pvp world. (Just in the PvE world, like the description says, and you so nicely pointed out.)
So like i said earlier, and in the words of the kindergarten cop, "STOP WHINING!"
We'r not playing the wonderful game of wiki now are we and i see no millenium falcons in game.
And for trying to lecture me on pvp , just because this char uses a blockade runner and produces things doesn't mean i don't have any idea of pvp, u do know that u can have more then one char right ?
As siad before, the BR was working just fine before patch and the devs have not made any statement that they where used in a way they wasn't designed for so a fair asumption would be that they worked as intended, now this patch that changed nanos and other speed mods changed how the BR could be used hence broke them unless we can get a Dev to actualy say that they where supposed to be nerfed aswell and in that case it's another discussion of why they felt that the BR needed a nerf to begin with and get them to clarify how they see it beeing usefull.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.23 17:24:00 -
[64]
Megan
What people are saying is that these ships are now unable to fill the role they were designed for. As you described so well..a blockade runner should have:
1) Speed. That'll be the bonus to speed from indy skill then.
2)Survivability. Well, blow me..if they don't have boosted shield resists
3)Reduced Cargo. look at that would you, they don't hold as much as your normal indy, because they have been OPTIMISED FOR SPEED.
So,what do you think this is for? Flying round belts in lowsec? Hauling in empire? I doubt very much that anyone who has ever used one of these ships had NPCs in mind somehow.
I've personally found an alternative now, but for the indutrialists who use these things for mins and logistics, there is no other realistic way to get stuff from empire to 0.0 except carriers.
I'm not saying they should be overpowered, but you had a chance in one before, now you don't, so they are down with the T2 transports as pretty much defunct.
Besides, less people will head out of safe space in the conventional way if there is no chance, however small, of surviving. That means less targets for camps and pirates.
Essentially this just removes another element of diversity from the game, surely you agree that's not a good thing, as that is what makes eve so great.
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Wardo21
The Arcanum
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Posted - 2007.03.23 17:28:00 -
[65]
Unintended consequences...
In a system so complex, changing one little thing means a ripple effect on other segments of the system. Some of these ripples may be quite unsettling to the other segments, some will barely be noticed.
Where were your comments about the nano-battleships needing nerfed, knowing that a nerf was in process, when your ship required these same modules stacked to function properly? So nano-whatevers were overpowered, but my nano-transport isn't?
The OP has some valid issues, and various posts have presented decent options to correct the new problems with BRs. In the long run, a BR should be capable of getting through blockades (gate camps) without fitting a whole rack of agility/mass/speed mods.
I would like to politely ask that unless you pointed out how balancing the nano-BS was also going to totally invalidate your ship, please refrain from complaining about the nano-nerf, because it needed to be done. Perhaps not so suddenly, and perhaps not in that particular way, but the problem needed fixing.
Perhaps the nano-nerf didn't change enough. I will propose again that some mods need to be fitting limited to one per ship, and others activation limited to one per target, to prevent current and future abusive combinations of modules.
Wardo21
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.23 21:41:00 -
[66]
For the record, as has been stated, no they were not previously overpowered, and yes, of course it is an unforseen consequence. I'm sure it's something that will get looked into.
If you are suggesting that because someone didn't have an opinion about the nano'd BS that they are not allowed, on your apparent 'authority' to have an opinion on this, then that's ridiculous.
So people overlooked the fact the nerf may affect their ships, it happens. Not everyone *****s the forums or bothers to read the patch notes..therefore they have an invalid opinion?
I normally avoid these forums like the plague, due to the apparent impossibility for someone to make a reasonable point without being flamed, but I happen to fly these ships so thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. If I flew or fought nano'd BS's pre patch maybe I would of then too, but I don't.
We all pay the subs, so we are all entitled to a say. If you don't like the thread or topic, I 'politlely' ask you don't feel the need to post in it with an apparent superiority complex.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.23 22:27:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 23/03/2007 22:35:41 A ship, designed for hauling, like a freighter or hauler, should in NO WAY be able to "blockade run." Oh and whomever said the descriptions aren't part of the "eve universe", you are totally wrong. There is nothing wrong with this class of ship, and in no way should it ever be allowed to get thru a competent gate camp. If you want the ability to do such things invest in some other ship with some nice cargo room and more then ONE, i repeat, ONE turret hardpoint. (Not to mention zero drone space) Completely changing a class of ships, that work exactly as they should, is stupid and ignorant. They are good at hauling, and getting away from a tackler. Expecting a ship that's mass is barely less then a rupture, to align and warp in less then 7 seconds is unrealistic.
A transport should not be able to outperform a combat ship, EVER.
I have criticized alot so here is my take on what a real "blockade runner" should be.
Cerberus: Lows 3x t2 inertial stab 1x t2 expanded cargo holds
mids 1x MWD (shield tank insert here)
Rigs 2x cargo optimization t1 (Which is around 1100 m3 total) or 2x cargo optimization t2 (Which is around 1200 m3 total)
Get rid of one of those t2 stabilizers and then you have a nice 1500 m3 with the t2 rigs.
After that equip it for combat. You will have a little over 1000 m^3 of cargo, a hell of a shield tank to protect your butt, and some weapons to boot. All the while most frigates and cruisers will think twice before engaging a Cerberus. (HAC)
Is that proposal so hard to accept? It's not the biggest hauling capacity, but it's tough as nails, and has some weapons. See the point I've been getting at here? Anyone? If you are really dedicated to "blockade running" something like this set-up, with a dedicated amount of isk is what I would do.
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.23 23:11:00 -
[68]
Im sorry but from where im standing ur confusing a blockade runner with a blockade killer, u say that they are good at hauling and getting away from tacklers so u obviously didn't get the issue here.
3750 caro to begin with isn't realy good at hauling and the main issue that came with this patch is that they can't run from tacklers any more, they used to be able to get away from a single tackler perhaps even 2 of them if u where lucky.
The change to the align time will cause this, epire gankers will be able to kill u with ease while u align, low sec gangkers will most defenatly kill u before u align, 0.0 lone friggs will catch u with ease.
All this was avoidable in most cases with the pre-patch BR, and as u said it shuld not be able to get past a competent camp nor was it ever able to, a half asleap camp with some luck yes but not an alert camp.
But the other things i stated was in most cases avoided somply due to the align speed, that's what made the ship class usefull to begin with, smaller sized cargo which allowed u to transport smaller amounts of expensive cargo with a fairly small risk of death, id say that fits my view of what a blockade runner shuld be able to do.
I could find u kilmails of BR's that got killed pre-patch with nanos by smaller gangs / camps aswell so they where not an i-win button in any way but they did give u an edge if u played it smart.
And besides, if the Dev's wanted there version of a blockade runner to be anything like yours don't u think they would have given it better abilitys to fight to begin with instead of just making it what u see as another hauler.
Still hoping for a Dev to make a comment on the issue and give there version of what they think, that might actualy save us alot of discussion back and forth about how the ship is ment to be used to begin with.
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General Meridus
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.23 23:31:00 -
[69]
Edited by: General Meridus on 23/03/2007 23:31:07 Megan Maynard, that ship you designed would not survive a gate camp. One battle ship with heavy nos, and you're gone. Say goodbye. A solo ship of any type will not be able to fight their way out of a standard 0.0 camp. You can evade such camps, but there are no solo pwn mobiles in the game.
I remind you that a blockade runners are not able to carry enough minerals to produce even a tech-I Caracal. (And yes I know about mineral compression, but that doesn't do much good for traders does it?) If I want to move high end, in small amounts there are other options. Force recons, or covert ops come to mind.
I believe the game designers do want a hauler of some sort to be able to traverse 0.0. That is why they are called Blockade Runners. Your statement of no way should there be such a ship, goes against what the Devs have been saying about 0.0 ad nauseam, since the beginning of the game.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.24 00:31:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 00:31:21 You all act as if huge amounts of stuff needs to be moved in a blockade runner. If you have that much important stuff, get a carrier and jump drive the stuff. Why would you haul that much crap the traditional way?
And no kidding that ship wouldn't survive a BS, a BS is a whole different higher class. However, a tackling frigate would easily be taken down.
This is purely a case of people whining and nothing else. It's EXACTLY like the nanophoon pilots. You can't have a huge cargo hold, a great turning rate, tank, AND be super resistant to warp scrambling. (Just like nanophoons can't be super fast, agile, and light weight anymore.) You have to sacrifice something for something else. You have to give a little and take a little, you can't have the whole damn cake.
My idea was just that, an idea. The complaint's are for haulers that are good at getting out of a scrap, but apparently that isn't good enough, they have to be able to out run inty's, out turn a combat cruiser, and still have 3000 m3 of cargo space all the while busting thru gate camps. I'm sorry, but I ain't buying that. Get some back up, jump drive if you have ALOT of stuff (There are plenty of pilots that work for hire.), or use a smaller more nimble ship.
Good discussion btw, i like a good back and forth topic. :-D
I wonder if the new ORE capital will help this cause by providing a jump drive mobile refinery, there fore getting rid of hauling minerals all together.
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General Meridus
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.24 00:49:00 -
[71]
Well Megan Maynard, perhaps you know more than I.
That being the case, I have 4 million units of Mex, in what is now the middle of IAC space. They claim to operate under NRDS. However, I don't think they would take kindly to a capital ship jumping into the middle of it. If you would be willing to transport the Mex. to Agil, I will then sell it to you at 10isk per unit.
You would prove us all wrong, and make a fine profit to boot. Send me an Eve mail, and I will gladly set up a contract.
General Meridus.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.24 00:53:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 00:49:57 Please contact our CEO Jascal or Captain Kubiak if you wish to work something out. :-D However I would hit up IAC if I were you.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.03.24 01:18:00 -
[73]
So Megan do you suggest CCP just remove the blockade runner ship type from the game? Because atm they have no role what so ever and you seems hell bent on not allowing them to get one. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Istaklain
Diamond Sword Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.24 01:22:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
This is purely a case of people whining and nothing else. It's EXACTLY like the nanophoon pilots. You can't have a huge cargo hold, a great turning rate, tank, AND be super resistant to warp scrambling. (Just like nanophoons can't be super fast, agile, and light weight anymore.) You have to sacrifice something for something else. You have to give a little and take a little, you can't have the whole damn cake.
We have t1 industrials that move a decent amount of cargo with decent agility and speed, with a little to no tank.
Enter tech 2.
We have t2 industrials that can move a huge amount of cargo with a good tank, but have poor agility and speed. (deep space transports) Easy to catch, hard to kill.
We have t2 industrials that are fast and agile, but move a limited amount of cargo with a relatively weak tank. (blockade runners) Hard to catch but easy to kill.
Currently however, blockade runners are easy to catch and easy to kill. As they are right now battleships can lock them down before they can align. So not only are they easy to kill, they are easier to catch. So what purpose do they serve now?
Something is broken here and its not just people whining for the sake of whining.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.24 01:26:00 -
[75]
Megan have you flown a T2 transport before? No one is asking for a BR to outperform a combat ship. They were fine before, and all anyone is saying, or suggesting, are ways to make them usable as they previoulsy were.
I'm also guessing you don't know much about gate camps, based on your previous suggestion involving a cerberus.
You seem to think that having some kind of agility bonus on these ships somehow makes them invincible, if you ever used one or even ran camps you would know thats not the case at all. As has been stated over and over already, they were never an i-win for camps, any proper camp will stop one no problem.
If you don't think they are for running camps in 0.0, then what exactly are they for?
Oh wait..you already said..for evading tacklers. Where do you find tacklers? on gates, perhaps? do tacklers work alone? Not usually, and that means what? Oh yeah...a camp.
Funny thing is you are agreeing in principle about what they are for and what they should do, but then saying they shouldn't be able to do it, topped off with an example of using a command ship to fill the role of a ship already in the game designed for that purpose. Nice one.
If you really can't see that then oh well, I can't be bothered wasting time trying to explain it anymore. Buy your cerb and give it a go. It'll be an expensive lesson.
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Arric Rohr
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Posted - 2007.03.24 02:01:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 00:31:21 You all act as if huge amounts of stuff needs to be moved in a blockade runner. If you have that much important stuff, get a carrier and jump drive the stuff. Why would you haul that much crap the traditional way?
This is just insulting. "Get a carrier?" As if that is easy to do? Sheesh...
CCP says they want us to move into 0.0 space. Most of use can't just get a carrier. Any valuables we find in 0.0 need to be moved to empire to sell. Now, the only ship that was useful for that with some level of predictable safety has now been made much less useful. It does not feel like an intentional change, it feels like it was a side effect of fixing the nanophoon anomaly. So, they should fix it so these expensive, difficult to train for ships are valuable again.
AR
(btw, I just spent 30 days and many millions training for and buying one. The same patch also nerfed my myrmidon. So im testy)
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.24 03:22:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:21:43 Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:18:55 LAWL at all of that, i busted through an MC gate camp the other day, and it included a mothership.....
You can't have the whole cake people....Maybe your ships were overpowered before the patch, ever think of that?
Join a corp, plain and simple, and you will get into 0.0 eventually if it is worth a damn.
I stated to USE a carrier, as in teamwork, not fly it yourself.......
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zevex
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Posted - 2007.03.24 04:13:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:21:43 Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:18:55 LAWL at all of that, i busted through an MC gate camp the other day, and it included a mothership.....
You can't have the whole cake people....Maybe your ships were overpowered before the patch, ever think of that?
Join a corp, plain and simple, and you will get into 0.0 eventually if it is worth a damn.
I stated to USE a carrier, as in teamwork, not fly it yourself.......
If there were no need for Blockade Runners, then there would be no such ship type in the game. My main is in a rather large alliance that has 50+ capital pilots. That being said, there are still times when I need to use my Prowler to make a quick run at something.
These ships were far from overpowerd prior to the patch. All it took was 2 alert interceptor pilots that happend to be in scram range, and they had a chance at getting you. Bubble camps were a challenge as well.
As it stands now, even a cruiser has the chance to lock you before you can get into warp. And this should not be the case.
The truth of the matter is that you have no idea what you are talknig about, or at least you think you know a lot more than you actually do. CCP designed these ships to have a good chance at running thru blockades. Thus their names and their descriptions. Currently, they live up to neither.
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Emeline Cabernet
Amarr Old Farts
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Posted - 2007.03.24 04:17:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:21:43 Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:18:55 LAWL at all of that, i busted through an MC gate camp the other day, and it included a mothership.....
You can't have the whole cake people....Maybe your ships were overpowered before the patch, ever think of that?
Join a corp, plain and simple, and you will get into 0.0 eventually if it is worth a damn.
I stated to USE a carrier, as in teamwork, not fly it yourself.......
dear god WOMAN! whine much?
wow a mc camp , someone stop the press!!!!!!
the bonus on the blockaderunners isnt usefull for them at all. overpowered blockaderunners..... ............ .......... ................. ............ .................
the whole cake? you are talking about t2 haulers... did we ask for a torp launcher bonus? did we?
what did we ask for? what did we ask for? more agility because? because what? they arent doing what they are supposed to be doing?
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.24 04:56:00 -
[80]
My stabber turns and warps in 7 seconds, without any inertial stabs. So do I think this guy is whining about his hauler doing the same with mods? YES. That is impressive.
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General Meridus
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.24 05:23:00 -
[81]
I believe we should all let Megan Maynard ramble on. Clearly her 5 month character rules, and her wisdom is that of a god. As I know she does not fly at BR, I wonder why she cares so much.
As to the OP, I would hope that the devs will visit the situation. I don't think this result was intended. One of the reasons 0.0 areas like Syndicate exist with npc stations and all, was to allow newer types, or smaller independant corps into 0.0. In addition there is that small, but very valuable group of trader players, who bring needed valuables into empty space.
Perhaps just a mass reduction ship skill bonus would solve the problem.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.24 09:09:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Acinonyx Jubatus on 24/03/2007 09:17:12 7 seconds? Wow... it only takes me like 2-3 for my prowler to get out and enter warp, more if I'm moving in any other direction.
With the last patch I lost a nice chunk of its speed though, used to go 2500, now it goes a fair bit less, but still usable due to the alignment.
*has evasive and spaceship command 5 so that may be part of the aligning speed he has*
No rigs, and I think the stabs are only betas or something.
Oh, guess I should include this... heh.
I'd love those bonuses to the speed/agility/resists. Stuff like that, so far I have no real reason to train beyond transport ship 1, which is kinda sad seeing as I spent 30 or so mill on on the book, I believe. Also my poor mastodon lies dormant in my hangar collecting dust as it's somewhat useless at the time being. Waste of 42 mill that was it feels.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.24 11:26:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
You can't have the whole cake people....Maybe your ships were overpowered before the patch, ever think of that?
Join a corp, plain and simple, and you will get into 0.0 eventually if it is worth a damn.
I stated to USE a carrier, as in teamwork, not fly it yourself.......
hahahahahahah..priceless. Well done megan, you have shown you excel at being able to go through other threads, pick out the most common response to noobs by vets and then apply it to a subject you have no idea about.
Comprehension is obviously not your thing, nor is processing information, as you have clearly not read ANYTHING in this topic.
Yeah everyone flies BRs in empire in noob corps, and none of us have 0.0 experience.
I really hope you are trolling because if not you are just making yourself look very, very stupid.
I like the way you have also avoided answering my questions in every subsequent post..is that because you can't answer?
I'm sorry, I've tried to keep it civil, but it really seems to me you're just trying to get yourself some kudos by flaming what you see as a 'whine' thread.
haha well done, you are really, really cool. No, really..
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Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.24 11:52:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 23/03/2007 22:35:41 A ship, designed for hauling, like a freighter or hauler, should in NO WAY be able to "blockade run." Oh and whomever said the descriptions aren't part of the "eve universe", you are totally wrong. There is nothing wrong with this class of ship, and in no way should it ever be allowed to get thru a competent gate camp. If you want the ability to do such things invest in some other ship with some nice cargo room and more then ONE, i repeat, ONE turret hardpoint. (Not to mention zero drone space) Completely changing a class of ships, that work exactly as they should, is stupid and ignorant. They are good at hauling, and getting away from a tackler. Expecting a ship that's mass is barely less then a rupture, to align and warp in less then 7 seconds is unrealistic.
A transport should not be able to outperform a combat ship, EVER.
I have criticized alot so here is my take on what a real "blockade runner" should be.
Cerberus: Lows 3x t2 inertial stab 1x t2 expanded cargo holds
mids 1x MWD (shield tank insert here)
Rigs 2x cargo optimization t1 (Which is around 1100 m3 total) or 2x cargo optimization t2 (Which is around 1200 m3 total)
Get rid of one of those t2 stabilizers and then you have a nice 1500 m3 with the t2 rigs.
After that equip it for combat. You will have a little over 1000 m^3 of cargo, a hell of a shield tank to protect your butt, and some weapons to boot. All the while most frigates and cruisers will think twice before engaging a Cerberus. (HAC)
Is that proposal so hard to accept? It's not the biggest hauling capacity, but it's tough as nails, and has some weapons. See the point I've been getting at here? Anyone? If you are really dedicated to "blockade running" something like this set-up, with a dedicated amount of isk is what I would do.
Well what role do you think the Viator/Crane/Prowler are supposed to play then? (I've used the ship names rather than the title CCP gave them since it seems to push your rant button.) We have a small-capacity, fast hauler with resistance to warp jammers. What role do you suggest for such a ship class?
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Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.24 12:02:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Acinonyx Jubatus Edited by: Acinonyx Jubatus on 24/03/2007 09:17:12 7 seconds? Wow... it only takes me like 2-3 for my prowler to get out and enter warp, more if I'm moving in any other direction.
With the last patch I lost a nice chunk of its speed though, used to go 2500, now it goes a fair bit less, but still usable due to the alignment.
*has evasive and spaceship command 5 so that may be part of the aligning speed he has*
No rigs, and I think the stabs are only betas or something.
Oh, guess I should include this... heh.
I'd love those bonuses to the speed/agility/resists. Stuff like that, so far I have no real reason to train beyond transport ship 1, which is kinda sad seeing as I spent 30 or so mill on on the book, I believe. Also my poor mastodon lies dormant in my hangar collecting dust as it's somewhat useless at the time being. Waste of 42 mill that was it feels.
Exactly. Kinetic armour resist...? Who cares if I last a few extra seconds before being popped (in the unlikely event that someone's using kinetic ammo)?
If the Transports skill gave something like:
+3% agility -3% mass reduction
Per Transports skill level
then it'd be worth training. Level 4 would be equivalent to having a pre-nerf Inertial Stabiliser (just a basic one, not a fancy named one, mind you) fitted. That's like having the extra low slot many here have been saying is needed. Come to think of it, I'd also advocate lowering the base Warp Strength to 0.5 plus 0.5 per skill level, so that a pilot who take Transports Skill to 5 would be a real E&E specialist, with the equivalent of 3 WCS fitted.
A 27M ISK skillbook ought to merit something more useful than shield resists...
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DaMaster Architect
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Posted - 2007.03.24 12:08:00 -
[86]
/signed.
In my opinion, it's just ridiculous that these 50mil ships (ship+skill) are worth just as much as an 0.5mil industrial (one with same size of cargohold). How long will it take ccp to realise that these BR bonusses don't do anything else but postponing your death by a few seconds? Ofcourse, I agree the BRs don't have to outperform combat ships by default, but at least, give them a chance. As it is now, a noobship at a sologatecamp can outperform a 50mil blockaderunner.
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.03.24 20:01:00 -
[87]
A pre-patch Viator could warp almost as fast an an Inty, now it's a slow cruiser with the same setup __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Kerin Blackhand
Valehaven Ltd
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Posted - 2007.03.24 21:36:00 -
[88]
Has anyone tried out a pair of local hull istabs in the lows and a pair of mass reduction rigs to see what that does? I'm wondering if that'd bring a blockade runner back up to pre-nerf capabilities...
--------
Originally by: Brer Lapin Hi I'm Scissors,
Paper's fine but rock needs a nerf.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.03.24 22:48:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kerin Blackhand Has anyone tried out a pair of local hull istabs in the lows and a pair of mass reduction rigs to see what that does? I'm wondering if that'd bring a blockade runner back up to pre-nerf capabilities...
I have tried. As far as a can tell, nanos are your best bet for reducing time into warp. (At least, on a Crane) but it's still not really a patch on 'how it was before'.
Actually, I've had a thought. How about if they could fit a covert cloak? As it stands, I've done 'hauling' in a recon. If you try, with a pilgrim, you can get 1000m3, which is a far better blockade runner than an actual blockade runner.
These ships are white elephants at the moment. Especially in this era of carriers and freighters. OK, so they're expensive high skill ships, but ... well why would anyone train blockade runners in the meantime?
I think they need a schtick to make them good in the current environment. Things that spring to mind, are covert cloaking or bubble immunity. I'd settle for a 'decent' mass and agility though - oh, and PLEASE give the Crane a little more P/G - 150 with skills really isn't enough, when a 10mn MWD uses 150, and a 10mn MWD II uses 165.
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Wu Xiang
Prospero Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.03.25 00:11:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 23/03/2007 15:31:32 LOL, i'm just pointing out what REALLY happens, not what a description on a ship says. YES, in the advanced tier 3 "blockade runners" you can get thru NPC pirates, which is what the description meant. BLOCKADE RUNNING IN THE "EVE UNIVERSE" not in the pvp world. You can get thru .1-.4 pretty well i bet, but no one in their right mind heads out to 0.0 without a scout or in VERY friendly territory. "BLOCKADE RUNNERS" have to be faster, and nimble, and with some extra cargo room.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_runner
Wiki, mentions the Millennium Falcon in it's text lol, but it is a PERFECT example. FAST and TOUGH as hell, but not the biggest cargo ship. And it was armed to the hilt. Get yourself a different ship if you want to get away from gate camps, a hauler is NOT, and I repeat, NOT, a blockade runner in the pvp world. (Just in the PvE world, like the description says, and you so nicely pointed out.)
So like i said earlier, and in the words of the kindergarten cop, "STOP WHINING!"
Don't be thick.
You're comparing Eve to what Wiki and Star Wars says, i fail to see what either have to do with Eve.
Blockade runners worked as intended before patch, hard to catch but not even close to impossible. Now they're almost not worth flying.
You obviously don't fly them so why are you even in this thread?
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.03.25 06:42:00 -
[91]
I guess this will promote more capital ships being used for hauling jobs. |
Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.25 13:29:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger I guess this will promote more capital ships being used for hauling jobs.
Im sure it will, sadly u can't jump them in to high-sec to avoid the gankers there so still doesn't solve the issue.
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Sorela
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.03.26 01:20:00 -
[93]
This clearly needs to be fixed. I would think the gate campers would be the first people to want to encourage blockade breaking. If it's too dangerous then nobody will bother and you'll never have a chance to catch a big haul.
Whatever anyone tries to say though the clear point of this thread is to get CCP to comment on whether this was an accidental nerf that nobody had really thought out. So even if you like the nerf you don't really have any right whining about people trying to get feedback.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.26 11:06:00 -
[94]
Originally by: James Lyrus I have tried. As far as a can tell, nanos are your best bet for reducing time into warp. (At least, on a Crane) but it's still not really a patch on 'how it was before'.
Instabs give normally a good deal bigger agility boost than nanos. Do you have perhaps agility rigs on it?
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Creeco
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Posted - 2007.03.26 16:00:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Creeco on 26/03/2007 15:59:13 /signed
my crane is ridiculously slow to go into warp and it's a laugh cause the t1 version of this ship can hold more and has WAYYY more slots. give this ship a little more PG even... can't even fit a mwd without a RCU. i don't mind going slow THAT much but 3 midslots for something that's supposed to survive a blockade (gate camp)? not much fun.
being able to go into warp a little faster for a ship that is " [the fastest type of industrial available. Utilizing sturdy but lightweight construction materials and sacrificing some cargo space, these haulers are able to reach speeds greater than those of a cruiser while withstanding heavy fire] would be nice...
tankability sort of sucks due to not enough slots and grid speed sucks but workable if you could fit a mwd without grid upgrades (ruins tank more for armor tankers)
slow to warp... sitting duck in a "blockade"
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.03.26 19:50:00 -
[96]
Edited by: NIkis on 26/03/2007 19:49:20 BUMP BUMP BUMP as this thread didnt recieve any semblance of answer yet, only some irrational rants from Megan , hey Megan care to check your history with naval blockades ? Blockade runners ARE NOT fighting ships, they are exactly HAULERS ! That should clear the thick fog around your head
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.03.26 21:33:00 -
[97]
I was a bit skeptical at first about this issue, I thought it wasn't an issue, but after revelations I fitted a Prowler with:
Inertial Stabiliser (local version) Nanofiber Structure (t2 version) Agility Rigging (t1 version) Velocity Rigging (t1 version)
Still, upon jumping into a low-sec camp (carrier,some battleship and a drake) I was tackled by the drake almost as soon as I uncloaked, and the object I chose to warp to was right in front of my ship.
Good thing I could still MWD away at 3km/s to escape, if they had a Huginn I would have been dead meat though.
PS: Just wanna clarify that all my phat t2 lewtz and megac1tez arrived in Jita safely - BOOST OUTLAWS | |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.26 21:56:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Aramendel on 26/03/2007 21:54:26 One should note though that many lowsec gate camps nowadays use very specialized fastlock setups with other ships remote boosting your primary tacklers (in this case prolly the carrier the drake) so they can achieve instalocks.
Not really your average gatecamp, especially in 0.0 since those rely more on dictors. And in good ones of these lowsec camps (read: those with an huggin) even a blockade runner *should* die. Because that would be pretty much the worst of the worst scenario and BRs should be hard to catch, but not impossible to catch.
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.03.26 22:06:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 26/03/2007 21:54:26 One should note though that many lowsec gate camps nowadays use very specialized fastlock setups with other ships remote boosting your primary tacklers (in this case prolly the carrier the drake) so they can achieve instalocks.
Not really your average gatecamp, especially in 0.0 since those rely more on dictors. And in good ones of these lowsec camps (read: those with an huggin) even a blockade runner *should* die. Because that would be pretty much the worst of the worst scenario and BRs should be hard to catch, but not impossible to catch.
This is true, but before batch it would have warped instantly. Before patch even interceptors had difficulty catching if my chosen warp destination was dead-ahead! - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.03.26 23:46:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Awox
This is true, but before batch it would have warped instantly. Before patch even interceptors had difficulty catching if my chosen warp destination was dead-ahead!
That is kinda how it's supposed to work, hard to catch for lone pilotes or a small gang of 2-3, an organised gatecamp and u shuld die but untill u run in to that u shuld have atleast 60-80% chance of survival otherwise the ship class is what it's become now, totaly useless.
And only way i see that survival rate happening is to alow for the fast align to warp.
So as been said, make the skill usefull by making it an agility / mass reduction / sig radious reduction / other helpfull bonus instead of the armor tanking which is useless anyway on a ship that's used to run away from combat for survival.
ps. Still hoping for a Devs view on the ship class and if this is something that will be looked in to atleast.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.03.27 19:58:00 -
[101]
Originally by: NIkis Edited by: NIkis on 26/03/2007 19:49:20 BUMP BUMP BUMP as this thread didnt recieve any semblance of answer yet,
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:27:00 -
[102]
Bump
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Arric Rohr
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:32:00 -
[103]
I wish this thread would get some sort of notice or answer. These take a lot of time and effort to get in to, and to have that effort invalidated by a patch that was intended to fix something else is a shame. It would be appreciated if even a simple "we know it, we like it, live with it" post was made to complete the discussion.
AR
(PS, this is just a whinier version of 'BUMP')
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Karash Amerius
Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.03.28 20:36:00 -
[104]
I have an Alt that flys a Caldari Blockade Runner (Crane) and to be very honest, the transport ability is near useless. 10% bonus to booster does nothing for tanking a ship that has that amount of shields and capacitor.
Merc Blog |
Brutal1ty
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Posted - 2007.03.29 19:53:00 -
[105]
A shield or rep bonus on the tranport is totally useless considering you probably get one cycle in before you are dead. My Viator and Octator have become relagated to only running the blockaded known as "Jita 4-4"
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.02 08:37:00 -
[106]
Edited by: NIkis on 02/04/2007 08:37:44 BUMP BUMP BUMP !!!
Don't let this thread die, blockade runners are way too gimped now
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.02 09:10:00 -
[107]
GIEV SPEED!1!1!
yeah they got hit, very badly :(
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.04.02 09:28:00 -
[108]
Bolocade runners are indeed no more blocade runners, as they are nowdays so slow to warp (and I do not fit expanders on my blocade runner if you get the drift ) that even cruisers are able to bump them before you get to warp. Not every time, but then again you dont use blocade runners if you do not really need to get there with cargo usually.
Ahh well - I quess i'm just a bit annoyed that my entering into warp time is now approx 350 % longer than it used to be before nerf. Carriers can be used for 0.0 trasport (and were used even before nerf) for any valuable cargo and low sec gate camps can be sniffed out with those poor alt scouts in shuttles, but that does not solve the problem of 'blocade' runner thats no longer able to run.
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Captain Crimson
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Posted - 2007.04.02 10:49:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:21:43 Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/03/2007 03:18:55 LAWL at all of that, i busted through an MC gate camp the other day, and it included a mothership.....
You can't have the whole cake people....Maybe your ships were overpowered before the patch, ever think of that?
Join a corp, plain and simple, and you will get into 0.0 eventually if it is worth a damn.
I stated to USE a carrier, as in teamwork, not fly it yourself.......
Complete noob.
Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
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Sarah Kano
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Posted - 2007.04.02 11:23:00 -
[110]
Here's my bump:
This issue needs fixing immediately because it seriously affects more aspects of gameplay. Only idiots will now use a blocaderunner to haul their tradegoods. This ship is simply not even capable to get past the privateer blocade in jita now, why would you even consider using it for lowsec or 0.0 hauling then? As a consequence people will only use a carrier for high value transports (my alt is doing that for sure). Which in turn will cause the pirates to run dry on juicy targets.
Just my 2 cents
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.02 11:33:00 -
[111]
Redo the bonuses for transport ship skill, make it +7.5% agility and +1 warp strength per level, then i'll reconsider flying them again.
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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RandomLaofer
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Posted - 2007.04.02 12:07:00 -
[112]
Does anyone who can change anything actually read these forums regularly? Maybe they do - well if they do, then I sure hope this is fixed also.
To the nay sayers, if you imagine a world where people live in space, with ships made for various tasks, it is quite logical that races would develop a blockade runner for running blockades. They would probably think to themselves: "boy, I'm getting really irritated with using my cerberus for hauling stuff, I'm going to design a ship that is specifically designed for the job - and I'll make it better than a ship "not" designed for hauling".
To argue that the BRs don't need any tweaking because a cerberus is better has nice comedy value.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.04.02 12:48:00 -
[113]
I am pretty sure that the dev team do, in fact, read these forums. However, have learned from repeated flames, "OMG DEV LOOK" threads, and assorted other forms of negative feedback, that doing so isn't something to be done lightly. Lets face it, if you're 'doing balance' almost anything you change is going to be hated by some people :).
The real question is how good at running blockades, should a blockade runner _actually_ be.
Personally, I feel it should be about the fastest and safest way to move 4000 (ish) m3 of cargo there is.
In terms of hauling at the moment, what you have is: Interceptor - extremely fast, not much cargo. (100-200m3 IIRC). Bubble might stop 'em, but they're fast enough to make a break for it. Covert ops - virtually unstoppable, 200-300m3 Recon ship - virtually unstoppable, slower than a covops, but have 'Ewar defence' and a little firepower. Pilgrim can do up to 1000m3 with a full rack of expanders. HAC/Cruiser with speed mods - MWD, good agility and tank. Stoppable, but ... well pretty much requires a bubble. Blockade runner - T2 resists (not HAC), cruiser sized tank. 2 pts of built in stabs. Short on slots, but not bad on agility. T1 hauler - tinfoil with a large sig, but usually with plenty of lows to make 'em faster. Deep Space Transport - Tough tank, HAC resists. Fairly heavy, and a high max cargo capacity (although probably trades off on tanking there). More lowslots = more warp core stabs or speed mods. Freighter. Huge. Takes a while to kill, but pretty much can be killed by a 'ceptor, given time. The tool for the job if you have an escort. Carrier. 70k ish, can jumpdrive to where it's needed. Not quite invulnerable whilst doing so, but might as well be. Fairly big price tag, and long training time. Dreadnought. 50k ish, but in a contiguous block. Also fairly big pricetag and training time.
Now, into those, the Blockade runner seems ... well a little lost really. It's too much 'middle ground' in terms of speed and agility, which basically means it's warpcore stability doesn't help - if you fill the lows on a blockade runner, you still do less well than stuffing the lows of a DST with stabs. It's a bit faster when talking MWD/istab/nano, but ... well, it's not really fast/agile enough to carry that trick off.
It's also not really tough enough, - it's resists and cap are good for a short term tank, to 'soak' being sniped, but... well it still needs more there too IMO.
There's a few suggestions here so far, from the simply 'just make 'em a bit more fast/agile' to the 'covops cloaking' or 'bubble immunity'. Perhaps even ewar immune, e.g. can't be scrambled?
Oh, and the Crane still needs 20 more grid.
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.04.02 21:10:00 -
[114]
New patch comming up and no fix for this, nothing about it on known issues and no feedback here, atm im simply looking for a standpoint from the devs on this, intended or not, will be looked in to or not, the BR is filling it's role or not.
To me with alot of others this is an issue and it would be nice to get some response to it and as i have said before a "correct" view on how the BR is supposed to work, after that it's easyer to form ideas and sollutions to the issue if the devs agree it is an issue to begin with.
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Aakron
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.02 21:45:00 -
[115]
Let them use covert cloaks ...(If it hasnt been suggested) ---
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Col Angus
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Posted - 2007.04.02 22:13:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Aakron Let them use covert cloaks ...(If it hasnt been suggested)
This would be the coolest thing in the history of history.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.02 23:39:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Aramendel on 02/04/2007 23:36:52
Originally by: James Lyrus There's a few suggestions here so far, from the simply 'just make 'em a bit more fast/agile' to the 'covops cloaking' or 'bubble immunity'. Perhaps even ewar immune, e.g. can't be scrambled?
Cov ops and e-war immunity would be WAY too much. Cov ops for kinda obvious reasons and ewar immunity means also no web, which would make it effeciently invulnerable, even to bubblecamps.
The most sensible suggestion I have seen (although with unsensible high boni) was changing the transport ship skill effects.
Prepatch a viator with 3 LH istabs and 2 t1 agility rigs got a total inertia reduction (inculding the effects of mass reduction) to 30% of it's unfitted inertia. Now with 3 LH istabs and 2 t1 mass rigs it gets 43% of its unfitted inertia.
The transport ship skill could give blockade runners -5% inertia and +5% MWD effeciency per lvl, that would give it maxxed 32.3% of it's unfitted preskill inertia. Not as low as before, but still WELL below what it got before rigs and I haven't seen too many people whining about them then. And actually an higher MWD speed than it had before the latest patch.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.03 20:02:00 -
[118]
Originally by: aquontium We could do a dual petition. Change em to 'Blockade Walkers' or actually make them run
blockade crawlers ;P
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.03 22:42:00 -
[119]
Daily bump0rz on duty ! Yea blockade crawlers would be fitting for what they are at the mo
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.03 23:11:00 -
[120]
tbh i say good.
after the 0km warp thing pirates have to resort to 0.0 bubbling or bump tactics to get their targets.
imo the problem is that blockade runners have lost their purpose.. they were designed to go at high speeds between gates, but with 0km warps it has made them obselete since speed isnt a requirment to jump.
if you all remember people used to camp on the jump out of a system rather than a jump in.. but now that 0km warps have been introduced it means they have to camp the jump in gates and use ever-more difficult tactics.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.04 05:53:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Tista tbh i say good.
after the 0km warp thing pirates have to resort to 0.0 bubbling or bump tactics to get their targets.
imo the problem is that blockade runners have lost their purpose.. they were designed to go at high speeds between gates, but with 0km warps it has made them obselete since speed isnt a requirment to jump.
if you all remember people used to camp on the jump out of a system rather than a jump in.. but now that 0km warps have been introduced it means they have to camp the jump in gates and use ever-more difficult tactics.
Yeah, and ccp wants to promote camping, right? IMO it's one of the least-attractive ways of playing eve and i try to resort to it as little as possible.
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2007.04.04 12:48:00 -
[122]
what about two mass reduction rigs and then istabs in the lows? Does that work nicely? I might give it a try in my prowler. ------------------- |
Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.04.04 12:55:00 -
[123]
Bump
_______________
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.04.04 13:06:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Jacque Custeau what about two mass reduction rigs and then istabs in the lows? Does that work nicely? I might give it a try in my prowler.
No, I'm afraid it doesn't really. It helps, but not nearly enough.
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Kalvor Azrael
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.04.04 15:12:00 -
[125]
I agree....make blockade runners worthy of the name again.
Kalvor Azrael Tahiri Warrior In the fight for freedom......rust never sleeps |
NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.05 16:32:00 -
[126]
BUMP BUMP BUMP
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BuyMyToasters
Caldari Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.06 01:03:00 -
[127]
Here's an off the wall idea...
A bonus to speed while cloaked. Similar to the Stealth Bombers ( another borked ship)
el oh el sig |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.06 08:22:00 -
[128]
Would hurt more than boost them since the mwd, cloak, allign, wait MWD cycle, uncloak, instawarp technique would not work then anymore. You would have to wait for your ship to decelerate then.
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Achenaa
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Posted - 2007.04.06 11:06:00 -
[129]
I made good isk running Strips and Ice miners to .0 markets First BRs get nerfed then the BPOs got seeded I have lost my method and my commodity
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MercuryCorto
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Posted - 2007.04.07 13:59:00 -
[130]
Bump
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.08 11:23:00 -
[131]
Easter bunny bump
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.04.09 08:49:00 -
[132]
bump
It would be cool if a dev could perhaps comment on this. I know you guys are busy, but these do take a long time to train for and are pretty useless these days.
As someone pointed out the BR was also hit by warp to zero (as they were really designed to get to a gate fast and tank a sniper or 2), I know this is here to stay and had to be done along with the nano nerf, but somewhere along the line these ships could do with an overhaul.
If they are going to stay this way well..i guess thats now it goes, but would be nice to know one way or another.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.09 23:33:00 -
[133]
BUMP BUMPY BUMP
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Bluestealth
Minmatar Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.09 23:59:00 -
[134]
I haven't really used my blockade runner since the patch, but up until then I had used it all the time to break through camps... I never lost a single ship.(Well... until I handed both of mine over to a carrier pilot to jump) It was bad enough that carriers began to be used to transport cargo more securely, they are now the only way to transport cargo through camps. Fix my damned Viator, its ridiculous to call it a blockade runner atm. There was an acceptable trade off between risk and storage capacity in the past, that time has come and gone.
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Lord Timelord
Gallente Artifex Dynamics
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Posted - 2007.04.10 07:54:00 -
[135]
All CCP needs to do is to reduce the ships mass, while keeping it's volume the same. This should allow it to align as fast as before, with the nice side affect of a higher top speed. That would help when you warp to a bubbled gate. __________
My Corporation's Website
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.11 11:47:00 -
[136]
BUMP BUMPY BUMP
Guess we'll have to post with BOB alts to get someone's attention
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Butler Hans
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.12 08:49:00 -
[137]
Bump
I want use Blockade runners!
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zwerg
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:43:00 -
[138]
i totally aggree here, i mean my alts viator:
2x I-Stab ( local hull ), 1x Nanofiber II.
2x low-frickle or whatever these agility rigs are called, and still 5 seconds, i mean c'mon
QFT, need fix bad!!
... they call me "the lil one" :(
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Helferin
Gallente Round Table Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.12 10:46:00 -
[139]
yes, it is a ridicioulus warp speed et alii, youre so right!!!
my viator aligns in like 6-7 seconds only, so i totally gimped the setup with 3 wcs and a shield tank
needs a fix very bad!!!! please ccp answer!!!
... but you could aswell take a banana, a parking place and some random jewellery and put the thing in da mixer! .. |
WillisCorto
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Posted - 2007.04.12 18:12:00 -
[140]
Bump - I dont mind the ISK but the bloody time spent training them....
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Butler Hans
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.14 04:08:00 -
[141]
Bump Should I postpone Traning for Amarr Transport?
Should I stay or should I go?
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.14 04:15:00 -
[142]
With bubbles/dictors and the speed module changes, this ship class is really getting left behind.
Lets actually doing something about it. (tack on a fix when the SB changes come along?)
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Per Bastet
Amarr B.O.O.M
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Posted - 2007.04.14 05:20:00 -
[143]
Bump.
Been watching this thread, and it's made me afraid to push the last 2 ranks on Amarr Indy.
Already have the Transports Skill learned so it would be a natural progression, but I want my Sigel to insta Warp Hop again as well.
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Flesh Eater
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Posted - 2007.04.14 05:22:00 -
[144]
I agree. Blockade runners should get an agility bonus. Thus the fix would be contained to this one ship class.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.04.14 10:23:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 02/04/2007 23:36:52
Originally by: James Lyrus There's a few suggestions here so far, from the simply 'just make 'em a bit more fast/agile' to the 'covops cloaking' or 'bubble immunity'. Perhaps even ewar immune, e.g. can't be scrambled?
Cov ops and e-war immunity would be WAY too much. Cov ops for kinda obvious reasons and ewar immunity means also no web, which would make it effeciently invulnerable, even to bubblecamps.
The most sensible suggestion I have seen (although with unsensible high boni) was changing the transport ship skill effects.
Prepatch a viator with 3 LH istabs and 2 t1 agility rigs got a total inertia reduction (inculding the effects of mass reduction) to 30% of it's unfitted inertia. Now with 3 LH istabs and 2 t1 mass rigs it gets 43% of its unfitted inertia.
The transport ship skill could give blockade runners -5% inertia and +5% MWD effeciency per lvl, that would give it maxxed 32.3% of it's unfitted preskill inertia. Not as low as before, but still WELL below what it got before rigs and I haven't seen too many people whining about them then. And actually an higher MWD speed than it had before the latest patch.
Agreed. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.14 14:34:00 -
[146]
/signed and a bump.
Like others I would really like to see a devs POV on this. Even if they're standpoint is that nothing can be done, a simple one sentence post stating that is at least something.
And really, if they are willing to give it a fix, then a few variables is all that need changing (if not only the one). And for that reason I'd hope for a fix pretty soon.
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Faroe
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Posted - 2007.04.14 20:37:00 -
[147]
bump
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.15 00:40:00 -
[148]
How is this whinny thread still around? It should be shot just for them bumping it this long.
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Dynast
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Posted - 2007.04.15 02:10:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Megan Maynard How is this whinny thread still around? It should be shot just for them bumping it this long.
Because some of us actually enjoy low sec and 0.0 trading and hauling, and are uninclined to ebay carrier alts to do what our characters were already trained and capable of doing until a patch busted it.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.15 02:40:00 -
[150]
ROFL, you are either lame for not posting with your main, or you are whining about 0.0 even though you aren't in a corp. LAME. Blockade runners all ready have a damn good bonus, nothing NEEDS to be done. Your ships were too quick before the patch, get over yourselves. Your ship is a hauler, not a fighter.
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Dynast
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Posted - 2007.04.15 08:35:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Megan Maynard ROFL, you are either lame for not posting with your main, or you are whining about 0.0 even though you aren't in a corp. LAME. Blockade runners all ready have a damn good bonus, nothing NEEDS to be done. Your ships were too quick before the patch, get over yourselves. Your ship is a hauler, not a fighter.
As usual, you hiss, spit, and miss the point entirely.
I've lived in 0.0 for more than a year, and for roughly half of that time I've been solo. Because it's fun. You on the other hand spout off about gate rats threatening haulers and other newbish silliness, suggesting that your experience in 0.0 is limited at best.
Blockade runners get tanking bonuses, bonuses to repping/boosting and resists, which are utterly worthless. No NPC ship is relevant, and with the tiny cap and tiny shields/armor Blockade Runners have, actually trying to tank any player outside of a t1 frig is ludicrous. These tanking bonuses [/b]are not good bonuses[/b].
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Amantus
Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.04.15 14:03:00 -
[152]
Wow. I was going to make a thread about this but I thought I'd just end up getting flamed. I'm glad somebody else made it
Anyway. I am also a proud owner of a Viator and was shocked, horrified, appalled and generally pretty grumpy about the fact that my Viator has gone from being able to warp faster than a T1 frig (I had 2x Agility rigs, 3 local hull inertial stabs) to getting to warp slower than most cruisers. It had also lost about 900m/s from MWD speed but the top speed would only be useful for me if I was already in the doo-doo so to speak and I had to MWD back to the gate to escape a bubble camp.
I have since replaced the 3 local hull inertial stabs for 2 local hull nanofibers and 1 local hull inertial stab but the time to get to warp is still horrifically slow compared to before. Maybe the reason that blockade runners were able to get to warp so quickly was the same thing that brought around the creation of the dreaded nano battleship but I hope that the massively reduced warping time was a mere side effect of the process to remove nano battleships.
The real reason for blockade runners being hard to catch (please note that blockade runners were by no means impossible to catch; an organised camp with a bubble and/or some fast lock tackling ships was fully able to catch a rigged and istabbed blockade runner) was the short time required to get to warp. That was their 'first defence' so to speak. The +2 warp strength is a mere safety net an will protect against a lone tackler or a couple of large ships sitting on the gate. I feel that the almost removal of this first defence has made blockade runners not that much safer than regular Tech 1 industrials. The +2 warp strength is not practically the Blockade Runner's only defence and one that is easily compromised. Sure, Blockade Runners should no means be able to glide past the biggest and most organised camps and warp bubbles should present a very large challenge for the ship (which they did very successfully I hasten to add) but at present the Blockade Runner has difficulty passing half-arsed and disorganised camps.
I very much hope that CCP are having a look, or at least glancing, at the Blockade Runner.
Cheers, Amantus ------------ Combat miner |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.15 14:22:00 -
[153]
I have used the tanking bonus on my crane. Was quite a giggle to go trying to kill 'ceptors.
But as a hauler? Naah, I've not done any hauling in a blockade runner in quite some time. Carriers, Freighters, and DSTs (mining ops) yes, definitely, but the blockade runner is just not up to the job. Not when I can fly a pilgrim with expanders, and cloak with 1000m3 of cargo, or just carrier jump with more cargo, speed and safety.
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Amantus
Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.04.15 14:29:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Amantus on 15/04/2007 14:26:14
Originally by: James Lyrus But as a hauler? Naah, I've not done any hauling in a blockade runner in quite some time. Carriers, Freighters, and DSTs (mining ops) yes, definitely, but the blockade runner is just not up to the job. Not when I can fly a pilgrim with expanders, and cloak with 1000m3 of cargo, or just carrier jump with more cargo, speed and safety.
That's the thing though. Blockade Runners used to very much be up to the job. The Viator can carry 4,200m3 with appropriate containers in the hold and used to get to warp faster than a T1 frig. Coupled with the 9 AU/S warp speed (only inties have a warp speed faster than that) the Blockade Runner was an excellent hauling vessel.
After the nano change, however, they have become much less good and that's why this thread exists ------------ Combat miner |
Elin
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Posted - 2007.04.15 16:15:00 -
[155]
Actually all was sad about blockade runners and how nano-fix hit them. And yes, all bonuses that we getting from transport ship skill are really useless. Who going to tank and risk 200 million worth ship (rigged + cargo expanders)equal to cruiser ??
And even best transports have less cargo than rigged Iteron 5
So i think transport ship bonuses should be changed to:
Deep Space: +cargo capacity +someting else Blockade runners: +mass reduction +signature reduction (or something with agility increace)
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Butler Hans
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.15 16:24:00 -
[156]
Quote:
So i think transport ship bonuses should be changed to:
Deep Space: +cargo capacity +someting else Blockade runners: +mass reduction +signature reduction (or something with agility increace)
Agree. I start training for Amarr Transport. I am expecting sincere answer from CCP.
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.04.15 21:08:00 -
[157]
Ok seeing as the timecard issue was fixed on sisi i got in and managed to do some tests in a last hope that this will get some attention.
Local i-stab = ~2sec less align Local nano = ~1sec less align Low Friction rig = ~2sec less align Polycarbon Engin rig = ~1sec less align
So from my base align time that is ~11sec i got it down to ~5sec by fitting the above with an aditional local i-stab, the reason for the mix and match is to avoid stacking penaltys as much as possible.
As said in the previous replys the armor rep bonus is useless and the primary defence of the BR has allways been it's fast align speed with the +2 wc bonus as a safety net which protects it from lone intys and the more random encounters.
Based on this my sugestion is to change the transport skill to give 5% inertia per level as 20% gives ~2sec 5% would give ~0.5sec improvement, with lvl 4 trained the align time would be ~3sec which is allmost as good as before and if u put the time in to train lvl 5 ur down to ~2.5sec which means it's back on the same level it was before the nano nerf making it a viable ship to use with fair protection against lone ships and less organised camps.
Note that to get this performance u would have to put rigs on the ship so while it would be just as good as before it comes with some greater isk investement then before.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.04.16 14:00:00 -
[158]
this one's for you Megan baby..
Bump
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.16 16:58:00 -
[159]
Daily bump back from my mountains trip TBHI didn't expect to see a dev post here yet, but someone will see this thread poking in his eye sooner or later.
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Sacrilegia
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Posted - 2007.04.16 17:06:00 -
[160]
Anyone know a good ore thief setup. My BR might be viable for a new career if I can align before I am red.
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Dimitrios Ypsilanti
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Posted - 2007.04.16 22:03:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Et alii -stuff-
Blockade runner = Typhoon + (3 x cargo expanders) + (4 x WCS).
Plus cloak.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.04.17 08:14:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Dimitrios Ypsilanti
Originally by: Et alii -stuff-
Blockade runner = Typhoon + (3 x cargo expanders) + (4 x WCS).
Plus cloak.
Actually, I'd go with a Pilgrim + 5 cargo expanders. Useful amount of cargo (about 1000m3 OTOH) and a covert cloak.
Or maybe just a Sigil, since you can stuff it with stabs (istabs, nanos).
Of course, a 'standard' covert is also pretty secure haulage.
Or alternatively just stuff a cruiser or BS with smartbombs, stabs and a shielt tank.
All of these, arguable, do a better job at blockade running, than a blockade runner.
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Flesh Eater
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Posted - 2007.04.17 16:09:00 -
[163]
I think the shield boost / amour repair bonusses should be changed to something else for blockade runners, since it is hard to fit both a MWD and a decent booster/reppairer (and the MWD is a must-have for these ships). Why don't they just make it a 5% agility + speed bonus per level? That way, the change won't impact those other "nano-ships" that everyone was whining about.
BTW I still dont understand why these ships arent as agile as before, since the agility stats of the new named i-stabs are higher than the nanofibers of old...right? Are they bugged or something (because I agree that my Prowler seems a lot slower, even after changing from nanofibers to i-stabs...)
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.04.17 23:10:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Dimitrios Ypsilanti
Originally by: Et alii -stuff-
Blockade runner = Typhoon + (3 x cargo expanders) + (4 x WCS).
Plus cloak.
No atm a Blockade runner = Thanatos with maxed it V in ship bay.
While a carrier is effective i still liked my viator for smaller stuff before it was rendered useless for running blockades but now im more or less forced to use a capital ship in a way it was not intended to be used to begin with.
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Wu Xiang
Prospero Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.04.18 01:39:00 -
[165]
Can we also make the Crane not suck so hard?
I can only fit an MWD if i don't fit any other mods appart from nanos/i-stabs, if i dont't want to waste those 4 slots I have to use a grid rig or sacrifice a low for a fitting mod to be able to fit them.
Crane also has the most mass, is 3rd in base speed and only has two lows.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.04.18 09:31:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Wu Xiang Can we also make the Crane not suck so hard?
I can only fit an MWD if i don't fit any other mods appart from nanos/i-stabs, if i dont't want to waste those 4 slots I have to use a grid rig or sacrifice a low for a fitting mod to be able to fit them.
Crane also has the most mass, is 3rd in base speed and only has two lows.
Oh agreed on that one. IMO all the blockade runners _should_ be able to fit an MWD II without fittings mods/rigs.
As it is, the 150 grid on the Crane (you do have engineering 5) means that you can _just_ fit an MWD, but only if you don't want any other mods at all on it.
Now, another 10 grid would be tolerable, but IMO it should really have another 20. (making MWD IIs *****ble, along with a couple of shield hardeners).
Oh, and I also thing that the tanking bonus ain't that great, something like a resistances bonus (on all the blockade runners) would be great.
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Trishan
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Posted - 2007.04.18 11:27:00 -
[167]
See, I am happy with the nerf hit. That's another skill class I won't have to train.
Thanks CCP!
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Malcanis
High4Life
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Posted - 2007.04.18 12:50:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Megan Maynard How is this whinny thread still around? It should be shot just for them bumping it this long.
Nah, people just want to see what truly foolish posts from someone who knows nothing about what she's blathering on about look like. Have you had enough time to read the ship descriptions for the Blockade Runners yet, I wonder? Did you learn anything?
On a side note, I have found a use for my Viator: it's quite good for collecting mission loot and salvaging. I've started skilling up my Transport alt in leadership skills too.
Of course, I certainly wouldn't use it for it's intended role as described by CCP.
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Butler Hans
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.19 10:54:00 -
[169]
Bump. CCP! SEE THIS PROBLEM!
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Faroe
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Posted - 2007.04.19 11:05:00 -
[170]
-b-u-m-p-
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Per Bastet
Amarr B.O.O.M
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Posted - 2007.04.19 11:26:00 -
[171]
Bump
Yea, it's a Problem and needs to be fixed.
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shuckstar
Gallente Order of New Blood
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Posted - 2007.04.19 11:56:00 -
[172]
Was gonna train for a blockade runner, but after reading this thread i think ill stick with a T1 hauler
And bumpage CCP sort it out
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Roan Pilgrano
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.20 22:21:00 -
[173]
I was really looking forward to a prowler, until this. As far as threads go, this one has a 95% intelligence rate, amazingly high for the internet. Apparently to get any sort of dev response you need to be a stark raving idiot talking about Templars.
I would just like to compliment the (majority) of people in here for their well reasoned improvements, or proposed reversion of the BR to a usuable and enjoyable ship, thereby leading to a similarly enjoyable game experience.
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Barstander
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Posted - 2007.04.20 23:37:00 -
[174]
Two things up front: I'm still quite new and I'm in a starter corp.
Everybody I talked to was afraid to venture out below 0.5. Therefore, I figured there was obvious money to be made going to low sec and transporting back to empire. So, I focused and trained for a prowler (because who doesn't like that ship design?). These game adjustments make it very difficult for me to profit. I would love it if the transport skill bonus got readjusted to make the ship better at running a blockade.
Historically, blockade runners survived on one of two things: Speed or Stealth. In the current game mechanics, they don't have either. So I'm hoping a fix is in order.
Nobody is asking for these ships to be strong fighters or gate camp destroyers, just that they have the speed or stealth to actually run the blockade and survive. Saying that you should 'join a corp' and have them escort you defeats the purpose of what a blockade runner is supposed to do. They are bascially the only cargo class vessels that are designed to fly solo. If we had the resources to fight our way through the blockade, we wouldn't need to run it now would we?
thanks for the consideration
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bldyannoyed
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.20 23:51:00 -
[175]
I only fly 1 type of transport, and thats gallente, so i cant argue for the other races.
What i can say for certain is that a Viator with 1 WCS, 1 local hull nano and 1 local Instab has the same mass, same agility nad same core str ( + 3) as an itty 5 with 3 WCS and the nano and instab.
And of course the viator is 20 times as xpensive and has a smaller cargo hold.
Regardless of what you think a blockade runner should do there is no getting away from the fact that atm they are no better than tech 1 haulers.
Which is clearly wrong. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.21 08:03:00 -
[176]
Originally by: bldyannoyed And of course the viator is 20 times as xpensive and has a smaller cargo hold.
..and has a 50% higher speed, considerably more hitpoints, can fit a MWD and has half the sig. If it jumps into a bubblecamp it has a pretty good chance of making it back to the gate. An itty5 will just die horribly.
While I would agree that blockade runners are a bit underwhelming atm and the transport ships skill is rather useless - both problem which could be solved with the same action - saying an itty5 is better than a viator is pushing it a bit.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.21 11:23:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: bldyannoyed And of course the viator is 20 times as xpensive and has a smaller cargo hold.
..and has a 50% higher speed, considerably more hitpoints, can fit a MWD and has half the sig. If it jumps into a bubblecamp it has a pretty good chance of making it back to the gate. An itty5 will just die horribly.
While I would agree that blockade runners are a bit underwhelming atm and the transport ships skill is rather useless - both problem which could be solved with the same action - saying an itty5 is better than a viator is pushing it a bit.
Actually, you can get a MWD on an iteron 5, along with a 'bit' of a tank if you try. It's got a lot of slots to work with. OK, so it does still have that monster sig, but ...
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SilverCut
Caldari Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2007.04.21 12:16:00 -
[178]
CCP dont have time for haulers... move along
Questions you have to ask... - Tech II haulers only ship class to have less or the same amount slots than their tech I counterparts? - Did the resist bouns ever get fixed? - Took their usefulness away in 0.0 by letting combat skilled pilots haul in carriers/dreads? - Response given to this thread?
This is just the views of someone who trained to use them when he started out a year ago the slot thing really bugged me because the bustard could of had an awesome tank
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Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.04.21 16:27:00 -
[179]
Replace the blanket +2 WCS Strength on Blockade Runners with a +1 WCS Strength per level of Transport skill please, for starters.
Then do something about the silly shield/armour boost bonus. Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.21 19:52:00 -
[180]
Originally by: James Lyrus Actually, you can get a MWD on an iteron 5, along with a 'bit' of a tank if you try.
Yes, but not while fitting 3 WCS, a nano and an istab
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.04.22 12:57:00 -
[181]
I mean really who would it harm for these ships to get a boost to agility, so they can do what they had been doing for ages before the patch? __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.22 15:32:00 -
[182]
Well, depends what you mean with "for ages".
Pre-rev (aka RMR, 4-5 months ago, no improved istabs, no rigs) best you could get for an viator was an inertia reduction to 61% using 3 LH nanos.
With rev 1.0 - 1.3 you could get with 3 LH istabs and 2 agility rigs an inertia reduction to 30%.
With rev 1.4 (aka now) you can get with 3 LH istabs and 2 mass rigs an inertia reduction to 43%.
Basically, right now you can achieve a far better agility than you could in red moon rising (where I cannot remember having seen one "blockade runners are useless" thread).
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Ditscher
Intergalactic Serenity
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Posted - 2007.04.22 15:57:00 -
[183]
just change her bonus to let her enter warp speed faster, that way it can be used at it should be and carriers and force recon ships can do their jobs as intended, too. atm its only good to hunt other ships because of the +2 warp strenght and no penalty to your scanning. T.u.-. |
Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.04.22 16:33:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Ling Xiao on 22/04/2007 16:32:32
Originally by: Aramendel Well, depends what you mean with "for ages".
Pre-rev (aka RMR, 4-5 months ago, no improved istabs, no rigs) best you could get for an viator was an inertia reduction to 61% using 3 LH nanos.
With rev 1.0 - 1.3 you could get with 3 LH istabs and 2 agility rigs an inertia reduction to 30%.
With rev 1.4 (aka now) you can get with 3 LH istabs and 2 mass rigs an inertia reduction to 43%.
Basically, right now you can achieve a far better agility than you could in red moon rising (where I cannot remember having seen one "blockade runners are useless" thread).
I've never used rigs on my Transports, and I've noticed a big difference in agility ever since the nano nerf hit, on both my Viator and my Crane. Saying they're more agile now than they were in RMR without rigs is just plain wrong.
I'm talking about the difference in getting-to-warp between a frigate and a cruiser. It's literally the difference between life and death when you meet hostile ships. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.22 18:36:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Ling Xiao I've never used rigs on my Transports, and I've noticed a big difference in agility ever since the nano nerf hit, on both my Viator and my Crane. Saying they're more agile now than they were in RMR without rigs is just plain wrong.
I'm talking about the difference in getting-to-warp between a frigate and a cruiser. It's literally the difference between life and death when you meet hostile ships.
They are. 2 LH istabs and 1 t2 nano are a reduction to 57.8% of the old inertia, which is (slightly) more than you could achieve in RMR.
People are a bit spoiled by the uber agility of rev 1.0-1.3, but compared to RMR blockade runners really did not get any nerf.
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Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.04.22 19:18:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ling Xiao I've never used rigs on my Transports, and I've noticed a big difference in agility ever since the nano nerf hit, on both my Viator and my Crane. Saying they're more agile now than they were in RMR without rigs is just plain wrong.
I'm talking about the difference in getting-to-warp between a frigate and a cruiser. It's literally the difference between life and death when you meet hostile ships.
They are. 2 LH istabs and 1 t2 nano are a reduction to 57.8% of the old inertia, which is (slightly) more than you could achieve in RMR.
People are a bit spoiled by the uber agility of rev 1.0-1.3, but compared to RMR blockade runners really did not get any nerf.
Your numbers on paper might seem right to u but the fact still remains that after the nano nerf even with i-stabs time-to-warp is more then doubled, so u can post numbers here all day long trying to argue that ur right while we still know that the ship in reality is much much slower then it ever was.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.22 19:45:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Aramendel on 22/04/2007 19:44:09
Originally by: Et alii Your numbers on paper might seem right to u but the fact still remains that after the nano nerf even with i-stabs time-to-warp is more then doubled, so u can post numbers here all day long trying to argue that ur right while we still know that the ship in reality is much much slower then it ever was.
Not really.
Compared to rev 1.0 - 1.3 it's about a 40% increase for rigless vs rigless or rigged vs rigged version and compared to RMR pretty much the same agility unrigged.
Thats a plain out fact. I did some rather extended testing for ship agility and know the numbers are correct because they mirror the results of practical tests almost exactly. I only ever do something on paper after I verfied it by ingame testing.
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.04.22 21:28:00 -
[188]
You're right. I'm dumb. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Et alii
The Syndicate.
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Posted - 2007.04.23 00:26:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 22/04/2007 20:06:12
Originally by: Et alii Your numbers on paper might seem right to u but the fact still remains that after the nano nerf even with i-stabs time-to-warp is more then doubled, so u can post numbers here all day long trying to argue that ur right while we still know that the ship in reality is much much slower then it ever was.
Not really.
Compared to rev 1.0 - 1.3 it's about a 40% increase for rigless vs rigless or rigged vs rigged version and compared to RMR pretty much the same agility unrigged.
Thats a plain out fact. I did some rather extended testing for ship agility and know the numbers are correct because they mirror the results of practical tests almost exactly. I only ever do something on paper after I verfied it by ingame testing.
Inertia reduction does 1:1 correspond to your ship agility. You can test this easily - take a slow ship and time how long it needs from 0-100% speed (in a straight line). Add an LH istab on it (-20% inertia) and do the same. It will reach that speed in around 80% of that time (give or take a few percentages due to lag & incorrect time measurement).
Note: you could also use time to warp as measurement factor, but I would recommend against it because it has more room for errors. It simply takes not enough time, accellerating to warp speed happens around 3 times faster than accellerating to 100% speed. A 2-3 second time difference due to lag and timing errors has a far greater effect for a time of 10 seconds than for a time of 30 seconds.
So. LH Nanos gave in RMR an inertia reduction of -15%. 0.85¦ is 0.614. LH istabs give a -20% inertia reduction, although have a stacking penality. 3 still gives a reduction to 0.586 of the old inertia, though. You can now simply read it up from the ship stats since they made the agility modifier visible. A bigger inertia reduction than in RMR (although without a base speed boost).
You can test everything I said but the old intertia reduction % of nanos in RMR (if you cannot remember it) without any problems.
From the effect of the modules there is really no difference to RMR. The only possible way how bloackade runners could achieve a smaller maximum agility now than in RMR is if CCP changed their base agility mod since then. No idea there, but I find that relatively unlikely.
Before rigs with was put in game with 3 local nanos my viator had aabout 3 sec time to get from cloaked to in warp, after the changes meaning now it takes with 3 local i-stabs about 7 seconds to do the same thing, now u can throw how many numbers u want at that fact and it still won't change.
I can't explain the reason for it beeing slower but it is slower now then it was before, they might have changed the agility when rigs was released based on a nano fitted BR hence the problem comes now with the nano nerf but i don't know, this was why my original question to get some form of confirmation from the devs on this matter.
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agrajag119
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Posted - 2007.04.23 04:18:00 -
[190]
one word. Mass.
That is what is causing the increase in time to warp
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.23 12:08:00 -
[191]
Originally by: agrajag119 one word. Mass.
That is what is causing the increase in time to warp
I'm still a little confused. I'm _fairly_ sure that before the nano/istab changes my Crane was rather nippy, and would warp _fairly_ quick. But since, and especially after them being 'rebalanced', it's been a sluggish slug. (Yes, ok, it's a Caldari ship, but it should still be _fairly_ nippy).
And Cranes definitely still need that extra P/G.
I've not seen many blockade runnners ... well at all really. But especially recently, when you're 'out performed' in terms of blockade running by a carrier, out-tanked/outstabbed by a DST, and if you've got an escort, well, freighters are tough enough to take a _bit_ of incoming fire (long enough for your escorts to cover you/start shield transferring at least).
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kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.04.23 13:29:00 -
[192]
My suggestion to making blockade runners viable again is giving it the ability to fit a covert ops cloaking device.
The drone region people would totally appreciate such a feature i believe.
Pew Pew!
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc. Frontline.
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Posted - 2007.04.23 16:13:00 -
[193]
Have to agree, my alts viator is not what it used to be, hardly a blockade runner.
In fact i have always been confused by Transport ships skill bonus.
They deffinetly need looking into to make them a specialized ship with an actual purpose.
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Suzy Creamcheesz
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Posted - 2007.04.23 16:22:00 -
[194]
viator and other blockade runners should drop the rep bonus for something more usefull. Maybe an agility bonus or speed bonus.
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Tista
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Posted - 2007.04.23 17:17:00 -
[195]
CCP should remove 0km warps and instas to gates.. make it so speed actualy effects gameplay other than combat. -------------------- My sig was stolen from some website.. leet!
The true Industrial capital ship! |
Sebastien LeReparteur
Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.23 18:05:00 -
[196]
Blockade Runners are now called carriers and the T2 hauler is a fire place mantle decoration now.
See CCP knew what they where doing they made T2 haulers obsolete so we could look at them and say wow what a nice useless ship!
:)
I found only 1 good job for them and it was ammo ferry for dead space... then a realized the other T2 was so much better at the job.
T2 Blockade Runners have joined the useless ship list. ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone... |
Mighty Dread
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.23 20:42:00 -
[197]
I gotta chime in here. With all these improvements being made to combat ships including new ships it's time the haulers and transports got some love too. There has to be a way for people to move a decent quantity of goods through these increasing hostile times. I mean hell why do you think sells are so cheap and buys so high in low sec? Because nobody is foolish enough to risk a ship + fittings for a couple of mil tops flying in and out of low sec.
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Noobie Noobsen
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Posted - 2007.04.24 07:39:00 -
[198]
change br bonus to inertia, speed or mass reduction or anything, that makes it usefull again. nobody was complaining of them beforer the patch. and dont say something like "arrange with the changes and adapt", because that would mean just dont use it anymore and chosse other ships to do the blockade running job (force recons, carriers)
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Ohdows
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Posted - 2007.04.24 07:55:00 -
[199]
They have to make it possible for us to get things out of lo/no-sec. that is what keeps me in high. what good is 500 mill of loot if i cant sell it?
if they want us to go to 0.0 we have to be able to move our things relatilvey safetly. (not that BR should be uncatchable, just hard to catch. should have resonable chance of survival against a standard gate camp) ------- sorry for any misspelling or type errors (actualy i am dyslectic... so i wont apologise) |
Madame Foster
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Posted - 2007.04.24 08:59:00 -
[200]
use carriers ffs
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:51:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Madame Foster use carriers ffs
Ok yeah, you gonna buy me one?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:13:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Madame Foster use carriers ffs
I do.
But ya'know, Blockade runners are like my first love. Sure, I'll see other women, but there's still a special place in my heart, for my Crane, that got me into an MC vid, back when Borealis was being built.
You're entirely correct though. In these days of freighters and carriers, transport ships are basically obselete - if you have a large cargo to move, and can escort it, you bring a freighter. If you have a cargo you want to move securely and fast, you bring a carrier.
Hey, now there's a thought. Jumpdrive for my Crane please!
Actually, I'd really love a Jumpdrive freighter. That would be really cool.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:30:00 -
[203]
Well, while we wait could we have a bit of discussion on the best current setup for a BR? I'm talking Istabs/nanos coupled with mass/agility rigs. What's the best setup anyones found so far? My Prowler is running 2 agility rigs and 2 istabs but I'm sure I'm not getting the most out of my slots with the stacking penalties and all. I was thinking about replacing either the rigs or the mods with mass reduction or maybe do a 1 rig 1 module each setup spreading the penalties out a bit.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.04.24 14:12:00 -
[204]
Last time I used one think I had:
High - Proto cloak Mids - 2x Invunras (tech 1 or 2) YT overcharged MWD Lows - I-stab/nano, or sometimes an extra WCS if I thought it was gonna be an especially nasty trip Rigs - one mass reduction, one agility.
Obviously sucked cap real fast, but if you weren't out by then it was over anyway.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.24 17:42:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Sen Goku Last time I used one think I had:
High - Proto cloak Mids - 2x Invunras (tech 1 or 2) YT overcharged MWD Lows - I-stab/nano, or sometimes an extra WCS if I thought it was gonna be an especially nasty trip Rigs - one mass reduction, one agility.
Obviously sucked cap real fast, but if you weren't out by then it was over anyway.
Yeah, proto cloak is a must as is mwd. Your running what I thought might be best. The fact you can't remove rigs without destroying them doesn't make experimenting with setups easy :(
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.24 23:15:00 -
[206]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 24/04/2007 23:13:35
Originally by: ManniXXX
Originally by: Sen Goku Last time I used one think I had:
High - Proto cloak Mids - 2x Invunras (tech 1 or 2) YT overcharged MWD Lows - I-stab/nano, or sometimes an extra WCS if I thought it was gonna be an especially nasty trip Rigs - one mass reduction, one agility.
Obviously sucked cap real fast, but if you weren't out by then it was over anyway.
Yeah, proto cloak is a must as is mwd. Your running what I thought might be best. The fact you can't remove rigs without destroying them doesn't make experimenting with setups easy :(
No, but the test server does :) At least, assuming rigs are seeded these days.
I tend to use a Crane with: Improved Cloak 10mn AB, med shield booster 2x invulns fields nanos
I think nanos has the best effect on maneuverability and speed, but testing 'time to warp' is annoying. One day I'll bother to have a look at the logserver for accurate timing.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.25 01:17:00 -
[207]
Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 24/04/2007 23:13:35
Originally by: ManniXXX
Originally by: Sen Goku Last time I used one think I had:
High - Proto cloak Mids - 2x Invunras (tech 1 or 2) YT overcharged MWD Lows - I-stab/nano, or sometimes an extra WCS if I thought it was gonna be an especially nasty trip Rigs - one mass reduction, one agility.
Obviously sucked cap real fast, but if you weren't out by then it was over anyway.
Yeah, proto cloak is a must as is mwd. Your running what I thought might be best. The fact you can't remove rigs without destroying them doesn't make experimenting with setups easy :(
No, but the test server does :) At least, assuming rigs are seeded these days.
I tend to use a Crane with: Improved Cloak 10mn AB, med shield booster 2x invulns fields nanos
I think nanos has the best effect on maneuverability and speed, but testing 'time to warp' is annoying. One day I'll bother to have a look at the logserver for accurate timing.
Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
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Ohdows
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Posted - 2007.04.25 08:53:00 -
[208]
Originally by: ManniXXX Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
problem is it dosnt take aligntime into consideration, or? ------- sorry for any misspelling or type errors (actualy i am dyslectic... so i wont apologise) |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:04:00 -
[209]
No, but it doesn't matter because after a jump you do not need to allign.
Your ships shows like it is facing into a direction, but in reality it is facing into none. Whatver direction you first give a movement (or warp to command) after a jump is your starting direction.
Basically your ship needs only to acellerate to 80% (or was it 75%?) speed in a straight line. It will go into warp to an object which seems right in front of it as fast as to one which seems 180¦ behind it.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 10:33:00 -
[210]
Originally by: ManniXXX
Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
1.61 comes from comes from this.
Acceleration formula: V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^-(t / (A*M))) Where A = Inertia Modifier and M = Mass/1.000.000 Breaking out "t" get you ->
t = -ln(1-(V/Vmax))*A*M The ship warp at 80% of top speed, that gives us V/Vmax = 0.8 ->
T = -ln(0.2)*A*M and then we have -ln(0.2) = 1.61 so the final formula becomes -> T = 1.61*A*M ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Ohdows
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Posted - 2007.04.25 10:42:00 -
[211]
ok, that explains a thing or two.
i've always wondered why the sip turns so fast at gates...(feels kinda stupid, not thinking it might be as mentioned) ------- sorry for any misspelling or type errors (actualy i am dyslectic... so i wont apologise) |
ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.25 13:35:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: ManniXXX
Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
1.61 comes from comes from this.
Acceleration formula: V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^-(t / (A*M))) Where A = Inertia Modifier and M = Mass/1.000.000 Breaking out "t" get you ->
t = -ln(1-(V/Vmax))*A*M The ship warp at 80% of top speed, that gives us V/Vmax = 0.8 ->
T = -ln(0.2)*A*M and then we have -ln(0.2) = 1.61 so the final formula becomes -> T = 1.61*A*M
Nicely done, it's always good to see some hard maths behind the numbers.
As for the align time isn't it basically because your ship is stopped? The faster your ship is moving the slower it turns but from 0ms it will turn pretty much on the spot.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.25 15:01:00 -
[213]
Originally by: ManniXXX
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: ManniXXX
Well I found this formula on a different thread that is supposed to equate to time to warp in seconds:
Inertia Modifier x 1.61 x (Mass/1,000,000)
I don't know where the 1.61 comes from but from what I can tell it seems to work. This could help loads in working out what setup works best.
1.61 comes from comes from this.
Acceleration formula: V(t) = Vmax*(1-e^-(t / (A*M))) Where A = Inertia Modifier and M = Mass/1.000.000 Breaking out "t" get you ->
t = -ln(1-(V/Vmax))*A*M The ship warp at 80% of top speed, that gives us V/Vmax = 0.8 ->
T = -ln(0.2)*A*M and then we have -ln(0.2) = 1.61 so the final formula becomes -> T = 1.61*A*M
Nicely done, it's always good to see some hard maths behind the numbers.
As for the align time isn't it basically because your ship is stopped? The faster your ship is moving the slower it turns but from 0ms it will turn pretty much on the spot.
I'd noticed that any time you enter a system, your ship is always pointing the 'same' direction. I don't know if it's ever been officialy confirmed, but I've seen a measure of circumstantial evidence that suggests that you have no vector on first arrival in system. Your 'default direction' is graphical. (Much like you don't have an elevation as far as I can tell).
This is why the 'webbing a freighter' trick works - as soon as you start 'moving' you're going the right way, and so when a web drops your 'max' velocity, you immediately hit 75% on the right vector, and can warp immediately.
But it's certainly interesting to see an time to warp formula. I'd be interested still in figuring out rate of turn though, just for the occasions when youre 'not jumping in.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.25 21:27:00 -
[214]
Yeah i see where ur coming from but if your having to turn around at a camp then your using the ship wrong. Point in case would be useful on a general principle for all ships however.
Speaking of which, using a cloak is a damn good way to drop your time to warp beautifully as long as you align yourself whilst cloaked. Not entirely sure about the mechanics but i think it could be as simple as the fact you're travelling at 20% or whatever it is of your top speed and are therefore closer to your 80% warp speed as you decloak. I've been liking it anyway.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.27 16:04:00 -
[215]
Alright I've been number crunching and, for a prowler at least, Mass rigs with agilty modules seems the best combination. Take into account that I have evasive manoevering + spaceship command at L4. But still on a general basis this still makes sense, The mass rigs give -15% where as the nanofiber II gives 12.5% and local hull only 10%. Visa versa for inertia though, with rigs giving only 15% and local hulls 20%. The maths doesn't even need to be done to see which is the best combination. We're still only talking .3 of a second difference. The best setup I found was 2 mass rigs and 2 i-stabs (beta hull) for a Time to warp of 5.715 secs. Not exactly brilliant. :/
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.04.28 11:35:00 -
[216]
BUMPY BUMP Keep up the good work guys
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trader ming
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Posted - 2007.04.29 00:14:00 -
[217]
i am looking into what transport to train for and this thread has me asking a few questions (I am returning to the game so still figuring everything out)
no one uses WCS? with 3 of those on a viator coupled with proper agility improving rigs and a MWD and i think you could make it past most gate camps? The chances of enough interceptors to get close enough to stop you from warping seem slim.
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kill0rbunny
Alpha-Hirogen The Pentagram
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:34:00 -
[218]
Originally by: kill0rbunny My suggestion to making blockade runners viable again is giving it the ability to fit a covert ops cloaking device. The drone region people would totally appreciate such a feature i believe.
Hmm still appreciating this.
Or maybe the same bonus stealth bombers get with cloaked velocity? hmmmmmm nice.
Pew Pew!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:27:00 -
[219]
Originally by: trader ming i am looking into what transport to train for and this thread has me asking a few questions (I am returning to the game so still figuring everything out)
no one uses WCS? with 3 of those on a viator coupled with proper agility improving rigs and a MWD and i think you could make it past most gate camps? The chances of enough interceptors to get close enough to stop you from warping seem slim.
You have 2 WCS built in. That would take you to 5 points, which is a nice number. However you're then slow, and essentially relying on residual hitpoints, and 'having enough stabs' to get away. Which a DST does better, since they have more lowslots, and enough powergrid to MWD + tank back to a gate if necessary.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.30 12:31:00 -
[220]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: kill0rbunny My suggestion to making blockade runners viable again is giving it the ability to fit a covert ops cloaking device. The drone region people would totally appreciate such a feature i believe.
Hmm still appreciating this.
Or maybe the same bonus stealth bombers get with cloaked velocity? hmmmmmm nice.
Someone commented earlier that covert ops cloaking would be overpowering. I think they may be right.
I think it depends somewhat on the 'objective' role wise, for the blockade runner.
Fast: needs more agility, lower mass, and more grid to MWD Unstoppable: More stabs, maybe bubble busting. Or perhaps even a jumpdrive (I'd love this :)) Stealthy: Cloaking bonuses, be it covops style 'warp whilst cloaked' or stealth bomber style 'can move quickly whilst cloaked'.
Actually, I rather like the idea of the stealth bomber aspect - it's a rather nice boost to your ability to get away from a camp, but ... well obviously you have to decloak to 'leg it'. But alongside being able to fit a MWD on a Crane, in a sensible fashion of course :)
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.01 08:49:00 -
[221]
Edited by: NIkis on 01/05/2007 08:46:00
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Someone commented earlier that covert ops cloaking would be overpowering. I think they may be right.
The people using pilgrim for purpose of blockade running makes this seem a not so overpowering feature. I think 'they' (your 'they') may be wrong. But still there are a lot of different approaches to solving the current blockade runner dilemma. And to the guy who advocated cramming the lows with WCS, you will move like a fat whale if you do that, and probably get ganked anyway (a lot of ships can target a MWDing industrial, not only intys). If you gamble on 'chance' you get screwed like the ECM did. Way to go CCP
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.01 09:07:00 -
[222]
Thats ignoring quite a few issues.
Even if you fill all the pilgrims lows with cargo expenders it still will only have around 1/3rd of a blockade runners total cargo. And will be slower and less agile than the blockade runner. And won't have the 2 warp core strength bonus.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.01 10:03:00 -
[223]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 01/05/2007 10:00:49
Originally by: Aramendel Thats ignoring quite a few issues.
Even if you fill all the pilgrims lows with cargo expenders it still will only have around 1/3rd of a blockade runners total cargo. And will be slower and less agile than the blockade runner. And won't have the 2 warp core strength bonus.
Doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable that a blockade runner be better at running blockades than a pilgrim :). After all, it's not like you can do nossy-drony-death on a blockade runner.
I think you're in part correct though - 2 pts of built in stabs _and_ a covert cloak would be pretty horrific IMO. I'm not sure how they compare to the pilgrim mass and agility wise though... actually scratch that, 5 expanders are going to kill the handling of pretty much any ship :)
How would 'as are, but with stealth bomber cloaked velocity bonus' square up? So, basically giving you a couple of points, and the ability to move clear of a gatecamp in a sensible amount of time, if they don't spot you decloaking.
But still with the MWD needed on the Crane :)
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Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2007.05.01 12:45:00 -
[224]
This needs to be addressed, ages to train and an expensive skill book. The Transport Ships skill serves no purpose. The Crane used to be a hoot to fly, now mine gathers dust in the hanger whilst I use a cheap disposable Badger...
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.03 03:12:00 -
[225]
*bump*
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.03 07:24:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Aramendel on 03/05/2007 07:20:08
Originally by: James Lyrus Doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable that a blockade runner be better at running blockades than a pilgrim :). After all, it's not like you can do nossy-drony-death on a blockade runner.
A pilgrim with that setup won't do the nossy-drone-death either.
The point is that such a pilgrim hauler setup is not really practical. Any halfway decent gatecamp *will* decloak you because you are slow as hell. I would rather make 6 trips with a cov ops than one with a pilgrim fitted that way.
Personally I would rather make transport ships give them a useful bonus to agility & speed than giving them any cloaking bonus. It doesn't really fit to blockade runners.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.03 08:33:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 03/05/2007 07:20:08
Originally by: James Lyrus Doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable that a blockade runner be better at running blockades than a pilgrim :). After all, it's not like you can do nossy-drony-death on a blockade runner.
A pilgrim with that setup won't do the nossy-drone-death either.
The point is that such a pilgrim hauler setup is not really practical. Any halfway decent gatecamp *will* decloak you because you are slow as hell. I would rather make 6 trips with a cov ops than one with a pilgrim fitted that way.
Personally I would rather make transport ships give them a useful bonus to agility & speed than giving them any cloaking bonus. It doesn't really fit to blockade runners.
From experience though, whilst there's _decent_ gate camps out there, there's way more enthusiast gate camps. The latter are somewhat flummoxed by cloakers. (It's not _that_ easy to spot and decloak someone)
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.03 09:03:00 -
[228]
Yes, but those can be survived by a blockade runner as it is right now just fine if you use mwd-cloak-wait mwd cycle-uncloak-instawarp
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.05 18:08:00 -
[229]
*BUMP*
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Ulii
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Posted - 2007.05.08 08:08:00 -
[230]
Think i might bump this one...
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zevex
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Posted - 2007.05.08 19:28:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Aramendel Yes, but those can be survived by a blockade runner as it is right now just fine if you use mwd-cloak-wait mwd cycle-uncloak-instawarp
This only works if you are not in a bubble. If you are in a bubble, and your nearest exit point is not in line with a celestial object, you are kind of hosed. In the old days you stood a chance mwd'ing back to the gate, but today the acceleration is far too slow.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.08 20:15:00 -
[232]
I remember a time when a legitimate, well reasoned thread like this would receive acknowledgement from a dev pretty fast, with their view of the situation. I think it was TomB at the time, pity he's gone
__________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:18:00 -
[233]
no worries I don't let this one sink
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:54:00 -
[234]
Originally by: zevex This only works if you are not in a bubble. If you are in a bubble, and your nearest exit point is not in line with a celestial object, you are kind of hosed. In the old days you stood a chance mwd'ing back to the gate, but today the acceleration is far too slow.
2 problems here. Firstly, going for the shortest route out of the bubble is generally a bad idea. If the defenders have any brains they will search especially that area for you. Going for a less obvious route is usually better. Secondly, once you are out of the bubble it isn't that much of a problem to get away. Even if you have no speed from the MWD boost left you'll warp in less than 5 seconds. Add the uncloaking lag to this and you are rather hard to catch in that time. In the worst case you can simply stay cloaked and slowboat till you are a least 30k away from all enemies.
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max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:59:00 -
[235]
you can fit MWD, Case closed.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:10:00 -
[236]
Originally by: max bygraves you can fit MWD, Case closed.
wow that was smart
Almost any ship can do that .. so what ?
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Alrich
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Posted - 2007.05.10 08:46:00 -
[237]
because anything that fitts a mwd is owerpowered and it is the ultimate escape module... nothing can hit you because they get blinded by your gigantic sig radius. missiles will get confused and think you are a planet, therefor avoiding you, turrets wont be able to lock you because their target computers will be overloaded by your almighty sig radius!!
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.05.10 12:36:00 -
[238]
I think that despite most of us managing to keep this thread on pretty good form, we seem to have attracted some of the lowest IQ posts in recently recorded human history.
No Dev response yet, but thats something I guess
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Plures Nex
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:07:00 -
[239]
Some more fuel for the fire. Using the time-to-warp equationfrom the previous page, I ran the times for all the industrails and trandsport ships when fitted and rigged for fastest warp. I'm assuming Evasive manovering V and no alignment time. Listed in order of time to warp (in seconds)
Sigil2.67 Iteron V2.86 Impel3.48 Mammoth3.80 Prorator3.84 Iteron III3.99 Bestower4.10 Iteron IV4.27 Hoarder4.37 Occator4.46 Wreathe4.75 Iteron I4.86 Viator4.98 Badger II5.13 Iteron II5.22 Mastodon5.29 Prowler5.58 Bustard5.72 Badger6.05 Crane6.42
Everyones old favorite, the Iteron Mk V, is the second fastest, beaten only by the sigil. The fastest deep space transport (Impel) beats out the fastest blockade runner (Prorator). Two of the bottom four places are taken by blocakde runners. You have to feel sorry for the caldari, holding the last three spots like that. All races are better off (from a time-to-warp perspective) sticking to Tech I ships.
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.05.11 10:43:00 -
[240]
heh you'd think that they would at least roughly still be in the same order after the nerf..being as 'some of the slowest ships flying through space' are able to warp faster than their apparently 'faster' counterparts.
I'm not even gonna mention the tech 1s..
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.11 11:05:00 -
[241]
Originally by: max bygraves you can fit MWD, Case closed.
Actually, on a Crane, you can't. Actually, that's not entirely true. With Engineering 5, you get the 120 powergrid on the Crane, to 150. Which is _just_ enough to fit a MWD. And it's at that point that the small bits of 1 powergrid that a lot of mods seem to take, becomes very relevant. You literally can't fit anything else to it.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.11 11:11:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Plures Nex Some more fuel for the fire. Using the time-to-warp equationfrom the previous page, I ran the times for all the industrails and trandsport ships when fitted and rigged for fastest warp. I'm assuming Evasive manovering V and no alignment time. Listed in order of time to warp (in seconds)...
Numbers are wrong because you are calculating them without figuring in stacking penalities. Which effect both -inertia and -mass.
With stacking penalities and the most effective setup (4 LH istabs, 1 t2 nano, 2 t2 mass rigs) a sigil has a time-to-warp of 4.05 seconds, for example.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.13 12:40:00 -
[243]
BUMPPPPP
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.05.13 13:56:00 -
[244]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: max bygraves you can fit MWD, Case closed.
Actually, on a Crane, you can't. Actually, that's not entirely true. With Engineering 5, you get the 120 powergrid on the Crane, to 150. Which is _just_ enough to fit a MWD. And it's at that point that the small bits of 1 powergrid that a lot of mods seem to take, becomes very relevant. You literally can't fit anything else to it.
Fit an RCU or a grid rig. Problem solved. But yeah, buff the Crane's grid please.
Because I said so...
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.05.13 13:58:00 -
[245]
Edited by: madaluap on 13/05/2007 13:56:30 They need to get in warp faster, thats it. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.15 05:02:00 -
[246]
getting in warp faster is a good start *bump*
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.15 07:55:00 -
[247]
Edited by: ManniXXX on 15/05/2007 07:54:09
Originally by: Plures Nex Some more fuel for the fire. Using the time-to-warp equationfrom the previous page, I ran the times for all the industrails and trandsport ships when fitted and rigged for fastest warp. I'm assuming Evasive manovering V and no alignment time. Listed in order of time to warp (in seconds)
Sigil2.67 Iteron V2.86 Impel3.48 Mammoth3.80 Prorator3.84 Iteron III3.99 Bestower4.10 Iteron IV4.27 Hoarder4.37 Occator4.46 Wreathe4.75 Iteron I4.86 Viator4.98 Badger II5.13 Iteron II5.22 Mastodon5.29 Prowler5.58 Bustard5.72 Badger6.05 Crane6.42
Everyones old favorite, the Iteron Mk V, is the second fastest, beaten only by the sigil. The fastest deep space transport (Impel) beats out the fastest blockade runner (Prorator). Two of the bottom four places are taken by blocakde runners. You have to feel sorry for the caldari, holding the last three spots like that. All races are better off (from a time-to-warp perspective) sticking to Tech I ships.
Like someone else said the numbers are wrong, however as I discovered from calculating different prowler loadouts without the stacking penalties filtered in, the comparisons remain constant.
T1 Indys gettin to warp quicker than their T2 counterparts does not surprise me, given the extra flexibility you have in the low slots. With the nano changes, fitting some mass reduction rigs coupled with nice inertia skills/implants/modules is pretty damn effective.
Easy solution? Give BRs more low slots.
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Finn Yr
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Posted - 2007.05.15 10:21:00 -
[248]
Hmmm....look like legitimate concerns to me. T1 beat T2? Elephants escape faster antilopes? Designers, please! At least take notice and respond to real issues, mkay? Sticking your head in the sand does you no credit.
And let¦s not get into the muddy pond of gate camps, whiners and wannabes, ok folks? T1 should, by definition, NOT outclass T2. It¦s like buying a Mazerati and be beaten by a Fiat. Stupid, expensive and utterly pointless. And definatively not what is to be expected...
F.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.15 10:32:00 -
[249]
The problem is that it really doesn't.
Take the iteron m5 and the viator. If you fit both ships for maximum agility the iterion goes into warp around 4% faster.
So is it better? Only if you ignore a few details. Like that it has only 66% of the viators speed, cannot fit a MWD, has a slower warpspeed, does not have 2 warp core strength and has less effective HP.
You have to look at the whole picture, not only at one stat.
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QueenSylvanas
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Posted - 2007.05.15 19:19:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Aramendel The problem is that it really doesn't.
Take the iteron m5 and the viator. If you fit both ships for maximum agility the iterion goes into warp around 4% faster.
So is it better? Only if you ignore a few details. Like that it has only 66% of the viators speed, cannot fit a MWD, has a slower warpspeed, does not have 2 warp core strength and has less effective HP.
You have to look at the whole picture, not only at one stat.
We have warp to 0 now .. in case you didn't notice , so which of those 'details' is of more importance than a improved warp time ? And where did you pull that 4% from ? I see a lot more lows on Iteron m5 than on Viator (and 3 rig slots instead of 2)
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.16 01:54:00 -
[251]
Originally by: QueenSylvanas We have warp to 0 now ..
Hello, I am 0.0 space. I have dictor and mobile bubbles. If you jump into me and are a t1 indy with an AB you are dead.
Warptime is only the sole important stat in low sec - but there you have either BCs/BS which won't lock you in time either way or remote boosted instalockers which will lock you before warp even if you max agility in your hauler. Or smartbombers.
Quote: And where did you pull that 4% from ? I see a lot more lows on Iteron m5 than on Viator (and 3 rig slots instead of 2)
Ah, my error, that was for an itty setup with 2 WCS. I forgot that. If you max agility it gets into warp a bit less than 14% faster.
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Ditscher
Intergalactic Serenity Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.16 09:09:00 -
[252]
why is a ship, which should be specialised in blockade running through low sec and no sec slower than a normal industrial? now its only a industrial who can fit a mwd easier. blockade runners should be at least not slower in warp than an sigil. its part of their role.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.16 10:18:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Ditscher why is a ship, which should be specialised in blockade running through low sec and no sec slower than a normal industrial? now its only a industrial who can fit a mwd easier. blockade runners should be at least not slower in warp than an sigil. its part of their role.
The point is that to be faster in warp (and not be a large margin) than a blockade runner a t1 industrial has to sacrifice pretty much everything. It's not really a realistic fitting.
And in terms of "faster travel" a blockade runner IS faster. Say hello to 9 au/sec warpseed. A t1 indy has 4.5 au/sec.
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QueenSylvanas
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:01:00 -
[254]
To the 'hello i m 0.0 space' yadda yadda post: yes and we all know blockade runners are immune to dictor bubbles and mobile disruptors right ?
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ditscher why is a ship, which should be specialised in blockade running through low sec and no sec slower than a normal industrial? now its only a industrial who can fit a mwd easier. blockade runners should be at least not slower in warp than an sigil. its part of their role.
The point is that to be faster in warp (and not be a large margin) than a blockade runner a t1 industrial has to sacrifice pretty much everything. It's not really a realistic fitting.
And in terms of "faster travel" a blockade runner IS faster. Say hello to 9 au/sec warpseed. A t1 indy has 4.5 au/sec.
Well if someone escapes a gate camp (due to the oh so powerful +2 WCS builtin ), and that someone's got any semblance of intelligence, he will likely warp to a safespot and scan around, so your point is moot (warpspeed is irrelevant). And it's not like a camp will move so easily just to chase a lone industrial with uncertain loot. Oh and how you justify crane not being able to fit a shield booster (which gets bonus from transport skill) together with the 'standard' MWD (since your only real point of defense is the blockade runners having the ability to fit MWD) ?
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.16 16:04:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Aramendel The problem is that it really doesn't.
Take the iteron m5 and the viator. If you fit both ships for maximum agility the iterion goes into warp around 4% faster.
So is it better? Only if you ignore a few details. Like that it has only 66% of the viators speed, cannot fit a MWD, has a slower warpspeed, does not have 2 warp core strength and has less effective HP.
You have to look at the whole picture, not only at one stat.
Yes, this point has already been raised in the previous pages. But really, all these extras, Built in WCS, Nice grid and T2 resists are just that, extras. Anybody who ever flew a BR knows that their strength was always their agility, resulting in a fast time to warp, and indeed this was the way they were intended to be.
I can sum my point up nicely by saying that Deep space transports can fit 2 wcs easily, and a MWD, and have better base resists and have more HP. What don't DSTs have though? Yeah that's right, agility. And neither do BRs anymore. Are we getting closer to seeing the problem now?
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.16 17:44:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Aramendel on 16/05/2007 17:51:52
Originally by: QueenSylvanas To the 'hello i m 0.0 space' yadda yadda post: yes and we all know blockade runners are immune to dictor bubbles and mobile disruptors right ?
If you jump into a bubble with a blockade runner you can make it back to the gate before you get webbed down. Been there, done it.
Quote: Well if someone escapes a gate camp (due to the oh so powerful +2 WCS builtin), and that someone's got any semblance of intelligence, he will likely warp to a safespot and scan around, so your point is moot (warpspeed is irrelevant). And it's not like a camp will move so easily just to chase a lone industrial with uncertain loot.
The fact that they travel faster than all other indies is completely unchanged by this. For fast transport of good they are the best choice.
Also, you are contradicting yourself. When a camp usually does not chase after a lone indy, why would "anyone with a brain" go to a safespot after escaping one? If you get away from a 2 person camp and the system has 15 people in local it's another thing, but that has nothing to do with escaping a camp and everything with keeping an eye on local.
And warp speed has other, more subtle advantages. You usually do not have premade SS in every single system you are travelling through. So quite often you'll warp to a celestial object. If frigates warp after you they'll arrive unless it's a very close target BEFORE you in a normal indy. Which gives them an edge for tackling you. The only ships which are faster than a blockade runner are the "tackler" inties (male, ares, rap, stil) and the cov ops frigates.
Warp speed is no "I AM INVINCIBLE" stat, but there are definite advantages of warping fast.
Quote: Oh and how you justify crane not being able to fit a shield booster (which gets bonus from transport skill) together with the 'standard' MWD (since your only real point of defense is the blockade runners having the ability to fit MWD) ?
One ship != an entire ship class. You won't see me saying anywhere "the crane has enough grid". Using a cosmos MWD works, but that is no real alternative due to it's rarity. Besides, if you would have followed this thread you would have seen that I said that the transport ship skill boni for blockade runners are rather useless and that it should be changed. Does not make the ship class useless, though. Compared to RMR they are still faster in warp due to rigs. And t1 indies were always able to warp faster with the right fitting. Before the nanonerf it was even more pronounced due to no stacking penalities on agility mods. People are now not complaining about it because it's an imbalance - it isn't, the other blockade runner stats make up for that - but because they are grasping on straws to make the ship class seem weaker than they are.
Originally by: ManniXXX I can sum my point up nicely by saying that Deep space transports can fit 2 wcs easily, and a MWD, and have better base resists and have more HP. What don't DSTs have though? Yeah that's right, agility. And neither do BRs anymore. Are we getting closer to seeing the problem now?
Feel free to try to get a deep space to even *remotely* the same agility as a blockade runner. You can even use all slots on the DS.
Hint: it has twice the mass. No matter what you fit you cannot counter that. Nevermind half the base speed.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.16 18:50:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Ditscher why is a ship, which should be specialised in blockade running through low sec and no sec slower than a normal industrial? now its only a industrial who can fit a mwd easier. blockade runners should be at least not slower in warp than an sigil. its part of their role.
The point is that to be faster in warp (and not be a large margin) than a blockade runner a t1 industrial has to sacrifice pretty much everything. It's not really a realistic fitting.
And in terms of "faster travel" a blockade runner IS faster. Say hello to 9 au/sec warpseed. A t1 indy has 4.5 au/sec.
9AU/sec in warp is nice, I agree. Personally though, I've found it makes very little difference in all but the very largest systems - the amount of time it takes you to accelerate into warp seems to be fairly constant, at which point the difference in time taken to cross 30AU between that and something with, say a 3au/sec warp, doesn't actually seem to be all that significant. It shows quite well, in 200AU systems, but ... I'm not convinced that's worth the trade.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.16 18:53:00 -
[258]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: max bygraves you can fit MWD, Case closed.
Actually, on a Crane, you can't. Actually, that's not entirely true. With Engineering 5, you get the 120 powergrid on the Crane, to 150. Which is _just_ enough to fit a MWD. And it's at that point that the small bits of 1 powergrid that a lot of mods seem to take, becomes very relevant. You literally can't fit anything else to it.
Fit an RCU or a grid rig. Problem solved. But yeah, buff the Crane's grid please.
Oh, I agree, you can sacrifice one of your two rig or lowslots to fit a fittings mod. To me though, that just seems... well painful really. I mean, IIRC the Crane's one of the slowest B/Rs anyway, with the fewest lowslots too. Tradeoff being more cargo. *shrug* seems to me that losing a slot to fit the MWD that other BRs can fit a _little_ more reasonably, just hurts too much.
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Nox Solaris
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Posted - 2007.05.16 19:14:00 -
[259]
A good fix for blockade runners would be to make them just that; blockade runners.
Complete immunity to dictor & anchored bubbles. +2 warp core str per transport level.
With that, who cares if they align slow for their size. If they can tank the initial aggro they'll live up to their name.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.05.16 20:23:00 -
[260]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 16/05/2007 20:20:55 This topic just won't die. t2>t1 is not a rule in eve. (See: t2 inertial stabilizers, faction items, etc.) Your t2 ship doesn't mean you have an automatic "i-win" ship. There are some very good t1 ships. Blockade runners are fine the way they are. Industrial ships are fine the way they are.
Those arguing that these blockade runners should be immune to warp bubbles and such are CRAZY. You are telling me that an INDUSTRIAL SHIP, should be immune to something no other ship short of a capital ship is immune to? NOT EVEN FREAKING COV-OPS SHIPS??!?!!?!?!?! GET OVER YOURSELVES. The ships do what they are supposed to do, avoid getting tackled in low-sec, THAT'S IT. Your ideas of 0.0 are worthless and you are shouting into nothingness. This topic is the everest of whining on these forums, by quite a bit.
Small, fast, agile do not fit into the category of industrial ships of any type. You can't have everything, GET OVER IT.
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Bud Heavy
G.H.O.S.T
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Posted - 2007.05.16 20:53:00 -
[261]
T2 is greater than T1 and should be that way. The T2 items that aren't are broken.
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PennySmith
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Posted - 2007.05.17 06:38:00 -
[262]
Your missing the point.
T2 Transports take a lot of time and (used) to cost a lot of money. The money I don't mind but sinking in weeks of training to a ship that is now no more useful than a well equipped Badger is just wrong.
Most are not asking for uber camp busting, go anywhere transport ships. Just a little common sense from CCP. Just make them align a little faster and get to warp quicker. For most that would suffice.
For a game to be enjoyable there must be consistency. Is anything I am training up now going to be the same in 6 months or a year ? If not what is the point of having long term goals.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.17 06:41:00 -
[263]
Indeed, had I known this is the way things would go I wouldn't have bothered training up Industrial V and Transport IV, and just skipped straight to Carriers. Which seem to do the whole "blockade running" thing 100 times better. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.05.17 09:00:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Ling Xiao Indeed, had I known this is the way things would go I wouldn't have bothered training up Industrial V and Transport IV, and just skipped straight to Carriers. Which seem to do the whole "blockade running" thing 100 times better.
I agree with carriers so prevalent, blockade runners need to be fixed so that there is at least some incentive to move things the traditional way. -
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Fluffernator
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Posted - 2007.05.17 09:08:00 -
[265]
sad that the caldari ones warp so slow :( might as well train gallente for this aspect of eve as well
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.18 18:36:00 -
[266]
Edited by: ManniXXX on 18/05/2007 18:42:17
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 16/05/2007 17:58:42
Originally by: ManniXXX I can sum my point up nicely by saying that Deep space transports can fit 2 wcs easily, and a MWD, and have better base resists and have more HP. What don't DSTs have though? Yeah that's right, agility. And neither do BRs anymore. Are we getting closer to seeing the problem now?
Feel free to try to get a deep space to even *remotely* the same agility as a blockade runner. You can even use all slots on the DS.
Hint: it has twice the mass. No matter what you fit you cannot counter that. Nevermind half the base speed.
And, as said above, BR never, ever had the agility advantage over t1 indies. They have the advantage of being able to achieve very high agility while still having WCS, a hull stronger than paper, high base speed and a MWD.
Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 16/05/2007 20:20:55 This topic just won't die. t2>t1 is not a rule in eve. (See: t2 inertial stabilizers, faction items, etc.) Your t2 ship doesn't mean you have an automatic "i-win" ship. There are some very good t1 ships. Blockade runners are fine the way they are. Industrial ships are fine the way they are.
Those arguing that these blockade runners should be immune to warp bubbles and such are CRAZY. You are telling me that an INDUSTRIAL SHIP, should be immune to something no other ship short of a capital ship is immune to? NOT EVEN FREAKING COV-OPS SHIPS??!?!!?!?!?! GET OVER YOURSELVES. The ships do what they are supposed to do, avoid getting tackled in low-sec, THAT'S IT. Your ideas of 0.0 are worthless and you are shouting into nothingness. This topic is the everest of whining on these forums, by quite a bit.
Small, fast, agile do not fit into the category of industrial ships of any type. You can't have everything, GET OVER IT.
Aramendal, I wasn't trying to make out DST's have anywhere near the agility of a BR, even in it's current state. I think both of you missed my point and the point of this thread.
The very fact that we have 2 very different types of Transport ships in the first place gives a very obvious clue. Can you fault the DST for what it is? Great tanking abilities but slow as hell. Matches the description quite well and lives up to what the devs would always have wanted it to be. You really just can't say the same for the BR. It needs to be as agile as hell otherwise, well, what's the point in it? The DST already fulfills the role of a tank, the BR has to fill the other end of the spectrum and be fast and agile. If the devs didn't want it like that then we wouldn't have had 2 classes of Transport ships in the first place.
It's pretty simple really, If i'm flying a BR i want the only way for you to be able to lock me before I warp is by having the correct support (ie sensor boosting) or by being trapped in a bubble. Otherwise the ship serves no purpose. And on this premise whether I'm in low sec or no sec serves no relevance. This doesn;t seem an unfair ask, given it's name and it's description and it's obvious intended role.
/edit I also agree that immunity to bubbles would be overpowering them. This seems like something the DST's would be more deserving of, however, I don't really think any ship should be immune.
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BuyMyToasters
Caldari Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.18 20:10:00 -
[267]
Bumpage because this thread deserves a Dev response.
I'm not planning on replacing my recently lost Viator unless something changes soon Sad Really.
el oh el sig |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.18 21:13:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Aramendel on 18/05/2007 21:13:28
Originally by: ManniXXX The very fact that we have 2 very different types of Transport ships in the first place gives a very obvious clue. Can you fault the DST for what it is? Great tanking abilities but slow as hell. Matches the description quite well and lives up to what the devs would always have wanted it to be. You really just can't say the same for the BR. It needs to be as agile as hell otherwise, well, what's the point in it? The DST already fulfills the role of a tank, the BR has to fill the other end of the spectrum and be fast and agile. If the devs didn't want it like that then we wouldn't have had 2 classes of Transport ships in the first place.
I understood your point quite well.
The problem is that it is flawed. You are saying that DS have a a lot better tank than t1 indies, but are in exchange a lot slower and have a worse agility? And that BR do not have that good tank and miss the better agility, right?
But they have a good tank! Or, better, their tank is still a lot better than that of a t1 indy. For example, an occator has 70% more armor+shield than an iterion m5 and t2 resistances on them, too.
And 50% higher speed. And 2 WCS. And twice the warp speed. And can fit a MWD without mods.
And, something which so far was totally missed: It has only half the signature. Occator has 125m, interion m5 has 230m.
With a max agility fitting the iteron5 will get into warp 13.9% faster and has a sig of 284m. The viator has one of 138.9m. Now, locktime is calculated by (10000/(sig resolution))/(asinh(target sig radius)). Meaning while the iteron5 will go into warp 13.9% faster it will also get *locked* 12.5% faster.
If we combine these two stats the iterion has a whooping 1.2% advantage in winning the "get into warp before getting locked" game.
In exchange for, to repeat myself, having only around 60% the hitpoints and base speed, slower warp speed, no MWD and no 2 WCS. AND being more expensive (3rd rig!). Yes, sounds like a really great alternative to me
You can argue that the t2 skill bonus for BR is completely worthless (and I would & did already agree there), but arguing that t1 indys are better for dodging enemies than blockade runners is flat out wrong. Period.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.19 09:50:00 -
[269]
Edited by: ManniXXX on 19/05/2007 09:51:34
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 18/05/2007 21:53:41
Originally by: ManniXXX The very fact that we have 2 very different types of Transport ships in the first place gives a very obvious clue. Can you fault the DST for what it is? Great tanking abilities but slow as hell. Matches the description quite well and lives up to what the devs would always have wanted it to be. You really just can't say the same for the BR. It needs to be as agile as hell otherwise, well, what's the point in it? The DST already fulfills the role of a tank, the BR has to fill the other end of the spectrum and be fast and agile. If the devs didn't want it like that then we wouldn't have had 2 classes of Transport ships in the first place.
I understood your point quite well.
The problem is that it is flawed. You are saying that DS have a a lot better tank than t1 indies, but are in exchange a lot slower and have a worse agility? And that BR do not have that good tank and miss the better agility, right?
But they have a good tank! Or, better, their tank is still a lot better than that of a t1 indy. For example, an occator has 70% more armor+shield than an iterion m5 and t2 resistances on them, too.
And 50% higher speed. And 2 WCS. And twice the warp speed. And can fit a MWD without mods.
And, something which so far was totally missed: It has only half the signature. Occator has 115m, interion m5 has 230m.
With a max agility fitting the iteron5 will get into warp 13.9% faster and has a sig of 284m. The viator has one of 138.9m. Now, locktime is calculated by (10000/(sig resolution))/(asinh(target sig radius)). Meaning while the iteron5 will go into warp 13.9% faster it will also get *locked* 12.5% faster.
If we combine these two stats the iterion has a whooping 1.2% advantage in winning the "get into warp before getting locked" game.
Okay, We're clearly in disagreement on how important the agility factor is. But that's good, a debate where 2 sides are being told can only be a healthy thing in a thread like this.
I would like to point out that whilst the BRs resists are better than T1, they are not at the level of T2 resists. Iirc they fall somewhere in the middle. And there is a logical reason to this. The BR shouldn't need high resists because it should be gone before anyone can lock it. This just emphasizes once again that the devs intended the ship to have very high agility.
Also you seem to be getting strung up on comparisons to T1 indies and I'm not sure why. We have had a lot of replies saying how T1 indies are better but this is just trying to beef the thread up with a bit of weight. The fact is, in some respects/attritubutes the T1s beat a BR at its current state. By no means would I rather be in one then a BR though, in any situation other than maybe high sec hauling. What i was really trying to compare was the roles of the 2 different transport ships and how well they are currently achieving their roles. Nothing else.
Quote: In exchange for, to repeat myself, having only around 60% the hitpoints and base speed, slower warp speed, no MWD and no 2 WCS. AND being more expensive (3rd rig!). Yes, sounds like a really great alternative to me
Seeing as how you repeated your points on the lovely extras the BR recieves, I'll repeat myself and say that agility is the key for a BR. All those things help, no doubt, but unless the agility is getting me into warp almost as fast I decloak then they are worthless. I mean come on, 2 WCS? Any decent dictor can and will tackle that without a problem. Not to mention any blob that has more than 2 ships with only 1 scram fitted. And how common are blobs? This is eve ;) The fast warp speed is definitely handy, however what good is that if it is taking far too long to get into warp in the first place :P
The skill book is rather overpriced. Usually the skillbook of a ship is a low % of the actual ship cost. Transport Ships is 50-100%
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.19 11:30:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Aramendel on 19/05/2007 11:39:01
Originally by: ManniXXX The fact is, in some respects/attritubutes the T1s beat a BR at its current state.
Yes. Those attributes being a) cargo size and b) agility. The latter being almost completely countered by the higher sig. To exaggerate, would you rather be in a ship which warps in 5 secs and can be locked in 1 secs or one which warps in 10 secs and can be locked in 20 secs?
The deep space get beaten with cargo size, speed and agility by t1 transports. If anything the BR have more advantages than DS vs t1 indies.
Quote: I mean come on, 2 WCS? Any decent dictor can and will tackle that without a problem.
And because of that BRs have very high base speed and a MWD. Back to gate & jump through & warp off. The higher hitpoints and resistances come in handy there too.
Getting into warp faster is the "worthless" thing here. As soon as you get the "warping" text it's too late for a dictor to drop a bubble, does not matter if you take then 2 sec or 5 sec to enter warp after that.
Quote: Not to mention any blob that has more than 2 ships with only 1 scram fitted. And how common are blobs? This is eve ;)
Which can lock you fast enough and which are in range of you, which limits the area considerably. Nevermind that with allign->mwd->cloak->mwd cycle->uncloak->warp I do not care if they have 20 1sec lock ships with 30k scrams, they won't catch me.
And even without that I would trade a 1% advantage in them locking me before warping for 2 WCS at any time of a day without even blinking. They amount of camps where 2 WCS will save me is >>>> the amount of camps where having a 1% advantage in getting into warp before getting locked will save me.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.19 12:19:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 19/05/2007 11:39:01
Yes. Those attributes being a) cargo size and b) agility. The latter being almost completely countered by the higher sig.
I would want to see a number crunch with some real figures before commenting on this. And i think you meant to say lower sig? Interesting anyway.
Quote:
Which can lock you fast enough and which are in range of you, which limits the area considerably. Nevermind that with allign->mwd->cloak->mwd cycle->uncloak->warp I do not care if they have 20 1sec lock ships with 30k scrams, they won't catch me.
And even without that I would trade a 1% advantage in them locking me before warping for 2 WCS at any time of a day without even blinking. They amount of camps where 2 WCS will save me is >>>> the amount of camps where having a 1% advantage in getting into warp before getting locked will save me.
Cloaking cancels any modules and any cycle time they have remaining now, you do carry some speed through as you slow down but its nowhere near enough to be significant.
By your judgement then, it might be better to fit some more WCS rather than agility mods if thats the way you see things. Depending on what kind of camp your up against would determine your success here. But if there are more than 10 ships waiting for me as I jump in, I know that I'll be wanting any increase in time to warp I can get. WCS also suck these days.
Bottom line, until we get a response from a dev to clarify the blockade runner's intended role and more importantly how it will fulfill that role, this thread can't move forward. If they feel the BR is fine as it is then so be it, however I think everyone agrees that they are not as effective as they used to be. The question is, are they still effective enough and that is why I'm so eager for a response.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.19 13:16:00 -
[272]
Originally by: ManniXXX I would want to see a number crunch with some real figures before commenting on this. And i think you meant to say lower sig? Interesting anyway.
Number crunch - did that already in #272, read my post more carefully. All the info you need to verfiy that is there.
And faster time-to-warp of t1 indies is countered by higher sig = faster time-to-get-locked.
Quote: Cloaking cancels any modules and any cycle time they have remaining now
It doesn't, neither on TQ nor sisi, just tested it on both servers. In either case it's behaving just like it always did, MWD keeps working for it's remaining cycle time just fine after cloaking.
Quote: By your judgement then, it might be better to fit some more WCS rather than agility mods if thats the way you see things.
No, I am saying a balance is important. An indy with all agility is relatively worthless because it's only a 1 trick pony. The same applies for one with all WCS. BR provide this balance.
Quote: Depending on what kind of camp your up against would determine your success here. But if there are more than 10 ships waiting for me as I jump in, I know that I'll be wanting any increase in time to warp I can get.
And if you have your lone sensorboosted inty - which are not really less common than 10 man blobs - you want WCS. Have a very minor disadvantage vs one camp for an HUGE advantage vs another camp seems rather worth it from my point of view.
Quote: WCS also suck these days.
To the contrary, they are now way more effective than before. For non-combat ships. They suck now for combat ships, which means that the number of stab-professionals is a lot lower now. As direct result of that people do not use 3 warp scram stilettos or similar setups that often now since vs most targets they simply do not need them anymore.
Quote: however I think everyone agrees that they are not as effective as they used to be.
They are less effective than in rev 1.0-1.3. However they are MORE effective than in RMR. A good deal more effective actually. Higher agility due to rigs. The stackingnerf made the agility advantage of t1 indies far less pronounced. The WCS nerf made people less likely to fit to counter stabs since they are less common now.
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Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.05.19 13:46:00 -
[273]
still no dev notice it seems, i pitty you. i started with transport ships recently, but did not train it beyond 1, have not bought a ship yet and recieved the skillbook as a gift, so no real losses. you have my respect for the usefullnes and maturity in this thread. (+ bumpage)
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Mynez
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.21 23:41:00 -
[274]
So...
BR with 2 istabs
OR
DST with 2 WCS, 2 istabs, 1 nanofiber?
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.22 19:56:00 -
[275]
bump un-nerf blockade runners pls, and make the transport skill do something more useful (a tanking bonus isn't exactly a bright idea on BR.. maaaaybe on DST but not on BR)
and more PG or more lowslots on crane, its ridiculous having to fit a PG module just to be able to add a shield booster (they get bonus from transport skill remember ? )together with mwd, thus leaving only one measly lowslot free.. dumb dumb dumb
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.24 02:21:00 -
[276]
up we go someone will notice us eventually
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.05.24 06:40:00 -
[277]
they wont answer...
probably because they dont know what to do.
but keep on the bumping. sooner or later (probably later) the devs will need to give it some attention
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.24 07:41:00 -
[278]
At least DSTs are good for high-sec autopiloting with valuable cargo (not a good target for opportunity suicide ganking).
But the Blockade Runner is pointless for that __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
PennySmith
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Posted - 2007.05.25 05:52:00 -
[279]
Bump
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.25 13:26:00 -
[280]
Aramendal, I will try to check the cloaking/cycle issue for myself soon, you have intruigued me as I'm sure when I tried this the cycle ended when you activated the cloak. The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought :) We are talking about bog standard cloaks here and not stealths correct?
Also, I can't comment as to how BR's compare now to RMR as I did not own one back then. I would appreciate some input from people who did.
Good stuff, Having these forums to debate on really adds something to the game for me. Keep it coming
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Augeas
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Posted - 2007.05.25 13:47:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Augeas on 25/05/2007 13:46:40
Quote: The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought
This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did...
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.25 15:37:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Augeas Edited by: Augeas on 25/05/2007 13:46:40
Quote: The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought
This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did...
lol there goes the MWD argument out the window.. in your face (to whoever advocated BRs as being ok due to possibility to fit MWD ... PWNTTTTT )
becomes obvious they made some stealth nerfs but didnt even realise they would utterly gimp BR's who relied on some disparate elements (like un-nerfed nanos, MWD in cloak and a little more natural agility it seems) to be able to barely survive a small gatecamp
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:03:00 -
[283]
And another day goes by .. just seen a BR around so they are not extinct (yet)
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.26 18:45:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Aramendel on 26/05/2007 18:50:52
Originally by: Augeas This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did...
And let me guess - January was the first time you ever tested it? You do not understand the mechanic.
OF COURCE the cloak lowers your speed. Noone said otherwise. However this does not matter here. The point is that your speed with MWD & cloak active ~= your speed with MWD & cloak inactive. In short, the cloak speed reduction and the MWD speed boost efficiently cancel each other out. This means you can activate MWD & cloak and accelerate & allign without being targetable and once the MWD cycle finishes disable cloak and you'll have > 80% speed, are fully alligned and therefore able to instawarp right after decloaking.
And I just tested this AGAIN just to make sure and it still works perfectly fine on test.
Originally by: ManniXXX The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought :) We are talking about bog standard cloaks here and not stealths correct?
Thw MWD speed boost and cloak speed reduction efficiently cancel each other out, but thats the whole point here as described above. And I am talking about the improved cloak, the thing between cov ops and prototype.
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Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2007.05.28 12:57:00 -
[285]
Bumpage, cos I want to fly my Crane again...
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Gunzo San
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Posted - 2007.05.29 08:06:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Gunzo San on 29/05/2007 08:09:58 Edited by: Gunzo San on 29/05/2007 08:08:40 BUMP! Yup, was pretty exciting busting camps in 0.0.The exhiliration factor alone made BR worth training. Now its more than likely certain death.
Gunz
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Ulii
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Posted - 2007.05.30 11:50:00 -
[287]
bump?
ah, ok, why not
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.31 17:08:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 26/05/2007 18:50:52
Originally by: Augeas This is correct - activating a T2 improved cloak on a Prowler immediately cancels the speed boost from the MWD. It's been like this since January, at least, so I don't know why people keep saying that the speed boost remains. If only it did...
And let me guess - January was the first time you ever tested it? You do not understand the mechanic.
OF COURCE the cloak lowers your speed. Noone said otherwise. However this does not matter here. The point is that your speed with MWD & cloak active ~= your speed with MWD & cloak inactive. In short, the cloak speed reduction and the MWD speed boost efficiently cancel each other out. This means you can activate MWD & cloak and accelerate & allign without being targetable and once the MWD cycle finishes disable cloak and you'll have > 80% speed, are fully alligned and therefore able to instawarp right after decloaking.
And I just tested this AGAIN just to make sure and it still works perfectly fine on test.
Originally by: ManniXXX The actual cycle continues as it would if you had disabled a module manually however the speed boost ceases instantly, at least this is what I thought :) We are talking about bog standard cloaks here and not stealths correct?
Thw MWD speed boost and cloak speed reduction efficiently cancel each other out, but thats the whole point here as described above. And I am talking about the improved cloak, the thing between cov ops and prototype.
The advantage you are describing from the cloak bears no relevance to the MWD discussion. Aligning then warping after uncloaking would work with or without the MWD.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.31 22:34:00 -
[289]
Originally by: ManniXXX The advantage you are describing from the cloak bears no relevance to the MWD discussion. Aligning then warping after uncloaking would work with or without the MWD.
Wrong.
Because without the MWD you will be at 25% speed, meaning you have to accellerate to 80% first. With the MWD you will be already at full speed after uncloaking, meaing you do not have to accellerate, meaning you can warp instantly.
That is a major difference. Have you even bothered to test it? Its rather obvious. If you have to accellerate first an instalock ship will get you.
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.01 00:38:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: ManniXXX The advantage you are describing from the cloak bears no relevance to the MWD discussion. Aligning then warping after uncloaking would work with or without the MWD.
Wrong.
Because without the MWD you will be at 25% speed, meaning you have to accellerate to 80% first. With the MWD you will be already at full speed after uncloaking, meaing you do not have to accellerate, meaning you can warp instantly.
That is a major difference. Have you even bothered to test it? Its rather obvious. If you have to accellerate first an instalock ship will get you.
You won't be anywhere near full speed after uncloaking, I thought this is what we has established? The MWD becomes useless as soon as you activate the cloak. You have a little bit of slow down time from the initial speed boost of the MWD but its nowhere near enough time to align, uncloak and warp again.
And this is all irrelevant in a bubble anyway (where the MWD REALLY would be useful if it worked for one cycle after cloaking :P)
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.06.01 01:12:00 -
[291]
I only tried this after revelatons with a proto cloak and have to say I found the same thing as manni describes, no where near enough distance is covered in a bubble.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.01 02:16:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Aramendel on 01/06/2007 02:28:09
Originally by: ManniXXX You won't be anywhere near full speed after uncloaking, I thought this is what we has established?
No. In fact I have said it now like 3-4 times in a row that you are at full speed after decloaking. A good deal over full speed actually.
Quote: The MWD becomes useless as soon as you activate the cloak. You have a little bit of slow down time from the initial speed boost of the MWD but its nowhere near enough time to align, uncloak and warp again.
Wrong! For the Xth time.
Maybe a step-by-step to get finally through to you. Since you quite obviously are unwilling or unable to test it yourself (and if it is the latter, why are you even commenting about a ship which you have never ever flown yourself?).
The prorator of my alt has a top speed of 257.5 m/s. This means it has to acellerate to 206 m/s to be able to warp.
When I use the MWD it has a top speed of 1799 m/s. When I activate his improved cloak this is reduced to 25% of this which is 449.75 m/s. This will be achieved easily in the MWD cycle while cloaking.
As soon as the MWD deactivates you only have to uncloak before your speed falls below 206 m/s (this gives you a 5 second window) and hit warp.
You need to use an Improved cloak for this to work efficiently, though, and NOT the basic prototype cloak, but I mentioned this already.
Seriously. This is a technique which I myself used already X times, which works 100% at all times and which is extremly easy to do yourself. Do I really need to FRAPS it to make you finally admit that you are wrong here?
Quote: And this is all irrelevant in a bubble anyway (where the MWD REALLY would be useful if it worked for one cycle after cloaking :P)
Obviously. And it's not like I said already x times, too, that in such a situation you can MWD (without cloak) back to the gate and jump again. In which case the high base speed, resistances and base hitpoints of the BR help. Those "little details" which are "not important", you know?
Originally by: Sen Goku I only tried this after revelatons with a proto cloak and have to say I found the same thing as manni describes, no where near enough distance is covered in a bubble.
I never, ever, not once said it is a way to get safely out of bubbles. It is a way to achieve instawarp without being lockable. For bubbles, as said above, the best way to to head back with the MWD without cloaking to the gate where you came from.
Also...prototype cloak...maybe use an improved cloak? It fits just as well and gives you as "tiny" detail 250% the speed as a protype cloak?
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.06.01 06:36:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Sen Goku I only tried this after revelatons with a proto cloak and have to say I found the same thing as manni describes, no where near enough distance is covered in a bubble.
I never, ever, not once said it is a way to get safely out of bubbles. It is a way to achieve instawarp without being lockable. For bubbles, as said above, the best way to to head back with the MWD without cloaking to the gate where you came from.
Also...prototype cloak...maybe use an improved cloak? It fits just as well and gives you as "tiny" detail 250% the speed as a protype cloak?
Yeah you're right there, my mistake. I haven't tried with an improved. I have heard that it is/was possible to clear a bubble on the inertia using this method though (obviously not with a proto ).
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.03 18:34:00 -
[294]
up we go main issue here is not mwd anyway, the mwd thing is a workaround developed by players blockade runners are TOO SLOW
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PennySmith
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Posted - 2007.06.04 06:45:00 -
[295]
Bump because as the poster above said The Devs should respond to this.
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Levrin Atischa
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Posted - 2007.06.04 12:26:00 -
[296]
i agree its easier to fly a deepspacetransport than a blockade runner in most situations. But my main problem is with the ship bonus for tanking.... Its for active tanking on a indy... it would really help if it was a bit related to its role. Something to do with agilaty or speed or cargo space or well something if it has to tanking give it a passive tanking boost.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.04 12:59:00 -
[297]
Originally by: NIkis And another day goes by .. just seen a BR around so they are not extinct (yet)
Oh, my alt still has her Viator. It's been quite a useful mission/ratting support ship.
I wouldn't use it for actual lockade running though. In fact I mainly use it because I haven't lost it yet. I wouldn't bother replacing it when an Ity5 with 2 istabs, 2 WCS and an Overdrive works just as well at about 5% of the price.
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.06.04 13:13:00 -
[298]
Change the ship bonus to an agility bonus or mass reduction. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Fenren
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Posted - 2007.06.05 11:16:00 -
[299]
why, o why cant a dev at least say hi in here?
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.06 11:24:00 -
[300]
they must be busy nerfing stuff
bumporz
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.09 14:01:00 -
[301]
Le bump strikes again Now really .. these ships need a helping hand
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.11 23:16:00 -
[302]
Le bump .. again Blockade runners are brrroken!
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Wynn Starsider
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Posted - 2007.06.13 05:16:00 -
[303]
I am the corp transporter and now that there are carriers in the fleet my crane just sits there. I roll this toon to move items in 0.0 I didn't know that I need to fly cap ships to do that.
Maybe with heat they could let a wcs get you out of a bubble but pop the wcs?
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Ulii
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Posted - 2007.06.13 07:13:00 -
[304]
that would make bubbles quite useless for gatecamps, dont you think?
oh, by the way: TUX FIX THE BR!!!
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Wynn Starsider
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.06.13 07:20:00 -
[305]
Make it a WCS that cost alot and only fit in to BR then its not that bad.
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Alrich
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Posted - 2007.06.13 13:05:00 -
[306]
it would be a nice module indeed :P
perhaps swich the two wcs points for a bubble immunity? that would make them usefull
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.13 15:49:00 -
[307]
I'm curious if there is ONE character on the whole server with Transport skill leveled to 5. Really doubt it.
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Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.06.13 16:04:00 -
[308]
i will deffinately NOT rise the skill further, shame i wasted corp money for the skill... -- Tempus fugit -- |
Sathamarid
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Posted - 2007.06.13 19:11:00 -
[309]
I just trained Blockade Runners, and now I find they used to work much better. Lame. Signed.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.16 08:46:00 -
[310]
Lame. Bump.
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Klaim Nething
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Posted - 2007.06.17 04:03:00 -
[311]
Yea i finally got to fly a viator and while its great with the added speed, its quite underwhelming. A buff to these ships would be great (and put me back in business).
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.18 18:33:00 -
[312]
still wanna hear about someone who trained transport ships to 5
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Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2007.06.25 16:15:00 -
[313]
anything new on this topic?
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Tzarr Inzaghi
Path of Light R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.26 16:56:00 -
[314]
/ signed
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.26 17:13:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Ahro Thariori anything new on this topic?
My crane still can't fit a MWD without a rig or a fittings mod.
But it does still look pretty cool, so it's not all bad.
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Augeas
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Posted - 2007.06.26 17:58:00 -
[316]
Quote: Shocked still wanna hear about someone who trained transport ships to 5 Shocked
Do people even train Transport Ships to II?
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flyerken
Gallente Darklite inc Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:24:00 -
[317]
It's a real shame that the iteron V outperforms the T2 transports. It's faster in warp then a blockade runner. It has more low slots (so more room for I-stabs) It has more rigg slots (so more agilty riggs can be added).
All T2 transports could use a Buff as they are not worth the extra cost.
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Tito Taneki
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.27 13:56:00 -
[318]
Edited by: Tito Taneki on 27/06/2007 13:56:28
Originally by: Et alii
The only thing u gain is +2 warp core strenght and some resists and the +2 is something u can get due to the extra lows.
You get a mwd, which e.g. doesn't fit on a sigil. So you get the ability to mwd back to the gate and to use the cloak/mwd tactics that someone described and that I use everyday for months already to run away from pirates. ( Remember one group chasing me for 3 jumps and then giving up and one of them saying: 'Nice trick !' and that he does the same, when he's flying blockade-runner ) So well, I fly a double expanded viator without rigs between low sec and high-sec everyday I play, so with two tech-2 expanders it's even more a brick than the nifty setups that are described here, and I haven't lost a viator so far, although I had 2 or 3 tight situations in 0.0 like jumping into a 10-man dictor camp, mwd'ing back to the gate, getting webbed and jumping out in structure.
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Sir Howard
Lynx Frontier Inc. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.27 14:54:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Augeas
Quote: Shocked still wanna hear about someone who trained transport ships to 5 Shocked
Do people even train Transport Ships to II?
Nope...
/and I'll sign the thread while I'm at it
"This is a bad idea wrapped in a horrible plan and shipped in a ******** box"
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.27 15:13:00 -
[320]
I trained my hauler alt to transport ships 3 before realising that it appeard to be a waste of time when I looked at his occators bonuses a little closer <_< I still use the viator as a loot ship when I am out ratting. I just have the hauler pilot keep range on my BS, and as I salvage the wrecks he tractors them in and scoops any loot. I also use it for making short (very short, 5-6 jumps) fuel runs for POS emergencies.
But overall, /signed! -=^=-
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ManniXXX
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.27 16:53:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Tito Taneki Edited by: Tito Taneki on 27/06/2007 14:12:23 Edited by: Tito Taneki on 27/06/2007 13:56:28
Originally by: Et alii
The only thing u gain is +2 warp core strenght and some resists and the +2 is something u can get due to the extra lows.
You get a mwd, which e.g. doesn't fit on a sigil. So you get the ability to mwd back to the gate and to use the cloak/mwd tactics that someone described and that I use everyday for months already to run away from pirates. ( Remember one group chasing me for 3 jumps and then giving up and one of them saying: 'Nice trick !' and that he does the same, when he's flying blockade-runner ) So well, I fly a double expanded viator without rigs between low sec and high-sec everyday I play, so with two tech-2 expanders it's even more a brick than the nifty setups that are described here, and I haven't lost a viator so far, although I had 2 or 3 tight situations in 0.0 like jumping into a 10-man dictor camp, mwd'ing back to the gate, getting webbed and jumping out in structure. ( So yes, maybe for those things they could need a bit more agility. I assume everyone, who uses blockaderunners, has also trained his navigation skills up, like evasive manouvering. )
Firstly, great to see this thread still up at the top(ish) and secondly, yes, in low-sec the BR is pretty damn invincible for the sole reason that bubbles and sphers can't be deployed.
I am very eager for a dev response, it has been over 3 months now with no word. If this is the way the nerf was intended and if BRs are destined to stay this way forever than fair enuf, but we at least have a right to know.
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Tzarr Inzaghi
Path of Light R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.28 14:24:00 -
[322]
I agree Blockade runners need something to offset the nerfs.
/signed
Any DEV response on the blockade runner problem yet?
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Mad Amos
WMFRR Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.29 20:45:00 -
[323]
After reading about BRs in another thread I got a bit excited. Then I did a search and found this thread. Now I am sad. Devs please respond.
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Vampie
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Posted - 2007.06.29 21:10:00 -
[324]
Well, not to 5 but 4..... I trained transports to 4 for the tanking bonus... this way I dont have to worry about sending my Crane in with the BSs for ratting/missions/plexes, and if things get wierd, can always get out, since not very often you get 2 points on you.
Also use a tanked impel for plexes.... now that is one scary tank... 7 lows for tanking makes me a happy hauling hoe for the corp mates.
But getting back on topic of Blockade Runners, they do need some love, even if its only getting his resistances to be the same as the deep space transports, at least, when you get stopped by a bubble, and takes you ages to align once you make it outside, you still stand a chance of surviving the 10-15 sec it will take you to get under way again. A little more pg/cpu would not hurt at all either..... It would be nice to be able to fit them with T2 mods without having to waste the rig slots for fitting mods or lows for cpus.. its not like they have lots of extra slots as is....
Vampie
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MasaMan
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Posted - 2007.06.30 09:57:00 -
[325]
Ignoring all the Mods/Rigs stuff . The fundamental issue is that itÆs pointless to get Transport ships above lvl1 for BRs this is broken by anyoneÆs definition
ItÆs also frustrating that this issue is still simmering away, other nerfs/fixes have come and gone, brand new fresh content has been brought out but we have not even been given recognition from the devs
It must be a minority issue granted but they must also be aware of it
Any devs trained transport ships to lvl2?
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Codfather
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Posted - 2007.07.01 07:18:00 -
[326]
Yea CCP is gonna make fix blockade runners, and maybe we're gonna see Tech 2 warp core stabs any day now too, hahahaha.
Blockade runners will never be fixed period. Name one change that has ever been made that makes it more difficult to catch a ship. Its a galaxy of mind boggling size where you can't go anywhere without a gatecamp, thats the way the game is, just accept it.
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.02 02:13:00 -
[327]
*yawn*
Back from a long mountains trip... nice to see the thread going
Changes that make it more difficult to catch a ship umm let me think about that :) maybe the introduction of agility/mass reduction rigs ? even heat .. with its +50% bonus on MWD/AB speeds (well provided you are lucky and don't fry the said module in the process)
And this ship's role is exactly that .. escaping camps (be they 3-man or 50=man camps, it should have a better chance than usual ships do. and the +2 WCS bonus isn't exactly providing much considering the best warp scramblers can reach that on one module alone, and the BRs have crap lows (compared even to their tech 1 counterparts). Yes other ships have high resists too (and BRs resists are rather low anyway compared even to DSTs), they have some decent cargo holds (consider the 'hauler' pilgrims case), and the transport ships skill is so great that 90% (?) of the people don't even bother training it past level 1.. so what exactly do the BRs have to make them useable for their purpose ?
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:05:00 -
[328]
BRs are just fine (read overpowered) .. move along
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NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.06 11:21:00 -
[329]
Originally by: NIkis BRs are just fine (read overpowered) .. move along
looks like some people took that for real
BR .. need some help
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WillisCorto
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Posted - 2007.07.14 17:47:00 -
[330]
Is there any point in keep bumping this thread - CCP obviously have other things on their mind.
Oh before I forget - Give me my ISK and training time back please.
This isn't Frigate 2 - 3. BR take a long time to train and (did) cost a lot of ISK.
FIX THEM or stop calling them blockade runners. All I ask.
Bump
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.14 22:57:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Codfather Name one change that has ever been made that makes it more difficult to catch a ship.
Warp to zero. But ... *shrug* I think we've more or less played this thread out.
Summary is, BRs need a rethink - they don't need 'active' tanking, they need mobility, and the ability to survive a 'few volleys'. Which to me means, shorten the slot count even further, so they're all short on space to fit nanos/stabs/midslots stuff. And significantly improve their speed and agility.
Oh, and please please please. 2 highslots? My Crane got relegated to 'mission hauler' until I realised that a hauler with a tractor _and_ a salvager would be all together more awesome.
Oh, and the Crane still needs to be able to fit a MWD II without fittings mods.
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Ruby 3Jane
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Posted - 2007.07.22 06:44:00 -
[332]
Bump
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.07.22 12:20:00 -
[333]
Even flat out hp (or resists) bonuses would be a lot more useful to blocade runners than current active tanking bonuses. Altho ofc I would prefer bonus to agility per trasports ships level or even to warp speed if previous is impossible.
Still annoyed that blocade runners can't run as good as they should in my opinion.
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Yanjul Slagenhoffen
NovaeDyne Industries Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:59:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Yanjul Slagenhoffen on 22/07/2007 19:58:32 I've just today reached the goal of being able to fly Caldari Transports.
My Crane cant fit a t1 MWD without the use of a powergrid module or rig! Every other can.
And I think they need more 'blockade running' ooomph, as in more HP, or bubble immunity, or better MWD capablities.
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:25:00 -
[335]
This thread deserves a free bump!
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.23 13:29:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Yanjul Slagenhoffen Edited by: Yanjul Slagenhoffen on 22/07/2007 19:58:32 I've just today reached the goal of being able to fly Caldari Transports.
My Crane cant fit a t1 MWD without the use of a powergrid module or rig! Every other can.
And I think they need more 'blockade running' ooomph, as in more HP, or bubble immunity, or better MWD capablities.
It can fit a t1 mwd with engineering 5, but you will have exactly 0.0 PG after that.
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DouglasBadar
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Posted - 2007.08.01 06:39:00 -
[337]
Bump
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BuyMyToasters
Caldari Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:20:00 -
[338]
x Signed.... again....
Great suggestions in this thread. I'm all for giving each BR a 5% per level bonus to agility. The other bonus could be something fun that is racially derived. For example, the Amarr BR could have a bonus to armor HP or resists (10%?). The Caldari BR could get a bonus to shield HP or resists (again, 10%?). The Minnie BR could use a bonus to max speed (might be overpowered, maybe a 5%). The Gallente BR is a tough one. Maybe a bonus to cargohold capacity following the tradition of the Iteron (5-10%?). Furthermore the Crane should get a slight bump in PG.
Another idea I was kicking around was a bonus to ECM burst. A static bonus could be given to ECM Burst cap usage, although I never found that to be much of an issue. If I wasn't safe after 2 bursts I was probably dead. A 5% per level bonus to ECM Burst strength, range, or both might be fun.
el oh el sig |
Trojanman190
Caldari Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.02 14:19:00 -
[339]
Negative on the ECM burst idea... won't that give you an agro timer? Can't jump through a gate like that.
I do like 5% to agility. Would be very very nice. Even if that is the only change.
I dont think the prowler needs a speed increase, maybe 5% less mass. 5% to speed would make it kind overpowered. Less mass would make it faster, a boost, but more vulernable to web, not a boost, so it would be balanced. The decrease in mass would help it warp a teeny bit faster but not so much so that everyone wants to train a prowler.
Again, if all they do add an agility bonus ill be happy.. but 5% duznt sound like enough. At transports 4 thats only 20%. They should be just as agile as before. I'm thinking a 10% agility increase per level. That would also give a reason for dedicated traders to train it to level 5.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.02 14:37:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Trojanman190 Again, if all they do add an agility bonus ill be happy.. but 5% duznt sound like enough. At transports 4 thats only 20%. They should be just as agile as before. I'm thinking a 10% agility increase per level. That would also give a reason for dedicated traders to train it to level 5.
A prowler with 2 istabs got a reduction of inertia * mass of 0.454 with the old istabs. With the new istabs its 0.66. With a 5% agility it would be 0.496 at ship skill lvl 5, which is fine.
10% would be far too much.
Best would be IMO -5% inertia and +5% MWD efficiency per transport ship lvl.
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Kingdoc
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.02 16:06:00 -
[341]
Edited by: Kingdoc on 02/08/2007 16:07:17 I just lost a crane with 200 mill worth of cargo in the hold to a 4 man gatecamp with no bubble that was taking fire from gate guns!
If it is imposable or unprofitable to deliver goods to/from 0.0 then people will not go there. Dosen't CCP want people to move out of empire and into 0.0?
Should i petition the loss of my crane and its cargo because it could not align and warp fast enough after the patch/nerf? Wouldent that make it CCPs fault and they should reimburse me? What if we all petitioned ccp for everything we lost in a "blockade runner" since the patch?
p.s. There are many reasons people don't just "use a carrier" to move stuff from deep 0.0 to empire. I, for one, cant afford one and am the only American in my corp... therefore i work alone most of the time. I also cant afford another 15 bucks a month just to have a cyno alt. And if i do happen to catch my corps carrier pilot online It can take as much as 2 weeks before the stuff gets to empire and i can retrieve it. It should not take 2 weeks and 2 people to do something i can do alone in 30 minutes IF I HAD A BLOCKADE RUNNER THAT WORKED! ================================== Wars of aggression are popular nowadays with those nations convinced that only victory and conquest could improve their material well-being. ~Ludwig von Mises |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.02 16:29:00 -
[342]
- doubleclick in the direction of you warp target - hit MWD - hit improved cloak - wait for MWD to disable - disable cloak - hit warp button
Unless they manage to uncloak you in the 10 sec window while you have 1 MWD cycle there is no way at all to catch you without a bubble. You'll be visible for less than 1 sec before you cloak and 10 sec later before you warp, impossible to lock you there.
(Yes, I know that the crane (and only the crane) cannot fit a MWD + cloak, so what? Use a fitting mod or rig.)
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Augeas
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Posted - 2007.08.02 16:45:00 -
[343]
Quote: - doubleclick in the direction of you warp target - hit MWD - hit improved cloak - wait for MWD to disable - disable cloak- hit warp button
How does this work? As soon as you hit cloak, the MWD disables - or, at least, you stop accelerating. So do you wait until the MWD cycle would have ended, then uncloak and warp? If you wait too long then I suppose that your speed upon uncloak is less than 75% max, preventing instawarp. But if you cloak immediately after hitting MWD, do you receive sufficient speed boost to be above 75% max speed upon uncloak?
I could actually try this out myself ingame I suppose...
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.02 16:55:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Augeas How does this work? As soon as you hit cloak, the MWD disables - or, at least, you stop accelerating.
It doesn't.
It simply combines your MWD speed bonus with the cloak speed reduction. Improved cloak is -75% (a 0.25 modifier), t1 MWD is +500% (a 6.00 modifer). So you get 6 * 0.25 -> 1.5 a max speed of around 150% of your top speed while cloaked.
Quote: So do you wait until the MWD cycle would have ended, then uncloak and warp? If you wait too long then I suppose that your speed upon uncloak is less than 75% max, preventing instawarp. But if you cloak immediately after hitting MWD, do you receive sufficient speed boost to be above 75% max speed upon uncloak?
You have around 5 seconds to disable the cloak after the MWD disables before you fall below 75% speed. You have to be really lagged or have a nonexistant reaction speed if you cannot do that
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Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education
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Posted - 2007.08.02 17:22:00 -
[345]
ccp pls fix blockade runners as they are broken now. fix the bonuses and fix the agility.
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Myra Rodan
Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.08.02 17:54:00 -
[346]
I have to agree. I think that changing the ship bonus from a shield / armor boost bonus to an agility bonus would make this ship much more functional. Enabling those of us who don't have huge corp backing to be able to fairly safely move small amounts of cargo from 0.0 to empire or the other way would be a great help. Especailly since that is the only reason I trained to fly the ship.
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.03 01:08:00 -
[347]
The longest thread gets what they want lately. But this thread is not about greed , boost or stuff. We need FIX.
I can only fly Prowler , so some of my points will be about her.
* Prowler needs +15 PG atleast to be able to fit t2 MWD. (oh and crane also need PG increase , thats for sure)
* All blockade runners definitely need Agility increase, and mass reduction.
* Remove all tanking bonus from Blockade Runner Class. I ve seen no one gain a benefit from that bonus practicaly, unless they using the ship on a radical role.
* Replace by , %5 bonus agility , %5 mass reduction , +1 warpcore stab per level would be my suggestions. Pick one or two.But i would definitely go for agility.
* Take at least 120 hp from armor , add it to shield.That will still keep her shield lower than a Crane.
And yea , i ll keep BUMPIN this thread.
Regards, haq aan
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Peen Long
Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.03 09:52:00 -
[348]
Bump for a fix. I just finished transport lvl1 for a crane only to find out that they've been screwed up since I looked at them first a long time ago.
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Kingdoc
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.03 15:52:00 -
[349]
whats is this thread doing off page one?!?
You get right back there young man and dont come off till i see yellow lines! ================================== Wars of aggression are popular nowadays with those nations convinced that only victory and conquest could improve their material well-being. ~Ludwig von Mises |
Kingdoc
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.05 05:26:00 -
[350]
bump ================================== Wars of aggression are popular nowadays with those nations convinced that only victory and conquest could improve their material well-being. ~Ludwig von Mises |
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.05 21:56:00 -
[351]
BUUUUMPPPAAGEE!!!
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Peen Long
Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.08 03:41:00 -
[352]
Knock-knock. Who's there? Bump.
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Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2007.08.14 12:16:00 -
[353]
C'mon, lets get these useful again, I can't even remember where my Crane is atm...
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WillisCorto
|
Posted - 2007.08.15 16:42:00 -
[354]
Bump
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.15 17:56:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Harlequ1n C'mon, lets get these useful again, I can't even remember where my Crane is atm...
Transport ships skill to +5% resists, -5% mass. 20% more grid on all of them.
Then I'll be flying my Crane again.
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Gort
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:59:00 -
[356]
These folks have a point.
Bring back the Millennium Falcons! You know you want to....
G
-- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Unvisibility
|
Posted - 2007.08.15 20:14:00 -
[357]
Much as I agree with this thread, don't you realise yet, after 5 months of it being ignored completely, that there is absolutely ZERO prospect of a response from CCP about this?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:02:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Unvisibility Much as I agree with this thread, don't you realise yet, after 5 months of it being ignored completely, that there is absolutely ZERO prospect of a response from CCP about this?
Diemost is getting lovin', after a thread about it...
Ok, so that's probably nothing to do with the threat, but we can dream.
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Unvisibility
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Posted - 2007.08.16 08:30:00 -
[359]
Originally by: James Lyrus Diemost is getting lovin', after a thread about it...
Ok, so that's probably nothing to do with the threat, but we can dream.
Good point, worth another bump :P
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transport monkey
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Posted - 2007.08.17 00:45:00 -
[360]
is this ting still not fixed?
damn serious it's time!
and so another bum
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Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2007.08.18 13:11:00 -
[361]
Its not as if we're asking for the moon ona stick, just for a ship that does what it says on the tin...
Bumpity bump
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.21 10:53:00 -
[362]
BR inertia mod got reduced from 1.00 to 0.55 on sisi. In other words, BRs go into warp with the same setup in 55% of the old time.
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Augeas
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:23:00 -
[363]
Wow. Maybe the fixbat will even make its way to the Caldari railboats one day?
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Contralto
Department Of Health and Social Security
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:00:00 -
[364]
From yesterdays Dev blog
Blockade runners have not been living up to their name as they take too long to align for warp. As a result, their agility modifier has been reduced (which makes them more agile than before). However, deep space transports have not been changed.
* Agility: 0.55 (-0.45)
Linky
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Peanut Swsh
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:03:00 -
[365]
tbh, I don't see a problem, a nanofit prowler will get outta any gatecamp i have seen, they can easily mwd back to gate and jump out before the badies can tackle it.
and clever use of cloak + mwd, still gets you outta most dictor camps. unlikely to get you out of a large bubble thou.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 14:05:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Contralto From yesterdays Dev blog
Blockade runners have not been living up to their name as they take too long to align for warp. As a result, their agility modifier has been reduced (which makes them more agile than before). However, deep space transports have not been changed.
* Agility: 0.55 (-0.45)
Linky
W00h00!
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.21 16:47:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Contralto From yesterdays Dev blog
Blockade runners have not been living up to their name as they take too long to align for warp. As a result, their agility modifier has been reduced (which makes them more agile than before). However, deep space transports have not been changed.
* Agility: 0.55 (-0.45)
Linky
W00h00!
It's good stuff. Just ... please, just a _little_ more P/G on the crane? Please? Please?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.21 21:51:00 -
[368]
Nearly there, but I figure that what's really needed is just a couple more powergrid on the Crane (and probably the others really) to allow for 'convenient' fitting of MWD. Seems unreasonable to have to fit a power grid mod. Well, I actually don't but only if I want to do MWD, 2 nanos and nothing else - otherwise I don't have enough grid to fill my mids.
*shrug* posted a 'why the Crane needs 4 grid' here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=579820
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