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Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:39:00 -
[61]
Hire some mercs to come to your aid. Or make use of warp to zero. You have joined a game where one of the key design points is you are never safe anywhere. Keep your eyes open and you'll be fine.
----------------------------------------- Explosion Matrix: Our Name Makes No Sense |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:39:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Zirth You simply can't fight back, there's privateers in nanophoons, battleships, anything really, with their numbers, experience, and gatecamps, you stand no chance.
How about getting in touch with some of the other corps that are at war with Privateers?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:53:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 12/02/2007 13:54:22
I don't know if this question was already asked: Why doesn't PA go to low-sec or 0.0, when they want to fight?
The answer is obvious: Because they actually don't want to fight, but easy targets who cannot hit back in carebear land. In 0.0 they might be shot at, and they hate this. Therefore they don't go there.
They don't extend this right to their victims, though. While PA can avoid the regions which are to dangerous for them, the Empire haulers and miners can't leave Empire.
It's a very doublesided reasoning here from PA, in the end always summing up to "we want easy risk free kills, therefore we operate in Empire", and "no thanks, low-sec or 0.0 is way to dangerous for us, therefore we stay out of there".
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Another bit from MMOG history. In its early days, when Ultima Online and its producing company Origin created the industry from scratch, we had the same situation there. Lots of PKs running loose, killing all the carebears who only wanted to roleplay, or had fun lumberjacking and mining. It got that worse, that Origin became concerned to loose the majority of its customers, because the majority were the carebears, and over time many of them actually cancelled their accounts, and spread the word that UO is not playable at all, you will be griefed all the time.
In the end, Origin was forced to introduce Trammel, something like high sec, only with the strict rule of no unconsentional PvP, to rescue its product. The PvPers got Felucca, a mirror of the same world, were they could kill each other as they wanted. Soon the PvPers complained, that Felucca was totally deserted, no one to kill over there at all. Trammel on the other hand was a vibrant community with lots of players and interaction. The PKs hated that but couldn't do anything against it. Ultima Online's sales increased again and the product became a huge success, until Origin was sold by its owner to EA. Then the decline began...
I had the impression when EVE was designed, that high-sec was designed with that mind-set. To provide - at least a relatively - safe haven for carebears, which - after all - are the majority of potential customers and active playerbase. I'm not talking about the occasional war dec, or the suicide bombers, which adds a bit spice to Empire. The ingenious idea of PA to use the war system systematically circumvents this design, and makes it obsolete. That cannot be within the intention of the game designers, since the experience with UO has clearly shown, that free reign for PKs will endanger the economical success of that product over time.
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:14:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Raivi Hire some mercs to come to your aid. Or make use of warp to zero. You have joined a game where one of the key design points is you are never safe anywhere. Keep your eyes open and you'll be fine.
How warp to zero can help if the gate is camped from the other side? The only thing that partly helps is cloaking and warpstabs. But it is tiny hope. If the camp is big your indy can be instapopped before you aligned to warp. I cannot afford such risk to my cargo.
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Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:27:00 -
[65]
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
Originally by: Raivi Hire some mercs to come to your aid. Or make use of warp to zero. You have joined a game where one of the key design points is you are never safe anywhere. Keep your eyes open and you'll be fine.
How warp to zero can help if the gate is camped from the other side? The only thing that partly helps is cloaking and warpstabs. But it is tiny hope. If the camp is big your indy can be instapopped before you aligned to warp. I cannot afford such risk to my cargo.
It's extremely rare that the Privateers have a camp that can instapop a mildly tanked indy. Scouts are also your friend, either your own or a friend traveling with you. If you see a large camp ahead, just take another route. Generally avoiding the most traveled routes is also a good idea. No sizable privateers camp is going to wait at a low traffic gate for long without getting bored. There are no tactics available to the Privateers which you cannot counter with some effort and forethought. The idea of calling on other alliances and corps hostile to the privateers is also a great one. Many roleplaying corps are pvpers who live in empire. I'm sure PIE would love to be informed of the location of a group of privateers, as would for instance the Star Fraction (if they're still wardecced).
----------------------------------------- Explosion Matrix: Our Name Makes No Sense |
Le Skunk
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:27:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 12/02/2007 13:54:22
I don't know if this question was already asked: Why doesn't PA go to low-sec or 0.0, when they want to fight?
The answer is obvious: Because they actually don't want to fight, but easy targets who cannot hit back in carebear land. In 0.0 they might be shot at, and they hate this. Therefore they don't go there.
Oh dear here we go again. We dont go to fight in 0.0 because we fight in empire.
Camps in 0.0 involve bubbles which you cant escape from (99% of the time) and I consider this unfair. I like to give people a chacne to get away. If you are smart and have semi decent reflexes you can get away from an empire gatecamp.
Fleet battles in 0.0 are TERMINALLY BORING. Warp in - all snipe - warp out repeat.
POS bombardment is even worse. 6 hours of bombardment. Repeat next day. Repeat on another POS.
Alliance politics are bull****.
People act like in 0.0 you get nice 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 fights - all honorable and 'good show chap' at the end. Bull****. Giant camps with bubbles. Thats just spiffing isnt it.
Get over yourself - if we are such wimps come into empire and destroy our ships. Weve done you the favour of spending our hard earned isk to enable you to come fight in empire. So do it.
Now the impartiality of the Devs has been brought into question (pending CCP internal investigation) i have EVEN LESS time for putting hours and hours of my time into polotics/planning/development/long term plans. Call me paranoid but I cant shake the notion that all that time could be wasted where someones got there finger in a DEV pie.
I switch on - join a gang if i feel like it - got shot at - run away - catch a target - spend the loot - switch off. Good fun. Play Eve like a game - not a second life.
SKUNK
PS I propose scrapping all systems and making one GIANT system where war is banned and arguments settled by formation flying with your corp memebers. Also there will be all the best ores - in roids that do not pop and also random BPO drops in cans. No one will be allowed to convo or talk in local in case someone is offended.
My speeeling is my own and dos not represant the Privateer Corporation or Privateer alliance who incidentally are recruting pilots and corporations - Evemail me for details |
Zaltor Kabalen
Amarr O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:34:00 -
[67]
The Privateers are actually really smart. They have no balls, but they're smart... They go for industrials.. You try to fight them with any suitable force, they all dock and go watch **** for an hour, come back to see if you're gone.. If you are.. they go hunt again.
Basically if you're war-decced by them.. Stop crying, use Warp-to-0. They can't stop you from doing that.. If you're in an industrial.. Put on a few stabs just incase they catch you 15km off of a gate warping to another. It's no big deal if you play it smart too.
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Marshalll
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:36:00 -
[68]
stop whining!!!
learn to fight or learn to use your leave corp button.
There's always a way round something but you wont find it by *****ing.
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SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:37:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Raivi
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
Originally by: Raivi Hire some mercs to come to your aid. Or make use of warp to zero. You have joined a game where one of the key design points is you are never safe anywhere. Keep your eyes open and you'll be fine.
How warp to zero can help if the gate is camped from the other side? The only thing that partly helps is cloaking and warpstabs. But it is tiny hope. If the camp is big your indy can be instapopped before you aligned to warp. I cannot afford such risk to my cargo.
It's extremely rare that the Privateers have a camp that can instapop a mildly tanked indy. Scouts are also your friend, either your own or a friend traveling with you. If you see a large camp ahead, just take another route. Generally avoiding the most traveled routes is also a good idea. No sizable privateers camp is going to wait at a low traffic gate for long without getting bored. There are no tactics available to the Privateers which you cannot counter with some effort and forethought. The idea of calling on other alliances and corps hostile to the privateers is also a great one. Many roleplaying corps are pvpers who live in empire. I'm sure PIE would love to be informed of the location of a group of privateers, as would for instance the Star Fraction (if they're still wardecced).
Tanked indy? What are you talking about? Lows are for warpstabs and nanos, where is the tank? Indy does not have much PG for tanking or whatever. Once I took a shot from rupture and got 600 damage within a second! And about scouting. Don't you think that more simple way is a haul by this scout? Why I need scout or friends if I can simply switch to alt and haul? But as I said in the first post it is annoying. It is really really annoying.
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:37:00 -
[70]
Skunk, you know, there is something in between 0.0 and high sec. It's called low sec. It's like 0.0 without bubbles and fleet battles, can you imagine that? That should be heaven for you and your pilots! You could actually fight instead waysting you time with clay-pigeon shooting at miners and haulers...
But wait, you don't want to fight, you could loose a ship...
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
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Zaltor Kabalen
Amarr O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:41:00 -
[71]
And Skunk: We can't destroy your ships because you all dock. Not whining.. but it's simple fact. You guys don't fight if you think there's even a remote chance someone else could win.
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SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:42:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Marshalll stop whining!!! learn to fight or learn to use your leave corp button.
Why should I? I don't want to fight and don't want leave my corp.
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:43:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 12/02/2007 14:42:23
Originally by: Marshalll stop whining!!!
learn to fight or learn to use your leave corp button.
There's always a way round something but you wont find it by *****ing.
Can you imagine that some people love their corp and don't want to leave it?
And sure there are allways ways around it.
But our miners don't want to wait for the security squadron before they can go out to the belt. And they don't want to fit railguns on their ships, but mining lasers. The haulers don't want to make a huge corp event out of this need to transport the minerals for a new battleship to some factory. They just want to bring it there, when they happen to have time to sit at the computer...
People who are willing to do all this, are operating in 0.0 anyways, not in high sec Empire.
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
Marshalll
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:43:00 -
[74]
grow up guys. stop throwing the mud.
Im in privateers and i fight regularly.
If some guys are hunting miners, then more fool them.
Im in this for combat, and thats exactly what im getting every moment of my PA career. Have a little respect for those PA that are doing this for the right reasons please and dont tar me with the miner hunters brush ty.
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Marshalll
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:45:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
Originally by: Marshalll stop whining!!! learn to fight or learn to use your leave corp button.
Why should I? I don't want to fight and don't want leave my corp.
And that is your choice. See you when your showing up red to me ;-)
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Zaltor Kabalen
Amarr O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:47:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Marshalll grow up guys. stop throwing the mud.
Im in privateers and i fight regularly.
If some guys are hunting miners, then more fool them.
Im in this for combat, and thats exactly what im getting every moment of my PA career. Have a little respect for those PA that are doing this for the right reasons please and dont tar me with the miner hunters brush ty.
Fight less, dock more?
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Llewellyn III
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:49:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Zaltor Kabalen
Fight less, dock more?
now thats just ghay
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Zaltor Kabalen
Amarr O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:51:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Llewellyn III
Originally by: Zaltor Kabalen
Fight less, dock more?
now thats just ghay
It's gotta be the privateer's motto. How much real 'fighting' do they do. Popping fatso ships aint fightin'.. It's gang-rape.
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Nackle
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:51:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Nackle on 12/02/2007 14:50:54 all the crying in this thread is pathetic... privateers are not exploiting, end of story.
So empire isn't a safe playground for you anymore? ADAPT
My hat is off to privateers... you've invented a new style of game play that I sure is quite fun for you. Now these mega alliance members can no longer hide in empty 0.0 amassing hoards of goods to sell in high sec quite as easily.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:00:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 12/02/2007 14:58:19 Privateers is not just about ganking haulers, the original concept was something along the lines that the alliances took over 0.0 and claimed it for themselves, and yet made extensive use of empire, which no one group could do anything about. So Infinity Ziona formed a group which would wardec alliances and allow anyone with a grudge or just a need for pewpew to sign up and hit them where it hurts; which just happens to be in their 'industrial backbone' (as alliances like call it).
Now, such an open opportunity at easy targets in as friendly an environment as empire is obviously going to attract lowest-common-denominator players, but don't knock the concept. ----------
IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
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SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:00:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Marshalll
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
Originally by: Marshalll stop whining!!! learn to fight or learn to use your leave corp button.
Why should I? I don't want to fight and don't want leave my corp.
And that is your choice. See you when your showing up red to me ;-)
You won't get this chance.
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Asinia Au
Amarr Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:00:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 12/02/2007 10:39:18
Originally by: Rodj Blake Third choice: Learn how to fight or evade your enemies.
Does not work. The Privateers are aiming for miners and haulers, not fighters. You cannot evade them, since they are everywhere.
The OP is absolutely correct. The Privateers abuse the wardec system to create their own 0.0 playground in Empire, meaning they can roam without big risk, and putting everyone else into risk. For me that is an outright genious exploit of game mechanics, for CCP it is completely legit.
Juwi Kotch
Actually, it does work. Even a mining corp will have some combat chars, right? Just have the combat chars protect your miner/haulers.
What? There are no combat chars at all in your corp? Well, then you should consider hiring mercenaries to provide the guard detail.
If you put your mind to it, you can put them into risk just as they have put you. So, don't hide, don't complain, fight!
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SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:06:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nackle Edited by: Nackle on 12/02/2007 14:50:54 all the crying in this thread is pathetic... privateers are not exploiting, end of story.
So empire isn't a safe playground for you anymore? ADAPT
My hat is off to privateers... you've invented a new style of game play that I sure is quite fun for you. Now these mega alliance members can no longer hide in empty 0.0 amassing hoards of goods to sell in high sec quite as easily.
Yes, my alliance live in 0.0. But I live in empire. They don't care about privateer wars or whatever. But it is not the reason for me to quit my corp.
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SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:10:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Asinia Au
So, don't hide, don't complain, fight!
Don't wanna.
Should I quit playing?
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Sorted
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:10:00 -
[85]
Originally by: SleepingBuddah Yes, this is another privateers whine post.
It seems that wardec mechanism is unbalanced. It looks like someone very rich declares that he bought all police in the city and everybody is free to join him to kill people.
So, actually there is no police. You have to quit your corp or use alts to trade/haul stuff. It is really annoying.
Wardec mechanism should not be used in this way. As for now, if you start playing you have 2 choices: stay in NPC corp or join player corp and have 0.0 in empire.
If you have a small scale corp, and havent upset anyone its unlikely you will have caught a War Dec from us. So you can C-bear it up unharrased.
If your small Empire corp joined an allaince you could be in trouble if they only offer protection in their own space.
If you want to take it easy and be the most secure stay in the NPC corps, mine in hulks and haul in Transporters/Freighters. Eve is non-consenual PVP, and this will discrouage suicide gankers and prevent PA from deccing you.
If your part of a big organisation ask them for tips and help, scouts, fittings, best ships to haul in. Plenty of ways to avoid us while under a Wardec. If you have cargo you need to move and under a war dec and you dont feel safe - dont meta game for gods sake, use the contract and currior system and get another group to haul for you, or get an escort. Plenty of other options available, not just the two you offerd.
and to all the guys whining about us only killing haulers/miners: check the KB ratios - It was less than 10% last time I checked. We have regular skirmishes with allaince gangs and solo combat pilots. I personally always try and run when the odds are against me rather than dock - as I have limited play time and dont want to spend it watching T.V.....
What I am trying to say is "adapt", everyone has to.
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Politocratis
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:14:00 -
[86]
Originally by: SleepingBuddah Yes, this is another privateers whine post.
It seems that wardec mechanism is unbalanced. It looks like someone very rich declares that he bought all police in the city and everybody is free to join him to kill people.
So, actually there is no police. You have to quit your corp or use alts to trade/haul stuff. It is really annoying.
Wardec mechanism should not be used in this way. As for now, if you start playing you have 2 choices: stay in NPC corp or join player corp and have 0.0 in empire.
Sorry to say, the the PA is not much of a threat. I am currently in a Carebare stint in Jita manufacturing some things, and I dont get much troublr from these war targets.
Just the other day I outran 2 PA BSs and a frig with my Industrial. I pretty much do what I want, when I want.
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:15:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 12/02/2007 15:16:37
Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 12/02/2007 14:58:19 Privateers is not just about ganking haulers, the original concept was something along the lines that the alliances took over 0.0 and claimed it for themselves, and yet made extensive use of empire, which no one group could do anything about. So Infinity Ziona formed a group which would wardec alliances and allow anyone with a grudge or just a need for pewpew to sign up and hit them where it hurts; which just happens to be in their 'industrial backbone' (as alliances like call it).
Now, such an open opportunity at easy targets in as friendly an environment as empire is obviously going to attract lowest-common-denominator players, but don't knock the concept.
As I said already, the concept is brilliant. It is a genious way to instrumentalize game mechanics, without violating game rules.
But in its effects, it is very disturbing. It actually leads to the situation, that the high-sec carebears cannot play that game any more in the way the came to like it. Some of them will leave EVE completely, because it is not fun for them anymore. Others will tell their friends, that EVE is all about griefing and getting killed, without any chance to fight it, and make them not to try it out. That lesson was learned the hard way by Ultima Online in 1997/98 and lead to the introduction of Trammel.
When CCP does not anything against it, it endangers the attraction of EVE to the by far biggest customer potential in the world, the carebears. But on the other hand, maybe CCP is content with a subscription base of 100,000 to 150,000 accounts? If their business plans are not aimed for more, then this management of affairs is acceptable.
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
Sorted
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:16:00 -
[88]
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
Originally by: Asinia Au
So, don't hide, don't complain, fight!
Don't wanna.
Should I quit playing?
No, but if you are in a small empire corp which works with a 0.0 alliance you have to accept the risk associated with that. be it PA or another war. In this case its PA.
Like I have said -if you dont want to leave your corp, and your corp wont leave the alliance you need some muscle (PVP pilots) or you need to develop new tactics for moving goods while at war (either move it yourself with differnt ships/fittings, use scouts or contract the hauling out)
plenty of options available to you, thats what makes eve great imo- the scope of choice available to the players.
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Zirth
Caldari The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:19:00 -
[89]
For all those people that advocate warp to zero. Warping to zero works.. when you can warp in the first place.
Stabs work, when you aren't scrammed by a gang.
Warping to 0, and then jumping means you're away from the gate in the system you just jumped in. And at that time (or when you undock, and optionally get bumped away which I've seen happen so many times, or of course, GET LAGGED OUT) you cannot jump, or dock, just get 8 points on you and gangraped.
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SleepingBuddah
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:22:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Politocratis
Sorry to say, the the PA is not much of a threat. I am currently in a Carebare stint in Jita manufacturing some things, and I dont get much troublr from these war targets.
Just the other day I outran 2 PA BSs and a frig with my Industrial. I pretty much do what I want, when I want.
The EVE is not only Jita. Daily I meet heavy camps near Amarr, Hek, Kaaputenen with my alt hauler. Those camps would be impassable for my main.
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