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Admiral Mason
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. |
Lathael
Inner Ring Conglomerate
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:31:58 -
[2] - Quote
This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5142
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:35:45 -
[3] - Quote
I see a very sad person without avatar image. Pray for him...
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
198
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Posted - 2016.02.14 09:43:14 -
[4] - Quote
Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. |
Nex Killer
State Protectorate Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:43:43 -
[5] - Quote
So a IwantIsk banker did it, I was wondering if one of them were going to do it. |
NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
24
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:45:10 -
[6] - Quote
incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API.
the funny thing is he has all 4 faux skills for 14mil sp that will be reallocated in the march patch according to latest dev blog !! |
Admiral Mason
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:46:26 -
[7] - Quote
NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API.
The guy did it all on stream. He's still streaming. Not gonna link it though because this guy seems so sketchy. (RMT) |
Nex Killer
State Protectorate Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:49:40 -
[8] - Quote
NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API.
the funny thing is he has all 4 faux skills for 14mil sp that will be reallocated in the march patch according to latest dev blog !!
If the skill book was still in the game he could have bought it and injected it in. If this is the same IronBank from IWantIsk I bet the API is genuine because he would have the isk to do it. |
Dawny Star
Control-Space DARKNESS.
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:52:43 -
[9] - Quote
You know I didn't have a problem with skill injectors in principle, they allow some younger players to catch up, allow some older players to move some skills around , great, brilliant, like half of EvE I also can no longer mine. I've also gotten a leg up on the character bazarre like many many others, so a little bit of help in this huge time sink I get.
But this, and I want to be clear I watch Iron's streams and I like the guy, this makes me feel a bit sad. I don't feel quite the same about my 9 years in EvE as I did before skill injectors and people going over the top with it.
CCP you should have set a few more boundaries on this. |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
104
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:57:14 -
[10] - Quote
Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling.
I know those feels... |
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Grauth Thorner
Vicious Trading Company
446
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 09:59:15 -
[11] - Quote
Another strange thing are his logon statistics, which say the following:
Quote:Time online 53d 15h 18m Daily average 17d 21h 06m 00s
Create your own in-game shiplabels:
>EVE Custom Ship Labeler application forum thread
>iciclesoft.com
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PsiMin
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
47
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:04:58 -
[12] - Quote
Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh*
around 1.8trillon isk you can have a maxed char, CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W, if you have the isk you can have max chars |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2016.02.14 10:05:39 -
[13] - Quote
He is not maxed as he is missing mobile laboratory operation. There are still things money cannot buy. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
634
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:08:59 -
[14] - Quote
It was always going to happen. People have way too much isk and RL $$ and ego not to.
It is too bad but such is the nature of the beast CCP has created. Its a real double edged sword imo but its okay. That was a lot of SP destroyed in that process.
Imam: Have you heard anything I've said?
Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
Imam: That's right.
Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
|
Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
294
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:10:15 -
[15] - Quote
PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* around 1.8trillon isk you can have a maxed char, CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W, if you have the isk you can have max chars Max chars are completelyu irrelevant here. He have done that because of recognition he would like to have. There is nothing worth praising here.
"Station atmosphere not yet decontaminated for capsuleer consumption."
Just open the door. Let it ventilate for some time.
|
PsiMin
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
47
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:12:03 -
[16] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:You know I didn't have a problem with skill injectors in principle, they allow some younger players to catch up, allow some older players to move some skills around , great, brilliant, like half of EvE I also can no longer mine. I've also gotten a leg up on the character bazarre like many many others, so a little bit of help in this huge time sink I get.
But this, and I want to be clear I watch Iron's streams and I like the guy, this makes me feel a bit sad. I don't feel quite the same about my 9 years in EvE as I did before skill injectors and people going over the top with it.
CCP you should have set a few more boundaries on this.
I could not have said this better, I have played this char since 2003, ive had breaks but in one day Ironbank has surpassed my char in sp by more than double, I don't lilke P2W games and this is now Eve is.
I should have saved all my subscriptions over the last 10 + years of playing then bought Plex, sold the plex then buy injectors as I prob would now be better off SP wise
I worked it out I would get around 800-900 injectors from my subscriptions while playing eve, not sure how many Sp that would get but im sure its more than what I have now |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2447
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:12:44 -
[17] - Quote
PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W
yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right?
its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Lathael
Inner Ring Conglomerate
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling.
Cannot better put it in words. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13613
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:14:13 -
[19] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:You know I didn't have a problem with skill injectors in principle, they allow some younger players to catch up, allow some older players to move some skills around , great, brilliant, like half of EvE I also can no longer mine. I've also gotten a leg up on the character bazarre like many many others, so a little bit of help in this huge time sink I get.
But this, and I want to be clear I watch Iron's streams and I like the guy, this makes me feel a bit sad. I don't feel quite the same about my 9 years in EvE as I did before skill injectors and people going over the top with it.
CCP you should have set a few more boundaries on this.
An sp per month limit would have been the way to go. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
192
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:14:32 -
[20] - Quote
I don't want to say I told you so, but...
A case for more AoE in EvE
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PsiMin
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
48
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:19:07 -
[21] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right? its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things
there will be a lot more chars if not already as in the huge corps / alliances 2 trillion isk is pocket change for them, but even 100-300B it will give a huge boost to chars, it spoils the whole dynamics of the game I feel, there will be no new chars as they can instantly jump 500k SP per injector now
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
472
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:23:05 -
[22] - Quote
So finally you people are starting to get it...sigh.
BTW, he won't be the only one to do this. |
Cristl
331
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:29:41 -
[23] - Quote
Something fishy is going on with that site. What's up with the character's DoB and time onlne etc.? Daily average online time is 21 days - you what mate? |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1626
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:29:46 -
[24] - Quote
This shi.t is broken beyond repair. RIP EvE
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
|
S'Way
1338
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:33:37 -
[25] - Quote
So does he get the no skill in training warning everytime he logs in now ? If yes, that's a good reason not to max skills, would get really annoying after a while. |
Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:35:23 -
[26] - Quote
I once thought is was amazing that it would take 20-30 years to train all this skills in this game.
I think something has been lost....
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
293
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:40:32 -
[27] - Quote
so that's it, you people think he won eve now?
so what will he be doing next? he'll start slaughtering fleets? flipping systems? solo incursions? crash the economy? capture sovs? crush the goons atleast? lead the anti-gankers?
well, i hope he'll do something really, really, really spectacular and impressive or else this is gonna be veeeeeery disappointing...
Just Add Water
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Cristl
331
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:42:24 -
[28] - Quote
And will he undock? If he does, loads of us will want his corpse, and if he doesn't, think of how many unused SP that represents.
A cheaper way to always be primaried is to roll an alt called '4aron Aardvark', surely? |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2450
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:43:40 -
[29] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:so that's it, you people think he won eve now?
so what will he be doing next? he'll start slaughtering fleets? flipping systems? solo incursions? crash the economy? capture sovs? crush the goons atleast? lead the anti-gankers?
well, i hope he'll do something really, really, really spectacular and impressive or else this is gonna be veeeeeery disappointing...
probably get banned for trying to rmt his account because he ruined his own game, infinite isk and full skills, he done an endgame and has nothing left to play for, usually what happens in real p2w games
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Big Lynx
4824
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:57:12 -
[30] - Quote
Admiral Mason wrote:NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API.
The guy did it all on stream. He's still streaming. Not gonna link it though because this guy seems so sketchy. (RMT) He is RMTing with very smart and well-thought method ccp can't retrace. I guess he makes roughly 100k per year, like Somer did once.
RIP Eve btw |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 10:57:50 -
[31] - Quote
It has ruined the goal of those that where aiming for maximum skills doing it the old way.
But for most I doubt it has ruined the game. What's the point in having all the skills where you won't even use them all. Probably about a 1/3 of the skills I probably will never train or have any intention of training. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:01:31 -
[32] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API.
The guy did it all on stream. He's still streaming. Not gonna link it though because this guy seems so sketchy. (RMT) He is RMTing with very smart and well-thought method ccp can't retrace. I guess he makes roughly 100k per year, like Somer did once. RIP Eve btw
Well if he was smart enough to get away with it (not that I'm saying he has done anything outside the EULA) then it's unlikely he would be dumb enough to make himself the centre of attraction. |
Utencil
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:02:48 -
[33] - Quote
NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API.
the funny thing is he has all 4 faux skills for 14mil sp that will be reallocated in the march patch according to latest dev blog !!
He bought the book for 49B |
Andrew Space
Spaceheads
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:06:32 -
[34] - Quote
aw man thats a lot of sp.. |
Big Lynx
4824
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:14:23 -
[35] - Quote
On the other hand I am glad that IronBank demonstrated this level of absurdity. It shows the radical change of CCP's CRM for more profit and the painful sacrifice of a USP and kind of magical feature of EvE Online. It all has a bitter and strange taste.... Eve Online quo vadis? |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
180
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:19:41 -
[36] - Quote
Yeah, this whole thing with injectors has made me sad. I feel the same way I did when I first heard about injectors. I was for the idea of SP being remapped locally within a single character for a fee when that was proposed... then that idea manifested itself in to what we see today.
Of course, I must take the good with the bad if I continue to play. The bright side is that the SP come from somewhere, and at a degraded amount.... and eventually the harvest will be reaped, and the price of SP will inflate, etc, etc.
What I have trouble understanding is why anyone was for this, especially the ones who have invested countless days queuing skills over the course of many years. Why were they so supportive? It obviously wasn't the Isk they would make selling their SP, since most are filthy spacerich anyway. Not even mad really, just haven't excepted reality yet...
Drops Mic
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Cometopappa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:20:37 -
[37] - Quote
I'm gaining extra sp a much cheaper way. Around 15 of my alts who don't need SP any more are just training spaceship command skils with 32 per/26 willpower and then extracting that SP to make injectors to go on my main :D |
Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
295
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:21:08 -
[38] - Quote
Eh people.
You are arguing game changed here. What if I have Skills to fly perfectly with Merlin? Does it make me worse than him in flying merlin? This amount of skillpoints isnt synonymous with anything what one could consider having fun. Its only a boasting that you have more ISK or SP than someone else, purely for recognition purposes.
Ask someone who extracted SP because he did not needed them so much, how he is doing. Not the guy who injected everything there is to ISK sink and SP sink.
I would like to see if he can do that again, just with his alt, and alts alt, so he can "win" even more.
Things just are different, but not bad, just different.
"Station atmosphere not yet decontaminated for capsuleer consumption."
Just open the door. Let it ventilate for some time.
|
Abannan
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
108
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:23:46 -
[39] - Quote
"I haven't got enough isk to do this, thus it is pay to win and I disagree with this mechanic, eve is dying" - Every eve player that can't buy a maxed character |
Dawny Star
Control-Space DARKNESS.
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:25:09 -
[40] - Quote
I'd really like to hear a Dev. viewpoint on this, a lot of Dev's are ex-players and I can't imagine this was what they had in mind for this service?
Some possible restrictions you could add to the service.
1. After 100 Mil SP, you can only extract or move your SP you cannot not inject more.
2. You can only inject a hard cap amount of SP per Month
Also, please let us nuke the injects skill books (if we desire) for skills we've stripped... there's still evidence I used to be able to mine on my character sheet!
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Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:25:28 -
[41] - Quote
No one here that did'nt expect that to happen, right?
In game cost, i.e. ISK spent on the market, given a price of 650.000.000 ISK/Injector That's around 5.95 B-R5RBs
AUR fee to CCP (by those that got the extractors), given a price of 800 AUR per extractor (10 packs each) 93 Packs of 100 $ / Gé¼ for 24.400 AUR
Neuspielererfahrung - ISD
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27079
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:29:09 -
[42] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:I'd really like to hear a Dev. viewpoint on this, a lot of Dev's are ex-players and I can't imagine this was what they had in mind for this service? There are two options.
1. They did have exactly this in mind GÇö get on the whaling boat! 2. They're utter retards.
There might be a third option which is that both of the above are true at once, but that's about it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Big Lynx
4825
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:30:14 -
[43] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dawny Star wrote:I'd really like to hear a Dev. viewpoint on this, a lot of Dev's are ex-players and I can't imagine this was what they had in mind for this service? There are two options. 1. They did have exactly this in mind GÇö get on the whaling boat! 2. They're utter ret ards. There might be a third option which is that both of the above are true at once, but that's about it. option 3: Profit
simple |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27079
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:36:06 -
[44] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:option 3: Profit
simple That's option 1.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:38:54 -
[45] - Quote
Cometopappa wrote:I'm gaining extra sp a much cheaper way. Around 15 of my alts who don't need SP any more are just training spaceship command skils with 32 per/26 willpower and then extracting that SP to make injectors to go on my main :D
Meanwhile my main focuses training on skills my attributes are set to and injects mostly skills they are not.
Yeah, so negating the attribute system as it was originally intended to be used. In the process showing how useless the attribute system now is. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:42:47 -
[46] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:I'd really like to hear a Dev. viewpoint on this, a lot of Dev's are ex-players and I can't imagine this was what they had in mind for this service?
Some possible restrictions you could add to the service.
1. After 100 Mil SP, you can only extract or move your SP you cannot not inject more.
2. You can only inject a hard cap amount of SP per Month
Also, please let us nuke the injects skill books (if we desire) for skills we've stripped... there's still evidence I used to be able to mine on my character sheet!
1. Would have worked although maybe a slightly higher limit.
2. Would have still have created an issue, but it would have just taken longer for it to become apparent. |
Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:45:25 -
[47] - Quote
Then, it suddenly DAWNED on people....too late, as usual.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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S'Way
1339
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:45:50 -
[48] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote: Some possible restrictions you could add to the service.
1. After 100 Mil SP, you can only extract or move your SP you cannot not inject more.
2. You can only inject a hard cap amount of SP per Month
There should have been something like this at the start, however....
It's too late to add restrictions now, the precedent has been set. Limiting how many injectors a player can use (and when) would create a two tier eve game - those who have used them already and those who would have to follow the new restrictions.
All adding limits now would do is cause more unsubs. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2453
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:48:01 -
[49] - Quote
there was restrictions then vets moaned because they were being penalised more for playing longer, they cant win really
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:51:01 -
[50] - Quote
S'Way wrote:[quote=Dawny Star]
All adding limits now would do is cause more unsubs.
Yeah. it's too late now.
Not to mention it would be almost impossible if not impossible to undo.
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1387
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:57:32 -
[51] - Quote
Of course it's a character associated with a sketchy RMT 'betting' website. No-one else in their right mind would have enough ISK to ever pay for this.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1107
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 11:57:57 -
[52] - Quote
I dare CCP to post in this thread and tell us that they're proud of this. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
187
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:06:35 -
[53] - Quote
Still so many people thinking skills are the major factor in being good at EvE.
He basically just spent a fuckton of ISK to create a glorified account that is basically as good as any specialized account for any activity. |
Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
295
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:07:17 -
[54] - Quote
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:Then, it suddenly DAWNED on people....too late, as usual. Dawned what?
Coming of max SP messiah?
Or that you are not worthy kissing the underneath of his sandals?
I say, **** him, and **** his SP.
"Station atmosphere not yet decontaminated for capsuleer consumption."
Just open the door. Let it ventilate for some time.
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
732
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:25:08 -
[55] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:I dare CCP to post in this thread and tell us that they're proud of this.
Have the lessons of the past not been found here? M8?
The top 0.1% of society will always do what they want because they can. Just remember you were the one selling your time/labour/product and they were the one buying. If it's a matter of opportunities you think have been unfair I recall noone being born with a silver spoon.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:33:26 -
[56] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:I dare CCP to post in this thread and tell us that they're proud of this. Have the lessons of the past not been found here? M8? The top 0.1% of society will always do what they want because they can. Just remember you were the one selling your time/labour/product and they were the one buying. If it's a matter of opportunities you think have been unfair I recall noone being born with a silver spoon.
Gone are the days when characters were equal to start with.
RL values (those values aren't shared by everyone) have bleed into gaming. I guess it was inevitable as companies trade in the real world. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
195
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:35:13 -
[57] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:there was restrictions then vets moaned because they were being penalised more for playing longer, they cant win really
There's always going to be some people moaning but it's up to CCP to decide which moans are valid and which are just stupid. I'd say the complaints against skill traders as they are now are valid; they have undeniably cheapened the game just look at this guy getting max skills. People would feel a lot less cheated being slightly penalised than they do knowing some rich guys can just blast right past them, or they could have scrapped this idea as bad.
Some F&I wisdom says that "if you have to introduce a whole bunch of arbitrary limitations to make your idea work then it's probably not a very good idea to start with."
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
15247
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:38:39 -
[58] - Quote
Grauth Thorner wrote:Another strange thing are his logon statistics, which say the following: Quote:Time online 53d 15h 18m Daily average 17d 21h 06m 00s
Cristl wrote:Something fishy is going on with that site. What's up with the character's DoB and time onlne etc.? Daily average online time is 21 days - you what mate? There's a pretty simple explanation for that.
Through the API CCP gives online time in total for the account rather than each pilot. So If you have played for 10 days, then create a new pilot, that new pilot would have an average of 10 days online time upon being created.
This was more accurate back in the days when you usually only used one pilot per account, unlike now when you can multi train etc.
And on that note it's a shame CCP simply didn't allow injections over 100m or similar.
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Yarosara Ruil
Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:42:36 -
[59] - Quote
What a time to be alive and playing EVE!
Gotta love paradigm shifts. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
474
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:51:48 -
[60] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:I'd really like to hear a Dev. viewpoint on this, a lot of Dev's are ex-players and I can't imagine this was what they had in mind for this service?
Some possible restrictions you could add to the service.
1. After 100 Mil SP, you can only extract or move your SP you cannot not inject more.
2. You can only inject a hard cap amount of SP per Month
Also, please let us nuke the injects skill books (if we desire) for skills we've stripped... there's still evidence I used to be able to mine on my character sheet!
It's already to late for that. Just go to Jita, Dodi, Amarr and Ren and take a look at the number of injectors sold already. This move made by CCP had a very narrow margin for error to begin with and CCP slipped right into it. Eve is done! |
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Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
295
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 12:53:43 -
[61] - Quote
Avvy wrote: Gone are the days when characters were equal to start with.
Communist lies.
"Station atmosphere not yet decontaminated for capsuleer consumption."
Just open the door. Let it ventilate for some time.
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
474
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:04:36 -
[62] - Quote
Chribba wrote: And on that note it's a shame CCP simply didn't allow injections over 100m or similar./c
And why would they do that when they can make a crap ton more on elitist that want to be the first to get a insta-maxed char before anyone else to known as the first pilot to max Eve?
The CCP you knew and greatly respected in the past are long gone. Todays CCP are no longer game developers, they are businessmen.
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Vickers Secretary
Weyland Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:05:11 -
[63] - Quote
He did it with RMTing on Twitch, which is banned by CCP. "Subs get 4x Iron Modifier" - thats what his channel says. And exactly this is not allowed. When you do raffles like that, everybody has to get the same chances - and not "people that gave me real money get more chances to get stuff ingame".
Is there any place to report this guy? Support tickets maybe? I mean, this is clearly against the EULA |
Negasonic Teenage Warhead
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:06:40 -
[64] - Quote
This makes me very sad. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:08:16 -
[65] - Quote
Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Avvy wrote: Gone are the days when characters were equal to start with.
Communist lies.
I'm not a communist, although I do think pure communism is the best system, but pure communism doesn't exist where humans are concerned because they are to easy to corrupt. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
620
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:there was restrictions then vets moaned because they were being penalised more for playing longer, they cant win really
They just opted to listen to those who weren't completely opposed to the idea of SP trading. Within that minority, the ones intending to swap around skills on high-SP characters were the majority. At least that's my impression.
CCP just lisened to the community - somewhat selectively, but they did. And that's what we ended up with. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4975
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:11:22 -
[67] - Quote
"Won't someone please think of the children?!" Really, I don't know why this continually bothers players. It's no different than the fact that most of us will never own a Titan, either.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
642
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:11:29 -
[68] - Quote
473,344,000 skill-*******-points o.O
And I only have 51 million... what the hell xD |
Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
182
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:11:32 -
[69] - Quote
Logon statistics for that character is rather odd.. If you check the date of birth.
Time online: 53d 18h 37m Daily average: 17d 22h 12m 20s Logon count: 532
EVEBoard ...Just over 30million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
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Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1228
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:14:34 -
[70] - Quote
Lol what an idiot who cares?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
293
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:14:54 -
[71] - Quote
Celise Katelo wrote:Logon statistics for that character is rather odd.. If you check the date of birth.
Time online: 53d 18h 37m Daily average: 17d 22h 12m 20s Logon count: 532
chribba already asnwered that earlier in this thread.
Just Add Water
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Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
182
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:18:25 -
[72] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Celise Katelo wrote:Logon statistics for that character is rather odd.. If you check the date of birth.
Time online: 53d 18h 37m Daily average: 17d 22h 12m 20s Logon count: 532 chribba already asnwered that earlier in this thread.
Then saw it.. ops
EVEBoard ...Just over 30million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
|
Kelby
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:38:40 -
[73] - Quote
Injections and extractions should have been limited to maybe 10million or so SP per year, this might be seen as a low number but it reflects my low opinion of this change.
Whatever an unbiased limit may have been there should have at least been a limit in the first place, the limit could have even been increased yearly over time to at least try to soften the impact.
Unfortunately the damage is done, I can't see a realistic way of undoing this. Maybe characters that inject SP should get an indicator on their character information so they can easily targeted :) |
Big Lynx
4828
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:42:05 -
[74] - Quote
Vickers Secretary wrote:He did it with RMTing on Twitch, which is banned by CCP. "Subs get 4x Iron Modifier" - thats what his channel says. And exactly this is not allowed. When you do raffles like that, everybody has to get the same chances - and not "people that gave me real money get more chances to get stuff ingame".
Is there any place to report this guy? Support tickets maybe? I mean, this is clearly against the EULA Just write a ticket. CCP will look into this.... lel |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1065
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:51:55 -
[75] - Quote
Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will.
a sad day.. Damn i told you s.... nvm quit eve. |
oreman2
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 13:52:10 -
[76] - Quote
i made a huge mistake reactivating very sad days in eve |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
172
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:17:40 -
[77] - Quote
Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will.
*facepalm* well done, ccp! well done.. *golf claps* |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1309
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:25:25 -
[78] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lol what an idiot who cares?
I would second that, spot on, I know we have had our differences but you called this so right.
Do I give a monkies, nope, if he wants to waste trillions that's the stupidity of him and all those people who went on that stupid betting site, me I am at 110 m SP and I will continue playing my way, that person has no impact on me at all, by the very fact he did it makes him a loser in my book, why not spend that ISK to make a space empire, nope, he had not got it in him...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically a themepark for gankers
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SKINE DMZ
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
500
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:28:54 -
[79] - Quote
Not only was this a sh i tty idea that somehow the community at large fell for from the start (u can already buy characters!!!!!!), but secondly I can't believe there is no limit put in in any shape or form. I saw another post suggesting the face of your avatar turns blue if you inject too much, SOME kind of consequence for doing this was necessary to the very least.
IMO it's already messed up, new players needed some kind of 'scapegoat' which was skills to understand EVE before losing all their ****. The new standard on buying SP will ruin new player experiences as they won't have the patience.
I disagree
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
198
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:31:27 -
[80] - Quote
oreman2 wrote:i made a huge mistake reactivating very sad days in eve
I know what you mean, I went and bought a 6 month sub before Christmas. Now I feel like I might as well play WoWS; it has better ship-to-ship combat and has about as much meaning attached. EvE has changed from being the harsh cold technologically plausible universe that it once was to a hollow shell. Change after change has stripped life from the game with even small things such as the MWD name changes have been a part of this. Once upon a time this game felt like an ultra-harsh version of real life set in space, the ultimate sci-fi simulator. Now it feels like a bunch of bored kids throwing sand at each other, where losses don't matter because isk is easily farmable, where play time no longer matters because you can buy your way there. I'm struggling to justify continuing my subscription once it runs out, this game no longer feels like an MMO but instead more like FarmVille.
CCP have lost heir original vision of eve, the have caved into players always asking for more. They will never have enough and chasing their demands will run the game into the ground. When eve was the best sci-fi sim around it always had that niche, now I worry it's losing it's unique features and becoming another bland commercialised game.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:37:41 -
[81] - Quote
I wonder to what extent this new two-tier character progression system will affect the general perception of EVE Online, both for the players and for the gaming world as a whole.
Not being able to afford to boost your character kind of feels like riding your bicycle uphill in the rain while you watch all the cars drive past you |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Mercenary Coalition
302
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:37:42 -
[82] - Quote
probably should have introduced a logarithmic function, rather than simple thresholds, to the quantity of SP transferred per injector for a given starting SP.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
112
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:40:55 -
[83] - Quote
The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone? |
Big Lynx
4828
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:42:42 -
[84] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:oreman2 wrote:i made a huge mistake reactivating very sad days in eve I know what you mean, I went and bought a 6 month sub before Christmas. Now I feel like I might as well play WoWS; it has better ship-to-ship combat and has about as much meaning attached. EvE has changed from being the harsh cold technologically plausible universe that it once was to a hollow shell. Change after change has stripped life from the game with even small things such as the MWD name changes have been a part of this. Once upon a time this game felt like an ultra-harsh version of real life set in space, the ultimate sci-fi simulator. Now it feels like a bunch of bored kids throwing sand at each other, where losses don't matter because isk is easily farmable, where play time no longer matters because you can buy your way there. I'm struggling to justify continuing my subscription once it runs out, this game no longer feels like an MMO but instead more like FarmVille. CCP have lost heir original vision of eve, the have caved into players always asking for more. They will never have enough and chasing their demands will run the game into the ground. When eve was the best sci-fi sim around it always had that niche, now I worry it's losing it's unique features and becoming another bland commercialised game. Well said sir. Eve feels so average now. |
SKINE DMZ
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
501
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 14:50:38 -
[85] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Not being able to afford to boost your character kind of feels like riding your bicycle uphill in the rain while you watch all the cars drive past you
Yup I think people never realised or even considered that buying SP will become the standard for new players because of this, they already feel behind because of how long this game has been running. They will never develop the patience to wait on a month long skill, instead feel the need to grind or buy ISK.
People like to say having SP doesn't make you win EVE, but that's like saying a level 60 in WoW doesn't make you win, of course it doesn't but being able to buy a level 60 character does devalue the journey and experience to fellow players.
I disagree
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
10804
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:06:23 -
[86] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:I'd really like to hear a Dev. viewpoint on this, a lot of Dev's are ex-players and I can't imagine this was what they had in mind for this service?
Some possible restrictions you could add to the service.
Prepping T3 Tear Injectors
This thread is now the Official Crybaby Thread
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
|
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1257
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:08:23 -
[87] - Quote
CCP allowed their own corporate greed to renege on the fundamental core principles of the game they created.
Sums it up really.
What "exciting new features" will be rolled out next to shamelessly endeavour to milk more cash from the playberbase?
Concord Approved Trader
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
732
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:14:03 -
[88] - Quote
Agata Matahari wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. *facepalm* well done, ccp! well done.. *golf claps*
What you think that the upper echelons of any of the big null groups can't do the same thing with their dozens of supers/titan alts?
I saw a guy post a screencap today of his wallet - 76 trilion isk. How many skill extractors is that?
The only solid fact to be gleaned from this social experiment is that this game has an extremely mature economy with not enough sinks.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2193
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:15:04 -
[89] - Quote
Where are all the players telling newbies, skill points do not matter?
Now we realize, this was and is a lie.
I fell this myself after applying a couple of skill injectors ... I can have everything instantly ... but why?
EvE had the feeling of a real open world, with limits, with unreachable goals, like getting all skills ... now it feels the eternity folded into the beginning, EvE became a closed loop ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Kiandoshia
Gambrini
2416
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:26:21 -
[90] - Quote
Did anyone do the maths on how many SP were nuked in this endeavor?
I don't think it's going to change much for Eve but it makes me feel like Eve has lost a bit of.. idk.. Eve.
Oh well. I bet it helps new players though :trollface.jpg: |
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:27:13 -
[91] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Where are all the players telling newbies, skill points do not matter? Now we realize, this was and is a lie.
Skill points have always mattered, how much they matter depends on the ability of the players involved.
But to have all the skills at maximum is a waste of a lot of sp.
I think the player of the character that is the subject of this thread, just did it to prove a point.
|
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
117
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:27:16 -
[92] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote: EvE had the feeling of a real open world, with limits, with unreachable goals, like getting all skills ...
Refreshing to see a thought that returns to an original game design concept! An important one that differentiated the game from many if not most others.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27083
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:29:47 -
[93] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Where are all the players telling newbies, skill points do not matter? Now we realize, this was and is a lie. They still don't matter. What matters is thatGǪ
Quote:EvE had the feeling of a real open world, with limits, with unreachable goals, like getting all skills ... now it feels the eternity folded into the beginning, EvE became a closed loop ... GǪa core part of the GǣfeelGǥ of EVE has been sacrificed for a quick injection of cash, and for no real benefit to the game itself. Indeed, its main result is to further reinforce the two most common unattractive misunderstandings that made new players reticent to try the game.
Age and history had some kind of meaning; that meaning is gone. What was once the most valued commodity in the game GÇö time GÇö is now trivially tradable on the in-game market and offered in abundance for anyone who wants to pay.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Kiandoshia
Gambrini
2416
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:30:51 -
[94] - Quote
Before I leave this thread: When can we change character names for PLEX or Aurum or whatever? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:31:30 -
[95] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Where are all the players telling newbies, skill points do not matter? Now we realize, this was and is a lie. I fell this myself after applying a couple of skill injectors ... I can have everything instantly ... but why? EvE had the feeling of a real open world, with limits, with unreachable goals, like getting all skills ... now it feels the eternity folded into the beginning, EvE became a closed loop ... You naughty girl. Looks like bad trip to me.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:33:04 -
[96] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Where are all the players telling newbies, skill points do not matter? Now we realize, this was and is a lie. They still don't matter. What matters is thatGǪ Quote:EvE had the feeling of a real open world, with limits, with unreachable goals, like getting all skills ... now it feels the eternity folded into the beginning, EvE became a closed loop ... GǪa core part of the GÇ£feelGÇ¥ of EVE has been sacrificed for a quick injection of cash, and for no real benefit to the game itself. Age and history had some kind of meaning; that meaning is gone. What was once the most valued commodity in the game GÇö time GÇö is now trivially tradable on the in-game market and offered in abundance for anyone who wants to pay. Its the future, you adapt or what?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Big Lynx
4829
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:35:16 -
[97] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Where are all the players telling newbies, skill points do not matter? Now we realize, this was and is a lie. They still don't matter. What matters is thatGǪ Quote:EvE had the feeling of a real open world, with limits, with unreachable goals, like getting all skills ... now it feels the eternity folded into the beginning, EvE became a closed loop ... GǪa core part of the GÇ£feelGÇ¥ of EVE has been sacrificed for a quick injection of cash, and for no real benefit to the game itself. Indeed, its main result is to further reinforce the two most common unattractive misunderstandings that made new players reticent to try the game. Age and history had some kind of meaning; that meaning is gone. What was once the most valued commodity in the game GÇö time GÇö is now trivially tradable on the in-game market and offered in abundance for anyone who wants to pay.
Disgusting. But from economical survival of eve point of view, necessary obviously. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
408
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:39:42 -
[98] - Quote
As a member of CAS - even an Intaki Reborn, funny enough - I would much rather have one of my fleetmates with 10 million SP by my side in battle than this character. I would be more worried about going up against SUAS than this character. *shrug*
|
Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
231
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:42:14 -
[99] - Quote
Quite a few people have said the guy in question is an RMTer.
(1) How can this be open knowledge, and yet still be happening? (2) Why are CCP not doing something about it?*
*even if he is being crafty...surely it's as simple as CCP creating a character, initiating RMT activity, confirming evidence, deploying banhammer? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27085
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:42:23 -
[100] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Its the future, you adapt or what? Adapt to what? That CCP is pursuing short-term strategies that hurts their long-time viability? Yeah, sure. I have other games to play when that process has run its course.
Quote:And since when history and experience does not matter? Since day 1. It's pretty much the life-blood of any persistent and long-lasting game GÇö indeed, it's what makes the persistence last so long. If your business model is to sell long-term progression, then letting people skip that progression means you no longer have a viable business model.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
|
Yarosara Ruil
Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:44:11 -
[101] - Quote
Remember when people where moaning about how removing Clone Grades, and having to spend ISK to keep veteran players from losing their large SP pools when podded, was terrible for EVE because it removed a risk mechanic from the game?
Well, guess that this last year and a half without Skill Point loss has been addressed rather fantastically if you ask me.
My advice? HTFU you guys! |
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
56
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:50:10 -
[102] - Quote
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:CCP allowed their own corporate greed to renege on the fundamental core principles of the game they created.
Sums it up really.
What "exciting new features" will be rolled out next to shamelessly endeavour to milk more cash from the playberbase?
Try this https://secure.eveonline.com/SkillExtractors/
RL cash for in game items.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:52:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Its the future, you adapt or what? Adapt to what? That CCP is pursuing short-term strategies that hurts their long-time viability? Yeah, sure. I have other games to play when that process has run its course. Quote:And since when history and experience does not matter? Since day 1. It's pretty much the life-blood of any persistent and long-lasting game GÇö indeed, it's what makes the persistence last so long. If your business model is to sell long-term progression, then letting people skip that progression means you no longer have a viable business model. Idea of a viable style of play is very different for many people, EVE have this advantage, that it allows to do many shenanigans, so having perfect skills, does not mean you will not have to carve your own history and experience. And this is all about it here, if you have less or more SP it does not really matter so much.
You remember the former EVE intro? "Dare to be bold pilot, forge your own path to the greatness."
SP aquirement is not really this forging. Everyone can have it for free.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1111
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:53:11 -
[104] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Remember when people where moaning about how removing Clone Grades, and having to spend ISK to keep veteran players from losing their large SP pools when podded, was terrible for EVE because it removed a risk mechanic from the game?
Well, guess that this last year and a half without Skill Point loss has been addressed rather fantastically if you ask me.
My advice? HTFU you guys! Why is the game being made easier and more forgiving something to HTFU about? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27086
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 15:56:04 -
[105] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Idea of a viable style of play is very different for many people, EVE have this advantage, that it allows to do many shenanigans, so having perfect skills, does not mean you will not have to carve your own history and experience. It means you're not creating any kind of history and your character does not reflect your experience, because the two have been completely decoupled. And again, it's not about viable play style, but about viable business models GÇö or in this case the way they're actively disrupting their own model.
Quote:You remember the former EVE intro? You mean the one that was pretty much universally derided as being **** and that had very little to do with EVE compared to the ones that came before and after it?
Yes. I remember it. It was ****.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:04:12 -
[106] - Quote
We have different ideas about what is your history and what is experience. Time is not significant like you would want to see it. What matters most is what you have been able to do.
If you have less SP, more glory to you if you can pull something. If perferct skills, experience and history matters the most.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:06:26 -
[107] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
Back up and restore, anyone?
I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.
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SKINE DMZ
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
504
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:10:42 -
[108] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Remember when people where moaning about how removing Clone Grades, and having to spend ISK to keep veteran players from losing their large SP pools when podded, was terrible for EVE because it removed a risk mechanic from the game?
Well, guess that this last year and a half without Skill Point loss has been addressed rather fantastically if you ask me.
My advice? HTFU you guys!
"Hey guys remember there was once a feature implemented which people claimed was terrible but actually it wasn't? That's my argument for why this feature isn't terrible"
PLS CCP implement logic injectors
I disagree
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4724
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:12:37 -
[109] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone?
Dr Caymus, respect can be EARNED in many ways, but it can't be BOUGHT in no way.
For what is worth, you have my respect as the longest trained character in EVE.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:13:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Idea of a viable style of play is very different for many people, EVE have this advantage, that it allows to do many shenanigans, so having perfect skills, does not mean you will not have to carve your own history and experience. It means you're not creating any kind of history and your character does not reflect your experience, because the two have been completely decoupled. And again, it's not about viable play style, but about viable business models GÇö or in this case the way they're actively disrupting their own model. Quote:You remember the former EVE intro? You mean the one that was pretty much universally derided as being **** and that had very little to do with EVE compared to the ones that came before and after it? Yes. I remember it. It was ****.
History doesn't really matter, it's the present and looking to the future that counts. You can start to learn how to play at any point.
These style of games with the long skill training queues and slow progression were popular around 2003 but even then they were starting to become a bit less popular. In fact in some ways it still reminds me of those times. Another reason it was a niche game as this style of game still had its fans.
Seems that they are trying to modernise the game, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, although I still think they should have had a cap so that the injectors would no longer work at a certain point, so as to protect their older customers sp levels. But it's too late for that now.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
810
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:15:38 -
[111] - Quote
Well, I have to say that it's come much faster than I had imagined, but I don't really think this is that much of a surprise to anyone. I think we all knew it would happen at some point. Make of it what you will. Some will complain that the end is nigh all all is lost; "The sky is falling and Eve is dying again," that sort of thing. Not that I think there concerns are completely invalid, some of that does hold a bit of truth...Eve will never be the same as it was for it's first dozen years of life. That said, change like this is pretty much inevitable when your really think about it. In fact, should Eve survive long enough, it will likely change again just as much in another dozen years.
Personally the way I see it there is more to Eve than half a billion SP, whether you get it through time or money. Granted it is a big part of what players can and cannot do, but it still doesn't make a player suddenly invincible or the Eve equivalent of a god or goddess among the rest of us minor, half-mortal deities. End of Eve? No, but Eve has just received one of the biggest changes to it's core fundamental foundations it has ever seen, certainly the biggest change in a long time. I do hope people don't simply end up quitting Eve simply in direct protest of such a change, but it wouldn't surprise me if some did, nor do I blame them either. New players won't know what patience is when they can buy their way past such a milestone instantly, true without question.
If it bothers you so much that others will be able to max skills out sooner than you simply because they have more ISK or RL cash rather than having the luck that they started their time in Eve far sooner than you did, then you'd have every right to pack it up and log off for the last time. Again, can't say I really blame you. It just isn't the way I see it. To me, seeing others buying their SP with RL currency or in game currency is no different than starting your adventure in Eve while running into players that have simply acquired their SP by being there longer than you. Just as PLEX'ing your account with PLEX bought with ISK from another player is no different in my eyes than paying for your account with a credit card -- especially given how expensive ISK-wise PLEX and many other things in Eve have become over the years. The only difference here is that the more patient players will not only have an SP advantage over a newer player, they will have more personal human experience and understanding of how Eve works.
It's a shame players nowadays have a way to effectively "skip" all of that personal experience and know-how; knowing people, many will take advantage of that simply because it's there at all. If nothing else, it will mean the players will see less of an SP gap between new and old players and their characters. Hopefully, that alone will still be enough to matter in the years to come and beyond now that an SP curve is no longer strictly tied to a character's age. It's tough to say right now at least whether this change will loosen up an needlessly strict age-old burden in Eve or be unfortunately denying future players a vital and valuable lesson by luring them into the possibly very false sense of buying their way up getting them the win.
tl;dr It is what it is. I hope you guys stay and continue to play Eve these changes, but if you feel that skill injections have turned Eve into a game you cannot have fun playing anymore, then maybe it is time to call it a day for Eve Online. It won't bother me one bit that new players (or even old players with new characters) have a new means to remove that SP advantage that a more veteran player's characters had if they have the cash for it, so I'm still in. What ever each of you and any other player does, I wish you the best of luck and thanks for playing.
Fly safe and go nuts...
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Leanette Aldard
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:16:04 -
[112] - Quote
i saw tail end of his stream and this is a sad thing to do but there was always going to be someone that did this,
he made a statement on the stream saying this wasn't P2W that it was "Pay for convenience" as he was still the pilot at end of the day, which is kinda true if you blow at pvp all isk and sp in world isnt going to change that,
he did also say he planned on being the youngest pilot in EvE to loose one of every titan, so obviously has more isk then sense !! |
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:17:28 -
[113] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:[quote=Dr Caymus]I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.
Therein lies the problem: CCP has now created a system where the only way to stay competitive on SP is to pay RL cash for SP on top of your monthly subscription fee. This is the very definition of p2win. What's worse is that most p2win games are 'free' from a monthly subscription fee but with all the microtransactions. CCP has done one better by requiring both the month subscription fee AND the microtransactions. Not to mention CCP's idea of "micro" is really more "macro."
This looks great on a spreadsheet from an account's point of view, but for the health and longevity of the game it's bad.
Rothbard's Casino
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9857
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:18:28 -
[114] - Quote
So a few mentally unstable/attention whores max out the SP on a few characters? How exactly does this affect the majority of players?
I'll tell you. Not in the least.
You people kill me, sometimes.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
124
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:21:00 -
[115] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone? I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours. You're missing the point, Pandora. You are correct, I have the resources to take this char to max if I wanted, but this isn't about me, its about the game... its history, its lore, its value, its perception within the gaming industry.
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SKINE DMZ
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
504
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:24:35 -
[116] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So a few mentally unstable/attention whores max out the SP on a few characters? How exactly does this affect the majority of players? I'll tell you. Not in the least. You people kill me, sometimes. Mr Epeen
Thats one extremely narrow minded point of view. Surely it's possible for a feature to affect the game in different ways i.e. the perception towards SP in regards to new players? Or is that completely nullified because one character maxing out his character doesn't affect you personally?
Aren't you guys meant to be the more mature community, seriously where is the logic in some of you people.
I disagree
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27088
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:25:49 -
[117] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:We have different ideas about what is your history and what is experience. Time is not significant like you would want to see it. What matters most is what you have been able to do. GǪin other words, the history and progression of your character. The part that no longer matters since it's optional.
Avvy wrote:History doesn't really matter Not any more, no. That's why something has been lost: because the organic growth of a character is gone, replaced with a short-sighted cash grab.
Quote:Seems that they are trying to modernise the game, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing The problem is that they're not really doing that. There's nothing GÇ£modernGÇ¥ about these kinds of time skips. What they are doing is confirming some of the worst preconceived notions that players have had of EVE over almost its entire time on the market GÇö notions that were never actually true, but are at least somewhat closer to being so today. This is indeed a bad thing; catering to uninformed opinions pretty much always are.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1575
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:27:13 -
[118] - Quote
Wouldn't it be funny if CCP suddenly put clone costs back in?
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
231
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:28:34 -
[119] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if CCP suddenly put clone costs back in?
Yes.
Yes it would. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:29:45 -
[120] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:Pandora Bokks wrote:Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone? I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours. You're missing the point, Pandora. You are correct, I have the resources to take this char to max if I wanted, but this isn't about me, its about the game... its history, its lore, its value, its perception within the gaming industry. Live up to your words and dont pay attention to SP whores who like to wave around their lengthened artificially SPeen.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:31:09 -
[121] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:Pandora Bokks wrote:Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone? I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours. You're missing the point, Pandora. You are correct, I have the resources to take this char to max if I wanted, but this isn't about me, its about the game... its history, its lore, its value, its perception within the gaming industry.
This is something I can agree with. I do not like the introduction of SPI, especially not in the way it was done. In my opinion, the fact that someone else is now leading the max SP group is just one of the least important implications. I would feel different if I was in your shoes of course - not sure whether I would use the same arguments you did. |
SKINE DMZ
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
506
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:31:38 -
[122] - Quote
Tippia when will you update your skill plan? Something a little bit more ISK orientated for efficiency
I disagree
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:34:56 -
[123] - Quote
Quote:the history and progression of your character. The part that no longer matters since it's optional.
IT WAS ALWAYS OPTIONAL. No wonder some people dont pay attention to it. They only see SP.
Everyone had SP like a dog had his bone.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Rien Katelo
Morning Star Expeditionary Force
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:35:30 -
[124] - Quote
This doesn't effect my game play so meh! What do I care. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2523
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:36:01 -
[125] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote: The bright side is that the SP come from somewhere, and at a degraded amount.... and eventually the harvest will be reaped, and the price of SP will inflate, etc, etc. ... Multiple characters -> SP farms.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4724
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:38:50 -
[126] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:We have different ideas about what is your history and what is experience. Time is not significant like you would want to see it. What matters most is what you have been able to do. GǪin other words, the history and progression of your character. The part that no longer matters since it's optional. Avvy wrote:History doesn't really matter Not any more, no. That's why something has been lost: because the organic growth of a character is gone, replaced with a short-sighted cash grab. Quote:Seems that they are trying to modernise the game, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing The problem is that they're not really doing that. There's nothing GÇ£modernGÇ¥ about these kinds of time skips. What they are doing is confirming some of the worst preconceived notions that players have had of EVE over almost its entire time on the market GÇö notions that were never actually true, but are at least somewhat closer to being so today. This is indeed a bad thing; catering to uninformed opinions pretty much always are.
It would be terrible for the future of the game if new players think that they will need to buy SP on top of paying a subscription to play the game. And the fact that SP are sold contradicts all arguments that low SP characters are acceptable.
And for what?
There is one scary sentence in the devblog:
"We werenGÇÖt sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters."
So, what will be next?
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:43:04 -
[127] - Quote
Poddington Bare wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if CCP suddenly put clone costs back in? Yes. Yes it would.
But, unlikely especially after all the fuss to get them removed. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27090
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:46:55 -
[128] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:IT WAS ALWAYS OPTIONAL. No. Before, you always had to actually plan ahead and think about where you wanted to end up. Depending on the time required, it was also a good idea to consider whether everything would have changed by the time you got there.
Now, you can ignore that part and just get whatever you want when you want to match whatever situation you're currently in. Now, it's optional; previously, since you couldn't skip time, it was not.
SKINE DMZ wrote:Tippia when will you update your skill plan? Something a little bit more ISK orientated for efficiency I have no interest in catering to this design error, and since the people who actually benefit from it are older players, they fall outside the intended audience for such a plan.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
133
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:48:13 -
[129] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone? I don't think for a second that CCP did'nt expect that to happen (3 day char leading the SP board). Things like further deminishing returns or delay before further skill injection would've just moved the moment this happened (a bit) further into the future. I suspect CCP to be fully aware of that as well as of the consequences and they don't care for the impact this (and other results of the new age) may have on the game's heart and community.
Players still can follow their own path in eve, can continue to tell and write their own story. Nothing changed there. The community will most likely change, though. Some will leave the game (like I will), some will return and there'll certainly be new player as well. Just like it happened all the time since 2003.
For me, there's no back up and restore here. CCP just showed (once again) what they want.
Neuspielererfahrung - ISD
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:48:25 -
[130] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So, what will be next?
Hopefully the removal of attributes and attribute implants.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5158
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:48:43 -
[131] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:IT WAS ALWAYS OPTIONAL. No. Before, you always had to actually plan ahead and think about where you wanted to end up. Depending on the time required, it was also a good idea to consider whether everything would have changed by the time you got there.
Bullshit. Character bazaar. Thank you.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Velarra
494
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:49:09 -
[132] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So, what will be next?
Pay CCP RL$ for sov on a monthly basis? Or instanced solar systems of a player's design for as long as the rental fee to CCP is maintained?
*j/k |
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
566
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:52:20 -
[133] - Quote
When JonnyPew extracted 100m+ SP CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar tweeted, that his mind was blown by this action Or in other words: "We didn't see that coming!"
Can't wait for his Tweet on what this thread is about. With his mind already blown away by JonnyPew I'm afraid IronBank might have blown Hilmars balls... in one way or the other. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Sustainable Whaling Inc.
96
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:52:50 -
[134] - Quote
Edwin Rothbard wrote: Therein lies the problem: CCP has now created a system where the only way to stay competitive on SP is to pay RL cash for SP on top of your monthly subscription fee. This is the very definition of p2win. What's worse is that most p2win games are 'free' from a monthly subscription fee but with all the microtransactions. CCP has done one better by requiring both the month subscription fee AND the microtransactions. Not to mention CCP's idea of "micro" is really more "macro."
This looks great on a spreadsheet from an account's point of view, but for the health and longevity of the game it's bad.
Since when does SP equal winning? SP enables you to do stuff, it doesn't teach you anything, nor does it really give you an advantage.. There's only so many SP you can pump into something and then it's maxed out. He can now do everything he wants in EVE. Good for him. I bet he still knows apeshit about most of the ships and would die a horrible death in them. This certainly isn't pay to win. It's more like pay to lose, as evidenced by a certain 4-day-old Ark pilot.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
601
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:53:39 -
[135] - Quote
Short of a public flailing or self-immolation, I don't know what more I could've done to raise awareness against sp trading prior to its implementation. From the moment I heard about it, I recognized it was a game-changing paradigm shift and that all the noobs in support were incapable of rationalizing what it would mean for vets & the game. The lack of feedback from CCP made it clear this was happening irrespective of any consequences.
I thought the best thing I could do was to make it an issue in the next CSM election. After visiting CSM watch, I posted a short, thoughtful comment on one of their interviews asking them to mention sp trading - because it was important to many players. They deleted it. I then went to our own CSM forums and realized that Xenuria is a top contender for CSM XI and (from his thread) excels apparently at having no platform outside "reform" - whatever that means (because he won't tell you.) So that's a joke. The current CSM allowed it to happen and many are running again. That's a joke. I'm so uninvested in the game atm, that if I can't find out which candidates support/endorse sp trading in EVE - I'm not even going to participate in the election.
Like many others, it makes me pretty ******* sad to see a 4-day old character make EVE history by becoming the first player with maxxed-out sp. When players wrote that sp trading would cheapen and demean the beauty of EVE - this is but one example of what we meant. SP trading is not EVE. Instant gratification is not EVE. What would be even better? If, with his 75 trillion isk, he did it 9 more times and became the first 10 toons to reach maxxed-out sp in EVE. Woooo!
At this stage in the game, what can one reasonably recommend to CCP RE: skill trading? Removing sp trading is out. The paradigm shift has occurred. Anyone with children will attest that the only thing worse than not giving a child the candy he's throwing a fit over is taking away that candy after you've already given it to him.
So that's out.
Would arbitrary limits or the original plan of diminishing returns have helped? Probably not. It would have cost Ironbank more to max-out but he still could have done it easily. And not allowing anyone past x sp amt to inject skills would only shift anger to a different group. The idea is fail. This is a conceptual failure that shouldn't have ever been proposed. You can't tweak it into success.
If this was a purely business decision, nothing will change unless the loss from unsubs exceeds the gains from sales. And while many vets are now realizing that something's rotten with this idea, a majority of the 65% of players <3 years old must love it. Regardless, it'll take time for those financials to materialize.
My own experience with sp trading has been full of ups & downs. I hated it. Decided to try it. Felt dirty & unsubbed. Recanted and went all in - hacking up my alts. I ended up with max gunnery skills & a bunch of ships I couldn't fly but don't feel like I earned any of it. Now I'm wishing I could un-do all the changes I made. So I'm taking a few days off to see if I can re-spark the magic.
And if not - well, I'm still unsubbed.
Don't worry Dr. Caymus - we won't forget.
YK |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
408
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:57:19 -
[136] - Quote
Edwin Rothbard wrote:Pandora Bokks wrote:[quote=Dr Caymus]I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.
Therein lies the problem: CCP has now created a system where the only way to stay competitive on SP is to pay RL cash for SP on top of your monthly subscription fee. This is the very definition of p2win. What's worse is that most p2win games are 'free' from a monthly subscription fee but with all the microtransactions. CCP has done one better by requiring both the month subscription fee AND the microtransactions. Not to mention CCP's idea of "micro" is really more "macro." This looks great on a spreadsheet from an account's point of view, but for the health and longevity of the game it's bad.
Isn't it the people who purchased Extractors to create Injectors that are the ones who paid RL cash? Seems IronBank simply used ISK he already had, ISK that wasn't gained by spending RL cash...? I've purchased a few Injectors, for example, with extra ISK I had laying around. Didn't spend a RL dime more than my sub cost for them.
|
Serda Ghekon
Politburo
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 16:59:58 -
[137] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So, what will be next?
SP progression was (for me at least) the only reason for EVE to have a subscription fee. Coupled with the infrastructure upgrade http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/tranquility-tech-3/ and the desire to increase the number of players I can only think of one thing: free to play. |
Dawny Star
Control-Space DARKNESS.
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:01:32 -
[138] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Edwin Rothbard wrote:Pandora Bokks wrote:[quote=Dr Caymus]I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.
Therein lies the problem: CCP has now created a system where the only way to stay competitive on SP is to pay RL cash for SP on top of your monthly subscription fee. This is the very definition of p2win. What's worse is that most p2win games are 'free' from a monthly subscription fee but with all the microtransactions. CCP has done one better by requiring both the month subscription fee AND the microtransactions. Not to mention CCP's idea of "micro" is really more "macro." This looks great on a spreadsheet from an account's point of view, but for the health and longevity of the game it's bad. Isn't it the people who purchased Extractors to create Injectors that are the ones who paid RL cash? Seems IronBank simply used ISK he already had, ISK that wasn't gained by spending RL cash...? I've purchased a few Injectors, for example, with extra ISK I had laying around. Didn't spend a RL dime more than my sub cost for them.
Not quite
Extractors are only seeded via someone buying them with AUR, and AUR can only come from one of 3 places
Plex to AUR conversion - Someone bought a PLEX, PLEX can only be generated by RL Cash RL Cash to AUR purchase. Historically gifted AUR from CCP - There's no damn way they gave enough away for this weeks events :p
So people have absolutely been generating CCP income with this. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27090
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:03:07 -
[139] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Bullshit. Character bazaar. You mean the place where you had to plan ahead and think about where you wanted to end up, and depending on the time required, it was a good idea to consider whether everything would have changed by the time you got there (since the product might no longer be a viable build at that point)? And where, if something had very recently changed, chances are that no-one had created the build you wanted all that time ago since they were building for a different meta. The place that just gave you a character, that you now had to plan for and organically grow in the long-term since you still couldn't just match whatever situation you found yourself in?
About as far away from optional as you could come. The reason it worked was exactly because it didn't offer any way around the time expenditure and organic growth that create the history a character, or around its existence at a specific time in the history of the game GÇö factors that have now become completely optional.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
305
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:03:38 -
[140] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:IT WAS ALWAYS OPTIONAL. No. Before, you always had to actually plan ahead and think about where you wanted to end up. Depending on the time required, it was also a good idea to consider whether everything would have changed by the time you got there. Now, you can ignore that part and just get whatever you want when you want to match whatever situation you're currently in. Now, it's optional; previously, since you couldn't skip time, it was not.
Unless you purchased a character from the character bazaar of course. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27091
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:04:54 -
[141] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Unless you purchased a character from the character bazaar of course. No. The exact same rules applied, because what you got was a character, not a bunch of SP.
Quote:Ok, just seen that was covered in post #131 GǪand the reasons why it's ignorant BS was covered in post #139.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Sustainable Whaling Inc.
98
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:06:42 -
[142] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:From the moment I heard about it, I recognized it was a game-changing paradigm shift and that all the noobs in support were incapable of rationalizing what it would mean for vets & the game. I've started playing EVE in 2003 and quit in 2009. Came back 2012, made new accounts (I've had my reasons) and while I'm a bittervet in many regards and certainly do love rambling about various things, SP trading isn't one of them. There should have been a limit to how many SP one can inject, like up to 100M SP and then no more, but even without that limit, I don't really care about it. All that SP gives me is the ability to use certain modules or fly certain ships. I don't get the experience to actually do that properly along with the SP, I can just do it. Not more.
I personally never really gave a crap about SP. I won't use injectors, as I simply wouldn't know what to train (perhaps some shield skills at last, lol). I'm just going to continue as before and train the normal way. Those looking for instant gratification have now something that will stick them to EVE at least for a little while, whereas before they probably would never have subscribed, so on this avenue more income for CCP.
My opinion on SP trading is a neutral one. I'm neither in favor, nor against it. Let whoever needs it use it, I certainly do not.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
813
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:10:58 -
[143] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So, what will be next?
Hopefully the removal of attributes and attribute implants.
My vote.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4724
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:15:08 -
[144] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So, what will be next?
Hopefully the removal of attributes and attribute implants.
That vould be necessary if CCP wanted to sell skilling as a microtransaction service for F2P accounts.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
|
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:15:23 -
[145] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage..
I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now.
Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it.
Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense.
Rothbard's Casino
|
Hairtrigger
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:15:35 -
[146] - Quote
well, thats it for me folks.
got 3 days left of my subs ive been paying for since 2004.
should of seen the writing on the wall years ago when all the original devs started jumpng ship and they started hiring people like fozzie, verone, kill2 etc.
but this latest money grabbin tactic by hilmar is just too much.
been saying this for years, that incompetent tool needs sacking.
he is slowly kiling this game like a cancer |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
134
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:15:57 -
[147] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So, what will be next? Play for free, SP for AUR only Special perks for subscribers (an upcoming feature called SP over time).
Neuspielererfahrung - ISD
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2458
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:18:14 -
[148] - Quote
Hairtrigger wrote:well, thats it for me folks.
got 3 days left of my subs ive been paying for since 2004.
should of seen the writing on the wall years ago when all the original devs started jumpng ship and they started hiring people like fozzie, verone, kill2 etc.
but this latest money grabbin tactic by hilmar is just too much.
been saying this for years, that incompetent tool needs sacking.
he is slowly kiling this game like a cancer
could i please have some of your stuff?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Sustainable Whaling Inc.
98
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:20:04 -
[149] - Quote
Edwin Rothbard wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage.. I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now. Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it. Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense. A 10-year vet with 2M SP will rip apart a 5-day newbro with maxed out bought skills every day. But you're right on the part of Trading / PI / Production skills. I've never really thought about that. But if anything, only trading skills might have an impact (less taxes to pay), as whoever couldn't be bothered with it before certainly can't be bothered with it after.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
307
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:20:26 -
[150] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Avvy wrote:Unless you purchased a character from the character bazaar of course. No. The exact same rules applied, because what you got was a character, not a bunch of SP.
What you got was a character with a bunch of sp already trained by someone else. Plus you get to choose which character and how that sp is distributed.
So although you couldn't put the sp exactly where you wanted too, you could buy a character that closely matches what you wanted, so not really a great deal of difference. |
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
297
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:27:17 -
[151] - Quote
Edwin Rothbard wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage.. I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now. Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it. Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense.
so what if he can use T2 mods and ship if he doesn't know how to use it or if nobody plays with him?
check lowsec especially FW deaths, notice that even veteran players uses T1 ships with mixed T1/T2 mods?
infact, i don't see you, a 2007 character, flying OP or expensive ships yourself to have an advantage over others and you have plenty of SP, why?
if having more SP is such of an advantage, why are you in particular, not showing it?
Just Add Water
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27093
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:31:28 -
[152] - Quote
Avvy wrote:What you got was a character with a bunch of sp already trained by someone else GǪwhich means you had no control over the actual SP or its suitability to your current needs or its availability. All of it had to be planned ahead and grown organically to suit some assumed future state. It, like your own character, was the result of a long-term build history and a specific time in the history of the game.
So pretty much entirely unlike the direct manipulation of SP we have now, where none of that is a factor any more. There is no longer any time that need to be spent, no plan that needs to be made, no historical state and future development that need to be accounted for. Just buy, apply, match.
The entire process has become optional GÇö history and the flow of time has been lost.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
308
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:43:02 -
[153] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Avvy wrote:What you got was a character with a bunch of sp already trained by someone else GǪwhich means you had no control over the actual SP or its suitability to your current needs or its availability. All of it had to be planned ahead and grown organically to suit some assumed future state. It, like your own character, was the result of a long-term build history and a specific time in the history of the game. So pretty much entirely unlike the direct manipulation of SP we have now, where none of that is a factor any more. There is no longer any time that need to be spent, no plan that needs to be made, no historical state and future development that need to be accounted for. Just buy, apply, match. The entire process has become optional GÇö history and the flow of time has been lost.
Say I bought a character from the bazaar, I wouldn't buy one if it had the wrong skills trained.
So I'd buy one with suitable skill for what I had planned.
Alternatively buy skill injectors to a similar total sp value to that of what the bazaar character had and inject those and use them in much the same manner. End result not much different.
With the bazaar character, the previous history is irrelevant to me as it wasn't my history with the character. |
Cixi
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 17:43:36 -
[154] - Quote
There is no problem with what this guy did. He just want recognition and fame, I bet he won't even play with that character.
You can be as good as him (in 1 or few focused way) in a relative short time |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5173
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:12:59 -
[155] - Quote
Quote:You can be as good as him (in 1 or few focused way) in a relative short time No. You all lost. Na na na na na.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
408
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:13:26 -
[156] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:Not quite
Extractors are only seeded via someone buying them with AUR, and AUR can only come from one of 3 places
Plex to AUR conversion - Someone bought a PLEX, PLEX can only be generated by RL Cash RL Cash to AUR purchase. Historically gifted AUR from CCP - There's no damn way they gave enough away for this weeks events :p
So people have absolutely been generating CCP income with this.
That's true. What I mean was that IronBank didn't pay-to-win, since IronBank (likely) didn't pay any RL cash at all.
|
Cixi
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:19:36 -
[157] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:You can be as good as him (in 1 or few focused way) in a relative short time No. You all lost. Na na na na na.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13616
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:34:21 -
[158] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:I once thought is was amazing that it would take 20-30 years to train all this skills in this game.
I think something has been lost....
Of course I do too. But because SP trading is not completely "P2W", some people don't have the foresight to see why this is bad. It's nothing new, there were people defending Dominion's Sov system for like 2 years after it was implemented even though the bad affects of that system were already apparent.
People selling or buying SP and maxing out characters isn't the end of the world, it is an early warning indicator of truly bad things to come. It shows that CCP doesn't understand the value of the things they keep putting on the chopping block. Even after draining 2 characters I'm still sitting on enough SP to keep my 4 accounts in plexes (at current plex prices) for like 3 years. WTF CCP? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2523
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:A 10-year vet with 2M SP will rip apart a 5-day newbro with maxed out bought skills every day. ... Now tell me how a 10 year veteran with a max combat alt does against 5M SP new players.
Yonis Kador wrote:Short of a public flailing or self-immolation, I don't know what more I could've done to raise awareness against sp trading prior to its implementation. ... YK I was grasping around a bit in the dark but the number of times I point things out and get shouted down ...
I think either the old crowd are to tired too fight against stupid stuff like Fozzie SOV, T3Ds, Command Destroyers and now Skill Injectors or we really are all dying out and the tantrum kids are taking over.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5175
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:44:51 -
[160] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:I once thought is was amazing that it would take 20-30 years to train all this skills in this game.
I think something has been lost....
Of course I do to. But because SP trading is not completely "P2W", some people don't have the foresight to see why this is bad. It's nothing new, there were people defending Dominion's Sov system for like 2 years after it was implemented even though the bad affects of that system were already apparent. People selling or buying SP and maxing out characters isn't the end of the world, it is an early warning indicator of truly bad things to come. It shows that CCP doesn't understand the value of the things they keep putting on the chopping block. Even after draining 2 characters I'm still sitting on enough SP to keep my 4 accounts in plexes (at current plex prices) for like 3 years. WTF CCP?
Sneak was saying "take a small bite, noone will know". CCP is the snake. Guess who are the sinners.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
802
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:46:42 -
[161] - Quote
Good for him. Too bad he beat Aryth to it. |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
802
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:49:11 -
[162] - Quote
we have truly lost something with the demise of the ability of 2003 players to always have more SP than new players |
Khanid Voltar
S.A.S
59
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:56:24 -
[163] - Quote
I think this change sucks
Eveboard
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1579
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 18:57:28 -
[164] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Hairtrigger wrote:well, thats it for me folks.
got 3 days left of my subs ive been paying for since 2004.
should of seen the writing on the wall years ago when all the original devs started jumpng ship and they started hiring people like fozzie, verone, kill2 etc.
but this latest money grabbin tactic by hilmar is just too much.
been saying this for years, that incompetent tool needs sacking.
he is slowly kiling this game like a cancer could i please have some of your SP? FTFY
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Mishra San
Spaceships Anonymous
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:03:34 -
[165] - Quote
Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will.
Holy Skill Injectors, Batman!
LMAO.
He just won EVE.
sending virtual hug, virtual hug sent!
|
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
57
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:08:09 -
[166] - Quote
Tippia wrote: I have no interest in catering to this design error, and since the people who actually benefit from it are older players, they fall outside the intended audience for such a plan.
I absolutely agree with this point. You and I can manufacture customised alts to our hearts' content simply using our amassed in-game wealth. Something feels cheap about this, even considering the ability to purchase alts on the character bazaar (which are almost never perfectly trained for what we need).
New players. on the other hand, are inveigled by CCP into buying skill points for real life money through in-game advertisements whenever they open their skill queue. It isn't exactly a subtle advertisement, either.
While it is still some way off, the experience of EVE is starting to feel just a little like an East Asian F2P theme park MMO. I fully expect this game to go F2P within the next 12 months with optional skill training acceleration for subscription/PLEX together with paid for vanity items (already partly implemented) and possibly other special items.
I think it's time we sat down and had a serious discussion about the application of 'pay to get ahead' in EVE online. It's being pushed at us by the developer and the onus is on us to decide what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable business practice in this arena. |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
274
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:09:00 -
[167] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right? its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things
He is not undefeatable. No one is.
EDIT:
My reaction was too harsh to the comment I was replying to. So I apologize and retract it.
There is no reason to get upset, or even care, about Ironbank's stunt. Literally.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
|
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
802
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:10:45 -
[168] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Lan Wang wrote:PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right? its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things He is not undefeatable. No one is. You should try PVP more before making such stupid statements. you are, by far, the best person at recognizing sarcasm in the entire universe |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9863
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:11:52 -
[169] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Lan Wang wrote:PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right? its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things He is not undefeatable. No one is. You should try PVP more before making such stupid statements. Insert lookhowthatwentrightoveryourhead.gif here.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
274
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:12:28 -
[170] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote: you are, by far, the best person at recognizing sarcasm in the entire universe
No, I am not. Hence the apology and retraction.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
|
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
532
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:15:47 -
[171] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Lan Wang wrote:PsiMin wrote:
CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W
yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right? its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things He is not undefeatable. No one is. EDIT: My reaction was too harsh to the comment I was replying to. So I apologize and retract it. There is no reason to get upset, or even care, about Ironbank's stunt. Literally.
You sir need to get your sarcasm detector realigned ... because it's way off.
EDIT: I could have sworn the edit wasn't there when I hit quote. Funny.
Don't anger the forum gods.
ISD Buldath:
> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
311
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:25:08 -
[172] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Lan Wang wrote:PsiMin wrote:
CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W
yawn so ironbank is officiallly the strongest and most elite character in the game, undefeatable because he paid to win and nobody is as high ranked as him because thats what pay2win is right? its not winning its just epeen, nothing more, showing off how he has so much isk to be able to do pointless things He is not undefeatable. No one is. EDIT: My reaction was too harsh to the comment I was replying to. So I apologize and retract it. There is no reason to get upset, or even care, about Ironbank's stunt. Literally. You sir need to get your sarcasm detector realigned ... because it's way off. EDIT: I could have sworn the edit wasn't there when I hit quote. Funny.
The edit happened after post #170, so it probably wasn't. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:27:44 -
[173] - Quote
Quote: Greed has poisoned men's souls
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dGPo9XBIPA
Regards, a Freelancer
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2465
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:41:24 -
[174] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:You should try PVP more before making such stupid statements.
whats pvp and where do i buy it?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
57
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:58:19 -
[175] - Quote
Dawny Star wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Edwin Rothbard wrote:Pandora Bokks wrote:[quote=Dr Caymus]I feel a bit sorry for you, but to be honest - paying a subscription for 13 years in a row is nothing I would call an achievement. If it is that important for you, you an get back to top position in a couple of hours.
Therein lies the problem: CCP has now created a system where the only way to stay competitive on SP is to pay RL cash for SP on top of your monthly subscription fee. This is the very definition of p2win. What's worse is that most p2win games are 'free' from a monthly subscription fee but with all the microtransactions. CCP has done one better by requiring both the month subscription fee AND the microtransactions. Not to mention CCP's idea of "micro" is really more "macro." This looks great on a spreadsheet from an account's point of view, but for the health and longevity of the game it's bad. Isn't it the people who purchased Extractors to create Injectors that are the ones who paid RL cash? Seems IronBank simply used ISK he already had, ISK that wasn't gained by spending RL cash...? I've purchased a few Injectors, for example, with extra ISK I had laying around. Didn't spend a RL dime more than my sub cost for them. Not quite Extractors are only seeded via someone buying them with AUR, and AUR can only come from one of 3 places Plex to AUR conversion - Someone bought a PLEX, PLEX can only be generated by RL Cash RL Cash to AUR purchase. Historically gifted AUR from CCP - There's no damn way they gave enough away for this weeks events :p So people have absolutely been generating CCP income with this.
Agreed but you now don't need to buy AUR you can use real life cash direct with CCP. https://secure.eveonline.com/SkillExtractors/
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1111
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 19:59:32 -
[176] - Quote
so. this guy spent a fortune on skill packs and has a maxed char. what now? Tomorrow noone will remember. |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2690
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:10:30 -
[177] - Quote
The 1.8T it cost to accomplish this effectively meaningless gesture has been distributed much more widely. This is a good thing.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Reiisha
Repracor Industries
808
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:12:30 -
[178] - Quote
Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Eh people. You are arguing game changed here. What if I have Skills to fly perfectly with Merlin? Does it make me worse than him in flying merlin? This amount of skillpoints isnt synonymous with anything what one could consider having fun. Its only a boasting that you have more ISK or SP than someone else, purely for recognition purposes. Ask someone who extracted SP because he did not needed them so much, how he is doing. Not the guy who injected everything there is to ISK sink and SP sink. I would like to see if he can do that again, just with his alt, and alts alt, so he can "win" even more. Things just are different, but not bad, just different.
Skills are a core part of EVE's gameplay, as they are the primary way to teach you planning and patience.
This feature just made clear that the people steering the game may not know the core values anymore.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
|
Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence ChaosTheory.
86
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:22:52 -
[179] - Quote
See scamming does pay. All those players he scams in his " online casino" Draining them of isk and then having his alts win it. he is probably a multi trillionaire by now. Probably didnt even put a dent in his pocket.
Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.
|
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
429
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:23:23 -
[180] - Quote
The Company broke the accord they made with us Capsuleers in 2011 after the Incarna expansion:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/accord-reached-at-ccps-special-summit/
Regards, Freelancer
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
317
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:23:51 -
[181] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Eh people. You are arguing game changed here. What if I have Skills to fly perfectly with Merlin? Does it make me worse than him in flying merlin? This amount of skillpoints isnt synonymous with anything what one could consider having fun. Its only a boasting that you have more ISK or SP than someone else, purely for recognition purposes. Ask someone who extracted SP because he did not needed them so much, how he is doing. Not the guy who injected everything there is to ISK sink and SP sink. I would like to see if he can do that again, just with his alt, and alts alt, so he can "win" even more. Things just are different, but not bad, just different. Skills are a core part of EVE's gameplay, as they are the primary way to teach you planning and patience. This feature just made clear that the people steering the game may not know the core values anymore.
I learnt planning and patience a long time before I started playing EVE.
Where skills from the skill queue are concerned it's not hard although your patience can be tested sometimes as they're time gated with ridiculously long times for a game.
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc.
21294
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:31:18 -
[182] - Quote
And so it begins.
Well done CCP Rise, looks like your dreams have come true.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
432
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:35:15 -
[183] - Quote
Mag's wrote:And so it begins.
Well done CCP Rise, looks like your dreams have come true.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/64754/1/CCP_Rise.jpg
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|
LegSplitter
Lux Aeternes
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:36:09 -
[184] - Quote
I don't care one way or the other on this guys waste of isk I do think and have always thought CCP would have done a lot better at bringing in new players if they would have just increased the starting sp on a new player to between 2 and 5 mil sp and had a good tutorial on how to spend it. This skill injecting thing will be short lived and will not net them the profits they think . |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2524
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:48:47 -
[185] - Quote
I begin to think that Skill Injectors are a cash grab before CCP sells EVE to Perfect World, EA or some other company that can squeeze out the last blood from a stone.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
|
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
135
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 20:55:04 -
[186] - Quote
Mag's wrote:And so it begins.
Well done CCP Rise, looks like your dreams have come true. Perfect NPE with Opportuninjetors, yeah.
Neuspielererfahrung - ISD
|
W33b3l
The Scope Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:32:32 -
[187] - Quote
I said this would happen. No one believed. I'm better at seeing patterns then most though.
I saw this coming when aurum was introduced. Once you open the door.
If memory serves, the money grabs started getting bad again after Soundwave left.
You can argue this isn't as bad as it seems. The joke on you is this is no where the end of it. You allow this crap to happen, it opens the door for more BS that will effect something you care about eventually.
There is more game ruining, money grabbing crap to come SOONtm |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:36:32 -
[188] - Quote
No new SP was added to the system, and billions has been removed from the system.
The stats show an overall evening out of the power curve, care of Cribbas reports.
Yes some people will max out toons, but then what? We have always said that SP doesn't truly matter because he can fly an astero just as good as I can.
All CCP did was give us the option. What is the point of having obscene amounts of wealth, if you cannot use it to take other people's stuff that they are willing to sell to you?
In the end the 1.8 trillion isk would have been better served in a lot of other ways if you really wanted to buy "power" what we see here is simple hubris on display. Nothing more, nothing less.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1919
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:39:44 -
[189] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:I said this would happen. No one believed. I'm better at seeing patterns then most though.
I saw this coming when aurum was introduced. Once you open the door.
If memory serves, the money grabs started getting bad again after Soundwave left.
You can argue this isn't as bad as it seems. The joke on you is this is no where the end of it. You allow this crap to happen, it opens the door for more BS that will effect something you care about eventually.
There is more game ruining, money grabbing crap to come SOONtm No, plenty believed it would happen, but most didn't see it as an issue. The only ones who do are those who consider SP as a valuation of their time in game and hold that as something significant. Well, those and people who view SP as "earned" advantages that certain players or characters should be disallowed by age. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5187
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:57:45 -
[190] - Quote
Play for years alongside characters with lvl 5 skills and nobody cares.
One man emerges who have them all on lvl 5 and everybody loses their minds.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13621
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:58:25 -
[191] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:No, plenty believed it would happen, but most didn't see it as an issue. The only ones who do are those who consider SP as a valuation of their time in game and hold that as something significant. Well, those and people who view SP as "earned" advantages that certain players or characters should be disallowed by age.
This is the kind of thing one tells himself when he really can't (or does not want to) understand the reasoning of other people. It's proof of a disingenuous personality.
It is actually possible to care about an issue that doesn't negatively affect you personally (well, directly anyways). I put no value on skill points, which is why my highest SP character stopped training after about 90 mil skill points. But I do care about the game we play, and this SP trading is a disastrous mistake.
One of the best things about CCP was that (with the exception of monoclegate) they were one of the few non-cash grabbing game companies. They asked for a fair price, and gave fair access to a good product. Unlike very many companies (not just game companies, telecom companies are the worst), CCP didn't play the 'get you in, gouge you, and offer ever better incentives to new customers so they can get gouged too, and screw the loyal existing customers' game. Until now that is.
I like many CCP employees, and few have been as outspoken of his support for CCP than I have. That moral support of CCP is no longer the case, because in doing this they proved (for the second time in 13 years) that they are just another greedy game developer. There is zero compelling in-game reasons to make the move they made. If entrenches the rich. It tells the new player "here is an easy to use short cut, just give us more money up front" It sets those same newcomers up to fail as they don't have the personal experience to USE the SP they bought meaning they will be nothing more than joke killmails after a while.
Up till this month I used to pay cash for 1 sub and plex the other 3 because that made sense for me. Now I have a stack of PLEX, enough for several months so far (and this from only draining 2 alts). I've profited in game and out from this (saving that 15 bucks means 2 more trips to Burger King this month, woot), and I still think it is a horrible example of a company selling out the previously held principles that made it great in the 1st place. At the end of the day it's just a video game, but it's still a shame t see this happen. |
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
872
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:59:12 -
[192] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dawny Star wrote:You know I didn't have a problem with skill injectors in principle, they allow some younger players to catch up, allow some older players to move some skills around , great, brilliant, like half of EvE I also can no longer mine. I've also gotten a leg up on the character bazarre like many many others, so a little bit of help in this huge time sink I get.
But this, and I want to be clear I watch Iron's streams and I like the guy, this makes me feel a bit sad. I don't feel quite the same about my 9 years in EvE as I did before skill injectors and people going over the top with it.
CCP you should have set a few more boundaries on this. An sp per month limit would have been the way to go.
why to bother.
anyway, did anyone calculate how much sp went to bit heaven on that char. |
Pirate Aussie
xX-Crusader-Xx Tactical Narcotics Team
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 21:59:41 -
[193] - Quote
Nex Killer wrote:So a IwantIsk banker did it, I was wondering if one of them were going to do it.
Watch him be banned, too. |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
175
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:09:42 -
[194] - Quote
Pirate Aussie wrote:Nex Killer wrote:So a IwantIsk banker did it, I was wondering if one of them were going to do it. Watch him be banned, too. I hope so. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1919
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:13:38 -
[195] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:No, plenty believed it would happen, but most didn't see it as an issue. The only ones who do are those who consider SP as a valuation of their time in game and hold that as something significant. Well, those and people who view SP as "earned" advantages that certain players or characters should be disallowed by age. This is the kind of thing one tells himself when he really can't (or does not want to) understand the reasoning of other people. It's proof of a disingenuous personality. It is actually possible to care about an issue that doesn't negatively affect you personally (well, directly anyways). I put no value on skill points, which is why my highest SP character stopped training after about 90 mil skill points. But I do care about the game we play, and this SP trading is a disastrous mistake. One of the best things about CCP was that (with the exception of monoclegate) they were one of the few non-cash grabbing game companies. They asked for a fair price, and gave fair access to a good product. Unlike very many companies (not just game companies, telecom companies are the worst), CCP didn't play the 'get you in, gouge you, and offer ever better incentives to new customers so they can get gouged too, and screw the loyal existing customers' game. Until now that is. I like many CCP employees, and few have been as outspoken of his support for CCP than I have. That moral support of CCP is no longer the case, because in doing this they proved (for the second time in 13 years) that they are just another greedy game developer. There is zero compelling in-game reasons to make the move they made. If entrenches the rich. It tells the new player "here is an easy to use short cut, just give us more money up front" It sets those same newcomers up to fail as they don't have the personal experience to USE the SP they bought meaning they will be nothing more than joke killmails after a while. Up till this month I used to pay cash for 1 sub and plex the other 3 because that made sense for me. Now I have a stack of PLEX, enough for several months so far (and this from only draining 2 alts). I've profited in game and out from this (saving that 15 bucks means 2 more trips to Burger King this month, woot), and I still think it is a horrible example of a company selling out the previously held principles that made it great in the 1st place. At the end of the day it's just a video game, but it's still a shame t see this happen. This is the kind of post one resorts to when they themselves simply want to do a character based devaluation of an opposing viewpoint. They'll object to the idea that people can read and judge the objections for themselves without having some inherent flaw.
Further they'll tell you that the only way to "understand" the objections is to agree with them, but not directly.
But to your direct points Jenn:
I'm still not sure how anything but willful blindness results in the conclusion that CCP hasn't offered incentives to any level of customer, whether it be from the new player who heard of the bazaar, the player who didn't want to grind and used plex or now the player who didn't want to wait and used injectors.
We have concrete examples of this working principle in place and have had them for some time. I can certainly see being upset, but that is a very literally self inflicted attitude change rather than an actual, tangible gameplay change. But considering that your own willful buy in of this mechanic is something that you characterized as being too good to pass up and thus compulsory speaks to your ability to conflate that opinion of yours with the concept of a game originating fact.
And really there should be nothing wrong with pointing that out. Own your own decisions and values please. |
Waylan Yutani
Danish Natural Gas Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:18:26 -
[196] - Quote
I trained gall dread lvl 5, siege t2, and capital hybrid turret lvl 5. Then a corpied logged on and told me he just trained minnie dread v, siege t2 and perfect loki skills with injectors.
I feel that Something was lost somehow |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5195
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:31:30 -
[197] - Quote
Waylan Yutani wrote:I trained gall dread lvl 5, siege t2, and capital hybrid turret lvl 5. Then a corpied logged on and told me he just trained minnie dread v, siege t2 and perfect loki skills with injectors. I feel that Something was lost somehow Not only you, we all have lost this man to.... gulp...injectors.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Inuro Enderas
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
15
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:39:01 -
[198] - Quote
Waylan Yutani wrote:I trained gall dread lvl 5, siege t2, and capital hybrid turret lvl 5. Then a corpied logged on and told me he just trained minnie dread v, siege t2 and perfect loki skills with injectors. I feel that Something was lost somehow
Exactly that.
What a bad moment I chose to resub. I think I am going to cancel the subscription once again. Maybe CCP will change something eventually, then I will think about coming back. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5201
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:06:36 -
[199] - Quote
Inuro Enderas wrote:Waylan Yutani wrote:I trained gall dread lvl 5, siege t2, and capital hybrid turret lvl 5. Then a corpied logged on and told me he just trained minnie dread v, siege t2 and perfect loki skills with injectors. I feel that Something was lost somehow Exactly that. What a bad moment I chose to resub. I think I am going to cancel the subscription once again. Maybe CCP will change something eventually, then I will think about coming back. They have changed something eventually. But its your choice.
EVE is not what you are thinking it is. Its just an experiment, social experiment. They are testing adaptation of human mind to quickly changing environment. The winner will get all icelandic exotic dancers and a ton of hakarl.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Inuro Enderas
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
15
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:11:51 -
[200] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:They have changed something eventually. But its your choice. EVE is not what you are thinking it is. Its just an experiment, social experiment. They are testing adaptation of human mind to quickly changing environment. The winner will get all icelandic exotic dancers and a ton of hakarl.
Problem is, I am not interested in icelandic exotic dancers or hakarl.
As for adaptation, I feel that when the changes aren't accepted by the majority, something ought to happen. Strangely enough I only see sad rants on the forum, nobody rebels anymore, nobody shoots anything anymore. |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1787
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:27:19 -
[201] - Quote
I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me. |
Tetsel
Heretic Army I N F A M O U S
229
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:31:50 -
[202] - Quote
Inuro Enderas wrote:As for adaptation, I feel that when the changes aren't accepted by the majority, something ought to happen. Strangely enough I only see sad rants on the forum, nobody rebels anymore, nobody shoots anything anymore.
Maybe the majority of people that cared enough to rebels and shoot things are gone alreadyGǪ Btw a big part of what, I'll wrongly call "EVE Mythology", is gone, so I'll add a sad rants on the forum.
I feel sad now seeing this happening.
Loyal servent to Mother Amamake.
@EVE_Tetsel
Another Bittervet Please Ignore
|
Marceline Ravenstar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:36:15 -
[203] - Quote
This thread in a nutshel:
Abloobloo bloo |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2691
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 00:20:10 -
[204] - Quote
They also want to keep the game running for another decade. The ever-increasing catch up time was hurting new player retention.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2530
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 00:27:27 -
[205] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:No new SP was added to the system, and billions has been removed from the system.... SP farms take a little time to setup.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9870
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:38:18 -
[206] - Quote
As any of us know that have been playing for a while, SP is not that important. And it isn't. It's what you do with it that's important. And you don't need a lot of it to do some fun stuff.
Here's the thing. Most new people coming from other MMOs can't wrap their coddled little carebear brains around the difference between SP and experience. So they have a hard time getting into this game not because of the SP disparity being important, but because they perceive that it's important and they are not easily dissuaded from this idea.
So CCP are wisely using that unshakable belief to attract and keep new players. New players that would quit because they are indoctrinated into the common MMO dogma that more SP makes you a better player and they can never hope to catch up to the vets. New players that will soon learn that this game is different, but not until after investing a lot of time and money into it thus making it worth their while to stick around and acquire some actual experience.
The more I think about it, the more I truly believe that this new mechanic is possibly the best idea for new player attraction and retention that CCP could have come up with.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Escobar Sr
Gang Bang You're Dead Happy Cartel
8
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:43:52 -
[207] - Quote
Dunno why I have mixed feelings about this accomplishment. Okay, he can fly all ships, he can use all the turrets, all the missiles, all the everything... but what's the point of spending a f*ckton of injectors just to get PI and other skills that have nothing to do with your actual daily routine?!? Honestly... Maxed PvP skills with Maxed miner to prove what?!?
Beware of this dude, he will kill you with his perfect salvaging skills... The only thing he proved, in my opinion, it's that is do-able... nothing more, nothing less... Besides that... IDK... |
Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
2588
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:54:46 -
[208] - Quote
Escobar Sr wrote:Dunno why I have mixed feelings about this accomplishment. Okay, he can fly all ships, he can use all the turrets, all the missiles, all the everything... but what's the point of spending a f*ckton of injectors just to get PI and other skills that have nothing to do with your actual daily routine?!? Honestly... Maxed PvP skills with Maxed miner to prove what?!?
"Look at my huge space wiener, you peasants, me so beaucoup huge, omfg he's so huge!!!!!111!" That's why!
The beginning of the End
|
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
95
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:59:27 -
[209] - Quote
For me it takes away from the time you put into Eve.. Used to be you had to play for years to get a lot of sp now well you dont so it takes away all the time you have put into the game.. Just a money grab for ccp really.
Change For the Sake of Change is bad
Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money.
Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Pix Severus
Empty You
3064
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:32:58 -
[210] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:New players that would quit because they are indoctrinated into the common MMO dogma that more SP makes you a better player and they can never hope to catch up to the vets.
This.
There are a huge amount of bad reviews for EVE left on many sites around the net. Go to any review site and you are guaranteed to find someone crying about not being able to catch up to vets. It's like their brains have been warped by other games, and if they can't be a special snowflake in a game played by thousands of people, then they just aren't interested.
My lord.
|
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:35:02 -
[211] - Quote
NovaCat13 wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. I know those feels...
Like over a billion SP were lost?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:46:33 -
[212] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:probably should have introduced a logarithmic function, rather than simple thresholds, to the quantity of SP transferred per injector for a given starting SP. Edit: If that guy now bio-massed the character, just to 'burn' all of those SP from the joint 'pool' I'd actually then be impressed...
He burned way, way more creating that Frankenstein. To go from 80 million SP to 473,344,000 he burned 1,180,032,000 SP. He probably came damn close to burning 3x the SP he has.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:47:55 -
[213] - Quote
Gunner GzR wrote:For me it takes away from the time you put into Eve.. Used to be you had to play for years to get a lot of sp now well you dont so it takes away all the time you have put into the game.. Just a money grab for ccp really.
Well, I suppose you could think of it this way, wiht 1.2-1.4 billion less SP total in the game...the SP in your character just became more valuable.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:56:19 -
[214] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Ashterothi wrote:No new SP was added to the system, and billions has been removed from the system.... SP farms take a little time to setup.
They can't add this back. Training is a linear function of time and number of characters (lets skip remapping and implants). What this character represents is a shift to another growth line that is lower yet parallel to the initial growth and this shift is permanent.
So, SP farms will not alter the fact that somewhere around 1.3-1.4 billion SP were permanently sunk out of the game.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
105
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:57:12 -
[215] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:NovaCat13 wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. I know those feels... Like over a billion SP were lost?
No, just that EVE is different now, not in a bad way, just different and it's a weird feeling. It's almost what Mr Epeen said a few posts further up;
Quote: Most new people coming from other MMOs can't wrap their coddled little carebear brains around the difference between SP and experience.
My coddled little brain is wrapped around the fact that EVE's skill progression was different and was equally harsh to everyone, but now there's a fast track. It's not quite like grinding in other MMOs but it does change the perception on skills.
I do like the sink that was created here though. |
S'Way
1358
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:57:38 -
[216] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote: There are a huge amount of bad reviews for EVE left on many sites around the net. Go to any review site and you are guaranteed to find someone crying about not being able to catch up to vets.
I'm waiting to see the first bad review telling us how they tried this game called EvE and for just a few thousand dollars you can now reach level cap in a day. Monoclegate gave the reviewers a fine time, so I fully expect to see at least one reviewer without a clue going "level cap token in most mmo's is a few dollars but it's a few thousand or grind for years in EvE !"
I hope CCP (or maybe Chribba if eveboard could pull data on it ?) gives us some statistics on how many SP's have been lost from the overall capsuleer pool total with the diminishing returns total on injecting. Would also be interesting to see the SP average distribution of characters now compared to before injectors (how many 20-50m characters have been lobotomised to feed high SP mains etc). |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3767
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:57:42 -
[217] - Quote
Another way CCP could have done a limit:
Everyone has a "cerebral limit" on their SP. The limit starts at something sort of large, say 10 million. For each character, the limit increases at the maximum possible training rate, which I think I heard is 2700 SP per hour. You cannot inject SP over your cerebral limit.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:05:52 -
[218] - Quote
Zappity wrote:The 1.8T it cost to accomplish this effectively meaningless gesture has been distributed much more widely. This is a good thing.
Hmmmm...wonder if we'll see some inflation as a result of skill injectors....
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:12:11 -
[219] - Quote
S'Way wrote:Pix Severus wrote: There are a huge amount of bad reviews for EVE left on many sites around the net. Go to any review site and you are guaranteed to find someone crying about not being able to catch up to vets.
I'm waiting to see the first bad review telling us how they tried this game called EvE and for just a few thousand dollars you can now reach level cap in a day. Monoclegate gave the reviewers a fine time, so I fully expect to see at least one reviewer without a clue going "level cap token in most mmo's is a few dollars but it's a few thousand or grind for years in EvE !" I hope CCP (or maybe Chribba if eveboard could pull data on it ?) gives us some statistics on how many SP's have been lost from the overall capsuleer pool total with the diminishing returns total on injecting. Would also be interesting to see the SP average distribution of characters now compared to before injectors (how many 20-50m characters have been lobotomised to feed high SP mains etc).
1.8 trillion ISK is a bit more than a few thousand....more like....$30,000.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:19:17 -
[220] - Quote
S'Way wrote:Pix Severus wrote: There are a huge amount of bad reviews for EVE left on many sites around the net. Go to any review site and you are guaranteed to find someone crying about not being able to catch up to vets.
I'm waiting to see the first bad review telling us how they tried this game called EvE and for just a few thousand dollars you can now reach level cap in a day. Monoclegate gave the reviewers a fine time, so I fully expect to see at least one reviewer without a clue going "level cap token in most mmo's is a few dollars but it's a few thousand or grind for years in EvE !" I hope CCP (or maybe Chribba if eveboard could pull data on it ?) gives us some statistics on how many SP's have been lost from the overall capsuleer pool total with the diminishing returns total on injecting. Would also be interesting to see the SP average distribution of characters now compared to before injectors (how many 20-50m characters have been lobotomised to feed high SP mains etc).
Chribba's data won't offer a complete picture, and will likely be missing much more at the low end of the spectrum than the high end so it wouldn't give a good picture of an SP distribution.
As for SP lost from the game Chribba's data could give us a lower bound for that number.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
304
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:43:29 -
[221] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:I said this would happen. No one believed. I'm better at seeing patterns then most though.
I saw this coming when aurum was introduced. Once you open the door.
If memory serves, the money grabs started getting bad again after Soundwave left.
You can argue this isn't as bad as it seems. The joke on you is this is no where the end of it. You allow this crap to happen, it opens the door for more BS that will effect something you care about eventually.
There is more game ruining, money grabbing crap to come SOONtm
lol, get over yourself dude, everybody saw this coming, the only difference is everybody that knows better know these issue wouldn't matter.
do you think the silent majority who understand the actual situation wouldn't speak up if a true P2W comes out? if a legit P2W feature comes, an item like golden ammos or invulnerable mods, that can directly affect the outcome of a fight, then yes, i am gonna quit as well. but this, meh.
Just Add Water
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1906
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:47:38 -
[222] - Quote
The huge bonus is you no longer need to sub when your not able to play.
For the past 5 years or more I have kept several characters subbed even during periods I cannot play for real life reasons for several months - just becasue of SP.
Starting in two days time I will be totally unsubbed on all characters for the first time since about 2010.
The reason I can now do this is I can come back in a few months and throw ISK at my various alts and catch up.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
738
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 05:14:32 -
[223] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:The huge bonus is you no longer need to sub when your not able to play.
For the past 5 years or more I have kept several characters subbed even during periods I cannot play for real life reasons for several months - just becasue of SP.
Starting in two days time I will be totally unsubbed on all characters for the first time since about 2010.
The reason I can now do this is I can come back in a few months and throw ISK at my various alts and catch up.
I guess that's a perk but not one I'd be selling.
The game needs more people in space. No stories or legends are being told by people who aren't involved.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
489
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 05:45:24 -
[224] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I begin to think that Skill Injectors are a cash grab before CCP sells EVE to Perfect World, EA or some other company that can squeeze out the last blood from a stone. Yea it makes since. I mean the guys at CCP can't really be this incompetent unless they fully intended on bleeding the last ounce of life out of this game while they still can. Not to mention the Devs silence in those DevBlogs.
Either they are trying to bleed this game out then shut down development of Eve and focus entirely on Valkyrie or it is as you say.
Also the new camera angles remind me of EA typical game effects.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
738
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:05:05 -
[225] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I begin to think that Skill Injectors are a cash grab before CCP sells EVE to Perfect World, EA or some other company that can squeeze out the last blood from a stone. Yea it makes since. I mean the guys at CCP can't really be this incompetent unless they fully intended on bleeding the last ounce of life out of this game while they still can. Not to mention the Devs silence in those DevBlogs. Either they are trying to bleed this game out then shut down development of Eve and focus entirely on Valkyrie or it is as you say. Also the new camera angles remind me of EA typical game effects.
Okay let's real talk here for a minute.
They hired an EA manager because working for EA means you know how to play in the big time. They might be squeezing blood from a stone right now but to be fair they're mostly capitalising on the people who we affectionately know as whales anyway. Jump in, blow $400 on stuff and then get pwnd and leave. Same cycle just doubled down. It's cynical but that's business. You're assuming they'd switch off the servers while you still pay $12/month? Really? They'd actively kill $5mil a month for what reason? To be perfectly fair and honest counting for inflation you're paying less for eve year on year and them not raising the sub fee is costing them money - for our benefit only.
Are they switching over to a semi-F2P model to compensate for that last point? Duh. Yes. And WOW has woken up to this as well after raping their customers wallets for $15 a month for 10 years.
The silence from devs you mention is a tactic deliberately employed by companies who do not want to defend their behaviour. Jim Sterling recently pointed this out in one of his videos but I've observed the tactic for many years previously while I beta tested bf2/2142 and lastly WAR for EA. As recently as that failed enterprise they were using the old cold shoulder trick to suffocate dissatisfaction and while it's reprehensible to see CCP now use it I can understand why - because it's effective.
My sub expires in April, when does yours?
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Professor Humbert
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:05:32 -
[226] - Quote
Although I have yet to find an urgent need for an injector, I like the idea because we now have a legit way to completely destroy some SP's from the game. Already bunch of injectors destroyed
Doesn't an Extractor extract 500,000 SP flat? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4699
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:09:22 -
[227] - Quote
Professor Humbert wrote:Although I have yet to find an urgent need for an injector, I like the idea because we now have a legit way to completely destroy some SP's from the game. Already bunch of injectors destroyedDoesn't an Extractor extract 500,000 SP flat?
Yes, an injector must have 500,000 SP. No more, no less.
So blowing one up means that those SP leave the game, permanently.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4748
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 07:56:50 -
[228] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Another way CCP could have done a limit:
Everyone has a "cerebral limit" on their SP. The limit starts at something sort of large, say 10 million. For each character, the limit increases at the maximum possible training rate, which I think I heard is 2700 SP per hour. You cannot inject SP over your cerebral limit.
Well before the SP issue was discussed, I suggested to "borrow" SP so a player could insta-skill certain SPs but at a price of greatly diminished SP acquisition until his total SP matched what he would had gained "naturally".
Like "take 500,000 SP now, but have 1/10th acquisition rate until they're paid back".
Obviously I think it would have been a lesser evil and a more coherent way to implement fast skilling, but CCP apparently can't make a better game so they started selling it in a different way.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Abannan
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
109
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:17:13 -
[229] - Quote
What does it matter though, except the fact of "oh i'm poor I can't afford to do this" |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44505
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:27:04 -
[230] - Quote
Abannan wrote:What does it matter though, except the fact of "oh i'm poor I can't afford to do this" For me, there are all the individual mechanics that are each something tangible about the game. But then there's a deeper quality that they produce when they all come together. It's more of an intangible quality that creates an attraction (and commitment) to the game.
When the mechanics change, so does that additional quality. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it isn't.
In this case, it feels like something about the overall quality of the game has been lost and now the genie is out of the bottle, there's no mechanics changes that will be able bring that back.
Sort of difficult to explain and nothing to do with the ability to afford it. It's more emotional than financial.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4706
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:32:31 -
[231] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Abannan wrote:What does it matter though, except the fact of "oh i'm poor I can't afford to do this" For me, there are all the individual mechanics that are each something tangible about the game. But then there's a deeper quality that they produce when they all come together. It's more of an intangible quality that creates an attraction (and commitment) to the game. When the mechanics change, so does that additional quality. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it isn't. In this case, it feels like something about the overall quality of the game has been lost and now the genie is out of the bottle, there's no mechanics changes that will be able bring that back. Sort of difficult to explain and nothing to do with the ability to afford it. It's more emotional than financial.
So when this guy is primaried and podded again and again just because....that will mean what?
Keep in mind this player has spent the equivalent of $30,000 to get his 1 character to maxe in everything, but he'll die again and again to a small gang of characters with 1/10th his SP.
Unless he gangs up he is going to be everyone's favorite target.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Adeline Rais
Rais Industries and Research Incorporated
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:41:26 -
[232] - Quote
I find all this very hard to stomach.
Won't somebody think of the children!? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44505
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:44:53 -
[233] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:So when this guy is primaried and podded again and again just because....that will mean what?
Keep in mind this player has spent the equivalent of $30,000 to get his 1 character to maxe in everything, but he'll die again and again to a small gang of characters with 1/10th his SP.
Unless he gangs up he is going to be everyone's favorite target.
I don't know. Does he ever undock?
I don't mind him (or me if it was me) becoming New Eden's Most Wanted. That would be a kind of fun list to be on.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1923
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:26:23 -
[234] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Another way CCP could have done a limit:
Everyone has a "cerebral limit" on their SP. The limit starts at something sort of large, say 10 million. For each character, the limit increases at the maximum possible training rate, which I think I heard is 2700 SP per hour. You cannot inject SP over your cerebral limit. Well before the SP issue was discussed, I suggested to "borrow" SP so a player could insta-skill certain SPs but at a price of greatly diminished SP acquisition until his total SP matched what he would had gained "naturally". Like "take 500,000 SP now, but have 1/10th acquisition rate until they're paid back". Obviously I think it would have been a lesser evil and a more coherent way to implement fast skilling, but CCP apparently can't make a better game so they started selling it in a different way. The problem with mechanics like that is that they're long term, and based on the numbers even short term non-factors. The only time it's useful is when whatever number of SP granted achieves some certain milestone which is somehow important enough to significantly delay the next one, and further expend some level of expense for it as required.
I can certainly see the draw of this mechanic while not feeling personally enticed to use it, your idea though I wonder what's the point. Getting a weeks worth of SP while gaining close to nothing the prior seems worse than just trudging along at a 1x pace, which of course would only work to increase frustration with waiting on skills.
At that point there's room to argue for not changing the system at all since over time the effects are more superficial than anything else. But if you're of the opinion that any good change has to be merely a superficial deviationfrom what was prior (and further doesn't actually do anything save make training feel that much worse for a period of time) I can see how casting aspersions seems justified. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2531
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:06:05 -
[235] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:EVE is not what you are thinking it is. Its just an experiment, social experiment. They are testing adaptation of human mind to quickly changing environment. The winner will get all icelandic exotic dancers and a ton of hakarl. Not any more. CCP has become a large part of Iceland's economy and they have a greater responsibility to the community around them than messing with a bunch of people online.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
318
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:38:00 -
[236] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So when this guy is primaried and podded again and again just because....that will mean what?
Keep in mind this player has spent the equivalent of $30,000 to get his 1 character to maxe in everything, but he'll die again and again to a small gang of characters with 1/10th his SP.
Unless he gangs up he is going to be everyone's favorite target.
I don't know. Does he ever undock? I don't mind him (or me if it was me) becoming New Eden's Most Wanted. That would be a kind of fun list to be on.
I doubt it was done as a playable character. I think it was done just because it could be.
I'd have done same if I had his kind of isk, just to prove a point. I'd been saying for sometime that I think there needed to be a hard cap to protect those high level sp characters. Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2531
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:42:34 -
[237] - Quote
Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5214
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:45:19 -
[238] - Quote
No, they cant have anything they want.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2475
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:48:52 -
[239] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have.
i cant buy a Polaris with 99% resists across the board for rl money though, that would be real p2w
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1069
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:50:45 -
[240] - Quote
So what? Kid's still awful in space.
Not today spaghetti.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
318
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:50:56 -
[241] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have.
Well I don't know what MMO you will be playing then as they're all going the same way.
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1069
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:53:53 -
[242] - Quote
Besides, the only real problem this creates is that it succeeded so now Hilmar and greedy jews of CCP will be that much more brazen with the next cash grab. This didn't kill eve but it officially opened the gate to the road that does.
Not today spaghetti.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2475
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 12:57:57 -
[243] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Besides, the only real problem this creates is that it succeeded so now Hilmar and greedy jews of CCP will be that much more brazen with the next cash grab. This didn't kill eve but it officially opened the gate to the road that does.
No they followed a business model, and in gaming there isnt a game which doesnt have this model you are actually lucky the restrictions are not as harsh as other games which its mandatory to spend money or you cant advance, while all you guys cry about greed, would you work for free? would you work for a company that doesnt make money?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2531
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:01:18 -
[244] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have. i cant buy a Polaris with 99% resists across the board for rl money though, that would be real p2w For the pedant in the room: Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash.Avvy wrote:Well I don't know what MMO you will be playing then as they're all going the same way. Wurm Online for now, (and yes for stupid cash you can buy things there also).
I will keep an eye out for the game that bucks the trend and stands upon their integrity.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2475
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:03:35 -
[245] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have. i cant buy a Polaris with 99% resists across the board for rl money though, that would be real p2w For the pedant in the room: Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash.
thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2531
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:06:52 -
[246] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash. Thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air There was a time, when you paid for access to a game world, where you were anonymous, role playing was the norm and people would start on a level playing field, no matter their real life circumstances.
Now people can pay to cheat their way forward in games that have corrupted communities of tantrum kids.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
318
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:10:39 -
[247] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have. i cant buy a Polaris with 99% resists across the board for rl money though, that would be real p2w For the pedant in the room: Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash. thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air
It's why they went the injector route, they wanted to keep it a player run market.
Look at it this way, CCP gave players the means it was the players that decided to use those means. So effectively it was the players decision.
If players hadn't of put sp injectors onto the market, there would have been none for sale. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2476
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:13:26 -
[248] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash. Thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air There was a time, when you paid for access to a game world, where you were anonymous, role playing was the norm and people would start on a level playing field, no matter their real life circumstances.Now people can pay to cheat their way forward in games that have corrupted communities of tantrum kids.
That time is long gone in the gaming world and id rather ccp try and generate funds than go bust and i lose everything i have achieved with this char.
take your pick
1. Let ccp try and monetize the people willing to spend rl cash who want to play but have no interest in trying to compete with 10 year plus vets.
2. block ccp from making any money and live off sub money and eventually die because its not a successful business.
Sorry but id rather ccp lived so i can play the game that i invested money into
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2531
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:23:32 -
[249] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: There was a time, when you paid for access to a game world, where you were anonymous, role playing was the norm and people would start on a level playing field, no matter their real life circumstances.
Now people can pay to cheat their way forward in games that have corrupted communities of tantrum kids. That time is long gone in the gaming world and id rather ccp try and generate funds than go bust ... 3) Solid game design rather than band aids and sell outs to teenage fantasy. Greater challenges at higher levels for a better sense of achievement. Couple all of that with a more effective marketing strategy.
People strive to go to Oxford and Harvard. EVE has lasted so long because it was niche; because it held out apples far out of reach and people kept climbing to reach them.
As I kept saying in the WiS thread, they could have us walk right through the CQ door and into a Dust social area. We could change games but keep the same characters if we had two accounts.
There are many ways to widen the scope of EVE, to set the bar higher, make it more of a quality experience but they just keep on selling out.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5218
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:30:19 -
[250] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash. Thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air There was a time, when you paid for access to a game world, where you were anonymous, role playing was the norm and people would start on a level playing field, no matter their real life circumstances.Now people can pay to cheat their way forward in games that have corrupted communities of tantrum kids. Games have become business as any other, so people throwing cash on games, and willing to spend more, will be satisfied. And remember, CCP only allows players to redistribute earned SP with other characters, something that was allowed with character bazaar earlier. Now its just more convenient, and some SP are lost.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2537
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:41:03 -
[251] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:... And remember, CCP only allows players to redistribute earned SP with other characters, something that was allowed with character bazaar earlier. Now its just more convenient, and some SP are lost.
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:So although you couldn't put the sp exactly where you wanted to, you could buy a character that closely matches what you wanted, so not really a great deal of difference. Except for characters on the bazaar having a HISTORY and often a public set of skills that wouldn't have changed much and kill board with losses to check. Now, a "newbie" can do a fast turn around and hustle you into an expensive loss. Bring on the risk aversion ten-fold. Your excuse for CCP is wearing thin with repetition.
SP destroyed -> SP farms are being grown as we speak.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
320
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:45:16 -
[252] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:... And remember, CCP only allows players to redistribute earned SP with other characters, something that was allowed with character bazaar earlier. Now its just more convenient, and some SP are lost. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:So although you couldn't put the sp exactly where you wanted to, you could buy a character that closely matches what you wanted, so not really a great deal of difference. Except for characters on the bazaar having a HISTORY and often a public set of skills that wouldn't have changed much and kill board with losses to check. Now, a "newbie" can do a fast turn around and hustle you into an expensive loss. Bring on the risk aversion ten-fold. Your excuse for CCP is wearing thin with repetition. SP destroyed -> SP farms are being grown as we speak.
I'm not sure if you're talking to Nana, me or yourself with those quotes. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5218
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:49:20 -
[253] - Quote
We are coming to a point when I will defend players who throw money to the CCP and you will defend players denying CCP their money. Guess who CCP will listen more.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Gary Bell
Herp Inc.dot Darwinism.
161
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 13:54:46 -
[254] - Quote
I mean honestly yes, it does take a bit out of the games feely squishy parts.. But it literally makes no difference to the way the game is day to day. People like that did it for the hell of it and because they wanted the fame.. Nothing more.
The percentage of eve players that are able to do this are very small and you could prob go your entire eve career without ever meeting one in any aspect. Eve has to large a universe and player base.
Last to remake the point. Eve has basically been play to wins sense plexs came about. Any person with enough drive and RL cash could buy 200 plexs and convert them to isk and buy a Char off the market. Then simply delete the posts from the forum and no one would be any the wiser.
This will make no difference to the game what so ever except alot of the bittervets will be able to unplug mining and there will be alot more link and cyno five alts running around.
Oh, and farming sp will be a new profession insted of farming large batches of chars to sell...
Get over it they got some money in the coffers now so they can stop laying people off and maybe give us some new cool things to play with in game.
Tear level
HIGH |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2538
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:04:30 -
[255] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:I mean honestly yes, it does take a bit out of the games feely squishy parts.. But it literally makes no difference to the way the game is day to day. ... There are penalties to the character bazaar.
Why strive when you can just buy? Why buy for a low achievement game?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
high sec alt
high sec alt Corporation
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:14:58 -
[256] - Quote
shameless post so I can follow |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2593
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:22:46 -
[257] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have.
OH NOES!!!!!!! Someone did on a single character what could already be done with many characters!!! It's the end of the world!!!!
Buying an alt army off the bazaar could already give you all what this guy can do now in a more practical way because you could do many at the same time. His one maxed character can only do one thing at a time. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5223
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:26:10 -
[258] - Quote
Hahaha, what if he will extract all this SP?
THAT would be funny.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2478
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:31:35 -
[259] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Avvy wrote:... Without the hard cap I knew there was going to be some kind of ****storm. There would be anyway. Now that everything is for sale for RL $, CCP has lost all integrity. First it was a hand, a kiss then a bit role play costumes but now anything anyone wants to pay for; they can have. OH NOES!!!!!!! Someone did on a single character what could already be done with many characters!!! It's the end of the world!!!! Buying an alt army off the bazaar could already give you all what this guy can do now in a more practical way because you could do many at the same time. His one maxed character can only do one thing at a time.
this. he still needs alts to be 100% efficient hahaha
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2540
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:33:28 -
[260] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:... OH NOES!!!!!!! Someone did on a single character ... 12 page thread and you think I am talking specifically about one character?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2594
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:39:48 -
[261] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:... OH NOES!!!!!!! Someone did on a single character ... 12 page thread and you think I am talking specifically about one character?
The only thing different from normal day that happened is that it was done on a single character. You could already buy an alt army and have access to every function in the game. You just un-loaded a bunch of PLEX on the market and then went to the bazaar with a checklist to fill.
Some obscure combo of skill would cost you a lot but chance are most stuff could be found anyway. What really is different now? |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6924
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:41:33 -
[262] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
Also, the Polaris frigate is unable to shoot anything and has no fitting slots. Well it's got one mid depending on the variant, but it's not an offensive ship.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2482
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:44:21 -
[263] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Removed an off topic post.
Also, the Polaris frigate is unable to shoot anything and has no fitting slots. Well it's got one mid depending on the variant, but it's not an offensive ship.
but for 1000aurum we could surely have a highslot fitted, then multiples can be added for more aurum, the possibilities are endless if ccp really wanted to go p2w
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2540
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:45:05 -
[264] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:What really is different now? Same page.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2596
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:47:25 -
[265] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:What really is different now? Same page.
So SP farm is your point?
Ever heard of character farms?
That was done before you know... |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2540
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:48:47 -
[266] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:So SP farm is your point? That was done before you know... History Time Public information.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5232
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:51:03 -
[267] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:So SP farm is your point? That was done before you know... History Time Public information. Meh. If it is not in your Bio or on forums, its nowhere.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2540
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:56:32 -
[268] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:... If it is not in your Bio ... its nowhere. Could it be? Are you starting to get it? "Know thy enemy" has flown out the window.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
42
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 14:56:34 -
[269] - Quote
Its sad all those SP got used by a RMT group that will probably go the way of Somer Blink within the next few months. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2596
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:00:27 -
[270] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:... If it is not in your Bio ... its nowhere. Could it be? Are you starting to get it? "Know thy enemy" has flown out the window.
Less free intel because the character could be something entirely different than he was before. That's bad for the game? |
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5232
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:04:02 -
[271] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:... If it is not in your Bio ... its nowhere. Could it be? Are you starting to get it? "Know thy enemy" has flown out the window. You are about to be prepared. Its not about the convenience of knowledge. Its about surprise.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:06:13 -
[272] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:... If it is not in your Bio ... its nowhere. Could it be? Are you starting to get it? "Know thy enemy" has flown out the window. Less free intel because the character could be something entirely different than he was before. That's bad for the game?
That's actually good for the game.
People keep talking about risk, but they try to avoid it by knowing what their target has. Now they will have to take a chance. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
263
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:15:31 -
[273] - Quote
PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* around 1.8trillon isk you can have a maxed char, CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W, if you have the isk you can have max chars
you win Eve when your character is maxed? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13633
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:16:18 -
[274] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:So SP farm is your point? That was done before you know... History Time Public information.
#1 Eff who ever is responsible for SP trading at CCP for they are also responsible for making me aggree with Jenshae Chiroptera.
#2. SP trading is far worse than the character bazaar for more than just history, time, and public information. There is also finality.
I've sold 4 characters in my time in EVE. I was fine with 3 of them but I grew to regret one of them. I had something of an attachment to that character but I sold it because it was worth alot and I already had 4 other characters that could do the same things, and I wanted the isk to speed up some lvl 5 mission experiments I was conducting.
When i sold it, it was gone. NOW no such thing has to happen. You can drain a character of it's SP, and if you come to regret doing that, all you need to do is retrain it. All it cost you was a bit of time. CCP took something that was almost irreversible (I say almost because theoretically you could by the character back, but the owner would have to be willing to sell which might not be the case) and turned it into a renewable resource. Already, the alts I drained are training new SP for me to sell.
In a way, they have replicated their Cosmic Anomaly mistake of 2009. For Dominion CCP took cosmic anomalies (which were minor easy to find encounters that could escalate to complexes) and made them the center of the system upgrade scheme. Instantly they proved to be bad for the economy leading to a series of nerfs then buffs then nerfs that have left them in their current state. It was a mistake, anoms were never built for that, so now we have this 20 trillion isk per month afkable nightmare situation that totally Fs up the EVE economy in several ways.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:16:35 -
[275] - Quote
embrel wrote:PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* around 1.8trillon isk you can have a maxed char, CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W, if you have the isk you can have max chars you win Eve when your character is maxed?
Only if that is the goal you set yourself. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:28:44 -
[276] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
I've sold 4 characters in my time in EVE. I was fine with 3 of them but I grew to regret one of them. I had something of an attachment to that character but I sold it because it was worth alot and I already had 4 other characters that could do the same things, and I wanted the isk to speed up some lvl 5 mission experiments I was conducting.
When i sold it, it was gone. NOW no such thing has to happen. You can drain a character of it's SP, and if you come to regret doing that, all you need to do is retrain it. All it cost you was a bit of time. CCP took something that was almost irreversible (I say almost because theoretically you could by the character back, but the owner would have to be willing to sell which might not be the case) and turned it into a renewable resource. Already, the alts I drained are training new SP for me to sell.
My old characters are in Doomheim, it seems a bad move now as I could of used the isk and extracted the sp for this one. But I don't really regret it as for me at the time I decided it was the right thing to do.
You sold a character and you regretted it, what's that got to do with your present character?
Are your characters like employees and you are playing at being their manager? And regret letting a good employee go?
You're talking about how you feel outside of the game, those kind of concequences don't matter in-game. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13633
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:45:35 -
[277] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
I've sold 4 characters in my time in EVE. I was fine with 3 of them but I grew to regret one of them. I had something of an attachment to that character but I sold it because it was worth alot and I already had 4 other characters that could do the same things, and I wanted the isk to speed up some lvl 5 mission experiments I was conducting.
When i sold it, it was gone. NOW no such thing has to happen. You can drain a character of it's SP, and if you come to regret doing that, all you need to do is retrain it. All it cost you was a bit of time. CCP took something that was almost irreversible (I say almost because theoretically you could by the character back, but the owner would have to be willing to sell which might not be the case) and turned it into a renewable resource. Already, the alts I drained are training new SP for me to sell.
My old characters are in Doomheim, it seems a bad move now as I could of used the isk and extracted the sp for this one. But I don't really regret it as for me at the time I decided it was the right thing to do. You sold a character and you regretted it, what's that got to do with your present character? Are your characters like employees and you are playing at being their manager? And regret letting a good employee go? You're talking about how you feel outside of the game, those kind of concequences don't matter in-game.
This is one of those moments where you realize that any reply (beyond this one sentence) would be wasted effort.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2542
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:52:08 -
[278] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:... If it is not in your Bio ... its nowhere. Could it be? Are you starting to get it? "Know thy enemy" has flown out the window. Less free intel because the character could be something entirely different than he was before. That's bad for the game? Most of the players hide at the end of Null Sec pockets / pipes or in High Sec because they are risk adverse. By the nature of people; yes, it is bad for the game.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
327
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 15:58:42 -
[279] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:... If it is not in your Bio ... its nowhere. Could it be? Are you starting to get it? "Know thy enemy" has flown out the window. Less free intel because the character could be something entirely different than he was before. That's bad for the game? Most of the players hide at the end of Null Sec pockets / pipes or in High Sec because they are risk adverse. By the nature of people; yes, it is bad for the game.
Do I understand you right you target those hiding? They would be hiding for a reason and if it's because they are easy targets then who's actually being risk adverse?
Edit:
But anyway, we are starting to move away from the topic of this thread. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4708
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:01:10 -
[280] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So when this guy is primaried and podded again and again just because....that will mean what?
Keep in mind this player has spent the equivalent of $30,000 to get his 1 character to maxe in everything, but he'll die again and again to a small gang of characters with 1/10th his SP.
Unless he gangs up he is going to be everyone's favorite target.
I don't know. Does he ever undock? I don't mind him (or me if it was me) becoming New Eden's Most Wanted. That would be a kind of fun list to be on.
If he never undocks...who cares?
So he has a maxed trade alt...who doesn't?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2601
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:04:24 -
[281] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is one of those moments where you realize that any reply (beyond this one sentence) would be wasted effort.
Your story about being sad about a traded character was a waste of effort. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2602
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:07:05 -
[282] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So when this guy is primaried and podded again and again just because....that will mean what?
Keep in mind this player has spent the equivalent of $30,000 to get his 1 character to maxe in everything, but he'll die again and again to a small gang of characters with 1/10th his SP.
Unless he gangs up he is going to be everyone's favorite target.
I don't know. Does he ever undock? I don't mind him (or me if it was me) becoming New Eden's Most Wanted. That would be a kind of fun list to be on. If he never undocks...who cares? So he has a maxed trade alt...who doesn't?
Even if he does undock. He can fly any ship. Big deal. If you buy alts from the bazaar, you as a player can also do the exact same thing. The number of SP a single ship can use is limited anyway and require nowhere near the actual cap. Meanwhile, if you did it with multiple character, you can undock 2 ships at the same time while he can't because he's a single capsuler. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4711
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:10:42 -
[283] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash. Thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air There was a time, when you paid for access to a game world, where you were anonymous, role playing was the norm and people would start on a level playing field, no matter their real life circumstances.Now people can pay to cheat their way forward in games that have corrupted communities of tantrum kids. Games have become business as any other, so people throwing cash on games, and willing to spend more, will be satisfied. And remember, CCP only allows players to redistribute earned SP with other characters, something that was allowed with character bazaar earlier. Now its just more convenient, and some SP are lost.
People grow the **** up. Games have always been a business.
Can't believe I had to explain this to adults.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4711
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:17:21 -
[284] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So when this guy is primaried and podded again and again just because....that will mean what?
Keep in mind this player has spent the equivalent of $30,000 to get his 1 character to maxe in everything, but he'll die again and again to a small gang of characters with 1/10th his SP.
Unless he gangs up he is going to be everyone's favorite target.
I don't know. Does he ever undock? I don't mind him (or me if it was me) becoming New Eden's Most Wanted. That would be a kind of fun list to be on. If he never undocks...who cares? So he has a maxed trade alt...who doesn't? Even if he does undock. He can fly any ship. Big deal. If you buy alts from the bazaar, you as a player can also do the exact same thing. The number of SP a single ship can use is limited anyway and require nowhere near the actual cap. Meanwhile, if you did it with multiple character, you can undock 2 ships at the same time while he can't because he's a single capsuler.
True $30,000 would buy alot of characters.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Six Strangelove
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:21:29 -
[285] - Quote
This was obviously very expensive to pull off. But it still feels... cheapening, somehow. |
Lasisha Mishi
Touch of Death
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:22:54 -
[286] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: True $30,000 would buy alot of characters.
i think $30,000 would almost get you your own private server |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4711
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:23:49 -
[287] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: True $30,000 would buy alot of characters.
i think $30,000 would almost get you your own private server
$30,000 is many people's income...for a year.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
44
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:24:36 -
[288] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Everything a player can normally acquire through time or effort can be bought for real life cash. Thats the thing though, time and effort is already made, nothing is conjured out of thin air There was a time, when you paid for access to a game world, where you were anonymous, role playing was the norm and people would start on a level playing field, no matter their real life circumstances.Now people can pay to cheat their way forward in games that have corrupted communities of tantrum kids. Games have become business as any other, so people throwing cash on games, and willing to spend more, will be satisfied. And remember, CCP only allows players to redistribute earned SP with other characters, something that was allowed with character bazaar earlier. Now its just more convenient, and some SP are lost. People grow the **** up. Games have always been a business. Can't believe I had to explain this to adults.
No, games are magical unicorns built of sunshine by poor hippies without a paycheck just for the love of making games.
Any attempt to make any money from them is 'selling out' and completely invalidates all the hard 'work' of everyone who played the game EVER. Games should for some reason be a magical place where the poor don't have to worry about being **** on by those crazy 'rich' people with their 'jobs' using their wallets to replace months of repetitive grinding.
Games are serious business, EVE is real, your actions have consequences you can't escape, reputation, I played since 2004, I liked EVE before ti was cool, space Bushido o7 o7.
|
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
153
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:25:50 -
[289] - Quote
I think the guy behind this deserves a plaid polyester sportcoat. He's maxed out a now 4-day-old character first, because he can, and second, to showcase the embarrassing shortcomings of the skill trading implementation. Cheesy, at best, but a bold move nonetheless. A small part of me somehow admires him.
I will say this... he's racked up over 25,000 views in just a couple of days, which suggests that skillpoints maybe do have some meaning and value. Great for Chribba's Eveboard hit count too! |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2605
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:27:26 -
[290] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lasisha Mishi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: True $30,000 would buy alot of characters.
i think $30,000 would almost get you your own private server $30,000 is many people's income...for a year. To put this in perspective.
15$ and hour on 40 hours week. Lots of people don't make that. And i'm not talking about poor 3rd world countries. |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4711
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:33:46 -
[291] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lasisha Mishi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: True $30,000 would buy alot of characters.
i think $30,000 would almost get you your own private server $30,000 is many people's income...for a year. To put this in perspective. 15$ and hour on 40 hours week. Lots of people don't make that. And i'm not talking about poor 3rd world countries.
And that is before taxes!
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Amber Kurvora
235
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:44:33 -
[292] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lasisha Mishi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: True $30,000 would buy alot of characters.
i think $30,000 would almost get you your own private server $30,000 is many people's income...for a year. To put this in perspective. 15$ and hour on 40 hours week. Lots of people don't make that. And i'm not talking about poor 3rd world countries. And that is before taxes!
So we're saying people have more money then sense? |
Josef Djugashvilis
3281
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:54:36 -
[293] - Quote
I sincerely hope that the max skill set is some sort of hoax.
Not that I blame the player if this is indeed a true; he only did what CCP, in effect, invited players to do.
CCP have opened Pandora's Box, but so long as the cash rolls in, they will not care.
This is not a signature.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
327
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 16:54:51 -
[294] - Quote
Amber Kurvora wrote:
So we're saying people have more money then sense?
When people have much more money than they require, sense need not apply. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3283
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:08:28 -
[295] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me.
If, as the defenders of cash for skills claim it is okay because on cannot 'win' Eve, then what would be the problem with gold ammo?
Winning a fight - any fight or fights using gold ammo, does not 'win' Eve as there is no 'win'
This is not a signature.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4711
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:14:52 -
[296] - Quote
Amber Kurvora wrote:
So we're saying people have more money then sense?
No, not necessarily, just that just because 1 person buys a Ferrari does not mean everyone is.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
perseus skye
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:25:39 -
[297] - Quote
This is incredibly clever by the guy to draw more attention to whatever he is up too .....a whole discussion that's basically a advertisement gj |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4302
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:30:27 -
[298] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me. If, as the defenders of cash for skills claim it is okay because on cannot 'win' Eve, then what would be the problem with gold ammo? Winning a fight - any fight or fights using gold ammo, does not 'win' Eve as there is no 'win' Not sure if you understand what 'Gold Ammo' refers to.
It means things you can only buy with RL cash.
Fortunately, at the moment there's nothing in EVE that you can't acquire in-game, including SKINs and SP injectors.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
44
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:39:07 -
[299] - Quote
It's just a matter of time for hundreds of players to have maxed out SP.
I foresee a lot of people unsubbing in the near future. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3283
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:41:41 -
[300] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me. If, as the defenders of cash for skills claim it is okay because on cannot 'win' Eve, then what would be the problem with gold ammo? Winning a fight - any fight or fights using gold ammo, does not 'win' Eve as there is no 'win' Not sure if you understand what 'Gold Ammo' refers to. It means things you can only buy with RL cash. Fortunately, at the moment there's nothing in EVE that you can't acquire in-game, including SKINs and SP injectors.
My dear chap, in case you are not aware of this, CCP has introduced cash for skills, precisely to generate more cash for the company.
All else is smoke and mirrors.
This is not a signature.
|
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5236
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:48:55 -
[301] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me. If, as the defenders of cash for skills claim it is okay because on cannot 'win' Eve, then what would be the problem with gold ammo? Winning a fight - any fight or fights using gold ammo, does not 'win' Eve as there is no 'win' Not sure if you understand what 'Gold Ammo' refers to. It means things you can only buy with RL cash. Fortunately, at the moment there's nothing in EVE that you can't acquire in-game, including SKINs and SP injectors. My dear chap, in case you are not aware of this, CCP has introduced cash for skills, precisely to generate more cash for the company. All else is smoke and mirrors. Earlier it introduced paying with cash for ISK, and characters full of perfect skills and a lot of SP. Everything we have now is nothing really changing the situation when CCP earns money, allows you to do something and you pay them for that.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2228
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:52:20 -
[302] - Quote
I don't get why people are crying about this. After all you could do the same thing with the character bazaar which was aroun... oh damn wait...
Where is Dave Stark and Tiberius Franklin when you need them..?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2605
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:54:34 -
[303] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me. If, as the defenders of cash for skills claim it is okay because on cannot 'win' Eve, then what would be the problem with gold ammo? Winning a fight - any fight or fights using gold ammo, does not 'win' Eve as there is no 'win' Not sure if you understand what 'Gold Ammo' refers to. It means things you can only buy with RL cash. Fortunately, at the moment there's nothing in EVE that you can't acquire in-game, including SKINs and SP injectors. My dear chap, in case you are not aware of this, CCP has introduced cash for skills, precisely to generate more cash for the company. All else is smoke and mirrors.
We had cash for ISK which translated to cash for character. Character which could be found for pretty much any specialization. Why is specializing in more stuff so damn bad if it's done on a single character but not a big deal if you do it over 3 characters? |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:55:27 -
[304] - Quote
Yuck...
New EvE tastes funny.
Bring back my EvE Classic, please.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5236
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 17:57:47 -
[305] - Quote
Also why people are blaming CCP that they allow people to do something? People if you dont want this feature, dont use it. No one forcing you to extract or inject. Its your choice, and since when EVE players started to care about who have more SP?
Remember you had 50k SP when you started and you played so furiously? Now what? Yoy cry because everyone can have more SP than you?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4302
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:03:05 -
[306] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:I dont really see the problem.
Until golden ammo it makes no difference how people earn their SP to me. If, as the defenders of cash for skills claim it is okay because on cannot 'win' Eve, then what would be the problem with gold ammo? Winning a fight - any fight or fights using gold ammo, does not 'win' Eve as there is no 'win' Not sure if you understand what 'Gold Ammo' refers to. It means things you can only buy with RL cash. Fortunately, at the moment there's nothing in EVE that you can't acquire in-game, including SKINs and SP injectors. My dear chap, in case you are not aware of this, CCP has introduced cash for skills, precisely to generate more cash for the company. All else is smoke and mirrors. You're the only one seeing smoke and mirrors.
SP trading is a new functionality that quite obviously generates cash for CCP.
It's also not 'Gold Ammo' as players also have the option to use it without paying CCP.
You're free to not like it, but then you should also be opposed to, say, a single guy/gal having multiple accounts.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
495
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:21:02 -
[307] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I begin to think that Skill Injectors are a cash grab before CCP sells EVE to Perfect World, EA or some other company that can squeeze out the last blood from a stone. Yea it makes since. I mean the guys at CCP can't really be this incompetent unless they fully intended on bleeding the last ounce of life out of this game while they still can. Not to mention the Devs silence in those DevBlogs. Either they are trying to bleed this game out then shut down development of Eve and focus entirely on Valkyrie or it is as you say. Also the new camera angles remind me of EA typical game effects. Okay let's real talk here for a minute. They hired an EA manager because working for EA means you know how to play in the big time. They might be squeezing blood from a stone right now but to be fair they're mostly capitalising on the people who we affectionately know as whales anyway. Jump in, blow $400 on stuff and then get pwnd and leave. Same cycle just doubled down. It's cynical but that's business. You're assuming they'd switch off the servers while you still pay $12/month? Really? They'd actively kill $5mil a month for what reason? To be perfectly fair and honest counting for inflation you're paying less for eve year on year and them not raising the sub fee is costing them money - for our benefit only. Are they switching over to a semi-F2P model to compensate for that last point? Duh. Yes. And WOW has woken up to this as well after raping their customers wallets for $15 a month for 10 years. The silence from devs you mention is a tactic deliberately employed by companies who do not want to defend their behaviour. Jim Sterling recently pointed this out in one of his videos but I've observed the tactic for many years previously while I beta tested bf2/2142 and lastly WAR for EA. As recently as that failed enterprise they were using the old cold shoulder trick to suffocate dissatisfaction and while it's reprehensible to see CCP now use it I can understand why - because it's effective. My sub expires in April, when does yours? I naively bought 6 month sub packages for all my accounts (a $770.00 waste) one week before CCP posted that 2nd skilltrading Devblog which is why I'm so pissed about this (both at myself and CCP). So unfortunately my accounts don't expire until sometime in July, but it will be the last time I pay CCP a single penny.
Nowadays I spend more time whining in the thread then I do playing this wretched game. I'll continue playing this game until my game resources have been exhausted and then it'll be time for me to cut my ties off from Eve forever.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
131
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:29:15 -
[308] - Quote
I received this in my mail yesterday:
Dear Gadget Helmsdottir,
We regret to inform you that even though you were the inspiration from which this august corporation was created, and while we respect you greatly as an individual, we no longer require your services.
In order for Gadget-Corp to meet its shareholder's expectations, we require our operatives to be well above average in terms of productivity and capability. Due to new technological advances, consideration of our competitors' capabilities, and the expectations of our shareholders, we have increased the minimum skill requirement to be an operative of Gadget-Corp. We are afraid that you no longer meet the bar for these requirements.
Just last week, we have had twelve applicants, that though they may lack a bit of experience, have capabilities well beyond where you currently stand. The lack of experience will be corrected in due time, but we would be remiss in our responsibilities to ignore the potential of the new applicants.
Gadget Helmsdottir, you are hereby informed that your termination date is exactly two months from the issue of this notice. You are expected to train any and all new employees that share your position. Failure to do so will result in loss of the very generous severance package discussed in a further message.
Thank you for being a part of Gadget-Corp's extensive history, and should you take the technological steps to achieve skill parity with the new applicants, please don't hesitate to send us your resume and/or CV. Please understand that past service does not guarantee placement.
Respectfully, Mirror-Universe Gadget
Seriously, though. Watch and see if many corps don't raise their bar for entry to silly levels. Silly levels for those that gain SP the old-fashioned way, but can be easily gained SP trading.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4711
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:39:53 -
[309] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:I received this in my mail yesterday:
Dear Gadget Helmsdottir, We regret to inform you that even though you were the inspiration from which this august corporation was created, and while we respect you greatly as an individual, we no longer require your services. In order for Gadget-Corp to meet its shareholder's expectations, we require our operatives to be well above average in terms of productivity and capability. Due to new technological advances, consideration of our competitors' capabilities, and the expectations of our shareholders, we have increased the minimum skill requirement to be an operative of Gadget-Corp. We are afraid that you no longer meet the bar for these requirements. Just last week, we have had twelve applicants, that though they may lack a bit of experience, have capabilities well beyond where you currently stand. The lack of experience will be corrected in due time, but we would be remiss in our responsibilities to ignore the potential of the new applicants. Gadget Helmsdottir, you are hereby informed that your termination date is exactly two months from the issue of this notice. You are expected to train any and all new employees that share your position. Failure to do so will result in loss of the very generous severance package discussed in a further message. Thank you for being a part of Gadget-Corp's extensive history, and should you take the technological steps to achieve skill parity with the new applicants, please don't hesitate to send us your resume and/or CV. Please understand that past service does not guarantee placement. Respectfully, Mirror-Universe Gadget
Seriously, though. Watch and see if many corps don't raise their bar for entry to silly levels. Silly levels for those that gain SP the old-fashioned way, but can be easily gained SP trading. --Gadget
You do know how negative sum games work, right?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
46
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:47:03 -
[310] - Quote
It's kind of like all the terrible posts from SA and Reddit got together to troll the EVE boards, and this thread is the Magnum Opus of their labour.
Seriously all we need now is someone to demand a 2010-era time-locked EVE server and someone else to threaten to write their own emulator w/o skill injectors and this thread could be complete. |
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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:47:54 -
[311] - Quote
at least you know in reality your 150 mill char is pretty pathetic and that ita actually going to take you like 40 years and 1.8 trillion isk to finish training!
if i knew that i probably wouldnt of even started.
3 day char fully skilled up... thats the problem right there good move ccp. good move. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5240
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:48:19 -
[312] - Quote
Unemployment. In EVE. That is good.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
46
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:51:38 -
[313] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:3 day char fully skilled up... thats the problem right there good move ccp. good move.
A huge problem, I bet he will show up to kill you, specifically you, every day for the rest of the time you play EVE. His skill set will directly impact EVERYONE who plays.
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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:52:15 -
[314] - Quote
im surpriaed ccp jobsworths havent locked this with an excuae to say its ranting like this poor chap got saying the same thing. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=469619&find=unread |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9876
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:52:49 -
[315] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: I naively bought 6 month sub packages for all my accounts (a $770.00 waste) one week before CCP posted that 2nd skilltrading Devblog which is why I'm so pissed about this (both at myself and CCP). So unfortunately my accounts don't expire until sometime in July, but it will be the last time I pay CCP a single penny.
Seriously, Daniela.
Every time you post, you have a different lame story as to why you are still here but are leaving real soon.
For you and all the other people no one cares about. Just leave and get it over with, for Christ's sake. If angst were contagious this forum would be in quarantine.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:53:49 -
[316] - Quote
stg slate wrote:ImYourMom wrote:3 day char fully skilled up... thats the problem right there good move ccp. good move. A huge problem, I bet he will show up to kill you, specifically you, every day for the rest of the time you play EVE. His skill set will directly impact EVERYONE who plays.
wow what a terrible response. but meh this is eve its expected |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
46
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:53:55 -
[317] - Quote
They tend to leave a few ranting threads open on hot button topics; we tend to see locks when people post duplicates tbh. |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
46
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:55:24 -
[318] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: I naively bought 6 month sub packages for all my accounts (a $770.00 waste) one week before CCP posted that 2nd skilltrading Devblog which is why I'm so pissed about this (both at myself and CCP). So unfortunately my accounts don't expire until sometime in July, but it will be the last time I pay CCP a single penny.
Nowadays I spend more time whining in the thread then I do playing this wretched game. I'll continue playing this game until my game resources have been exhausted and then it'll be time for me to cut my ties off from Eve forever.
If you petition they will totally refund you and close the accounts, or refund you the difference of what you've paid/played. Their billing support is really pretty awesome to deal with.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5240
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:55:27 -
[319] - Quote
Euthanasia by SP extracting, you can blame only yourself in that case.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2544
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 18:56:49 -
[320] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I sincerely hope that the max skill set is some sort of hoax.
Not that I blame the player if this is indeed true; he only did what CCP, in effect, invited players to do.
CCP have opened Pandora's Box, but so long as the cash rolls in, they will not care. ... and this is a darn good reason while I won't be giving them any more RL $.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4530
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:10:58 -
[321] - Quote
and when pandora in her curiosity opened the box she found it was full of mad stacks of phat cash and she became hella rich and bought a yacht
and pandora and the yacht lived happily ever after **** the haters
the moral of the story is that money depreciates in value if not invested |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5240
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:13:22 -
[322] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I sincerely hope that the max skill set is some sort of hoax.
Not that I blame the player if this is indeed true; he only did what CCP, in effect, invited players to do.
CCP have opened Pandora's Box, but so long as the cash rolls in, they will not care. ... and this is a darn good reason while I won't be giving them any more RL $.
You go girl. Show them.
But what do you want to show them? That allowing someone to use SP injector is bad? Or that using injectors is bad?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:36:31 -
[323] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ... and this is a darn good reason why I won't be giving them any more RL $.
If you buy gametime with ISK you are equally supporting their business model, so your declaration is meaningless. You might has well have announced you'd never again buy from them with VISA(but MasterCard or PayPal is fine!).
Someone bought that PLEX with cash, and the money comes off the books credited to you.
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Trader20
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:15:21 -
[324] - Quote
Thank the gaming God for this, no more bragging about time spent getting sp numbers. Tis a good day for Eve.
Edit: Toned it down a bit |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:20:22 -
[325] - Quote
Trader20 wrote:Thank the gaming God for this, now sp numbers won't equal epeeness. Tis a good day for Eve.
Incoming vet tears?
They are already here. You can almost swim in their delicious salty goodness; the taste is like honeyed mead and the wailing of their sorrow is like that of the wind howling through a ancient stand of dead alders. |
Trader20
Hedion University Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:28:58 -
[326] - Quote
So now this char is max sp how long do you think it will take him to solo pwn every alliance? |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2483
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:33:50 -
[327] - Quote
Trader20 wrote:So now this char is max sp how long do you think it will take him to solo pwn every alliance?
I heard he paid enough for that char to solo goons in a drake
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
55
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:41:11 -
[328] - Quote
Trader20 wrote:So now this char is max sp how long do you think it will take him to solo pwn every alliance?
Don't worry, if you have max skills you are oppressing a ton of people WITH YOUR VERY EXISTANCE! You and IronBank cause others to cry and quit merely by being in game.
Where are my safe spaces in my internet spaceship game? : /
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2555
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:46:40 -
[329] - Quote
stg slate wrote:If you buy gametime with ISK you are equally supporting their business model, so your declaration is meaningless. The PLEX will be bought anyway. One less of them to be converted into Skill Injectors.
... and it is not my RL cash.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9877
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:17:20 -
[330] - Quote
NovaCat13 wrote:No, just that EVE is different now, not in a bad way, just different and it's a weird feeling. It's almost what Mr Epeen said a few posts further up; Quote: Most new people coming from other MMOs can't wrap their coddled little carebear brains around the difference between SP and experience. My coddled little brain is wrapped around the fact that EVE's skill progression was different and was equally harsh to everyone, but now there's a fast track. It's not quite like grinding in other MMOs but it does change the perception on skills. Equally harsh? Harsh? Seriously?
It's about the least harsh thing in the game. You never even needed to be logged in to acquire it. You still don't. I actually see the 12 to 22 million SP characters I sell for about an hour every six months. Not exactly a harsh grind.
You remember learning skills, right?
They got rid of them because they served no purpose to advancing game play. Neither does artificially restricting the speed you get to train...everyone gets train...for being subbed. It accomplishes nothing and is about a dated as the game in general.
Most of the vets that post here are like FOX viewers with their average age of 72 years old. Stuck in the rut of past memories. The 'good old days'. If they were so good, then we'd not have moved past them.
No. The time for the EVE equivalent of walking twelve miles uphill both ways in a perpetual blizzard to school every morning are long passed. The dinosaurs will soon be extinct and I'll be damned if I let them take my favorite game with them.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1910
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:12:16 -
[331] - Quote
Simple really ...
Old EVE you subbed 24/7 even if you were on a fishing trawler with no internet for 6 months as SP was not grindable.
New EVE you can grind SP just like everything else - so you are actually free to unsub during the periods you cannot play much.
Is this a big change to the EVE ethos at a meta level - yes a huge change with massive implications. Is this a POSITIVE change? Maybe, maybe not, I am reserving my opinion on that as it is currently all conjecture. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9878
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:28:54 -
[332] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Simple really ...
Old EVE you subbed 24/7 even if you were on a fishing trawler with no internet for 6 months as SP was not grindable.
New EVE you can grind SP just like everything else - so you are actually free to unsub during the periods you cannot play much.
Is this a big change to the EVE ethos at a meta level - yes a huge change with massive implications. Is this a POSITIVE change? Maybe, maybe not, I am reserving my opinion on that as it is currently all conjecture. That option is certainly valid...for a few. But if everyone starts doing it, there will be no injectors to buy after a while since no one will be subbed to be farming it for sale.
Some interesting times ahead, for sure.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Studley Ramrod
Adult film stars of eve
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:44:21 -
[333] - Quote
Skill injection fatigue, just a suggestion.... |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2483
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:47:33 -
[334] - Quote
Studley Ramrod wrote:Skill injection fatigue, just a suggestion....
whats the point, who else can afford to just bang out 1.8tril making a character max skilled with a load of pointless skills they wont use, not many.
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
162
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:53:36 -
[335] - Quote
So, I'm reading the thread next door about looking for a little PvP fun and it occurs to me: I've had some fun over the last couple of days with a little PvD right here in the forums! I do feel like it's been a one sided battle though. Looking forward to the Devs weighing in on skill trading concerns.
|
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
438
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:56:59 -
[336] - Quote
Quote:Most of the vets that post here are like FOX viewers with their average age of 72 years old. Stuck in the rut of past memories. The 'good old days'. If they were so good, then we'd not have moved past them.
No. The time for the EVE equivalent of walking twelve miles uphill both ways in a perpetual blizzard to school every morning are long passed. The dinosaurs will soon be extinct and I'll be damned if I let them take my favorite game with them. Mr Epeen Cool
The day Mr. Epeen Cool strutted into a bar.
https://youtu.be/gkccqolaVGg
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
|
Blindmellonchitlan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 22:58:11 -
[337] - Quote
This is so good I keep refreshing the page to see what else pops up XD. |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
78
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 23:47:42 -
[338] - Quote
A lot of the characters you bought on the character bazaar were scammers of some flavor. If you bought a new face there, there was a very good chance you would have a whole bunch of someones wanting to melt it off for crimes. Repeatedly.
A signature :o
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1923
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 23:54:15 -
[339] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Simple really ...
Old EVE you subbed 24/7 even if you were on a fishing trawler with no internet for 6 months as SP was not grindable.
New EVE you can grind SP just like everything else - so you are actually free to unsub during the periods you cannot play much.
Is this a big change to the EVE ethos at a meta level - yes a huge change with massive implications. Is this a POSITIVE change? Maybe, maybe not, I am reserving my opinion on that as it is currently all conjecture. Interesting point here. I wonder if the concept of cash for SP will now be acknowledged as such with additional subs/MCTCs. Prior to this staying subbed for skill queue online was neither objectionable nor questionable, but I wonder how it will be considered in the future?
Personally when asking myself if I want a month of SP to cost $11 or 2.4B isk, I'm still tempted to lean towards the $11 for the same reason I don't PLEX an account, I hate the feeling of being obligated to play for any period of time just to continue doing so. The alternative means of getting it means spending ~$35 instead of that $11.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
328
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 00:03:30 -
[340] - Quote
Studley Ramrod wrote:Skill injection fatigue, just a suggestion....
Those kinds of ideas are too late now.
Still I went from 12.5 million sp to 31 million sp.
But what I found as I'm only training core, frigate, destroyer, and cruiser (combat). Is that the skills I require to train now will take 2 sp injectors so I've reached the point where I prefer to keep the isk. |
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2230
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 00:32:25 -
[341] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:But if everyone starts doing it, there will be no injectors to buy after a while since no one will be subbed to be farming it for sale. SP in the long run will come from alt characters with limited skill requirements, like mining alts or gank alts where the excess SP will be sold to get part of the PLEX costs back. This will make specialized alts free2playish, depending on how much demand there is for such alts and how much for extractors.
I suspect the demand for such alts will be quite high, at least I am planing to unsub all but one account with a general purpose char and create many more free gank accounts which are essentially free now.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 01:56:08 -
[342] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:... and create many more free gank accounts which are essentially free now. Ouch but a good point.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School
227
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 02:16:48 -
[343] - Quote
Ah yes, one of those clever new players investing in their character.
I don't really care what IronBank does, tbh.
Dr Caymus wrote:Looking forward to the Devs weighing in on skill trading concerns. They already did. They described us as "ready for big changes in New Eden" and then "relaxed the scale a little to allow more flexibility at the high end".
Trader20 wrote:Thank the gaming God for this, no more bragging about time spent getting sp numbers. Hmm, maybe there is a silver lining after all. |
Jeanne Tivianne
106
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 02:50:22 -
[344] - Quote
This game is going places.
Dark, sad places :( |
Nachtengel von Rothschild
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 03:50:29 -
[345] - Quote
Some of you people are truly clueless about Iron Bank... he's a banker of the corp called I want Isk. they own a site where you can gamble isk (and yes the site is rigged like most casinos, you have more chances to lose than gain) @ iwantisk.com
he did not pay 30k... he simply took the isk people put into the site (in their corp wallet) and used almost 2 trillion isk worth.
this guy doesn't even have to play or even log on and his corp deposits him money on a monthly basis... so what he does is go on twitch and give some isk away as "giveaways", fully knowing that this would become popular in eve twich channel... he figured... if he were to donate some isk away, people would donate him real money to stream.
he does have a "real" job however, i guess twitch doesn't pay him enough yet.
as for sp injectors themselves... the entire point of eve for the past 13 years was to gain sp so you could do more with your character, now a new account can max 27 years of skill time into 1 hour... ok... so you basically destroyed the core of your game and told the vets who paid you for 13 years to **** off, it's time for some change.
welp... i am not rich, i can't afford to buy injectors... i also don't play a specific game all day every day to make enough isk to buy some either... so i'm just going to let my sub run out and go play something else.
ccp in a nutshell = cancelled wis, cancelled wod, cancelled dust, no word on legion, seagull talking about a vision that never happened, ccp staff keeps leaving including the founders of the company, sold off white wolf, decided to make some VR games when that platform is not even close to being in demand... the list goes on, these are just examples that come off the top of my head
you're a horrible company man, get your **** together ffs.
i'm out |
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
174
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 04:08:58 -
[346] - Quote
Along with others I have posted to the new feature discussion and new ideas discussion about the negative consequences of being able to buy skill points. (qv)
For some players it is only now dawning on them how it is going to affect the game, as others like Ironinject, or whatever his name is, follow in his footsteps and depreciate the years of work by players who trained skills with time. Shell out some bucks, and you too can have more skill points than Dr. Caymus!
Generating revenue by gimicks and selling P2W functionality, instead of by improving gameplay is a road to ruin, killing the golden goose. Disgusted veterans who see years of their lives rendered pointless for a few dollars start to log off. They are replaced by rich 13-year-olds with the attention span of Daffy Duck.
We already saw this whole scenario play out in Dark Age of Camelot, initially a very successful game, which the development company out of sheer greed ruined with a P2W scheme. RIP Dark Age of Camelot (October 2001 to May 29, 2014).
The appearance of this individual with his bought skill points is a very bad omen for all of us. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9882
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 04:19:42 -
[347] - Quote
Droidster wrote:
For some players it is only now dawning on them how it is going to affect the game, as others like Ironinject, or whatever his name is, follow in his footsteps and depreciate the years of work by players who trained skills with time. Shell out some bucks, and you too can have more skill points than Dr. Caymus!
To the underlined.
It's those freaking players that are breaking down their characters to sell. Where do you think the injectors come from?
Stop putting these vets on some kind of pedestal and stop pretending you are bedazzled by the aura of pure goodness surrounding them. They're the ones taking advantage of this. If they weren't selling off all their SP, there'd be none to buy.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
2592
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 04:22:39 -
[348] - Quote
God, even with all those delicious tears in that threads, I'm so sick and tired of that whine threads. If the SP injectors are such a pain in your arse, then just go ffs! Just eff off and be done with it, holy crap! Some of you should step away from the PC anyways, because it looks like you take that game as some kind of replacement religion, holy ****!
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
|
S'Way
1367
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 04:29:35 -
[349] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: Stop putting these vets on some kind of pedestal and stop pretending you are bedazzled by the aura of pure goodness surrounding them. They're the ones taking advantage of this. If they weren't selling off all their SP, there'd be none to buy.
They're also the ones setting up SP farms to keep the supply flowing once they've finished lobotomising their own alts. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 04:31:43 -
[350] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Droidster wrote:
For some players it is only now dawning on them how it is going to affect the game, as others like Ironinject, or whatever his name is, follow in his footsteps and depreciate the years of work by players who trained skills with time. Shell out some bucks, and you too can have more skill points than Dr. Caymus!
To the underlined. It's those freaking players that are breaking down their characters to sell. Where do you think the injectors come from? Stop putting these vets on some kind of pedestal and stop pretending you are bedazzled by the aura of pure goodness surrounding them. They're the ones taking advantage of this. If they weren't selling off all their SP, there'd be none to buy. Mr Epeen
How many of the scandalized players in this thread have sold SP injectors?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 05:07:25 -
[351] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:God, even with all those delicious tears in that threads, I'm so sick and tired of those whine threads. If the SP injectors are such a pain in your arse, then just go ffs! Just eff off and be done with it, holy crap! Some of you should step away from the PC anyways, because it looks like you take that game as some kind of replacement religion, holy ****! Calm down fan-boy.
As to veterans selling SP? I doubt that many who care would "harm" their mains. Alts with limited purpose that have trained random skills because they have a skill queue to fill on the other hand ...
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 05:11:34 -
[352] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:God, even with all those delicious tears in that threads, I'm so sick and tired of those whine threads. If the SP injectors are such a pain in your arse, then just go ffs! Just eff off and be done with it, holy crap! Some of you should step away from the PC anyways, because it looks like you take that game as some kind of replacement religion, holy ****! Calm down fan-boy. As to veterans selling SP? I doubt that many who care would "harm" their mains. Alts with limited purpose that have trained random skills because they have a skill queue to fill on the other hand ...
Still, it undermines the argument that is based on "the principle of it all!!!!!!"
Tell us, have you sold any SP injectors?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:01:11 -
[353] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Tell us, have you sold any SP injectors? ... if only you knew how little SP I had before they came out and how little SP I still have!
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
2592
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:06:13 -
[354] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jacques d'Orleans wrote:God, even with all those delicious tears in that threads, I'm so sick and tired of those whine threads. If the SP injectors are such a pain in your arse, then just go ffs! Just eff off and be done with it, holy crap! Some of you should step away from the PC anyways, because it looks like you take that game as some kind of replacement religion, holy ****! Calm down fan-boy.
Oh wow, an ad hominem, you're such a cool guy. That hasn't anything to do with "fan boy" it's just that whiners like you make me sick. If that game is sooo cruel than leave for fucks sake, simple concept, isn't it?
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:08:40 -
[355] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:... If that game is sooo cruel than leave for fucks sake, simple concept, isn't it? Now I know you haven't read the thread.
(... and I was enjoying twisting the, "Calm down miner" inane reply)
Quote:Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5% This is funny, since you seem to have the angriest words in the thread.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:11:03 -
[356] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Tell us, have you sold any SP injectors? ... if only you knew how little SP I had before they came out and how little SP I still have!
Nice dodge.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:15:04 -
[357] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nice dodge. I didn't think it was a dodge but if you want it categorically then "No." I never have and never will use a skill extractor or injector.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:20:51 -
[358] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Nice dodge. I didn't think it was a dodge but if you want it categorically then "No." I never have and never will use a skill extractor or injector.
Thank you for being explicit vs. being snide and snarky.
Still as for the rest of the scandalized posters...I'd be curious.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
738
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:26:13 -
[359] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: CCP apparently can't make a better game so they started selling it in a different way. Caleb Seremshur wrote: And WOW has woken up to this as well after raping their customers wallets for $15 a month for 10 years. My sub expires in April, when does yours? You need a second job or a better one if you feel sexually and violently assaulted by paying $15 for a whole month of entertainment. My account will be cancelled after I vote for Xenuria. Nana Skalski wrote:EVE is not what you are thinking it is. Its just an experiment, social experiment. They are testing adaptation of human mind to quickly changing environment. The winner will get all icelandic exotic dancers and a ton of hakarl. Not any more. CCP has become a large part of Iceland's economy and they have a greater responsibility to the community around them than messing with a bunch of people online.
The word **** in context means theft or abduction which is the historical definition of the word also, not the hysterical definition you've used here.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:27:57 -
[360] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:... Still as for the rest of the scandalized posters...I'd be curious. Not sure there is a way to prove it though. I think the only thing you can do is look at kill boards for a sudden increase in different ships or a drop in old ships.
I still mine though but haven't lost a barge or exhumer in about 4-5 years, which immediately shows a flaw in this.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 06:42:33 -
[361] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:... Still as for the rest of the scandalized posters...I'd be curious. Not sure there is a way to prove it though. I think the only thing you can do is look at kill boards for a sudden increase in different ships or a drop in old ships. I still mine though but haven't lost a barge or exhumer in about 4-5 years, which immediately shows a flaw in this.
Hand over your API to Chribba....
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2557
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 07:28:41 -
[362] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Hand over your API to Chribba.... Edit: Oh...did I just suggest something unpleasant for may posters? Does that show a progression graph? I mean the eveboard seems to only show the latest point that we reached.
Edit: Found it but doesn't seem to work for me. http://eveboard.com/pilot/name here/progress
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2488
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:05:35 -
[363] - Quote
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:Some of you people are truly clueless about Iron Bank... he's a banker of the corp called I want Isk. they own a site where you can gamble isk (and yes the site is rigged like most casinos, you have more chances to lose than gain) @ iwantisk.com
he did not pay 30k... he simply took the isk people put into the site (in their corp wallet) and used almost 2 trillion isk worth.
this guy doesn't even have to play or even log on and his corp deposits him money on a monthly basis... so what he does is go on twitch and give some isk away as "giveaways", fully knowing that this would become popular in eve twich channel... he figured... if he were to donate some isk away, people would donate him real money to stream.
he does have a "real" job however, i guess twitch doesn't pay him enough yet.
as for sp injectors themselves... the entire point of eve for the past 13 years was to gain sp so you could do more with your character, now a new account can max 27 years of skill time into 1 hour... ok... so you basically destroyed the core of your game and told the vets who paid you for 13 years to **** off, it's time for some change.
welp... i am not rich, i can't afford to buy injectors... i also don't play a specific game all day every day to make enough isk to buy some either... so i'm just going to let my sub run out and go play something else.
ccp in a nutshell = cancelled wis, cancelled wod, cancelled dust, no word on legion, seagull talking about a vision that never happened, ccp staff keeps leaving including the founders of the company, sold off white wolf, decided to make some VR games when that platform is not even close to being in demand... the list goes on, these are just examples that come off the top of my head
you're a horrible company man, get your **** together ffs.
i'm out
concentrate on your own game man, why leave a game because someone else decided to flaunt isk, it doesnt change the actual gameplay and the char you are on is a 2013 so pretty obvious you would never be top of the sp leaderboards so whats the point?
horrible company, yes very horrible for trying to make money lol
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
Chandelin
HELVEGEN Archetype.
38
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:28:34 -
[364] - Quote
*seal clap*
Nice way to f%^k up 10 plus years of training chars CCP
But then again 10 years experience is better than a nub who doesnt know how to use his skills |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1926
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:31:43 -
[365] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Hand over your API to Chribba.... Edit: Oh...did I just suggest something unpleasant for may posters? Does that show a progression graph? I mean the eveboard seems to only show the latest point that we reached. Edit: Found it but doesn't seem to work for me. http://eveboard.com/pilot/name here/progress http://eveboard.com/pilot/Jenshae_Chiroptera/progress works fine, but your provided API key seems invalid and has been for a while. Should give info if you fix it.
Speaking of which, I now know what that randomly named API key I deleted a while back was. Guess I could go fix it.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5255
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 08:32:29 -
[366] - Quote
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote: welp... i am not rich
Rothschild, why you are not rich anymore?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2559
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 11:37:53 -
[367] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: ...works fine, ... I mean the display, I see only empty graphs, regardless of character.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
212
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 11:55:56 -
[368] - Quote
Chandelin wrote:*seal clap*
Nice way to f%^k up 10 plus years of training chars CCP
But then again 10 years experience is better than a nub who doesnt know how to use his skills
but iron is not a nub.. so thats irrelevant.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1789
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:22:51 -
[369] - Quote
I see a lot of people upset about skill trading. Though beyond personal vanity i dont see any actual arguments against it.
Asking people to begin this game 13 years behind with no possibility to close the gap on the vets is a big ask. Especially if those new players put more time in and undock more on the daily than 99% of the bitter class.
People buying skills has no impact on players who dont use the feature. The game is 13 years old and concurrent player levels are dropping, changes like this are good for the game if people can set aside their misplaced culture shock.
Admittedly, there are many other things they could do to improve the new player experience to help retain more new players, but CCP seems unwilling to make the default state of a fresh install of EVE fit for any purpose giving newbs the impression that EVE is completely unplayable. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2559
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:25:32 -
[370] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:... Though beyond personal vanity i dont see any actual arguments against it. .... "Know thy enemy gone" More tantrum kiddies to erode the community will stay.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Lady Anorexia
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:31:22 -
[371] - Quote
Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will.
Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2489
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:33:37 -
[372] - Quote
Lady Anorexia wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA.
nothing like ea because it would only be available for rl cash with ea along with not being achievable any other way, he used isk so no real cost for him
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
Lady Anorexia
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 12:39:09 -
[373] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lady Anorexia wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA. nothing like ea because it would only be available for rl cash with ea along with not being achievable any other way, he used isk so no real cost for him
This wasn't refered to rl cash or not. However, I am sure you are able to read between the lines. |
PsiMin
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
61
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:12:50 -
[374] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:God, even with all those delicious tears in that threads, I'm so sick and tired of those whine threads. If the SP injectors are such a pain in your arse, then just go ffs! Just eff off and be done with it, holy crap! Some of you should step away from the PC anyways, because it looks like you take that game as some kind of replacement religion, holy ****!
wow sounds like someone has been injecting themselves to much. Chill dude, the withdrawal symptoms of using so many will drop soon |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2606
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:12:55 -
[375] - Quote
Lady Anorexia wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA.
Yeah it's such a bad move for a corporation to follow the "lead" of successful ones... |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:15:55 -
[376] - Quote
Anyone else noticed that no single newbie made a post in this thread regarding how positive a change this is for him/her ?
Yea, just sayin ..... |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:18:15 -
[377] - Quote
Lady Anorexia wrote:Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA.
Lol that actually is hilarious, EA and Blizzard are enormously successful companies that can crank out AAA titles that gamers **** themselves for in anticipation.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1790
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:18:44 -
[378] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Anyone else noticed that no single newbie made a post in this thread regarding how positive a change this is for him/her ?
Is there even such a thing as a true newbie in this game anymore ?
Yea, just sayin .....
Theyre probably too bust playing the game. |
Tesla Grass
Akimamur Industries The Revenant Order
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:22:57 -
[379] - Quote
Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling.
This 100% sums up my feelings on this.
|
Varathius
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
215
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:25:01 -
[380] - Quote
Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will.
All skills have been trained. Eve 100% completed. Time to move to new game! |
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Suparion Knox
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:31:00 -
[381] - Quote
This highlights exactly why the skill injector ability should be removed from the game, it is a bad idea and this only goes to prove it.
Please don't ruin this wonderful game by providing lazy people with shortcuts.
The fact that it takes dedication and time to accomplish anything in this game is exactly why I and most others play it. |
Big Lynx
4852
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:32:32 -
[382] - Quote
Varathius wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. All skills have been trained. Eve 100% completed. Time to move to new game!
canz I stuffz your haz? |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:33:08 -
[383] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:I see a lot of people upset about skill trading. Though beyond personal vanity i dont see any actual arguments against it.
Asking people to begin this game 13 years behind with no possibility to close the gap on the vets is a big ask. Especially if those new players put more time in and undock more on the daily than 99% of the bitter class.
People buying skills has no impact on players who dont use the feature. The game is 13 years old and concurrent player levels are dropping, changes like this are good for the game if people can set aside their misplaced culture shock.
Admittedly, there are many other things they could do to improve the new player experience to help retain more new players, but CCP seems unwilling to make the default state of a fresh install of EVE fit for any purpose giving newbs the impression that EVE is completely unplayable.
Your missing the point entirely. Those vets HAD to spend that amount of time and money to get where they have. They were forced to, we even had skills for skill training, clones to pay for etc. Over the past year or so thats all gone, so for new people its 10x easier. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing as such. However what does your character become now?
We might as well remove employment history and date of birth details because its practically irrelevant now.
People asking for 20mill sp on recruitment meant most of the time people not only had the skills but some actual in game experience, now 20, 30, heck 100mill chars can be on 1 day characters. I know you can check on that but SP was the heart of what your character was, now its nothing, meaningless
I know shall we start trading KB kills as well so that not only can you buy SP but you can pretend to have the kills as well. The only people selling the skills are mainly the vets, so when they have finished, where is the rest of the SP coming from? OK there will be a flow but not at these epic levels. The good thing is that people can focus train, and get rid of old stuff. What excitement or interest does this game hold for people, like we used to when we had to wait a days, when now you can instantly become a cap pilot, wheres the in game satisfaction from that? It ends up being like a gambling addict getting the fix.
You have to look at the bigger picture. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13642
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:33:17 -
[384] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lady Anorexia wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA. Yeah it's such a bad move for a corporation to follow the "lead" of successful ones...
So there is no room for a (heretofore) ethical game company that (with the exception of monoclegate) doesn't seem to want to soak it's customers?
That's the underlying issue, and it's the issue the SP trade supporters don't understand. No one (in their right minds that is) cares about imaginary prestige of having more SP than new players. And no one with any sense things these new botox injected high SP characters are going to beat down older/less SP players in pvp.
The actual issue is disappointment.
-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.
-Disappointment because in monetizing the game like this CCP creates yet another wealth faucet that will cheapen the experiences in the game. Loses are already trivial for anyone that can fly an Ishtar in null sec, a bomber in FW or an incursion ship in high sec, and now it's worse because New Eden will be flooded with isk that previously sat in some rich guy's wallet doing nothing. SP trading creates a flow of wealth from new/poor to rich/establihsed that wasn't possible before (because the Character Bazaar had limits).
SP trading isn't the end of EVE. It can't imo be called p2w because there is nothing to win. It is a horrible example of "corporate greed in the false name of progress"
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1790
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:38:27 -
[385] - Quote
Suparion Knox wrote:This highlights exactly why the skill injector ability should be removed from the game, it is a bad idea and this only goes to prove it.
Please don't ruin this wonderful game by providing lazy people with shortcuts.
The fact that it takes dedication and time to accomplish anything in this game is exactly why I and most others play it.
Ok, so someone spent 2 trillion isk on other peoples SP. The SP was not generated from the ether. Huge amounts of historical SP was removed from the game in doing so.
Please explain how this negatively impacts you, because from here it seems you are just impulsively complaining with no basis or rationale.
If anything, there was a useless character called IronBank, now there is a possible target in spae flying something nice for you to shoot. Oh, sorry, looks like im responding to yet another dude in GD that doesnt PVP.
ImYourMom wrote:
Your missing the point entirely. Those vets HAD to spend that amount of time and money to get where they have. They were forced to, we even had skills for skill training, clones to pay for etc. Over the past year or so thats all gone, so for new people its 10x easier. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing as such. However what does your character become now?
We might as well remove employment history and date of birth details because its practically irrelevant now.
People asking for 20mill sp on recruitment meant most of the time people not only had the skills but some actual in game experience, now 20, 30, heck 100mill chars can be on 1 day characters. I know you can check on that but SP was the heart of what your character was, now its nothing, meaningless
I know shall we start trading KB kills as well so that not only can you buy SP but you can pretend to have the kills as well. The only people selling the skills are mainly the vets, so when they have finished, where is the rest of the SP coming from? OK there will be a flow but not at these epic levels. The good thing is that people can focus train, and get rid of old stuff. What excitement or interest does this game hold for people, like we used to when we had to wait a days, when now you can instantly become a cap pilot, wheres the in game satisfaction from that? It ends up being like a gambling addict getting the fix.
You have to look at the bigger picture.
The bigger picture where people buying skills still has no negative impact on you?
Their DOB is still their DOB, their employment history is still their employment history. There was never a 'show info' on peoples SP. Ive never based my decision to attack someone on any of these factors. Focus on the pixels in space, and you should be fine.
You are upset, but you are also being an irrational puritan. Kind of like how people say that gay people getting married will destroy the institution of marriage. Choices are good, keeping people 13 years behind the curve and telling them thats their place and they should be happy with that is bad. |
Lady Anorexia
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:41:04 -
[386] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:On the other hand I am glad that IronBank demonstrated this level of absurdity. It shows the radical change of CCP's CRM for more profit and the painful sacrifice of a USP and kind of magical feature of EvE Online. It all has a bitter and strange taste.... Eve Online quo vadis?
sums it up pretty much |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2490
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:44:00 -
[387] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Lady Anorexia wrote:Admiral Mason wrote:http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank
Make of it what you will. Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA. Yeah it's such a bad move for a corporation to follow the "lead" of successful ones... So there is no room for a (heretofore) ethical game company that (with the exception of monoclegate) doesn't seem to want to soak it's customers? That's the underlying issue, and it's the issue the SP trade supporters don't understand. No one (in their right minds that is) cares about imaginary prestige of having more SP than new players. And no one with any sense things these new botox injected high SP characters are going to beat down older/less SP players in pvp. The actual issue is disappointment. -Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike. -Disappointment because in monetizing the game like this CCP creates yet another wealth faucet that will cheapen the experiences in the game. Loses are already trivial for anyone that can fly an Ishtar in null sec, a bomber in FW or an incursion ship in high sec, and now it's worse because New Eden will be flooded with isk that previously sat in some rich guy's wallet doing nothing. SP trading creates a flow of wealth from new/poor to rich/establihsed that wasn't possible before (because the Character Bazaar had limits). SP trading isn't the end of EVE. It can't imo be called p2w because there is nothing to win. It is a horrible example of "corporate greed in the false name of progress"
I usually agree with the points you make as they are valid, but this is just sounds like anger because its not what you want, ccp are not forcing anyone to spend money and they have played it out to try and satisfy vets and newbies, cant win them all though can you?
-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.
this paragraph just seems like a total entitlement whine, let me ask you something, if the above statement was so great and ccp stuck to a deadend business model which clearly was not working to keep new players here, how exactly do they make money? they cant raise sub subscriptions because that causes outrage, how do they research new tech, pay for better servers, pay the developers in an constant price inflating world where subscriptions seem to be falling?
This doesnt personally affect your game unless you choose to let it affect your game
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:44:57 -
[388] - Quote
oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less? |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
714
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:46:07 -
[389] - Quote
So some char which probably never undocks has max skills. Big deal.
CCP has test chars with max skills, they also destroy your EVE experience?
Many other people have basically the same perfect skills as this one, only they have split it between different characters. Why would I want science and production skills on my pvp char? Useless.
Performance-wise, this perfect char is maybe 2-3% better than the average 120m SP character in any given situation.
So basically this is just a fun story, nothing more.
.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2490
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:46:54 -
[390] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?
lol ok, is that the game where you have to buy single and multiplayer seperately? people moan at ccp then move to star citizen which is farse regarding money
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
|
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Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:48:48 -
[391] - Quote
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money? Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income. |
Big Lynx
4853
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:49:27 -
[392] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:ImYourMom wrote:oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less? people moan at ccp then move to star citizen which is farse regarding money
like EvE now |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1790
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:50:12 -
[393] - Quote
Codie Rin wrote:Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money? Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.
Think about it mate.
The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here. |
Suparion Knox
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:50:25 -
[394] - Quote
OUCH!!! My tender psyche has been irrevocably dented. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2383
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:50:48 -
[395] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less? probably what CCP is thinking too. games old. expiry date on all MMOs.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:52:16 -
[396] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money? Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income. Think about it mate. The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here.
Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1790
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:57:36 -
[397] - Quote
Codie Rin wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money? Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income. Think about it mate. The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here. Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk.
When people buy PLEX with isk. Someone, somewhere spent real life money to create that PLEX. PLEX just represents 1 month subscription and its RL cost is higher than simply paying a month subscription on your own account.
The added cost represents the value of being able to market the PLEX in game and as such pay other peoples subscriptions for in game reward. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13645
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 13:58:51 -
[398] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
I usually agree with the points you make as they are valid, but this is just sounds like anger because its not what you want, ccp are not forcing anyone to spend money and they have played it out to try and satisfy vets and newbies, cant win them all though can you?
The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.
The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.
What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.
Quote: -Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.
this paragraph just seems like a total entitlement whine, let me ask you something, if the above statement was so great and ccp stuck to a deadend business model which clearly was not working to keep new players here, how exactly do they make money? they cant raise sub subscriptions because that causes outrage, how do they research new tech, pay for better servers, pay the developers in an constant price inflating world where subscriptions seem to be falling?
You act like CCP was in some kind of poor house. They weren't EVE was making a profit, apparently not enough of a profit for stake holders, but more than enough to do what they were doing. Apparently their financial situation was good enough to borrow 30 million dollars for Valkyrie. No bank I know of loans money to unprofitable business.
Your problem is that you aren't being properly critical of this issue because you seem to have paired it with some belief that EVE would die without out it. CCP could have done a whole slew of other things instead of this, they could have stuck to the 'cosmetic only' micro transactions and simply gotten better at making things like Skins (we told them during the skin bug that we'd pay for more customization ability, for example).
Quote: This doesnt personally affect your game unless you choose to let it affect your game
I expected more from you than this kind of cop out. That's the kind of thing people say when they know they are defending a bad thing. I'm going to bookmark this particular post and show it to you in a year or so when the deleterious affects of this new unnecessary wealth faucet has had time to affect the game.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13645
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:03:24 -
[399] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?
The worse ting about all of this is that it's made me (me, who is amongst the most fanatical EVE players ever) start to think about life without EVE. Not that me playing something else it would put a dent in CCP.
But in this case, CCP has made Chris freaking Roberts seem like the more honest prospect. At least he takes money out of people front pockets for his pipe dream as opposed to CCPs new back pocket SP trading tactic....
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1791
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:06:58 -
[400] - Quote
All i would add, while i have no problem with the current set up of SP injectors.
Perhaps the better way of managing this would be that once you have 80m SP you can no longer inject...
Though, like ive said, i dont really care about how many SP a character has. |
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Big Lynx
4853
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:10:26 -
[401] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:All i would add, while i have no problem with the current set up of SP injectors.
Perhaps the better way of managing this would be that once you have 80m SP you can no longer inject...
Though, like ive said, i dont really care about how many SP a character has. contradictory argumentation dude. |
Verlyn
Sisters of Xambu
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:17:29 -
[402] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Verlyn wrote:Anyone else noticed that no single newbie made a post in this thread regarding how positive a change this is for him/her ?
Is there even such a thing as a true newbie in this game anymore ?
Yea, just sayin ..... Theyre probably too busy playing the game.
You mean, the forum-alt game ? |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1791
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:18:44 -
[403] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:All i would add, while i have no problem with the current set up of SP injectors.
Perhaps the better way of managing this would be that once you have 80m SP you can no longer inject...
Though, like ive said, i dont really care about how many SP a character has. contradictory argumentation dude.
Contradictory to what?
The word you are looking for is 'conciliatory'. |
Lady Moonrise
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:22:45 -
[404] - Quote
CCP totally broke that game with this useless skill trading system. That's why I unsubbed all my accounts and hopefully many will follow to do so! |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:28:37 -
[405] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.
The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.
What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.
And there it is, the e-honor space bushido argument.
Paying money to advance in a game is 'weak'. Not allowing players this option is 'good', therefore allowing it must be 'bad'.
That indeed bad and dishonorable, bad CCP : / CCP Falcon must atone harikari.
Just because you don't have disposable income to spend on gaming doesn't make others weak for doing so. Use it as incentive to do better life. If you do have money and don't spend then just admit other people spend for their hobbies more than you. Its not bad just different, like buying a fancy golf club set when a cheaper set would work just fine. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13650
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:40:55 -
[406] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.
The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.
What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.
And there it is, the e-honor space bushido argument. Paying money to advance in a game is 'weak'. Not allowing players this option is 'good', therefore allowing it must be 'bad'. That indeed bad and dishonorable, bad CCP : / CCP Falcon must atone harikari. Just because you don't have disposable income to spend on gaming doesn't make others weak for doing so. Use it as incentive to do better life. If you do have money and don't spend then just admit other people spend for their hobbies more than you. Its not bad just different, like buying a fancy golf club set when a cheaper set would work just fine.
Oh look an apologist for abusive cor prate greed that preys. Where is Mr. Epeen with his Fox News analogies now I wonder?
But more seriously, I've been at my job for 18 years this next May, I have plenty to spend on a game. Buiy why would I need to since I've made 25 bil stripping unwanted toons of sp?
What you are doing is trying to imagine that opposition to SP trading is based on some form of personal self intertets. People do this as a way of minimizing other folks ideas (with the side affect of not having to thing critically about their own).
Well sorry, this isn't about self interest other than my personal love of what EVE is. SP trading doens't hurt me, hell it's helped, I don't have to worry about game time for months now. So what if I get a bad drop for a 10/10 or 'ammo and a tag' from a faction spawn. My SP farming alts are producing WEALTH right now at the rate of 2200 SP per hour.
You see, some of us can look past mere short term self interest when anaylsing a problem. SP is great for individuals (like me) short term, it's bad long term because it affects a wide array of issue (like incentive to play for older players, incentive to learn for younger players etc) that it was not intended to. Like I did with Dominion (when all those idiot proclaimed the coming death of the big blocs), I plan on saving this thread and showing it to you in about a year. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2493
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:47:21 -
[407] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
I usually agree with the points you make as they are valid, but this is just sounds like anger because its not what you want, ccp are not forcing anyone to spend money and they have played it out to try and satisfy vets and newbies, cant win them all though can you?
The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts. The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game. What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing. Quote: -Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.
this paragraph just seems like a total entitlement whine, let me ask you something, if the above statement was so great and ccp stuck to a deadend business model which clearly was not working to keep new players here, how exactly do they make money? they cant raise sub subscriptions because that causes outrage, how do they research new tech, pay for better servers, pay the developers in an constant price inflating world where subscriptions seem to be falling?
You act like CCP was in some kind of poor house. They weren't EVE was making a profit, apparently not enough of a profit for stake holders, but more than enough to do what they were doing. Apparently their financial situation was good enough to borrow 30 million dollars for Valkyrie. No bank I know of loans money to unprofitable business. Your problem is that you aren't being properly critical of this issue because you seem to have paired it with some belief that EVE would die without out it. CCP could have done a whole slew of other things instead of this, they could have stuck to the 'cosmetic only' micro transactions and simply gotten better at making things like Skins (we told them during the skin bug that we'd pay for more customization ability, for example). Quote: This doesnt personally affect your game unless you choose to let it affect your game
I expected more from you than this kind of cop out. That's the kind of thing people say when they know they are defending a bad thing. I'm going to bookmark this particular post and show it to you in a year or so when the deleterious affects of this new unnecessary wealth faucet has had time to affect the game.
Im neutral to it all, i dont see it as a bad thing till they block out half my overview with advetisments for floor cleaner unless i buy a monthly overview pack for rl cash, at the end of the day it doesn't really affect me and my game, ill still have fun the same way as i did before, because i chose not to concern myself with what the other character is or isnt doing. im not being critical because i dont see much difference from character bazaar, nothing to do with eve dying.
ccp maybe not in a poor house but businesses making money is pretty standard practice and i dont know the financial situation of ccp so cant really comment, eve probably wouldn't die but its clear that it wasnt expanding further with the current model. only time would tell what would happen and i personally wouldnt want to see ccp just randomly turn off the servers because eve was a deadend.
They aint praying they are giving people who dont have the time but have the money to invest and create an experience similar to those who invested 10 years, its completely optional and they dont even ram the advertisments down my throat.
As for the other microtransactions, they are pretty garbage doesn't matter how you paint it they dont make you perform something better than previously so the appeal is limited.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1792
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:48:58 -
[408] - Quote
If the skill training mechanics is what keep you playing then you are doing it wrong. And applying your standards of how the game should be developed is a horrible idea. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
502
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:54:48 -
[409] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:When JonnyPew extracted 100m+ SP CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar tweeted, that his mind was blown by this actionOr in other words: "We didn't see that coming!" Can't wait for his Tweet on what this thread is about. With his mind already blown away by JonnyPew I'm afraid IronBank might have blown Hilmars balls... in one way or the other. Hilmer is incompetent if he couldn't predict something like this happening. Looks like he and Rise needs to step down from their positions.
Then again it may already be too late to recover from this aforementioned disaster.
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 14:57:14 -
[410] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Well sorry, this isn't about self interest other than my personal love of what EVE is. SP trading doens't hurt me, hell it's helped, I don't have to worry about game time for months now. So what if I get a bad drop for a 10/10 or 'ammo and a tag' from a faction spawn. My SP farming alts are producing WEALTH right now at the rate of 2200 SP per hour.
You see, some of us can look past mere short term self interest when anaylsing a problem. SP is great for individuals (like me) short term, it's bad long term because it affects a wide array of issue (like incentive to play for older players, incentive to learn for younger players etc) that it was not intended to. Like I did with Dominion (when all those idiot proclaimed the coming death of the big blocs), I plan on saving this thread and showing it to you in about a year.
Your imagined 'wide array of issues' are the issue. If you don't like the change and it makes the game less enjoyable for you it doesn't mean that every older player less incentive to play. I can see how an armchair psychologist might be confused, but its pretty basic intro psych stuff called 'projection'.
|
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stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:00:09 -
[411] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.
Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy.
Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine.
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Gal Prof
Perkone Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:05:35 -
[412] - Quote
First Maxed Eve Account. Definitely not the last. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13651
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:10:00 -
[413] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.
Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy. Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine.
This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby.... |
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:15:02 -
[414] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money? Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income. Think about it mate. The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here. Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk. When people buy PLEX with isk. Someone, somewhere spent real life money to create that PLEX. PLEX just represents 1 month subscription and its RL cost is higher than simply paying a month subscription on your own account. The added cost represents the value of being able to market the PLEX in game and as such pay other peoples subscriptions for in game reward.
Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example. Basically you pay for your subs with real cash.
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stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:20:12 -
[415] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby....
So EVE players are not responsible person?
Cynical, obvious you think you so smart from posts, but all the rest of players are irresponsible children who can't be trusted not to spend rent money on injectors?
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5283
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:21:08 -
[416] - Quote
Codie Rin wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Codie Rin wrote:Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money? Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income. Think about it mate. The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here. Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk. When people buy PLEX with isk. Someone, somewhere spent real life money to create that PLEX. PLEX just represents 1 month subscription and its RL cost is higher than simply paying a month subscription on your own account. The added cost represents the value of being able to market the PLEX in game and as such pay other peoples subscriptions for in game reward. Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example. Basically you pay for your subs with real cash. FOR FREE? What about the energy bill and ruined relationships outside game? Nothing is free in this world. Playing games and grinding is what is scourge upon this lands.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:22:34 -
[417] - Quote
Quote: FOR FREE? What about the energy bill and ruined relationships outside game? Nothing is free in this world. Playing games and grinding is what is scourge upon this lands.
yeah OK missed that one :) |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:23:55 -
[418] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: FOR FREE? What about the energy bill and ruined relationships outside game? Nothing is free in this world. Playing games and grinding is what is scourge upon this lands.
Why is it all of you can't seem to play game without destroying life? Is that common thing about people in thread, all ignore wife and miss bill pay and ignore friends to fly spaceships?
EDIT: If this was sarcasm then sorry, posting quicker harder to understand then slowly. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5283
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:24:03 -
[419] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.
Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy. Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine. This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby.... That is just an ideal business environment.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1792
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:33:28 -
[420] - Quote
Codie Rin wrote: Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example. Basically you pay for your subs with real cash.
But that wont make more money for CCP, it will make less.
As i have said, PLEX is more expensive than a month subscription. This means CCP gets more money when someone buys a PLEX and sells it on the market than they do when the potential buyer of that PLEX subscribes for a month. Much less if they subscribe for a year.
Having the option to pay your subscription with PLEX gives people the option to pay, at an elevated rate, your subscription at the cost of your ISK.
More options is good and enables people to make choices that suit them.
This is the same with SP trading. The new options gives people the choice to advance faster. This is a good thing and helps people feel invested in the game. The rate of older players investing 4bn ISK per 1m SP (15 days of training) is not going to be that excessive. Nor will it effect your game in the slightest. |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2561
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:34:08 -
[421] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Please explain how this negatively impacts you, Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:... Though beyond personal vanity i dont see any actual arguments against it. .... "Know thy enemy gone" More tantrum kiddies to erode the community will stay. stg slate wrote:Lady Anorexia wrote:Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA. Lol that actually is hilarious, EA and Blizzard are enormously successful companies that can crank out AAA titles that gamers **** themselves for in anticipation. I am lost for words so take this picture.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1792
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:40:11 -
[422] - Quote
What do you base that hypothetical on?
Young players are tantrum kiddies and older players are mature and desirable?
You realise that all old players were once young players, right? And regardless of their demeanor, this game needs new players.
Perhaps you should lay off the hypotheticals, you are not very good at it. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13662
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:41:58 -
[423] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby.... So EVE players are not responsible person? Cynical, obvious you think you so smart from posts, but all the rest of players are irresponsible children who can't be trusted not to spend rent money on injectors?
Yep, another one of those deny the truth mindsets. Where did I say "all the rest"?
I'm sure most EVE players are responsible people. But some aren't, some are even mentally ill and vulnerable. What was good about CCP before now was that they weren't one of the companies that adopted the predatory moves (that targeted thos vulnerable types) with regards to their business. Sure, they had a harsh game, but as a company they were mostly above board except during monoclegate.
Now they seem to be on the path of being like the soulless gaming mega companies that no one I know likes but everyone seems to give money to (EA,Daybreak, Blizzard etc). They're literally transforming from friendly niche mom-and pop eatery on the corner into McDonalds. Don't we have enough McDonalds?
Thus the term 'sell out', such as when you sell out the solid and respectable principles that let you survive so long and create a fanatically loyal fanbase (ie people like me) in an attempt to go mainstream and make more money. Plot twist: It doesn't make you any more money in the long run AND you ticked off the loyal fanbase by just attempting it lol. |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
61
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:44:43 -
[424] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I am lost for words so take this picture.
From posts it obvious you hate the big dog game companies and want EVE to forever be special snowflake game produced by poor people working only for love of game and earning no money and catering to indie wet dream.
Find indie MMO to play might make you way happier. EVE is not indie, CCP is bigger company than you imagine.
The game and company have outgrown your ideas. They would like to know that their company will still be around in 10 years so they seek way to make money so their employees can have stability and future. No fun working for a company when future is uncertain, so they seek to divest themselves to many games and platforms in case EVE dies they still have a company and people still have work.
All eggs in one basket is bad business.
|
Gal Prof
Perkone Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:49:09 -
[425] - Quote
Would love to see more MAXED characters til it becomes a norm. LOL.
Heck, i would love to maxed out my character if i had the ISK to do so. |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
61
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:49:55 -
[426] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Now they seem to be on the path of being like the soulless gaming mega companies that no one I know likes but everyone seems to give money to (EA,Daybreak, Blizzard etc). They're literally transforming from friendly niche mom-and pop eatery on the corner into McDonalds. Don't we have enough McDonalds?
Thus the term 'sell out', such as when you sell out the solid and respectable principles that let you survive so long and create a fanatically loyal fanbase (ie people like me) in an attempt to go mainstream and make more money. Plot twist: It doesn't make you any more money in the long run AND you ticked off the loyal fanbase by just attempting it lol.
Yes that strategy works terribly for EA, Riot, Blizzard, etc, that's why those companies are in the poorhouse and about to close.
What the hell is Daybreak even doing in that list? Are they even notable enough to have any comment above the fold? You probably made the talk of their water-cooler by even mentioning their company name.
Expect a direct tweet from Smedly thanking you for trying to make him and his people relevant to any discussion |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5283
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:50:30 -
[427] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Don't we have enough McDonalds? There is no McDonalds here where I live. But you can still eat a burger. If they would not sell them here, probably McDonalds would. If CCP would not do that, someone else in industry would, and people would go there. Sometimes you must sell the burger, or McDonalods will, and it would be good to sell different (better) burgers than McDonalds.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:50:44 -
[428] - Quote
Gal Prof wrote:Would love to see more MAXED characters til it becomes a norm. LOL.
Or a necessity...
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5283
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:53:13 -
[429] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Gal Prof wrote:Would love to see more MAXED characters til it becomes a norm. LOL. Or a necessity... --Gadget Do it, max out your char. I dare you.
If you dont see pointlesness of that, do it.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2607
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:56:58 -
[430] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Gal Prof wrote:Would love to see more MAXED characters til it becomes a norm. LOL. Or a necessity... --Gadget
It will never be a necessity since there are 0 activity in the game that require the full skill set. |
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
61
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:57:03 -
[431] - Quote
It seems unideal to even max a single character, better to spend point all 3 characters on account. 3 times the research, jobs, production, PI, trade sales slots, contract, etc.
Single maxed character is novelty.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13664
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 15:59:45 -
[432] - Quote
stg slate wrote:
Yes that strategy works terribly for EA, Riot, Blizzard, etc, that's why those companies are in the poorhouse and about to close.
You are exactly the kind of consumer these people need to exist. I mean, as long as they're making money, who cares about respectability, ethics, and square dealing? We couldn't have Wal-Mart killing every single small business in a 10 mile radius around one of their stores without your type lol. Congrats.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2607
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:04:45 -
[433] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby.... So EVE players are not responsible person? Cynical, obvious you think you so smart from posts, but all the rest of players are irresponsible children who can't be trusted not to spend rent money on injectors? Now they seem to be on the path of being like the soulless gaming mega companies that no one I know likes but everyone seems to give money to (EA,Daybreak, Blizzard etc). They're literally transforming from friendly niche mom-and pop eatery on the corner into McDonalds. Don't we have enough McDonalds?
They should forgo a revenue stream for the purity of the gaming scene? How much of your own money is at stake when you say they should not thrive to grow their revenue? |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:09:08 -
[434] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote: Yes that strategy works terribly for EA, Riot, Blizzard, etc, that's why those companies are in the poorhouse and about to close.
You are exactly the kind of consumer these people need to exist. I mean, as long as they're making money, who cares about respectability, ethics, and square dealing? We couldn't have Wal-Mart killing every single small business in a 10 mile radius around one of their stores without your type lol. Congrats.
Haha I was right all along, you are smelly hippy!
Fight the man meat is murder you can't OWN property, man! Big business i bad
I'd rather pay a fair price for food than get raped over by a mom and pop shop who wants 9.50 for a box of cheerios. Small business dies because they have spent 100 years screwing people on price and now people can buy stuff at fair price.
Screw Borders and Bars&Nobles too, go amazon!
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2608
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:11:38 -
[435] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:
Yes that strategy works terribly for EA, Riot, Blizzard, etc, that's why those companies are in the poorhouse and about to close.
You are exactly the kind of consumer these people need to exist. I mean, as long as they're making money, who cares about respectability, ethics, and square dealing? We couldn't have Wal-Mart killing every single small business in a 10 mile radius around one of their stores without your type lol. Congrats.
If local shops provided what they promise for their higher prices, people would still go. The issue is many don't provide anything over the wal-mart experience so people just go for the lower price. |
Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:20:33 -
[436] - Quote
Since CCP are going rather nuts on trying to make loads of wonga, can we get some "Guristas Pirate" , tattoos for our character, i would also like some bunny ears / hairband. No wait.... Perhaps add it as a bonus feature for buying a ship package.
or.... "cough"
The Guristas Pirate - beg for mercy pirate pack
This pack will give you every skill needed to fly a "Worm" ,"Gila" , "Rattlesnake" , the pack includes tattoos, bunny ears / hairband. 5x Worms, 4x Gila, 2x Rattlesnake. (If you already own, some of the skills guttered, the price is fixed.. hehe)
DLC extra for this pack - You can only get this with the above pack.
Guristas Ammo, Pick your poison. 50k ammo pack / Choose 3 types of ammo. Guristas Aug drones (special edition) , Pick your poison / Choose 3 types from Light, Medium, Heavy. (Or Gecko) Full set of Deadspace Guristas modules, so you get the Ulimate fitted pve / pvp killing machines for: Worm - Gila - Rattlesnake "cough" , will makes Officer modes look like watered down chilly
EVEBoard ...Just over 30million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:24:54 -
[437] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.
Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy. Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine. This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby....
The only thing that makes sense to me with this post I'm replying to, is that sp injectors can be addictive.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:25:26 -
[438] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: If you dont see pointlesness of that, do it.
Frostys Virpio wrote: It will never be a necessity since there are 0 activity in the game that require the full skill set.
For the full skill sheet, you're absolutely right. Hyperbole has it's uses - usually involving standing out and mnemonics. My statement served it's purpose.
However, for more focused pursuits? I fully see maxing out a skill set in an instant having an effect on the game. A better skilled industrialist make more of a profit. So will said miner. The SP bar for recruitment will be raised.
And for what it's worth, I don't think characters should be sold either. /shrug
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2609
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:28:11 -
[439] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: If you dont see pointlesness of that, do it. Frostys Virpio wrote: It will never be a necessity since there are 0 activity in the game that require the full skill set. For the full skill sheet, you're absolutely right. Hyperbole has it's uses - usually involving standing out and mnemonics. My statement served it's purpose. However, for more focused pursuits? I fully see maxing out a skill set in an instant having an effect on the game. A better skilled industrialist make more of a profit. So will said miner. The SP bar for recruitment will be raised. And for what it's worth, I don't think characters should be sold either. /shrug--Gadget
If you are honest with the bold part, at least you are not a hypocrite and I can respect that. If you are not honest, then sorry but perfect or close to it alts can be bought for pretty much anything worthwhile. |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:28:23 -
[440] - Quote
Avvy wrote: The only thing that makes sense to me with this post I'm replying to, is that sp injectors can be addictive.
Yeah, but so can trading cards, but people are making it seem like the pokemon people making trading cards is like heroin dealer targeting children.
|
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2609
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:31:17 -
[441] - Quote
Celise Katelo wrote:Since CCP are going rather nuts on trying to make loads of wonga, can we get some "Guristas Pirate" , tattoos for our character, i would also like some bunny ears / hairband. No wait.... Perhaps add it as a bonus feature for buying a ship package. or.... "cough" The Guristas Pirate - beg for mercy pirate packThis pack will give you every skill needed to fly a "Worm" ,"Gila" , "Rattlesnake" , the pack includes tattoos, bunny ears / hairband. 5x Worms, 4x Gila, 2x Rattlesnake. (If you already own, some of the skills guttered, the price is fixed.. hehe) DLC extra for this pack - You can only get this with the above pack. Guristas Ammo, Pick your poison. 50k ammo pack / Choose 3 types of ammo. Guristas Aug drones (special edition) , Pick your poison / Choose 3 types from Light, Medium, Heavy. (Or Gecko) Full set of Deadspace Guristas modules, so you get the Ulimate fitted pve / pvp killing machines for: Worm - Gila - Rattlesnake "cough" , will make Officer mods look like watered down chilly
The closest thing to that has been added to the game at least a year ago and I don't really remember people throwing fits over the beginner packages on steam giving away ventures and some minerals for new accounts. If you were not flipping your **** back then, SP trading is a much lower "offense" to the "purity" of the game since nothing is created out of thin air. It's only a transfer with potentially harsh diminishing returns. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2609
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:32:56 -
[442] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Avvy wrote: The only thing that makes sense to me with this post I'm replying to, is that sp injectors can be addictive.
Yeah, but so can trading cards, but people are making it seem like the pokemon people making trading cards is like heroin dealer targeting children.
Trading card game at least have a use. You can play the game with them. Go with sport cards which serve nothing but collecting in purpose and see how easy it is to find shops for those close to school or sporting venue. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:36:37 -
[443] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: If you dont see pointlesness of that, do it. Frostys Virpio wrote: It will never be a necessity since there are 0 activity in the game that require the full skill set. For the full skill sheet, you're absolutely right. Hyperbole has its uses - usually involving standing out and mnemonics. My statement served its purpose. However, for more focused pursuits? I fully see maxing out a skill set in an instant having an effect on the game. A better skilled industrialist make more of a profit. So will said miner. The SP bar for recruitment will be raised. And for what it's worth, I don't think characters should be sold either. /shrug --Gadget
And if you don't meet their stands, so what, their loss. |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:37:50 -
[444] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: Trading card game at least have a use. You can play the game with them. Go with sport cards which serve nothing but collecting in purpose and see how easy it is to find shops for those close to school or sporting venue.
This is not utilitarian utopia, people can buy stuff for fun that has no direct 'Use' and doesn't directly increase net wealth and better you. Collecting stuff is fine.
It's like this forum is full of Ayn Rand somedays.
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:39:17 -
[445] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote: And for what it's worth, I don't think characters should be sold either. /shrug --Gadget
To be honest, if they weren't sold then the skill injectors shouldn't exist either. Unfortunately the character bazaar has been a thing forever.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13665
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:40:28 -
[446] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Avvy wrote: The only thing that makes sense to me with this post I'm replying to, is that sp injectors can be addictive.
Yeah, but so can trading cards, but people are making it seem like the pokemon people making trading cards is like heroin dealer targeting children.
You might not not have kids that live with you, because that's exactly how it feels.. I suffered a pokemon war in my own house. Kids are grown now but looking back over those battles I'd rather they'd just smoked weed or something...
Death to pokemon. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:42:36 -
[447] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote: And for what it's worth, I don't think characters should be sold either. /shrug --Gadget
To be honest, if they weren't sold then the skill injectors shouldn't exist either. Unfortunately the character bazaar has been a thing forever.
Well, I kind of agree. the character bazaar, should never have happened if they want sp to mean something. The fact the character bazaar was allowed to happen paved the way for sp injectors. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
628
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:46:21 -
[448] - Quote
The Character Bazaar - even though I don't like it was not too bad. Character trading is going to happen anyway in an MMOG, whether it's allowed or not. So, I think it's better to allow it in a regulated, controlled fashion than to let it run wild on ebay. |
Big Lynx
4853
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:46:31 -
[449] - Quote
Dayum, I can see the briefing of the controllling department in CCP's HQ before announcing SP-Trading. That decision must have been one of the hardest for CCP Devs. I am pretty sure of that.
It's not easy to see the long term consquences for the health of the game, but my gut feeling tells me that they will be not for good advantage. EvE has reached or fell down on the same level like every other average MMO. *sigh* |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:46:42 -
[450] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You might not not have kids that live with you, because that's exactly how it feels.. I suffered a pokemon war in my own house. Kids are grown now but looking back over those battles I'd rather they'd just smoked weed or something... Death to pokemon.
Magic cards, same drug different company
All joking aside though, no one sucks a **** or stabs someone for pokemon cards. And they won't for injectors either.
|
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5288
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:46:45 -
[451] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Avvy wrote: The only thing that makes sense to me with this post I'm replying to, is that sp injectors can be addictive.
Yeah, but so can trading cards, but people are making it seem like the pokemon people making trading cards is like heroin dealer targeting children. You might not not have kids that live with you, because that's exactly how it feels.. I suffered a pokemon war in my own house. Kids are grown now but looking back over those battles I'd rather they'd just smoked weed or something... Death to pokemon. Its true, spaceships are like pokemon.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
169
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:48:44 -
[452] - Quote
I hate this sh!#
Not even going to bother saying why because pretty much all of eve said no to this and CCP said: "F@#$ You! Pay Me!"
But you will break the game CCP... "F@#$ You! Pay Me!"
But doing this makes EVE not special... "F@#$ You! Pay Me!" |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:50:10 -
[453] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Dayum, I can see the briefing of the controllling department in CCP's HQ before announcing SP-Trading. That decision must have been one of the hardest for CCP Devs. I am pretty sure of that.
It's not easy to see the long term consquences for the health of the game, but my gut feeling tells me that they will be not for good advantage. EvE has reached or fell down to the level of average MMOs. *sigh*
What about EVE made you think it wasn't like every MMO? All the EVE is real marketing nonsense?
It is like every MMO except it has a weird skill system and slightly rougher death penalty than most(not all, rather lose a ship than die during EQ classic times).
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:51:13 -
[454] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:The Character Bazaar - even though I don't like it was not too bad. Character trading is going to happen anyway in an MMOG, whether it's allowed or not. So, I think it's better to allow it in a regulated, controlled fashion than to let it run wild on ebay.
Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:53:07 -
[455] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:I hate this sh!#
Not even going to bother saying why because pretty much all of eve said no to this and CCP said: F@#$ You!
With the amount of sales of sp injectors, I'd say that it seems like a lot said yes to sp extractors/injectors.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13666
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:56:09 -
[456] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Magic cards, same drug different company All joking aside though, no one sucks a **** or stabs someone for pokemon cards. And they won't for injectors either.
Oh really?
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2239
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:57:22 -
[457] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:59:56 -
[458] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Magic cards, same drug different company All joking aside though, no one sucks a **** or stabs someone for pokemon cards. And they won't for injectors either. Oh really?
Damned Kentucky, that's like America's America, I don't think it counts |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 16:59:56 -
[459] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.
You wouldn't as there were no max skill characters, if there was then it would have been possible. |
Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:12:02 -
[460] - Quote
1. Be sketch RMT'er, have tons of isk from RMT.
2. Spend otherwise useless isk (21 hours logged in? He doesn't play the game, come on...) on skill injectors
3. Disgruntled players unwittingly make character into poster boy for hate, hits for RMT website go up slightly
4. ?????
5. Profit
> Do not stubbornly rebel against the ways of the world. Do not mindlessly follow the ways of the world. Think lightly of yourself and think deeply of the world. You can abandon your own body, but never let go of your honor. Miyamoto Musashi, Dokkodo
|
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Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
169
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:20:42 -
[461] - Quote
Avvy wrote: With the amount of sales of sp injectors, I'd say that it seems like a lot said yes to sp extractors/injectors.
Diminishing returns and instant gratification are interesting human dynamics with fascinating side effects.
The SP barrier was broken by Character trading of any type from day 1 of EVE and is the root cause of the current new player dissatisfaction with EVE.
This kill the patient to heal them SP injector fiasco simply makes SP mandatory to have at level 5 in whatever your flying and make no mistake Corps and FC's will now be expecting you to be at level 5 in any ship that is FOTM right now and not in three months from now because everyone they are fighting could be or is at level 5 so that's the way it is now.
It's spilled milk at this point.
I paid my account years in advance planning to play EVE long term... I now have buyers remorse but might as well get my moneys worth even if most everything in EVE has no consequences and nothing matters as it can all be bypassed and manipulated beyond reason.
I gave CCP a lot of real cash for this subscription but the greedy F#@!s just love their money and always will degrade their product any way they can to get more it seems.
/pissed |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2610
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:21:06 -
[462] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.
AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:21:14 -
[463] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:When JonnyPew extracted 100m+ SP CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar tweeted, that his mind was blown by this actionOr in other words: "We didn't see that coming!" Can't wait for his Tweet on what this thread is about. With his mind already blown away by JonnyPew I'm afraid IronBank might have blown Hilmars balls... in one way or the other.
Did you pay attention to what JonnyPew was saying? He did it for three main reasons:
1: To keep a record of him doing something so incredible that he could look back on it and recall it completely.
2: To show all of us how to work with the extractors/injectors
3: To move his active main from Sir Livingston to JonnyPew.
His 4th sub reason was 'to get rid of all the skills he had trained that he'd trained just to keep his character training'.
This is EXACTLY what the entire SP Trading was intended to be for, so maybe the CEO's mind was blown by someone actually using it for what it was intended for.
JonnyPew demonstrated that he had to blow large amounts of his stored PLEX to get enough extractors to get the extractors. Then he LOST SP value in putting it into injectors and had to be careful not to inject too much to avoid the 70% penalty at 80 mil SP. The entire video was a veteran doing what CCP planned vets to do with it.
Yes they can convert them into PLEX and get richer... so what, you can do the same by just playing the game as an expert and being efficient at ISK gathering.
Yes, you can do what IronBank did and WASTE MASSIVE AMOUNTS of SP by maxxing out a character with SP. This isn't something that is cool or even remotely damaging to the game. It demonstrates that someone with enough time or money or both can blow it all on a useless exercise. There is nothing in the game he can fly that can't be killed in. His skills will not save him.
I don't admire what Ironbank did, it was a useless waste of resources and now people are holding it as an example of how the game is ruined. I'm sorry, I don't agree at all. There are controls on the SP trading/injecting process and you have to be willing to completely blow away massive resources to get past them. No sane person will do this for an actual playing toon unless they like wasting time/money.
I do admire what JonnyPew did and thank him greatly for his example of how the system works and how it can be used by vet players to continue to make their EVE experience fun and new. It gives me hope for keeping the game fresh. +10 to JonnyPew.
Instead of griping about it, just play the game your way, who cares what anyone else does. Go blow away IronBank if you ever run across him- THAT is bragging rights. I play for me and don't care how well trained your toon is. I'm working on my toon! |
pajedas
145
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:27:26 -
[464] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I play for me and don't care how well trained your toon is. I'm working on my toon! How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:30:46 -
[465] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote: This kill the patient to heal them SP injector fiasco simply makes SP mandatory to have at level 5 in whatever your flying and make no mistake Corps and FC's will now be expecting you to be at level 5 in any ship that is FOTM right now and not in three months from now because everyone they are fighting could be or is at level 5 so that's the way it is now.
Not sure I'd want to join them anyway, as having sp doesn't necessarily make you a decent pilot. Those that think it does, won't be worth joining. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic
1707
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:32:41 -
[466] - Quote
The only thing I don't like about skill injectors is no cap. The limits don't really prevent something like this from happening. Is this bad, no not really but the reason for skill injectors was to allow people to customize and obtain something like from the Character Bazaar. No one could ever create this character and sell it on the Bazaar.
So it seems a little unbalanced imo. Huge cash influx for CCP thought so I doubt they care but I'd like to see a limit on the amount of skill points injected.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Industry guy, third-party developer, jack-of-all-trades - master of none
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
629
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:33:32 -
[467] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice.
That alone makes the CB much better (or less bad) than SP trading. Now it's pushed into everybodys face, which in and of itself creates some kind of pressure to buy some SP already.
Also - you could never buy anything on the CB that was impossible to achieve without normal skill training. So, you could not buy a maxed out character. Now you can. True, it's much more expensive than the CB, but the simple fact that this character exists is proof that balancing something through the price does not work. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2610
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:36:34 -
[468] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Avvy wrote:Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. That alone makes the CB much better (or less bad) than SP trading. Now it's pushed into everybodys face, which in and of itself creates some kind of pressure to buy some SP already. Also - you could never buy anything on the CB that was impossible to achieve without normal skill training. So, you could not buy a maxed out character. Now you can. True, it's much more expensive than the CB, but the simple fact that this character exists is proof that balancing something through the price does not work.
Except there are no real value in a maxxed out character except the e-fame of having one. Alts with the same capabilities are more powerful than a single character that can do it all.
Also, LOL at the supposed fact that this is more in our face than character trading was. I can't spend 20 minutes in the game without reading or hearing someone talk about buying/selling an alt for reason X, Y or Z. Everyone knew character trading was relatively common. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:39:36 -
[469] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: Everyone knew character trading was relatively common.
Not everyone, I realised much later on, after I'd see the figures.
|
pajedas
145
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:42:53 -
[470] - Quote
FLASHBACK!!!
Only need to listen for about a minute :-)
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
395
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:43:47 -
[471] - Quote
Meh, who cares? Just because someone may be willing to spend massive amounts of isk/RL cash to max a character doesn't mean a damned thing. Just because he/she has the SP doesn't mean he/she has the skill, experience and/or common sense needed to use them.
Can we now move on to the next big bittervet ***** session item please? |
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:44:14 -
[472] - Quote
Don't see why people are upset. In the end this changes nothing whatsoever. In fact it was expected that a handful of players would do what this guy did.
And lets be honest, when you people are flying out there, does the majority truly give a crap about what skills your opponents have maxed out?
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!"
A typical 1vs1 scenario "Nope, he's maxed out all his skills, I am so ******* out of here!"
Yeah right, as if.
In the end if everyone were to end up with all maxed out skills I honestly doubt that things would change all that much. Now it would be an entirely different story if titans suddenly dropped in price to 100 isk.... |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:57:49 -
[473] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
And lets be honest, when you people are flying out there, does the majority truly give a crap about what skills your opponents have maxed out?
I wouldn't know what anyone has got, as I don't use 3rd party programs. don't even use Evemon. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 17:58:28 -
[474] - Quote
pajedas wrote: How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
I never said that we should only view ourselves. I said we should focus our play on ourselves. There is a world of difference in those two positions. I don't play for the community good, I play for my own entertainment. If I choose to wedge my play value against someone else's actions, perceptions or even their play value, then I deserve what I get when those conditions change.
So far, none of what CCP has done affects my play value, my ego, or anything else I do. I couldn't afford to play in the SP trading game if I tried, so it's like an asteroid impact on Pluto... sure it happens, but man it has NO impact on me.
As far as I can ferret out, it should only have good impact on the game, even with these 'maxxed out' toons. I can get wiped by a 1 week old player in a destroyer, so I have to watch everyone. If IronBank comes and wipes me out, where's his bragging rights? He's accomplished nothing and is EXPECTED to wipe me out. However, if I take him out, then WHOA everyone else is utterly shocked. So, I have nothing to lose, he has everything to lose. |
Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
173
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:09:52 -
[475] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!"....
On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod...
and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it.
and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do...
does not matter now as its all available... right now.
that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
3289
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:15:39 -
[476] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:pajedas wrote: How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
I never said that we should only view ourselves. I said we should focus our play on ourselves. There is a world of difference in those two positions. I don't play for the community good, I play for my own entertainment. If I choose to wedge my play value against someone else's actions, perceptions or even their play value, then I deserve what I get when those conditions change. So far, none of what CCP has done affects my play value, my ego, or anything else I do. I couldn't afford to play in the SP trading game if I tried, so it's like an asteroid impact on Pluto... sure it happens, but man it has NO impact on me. As far as I can ferret out, it should only have good impact on the game, even with these 'maxxed out' toons. I can get wiped by a 1 week old player in a destroyer, so I have to watch everyone. If IronBank comes and wipes me out, where's his bragging rights? He's accomplished nothing and is EXPECTED to wipe me out. However, if I take him out, then WHOA everyone else is utterly shocked. So, I have nothing to lose, he has everything to lose.
Of course, that one week old character with a shed load of bought skills is actually an experienced pvp pilot who bought and paid for his new character and skill set with cash just for the fun of it.
How does one tell?
This is not a signature.
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Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:15:57 -
[477] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:pajedas wrote: How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
As far as I can ferret out, it should only have good impact on the game, even with these 'maxxed out' toons. I can get wiped by a 1 week old player in a destroyer, so I have to watch everyone. If IronBank comes and wipes me out, where's his bragging rights? He's accomplished nothing and is EXPECTED to wipe me out. However, if I take him out, then WHOA everyone else is utterly shocked. So, I have nothing to lose, he has everything to lose.
Well, frankly this would only be true if IronBank were to utilize all of his skills that his character possesses in combat...besides that, odds are that IronBank has already had all his important combat skills maxed out for years already. It was a rather old char to begin with, right? Correct me if I am wrong here :p
Come to think of it, the salty tears whining becomes that much more amusing considering that an overwhelming majority of the more experienced players insist that having alts is the best way to play the game cause of...you know, multitasking which increases efficiency and all that stuff.
The only real reason for why people are whining is the fact that IronBank managed to produce a huge e-peen in notime and slap everyone in the face with it - hard.
By the way....who expects that even 5% of the EVE population will do what IronBank did? |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:17:47 -
[478] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
I don't really see it that way, but then I've sent loads of sp to Doomheim over the years.
Even if I had all the skills trained it wouldn't matter, as I said somewhere else, it's a sandbox the important part is using those skills. |
Big Lynx
4854
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:18:19 -
[479] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility. Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man |
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:23:30 -
[480] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
To be honest, I could care less what others do. I have no real intention of using skill injectors on such a grand scale or if at all. It wont affect my gameplay whatsoever. And I am not so petty as to think about what other suddenly can or cannot do where the means doesn't change the end result. |
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13668
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:32:40 -
[481] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote: Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man
They'll learn eventually (in game and out). They won't like it, but they'll learn.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9892
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:35:12 -
[482] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility. To be honest, I could care less what others do. I have no real intention of using skill injectors on such a grand scale or if at all. It wont affect my gameplay whatsoever. And I am not so petty as to think about what other suddenly can or cannot do where the means doesn't change the end result. Couldn't. Couldn't care less. If you have no interest, then you couldn't - not could - care less.
I was watching one of the GOP debates the other day and even these supposed well read and educated bastions of conservatism were saying it wrong.
What has happened to the first world that so many people get so many common phrases so wrong?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:38:04 -
[483] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Big Lynx wrote: Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man
They'll learn eventually (in game and out). They won't like it, but they'll learn.
That sounds more like a threat. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13668
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:41:26 -
[484] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Big Lynx wrote: Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man
They'll learn eventually (in game and out). They won't like it, but they'll learn. That sounds more like a threat.
It's a prediction that all of these people that don't understand why patience is a virtue (and seeking instant gratification leads to bad outcomes) will understand when they are older, because life (not me) will teach them. That's real life, and that's what I taught my children.
EVE is a lot like that too.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:47:43 -
[485] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Big Lynx wrote: Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man
They'll learn eventually (in game and out). They won't like it, but they'll learn. That sounds more like a threat. It's a prediction that all of these people that don't understand why patience is a virtue (and seeking instant gratification leads to bad outcomes) will understand when they are older, because life (not me) will teach them. That's real life, and that's what I taught my children. EVE is a lot like that too.
I doubt life will teach me anything new.
But at the end of the day it's CCP that makes the decisions. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2610
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:48:54 -
[486] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
Are you implying people could not buy a character with maxed out armor skill to get around the time investment needed? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13668
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:52:25 -
[487] - Quote
Avvy wrote:
I doubt life will teach me anything new.
This is the least surprising statement I've ever read on this forum. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3291
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 18:58:21 -
[488] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Big Lynx wrote: Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man
They'll learn eventually (in game and out). They won't like it, but they'll learn. That sounds more like a threat.
If it sounds like a threat to you, then the simple solution is for you to drink less Guinness - or whatever it is.
This is not a signature.
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:02:47 -
[489] - Quote
Can I have your beer?
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9895
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:11:07 -
[490] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Can I have your beer?
--Gadget Guinness is not beer. It's the breakfast of champions.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2561
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:14:27 -
[491] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:What do you base that hypothetical on? Young players are tantrum kiddies and ... Lack of maturity, regardless of ages coupled with demands for immediate self gratification of the support of those designs.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2958
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:15:42 -
[492] - Quote
I can hear some CCP accountant or marketer masturbating in the corner.
I'd love to give a congratulatory handshake to this guy, but I'm assuming he's already sold both arms, likely to previous mentioned dev. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1930
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:29:07 -
[493] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: ...works fine, ... I mean the display, I see only empty graphs, regardless of character. As stated, that's likely because for some reason your API key provided to eveboard isn't working.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7279
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 19:39:31 -
[494] - Quote
Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling.
On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft.
If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer?
But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket.
Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side?
Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either)
Consider it a good thing.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:19:02 -
[495] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Of course, that one week old character with a shed load of bought skills is actually an experienced pvp pilot who bought and paid for his new character and skill set with cash just for the fun of it.
How does one tell?
You can't, but it doesn't matter. Anyone can get into a destroyer at one week, experienced PvP'er or not, and clobber me. They don't need to buy injectors to do it... which was my point. |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
67
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:20:22 -
[496] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:What do you base that hypothetical on? Young players are tantrum kiddies and ... Lack of maturity, regardless of ages coupled with demands for immediate self gratification of the support of those designs.
Damn kids, and their sagging pants and their hip-hop and grinding, get off my lawn! *shakes walker* |
Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
179
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:59:39 -
[497] - Quote
circumventing the skill barrier was done in the back room and was easily dismissed as sanctioned cheating much the way concord was bribed to wardec... ccp gets its bribes every time a character is transfered.
Now its in your face and its the new meta. skill goo everything relevant to 5 in your face right now because that is so much more epic then facing the immutable unwavering barrier that is time itself.
oh and bribe CCP with aurum now instead of plex to do it of course because blah blah blah, money, reasons, gameplay, noobs...for the children... fu#!ers.
oh wait...
totally not epic at all anymore on any level especially level 5
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 20:59:54 -
[498] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:What do you base that hypothetical on? Young players are tantrum kiddies and ... Lack of maturity, regardless of ages coupled with demands for immediate self gratification of the support of those designs. Damn kids, and their sagging pants and their hip-hop and grinding, get off my lawn! *shakes walker*
Was going to say, when did Eve turn into Seizure World? You guys really are starting to sound like old farts.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
635
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:01:38 -
[499] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft.
If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer?
I'd probably opt to not cross an ocean, but if I really had to and could afford it, I'd pick the boat. Well - a ship, just because a "boat" implies that it's not actually capable of crossing an ocean. Through being able to cross an ocean in just a couple of hours people have come to expect you to. Everything needs to be fast, everyone needs to be mobile and available anywhere anytime. It's rather stressful.
I'm not saying that jet planes and mobile phones don't have their merits, but with them comes a lot of bullshit I have to deal with now every day.
If it was still socially acceptable (and possible) to not have a phone, travel by carriage or ship and send letters via horseback courier, I'd certainly prefer that. I don't need everything right now. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4712
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:04:36 -
[500] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft.
If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? I'd probably opt to not cross an ocean, but if I really had to and could afford it, I'd pick the boat. Well - a ship, just because a "boat" implies that it's not actually capable of crossing an ocean. Through being able to cross an ocean in just a couple of hours people have come to expect you to. Everything needs to be fast, everyone needs to be mobile and available anywhere anytime. It's rather stressful. I'm not saying that jet planes and mobile phones don't have their merits, but with them comes a lot of bullshit I have to deal with now every day. If it was still socially acceptable (and possible) to not have a phone, travel by carriage or ship and send letters via horseback courier, I'd certainly prefer that. I don't need everything right now.
Too bad you died of cholera.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:09:52 -
[501] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing.
Carrying the analogy forward...
While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be.
In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:12:35 -
[502] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget
Right nobody uses giant slow moving container ships ever.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
637
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:15:02 -
[503] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Too bad you died of cholera.
I can live with that.
No - wait ... I can't. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:15:41 -
[504] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget
You don't have to play with people who expect things from you which you don't want to do. If people start expecting you to boost your SP every time a doctrine change, you can play with other players. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:16:09 -
[505] - Quote
If I were to send a contract via ship to Europe for signature and have it returned, this would take weeks.
With a plane, it takes days,
With e-mail and PDFs... I did it over coffee.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:17:41 -
[506] - Quote
The notion that people MUST use skill injectors to get a maxed out character is just dumb.
I for one will not spend $30,000 doing that. Not unless I get a substantial boost to my income like an order of magnitude boost...and even then...still probably wouldn't. I'd probably rather spend it doing a Pat O'Brien.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:17:54 -
[507] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget You don't have to play with people who expect things from you which you don't want to do. If people start expecting you to boost your SP every time a doctrine change, you can play with other players.
Other "bad" players?
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:19:47 -
[508] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:If I were to send a contract via ship to Europe for signature and have it returned, this would take weeks. With a plane, it takes days, With e-mail and PDFs... I did it over coffee. --Gadget
Wow, right over your head.
Yes, the point is that to be competitive speed is not everything.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
179
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:20:05 -
[509] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft.
Almost no one wants to emulate in a video game a commercial pilot (RIP FS) who's goal is to never have their name known by anyone (an anonymous accident free career) rather most would want to pretend to be Richard Bong or Erich Hartmann or one of the other Ace of Aces of WW2 in epic air battles that will never be seen again.
To be Lindberg and be the first to cross the ocean by air or fight in historic WW2 aircraft with nothing but guns and propellers not because it is easy but because it is hard and because it was epic and today unattainable much like space flight and combat is unattainable today it is also attractive.
There was a speech by some politician that got shot about things that are chosen to be done because they are hard that is totally irrelevant and does not at all apply to EVE since it is a space game and he was not referring to anything remotely in the same spirit as this.
Not to say anything about EVE SP is hard beyond the wait... which is no longer a barrier. But it felt like a long term goal. stepping stones to the moon you could say.
Of course its just a grey dust covered rock your standing on but it took you 10 years of planning to get there and the dedication of that effort used to be epic. at least I certainly thought it was until now. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:22:12 -
[510] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget
With attributes and attribute implants removed and the training speed increase to at least compensate. That should help new players especially those that can't afford sp injectors.
If there is an sp-injected character expectation then that is the players that are enforcing such a thing.
CCP can give the tools to do things but if the players want to enforce restrictions then the players can't blame CCP.
If you're excluded from a corp. because of sp then find another one, chances are you might not like it there anyway (at least if it was me).
|
|
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:22:29 -
[511] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility. To be honest, I could care less what others do. I have no real intention of using skill injectors on such a grand scale or if at all. It wont affect my gameplay whatsoever. And I am not so petty as to think about what other suddenly can or cannot do where the means doesn't change the end result. Couldn't. Couldn't care less. If you have no interest, then you couldn't - not could - care less. I was watching one of the GOP debates the other day and even these supposed well read and educated bastions of conservatism were saying it wrong. What has happened to the first world that so many people get so many common phrases so wrong? Mr Epeen
Ah yes, that is true haha. Should be "Could". Oh well, am in bed with a rather nasty fever so yeah...hot-headed on multiple levels today.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:25:22 -
[512] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote: Of course its just a grey dust covered rock your standing on but it took you 10 years of planning to get there and the dedication of that effort used to be epic. at least I certainly thought it was until now.
Epic? Wut? All you had to do was wait. That's it. Well okay, log in and inject the periodic skill book and keep skills going.
I am not a supporter of trading SP (although maybe time will prove me wrong), but sheesh talk about some powerful rose tinted glasses there regarding skill training.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:29:42 -
[513] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:If I were to send a contract via ship to Europe for signature and have it returned, this would take weeks. With a plane, it takes days, With e-mail and PDFs... I did it over coffee. --Gadget Wow, right over your head. Yes, the point is that to be competitive speed is not everything.
I know, dear. Use the right tool for the job and all that.
If all I wanted to do was fly T1 tackle, then sure SP-container ship away.
However, I'm an industrialist. SP does make a difference. Yes, making alts may get more bang for your buck, but combining them with the SP injections just made an instant Industrial Army... which I already have the experience to run. It scales well.
My competition will also have this ability.
If I choose not to do this, but my competitor does, then I'm going to lose to those that can make stuff and gather the resources cheaper because they SP buffed.
Maybe I can be happy with a little house on some desolate prairie eking out a living, but that's not what drew me to EvE. And now, I have to make a hard decision... keep up with the competition, don't and be less than what I could be but still have my "higher ground", or give it up altogether.
--Gadget says no to option C
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:30:04 -
[514] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget You don't have to play with people who expect things from you which you don't want to do. If people start expecting you to boost your SP every time a doctrine change, you can play with other players. Other "bad" players? --Gadget
Not dumping money on the game to catch up to an arbitrary SP level is being bad now?
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
637
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:32:16 -
[515] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:The notion that people MUST use skill injectors to get a maxed out character is just dumb. I for one will not spend $30,000 doing that. Not unless I get a substantial boost to my income like an order of magnitude boost...and even then...still probably wouldn't. I'd probably rather spend it doing a Pat O'Brien.
Of course it's dumb. But I've already read articles on how SP trading is great for alliance leaders, because they can now insist that people train doctrine ships. Which implies that they can be expected to purchase SP injectors every time a new meta comes along.
Now, of course I do have the option to not go along with this bullshit (and I won't), should it ever come to this. I also have the option to not play this game. It's not so much about how this is goint to affect me directly. But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. The ones who are fine with dumping money into the game might be more compelled to stay than those who don't if they get Gold Ammo plastered on their faces from day one. (I know it's not Gold Ammo, but to someone who doesn't know jack about the game it sure does look like it.)
Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:32:56 -
[516] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:If I were to send a contract via ship to Europe for signature and have it returned, this would take weeks. With a plane, it takes days, With e-mail and PDFs... I did it over coffee. --Gadget Wow, right over your head. Yes, the point is that to be competitive speed is not everything. I know, dear. Use the right tool for the job and all that. If all I wanted to do was fly T1 tackle, then sure SP-container ship away. However, I'm an industrialist. SP does make a difference. Yes, making alts may get more bang for your buck, but combining them with the SP injections just made an instant Industrial Army... which I already have the experience to run. It scales well. My competition will also have this ability. If I choose not to do this, but my competitor does, then I'm going to lose to those that can make stuff and gather the resources cheaper because they SP buffed. Maybe I can be happy with a little house on some desolate prairie eking out a living, but that's not what drew me to EvE. And now, I have to make a hard decision... keep up with the competition, don't and be less than what I could be but still have my "higher ground", or give it up altogether. --Gadget says no to option C
And buying industrial characters off the bazaar was not possible?
And you need to seriously rethink that "gather stuff cheaper" argument. If you spend the equivalent of $500 worth of ISK to get those players up to the point where they are beating your competition...you did not save anything.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:33:09 -
[517] - Quote
LOL... I really dont care.
This doesnt effect anything. My SP is the same as it was yesterday.
This max character guy will never undock.
This has zero relevence to actually playing the game.
If people are flying their PVP boats without already having trained to atleast to Lvl 4 for that ship / support skils then they are dumb.
After lvl 4 for majority of ships it all comes down to player skill
The meta game comes down to player skill. Being a market guy comes down to player skill. Even PVE largely comes down to player skill once you train for the optimal ship.
SP doesnt matter... its just Epeen.. like having a better cpu, bigger/ multple monitors etc.. Actually ... its likely that having multiple moniters provides more benefit in Eve than maxing your SP !.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:35:11 -
[518] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:If I were to send a contract via ship to Europe for signature and have it returned, this would take weeks. With a plane, it takes days, With e-mail and PDFs... I did it over coffee. --Gadget Wow, right over your head. Yes, the point is that to be competitive speed is not everything. I know, dear. Use the right tool for the job and all that. If all I wanted to do was fly T1 tackle, then sure SP-container ship away. However, I'm an industrialist. SP does make a difference. Yes, making alts may get more bang for your buck, but combining them with the SP injections just made an instant Industrial Army... which I already have the experience to run. It scales well. My competition will also have this ability. If I choose not to do this, but my competitor does, then I'm going to lose to those that can make stuff and gather the resources cheaper because they SP buffed. Maybe I can be happy with a little house on some desolate prairie eking out a living, but that's not what drew me to EvE. And now, I have to make a hard decision... keep up with the competition, don't and be less than what I could be but still have my "higher ground", or give it up altogether. --Gadget says no to option C
Oh noes, someone interested in investing more time, effort and money into the sandbox might end up with better results than me.
News flash, you can buy industry character off the bazaar if boosting SP is not your cup of tea and could even do it before SP trading which mean people could already out-produce you if they wanted to burn money on it. The few things that changed is the bottleneck is split in 2 (trained character OR SP injector on market now) and you get to choose your character name if you SP boost instead of buying a pre-made. |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:36:30 -
[519] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:......... But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. .
Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this.
LOL... if Mittani actually tried this it would be the death of the goons.
wait... yes .....actually he should make you all buy injectors. encourage him !
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1794
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:37:04 -
[520] - Quote
So finally an actual argument has been cobbled together in opposition to sp injectors beyond waxing poetical about how good waiting years to be able to do particular things is awesome.
Of course this argument is unrealistic and absurd, suggesting that players will feel comp[elled by others to spend the thousands of dollars they dont have spare or the dozens of billions of isk they dont have to compete.
Now you have reached this bizarre conclusion as the only supposed consiquence of sp injectors, can the people worried about them calm down and reflect how they are a non issue in real terms.
Thanks. |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:37:47 -
[521] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:The notion that people MUST use skill injectors to get a maxed out character is just dumb. I for one will not spend $30,000 doing that. Not unless I get a substantial boost to my income like an order of magnitude boost...and even then...still probably wouldn't. I'd probably rather spend it doing a Pat O'Brien. Of course it's dumb. But I've already read articles on how SP trading is great for alliance leaders, because they can now insist that people train doctrine ships. Which implies that they can be expected to purchase SP injectors every time a new meta comes along. Now, of course I do have the option to not go along with this bullshit (and I won't), should it ever come to this. I also have the option to not play this game. It's not so much about how this is goint to affect me directly. But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. The ones who are fine with dumping money into the game might be more compelled to stay than those who don't if they get Gold Ammo plastered on their faces from day one. (I know it's not Gold Ammo, but to someone who doesn't know jack about the game it sure does look like it.) Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this.
The insistence to train doctrine ships has always been there in the serious alliances. At least it was with EXE. Back in the day it was "do not fly a BS if you did not have T2 guns". The reason put forward were manifold, but I'll list 2 points.
1. If you fly a ship other than the doctrine the FC cannot do what he wants because of varying ranges/DPS. Kitchen sink fleets are always beaten by doctrine fleets (assuming similar size).
2. The alliance and its leadership have worked, with the help of line members, to have space to use and one of the requirements is to actively work towards training doctrine ships.
The idea, that this demand will suddenly appear is misleading, IMO, in that it has already been there.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:39:31 -
[522] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:So finally an actual argument has been cobbled together in opposition to sp injectors beyond waxing poetical about how good waiting years to be able to do particular things is awesome.
Of course this argument is unrealistic and absurd, suggesting that players will feel comp[elled by others to spend the thousands of dollars they dont have spare or the dozens of billions of isk they dont have to compete.
Now you have reached this bizarre conclusion as the only supposed consiquence of sp injectors, can the people worried about them calm down and reflect how they are a non issue in real terms.
Thanks.
No, it Bravo Sierra because such demands have always existed in many alliances. When I first joined EXE I was flying support ships for a loooong time while I waited for my first set of large T2 guns to be trained. Then and only then did I fly BS in stratop fleets.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:42:34 -
[523] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: And buying industrial characters off the bazaar was not possible?
And you need to seriously rethink that "gather stuff cheaper" argument. If you spend the equivalent of $500 worth of ISK to get those players up to the point where they are beating your competition...you did not save anything.
I think I've already stated my views on character purchasing.
And it'll take me months, if not years, for my network to catch up to the competitor that uses doped alts. That's a lot of time for said competitor to make back that initial investment ... and then some.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2564
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:43:56 -
[524] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: ...works fine, ... I mean the display, I see only empty graphs, regardless of character. As stated, that's likely because for some reason your API key provided to eveboard isn't working. regardless of character
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:44:53 -
[525] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Not dumping money on the game to catch up to an arbitrary SP level is being bad now?
Not now, but it might be in the future.
--Gadgetodamaus
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
637
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:45:25 -
[526] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Neuntausend wrote:......... But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. .
Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this. LOL... if Mittani actually tried this it would be the death of the goons. wait... yes actually he should make you all buy injectors. encourage him !
That's not how social expectations work. People typically won't straight up tell you to behave a certain way, even if they expect you to. But if you don't they'll just not bother with you. I'm not so much afraid of alliance leaders saying "you have to buy injectors" all of a sudden - nobody in their right mind would do that. It's more the common consensus that it's "normal" to buy Injectors that may take hold in the community. Once that has happened, it doesn't matter if anyone actually demands the use of Injectors once a new doctrine pops up. People will just do it, and those who don't will get left behind.
Admittedly, that's a bit of a horror scenario I am painting here, but it's certainly not impossible. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1794
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:48:15 -
[527] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:So finally an actual argument has been cobbled together in opposition to sp injectors beyond waxing poetical about how good waiting years to be able to do particular things is awesome.
Of course this argument is unrealistic and absurd, suggesting that players will feel comp[elled by others to spend the thousands of dollars they dont have spare or the dozens of billions of isk they dont have to compete.
Now you have reached this bizarre conclusion as the only supposed consiquence of sp injectors, can the people worried about them calm down and reflect how they are a non issue in real terms.
Thanks. No, it Bravo Sierra because such demands have always existed in many alliances. When I first joined EXE I was flying support ships for a loooong time while I waited for my first set of large T2 guns to be trained. Then and only then did I fly BS in stratop fleets.
I seriously doubt that anyone was told to buy SP injector for real life cash or in game isk before SP injectors existed. I understand your point, but it is not a counter point to mine. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2613
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:50:48 -
[528] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:helana Tsero wrote:Neuntausend wrote:......... But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. .
Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this. LOL... if Mittani actually tried this it would be the death of the goons. wait... yes actually he should make you all buy injectors. encourage him ! That's not how social expectations work. People typically won't straight up tell you to behave a certain way, even if they expect you to. But if you don't they'll just not bother with you. I'm not so much afraid of alliance leaders saying "you have to buy injectors" all of a sudden - nobody in their right mind would do that. It's more the common consensus that it's "normal" to buy Injectors that may take hold in the community. Once that has happened, it doesn't matter if anyone actually demands the use of Injectors once a new doctrine pops up. People will just do it, and those who don't will get left behind. Admittedly, that's a bit of a horror scenario I am painting here, but it's certainly not impossible.
Or they'll fly ship inside the doctrine that they have already trained for. If running the potential SP treadmill does not interest you, skill for support ship. They will always be needed anyway. No matter where the DPS in a fleet comes from, logistic cruisers will pretty much always be present. Recons are a semi-safe bet coupled with T3 with their E-WAR configuration to replace recon when the tanking doctrine is not compatible. Once you have that, you are pretty much set and can slow grind the SP for anything without really being left out. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1794
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:51:54 -
[529] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And buying industrial characters off the bazaar was not possible?
And you need to seriously rethink that "gather stuff cheaper" argument. If you spend the equivalent of $500 worth of ISK to get those players up to the point where they are beating your competition...you did not save anything.
I think I've already stated my views on character purchasing. And it'll take me months, if not years, for my network to catch up to the competitor that uses doped alts. That's a lot of time for said competitor to make back that initial investment ... and then some. --Gadget
Sorry, i missed this argument. Im sure in some universe a role-played argument carries some weight even though it is irreverent in terms of playing EVE game outside of role-play.
For now, you should stop posting, while cute, it doesnt present anything useful to the debate. Actually, there doesnt seem to be any realistic and useful arguments against SP injectors, so carry on if you must. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
136
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 21:58:08 -
[530] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And buying industrial characters off the bazaar was not possible?
And you need to seriously rethink that "gather stuff cheaper" argument. If you spend the equivalent of $500 worth of ISK to get those players up to the point where they are beating your competition...you did not save anything.
I think I've already stated my views on character purchasing. And it'll take me months, if not years, for my network to catch up to the competitor that uses doped alts. That's a lot of time for said competitor to make back that initial investment ... and then some. --Gadget Sorry, i missed this argument. Im sure in some universe a role-played argument carries some weight even though it is irreverent in terms of playing EVE game outside of role-play. For now, you should stop posting, while cute, it doesnt present anything useful to the debate. Actually, there doesnt seem to be any realistic and useful arguments against SP injectors, so carry on if you must.
Dearie,
Analogy, speculation, and prediction are very useful tools when handled correctly.
I'm sure you can find a teacher if you desired.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
|
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1794
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:03:49 -
[531] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote: Dearie,
Analogy, speculation, and prediction are very useful tools when handled correctly.
I'm sure you can find a teacher if you desired.
--Gadget
Im not the one misusing those things to create absurd arguments about redundancy and levels of competition among roles, in game. People have already maxed out every single aspect of this game and that has been the case for many years.
If you feel that you are falling behind, there is now an option for you to catch up. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:06:26 -
[532] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: And buying industrial characters off the bazaar was not possible?
And you need to seriously rethink that "gather stuff cheaper" argument. If you spend the equivalent of $500 worth of ISK to get those players up to the point where they are beating your competition...you did not save anything.
I think I've already stated my views on character purchasing. And it'll take me months, if not years, for my network to catch up to the competitor that uses doped alts. That's a lot of time for said competitor to make back that initial investment ... and then some. --Gadget
So, all that a guy who buys SP is moving his training forwards for a PRICE. He is spending something, ISK or RL money. Whatever value he gets due to having high SP now which allows him to earn more ISK now is offset at least in part, if not entirely, by what he spent.
And yeah, I love the "he'll have months or years to recover his initial investment..." I thought none of these instant gratification players were going to hang around long.
Further, industrial stuff has a substantial fixed cost. Either you train for a long time then do it. Or you buy SP and start right away. You don't start training then start doing industrial stuff because you'll suck and the market prices are already set by people who have very good if not perfect skills already. You can make decent profits with datacore skills trained to 4, 5 is better. But 4 allows for okay invention profits.
So this notion that you can't do it the old fashioned way is just Bravo Sierra, players who skilled up along time ago have already captured most of the rents.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1931
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:07:32 -
[533] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:regardless of character That's what I get for assuming it hadn't changed over the last week. Apparently it has. Intentional reduction in function or just broken I do not know.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
2564
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:08:19 -
[534] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Consider it a good thing. Sailing is a greater adventure.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Now that everything can be bought for $, EVE has no goals - empty shell.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:22:16 -
[535] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Neuntausend wrote:helana Tsero wrote:Neuntausend wrote:......... But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. .
Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this. LOL... if Mittani actually tried this it would be the death of the goons. wait... yes actually he should make you all buy injectors. encourage him ! That's not how social expectations work. People typically won't straight up tell you to behave a certain way, even if they expect you to. But if you don't they'll just not bother with you. I'm not so much afraid of alliance leaders saying "you have to buy injectors" all of a sudden - nobody in their right mind would do that. It's more the common consensus that it's "normal" to buy Injectors that may take hold in the community. Once that has happened, it doesn't matter if anyone actually demands the use of Injectors once a new doctrine pops up. People will just do it, and those who don't will get left behind. Admittedly, that's a bit of a horror scenario I am painting here, but it's certainly not impossible. Or they'll fly ship inside the doctrine that they have already trained for. If running the potential SP treadmill does not interest you, skill for support ship. They will always be needed anyway. No matter where the DPS in a fleet comes from, logistic cruisers will pretty much always be present. Recons are a semi-safe bet coupled with T3 with their E-WAR configuration to replace recon when the tanking doctrine is not compatible. Once you have that, you are pretty much set and can slow grind the SP for anything without really being left out.
This. Alliances will likely implement 2 tracks for SP. If you want to go buy alot of SP, fine. But if you don't/can't the traditional route is always there. FCs are always begging for more logistics and even tackle. Train those and you'll be fine as you grind out the other skills for additional ships.
The argument that alliance leaders are going to become completely unreasonable assholes making outrageous demands on their players...and that they won't just leave said alliance...is bordering on...well dumb yet again.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Feledain
Elmsfeuer
73
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:30:21 -
[536] - Quote
What he did is good for the game as a whole. Many skill points have been lost, that means the remaining SP become more valuable because there are fewer in the game.
And what did he realy gain? Can he have more research or factory jobs then anybody else? Does he more damge in any ship? Can he mine more? Can he jump further? Does his ship fly faster, more cargo or anything?
That was no "investment" he bought something to brag about. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
640
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:37:10 -
[537] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:The insistence to train doctrine ships has always been there in the serious alliances. At least it was with EXE. Back in the day it was "do not fly a BS if you did not have T2 guns". The reason put forward were manifold, but I'll list 2 points.
1. If you fly a ship other than the doctrine the FC cannot do what he wants because of varying ranges/DPS. Kitchen sink fleets are always beaten by doctrine fleets (assuming similar size).
2. The alliance and its leadership have worked, with the help of line members, to have space to use and one of the requirements is to actively work towards training doctrine ships.
The idea, that this demand will suddenly appear is misleading, IMO, in that it has already been there.
Alliances have doctrines - of course. But without the possibility to just inject SP whenever, one can only change the doctrine every so often to allow the players to catch up, and typically we get a bit of a warning beforehand so we can at least train T2 guns or a certain hull in time. But a day may come where Alliances switch doctrines on a whim because players can just buy the skills they need.
Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich? |
Hani Tian
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1006
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:40:48 -
[538] - Quote
Feledain wrote:What he did is good for the game as a whole. Many skill points have been lost, that means the remaining SP become more valuable because there are fewer in the game.
And what did he realy gain? Can he have more research or factory jobs then anybody else? Does he more damge in any ship? Can he mine more? Can he jump further? Does his ship fly faster, more cargo or anything?
That was no "investment" he bought something to brag about.
Same thing I'm thinking. Who is stupid enough to spend 1.7 trillion isk on this, for what? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1931
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:45:55 -
[539] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:The insistence to train doctrine ships has always been there in the serious alliances. At least it was with EXE. Back in the day it was "do not fly a BS if you did not have T2 guns". The reason put forward were manifold, but I'll list 2 points.
1. If you fly a ship other than the doctrine the FC cannot do what he wants because of varying ranges/DPS. Kitchen sink fleets are always beaten by doctrine fleets (assuming similar size).
2. The alliance and its leadership have worked, with the help of line members, to have space to use and one of the requirements is to actively work towards training doctrine ships.
The idea, that this demand will suddenly appear is misleading, IMO, in that it has already been there.
Alliances have doctrines - of course. But without the possibility to just inject SP whenever, one can only change the doctrine every so often to allow the players to catch up, and typically we get a bit of a warning beforehand so we can at least train T2 guns or a certain hull in time. But a day may come where Alliances switch doctrines on a whim because players can just buy the skills they need. Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich? Normally we see doctrine changes because there are reasons to change doctrines not related to SP. Balance changes tend to be the biggest driver. Unless the expectation is that this will move to "because we can" reasoning, and all the disadvantages that come with frequent deviations from a working strategy, more frequent switches would seem unlikely.
|
Durgis Athonille
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:46:58 -
[540] - Quote
[/quote]Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example. Basically you pay for your subs with real cash and the option to buy game time with plex stops, but of course you can buy plex with isk to do the other stuff it allows you to do. Therefore income from actual subs should increase quite alot.[/quote]
This. If you are not paying real money to play this game then you are not contributing to the bottom line. If you want the sandbox you have to help pay for the sand. New players pay real money and they want to fly the ship they want when they want. If they want to start in a Navy Comet or whatever they can pay or the skills to do so and learn to fly the ship they want to fly. How does that negatively effect anyone? If they stay in the game for 3 months then that's 3 months subscription and the money spent to train the skills and for Plex to buy the ship, plus all the fun they'll have fitting and flying and practicing. Oh yeah, and they might like it and stay. |
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9903
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:48:52 -
[541] - Quote
Hani Tian wrote:Feledain wrote:What he did is good for the game as a whole. Many skill points have been lost, that means the remaining SP become more valuable because there are fewer in the game.
And what did he realy gain? Can he have more research or factory jobs then anybody else? Does he more damge in any ship? Can he mine more? Can he jump further? Does his ship fly faster, more cargo or anything?
That was no "investment" he bought something to brag about. Same thing I'm thinking. Who is stupid enough to spend 1.7 trillion isk on this, for what? To be first? To get people to use his gambling site? For the 30,000 views on EB? To stir up controversy?
I can think of a whole lot more, but you should have the idea.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
70
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:51:22 -
[542] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote: Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich?
I remember one day 1 on goonswarm people kept throwing huge piles of ISK at me even though all I could fly was a coercer. I was a billionaire and I never asked for a dime and even told people to stop donating me ISK.
On the upside I flew a pimpin coercer in every fleet battle i was in, because why the **** not? |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1309
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 22:55:30 -
[543] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Hani Tian wrote:Feledain wrote:What he did is good for the game as a whole. Many skill points have been lost, that means the remaining SP become more valuable because there are fewer in the game.
And what did he realy gain? Can he have more research or factory jobs then anybody else? Does he more damge in any ship? Can he mine more? Can he jump further? Does his ship fly faster, more cargo or anything?
That was no "investment" he bought something to brag about. Same thing I'm thinking. Who is stupid enough to spend 1.7 trillion isk on this, for what? To be first? To get people to use his gambling site? For the 30,000 views on EB? To stir up controversy? I can think of a whole lot more, but you should have the idea. Mr Epeen
It's like a gold plated Ferrari, isn't it ?
You don't get a gold plated Ferrari for the performance (it'd be slower, cos of the weight of gold), or as an investment (who'd buy a used one?), or any kind of practical reason.
You get a gold plated Ferrari, to show off the fact that you can afford to get a gold plated Ferrari.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
640
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:00:04 -
[544] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Neuntausend wrote: Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich?
I remember one day 1 on goonswarm people kept throwing huge piles of ISK at me even though all I could fly was a coercer. I was a billionaire and I never asked for a dime and even told people to stop donating me ISK. On the upside I flew a pimpin coercer in every fleet battle i was in, because why the **** not?
Yeah, that's just us being us. As usual, goons will be fine. We always are. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4713
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:05:10 -
[545] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:The insistence to train doctrine ships has always been there in the serious alliances. At least it was with EXE. Back in the day it was "do not fly a BS if you did not have T2 guns". The reason put forward were manifold, but I'll list 2 points.
1. If you fly a ship other than the doctrine the FC cannot do what he wants because of varying ranges/DPS. Kitchen sink fleets are always beaten by doctrine fleets (assuming similar size).
2. The alliance and its leadership have worked, with the help of line members, to have space to use and one of the requirements is to actively work towards training doctrine ships.
The idea, that this demand will suddenly appear is misleading, IMO, in that it has already been there.
Alliances have doctrines - of course. But without the possibility to just inject SP whenever, one can only change the doctrine every so often to allow the players to catch up, and typically we get a bit of a warning beforehand so we can at least train T2 guns or a certain hull in time. But a day may come where Alliances switch doctrines on a whim because players can just buy the skills they need. Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful.
That is great in theory, but like military plans, theory often does not survive when it meets reality (at least in it's initial formulation).
The problem is 1 injector is not unreasonable. However, getting into a brand new doctrine ship one has not trained for will likely cost way, way more than 1 injector or even 2 or 3. More like10 or 20 which is starting to become a pretty significant investment.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:27:53 -
[546] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading. AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character.
- He builds Marauders 1% quicker than my Indie alt and has access to 1 research agent more - also he can produce things that need astronautic engineering skills - He has higher shield resists on passive hardeners than my main and can jump in a titan, and his damage rapairs quicker with paste. Also his Cruise Missiles do higher damage and he uncloaks 1 sec faster. - He has connections with mining and distribution agents - he can modifiy buy orders at a range 5 jumps more than my Jita trader
How will I ever be able to compete against such superhero? No point in trying, best to give up and leave. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1797
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:29:11 -
[547] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Hani Tian wrote:Feledain wrote:What he did is good for the game as a whole. Many skill points have been lost, that means the remaining SP become more valuable because there are fewer in the game.
And what did he realy gain? Can he have more research or factory jobs then anybody else? Does he more damge in any ship? Can he mine more? Can he jump further? Does his ship fly faster, more cargo or anything?
That was no "investment" he bought something to brag about. Same thing I'm thinking. Who is stupid enough to spend 1.7 trillion isk on this, for what? To be first? To get people to use his gambling site? For the 30,000 views on EB? To stir up controversy? I can think of a whole lot more, but you should have the idea. Mr Epeen It's like a gold plated Ferrari, isn't it ? You don't get a gold plated Ferrari for the performance (it'd be slower, cos of the weight of gold), or as an investment (who'd buy a used one?), or any kind of practical reason. You get a gold plated Ferrari, to show off the fact that you can afford to get a gold plated Ferrari.
Its more like this.
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:32:06 -
[548] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading. AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character. - He builds Marauders 1% quicker than my Indie alt and has access to 1 research agent more - also he can produce things that need astronautic engineering skills - He has higher shield resists on passive hardeners than my main and can jump in a titan, and his damage rapairs quicker with paste. Also his Cruise Missiles do higher damage and he uncloaks 1 sec faster. - He has connections with mining and distribution agents - he can modifiy buy orders at a range 5 jumps more than my Jita trader How will I ever be able to compete against such superhero? No point in trying, best to give up and leave.
How did you compete when you were new?
Chances are he probably won't even use it for those purposes. |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:33:43 -
[549] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Pandora Bokks wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading. AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character. - He builds Marauders 1% quicker than my Indie alt and has access to 1 research agent more - also he can produce things that need astronautic engineering skills - He has higher shield resists on passive hardeners than my main and can jump in a titan, and his damage rapairs quicker with paste. Also his Cruise Missiles do higher damage and he uncloaks 1 sec faster. - He has connections with mining and distribution agents - he can modifiy buy orders at a range 5 jumps more than my Jita trader How will I ever be able to compete against such superhero? No point in trying, best to give up and leave. How did you compete when you were new? Chances are he probably won't even use it for those purposes.
Damn, forgot to put the sarcasm sign up
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1797
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:37:28 -
[550] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote: Damn, forgot to put the sarcasm sign up
Congratulations, all you have done is confirmed all these anti vax folks worst fears. |
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:39:34 -
[551] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Damn, forgot to put the sarcasm sign up
It's your portrait that threw me, you look so serious. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
113
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:55:28 -
[552] - Quote
Durgis Athonille wrote:Quote:Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example. Basically you pay for your subs with real cash and the option to buy game time with plex stops, but of course you can buy plex with isk to do the other stuff it allows you to do. Therefore income from actual subs should increase quite alot. This. If you are not paying real money to play this game then you are not contributing to the bottom line. If you want the sandbox you have to help pay for the sand. New players pay real money and they want to fly the ship they want when they want. If they want to start in a Navy Comet or whatever they can pay or the skills to do so and learn to fly the ship they want to fly. How does that negatively effect anyone? If they stay in the game for 3 months then that's 3 months subscription and the money spent to train the skills and for Plex to buy the ship, plus all the fun they'll have fitting and flying and practicing. Oh yeah, and they might like it and stay. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious...
Just in case you are serious I want to point out that every single plex on the market was bought with real money. No one is playing for free as CCP was paid hard currency for every single one of those plexes.
EVERY.... SINGLE... PLEX!!
So could we stop that stupid? |
Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2016.02.16 23:59:40 -
[553] - Quote
I read a few of the opinions to here and there and what I think about extractors\injectors is twofold, 1. It's rather great as imho you can lose bit of skillpoints (from skills you didn't used) to relocate them to skills you actually want. It's perfect for everyone which tried mining and got burned.
2. OTOH it allows people which have too many skills and train too much an opportunity to extract extra points to use on their alts or give friends some boost. wouldn't it be great for a friend starting eve get one of those skipping the first 3 days of training the pure basics and jump into the action?
________________________________________
About having all possible skills, what's the point? who's going to actually do everything with single character? |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
33
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 00:02:39 -
[554] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Just in case you are serious I want to point out that every single plex on the market was bought with real money. No one is playing for free as CCP was paid hard currency for every single one of those plexes.
EVERY.... SINGLE... PLEX!!
Hmmm, not quite but you're probably pretty close. CCP does 'give out' PLEX from time to time, and players can earn it with the Hours for PLEX program (if it's still going), so not all was earned with cash. Some with work, some as reward or marketing giveaways, etc.
I'm not debating your point of the vast majority of the PLEX out there, just cautioning that being 100% accurate before tossing out invective is a wise thing. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1798
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 00:06:34 -
[555] - Quote
If CCP ships drop plex, thats like them giving a month of subscription away for free, and if you look at the volume of plexes on the market they probably represent a microscopic proportion. Event microscopic is probably an exaggeration.
The hours for plex does still exist and has nothing to do with earning plex. It is simply 4 hours to get your ass to jita and buy a plex rather than subscribing with your bank deets. |
Durgis Athonille
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 00:17:27 -
[556] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Durgis Athonille wrote:Quote:Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example. Basically you pay for your subs with real cash and the option to buy game time with plex stops, but of course you can buy plex with isk to do the other stuff it allows you to do. Therefore income from actual subs should increase quite alot. This. If you are not paying real money to play this game then you are not contributing to the bottom line. If you want the sandbox you have to help pay for the sand. New players pay real money and they want to fly the ship they want when they want. If they want to start in a Navy Comet or whatever they can pay or the skills to do so and learn to fly the ship they want to fly. How does that negatively effect anyone? If they stay in the game for 3 months then that's 3 months subscription and the money spent to train the skills and for Plex to buy the ship, plus all the fun they'll have fitting and flying and practicing. Oh yeah, and they might like it and stay. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious... Just in case you are serious I want to point out that every single plex on the market was bought with real money. No one is playing for free as CCP was paid hard currency for every single one of those plexes. EVERY.... SINGLE... PLEX!! So could we stop that stupid?
Since there are plenty of things that PLEX can be used to buy in the game I think it's a good idea. Sorry you don't agree. There really is no substitute for real money in RL, which is incidentally where game companies reside. I simply don't think that since you're a really good bus passenger that you should ride the bus for free. Sorry to derail the thread. Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2385
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 00:17:40 -
[557] - Quote
status is an important consideration in all MMOs. In EvE moreso than most. do people compete in tournament for fun only or to win. being able to pay to beat others in the skillpoint game is obviously going to devalue the game in many peoples minds, irrespective of whether it directly affects ability to do something else such as pvp. whether the change equates to more new subs vs sub attrition is still to be seen.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44529
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 00:17:42 -
[558] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:...and players can earn it with the Hours for PLEX program (if it's still going), so not all was earned with cash. What?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9905
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 01:33:07 -
[559] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote: CCP does 'give out' PLEX from time to time, I can assure you that they confiscate more than they give out. They've explained this in the past.
I'd link some posts from various devs on the topic, but I just don't care about the issue enough. You are welcome to use their crappy search function (Now, that's a legitimate complaint) to find them yourself if you are so inclined.
The long and short of it is that they are not creating anything that wasn't already in the game.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
IronBank
Moosearmy I N F A M O U S
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:06:54 -
[560] - Quote
Read all 28 Pages and I must say - the salt and tears in here are phenomenal. |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9908
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 05:15:02 -
[561] - Quote
IronBank wrote:Read all 28 Pages and I must say - the salt and tears in here are phenomenal.
LOL!
Just in time to stir up the **** as things were starting to slow down.
Well done sir. Well done, indeed. You just guaranteed another 20 pages with that one post.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2250
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 06:42:20 -
[562] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:status is an important consideration in all MMOs. In EvE moreso than most. So you already lost EVE then?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2497
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:08:42 -
[563] - Quote
IronBank wrote:Read all 28 Pages and I must say - the salt and tears in here are phenomenal.
remember you owe me money though
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2387
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:32:16 -
[564] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:status is an important consideration in all MMOs. In EvE moreso than most. So you already lost EVE then? You know you've won EvE when players wish you dead in RL. So I guess I won. Also got my name in an EvE Wiki. And single handedly caused a rewrite of part of the code. Devs have also taken up my design ideas (capital projection, no refitting in combat, docking rights in null, mobile depots...)
CCP should be paying me
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
2602
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:48:30 -
[565] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:status is an important consideration in all MMOs.
So all the tears about the SP injectors is only because you Shitazillion Skillpoints holders can't stroke your E-wiener anymore because some Noob bought his SP's on the market. Oh, you poor little yous'
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2252
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 08:55:29 -
[566] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:status is an important consideration in all MMOs. In EvE moreso than most. So you already lost EVE then? You know you've won EvE when players wish you dead in RL. So I guess I won. Also got my name in an EvE Wiki. Well, that is totally not cool and you should immediately report them so CCP can send interpol or whatever after them.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Mithandra
Catastrophic Operations Get Off My Lawn
474
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 09:18:58 -
[567] - Quote
Interesting.
Doesn't affect MY gameplay so I actually have no opinion to share.
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 16:20:23 -
[568] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I can assure you that they confiscate more than they give out. They've explained this in the past. I'd link some posts from various devs on the topic, but I just don't care about the issue enough. You are welcome to use their crappy search function (Now, that's a legitimate complaint) to find them yourself if you are so inclined. The long and short of it is that they are not creating anything that wasn't already in the game. Mr Epeen
I appreciate your assurances and did as you asked and searched for some rules or comments by DEV's on confiscating PLEX. Yup, the search function is typical Forum Board poor, but perhaps due to that, wasn't finding any comments by DEV's on the topic, quite a few by players and claiming various things.
Since PLEX is equivalent to real money in some fashion, CCP would only do this if the player did something against the games' rules that CCP could absolutely prove. That PLEX is forfeit, regardless of how it entered the game and doesn't bear on the initial assumption of all of it coming in through purchased sources.
I'm not saying that you aren't right about them doing it from time to time, but I don't see the proof that your assurance is beyond questioning. CCP gives out PLEX almost daily and even fairly regular in high end loot if those rumors are real. So it's kind of one perspective against another, neither one being proof capable as to rate of injection/removal.
None of this changes the fact that not all PLEX in game is source purchased. Nor does it merit the use of invective against another person. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5352
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 16:26:24 -
[569] - Quote
Quote:Since PLEX is equivalent to real money in some fashion
It is not. It is just a game item. You can use it in game only. It is not recognized as qwuivalent to real money in any fashion, because you cant exchange it for Money in real world. At least CCP does not do that and forbids that.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2616
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 18:08:34 -
[570] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
None of this changes the fact that not all PLEX in game is source purchased. Nor does it merit the use of invective against another person.
Where else did PLEX origin from beside purchases? |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7280
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 18:18:18 -
[571] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft.
If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? I'd probably opt to not cross an ocean, but if I really had to and could afford it, I'd pick the boat. Well - a ship, just because a "boat" implies that it's not actually capable of crossing an ocean. Through being able to cross an ocean in just a couple of hours people have come to expect you to. Everything needs to be fast, everyone needs to be mobile and available anywhere anytime. It's rather stressful. I'm not saying that jet planes and mobile phones don't have their merits, but with them comes a lot of bullshit I have to deal with now every day. If it was still socially acceptable (and possible) to not have a phone, travel by carriage or ship and send letters via horseback courier, I'd certainly prefer that. I don't need everything right now. Too bad you died of cholera.
I don't get around much since that arrow hit me in the leg.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7280
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 18:31:15 -
[572] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget With attributes and attribute implants removed and the training speed increase to at least compensate. That should help new players especially those that can't afford sp injectors. If there is an sp-injected character expectation then that is the players that are enforcing such a thing. CCP can give the tools to do things but if the players want to enforce restrictions then the players can't blame CCP. If you're excluded from a corp. because of sp then find another one, chances are you might not like it there anyway (at least if it was me).
I have a take it or leave it attitude about the SP injection. If asked about the ramification, my answer is "I don't know".
But reading your post made me realize that now mission/incursion/anom grinding is no longer for naught. It's not just the servers that have hamsters in wheels: the players too. This means a massive ISK sink to move existing SP around.
What are the two things that have been amassed over the years? SP and ISK. ISK existing in two forms: actual ISK and PLEX.
What's the one thing a rank noob does not have? SP. But the noob can get ISK and lots of it.
For the min/max sperger it's feasible to imagine them getting into a spiral of sorts. It's like drug addicts who work hard just so they can get more drugs, but need more drugs because they work so hard. So it's possible the sperging crowd will get too caught up in this, running missions until they get enough SP to run incursions, running incursions until they can get super twinkboats so they can get more ISK and more SP through transfer of PLEX.
The only bulwark is then the limitations on the available pool of SP. How much SP does the average bittervet who trained up for say Titans and then realized they were coffins want to give up? How many PVP turned industrialists have SP they don't use?
Only the Shadow knows (that's an old saying).
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Anyura
Dark-Rising
153
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 19:50:18 -
[573] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone?
As I far as I'm concerned, Dr C will always be king of the SP, because he *worked* for them.
Slight expansion on my original comment - I'm okay with pilots using extractors and injectors to shift their own SP around, to clear away rookie training mistakes or for slight shifts in direction. Devouring injectors like SP flavoured Pringles is not okay. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:40:42 -
[574] - Quote
Thank you for that link, it was enlightening. It actually supports what I was saying.
Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. It just is. That's also the assumption and tool that lets people claim "$30,000 of spaceships blown up in an on-line battle". You can't have it both ways, be fake and be real. Value is a market determination based on perceived benefit. Even 'fake' virtual stuff has legally been shown to have real value. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6870901/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/virtual-worlds-wind-real-worlds-courts/#.VsTXZv0UXL8
Yes, I heard the 'amounts' he was claiming. He talked about recirculating them, so that could be where a lot of 'gift' PLEXes come from but those are confiscated from RMT or other actions against the game rules. I didn't know they did that but it makes sense, the State makes money off of criminals, no difference here.
If you paid attention, he also specifically said they reserved the right to take corrective actions against market pressures, either intentionally started by players or just as a need to correct pressures. What this means is that they can 'introduce' more PLEX onto the market to control too much upward price pressure or put in game sinks (he mentions fees and taxes, but there are more) to make the product more scarce to alleviate too much downward pressure. They want stability. Introducing PLEX, by definition would support the claim that all is not real money purchase based. Central Banks do this all the time, it's part of their function.
Again, I never said PLEX wasn't from real money, I said and meant that if even one PLEX was created out of thin air and introduced into the game, the claim that all of it is from real money fails, it is a true/false analysis. Has it happened before, I don't know, I could be completely wrong, but that was also my point.
My intent was to introduce uncertainty in speaking in absolutes when we have no proof that it has never been done in any fashion before for any reason before because the original post I was responding to was someone using invective from an absolute position that isn't as absolute as claimed.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:45:49 -
[575] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Where else did PLEX origin from beside purchases?
Read my post above. But the simple answer is, CCP introduces them either via the market, loot from NPC ships, or more creative mechanisms (Maybe Devs flying a ship with a PLEX in it looking to get shot up someplace, or as a prize for something, perhaps a lottery system, they always have giveaways).
The point is, only the 3 people mentioned in the video (maybe some others in CCP) know for certain if it is all from real money or not. We as players certainly don't. We can't even necessarily trust them to tell the truth here either as it might destabilize things if they told us when they were doing corrections to the PLEX market.
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Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 20:56:39 -
[576] - Quote
I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Before this buying of skillpoints - a pilot hitting the max would have been admirable and something very very special.
Instead it is now a sad joke.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
335
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 21:43:07 -
[577] - Quote
Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Before this buying of skillpoints - a pilot hitting the max would have been admirable and something very very special.
Instead it is now a sad joke.
A pilot should never have hit the max as new skills would have been added.
Problem is they don't want to be adding skills just to extend the skill tree.
The skills have a long training time and there are a lot of skills, that's normally a sign that they want players to be different as in what skills they have trained.
Those that made it their goal to train all skills should realise that, that was never the intended purpose of the skill tree.
Which is probably why CCP didn't add a hard point in respect to sp injectors use. Although I did initially think they should, but the more I've thought about it I realise they did the right thing by not adding one. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5387
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 21:52:33 -
[578] - Quote
Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4722
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 22:33:34 -
[579] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I can assure you that they confiscate more than they give out. They've explained this in the past. I'd link some posts from various devs on the topic, but I just don't care about the issue enough. You are welcome to use their crappy search function (Now, that's a legitimate complaint) to find them yourself if you are so inclined. The long and short of it is that they are not creating anything that wasn't already in the game. Mr Epeen I appreciate your assurances and did as you asked and searched for some rules or comments by DEV's on confiscating PLEX. Yup, the search function is typical Forum Board poor, but perhaps due to that, wasn't finding any comments by DEV's on the topic, quite a few by players and claiming various things. Since PLEX is equivalent to real money in some fashion, CCP would only do this if the player did something against the games' rules that CCP could absolutely prove. That PLEX is forfeit, regardless of how it entered the game and doesn't bear on the initial assumption of all of it coming in through purchased sources. I'm not saying that you aren't right about them doing it from time to time, but I don't see the proof that your assurance is beyond questioning. CCP gives out PLEX almost daily and even fairly regular in high end loot if those rumors are real. So it's kind of one perspective against another, neither one being proof capable as to rate of injection/removal. None of this changes the fact that not all PLEX in game is source purchased. Nor does it merit the use of invective against another person.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3024863#post3024863 Not a Dev post, but he is referencing a market intervention by CCP DrEyjo which the latter talked about at Fanfest. Basically, DrEyjo used PLEX from premabanned accounts.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
226
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 22:57:55 -
[580] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly. Quote:Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. So it can describe how much things are worth in game, by taking amount of money you did pay for the item to CCP, and describing for how much it can sell on market in Jita, in ISK value. This is your "equivalency", but its the only use it can have outside game from terms CCP made, to protect the game and their legal status. So this is only a rough estimate. Not real money value. Actually, legally everything in game, bought from CCP with real money is worth exactly 0$ every time because of terms you accepted.
In fact I'm pretty sure everything that exists in the eve world is the sole property of CCP. You don't even own the plex you bought or the isk in your wallet.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 23:22:20 -
[581] - Quote
Yes but again, we can't verify that. My previous post was based on that video. I've also wondered if they have confiscated enough PLEX to support the buddy PLEX system, again, can't prove a bit of it one way or the other. We'd never know if they did create it or reprocess it. We could suspect, but never actually 'know'.
I am curious as to how the entire PLEX vs. Skill Trading things balances out. Will be interesting to see if the prices increase or decrease in a few months time. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9924
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 23:46:01 -
[582] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Yes but
Give it up, people. That has been and will continue to be the response no matter how much evidence you present.
I'm ready to call troll on this one. Subtle and perhaps even well done, but a troll nonetheless.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4722
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 00:13:37 -
[583] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Yes but again, we can't verify that. My previous post was based on that video. I've also wondered if they have confiscated enough PLEX to support the buddy PLEX system, again, can't prove a bit of it one way or the other. We'd never know if they did create it or reprocess it. We could suspect, but never actually 'know'. I am curious as to how the entire PLEX vs. Skill Trading things balances out. Will be interesting to see if the prices increase or decrease in a few months time.
Okay, yes fine. Dr. Eyjo could have some sort of pathological liar, but I doubt it. Each PLEX represents a liability on CCP's books until it is used. Why create, out of thin air, liabilities that could sit on one's balance sheet for an indeterminate period.
Further, if we are going to go this route you have to doubt, literally, everything. Was Dr. Caymus really the highest SP character in the game? You can't verify it. Chribba could be a liar too when it comes to that. CCP could be lying.
Could everyone be lying about everything...yeah sure. But I'd rather not give into complete nihilism just yet.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2390
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 06:22:26 -
[584] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly. Quote:Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. So it can describe how much things are worth in game, by taking amount of money you did pay for the item to CCP, and describing for how much it can sell on market in Jita, in ISK value. This is your "equivalency", but its the only use it can have outside game from terms CCP made, to protect the game and their legal status. So this is only a rough estimate. Not real money value. Actually, legally everything in game, bought from CCP with real money is worth exactly 0$ every time because of terms you accepted. In fact I'm pretty sure everything that exists in the eve world is the sole property of CCP. You don't even own the plex you bought or the isk in your wallet. It is the property of CCP however the player has a legal right to use it because a contract is established between CCP and the player whenever money is exchanged for anything in game and the default understanding is that CCP will provide that "thing" to the player on an ongoing basis as long as the player complies with CCP rules.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2619
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 06:43:21 -
[585] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly. Quote:Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. So it can describe how much things are worth in game, by taking amount of money you did pay for the item to CCP, and describing for how much it can sell on market in Jita, in ISK value. This is your "equivalency", but its the only use it can have outside game from terms CCP made, to protect the game and their legal status. So this is only a rough estimate. Not real money value. Actually, legally everything in game, bought from CCP with real money is worth exactly 0$ every time because of terms you accepted. In fact I'm pretty sure everything that exists in the eve world is the sole property of CCP. You don't even own the plex you bought or the isk in your wallet. It is the property of CCP however the player has a legal right to use it because a contract is established between CCP and the player whenever money is exchanged for anything in game and the default understanding is that CCP will provide that "thing" to the player on an ongoing basis as long as the player complies with CCP rules.
Except you have to remember you also "signed" a contract with them that they can seize anything they want for pretty much any reasons.
They won't seize it without a reason but if they have one, the claim of ownership of a PLEX will be moot. |
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
172
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 15:31:52 -
[586] - Quote
This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done!
I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book...
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4726
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 15:46:20 -
[587] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done! I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book...
Be sure to sell it to him for 1.7 trillion ISK.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
173
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 16:00:40 -
[588] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dr Caymus wrote:This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done! I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book... Be sure to sell it to him for 1.7 trillion ISK. ... oh, at least that... I would think this book would command a significant premium!
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9938
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 18:56:05 -
[589] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done! I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book... Dr Caymus, I sympathize with you. Being the top dog in amassed SP was your thing and that's been taken away from you.
It sucks, to be sure.
But let's look at the big picture. You two are are an insignificant portion of the players base. You two are outliers. You two are unimportant in your little battle of the SP to the majority of people playing.
Let it go.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Don Pera Saissore
74
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 19:47:46 -
[590] - Quote
That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
and now...
now they just look like a bunch of losers, spending all that time and money just so they can be betrayed by the makers.
let it go sounds more like go **** yourself |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5436
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 19:58:28 -
[591] - Quote
Quote:That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
I have heard about Caymus just now, when someone maxed his character, and I play this game for years. Its so ironic, dont you think?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9939
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 20:28:02 -
[592] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
Seriously, you can't make this stuff up folks!
Oh wait...you just did.
Worshiping someone because they happened to be subbed longer than anyone else is not only lame, but to say that more than a handful of people knew about it or cared that much is an outright lie.
I think you are confusing people that have made no contribution of note to this game with people like Chribba, who is an actual EVE hero.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2621
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 22:57:05 -
[593] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
and now...
now they just look like a bunch of losers, spending all that time and money just so they can be betrayed by the makers.
let it go sounds more like go **** yourself
Don Pera Saissore wrote: was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
LOLNOPE |
Memphis Baas
1145
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 23:13:04 -
[594] - Quote
So the average rank of the 415 different skills in EVE is 4.6. |
Don Pera Saissore
75
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 02:30:19 -
[595] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I have heard about Caymus just now, when someone maxed his character, and I play this game for years. Its so ironic, dont you think?
no thats actually sad
Mr Epeen wrote:I think you are confusing people that have made no contribution of note to this game with people like Chribba, who is an actual EVE hero.
being a member of the community for 13 years counts for something in my book. sticking with it through tough times is a contribution
worship? no, just respect
Frostys Virpio wrote:LOLNOPE
lol goon |
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
586
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 05:14:09 -
[596] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOLNOPE
Why are we stuck with you as the latest, and almost the worst I might add, Goon CCP Cheerleader?
Did you fall asleep when it was your turn to bump the freighter?
Farning those goldmines in napsec got boring?
This one is a perfect example of what you have gotten following the Goons advice CCP.
Eve dumbed down.
Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4727
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 05:47:11 -
[597] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOLNOPE
Why are we stuck with you as the latest, and almost the worst I might add, Goon CCP Cheerleader? Did you fall asleep when it was your turn to bump the freighter? Farning those goldmines in napsec got boring? This one is a perfect example of what you have gotten following the Goons advice CCP. Eve dumbed down.
The Butthurt is strong in this one.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5439
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 09:06:45 -
[598] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I have heard about Caymus just now, when someone maxed his character, and I play this game for years. Its so ironic, dont you think? no thats actually sad
no thats just life
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
72
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 15:03:24 -
[599] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOLNOPE
Why are we stuck with you as the latest, and almost the worst I might add, Goon CCP Cheerleader?
Wait are Goons now CCP Cheerleaders? Is the top alliance automatically assumed to be dev pets? |
Adeline Rais
Rais Industries and Research Incorporated
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 15:08:59 -
[600] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Grrrrr.
Fixed |
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IlIIlIIIlllIlIllIIIIll
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 08:42:24 -
[601] - Quote
As we can see, the sp injection is not abuse, and we can't insta titan a pilot. Thx CCP
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 11:22:47 -
[602] - Quote
This thread is still going??
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Sneaky Little Bastard
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 11:43:45 -
[603] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:This thread is still going??
Hope it will last forever ! |
Divine Entervention
Hunters Elite Krab Republic
817
|
Posted - 2016.02.20 13:41:58 -
[604] - Quote
heh
what a nerd |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2398
|
Posted - 2016.02.21 11:29:55 -
[605] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:status is an important consideration in all MMOs. So all the tears about the SP injectors is only because you Shitazillion Skillpoints holders can't stroke your E-wiener anymore because some Noob bought his SP's on the market. Oh, you poor little yous' playing since 2003 but you'd be surprised at how little skillpoints I have. Not a min maxxer, more than a few times forgot or couldnt be bothered to log in to train another absurdely long boring skill or took a 6 month break. I have a few hundred mill SP but spread over about 10 accounts not one.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
325
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 11:28:36 -
[606] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness.
imho, it doesn't have much good features really and as you already know i don't view this as bad as well, so for me it only changes the game.
this doesn't make me curse CCP and whine in the forums, but it doesn't make me excited also. i don't think this will kill EvE but i really hope this can attract more targets, i mean, customers, like Agent Moon (who is 4 day old that lost a 1.98B kronos). this doesn't make me feel cheated because this is not exactly cheap and for me money = time, some people have money, some poeple have time, so basically the same. and the most important thing is there's no winning in EvE, in addition to advantage =/= win, so this is actually not a pay2win.
well this is a good and fast way to train up and complete my PIA Jump Drive Calibration from 4 to 5 which is around 70% already but i paused it and trained other skills instead and i can't seem to be able to put it back again.
Just Add Water
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Anton Karnak
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 12:10:13 -
[607] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness.
Actually the opposite is true. The people attacking this feature seem to have only two arguments:
1) It's Pay To Win 2) Something magical has been taken out of the game.
The people who support or seem unaffected seem to have the following arguments:
1) Time gates suck and are "arbitrary" (to use your own words). 2) It may attract newer players to the game 3) It allows you to do what you want when you want 4) The SP have to come from the very people who seem opposed to the feature 5) It offers an alternative to an already existing feature (Character Bizarre) 6) It allows the reallocation of SP
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Josef Djugashvilis
3314
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 12:19:42 -
[608] - Quote
Anton, I am opposed to cash for skill points.
I) It is pay to get an advantage over those who cannot or will not pay cash for skills.
2) 'Magic' has nothing to do with it, but I believe that one of the fundamental pillars upon which the game (the skill system) is (was) based, has been removed - altered to the detriment of the game.
This is not a signature.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 12:26:06 -
[609] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote: on the contrary, you people are the ones who has narrow views on this, how can i be threatened by people/newbros having larger SPs than me if all this time i have been surrounded by people with larger SPs than me already. only this time, i have actually a chance to beat them 1v1.
So much this!! When I PVP or trade in the market there was already people with more SP competing with me. It does not affect me directly if more inject SP. In PVP there will still be a mixture of people with more and less than me, and I will fight against all of them, using game mechanics.
When trading I never sit and think "omg a buy order went through!! I am loosing EVE because another guy who did not get the order, would have paid less tax (due to SP injection, and optimizing the trading skills) if he had gotten it". I got the buyorder, and get a profit no matter how much profit everyone else get (with more or less SP than me- injected or not)
In regards to missioning: When doing missions, I also do not care if someone 10 systems away injected 8 mill SP or someone 4 systems away trained 9 years, and can also run missions (provided they have the standing). I will stilll get ISK, to buy PVP ships for.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
|
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 12:37:22 -
[610] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness.
Notice that most people are not defending this feature, but purely reacting to the exaggerated opinions of a few nay sayers. I actually have seen very few who are possitive towards this feature, but many who are neutral and think now that we have it anyway, it will affect EVE very little. That is not defending.
IMO. this feature is all about increasing income for CCP and that is fine. They could have chosen many other worse models. And tbh. you don't know what the alternative choice they considered was? Perhaps we got the lesser evil?
Btw. the people who are into fairness, how did they feel about 13 year old veterans having an advantage(you are the one claiming SP=advantage) purely based on they found the game earlier and subscribed longer? Is that really fair? Or did we all live with it, because in reality SP does not mean much on tranquility(like they still do not IMO, even if injected)?
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
|
|
Loradan Illstari
Heretic Army I N F A M O U S
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 15:40:52 -
[611] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Anton, I am opposed to cash for skill points.
I) It is pay to get an advantage over those who cannot or will not pay cash for skills.
2) 'Magic' has nothing to do with it, but I believe that one of the fundamental pillars upon which the game (the skill system) is (was) based, has been removed - altered to the detriment of the game.
You can buy skill injectors with just ISK. It is possible to make use of the feature without cash, so your first argument is a lie.
Time gating was never "fundamental" to the game or a pillar of it because the character bizarre has been around for years and directly circumnavigates that concept. Now you can be more surgical with the use of bought skill points. Oh, the horror. Yes, if someone wants to pay enough they may be able to get a 2% advantage of me in DPS output or a 10% advantage in MWD capacitor usage, but that's nothing new. There are already people out there with way more SP than me. There are already people out there who's skills are better optimized to their ships than mine are to mine, yet somehow I've still managed to function in this game all the same, and I'd bet half of those people were playing bought toons long before SP trading. Your second argument is also a lie. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
244
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 15:53:32 -
[612] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness. Notice that most people are not defending this feature, but purely reacting to the exaggerated opinions of a few nay sayers. I actually have seen very few who are possitive towards this feature, but many who are neutral and think now that we have it anyway, it will affect EVE very little. That is not defending. IMO. this feature is all about increasing income for CCP and that is fine. They could have chosen many other worse models. And tbh. you don't know what the alternative choice they considered was? Perhaps we got the lesser evil? Btw. the people who are into fairness, how did they feel about 13 year old veterans having an advantage(you are the one claiming SP=advantage) purely based on they found the game earlier and subscribed longer? Is that really fair? Or did we all live with it, because in reality SP does not mean much on tranquility(like they still do not IMO, even if injected)?
The thing is I think the way it will affect eve is going to be hard to notice until it is too late. The ability to buy SP is a radical shift from the way the game used to be. When I started the game in 2011 there were many players out there with more SP than I did, at the very beginning I did think "damn how will I ever catch these guys". Then a week later I realised that you could focus your SP and catch up quickly; for example I could train only frigates and catch up to a veteran in a short time eliminating his advantage. More SP only opens up more options and I was fine waiting on them, as a new player you have a lot to learn anyway so you don't need access to every single option in the game. I also felt it was perfectly fair that players who had been here for many years more than me had access to better ships, I came from an MMO background and expected as much.
Now that SP trading is around there are additional pressures on a new player. When I started I could queue up skills for my frigate and then play around in it finding out the best way to fly it, some of these lessons carried over to other hulls and expanded my knowledge of EvE. I could learn fittings, run missions, pvp with corpmates and still know that I was advancing as fast as was possible (barring expensive implants). Now as a newbie I would feel that to be any use in this game I would need to fly a T2 or T3 cruiser, this will be my goal and I will try what I can to get there ASAP seeing as I want to do the fun thing. To get there fastest I'm going to be spending a lot more time than I would have previousy farming ISK to pay for injectors. In the past as long as I had ISK to cover my losses I would be fine, now I have a pressure to use injectors to meet my current goal. Once I get a T3 cruiser with my bought skillpoints maybe my goal changes to flying a carrier, maybe I then continue farming (since thats my experience of the game) until I have enough SP for the carrier. I can see it leading to a lot more farming and less newbies jumping in with what they have. I also see it cheapening the wait you have until you achieve a goal and thus cheapening the feeling you get when you do complete your goal.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Loradan Illstari
Heretic Army I N F A M O U S
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 16:21:02 -
[613] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:sero Hita wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness. Notice that most people are not defending this feature, but purely reacting to the exaggerated opinions of a few nay sayers. I actually have seen very few who are possitive towards this feature, but many who are neutral and think now that we have it anyway, it will affect EVE very little. That is not defending. IMO. this feature is all about increasing income for CCP and that is fine. They could have chosen many other worse models. And tbh. you don't know what the alternative choice they considered was? Perhaps we got the lesser evil? Btw. the people who are into fairness, how did they feel about 13 year old veterans having an advantage(you are the one claiming SP=advantage) purely based on they found the game earlier and subscribed longer? Is that really fair? Or did we all live with it, because in reality SP does not mean much on tranquility(like they still do not IMO, even if injected)? The thing is I think the way it will affect eve is going to be hard to notice until it is too late. The ability to buy SP is a radical shift from the way the game used to be. When I started the game in 2011 there were many players out there with more SP than I did, at the very beginning I did think "damn how will I ever catch these guys". Then a week later I realised that you could focus your SP and catch up quickly; for example I could train only frigates and catch up to a veteran in a short time eliminating his advantage. More SP only opens up more options and I was fine waiting on them, as a new player you have a lot to learn anyway so you don't need access to every single option in the game. I also felt it was perfectly fair that players who had been here for many years more than me had access to better ships, I came from an MMO background and expected as much. Now that SP trading is around there are additional pressures on a new player. When I started I could queue up skills for my frigate and then play around in it finding out the best way to fly it, some of these lessons carried over to other hulls and expanded my knowledge of EvE. I could learn fittings, run missions, pvp with corpmates and still know that I was advancing as fast as was possible (barring expensive implants). Now as a newbie I would feel that to be any use in this game I would need to fly a T2 or T3 cruiser, this will be my goal and I will try what I can to get there ASAP seeing as I want to do the fun thing. To get there fastest I'm going to be spending a lot more time than I would have previousy farming ISK to pay for injectors. In the past as long as I had ISK to cover my losses I would be fine, now I have a pressure to use injectors to meet my current goal. Once I get a T3 cruiser with my bought skillpoints maybe my goal changes to flying a carrier, maybe I then continue farming (since thats my experience of the game) until I have enough SP for the carrier. I can see it leading to a lot more farming and less newbies jumping in with what they have. I also see it cheapening the wait you have until you achieve a goal and thus cheapening the feeling you get when you do complete your goal.
That's a lot of could bes and maybes, when in reality no one expects anything new of a new bro. New bros fly tackle and ECM frigates. No one expects a new bro to be in a Cerb in 2 weeks, or even 2 months. What you feel and what goes on aren't exactly similar. |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 16:35:30 -
[614] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote: Now as a newbie I would feel that to be any use in this game I would need to fly a T2 or T3 cruiser, this will be my goal and I will try what I can to get there ASAP seeing as I want to do the fun thing. To get there fastest I'm going to be spending a lot more time than I would have previousy farming ISK to pay for injectors. In the past as long as I had ISK to cover my losses I would be fine, now I have a pressure to use injectors to meet my current goal. Once I get a T3 cruiser with my bought skillpoints maybe my goal changes to flying a carrier, maybe I then continue farming (since thats my experience of the game) until I have enough SP for the carrier. I can see it leading to a lot more farming and less newbies jumping in with what they have. I also see it cheapening the wait you have until you achieve a goal and thus cheapening the feeling you get when you do complete your goal.
This is however pure speculation based on your own preferences and feelings. I don't feel this pressure you speak off, and tbh. are we dealing with grown-ups or children? If you cannot stand up against a pressure in a video game, where you can have just as much fun without injecting, you have bigger problems than SP trading IMO. Like I said more SP will mean very little in the game.
Also did you notice how you shifted from injecting SP being an OP advantage, unto that you as a newbie can catch up fast and SP don't matter
Mr Mieyli wrote: When I started the game in 2011 there were many players out there with more SP than I did, at the very beginning I did think "damn how will I ever catch these guys". Then a week later I realised that you could focus your SP and catch up quickly; for example I could train only frigates and catch up to a veteran in a short time eliminating his advantage.
Because I sure did. And suddenly the real problem is the poor newbies will have no feeling of accomplishment. I think this is called moving the goalposts? For someone who complain about other people using "no true scotsman", this is quite funny.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1802
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 17:00:11 -
[615] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness.
Pay to win usually adds things to a game that are not avalable by otber avenues.
Skill injectores and extractors may be added but tbeir existence alone offers no advantage. The net result of using extractors on a global level is tons of sp being destroyed.
So no, its different enough from p2w to deserve its own term |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
245
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 18:45:59 -
[616] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote: Now as a newbie I would feel that to be any use in this game I would need to fly a T2 or T3 cruiser, this will be my goal and I will try what I can to get there ASAP seeing as I want to do the fun thing. To get there fastest I'm going to be spending a lot more time than I would have previousy farming ISK to pay for injectors. In the past as long as I had ISK to cover my losses I would be fine, now I have a pressure to use injectors to meet my current goal. Once I get a T3 cruiser with my bought skillpoints maybe my goal changes to flying a carrier, maybe I then continue farming (since thats my experience of the game) until I have enough SP for the carrier. I can see it leading to a lot more farming and less newbies jumping in with what they have. I also see it cheapening the wait you have until you achieve a goal and thus cheapening the feeling you get when you do complete your goal. This is however pure speculation based on your own preferences and feelings. I don't feel this pressure you speak off, and tbh. are we dealing with grown-ups or children? If you cannot stand up against a pressure in a video game, where you can have just as much fun without injecting, you have bigger problems than SP trading IMO. Like I said more SP will mean very little in the game
In real life and in everywhere else people follow the different pressures put on them, any illusion of a choice is just that. There is now undeniably an ability for a committed newbie to farm ISK to buy SP to get "caught up" to his friends. I don't think it's pushing the boat out too far to say that newbies will be farming more ISK now than before since they are able to buy SP and catch up. Why wouldn't they want to? If I was new again and was told that "hey you can fly any ship you want if you just farm a little" then I'm sure I'd take the opportunity. Even if my farming was quite spread out it would still be more farming than I did previously.
sero Hita wrote:Also did you notice how you shifted from injecting SP being an OP advantage, unto that you as a newbie can catch up fast and SP don't matter Mr Mieyli wrote: When I started the game in 2011 there were many players out there with more SP than I did, at the very beginning I did think "damn how will I ever catch these guys". Then a week later I realised that you could focus your SP and catch up quickly; for example I could train only frigates and catch up to a veteran in a short time eliminating his advantage.
Because I sure did. And suddenly the real problem is the poor newbies will have no feeling of accomplishment. I think this is called moving the goalposts? For someone who complain about other people using "no true scotsman", this is quite funny.
In fact if you go back and look at my posts I have always been saying that this is going to hurt the game and its going to do it by cheapening the experience for everyone, including the supposed beneficiaries the newbies. Injecting SP will give you the ability to shortcut potentially years of skilling if you pay enough. It is an advantage not in day-to-day battles but in the capabilities that you can have. If I buy SP I can instantly adapt to game changes and try new things, if I cant afford it then I can't. I can also skip right by my equals, if I buy SP I can bring a T3 destroyer against your frigate you have trained skills for and pwn you. You might think my argument has changed but you're just not seeing the big picture.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
48
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 19:00:25 -
[617] - Quote
I really dislike this "Pay to win" concept talk because the entire foundation of the concept of P2W is flawed. You have to have a PC to play the game, pay to play. You have to have a good internet connection, pay to play. You have to buy into the game, subscribe, whatever, pay to play. There is no WINNER in this game, it's an ongoing open game with no definable end point. It is impossible to 'win' in the classic sense of the term, so it's still pay to play.
If someone thinks that someone else with a billion skill points, twitchy reactions like a cat on catnip, and a brain the size of MARS to think through every possible permutation of the game has 'won' they are mistaken. They are just playing. Even if you lose EVERY SINGLE ship fight, the game mechanics specify, you never really die, you get a free ship, and you can keep trying over and over in some kind of Sisyphusian play mode, you can until you tire of it. You have paid your money, you get to play.
Now, all this griping and moaning about people getting advantage over another, please stop calling it pay to win, by definition it doesn't exist in the context of this game. It's a wrong term on so many levels that it's masking the real issue here.
So, Mr. Billionaire decides to have a day 1 mega character, trained to the max. Only someone with some serious doubts about their own skills and play ability should be worried about that character. Even I wouldn't be scared of that toon and I am a terrible PVP pilot at this point. They just don't know how to play. So this argument is theoretical at best and has no effect on the game.
In summary, stop worrying about the other guy. You can't determine ANYTHING other than your own actions. Do the best you can with what you want to have fun with. Make the game fun for YOU, and it doesn't take money. None of us will ever be the best because even the masters of the killboards still lose to other players from time to time. That should make you happy, it means you'll always have something to strive towards.
Can we put this topic to bed? The injectors are here, they aren't changing much and whatever evil they are doing to the game seems to be balanced by the good they are doing, at least at this point. So lets all give it some time, play the game, have fun and not worry about this in the near term. Lets look back on it a couple months from now and see what the effects are in the longer term. M'kay? |
Josef Djugashvilis
3316
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 19:26:06 -
[618] - Quote
Dear Loradan, in order for my first point to be a 'lie' it would have to be the case that one cannot buy skill injectors with cash (buy Arum with real life cash, use to buy skill injectors) is it your contention that this is not so?
That one can also buy them with isk, does not in any way alter that they can also be bought with real life cash - that is, pay to gain an advantage.
This is not a signature.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1945
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 20:28:19 -
[619] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Loradan, in order for my first point to be a 'lie' it would have to be the case that one cannot buy skill injectors with cash (buy Arum with real life cash, use to buy skill injectors) is it your contention that this is not so?
That one can also buy them with isk, does not in any way alter that they can also be bought with real life cash - that is, pay to gain an advantage. No, you said that cash created an advantage over those who can't or won't spend cash for SP. In order for that to be true there has to be something that determines non-cash options cannot match cash options. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1802
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 20:39:03 -
[620] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Loradan, in order for my first point to be a 'lie' it would have to be the case that one cannot buy skill injectors with cash (buy Arum with real life cash, use to buy skill injectors) is it your contention that this is not so?
That one can also buy them with isk, does not in any way alter that they can also be bought with real life cash - that is, pay to gain an advantage. No, you said that cash created an advantage over those who can't or won't spend cash for SP. In order for that to be true there has to be something that determines non-cash options cannot match cash options.
Yes, by their standard, just playing the game for longer = pay2win. |
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4767
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 21:38:49 -
[621] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Notice that the people defending this feature don't have examples of why it's good for the game, only "no true Scotsman" arguements about why this feature isn't like p2w in other games. It is what it is, you can now buy skill points for money and bypass an arbitrary amount of time limited only by you wallet. This is obviously inherently unfair for people who care about fairness. Pay to win usually adds things to a game that are not available by other avenues. Skill injectors and extractors may be added but their existence alone offers no advantage. The net result of using extractors on a global level is tons of sp being destroyed. So no, its different enough from p2w to deserve its own term
Preface: Not a fan of this change.
However, I have to agree with Crosi above.
1. In other games P2W is quite clearly that. I pay $ and I get an in game item or items (that are often consumed--i.e. not always a permanent benefit)
2. The items are created out of "thin air"--i.e. nobody else in the game had the item, made the item, etc. Poof there it is in my hangar, garage, etc.
For SP injectors to work....somebody has to sell existing SP that came out of an existing character. So it is not the same as 2 above.
Also, while skills do open up new hulls, modules, etc. and can convey a benefit they are not the end all in this game. There are no fixed team sizes, no match making, nothing like that. If I go out with a new character and inject him with 5 million SP and start PvPing characters with 1 million SP (setting aside how I could even find such characters) there is nothing from stopping him from bringing a buddy and "winning". So it isn't even clear that 1 holds in this case because there are ways around that too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1803
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 21:51:12 -
[622] - Quote
Ive not done the math, but i would expect that the amount of SP destroyed in creating this character would have created 3 or more perfect characters if it were not for the diminishing returns on SP injectors. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4767
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 22:08:33 -
[623] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Ive not done the math, but i would expect that the amount of SP destroyed in creating this character would have created 3 or more perfect characters if it were not for the diminishing returns on SP injectors.
Well, he has what...474,368,000 SP, so just going from 80 million to 474,368,000 would require 1,314,560,000 SP. He got to keep 394,368,000 of that SP meaning 920,192,000 SP were destroyed, or almost enough for 2 characters to have near perfect skills.
So not three, but 2.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
d0cTeR9
Oceanic Death Squad SpaceMonkey's Alliance
315
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 23:23:44 -
[624] - Quote
IWantISK RMT at its best. CCP should ban all of them after it's been proven they were RMTing.
Been around since the beginning.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1803
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 23:59:43 -
[625] - Quote
Having a gambling website making so much isk you can spend 2 trillion on a maxed out character is not evidence of RMT.
Thought having so much isk you could never hope to spend it in game in a lifetime must be watched closely as the temptation to RMT must be real. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
472
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 01:43:57 -
[626] - Quote
can i have gallente frigate lvl 6 or 7 with this feature cause i see a lot of p2win in posts but it seems to me you can inject as much sp you want but you just gonna have lvl 5 in whatever skill so ... win .. win what?
now ccp get rid of off grid boost already and put logi on killmails
CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails
.... Open that damn door !!
you shall all bow and pray BoB
|
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
443
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 14:48:44 -
[627] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone?
CCP owes you an apology. For what it's worth, in my book Dr. Caymus still has the most skillpoints in Eve.
No good deed goes unpunished
|
Loradan Illstari
Heretic Army I N F A M O U S
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 18:53:38 -
[628] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Loradan, in order for my first point to be a 'lie' it would have to be the case that one cannot buy skill injectors with cash (buy Arum with real life cash, use to buy skill injectors) is it your contention that this is not so?
That one can also buy them with isk, does not in any way alter that they can also be bought with real life cash - that is, pay to gain an advantage.
Your post is a lie because you claim that people willing to pay cash have an inherent advantage over those who aren't, which is not true. There are people with more than enough ISK in this game to buy all the SP they please without spending a dime. You can't pay for anything that someone else can't do with time and effort, so yes, your post is a complete lie. In fact, it could be argued that those using time and effort are the ones developing the intangible skill set required to actually succeed at playing the game, so in effect, those utilizing time and effort have an advantage over those willing to pay that you can't pay for with real cash. Your argument continues to disintegrate by the minute. |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 20:57:26 -
[629] - Quote
if you don't like where the game is going start a riot; it worked before during Incarna and it actually makes your CSM representatives earn their keep! |
Kukaryamba
Bogan Nation I N F A M O U S
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 21:30:46 -
[630] - Quote
i wonder how much eveappraiser values his toon now.. |
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Pyrasanth
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 21:53:53 -
[631] - Quote
Some things need to be protected. Eve was the "Amazon rain forest" of the gaming world- unique and irreplaceable- now a bull dozer has been unleashed & the forest is getting flattened.
I have a lot of skill points. I wont move them, sell them or inject them from elsewhere. The achievement is uniquely mine as to how they were earnt & honed & money can't buy that feeling. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10191
|
Posted - 2016.04.22 23:00:08 -
[632] - Quote
I too love The Walking Dead.
Not enough to to live it vicariously through resurrecting long dead threads though.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
725
|
Posted - 2016.04.23 13:32:49 -
[633] - Quote
That eliteness... someone hunt him down and gank him by showing up with n+1 please.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
11
|
Posted - 2016.04.23 18:39:06 -
[634] - Quote
PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* around 1.8trillon isk you can have a maxed char, CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W, if you have the isk you can have max chars
I didn't know having a lot of money equates to knowing how to fly a capital ship. |
Frederick Nurks
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 02:26:55 -
[635] - Quote
Just to add my disgust level to this thread, For how it makes my slow grind to get skill points absolutely worthless, yes there is other parts of the game, but when I reached Lvl 5 in anything I thought I had accomplished something,
P2W - now if you have enough isk, not much is stopping you putting the ship and bits you want. CPP: may as well just drop skillpoints totaly and just charge an extra $'s on subscription.
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-----OOOOO----
EVE - Where everyone encourages you to play anyway you like, as long as it is the way they play.
I just think wine bottles should bigger, so there is enough to share.
|
Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
465
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 04:23:01 -
[636] - Quote
Don't care. Those armour skills won't help him when he shield tanks, and the processing skills won't help him at all.
Share your experience
Write for the EVE Tribune
www.eve-tribune.com
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54149
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 08:31:54 -
[637] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Edwin Rothbard wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage.. I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now. Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it. Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense. so what if he can use T2 mods and ship if he doesn't know how to use it or if nobody plays with him? check lowsec especially FW deaths, notice that even veteran players uses T1 ships with mixed T1/T2 mods? infact, i don't see you, a 2007 character, flying OP or expensive ships yourself to have an advantage over others and you have plenty of SP, why? if having more SP is such of an advantage, why are you in particular, not showing it? Having more Skill Points has been and always will be the deciding factor when doing balanced 1v1.
A couple years ago when CCP had that big 3 stage Exploration / Sight Seeing contest, one of the tasks was to take a screenshot of your pod on fire. I had never really done any PvP and a friend of mine with lot's of PvP experience agreed to help me accomplish that task without exploding my pod.
He offered to give me a few lessons on PvP solo engagement while helping me to accomplish my task. We got set up in a secluded system out in deep space in the same type of Rookie ship with the same exact fit up. While this was happening we noticed that my ship was dealing more DPS as well as repping more damage than his ship. My ship was also able to hit his ship while traveling faster in a much larger orbit than his ship.
It didn't take long to figure out that I had way more Skill Points in all of the basic skill groups which affected ship operations, defense and offense. Course we weren't using any EWAR, Drones or OGB, etc. Both of us had the same basic set up doing basic engagement tactics.
In the end we realized that while experience can be gained rather quickly, it's the one with more Skill Points that will always be more effective.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 10:22:31 -
[638] - Quote
It would be ironic to inject enough skillpoints to use 1400mm artillery effectively.
It's tempting...
A signature :o
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
427
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 10:48:39 -
[639] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:Edwin Rothbard wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage.. I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now. Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it. Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense. so what if he can use T2 mods and ship if he doesn't know how to use it or if nobody plays with him? check lowsec especially FW deaths, notice that even veteran players uses T1 ships with mixed T1/T2 mods? infact, i don't see you, a 2007 character, flying OP or expensive ships yourself to have an advantage over others and you have plenty of SP, why? if having more SP is such of an advantage, why are you in particular, not showing it? Having more Skill Points has been and always will be the deciding factor when doing balanced 1v1. A couple years ago when CCP had that big 3 stage Exploration / Sight Seeing contest, one of the tasks was to take a screenshot of your pod on fire. I had never really done any PvP and a friend of mine with lot's of PvP experience agreed to help me accomplish that task without exploding my pod. He offered to give me a few lessons on PvP solo engagement while helping me to accomplish my task. We got set up in a secluded system out in deep space in the same type of Rookie ship with the same exact fit up. While this was happening we noticed that my ship was dealing more DPS as well as repping more damage than his ship. My ship was also able to hit his ship while traveling faster in a much larger orbit than his ship. It didn't take long to figure out that I had way more Skill Points in all of the basic skill groups which affected ship operations, defense and offense. Course we weren't using any EWAR, Drones or OGB, etc. Both of us had the same basic set up doing basic engagement tactics. In the end we realized that while experience can be gained rather quickly, it's the one with more Skill Points that will always be more effective. DMC
and how often do you find or experience a balanced 1v1 in EvE? o.O
again, still don't see anybody dominating and slaughtering everybody with his max SP characters.
Just Add Water
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
9214
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 10:52:50 -
[640] - Quote
PvP and 1vs 1 generally will never be balanced because people are not balanced.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
427
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 13:18:08 -
[641] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:That eliteness... someone hunt him down and gank him by showing up with n+1 please.
who IronBank? you do know he is one of the guy who paid MBC to kicked you out of dek right?
Just Add Water
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5091
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 13:30:00 -
[642] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:That eliteness... someone hunt him down and gank him by showing up with n+1 please. who IronBank? you do know he is one of the guy who paid MBC to kicked you out of dek right?
The IWI banker behind the war is LennyKravitz2, actually. But yeah. Elite or not elite, those guys are spending 900 billion a week to keep the war going on. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17697
|
Posted - 2016.04.24 13:46:03 -
[643] - Quote
Frederick Nurks wrote:Just to add my disgust level to this thread, For how it makes my slow grind to get skill points absolutely worthless, yes there is other parts of the game, but when I reached Lvl 5 in anything I thought I had accomplished something...
Yeah nah, that's not the way to look at it. Really mate, EVE is about the stories. Some people buy books and skip through to the end to see what happens; that doesn't make it "worthless" for me to read the whole book. Some people would rather take a helicopter ride to the top of the mountain than climb it; that doesn't make it worthless for you to acheive that for yourself.
I'm not the one being cheated in that scenario with the book. You've lost nothing with this if you play the game your way and forget that guy.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54236
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 01:18:58 -
[644] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:
and how often do you find or experience a balanced 1v1 in EvE? o.O
again, still don't see anybody dominating and slaughtering everybody with his max SP characters.
Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Caldari Citizen 115-16-18737
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 09:50:31 -
[645] - Quote
I'd always wondered what the circumstances of someone maxing out their SP would be. I imagined it would be an event, with some build-up toward the moment when the character in question would "tick over." I never imagined that it would simply come down to an ISk transaction. No fanfare, no mention, just cha-ching and there you go.
As others have said: really sad. Massive anti-climax.
But at least it couldn't have happened to a nicer person...right? |
lollerwaffle
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
286
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:59:01 -
[646] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
Sure. |
Pinkylein
Rolling Static
7
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 11:16:15 -
[647] - Quote
It is interesting how many ppl are affected by this what happened. Yes he maxed out skills, but he's actually not even really playing anymore afaik, but only doing some non-ship-based stuff ...
And he did it probably not even because to show you how good he is, but maybe just because he's so bored of the game, that there was literally nothing anymore that he could do to make the evening exciting in eve. Just an assumption ...
At the end, there is a limit with all the injectors that can be done. There is this one and there might be some others. But since SP is lost, everytime someone is injecting or extracting, except of some very low-SP cases, even money cannot buy everything at the end. There is a limit of how much SP can be extracted in a short amount of time, as there will be a moment, nobody has anything more to extract, and from that moment, they either need to create new chars to gain SP ... which then ... take time ... or accounts need to be destroyed that were not planned to be destroyed in the first place, so someone else can put that SP into his account.
So ... Pay2Win ... maybe ... but only for the time, until there are no injectors left.
From that moment ... everything works as usual. And the "some" guys that did inject to get ALL the skills ... will probably not be seen on the field and we might just know "there is one ..." but we more appreciate those ppl anyways that write in reddit or forum something like "yay \o/ i did it ... Minmatar Dread V after ... many months or whatever" ... and life goes on from that moment and we all know "that is the eve we like and play" :)
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1427
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 00:55:22 -
[648] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote: will degrade their product any way they can to get more it seems.
Ideal Capitalism is where you are under pressure from competitors to improve your product and so out-do the competition. Real Capitalism is where you work to abolish both the employee and the customer, as far as they are involved with profit. Ideal Capitalism is where your product becomes necessary to the consumer so much so that it is in your interest to degrade the customer, forever receiving more for less. The best food is made by the person dedicated to making good food. The most profit is made by the schmuck who figures "hell people gotta eat" and so wrings a buck out of that need, with no real motivation to make food. Marketing is how you are informed that the second guy is a genius and a great man.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4957
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 05:04:07 -
[649] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: Ideal Capitalism is where you are under pressure from competitors to improve your product and so out-do the competition.
Yes.
Quote:Real Capitalism is where you work to abolish both the employee and the customer, as far as they are involved with profit.
No.
Quote:Ideal Capitalism is where your product becomes necessary to the consumer so much so that it is in your interest to degrade the customer, forever receiving more for less.
No.
Quote:The best food is made by the person dedicated to making good food. The most profit is made by the schmuck who figures "hell people gotta eat" and so wrings a buck out of that need, with no real motivation to make food. Marketing is how you are informed that the second guy is a genius and a great man.
No.
You started out so well, then went totally off the rails.
Oh...and why exactly are you necroing this thread?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Valkin Mordirc
2187
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 05:30:29 -
[650] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
Hardly.
As EVE stands right now. Even with Max skills, it's entierly possible a player who understand the mechanics of combat for EVE would or could easily kill a maxxed SP player.
I've personally met a large amount of players who still think all you do is orbit at 500 and press F1.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
55715
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 19:38:52 -
[651] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
Hardly. As EVE stands right now. Even with Max skills, it's entierly possible a player who understand the mechanics of combat for EVE would or could easily kill a maxxed SP player. I've personally met a large amount of players who still think all you do is orbit at 500 and press F1. Experience can be gained real quickly whereas skill points take time to accumulate. Well, it use to take time, now all it takes is money and anyone can have a max skilled character using top of the line equipment in less than a week. Which is exactly what this thread is all about.
Anyway as for your statement, gotta call BS on it. That same old story, same old song and dance propaganda crap is constantly told to new players on their first day in game. By the end of their Trial period they quickly realize it's just BS..
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1430
|
Posted - 2016.07.17 23:52:05 -
[652] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: You started out so well, then went totally off the rails.
You must think so because you disagree with something i said. Single word contradictions have to be ignored, since a valid response would be to answer No with Yes. Opinionated people yelling yes and no at each other is a version of hell best avoided.
Teckos Pech wrote:Oh...and why exactly are you necroing this thread?
I read a post by someone, looked at their other posts, saw one i just had to quote because i thought it important. In a way, forums are for venting neuroses and not really important.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
258
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 00:34:13 -
[653] - Quote
CCP is getting more aggressive in the harpooning of whales.
EVE has been P2W ever since the first multiboxed mining fleet happened. There are a lot of players out there who will see P2W, turn, and leave. We don't get to scam them, we don't get to blow them up. They see the game tried to sell them an in-game advantage for money, and they're just gone. They don't get to see the insane cross-play of all the toys we can put on our ships. They've seen what this does to games, and they know better to get into another one which even looks like it does this.
A signature :o
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Valkin Mordirc
2190
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 12:50:32 -
[654] - Quote
Quote: Experience can be gained real quickly whereas skill points take time to accumulate. Well, it use to take time, now all it takes is money and anyone can have a max skilled character using top of the line equipment in less than a week. Which is exactly what this thread is all about.
Knowledge on how to properly use mechanics and the understanding of mechanics is independent to the person trying to apply them. Multiple factors act as hindrance, or promotion in how an individual learns and uses the knowledge to great or dismissed effects.
I've seen players who have been told multiple times that a certain idea is bad, that what they are trying to accomplish is better done with something else. One of which was around my area of SP, but he was dual tanking Ravens and trying to run a Charon into lowsec, not matter how many times people told him he wouldn't listen.
Regardless of these factors these types of players are in EVE. Don't discount stupidity.
So in extreme, A player with maxxed SP, could easily be bested by another simply because he hasn't had the time to learn about the game proper. Or he's just plain stupid. Or ignorant and stuck on his own ideals. Since you seem to thing that what I say is Propaganda and Bullshit. It should be fairly easy for you to believe that one may be so stuck in his own ideals that he would refuse to see logical reason.
Also a player who has been around long enough to have 100mil SP, will undoubtable destroy the newbie who buys is way into 100mil SP. You seriously can not believe that literal Day Zero Player will have the ability to beat a 10-year BitterVet.
Even if both are give a local tanked thorax. Are told to fight. Do you honestly thing Day Zero will know how to handle cap management? Or how to use Orbit and Keep at range effectively? Do you think his reactions to DPS and Drones will be fast enough to keep up with a bittervet?
Quote:Anyway as for your statement, gotta call BS on it. That same old story, same old song and dance propaganda crap is constantly told to new players on their first day in game. By the end of their Trial period they quickly realize it's just BS..
DMC
Same old Story, Same old Dance. People repeat what they believe. Just because you have a disagreement with such does not turn it into propaganda.
It's just a certain majorities opinion, or a few vocal minorities.
I honestly from my time in EVE, that after 25mil SP a player can accomplish anything he wants just as long as he makes sure his cards are set in his favor.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Jean Luc Clermont
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
19
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 13:39:50 -
[655] - Quote
You know...
It's a lot of ISK to wave your e-peen about really, after all.. Very few Keepstars in the game so far so, being able to fly all those Supers is next to pointless currently.
I'm a jealous of his ISK, well yeah.. to be honest I am. Would i spend it like this, if i had it? Nah, not really, cos like i said, i don't see that point.
I'd still fight this toon 1v1, cos skill points and money don't make you a better player. A year old 12mil sp toon could match him in any frig, dessie or cruiser, I have toons that would match him in BSes too
I guess some folks will spend money just to show off, we see this all day, every day in RL.
One other thing that i would like to make comment on having read many of the replies..
Eve is now and has always been a game where wealth increases your chance of a win... from year dot.
More over it has been P2W ever since they introduced PLEX to the game.
Let's be straight about it, the only real winner here is CCP |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
215
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 14:27:21 -
[656] - Quote
SP definitely has an affect on a players ability to survive and win in a fight. Sometimes it is enough alone to give that player an edge over their opponent(s). Sometimes it isnt. It is similar to blobbing. Sometimes blobbing is enough to give an edge over an opponent and sometimes it isnt.
In all cases, more SP is an advantage. It is still not god mode though. A 500 mil sp character can be beat by a 20 mil sp character. You can only max out so many skills that apply to your particular situation, so in the grand scheme of things having 500 mil sp doesnt make you any more special than the next guy because you dont use all 500 mil of that sp at the same time in the same situation.
I actually have a good example for this. I am currently training a noob up to be a ratter so my main doesnt havent to JC back and forth between my own space and deployment systems. I am training him very specifically for this task. When i am done training him he will have the same ability to do this task using the same ship as my main. In this situation they are equal even though my main will have 10-15 times more SP than him when all is said and done.
SP only matters to the point that it applies to the situation. All that other SP my main has doesnt apply to this situation, so he has no added benefit over my noob. At this point it comes down to the actual skills of the person and the decisions they make.
Now if my main was actually a new player who injected to that level. And my noob was me who just started a new character to play with that player. I can guarantee you, that i will perform better than he will because i have the experience and knowledge of game mechanics. Where as he has little to no clue. And experience is something you can only buy with time. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4961
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 17:59:02 -
[657] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: You started out so well, then went totally off the rails.
You must think so because you disagree with something i said. Single word contradictions have to be ignored, since a valid response would be to answer No with Yes. Opinionated people yelling yes and no at each other is a version of hell best avoided. Teckos Pech wrote:Oh...and why exactly are you necroing this thread? I read a post by someone, looked at their other posts, saw one i just had to quote because i thought it important. In a way, forums are for venting neuroses and not really important.
First off, one word responses were sufficient because the vapid nature of what you wrote. Such as abolishing the customer. No customer no sale, no sale no money, no money no firm. Pretty simple really.
Also under capitalism trade is mutually beneficial, or is at least perceived to be a priori. If it were not why are you so stupid to engage in the exchange?
Also, one of the biggest things one can do to improve profitability is to be innovative. Innovation results in alot more output in general than merely engaging in standard cost cutting. Firms that are innovative tend to be much more profitable than firms that are just doing the usual cost cutting, producing the same old thing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
437
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 18:40:17 -
[658] - Quote
Robin wrote:Holy Zombie-Thread Batman!
To those talking about Capitalism, please stop, you're making my brain hurt. There's no such thing as ideal Captialism because it's a free market and free means just that, open to everything. If there were any such thing as ideal Capitalism it would be "the trading of goods and services based upon agreed to terms and conditions". That's it. Anything else is perception based spin.
To those wanting to still discuss a Max-Out fluff toon... please, let this thread die again. Skill injectors are a fact of existence now. Let this thing go to bed. Start a different thread to debate toon skill vs. player skill.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1431
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 00:12:50 -
[659] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: First off, one word responses were sufficient because the vapid nature of what you wrote.
Ok, sounds like a cool game. No. Your turn.
Teckos Pech wrote: Such as abolishing the customer. No customer no sale, no sale no money, no money no firm. Pretty simple really.
The customer and the employee are drains on profit and can be abolished insofar as they impact profit. You are simple, read different books.
Teckos Pech wrote:Also under capitalism trade is mutually beneficial, or is at least perceived to be a priori. If it were not why are you so stupid to engage in the exchange?
If i own the town you live in, the factory you work in, the hospital you were born in, every school, store, library, bank and water supply you use, you are not being stupid when you pay me for what you made, with your labor, using worthless tickets i issued to you as payment. You're just at a massive disadvantage.
Teckos Pech wrote:Also, one of the biggest things one can do to improve profitability is to be innovative. Innovation results in alot more output in general than merely engaging in standard cost cutting. Firms that are innovative tend to be much more profitable than firms that are just doing the usual cost cutting, producing the same old thing.
Now who's being vapid? "...one of the biggest things...a lot more output in general..." Innovation is a buzzword, profitability improves much more if you monopolize markets, destroy competitor's ability to operate and collude with others to behave like a cartel. Ever wonder why there's so many laws against things like that? Actually give it some thought, no snappy answer please, and remember that money is a form of rationing.
Teckos Pech wrote:Edit: Hell, your first paragraph/sentence is contradicted by your last paragraph.
McDonalds does more business and makes more profit than any 5-star resaurant, VHS was never as good as BETAMAX, the list of inferior products that pushed superior ones out of business is long, showing the difference between Ideal and Actual.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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John Volan
Volan Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 04:20:17 -
[660] - Quote
Oh look a huge yellow skillboard.
What an enormous waste of isk... couldn't he just go fly a leopard filled with a thousand plexes around Jita or something? |
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3330
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 05:28:56 -
[661] - Quote
Wow. I think it's pretty impressive. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4961
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 06:09:37 -
[662] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:
[snip due to too many quotes]
Customer's are the source of profits, and labor is a factor of production. You cannot do without both right now, no matter what.
If you owned the town I lived in? Seriously? How about this, I move. Exchange is mutually beneficial. I only engage in a trade if it benefits me. If I cannot and I have to engage in the trade anyways that is NOT capitalism, it is called feudalism.
No, you are just plain old vanilla ignorant as to understanding economic growth. If one looks at things like cost minimization and population growth it explains about 20% of economic growth. What explains the other 80%? Innovation. If you knew anything about this field you'd know that there is a problem with economic growth theory because it explains so little. In fact, the notion of innovation was basically ignored.
Do you know what is perhaps the most innovative company in the world right now? Wal-Mart. One of their innovations was realizing they could put loading docks on 2 sides of the building, so that trucks with inventory for the produce/grocery section could have its own dedicated loading dock and the other half the store could it's own dedicated loading dock. Meaning that instead of having to move half the inventory across the store they could move it a much shorter distance. Wal-Mart also has the fewest patents of a corporation of its size. When a company turns to patents and intellectual property protection it is entering a phase when it is less innovative and sclerotic.
As for monopolies that is the exact OPPOSITE of competition. Further monopolies can only be sustained via government diktat or if the firm has a very unique cost structure. Further, what looks like a monopoly in 10-20 years will look alot less like a monopoly. Examples:
Standard Oil, at its height it controlled over 95% of the oil refining. When it was finally broken up it was down to about 65% of the refining market....and Ironically, Standard Oil has largely reformed under Exxon-Mobil, but it is still nowhere near a monopoly. Oh, and breaking Standard up made J. D. Rockefeller one of the richest men in the world.
IBM, which was sued by the US Justice Department, but by the time the case actually went to court IBM was no longer a dominant player in the computer market thanks to the rise of Microsoft.
Microsoft and the internet browser...again, by the time the case made it to court there was already a significant competitor, Firefox, and today there are several other competitors.
As for McDonalds, maybe you should stop reading whatever idiotic things you are reading and look at McDonalds closely. They are in trouble. They are struggling to stay in existence. They ditched their last CEO and brought in a new guy because things were going badly. McDonalds is facing alot of competition. For example, here in California if you want an awesome and affordable burger you go to In-n-Out a chain the makes fantastic burgers and amazing french fries at a very reasonable price. Again, an example of an innovative company. In-n-Out controls their entire supply chain thus internalizing lots of costs and reducing them. Now, is In-n-Out a five star restaurant? No, but it is a damn good burger. Some "mom-n-pop" establishments might beat it, but unless you are familiar with an area you go with In-n-Out because you know the quality will be at a certain level...way above McDonalds.
As for Betamax vs. VHS there is alot more there than you are letting on. For example Betamax could only offer up to 60 minutes of recording. VHS came in at 120 then later 240 minutes. So while Betamax had somewhat better picture quality on the dimension of recording time it was clearly inferior.
And I am still trying to figure out what any of this has to do with a maxed out epeen toon owned by a fairly dubious player in the game....oh wait, capitalism is bad and this is one more example.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1434
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 08:42:36 -
[663] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: If I cannot and I have to engage in the trade anyways that is NOT capitalism, it is called feudalism.
YOU DON'T SAY?
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4961
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 17:17:30 -
[664] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: If I cannot and I have to engage in the trade anyways that is NOT capitalism, it is called feudalism.
YOU DON'T SAY?
So you purposefully conflated feudalism with capitalism....you were being deliberately dishonest? Okay, good to know.
And this has what to do with a maxed out show character? That CCP is some sort of feudal lord?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2540
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 17:32:24 -
[665] - Quote
Not maxed, he doesn't have the "Black Market Trading " skill they never enabled (I do ). So I'll get pretty close to that over time. I was logged on last night and looking for skills to train. It is getting to the point where I am jut training new skills just to have something to train. I might not get there this year but in a few years I will have gotten mostly maxed. No skill injectors were involved. Just time and boredom. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
223
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 17:42:22 -
[666] - Quote
What does a character earn if all of its skills are trained? Does the SP just pool for later use?
-Inquiring Gadgets want to Know!
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4968
|
Posted - 2016.07.19 17:48:29 -
[667] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:What does a character earn if all of its skills are trained? Does the SP just pool for later use?
-Inquiring Gadgets want to Know!
I would guess nothing. There are no skills to put into the queue, so no new skill points are being acquired.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
268
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 14:51:21 -
[668] - Quote
Microsoft was sued over the inclusion of Internet Explorer free with Windows 98, which put then-dominant Netscape Navigator out of business. As part of Steve Jobs' save-Apple plan in late 1997, they had to bundle IE with new installs of the Mac OS: Microsoft bought a lot of Apple stock, and that was one of their conditions. IE in that time was notoriously non-standards-compliant, which meant a web developer had to choose between writing for IE and everything else. Because of how closely it was integrated with the desktop of Windows, it had serious security issues, which is why Firefox came around and was so popular.
And, because Microsoft seriously deserves it, let's go at a few of their other anti-innovations: When Windows Vista came out, it had a Direct3D-based desktop compositor. Before Vista, a lot of games were written with OpenGL to do the 3D graphics work. Before DirectX became effectively mandatory, a lot of games were written to use OpenGL (Quake 1/2/3 and a LOT of games written on those engines, Decent 3, Warcraft 3). This made porting software to other platforms that much easier. The Windows desktop compositor wasn't supposed to play nice with OpenGL, so all the game devs switched to DirectX, pretty much locking them into Windows as a platform. With OpenGL functionally written out of the scene and put on the driver developers' back burners (AMD, NVidia, or Intel wrote your OpenGL runtime), PC gamers were locked into Windows harder than ever before. The Windows 10 forced upgrade was... not smart. Unless you knew what you were doing (knew where to get a clean install of Never10), you were going to get stuck with Windows 10. It wouldn't let you opt out unless you read very carefully. That's the kind of behavior spyware installers used to use in the XP days: they'd keep prompting you to install the ActiveX control, and not quit until the user accepted. Is it a functionally better OS? Probably, but if it's going to behave like that, I don't want it. If you're a businesses with software which works with 7 but not 10... yeah.
And that kind of thing is why people who know are afraid of the Universal Windows App. On the surface, it's a very good concept: every app is sandboxed so it doesn't have the run of your system. That's a seriously good thing for games, which are notoriously insecure and love to demand admin privileges. Except... Because it's Microsoft, well... they've got a history of setting up platform lock-in. There's a good chance of "You have to use UWA if you want to use [insert new technology here]" in the future.
A signature :o
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
223
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 15:00:01 -
[669] - Quote
Quote:I would guess nothing. There are no skills to put into the queue, so no new skill points are being acquired.
Thanks.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4972
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 23:44:45 -
[670] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Customer's are the source of profits, and labor is a factor of production. You cannot do without both right now, no matter what. If you owned the town I lived in? Seriously? How about this, I move. Exchange is mutually beneficial. I only engage in a trade if it benefits me. If I cannot and I have to engage in the trade anyways that is NOT capitalism, it is called feudalism. No, you are just plain old vanilla ignorant as to understanding economic growth. If one looks at things like cost minimization and population growth it explains about 20% of economic growth. What explains the other 80%? Innovation. If you knew anything about this field you'd know that there is a problem with economic growth theory because it explains so little. In fact, the notion of innovation was basically ignored. Microsoft and the internet browser...again, by the time the case made it to court there was already a significant competitor, Firefox, and today there are several other competitors. And I am still trying to figure out what any of this has to do with a maxed out epeen toon owned by a fairly dubious player in the game....oh wait, capitalism is bad and this is one more example. Microsoft was sued over the inclusion of Internet Explorer free with Windows 98, which put then-dominant Netscape Navigator out of business. As part of Steve Jobs' save-Apple plan in late 1997, they had to bundle IE with new installs of the Mac OS: Microsoft bought a lot of Apple stock, and that was one of their conditions. IE in that time was notoriously non-standards-compliant, which meant a web developer had to choose between writing for IE and everything else. Because of how closely it was integrated with the desktop of Windows, it had serious security issues, which is why Firefox came around and was so popular. And, because Microsoft seriously deserves it, let's go at a few of their other anti-innovations: When Windows Vista came out, it had a Direct3D-based desktop compositor. Before Vista, a lot of games were written with OpenGL to do the 3D graphics work. Before DirectX became effectively mandatory, a lot of games were written to use OpenGL (Quake 1/2/3 and a LOT of games written on those engines, Decent 3, Warcraft 3). This made porting software to other platforms that much easier. The Windows desktop compositor wasn't supposed to play nice with OpenGL, so all the game devs switched to DirectX, pretty much locking them into Windows as a platform. With OpenGL functionally written out of the scene and put on the driver developers' back burners (AMD, NVidia, or Intel wrote your OpenGL runtime), PC gamers were locked into Windows harder than ever before. The Windows 10 forced upgrade was... not smart. Unless you knew what you were doing (knew where to get a clean install of Never10), you were going to get stuck with Windows 10. It wouldn't let you opt out unless you read very carefully. That's the kind of behavior spyware installers used to use in the XP days: they'd keep prompting you to install the ActiveX control, and not quit until the user accepted. Is it a functionally better OS? Probably, but if it's going to behave like that, I don't want it. If you're a businesses with software which works with 7 but not 10... yeah. And that kind of thing is why people who know are afraid of the Universal Windows App. On the surface, it's a very good concept: every app is sandboxed so it doesn't have the run of your system. That's a seriously good thing for games, which are notoriously insecure and love to demand admin privileges. Except... Because it's Microsoft, well... they've got a history of setting up platform lock-in. There's a good chance of "You have to use UWA if you want to use [insert new technology here]" in the future. As for what this has to do with this feature, this feature is blatant and nearsighted stab at monetization, and a naked attempt at selling power. Spend more money to "improve your game experience" (buy stats) in a PvP game.... nice way to make money, and seriously bad for the game itself. Read this and see where it's headed. Also relevant. Notice how many times he says "NEVER SELL POWER."
If anything you are proving my point. Netscape was dominant and if anything should have been sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act. But it wasn't and never will be because Microsoft took their market share. Netscape also got back at Microsoft by the creation of the Mozilla Foundation which lead to the rise of Firefox..which undermined Microsoft's market share and in turn has lost market share to chrome. And internet explorer is approaching a 10% market share....without having been broken up.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 05:13:38 -
[671] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:stuff If anything you are proving my point. Netscape was dominant and if anything should have been sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act. But it wasn't and never will be because Microsoft took their market share. Netscape also got back at Microsoft by the creation of the Mozilla Foundation which lead to the rise of Firefox..which undermined Microsoft's market share and in turn has lost market share to chrome. And internet explorer is approaching a 10% market share....without having been broken up. This details Microsoft's efforts to muscle everything else out of the Windows desktop PC. They didn't want anything running on the desktop PC which would break vendor lock-in. Netscape wasn't the only thing they tried to strongarm: they took aim at IBM's OS/2, Apple's Quicktime, Sun's Java, Lotus Notes. And Netscape. Anything they couldn't lock into the desktop PC with proprietary Windows-only APIs was bad. Seriously, read it. Quicktime and Windows Media player were replaced by Adobe Flash (early Youtube), which is being replaced by HTML5 video because Flash spent some time as everyone's favorite security problem. Java is still around. There are open implementations of it. Netscape got made irrelevant because Microsoft stalled them long enough for everyone to get used to free-with-the-OS IE. Then IE got so bad Firefox could happen. DirectX is still the go-to API for making seriously shiny games, because OpenGL has been allowed to become such a mess and there aren't any serious competitors. There are free-open-source versions of DirectX 9 (particularly WineD3D and Gallium Nine). Vulkan is still very young. And there aren't any really serious replacements for Windows. There are Wine and Wine-like runtimes. ReactOS aims to be an open-source drop-in replacement for Windows itself. There's the Mac OS, but that depends on really expensive almost-proprietary hardware. There's Linux, but that comes in so many flavors it's messy to support: there are super-stable versions like Debian, and bleeding-edge ones like Arch, and several in between specialized to do different things (like run off of a CD-RW instead of a hard drive).
If we were to apply the same solution to nearsighted cash grabs (injectors) ruining EVE as we did do to other software, it would be for us to just leave EVE to rot and play (or make) another game. So how long until we get pink bikinis? You know they're coming if CCP get themselves in serious trouble.
A signature :o
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bewzee
I Want ISK Corp
15
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 05:13:45 -
[672] - Quote
IRON did it because in a game like EVE, you don't often get to be the "first" to do something significant and notable. IRON achieved something nobody else will ever get to claim, and I guarantee you the 1.8~T isk was worth it to him. When you have the kind of ISK he has, it actually becomes hard to spend it on things nobody else can buy. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4972
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 05:55:24 -
[673] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:This details Microsoft's efforts to muscle everything else out of the Windows desktop PC. They didn't want anything running on the desktop PC which would break vendor lock-in. Netscape wasn't the only thing they tried to strongarm: they took aim at IBM's OS/2, Apple's Quicktime, Sun's Java, Lotus Notes. And Netscape. Anything they couldn't lock into the desktop PC with proprietary Windows-only APIs was bad. .
That is how competition works though.
And Microsoft is going to go into decline and will eventually, like most things, die. When a company turns to intellectual property laws that is when the company has left its innovative phase...think of it as hitting age 45. It might take awhile, but someday people will be talking about how significant that a once giant company is going to cease to exist, or be nearly entirely supplanted. That it is a sign of [insert something stupid that the person speaking thinks sounds pithy] about America or some other such nonsense. People will be nostalgic and other nonsense.
But capitalism is about creative destruction. When you create something new...it invariable destroys something old. And that new thing will face the same fate at some future date.
Sometimes you even get significant shifts. For example, agriculture was the dominant source of employment...that gave way to manufacturing...which in turn is also going away, slowly but surely.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
437
|
Posted - 2016.07.21 23:36:33 -
[674] - Quote
Forgive me if this has been mentioned...however, every time I see the subject line to this thread on the ToC, I think, "How many years did they say it would take to do this...again?"
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Boci
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
69
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 01:43:40 -
[675] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Forgive me if this has been mentioned...however, every time I see the subject line to this thread on the ToC, I think, "How many years did they say it would take to do this...again?"
Ignoring the 500k or so you start the game with as a new character now, assuming perfect training at al times without any of those accelerator things (2700 sp/hr) and no injectors...right around 20.5 years.
http://www.twitch.tv/bociwen - Newbie Friendly Q&A, Terrible Solo PvP
@BociSammiches
UHURT's Link Guy
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1333
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 05:57:00 -
[676] - Quote
bewzee wrote:IRON did it because in a game like EVE, you don't often get to be the "first" to do something significant and notable. IRON achieved something nobody else will ever get to claim, and I guarantee you the 1.8~T isk was worth it to him. When you have the kind of ISK he has, it actually becomes hard to spend it on things nobody else can buy.
So it becomes very apparent how incredible unimportant currency is. He can biomass now.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1333
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 05:59:00 -
[677] - Quote
I haz end solution for skill-zee-iwin-injectorz:
After lobotomy, you get zee kill virus. Kill-virus kills zee character permantly after 185 days.
Ezay, don't lobotomy, don't get zee kill virus.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 07:03:40 -
[678] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:This details Microsoft's efforts to muscle everything else out of the Windows desktop PC. They didn't want anything running on the desktop PC which would break vendor lock-in. Netscape wasn't the only thing they tried to strongarm: they took aim at IBM's OS/2, Apple's Quicktime, Sun's Java, Lotus Notes. And Netscape. Anything they couldn't lock into the desktop PC with proprietary Windows-only APIs was bad. . That is how competition works though. And Microsoft is going to go into decline and will eventually, like most things, die. When a company turns to intellectual property laws that is when the company has left its innovative phase...think of it as hitting age 45. It might take awhile, but someday people will be talking about how significant that a once giant company is going to cease to exist, or be nearly entirely supplanted. That it is a sign of [insert something stupid that the person speaking thinks sounds pithy] about America or some other such nonsense. People will be nostalgic and other nonsense. But capitalism is about creative destruction. When you create something new...it invariable destroys something old. And that new thing will face the same fate at some future date. Sometimes you even get significant shifts. For example, agriculture was the dominant source of employment...that gave way to manufacturing...which in turn is also going away, slowly but surely. Yes, it is. Firefox didn't exist in 1999. Microsoft wasn't out of ideas, it just had its own and used its dominance of the PC market to make them happen. You might look up Patent Litigation Enterprises and how they work. Also consider what happens when a food worker gets sick with that tiny paycheck they take home. They're supposed to go home, but on such thin margins, they almost certainly don't always. And those laws about keeping a path to the fire exit. It almost never leads to anything bad, but when it does, it's really bad.
CCP is well within their rights to put in P2W-oriented microtransactions. Most players know P2W-type games cost ridiculous amounts to pay competitively, they're going to be out a lot of money for it. About the only people who can legitimately ignore the advantage of injectors are the people who sit in a station in chat all day, and the people who already have all the skills they need. About the only type of player who would welcome a shift in the direction of P2W is someone with a lot of money to burn. A lot of players see P2W and head straight back out the door because of how incredibly bad it is even without being in a PvP environment. Without a certain critical mass of real players, most of EVE would become seriously monotonous, because we are most of what make the difference between one system or region and the next-unless they want to get into creating and maintaining a [i]lot] more scripted content. EVE is special among MMOs, because of how long it's managed to last, and because of how it was designed to allow and encourage player-generated history. It gets us to invest quite a bit of time and money and creative energy into it, and is way out there as far as MMOs go. Most of us consider a game with this much history worth preserving. We don't want it to turn into NES PvP, because of how incredibly bad that game would be.
A signature :o
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Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 15:16:09 -
[679] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote: pay to win? just a few posts above you dear is an example which demonstrates that more SP =/= winning. a 4-day pilot losing a 1.98B Kronos, how can that be called winning? o.O
What does it have to do with anything? A 10 y old char losing Kronos is somehow better? Or do they never lose ships? |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
292
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 15:23:23 -
[680] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote: pay to win? just a few posts above you dear is an example which demonstrates that more SP =/= winning. a 4-day pilot losing a 1.98B Kronos, how can that be called winning? o.O
What does it have to do with anything? A 10 y old char losing Kronos is somehow better? Or do they never lose ships? He's saying that no matter how much SP and ISK you have you don't become any better at playing the game. You can drop $3k on your first day in EVE and have the best ship on the planet and if you fight someone who knows how to play the game you'll get absolutely destroyed.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2661
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 16:11:56 -
[681] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:He's saying that no matter how much SP and ISK you have you don't become any better at playing the game. You can drop $3k on your first day in EVE and have the best ship on the planet and if you fight someone who knows how to play the game you'll get absolutely destroyed. There is no game where you can buy player skill since that is something you just can't buy. The term p2w is used for games where you can invest money to remove a paywall which would otherwise use a lot of work ingame or waiting time because you can only accumulate a certain amount of gold or xp or sp.. etc.
This was always true for ISK in EVE, now it is also true for SP. I don't think there is anything left in EVE to make it even more p2w.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 16:13:42 -
[682] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:He's saying that no matter how much SP and ISK you have you don't become any better at playing the game. You can drop $3k on your first day in EVE and have the best ship on the planet and if you fight someone who knows how to play the game you'll get absolutely destroyed. There is no game where you can buy player skill since that is something you just can't buy. The term p2w is used for games where you can invest money to remove a paywall which would otherwise use a lot of work ingame or waiting time because you can only accumulate a certain amount of gold or xp or sp.. etc. This was always true for ISK in EVE, now it is also true for SP. I don't think there is anything left in EVE to make it even more p2w. Golden ammo, ships, and modules.
A signature :o
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2661
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 16:17:15 -
[683] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:He's saying that no matter how much SP and ISK you have you don't become any better at playing the game. You can drop $3k on your first day in EVE and have the best ship on the planet and if you fight someone who knows how to play the game you'll get absolutely destroyed. There is no game where you can buy player skill since that is something you just can't buy. The term p2w is used for games where you can invest money to remove a paywall which would otherwise use a lot of work ingame or waiting time because you can only accumulate a certain amount of gold or xp or sp.. etc. This was always true for ISK in EVE, now it is also true for SP. I don't think there is anything left in EVE to make it even more p2w. Golden ammo, ships, and modules. Since the extractor is something which can not be produced by players this is basically the same as golden ammo
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Memphis Baas
1758
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 18:00:19 -
[684] - Quote
How about invulnerability tokens? You pay PLEX, you get a token for 60 seconds of complete damage invulnerability, to be activated at your discretion.
I mean we (and CCP) can always come up with more ideas to further ruin the game. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2662
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 18:11:54 -
[685] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:How about invulnerability tokens? You pay PLEX, you get a token for 60 seconds of complete damage invulnerability, to be activated at your discretion.
I mean we (and CCP) can always come up with more ideas to further ruin the game. Well yes thats true. They can obviously add more ridiculous stuff to the shop which can not be created by players.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4973
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 18:19:47 -
[686] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:He's saying that no matter how much SP and ISK you have you don't become any better at playing the game. You can drop $3k on your first day in EVE and have the best ship on the planet and if you fight someone who knows how to play the game you'll get absolutely destroyed. There is no game where you can buy player skill since that is something you just can't buy. The term p2w is used for games where you can invest money to remove a paywall which would otherwise use a lot of work ingame or waiting time because you can only accumulate a certain amount of gold or xp or sp.. etc. This was always true for ISK in EVE, now it is also true for SP. I don't think there is anything left in EVE to make it even more p2w. Golden ammo, ships, and modules. Since the extractor is something which can not be produced by players this is basically the same as golden ammo
So are skill books and blueprints.
I would also point out that in and of itself an extractor is useless. It becomes useful once it is full...of something players do produce.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
532
|
Posted - 2016.07.22 18:51:26 -
[687] - Quote
NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API. There are still skillbooks for it in the game, though not many. There's one in Jita right now for just shy of 75 bil.
If recognition is what you want, go for it, but I think I'd rather have a few supercarriers, instead.
Or at least a Greatcoat, which is (somewhat) visible in your profile image, and can thus be bragged about more easily.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Boci
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
70
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Posted - 2016.07.23 03:19:10 -
[688] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:NUBIARN wrote:incredibly he has astronautics science skill which I thought no more existed, be interesting if chribba verified this is a genuine API. There are still skillbooks for it in the game, though not many. There's one in Jita right now for just shy of 75 bil. If recognition is what you want, go for it, but I think I'd rather have a few supercarriers, instead. Or at least a Greatcoat, which is (somewhat) visible in your profile image, and can thus be bragged about more easily.
This is true, I am not sure how it compares in rarity, but I still have a Mobile Refinery Operation skillbook, so not too surprised Iron was able to find an Astronautics Engineering.
http://www.twitch.tv/bociwen - Newbie Friendly Q&A, Terrible Solo PvP
@BociSammiches
UHURT's Link Guy
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Dave Day
Universal Freelance
127
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 11:55:59 -
[689] - Quote
Congrats....your credit card just won Eve. |
Gary Bell
Herp Inc.dot Darwinism.
168
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 16:02:54 -
[690] - Quote
Dave Day wrote:Congrats....your credit card just won Eve.
He doesent need his credit card lol.. He owns an eve casino lol.. He has more money then he knows what to do with.. see WWB |
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Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 16:47:23 -
[691] - Quote
What I don't understand is why people are complaining about his skill points at all. Someone even tried to describe the character as "unbeatable." Unbeatable at what? In a contest of "who has more skill points?" All skills cap out at 5. I don't need 5s in EVERYTHING to max out performance on a given ship.
Further, I don't even need 5s in everything for a given ship to destroy some other ship, either. Neither do you.
There is no single ship that beats all other ships in the game. Not a one.
Really, the guy did this to show everyone how big his epeen is. I'm not impressed by it, and that character's ships will still die in a fire like everyone else's when they run into a situation they aren't prepared for handling.
Skill points don't make EVE pay to win. If you still suck at the game and fly into bad situations, YOU STILL DIE. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5002
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Posted - 2016.07.25 18:25:52 -
[692] - Quote
Saelyth wrote:What I don't understand is why people are complaining about his skill points at all. Someone even tried to describe the character as "unbeatable." Unbeatable at what? In a contest of "who has more skill points?" All skills cap out at 5. I don't need 5s in EVERYTHING to max out performance on a given ship.
Further, I don't even need 5s in everything for a given ship to destroy some other ship, either. Neither do you.
There is no single ship that beats all other ships in the game. Not a one.
Really, the guy did this to show everyone how big his epeen is. I'm not impressed by it, and that character's ships will still die in a fire like everyone else's when they run into a situation they aren't prepared for handling.
Skill points don't make EVE pay to win. If you still suck at the game and fly into bad situations, YOU STILL DIE.
Wut? Are you kidding me? Please, having Minmatar carrier to 5 clearly helps you fly an imicus. Sheesh.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
83
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Posted - 2016.07.25 18:49:20 -
[693] - Quote
aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddddddd..... there goes the game...
Eve = P2W people, everyone who says otherwise is just... silly |
Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
20
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:58:00 -
[694] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Wut? Are you kidding me? Please, having Minmatar carrier to 5 clearly helps you fly an imicus. Sheesh.
What was I thinking? Surely never before in the history of EVE has someone with less skill points killed someone with more skill points. Or ever has anyone with more lost to someone with less. Ever.
On a similar note, no one with more expensive modules or purples has ever lost a fight with anyone without.
Ever.
Not even to me. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5003
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:01:35 -
[695] - Quote
Saelyth wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Wut? Are you kidding me? Please, having Minmatar carrier to 5 clearly helps you fly an imicus. Sheesh.
What was I thinking? Surely never before in the history of EVE has someone with less skill points killed someone with more skill points. Or ever has anyone with more lost to someone with less. Ever. On a similar note, no one with more expensive modules or purples has ever lost a fight with anyone without. Ever. Not even to me.
Yes, but because I have fighters trained to lvl 5 I will beat you when I'm flying a zealot. Always.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
243
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Posted - 2016.07.25 19:31:17 -
[696] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes, but because I have fighters trained to lvl 5 I will beat you when I'm flying a zealot. Always.
Well, you have the option of switching ships, so tactically there could be an advantage.
Ok... it's a stretch, but the option is still there. Versatility is its own form of advantage.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist
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