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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 22/01/2007 20:10:44 People complaining every day about nearly invincible Nanophoons and the like going 10k/sec and being virtually invincible to anything.
They are right, but Nanos and inertia stabs are not the real problem - snake implants are.
A Phoon with nano setup will go maybe 3k/s, 3,5k or even 4k with rigs and gang mods and still a tad faster with faction equipment.
There is nothing wrong with that imho. You sacrifice conventional tank and damage for speed and still a couple of intys can catch you easily and pin you down and then its game over, same goes for huginns/rapiers maybe paired with an arazu.
You can maybe outrun some intys with expensive rigs and faction gear, which is also ok, as you are fielding expensive equipment that you may lose.
Now look at the same faction fitted phoon with a high grade snake implant in the pilots head. It now goes like 10k/s which is simply over the top for a BS.
There are two problems:
1. You cant catch them any more with intys and huginns. Normal intys without a snake set cant keep up with them and they will drift out of web range due to their own inertia even if quadruple webbed by a huginn.
2. Unlike rigs and faction stuff that is in risk of being lost and might even be looted by the enemy, implants are not in any real risk to be lost.
Those guys simply log off their pod when they lose their ship and keep their fancy snake implants forever. This is wrong and I dont care if it is an exploit or not it is common practise and throws the risk/reward system off balance for these implants.
Sure they cost a couple billion to obtain, but that is no valid argument if they cant be lost in combat.
So nerf snake sets or set a limit to speed bonus for the different ship classes or better even both, what is currently going on out in space with the snake equipped nanoship bandwagon is simply outrageous and has to be stopped.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:13:00 -
[2]
Boo ******* hoo. Nanos and istabs are currently highly overpowered (arguments elsewhere on this forum), just nerfbat them down.
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Idara
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:14:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas Boo ******* hoo. Nanos and istabs are currently highly overpowered (arguments elsewhere on this forum), just nerfbat them down.
Yes EVE needs more kneejerk nerfing.
Don't ******* touch my nanophoon, I just got it up to 5.5km/s without snakes *****es. ---
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Idara Yes EVE needs more kneejerk nerfing.
OK..
1) return old HP values 2) nerf all damages dealt by 75% 3) nerf all forms of tanking, kill passive tanking 4) nerf speeds 5) nerf ranges 6) nerf gangs 7) nerf drones (fix the bugs tho')
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amy Wang Those guys simply log off their pod when they lose their ship and keep their fancy snake implants forever. This is wrong and I dont care if it is an exploit or not it is common practise and throws the risk/reward system off balance for these implants.
You can't be serious. How is logging off in your pod once you have aggression going to save anything? If the pod isn't popped before it can even warp off, well the other team has 15 minutes to get some scanning done. I'd rather take my chances manually warping all over the damn place, especially with a head full of snakes. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Idara
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: Idara Yes EVE needs more kneejerk nerfing.
OK..
1) return old HP values 2) nerf all damages dealt by 75% 3) nerf all forms of tanking, kill passive tanking 4) nerf speeds 5) nerf ranges 6) nerf gangs 7) nerf drones (fix the bugs tho')
Huh? How was the careful incremental increase in HPs a kneejerk reaction to wanting to prolong combat because it was always over so quickly? When/why would damage need to be decreased if you did reduce HPs again? Damage was never touched. Passive tanking, EANMs are annoying...they already nerfed ranges with the sniper nerf, but doing that ammo nerf really wasn't needed with the WCS nerf IMO. ---
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:27:00 -
[7]
I think a normal stacking penalty for speed and agility/mass mods would do nicely. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Rachel Vend
Gallente Zend Insurance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:33:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Rachel Vend on 22/01/2007 20:32:42 The solution
I think you are forgetting that a high grade snake set costs over 2 billion ISK.
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Valandril on 22/01/2007 20:30:18 What is the problem with inter nerf ?
Not every nanodominix, nanophoon go for 10km/s, hell most of them go for around 3km/s. This is so bad ? Nope, this is killable. Snake set break that speedmargin between something normal and nonsence, but thats ok as long u will allow us to kill that snakeset, because its true that he will just logoff to save his set. ----------------- Flamedrone II belonging to Valandril perfectly strikes you, wrecking your topic.
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Gamesguy
Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Beef Hardslab
Originally by: Amy Wang Those guys simply log off their pod when they lose their ship and keep their fancy snake implants forever. This is wrong and I dont care if it is an exploit or not it is common practise and throws the risk/reward system off balance for these implants.
You can't be serious. How is logging off in your pod once you have aggression going to save anything? If the pod isn't popped before it can even warp off, well the other team has 15 minutes to get some scanning done. I'd rather take my chances manually warping all over the damn place, especially with a head full of snakes.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You log as soon as your ship explodes to save the pod(it warps before they can lock you), then immediately log back on and manually warp to random celestials while making multiple SS.
You CANNOT lock down a pod that just logged back on and warps immediately unless you have a bubble, and if you do he can just continuously relog, never giving you a chance to probe him down.
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gamesguy You have no idea what you're talking about. You log as soon as your ship explodes to save the pod(it warps before they can lock you), then immediately log back on and manually warp to random celestials while making multiple SS.
You CANNOT lock down a pod that just logged back on and warps immediately unless you have a bubble, and if you do he can just continuously relog, never giving you a chance to probe him down.
Smartbombs ftw then I guess, apparently that'd be your only shot. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Idara
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shadowsword I think a normal stacking penalty for speed and agility/mass mods would do nicely.
Istabs already get a stacking nerf, 3 is the most you can put on before you get barely any benefit, just like any other module (Heatsink, Hardener etc.), only thing that isn't penalized with stacking are the nanofibres, but base speed is about 277m/s on my fit, which really isn't that quick.
Everything's in the MWD. ---
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aramendel on 22/01/2007 20:50:09
Originally by: Rachel Vend I think you are forgetting that a high grade snake set costs over 2 billion ISK.
You do not really need them for 4.5 km/s nanoBS. A moderate investment of maybe 200 mil does this just fine.
Originally by: Idara Istabs already get a stacking nerf
The mass bonus of them does, the agility bonus of them (and nanos) doesn't. Flagging it for the stacking penality would almost half the agility of a 6 nano/instab setup and would prolly go a LONG way to balance those setups.
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hangnoose
Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 21:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: hangnoose on 22/01/2007 21:35:24 Don't forget the faction and officer 100mn MWD's + the claymore and it's speed booster mods =P
You pay alot, you get alot. If people can afford all these high named officer faction gear, why not let them use it in piece.
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hattifnatt
Gallente The Movement
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Posted - 2007.01.22 21:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rachel Vend Edited by: Rachel Vend on 22/01/2007 20:32:42 The solution
I think you are forgetting that a high grade snake set costs over 2 billion ISK.
You win this thread!
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:21:00 -
[16]
Usually in this game you pay a lot for improvements that are merely incremental. So it gives you an edge, but that's it, and you're taking a huge risk of losing it all.
The Snake and Crystal sets at least seem to break those rules. (I'm not very familiar with the other ones.)
Of course I'm poor, so probably biased. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rachel Vend Edited by: Rachel Vend on 22/01/2007 20:32:42 The solution
I think you are forgetting that a high grade snake set costs over 2 billion ISK.
L O L
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:31:00 -
[18]
Cut the low-grade bonus in half and make the high-grade bonus equal to the current low-grade bonus. Fixed.
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Idara
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:33:00 -
[19]
So this has moved onto nerfing Snake implants?
Wasn't the whole *****y deal focused on Crystals a few months back? "OMG THEY'RE OVAPOWAHED!" ---
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Idara So this has moved onto nerfing Snake implants?
Wasn't the whole *****y deal focused on Crystals a few months back? "OMG THEY'RE OVAPOWAHED!"
They're pretty much all overpowered. Halo and Talisman might be ok, but they also give a lower percentage bonus than the Snake, Crystal and Slave sets.
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Retnik
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:46:00 -
[21]
They aren't overpowered neither are snake implants. There just aren't any reliable counters to excessive speed in this game. How about making web drones worth using or maybe adding a mobile web bubble (maybe dictor launched?). The solution to every problem shouldn't always be nerf it into oblivion. Just look at t2 webs, they are a joke even if they were introduced into the game (-80% @ 10km). _______________________________________
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:46:00 -
[22]
It's kinda sad how few people actually read the posts before saying, NO #$$# way.
The mods even moved a post here from general discussion without reading it. "It was a joke not comment about nanos" the thing was 5 sentences long. __________________________ Why babelfish is bad mmm k "which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside" |
Imperil
Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:49:00 -
[23]
A Machariel with faction fitt, snake set ++ random speed implants and gang mod goes about 22km/s.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 23:03:00 -
[24]
Has anyone ever tried a nanonightmare? Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.22 23:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: j0sephine on 22/01/2007 23:22:20
"They are right, but Nanos and inertia stabs are not the real problem - snake implants are."
It's oversimplification, am afraid... there isn't single aspect that you can point finger at and complain "here *this* and *only* this is what needs the hit with lead pipe". More specifically:
* heavy set of low slot regular (non faction) speed modules roughly doubles the base speed of ship running regular mwd. Cost: ability to tank damage * replacement of speed modules with faction/named mods, and addition of speed rigs: further doubles the speed of the ship. Cost: ISK, rig slots * addition of snake implant set and assorted speed hardwiring gear: further increase of speed, in range of 1.5-2x factor. Cost: ISK, hardwiring slots
... it's the factors combined together that add to the full issue. The 'solution' can be done two ways -- either each factor is modified slightly, or one (or two) factors are hit harder. Asking to nerf the implants is goint for the latter approach, however i believe you're targetting the worst possible factor here.
Why? Because hitting implants affects equally small, medium and large ships. While it's generally acknowledged it's the battleship-sized vessels zooming around with ridiculous speed that are problematic. And these ships tend to get relatively most bang out of stacking the speed modules in their low slots, when compared to small ones.
So perhaps if your goal was to adjust the ability of battleships to achieve high speeds by hitting one of problematic factors rather than all of them, then the least collateral damage (i.e. affecting ships smaller than the ones targetted) would be done by changing the speed modules so they have little (if any) effect on large ships, even if stacked. This would take out 2 factors out of 3 -- as faction mods would have similar, next to none effect on large ships. A pilot sporting snake set and hardwiring would still get some speed increase out of these, but it'd be generally limited to effect one currently gets simply from cramming their low slots with cheap nanos and i-stabs. Which given the price of these sets is quite fair return of investment, imo.
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Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:02:00 -
[26]
Let me get this right Amy:
You want to nerf the Snake implants? (I paid a better part of a Billion ISK for a LG set, this was and is, to make my Crow a real killer. Notice that I said Crow, and realise perhaps from that, that not all snake implanted clones are purpose-built for nano-BS)
Now...
The reason you want to nerf snake implants as a whole is because as you put it (in bold, I might add) "implants are not in any real risk to be lost".
Implants aren't in a risk to be lost? This is what your argument is depending on?
For that to be true, I would have to be a truly exceptional individual in Eve. As someone who plays the game by the rules and in the spirit it was intended I can tell you now, the first thing I'm thinking about when my Crow goes down, isn't "Oh dear another Faction Crow destroyed". Not at all. I'm thinking something along the lines of "WARP MOTHER****** WARP". I'm someone who can go on record as already having lost a set of snakes in a fair played and quite enjoyable if short-lived inty 1v1.
But let's just assume I'm as normal as I actually think I am, not as abnormal as you'd like to think.
So...what about the countless others out there just like me? You know, people who just play the game, rather than powergame it with borderline tactics and lowest-common-denomiator nonsense?
I'm all for seeing the bigger picture, I really am. And I'll take a nerf to my gameplay if it helps the broader good of the game. But really, I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture here. Not everyone logs to save pods, and factoring entire gameplay changes around the idea of it being safe to assume that everyone does is somewhat problematic.
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Forum Troll
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:21:00 -
[27]
Nerf Nanos, Nerf Stabs, Nerf Implants, Nerf Riggings.
That is all.
Thank you.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.23 00:28:00 -
[28]
Heh...A well fitted autopest rips apart most nano BSes.
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Durethia
Momentum. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.23 01:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nooey Let me get this right Amy:
You want to nerf the Snake implants? (I paid a better part of a Billion ISK for a LG set, this was and is, to make my Crow a real killer. Notice that I said Crow, and realise perhaps from that, that not all snake implanted clones are purpose-built for nano-BS)
Thank you. I was going to mention that one of the things I find most reasonable is a full grade Snake set for Deimos pilots. Along with other Gallente Blaster boats like the Enyo, Astarte, Megathron et al.
Because frankly, CCP makes these vessels way too slow.
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Lakotnik
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Posted - 2007.01.23 01:54:00 -
[30]
If nano BS waits to die of course. Smile, tomorrow will be worse. |
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