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FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 18/12/2006 22:11:48 How does the community feel about this? I have petitioned it and a GM is looking into it. do you feel it should be considered an exploit, or is this fair game?
IAC/allies has taken to sitting outside POS in f4r2 and waiting for pilots to log off. These pilots have waited out any combat aggression they may have had, and many of them never combat aggressed to begin with. As soon as the pilot logs they begin a scan using probes, and utilize the results to destroy the enemy pilot before their ship dissapears from space.
Generally, you can no longer log off unless your docked in station, without having both your ship and pod destroyed. I find the practice detestable, and have asked friendlies not to engage in the practice. A combat aggrod enemy who logs is certainly fair game, but probing down and killing a non-aggrod enemy who is going to bed for the night seems like an abuse of game rules, bordering on griefing, and an exploit. What are your thoughts?
Yes, probes allow for this to happen post-kali, but should they? The entire point of the game-system is to allow pilots to logoff safely, but create risk for pilots logging off with a combat timer (see: cyvok incident).
Is this an exploit? should it be fixed? how should it be fixed? thoughts welcome! No flames, please. This is NOT an mc/iss/iac/lv/ra/goonfleet/fix thread. bawk!
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:16:00 -
[2]
Well obviously the system isn't DESIGNED to be used like that but an obvious consequence of the new recon launcher is that it's possible to probe and kill someone inside of the two minute "safe" logoff timer.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Tetani Iradani
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:16:00 -
[3]
Hmm, I'm not sure.
Its a detestable, and cowardly tactic, thats for sure. But then again, if your foolish enough to log-off in a system with potential hostiles in.
Why not simply move to an empty system, and then log? If you cant because the gates are camped.. then it just sounds like a method of avoiding combat.
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Montaire
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:19:00 -
[4]
That is NOT an exploit, its game mechanics.
Stations are a serious advantage. I'd reccomend docking if you want to be safe from this.
Isnt there a station nearby ?
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:19:00 -
[5]
Going back to Ultima Online days, if you logged anywhere (other than in an Inn, or at your House) you would remain visible for a few minutes.
People got ganked, but noone really complained. But I guess UO never had a way of searching for people.
Eve though, I guess innocent logging should be insta-vanish. But logging in combat, you should stay visible until your 15 minute aggro timer expires.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Califax Oman
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:20:00 -
[6]
I would not call it an exploit... more of an oversight by CCP and unintended game mechs. I agree 100% that if you have agro, you are fair game for a good probing but if the changes to scan probes have enabled people to scan otherwise "safe" ships that have logged out after waiting for the timer to die it should be an issue CCP looks at.
Even with the ability to use maintence bays in POS's when you log your pod out with no timer you should not have to worry about waking up in a station after you wait out agro.
While we are on the subject, a visable agro timer in 0.0 would be really really nice.
*** Sig Starts Here
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m283/Mimic-G/Califax-Final.jpg
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Krav
Egad Inc. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tetani Iradani Why not simply move to an empty system, and then log? If you cant because the gates are camped.. then it just sounds like a method of avoiding combat.
That's unfair of you -- people have real lives and they need to leave the game. They can't control that 100%. Thus they wait their 15 minute aggro timer and log out for any 1 of a million reasons in real life.
And to say it's their fault the interruption came when they were camped in the system, doesn't agree with me at all.
I believe this should be changed. Krav =====
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:25:00 -
[8]
POSes should be safe to login IMO. Wouldn't necessarily call it an exploit though.
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Cheese999
Minmatar Spitefully Targeting Foolishly Underskilled The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:25:00 -
[9]
Eject from your ship before logging. Your pod will just "dissapear" -----
There is no Spoon Minmatar: Bending over for Tux since RmR |
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:27:00 -
[10]
Go log off in a station then, there's quite a few for MC,LV,ISS,<insert bandwagon>... to dock at. Hell, there's one right NEXT door.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/12/2006 22:28:56 You should be safe if you log in a POS with no aggro timer, to be honest.
While IAC has a point, if this practice was allowed in general it would result in catastrophic gamebreaking problems across EVE.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (Temporarily down) |
FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:30:00 -
[12]
im not complaining on behalf of my guys, iac:) we have places to log, ect. this is NOT about the current conflict, but the game mechanics. as stated by the original post
bawk
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:32:00 -
[13]
I actually thought I had a solution. I anchored a medium bubble just below the pos, so that people could log off in the warp bubble AND in the pos. I assumed the ship would sit in the warp bubble until the 2 min(?) timer was up and then dissapear. apparently ships that log off in a warp bubble warp as normal.
which of course is an entirely seperate, and equally annoying, issue:-p
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:33:00 -
[14]
Then you really need to remove "names" from the OP Fowl. All that is going to do is stir people up even though you made a disclaimer.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Megas Alkaia
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:34:00 -
[15]
They should make ships logged out in a POS shield not emergency warp off, that would pretty much fix any issue I have with this.
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:34:00 -
[16]
I'd say this is fair game. Even if a pilot isn't aggroed it doesn't mean they are harmless. How many times has someone had an alt sitting in a SS in a shuttle providing intelligence info to someone else? They can log in, check local and the gates, then log off risk free. They can also pop in at anytime and scare up the miners. The whole system goes on red alert and all the other person does is login and back out.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:36:00 -
[17]
all you mc do is whine huh? If you aren't popping a hard one off some stupid blob you've assembled your whining like a prat about how you died and it's unfair.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:38:00 -
[18]
Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 18/12/2006 22:39:24
Originally by: Tribunal Then you really need to remove "names" from the OP Fowl. All that is going to do is stir people up even though you made a disclaimer.
your absolutely right. fixed. bawk! :) <3
Originally by: Murukan all you mc do is whine huh? If you aren't popping a hard one off some stupid blob you've assembled your whining like a prat about how you died and it's unfair.
again, this is not meant to be flamebait. as asked in the OP, keep it clean. i myself have lost no ships this contract (knock on wood:)?) and have no personal stake in this. Im simply concerned about the game mechanics of it
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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Traxio Nacho
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tribunal Then you really need to remove "names" from the OP Fowl. All that is going to do is stir people up even though you made a disclaimer.
Fowl has done now.
But it is a good question is this intended?
Surely logging off in a POS with no aggro timer and then being able to be probed out wasn't planned?
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Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:42:00 -
[20]
umm there is a reason you stay in space for a bit when you log off. So yes it probably is planned. How else could you catch those barges or haulers that log
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Stud Longcock
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:42:00 -
[21]
Wow, here I thought login traps were lame...
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Chaimera
Grumpy Old Farts
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:44:00 -
[22]
I would hope that is an unintended design feature.
This seems to make almost impossible for both invading and defending players to not be able to log out safely for whatever reason in camped systems.
Beware of the killer grumpies! |
Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:45:00 -
[23]
The simple solution is to make logging at a POS not warp you out.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Originally by: Tribunal Then you really need to remove "names" from the OP Fowl. All that is going to do is stir people up even though you made a disclaimer.
Fowl has done now.
But it is a good question is this intended?
Surely logging off in a POS with no aggro timer and then being able to be probed out wasn't planned?
Thanks Fowl.
Is it intended? Well, us players can not answer that of course, but I have to say that I do not disagree with it too much.
As someone said earlier it makes having and using a station more important with system conflicts. Logging out in space should never be a "safe" option no matter where it is done.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Thor Xian The simple solution is to make logging at a POS not warp you out.
The more convoluted solution is to warp to the POS, then log while you're in warp. If I read the rumor correctly, this SHOULD leave you sitting at the POS and won't emergency warp you. ----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |
Traxio Nacho
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chaimera I would hope that is an unintended design feature.
This seems to make almost impossible for both invading and defending players to not be able to log out safely for whatever reason in camped systems.
Exactly you can understand if you have an aggro timer or even if you logged at a safe but logging at what you think is a safe place.
Also if it is intend then no problem but would be nice of them to mention it somewhere
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zacuis
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:54:00 -
[27]
yeah this thread will just turn into a flame fest but i think u shouldnt wrp out if u in a pos bubble
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Kharakan
Amarr Morticus Impendium
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Stud Longcock Wow, here I thought login traps were lame...
Well, this is sort of a logout trap
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Irrilian
Eve University
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:59:00 -
[29]
What is an exploit other than taking advantage in a bug/flaw of the game design to gain some advantage/reward.
This is an oversight by CCP of the implification of the much faster results obtained from the new probe system.
The time for ships without an aggro timer to disapear from space needs to be reduced. However in concert with this, they need to implement a means to counter log off exploits etc.
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Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:03:00 -
[30]
maybe this is so there is an actual advantage to having the station instead of just huddling in a pos? You shouldn't be 100% safe if your ship is in space, deal with it
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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