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Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:04:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 18/12/2006 23:08:13
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Originally by: Tribunal Then you really need to remove "names" from the OP Fowl. All that is going to do is stir people up even though you made a disclaimer.
Fowl has done now.
But it is a good question is this intended?
Surely logging off in a POS with no aggro timer and then being able to be probed out wasn't planned?
I am afraid this works as intended.
Read this post (Post nr.20).
This post foretells exactly the effect the OP is describing.
This is almost half a year old, and TomB read through this thread, as you can see by him replying to other issues people came up with.
Yet, even though he very likely read about these concerns, nothing was done to prevent this from happening. This leads me to the conclusion that all works as intended.
In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey. |
OrangeAfroMan
Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:07:00 -
[32]
Fair game it's completely within the game mechanics
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Scoutzorz
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:09:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Scoutzorz on 18/12/2006 23:10:11 ok the real problem ehre is due to the change in probes, which for the most part is a fantasic change. It's probably notstricktly an exploit but is somthing that could use changing very quickly.
Personally the whole "warp off from pos" logout has always seemed strange but never been a very dangerous side effect. It also leans in favor of the login traps because attacking forces have no idea how many are logged off in\100k from the pos.
My solution - Ships don't warp out of a pos on logout but they get absorbed into the control tower. Highlighting the control tower will show how many of each type of ship is logged off in there.
Should a control tower get destroyed then the normal loot rules determines whether whole ships\modules or nothing survives the assault.
Anyone think good\bad?
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FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:09:00 -
[34]
gee SOD, think you fellows need to keep it impersonal.
this could just as easily happen anywhere in eve. It has 0 to do with our current conflict; now is just the first time post kali its been found. the implications throughout eve would be far reaching. People live in POS. People crash. People get camped in system and can not dock. People have real life things to do, like put kids to bed, or make themselves a sandwhich.
Im asking my buds in MC not to use this tactic unless CCP declares it to be a valid way of killing someone. if it is, I can assure you, the MC have plenty of well trained covops and recon characters ready to busy a logoff spot near you. Until then, I can only assume this is an unintentional game 'feature', and so must refrain from using it.
I dont care about IAC doing it. Its do-able by the game rules atm, and thus fair game. They are welcome to continue. Ive mass-mailed alliance heads about it, and pilots are now aware of the risks.
What I am concerned about is if this should be a game feature, or if it should not. Are there simple solutions? Is it an exploit, or a bug? Was it intended? these are the questions I ask, and should be answered by CCP. You fellows seem to feel that every thread with an MC member in it deserves flaming attention. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your ethical sense. bawk
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:11:00 -
[35]
up 2 posts there's your answer!
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Murukan maybe this is so there is an actual advantage to having the station instead of just huddling in a pos? You shouldn't be 100% safe if your ship is in space, deal with it
Since when is a POS = 100% safe?
Isn't the point of a POS to have a field base (not talking about the whole sovereignty mechanic) to operate out of?
This likely won't ever happen to me, but if it did, I'd be a little ****ed. Logging from a gate camp is one thing, logging from a POS is another.
Personally, I think the combat flag should be initiated the second you get aggressed or you aggress someone else. That way targets you are actually shooting at dont just disappear. That way logging peacefully at a POS wont be just another means of escape (and if someone gets to their POS and waits out the timer...so what? That is why they put up a POS in the first place, relative safety).
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:12:00 -
[37]
The whole issue is a side effect of the new more efficent probing system.
Imho no player that is forced to leave the game for rl reasons (or even choses so without need) should be forced to lose his/her ship because of that issue, thats just wrong. Same goes for disconnects because of random reasons.
On the other hand, people bypassing bubbles by logging in them is a nuisance that should be adressed.
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Vando
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:12:00 -
[38]
The simple solution is to log in a station. And no crying about how 'but but if I have a RL emergency', if its that much of an emergency you can't get to a friendly station you can bloody well lose a damn toy spaceship :)
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Patch Esquire
Di-Tron Light Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:17:00 -
[39]
As is EVE life. You arn't safe anywhere except docked in a station- if you choose to log out in space, thats a risk you're taking.
Its a cheap tactic, but by no means an exploit. ----------------------------------------------- If you're reading this, Patch86 was too lazy to select his main.
Again. |
Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Vando The simple solution is to log in a station. And no crying about how 'but but if I have a RL emergency', if its that much of an emergency you can't get to a friendly station you can bloody well lose a damn toy spaceship :)
There are alot of small corps that live out of 1 or 2 pos's in remote area's of space. Pos's should be a reasonably safe location to logout at.
Logging at a station 30 jumps into the center of bob\d2\lv\etc space ain't as easy as it sounds
Logging in space should of course leave you vulnerable no matter what.
-----
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Dr Einkeisel
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:20:00 -
[41]
Well... The orginal conception of the 2 miniute cool down was to stop people instantly jumping and logging I belive, since the probe system has changed and it is now possible to scan down very quickly how do you come to the conclusion that this is a intended game mechanic. If you log off with aggro and die fair play you have been stupid, but if somone is going to bed they should be able to log off from the game in realitive saftey. I personaly dont think its a intented side effect of the new probing system and probaly will be changed.
logging off at a POS = Stupid logging off docked = stupid
Warping off to deep safe then logging probaly the best idea.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:20:00 -
[42]
The POS itself is enough of a vunerability.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Mr. Orange
Gallente Band of Freelancers
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:22:00 -
[43]
Here is an idea; don't log out in a POS. Warp away towards some planets, then warp to a deep safe to throw off the people that are waiting for you to log out. By the time they figure out what you did and change up their probes, your timer will have probably run out and their scan be for nothing.
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Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:28:00 -
[44]
Would be good to have official word if this is an oversight of the new scanning system or if it is an intended game mechanic so all can use it with impunity.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:33:00 -
[45]
lets see if I understand you...
People go to a POS and log, the ship then warps to a near safespot and the vanish timer starts... at wich time the ship is tracked down by hostiles and destroyed.
That about the gist of it?
My only question is why would the ship warp out of the POS?
Rather than asking the devs to have this demed as an exploit ask for the game mechanics to change so that a ship secure inside a POS defense perimeter does not warp off at logoff.
For example they would create a anchoring structure that you can tether your ship to, if you are tethered your ship will not warp off and you are safe...ish.
As for it being an exploit... no, its not but if it works like I outline above then it does need looking into.
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Bas4x4
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:38:00 -
[46]
There is a very simple ingame solution. It is called a "Ship maintenance arrays". Only way you loose you ship from it is when a corp mate steals it or when the POS gets destroyed.
Regards Bas.
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Adam C
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:39:00 -
[47]
/me longs for the days when you could just log off to take a ****
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BlackHorizon
Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 18/12/2006 22:37:33 Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 18/12/2006 22:11:48 I have had several reports and killmails sent to me regarding covops sitting outside POS in f4r2 and waiting for pilots to log off. These pilots have waited out any combat aggression they may have had, and many of them never combat aggressed to begin with. As soon as the pilot logs they begin a scan using probes, and utilize the results to destroy the enemy pilot before their ship dissapears from space.
That's cute, maybe I should try that. So far, I've only killed people with timers.
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Gray Carmicheal
Wings of Redemption
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:48:00 -
[49]
Or they could simply remove the ability to logoff if combat aggroed.
This way you have to wait the timer out to log.
Yes, it's brutal, but it would solve the logging issue once and for all. Ranis by Trey The 12 Days Of EVE |
Irrilian
Eve University
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Bas4x4 There is a very simple ingame solution. It is called a "Ship maintenance arrays". Only way you loose you ship from it is when a corp mate steals it or when the POS gets destroyed.
Except that rather than loosing your ship, you just loose your pod as after you store your ship in the array and log, your pod, which is left outside the array when you store a ship, will perform an emergency warp and hang about in space for a little while.
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Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gray Carmicheal Or they could simply remove the ability to logoff if combat aggroed.
This way you have to wait the timer out to log.
Yes, it's brutal, but it would solve the logging issue once and for all.
This is for non aggrod pilots, you're still in space for a little while 1 mil km from where you logged and vulnerable to being scanned down and killed if in a small enough ship.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:02:00 -
[52]
Black... good work in making people think about this.
When the POS system is fixed and our guns actually fire at hostiles with bad standing with they bring 500 people to take out our POS instead of sitting there doing NOTHING and exploiting server strain *cough epxloiting LV cough exploiting MC cough exploiting ISS cough exploiting Veto. cough exploiting FIX* then maybe they should look into certain game mechanics being changed.
Until then... I will be buying MORE scan probes for our plentiful covert ops teams and awaiting to see which hostile, LV or MC, loose their mothership to us this way.
btw fowl... <3 much respect to you and strad. for the fights in f4 so far.
Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
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Elendar
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:08:00 -
[53]
what if this is how cyvok's titan was caught, should it then be given back because of this?
Originally by: ph33rf4ct0ry Xirt must be one of the GREAT leaders in eve to keep you guys shooting shuttles in hophib
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:08:00 -
[54]
a safe way to have u guys logging out would b to log out with some1 scrambling you outside of the pos, so u stay there for 15 mins and simply disappear.
just gotta make sure that u have fleets nearby to react if the enemie decides to take a shot at ur offline scrambled ship.
and ya, i think its stupid and gamebreaking, ccp should find a fix for this. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:10:00 -
[55]
How the hell could you even consider this an exploit, mc getting pawned? -=====-
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FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:17:00 -
[56]
1) this is not about the mc conflict. again. if you want to see conflict statistics, go here. if you want to discuss the conflict, there are around 6 threads in the corp and alliance discussion section.
I am not saying its an exploit. Im not saying it should/should not be one. THis is an open forum for discussion of the topic.
after reading this thread, my own conclusion is that its not an exploit, but an oversight. hopefully a dev will read this thread and confirm, as well as explain any fix's for this they may/may not decide on.
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:20:00 -
[57]
Sounds utterly lame, not surprisingly I see a lot of ganker outfits supporting the practise.
It doesn't exactly help in getting people to settle in the outer systems.
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Murukan
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: FowlPlayChiken 1) this is not about the mc conflict. again. if you want to see conflict statistics, go here. if you want to discuss the conflict, there are around 6 threads in the corp and alliance discussion section.
I am not saying its an exploit. Im not saying it should/should not be one. THis is an open forum for discussion of the topic.
after reading this thread, my own conclusion is that its not an exploit, but an oversight. hopefully a dev will read this thread and confirm, as well as explain any fix's for this they may/may not decide on.
how is it an oversight? Your idiot pilots logged with a timer black said so himself. They deserved to lose their ships
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Dr Einkeisel
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:26:00 -
[59]
I fully agree if you log with the aggro timer you should die. But if you die within the 2 mins cooldown thats an oversight.
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Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: FowlPlayChiken 1) this is not about the mc conflict. again. if you want to see conflict statistics, go here. if you want to discuss the conflict, there are around 6 threads in the corp and alliance discussion section.
I am not saying its an exploit. Im not saying it should/should not be one. THis is an open forum for discussion of the topic.
after reading this thread, my own conclusion is that its not an exploit, but an oversight. hopefully a dev will read this thread and confirm, as well as explain any fix's for this they may/may not decide on.
how is it an oversight? Your idiot pilots logged with a timer black said so himself. They deserved to lose their ships
He also has kills against pilots who were not on a timer as they said so themselves.
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