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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
210
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:43:33 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a71h3/fleet_warp_qa_with_ccp_larrikin_and_spectre_fleet/
So thats CSMX Jaynex post summarizing Ccp Larking recent audio meeting with Csm members and the Worm Hole community abiut fleet warp nerf.
Wow What do you guys think about his responses and answers?
Reddits on fire, pitchforks in air.
What you guys think about ccp larkins meeting with csm and WH audio community????
Im just like "wooow is he for real?" |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2568
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Posted - 2015.06.18 13:56:34 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Larkin confirmed for Greyscale 2.0.
Hopefully he quits to work for riot. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13462
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Posted - 2015.06.18 14:04:25 -
[3] - Quote
Lol, wow. He was NOT prepared for that interview.
It all keeps coming back to bombers, no matter how much they deny it, huh? I said it in the official thread, and I'll say it here.
If you want to nerf bombers, then nerf bombers, don't screw up a bunch of other things in the process.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Wacktopia
Noir. No Not Believing
796
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Posted - 2015.06.18 14:07:58 -
[4] - Quote
Broadcast to arbitrary location was a good suggestion. Being able to broadcast a probe result could work.
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
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Oracle of Machina
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
16
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Posted - 2015.06.18 14:18:15 -
[5] - Quote
I have to wonder if he's played EvE before. This is not a well-thought out change, nor well-planned for, and his ideas are even worse.
For a massive null organization, this makes things slightly harder, but it makes small-gang and small-corp operations significantly harder for no real gain, without addressing the problem at all: lack of player input. And that's just the fleet-warp issue.
If we want to get into the problem of forcing people manually piloting a ship, it becomes a tricky but not insurmountable proposition as a DPS ship in a fleet, but becomes almost completely unmanageable as a logi pilot. You're already fully engaged as logi, forcing them to then pilot a ship makes it a very big problem. While this might not be such a huge deal for experienced logi pilots, for new ones it becomes an overwhelming task.
If, in the distant future, it becomes simpler and actually intuitive to move around under manual control in space, I'll revise my opinion. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
210
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Posted - 2015.06.18 14:20:52 -
[6] - Quote
I likw his long term goal of "removing orbit and keep at range and make manual piloting mandatory"
1HZ server ticks bro.
One second ticks |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
887
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Posted - 2015.06.18 14:56:53 -
[7] - Quote
I do not support this product or service at this time. Its a big we want to do this this way but we dont have all the parts. oh well lets do it anyway.
anyway seems like theres somthing bad happening at CCP HQ and they are trying to disract us
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11437
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Posted - 2015.06.18 15:06:08 -
[8] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:CCP Larkin confirmed for Greyscale 2.0.
Hopefully he quits to work for riot.
That's the 1st thing I thought lol. |
Hipqo
Project AIice Whatever.
129
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Posted - 2015.06.18 15:17:51 -
[9] - Quote
Im happy they want to change the meta in EVE, but personally im not sure this is the right way to do it. Time will tell, how this playes out. I just really hope they keep WH peeps in mind, when doing these fleet warp changes.
A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
264
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Posted - 2015.06.18 15:48:16 -
[10] - Quote
So, you finally noticed CCP has thrown in the towel. Hilmar is playing corporate weenie. I hope they enjoy their new digs.
Long live the profit motive!! It rules all things!! Hail profit!! Hail profit!!
I survived Win95
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
458
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Posted - 2015.06.18 16:38:58 -
[11] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:Its a big we want to do this this way but we dont have all the parts. oh well lets do it anyway. This tbh.
Things is: I'm pretty sure I've seen this in the past... but I can't quite seem to remember where I saw it?
Hmmm... let me sit down in my CQ for a bit to think about it... |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
685
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Posted - 2015.06.18 16:50:22 -
[12] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:I likw his long term goal of "removing orbit and keep at range and make manual piloting mandatory"
1HZ server ticks bro.
One second ticks This. EvE is not a space flight simulator it never was and never should be.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
the troll bridge
21962
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Posted - 2015.06.18 17:29:07 -
[13] - Quote
I don't want to add constructively to a CAM/P Dramathread, but that interview showed exactly how well thought out this change was.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
299
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Posted - 2015.06.18 18:43:44 -
[14] - Quote
Bomb radius apart from the neut and ecm bombs set to 5km instead of 15km.
Bombers fixed, thank me later. |
Sakurako Kimino
Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass
17
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Posted - 2015.06.18 19:23:57 -
[15] - Quote
these fleet warp changes are really bad. in fact i think it might be a cash grab, your an fc your going to need a new alt for warp to.
eve is about sin
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Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
491
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:09:20 -
[16] - Quote
I don't see removing fleet warps as a bad thing, on the surface, but accommodations should be made.
First: Fleet Bookmarks.. allow the fleet boss or such to share bookmarks with the fleet, this allowing them to all manually warp to the same spots, without needing extra alts, and nuking the advantage of single corp fleets. Either synced in real time, OR set ahead of time, any "new" locations would not be synced, and you'd need to use the proposed scout tactic. Alternatively, allow BM's to be shared in chat, same way overviews can be, so people can quickly share them with the fleet.
Second: Fleet setting to limit warpspeed to slowest ship in Squad/Wing/Fleet. This will keep everyone landing at close to the same time, +/- your reaction time of clicking warp on the bookmark or whatever. You can opt out same way you can exempt from fleet warp now.
I figure those two things would make this change much better, and not punish small groups and mixed-corp fleets. |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
889
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Posted - 2015.06.18 20:16:07 -
[17] - Quote
From what I got from the interview it would be months before they can release any changes to the bookmarks.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2015.06.18 21:39:05 -
[18] - Quote
So I'm confused by all of this, someone please explain/elaborate for me (long hard day at work, cut me some slack )
Do these prospective changes to fleet warp mechanics mean that fleet Squad leaders can no longer warp their fleet together? To elaborate for less confusion I'll use a real-world example of my play style: In my 3-man fleet consisting of my main and 2 alts I usually align all my ships to what I want to warp my fleet to (gates, belts, stations, etc.) and once they're all aligned I use my main who usually flies a Command Ship to "warp squad to __km/m". Sometimes if I passively gatecamp to setup an ambush on solo passersby, I'll create a bookmark and sit a good distance off the gate, pouncing and tackling when the moment is right."
Will people like me still be able to do this? The "warp squad to __km/m" command is absolutely essential for people like me who hunt solo in lowsec using a main with some alts. Hell, its really practical when simply flying my fleet from point A to point B after my 3 ships are all aligned.
If I have to warp my squad leader to the location first before warping the other 2 ships in, it severely hinders the ability to rapidly engage and pursue potential victims approaching a gate or anom, not to mention making my main toon as FC severely vulnerable if he has to arrive on-scene solo and wait for me to warp my other 2 ships in. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1837
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:25:35 -
[19] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:I likw his long term goal of "removing orbit and keep at range and make manual piloting mandatory"
1HZ server ticks bro.
One second ticks
Yeah, and we already have PI and the hacking minigame for click-fest lovers, no need to turn every fleet into... FC: "Okay fleet, follow me" Everyone: click click click click...
I'll be gone from this game before that.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
197
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:45:03 -
[20] - Quote
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:So I'm confused by all of this, someone please explain/elaborate for me (long hard day at work, cut me some slack ) Do these prospective changes to fleet warp mechanics mean that fleet Squad leaders can no longer warp their fleet together? To elaborate for less confusion I'll use a real-world example of my play style: In my 3-man fleet consisting of my main and 2 alts I usually align all my ships to what I want to warp my fleet to (gates, belts, stations, etc.) and once they're all aligned I use my main who usually flies a Command Ship to "warp squad to __km/m". Sometimes if I passively gatecamp to setup an ambush on solo passersby, I'll create a bookmark and sit a good distance off the gate, pouncing and tackling when the moment is right." Will people like me still be able to do this? The "warp squad to __km/m" command is absolutely essential for people like me who hunt solo in lowsec using a main with some alts. Hell, its really practical when simply flying my fleet from point A to point B after my 3 ships are all aligned. If I have to warp my squad leader to the location first before warping the other 2 ships in, it severely hinders the ability to rapidly engage and pursue potential victims approaching a gate or anom, not to mention making my main toon as FC severely vulnerable if he has to arrive on-scene solo and wait for me to warp my other 2 ships in.
As it stands now, yes - you will still be able to fleet warp to public objects like gates. Just not to probe results, bookmarks, etc |
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38313
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Posted - 2015.06.18 22:54:42 -
[21] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:First: Fleet Bookmarks.. allow the fleet boss or such to share bookmarks with the fleet, this allowing them to all manually warp to the same spots, without needing extra alts, and nuking the advantage of single corp fleets. Either synced in real time, OR set ahead of time, any "new" locations would not be synced, and you'd need to use the proposed scout tactic. Alternatively, allow BM's to be shared in chat, same way overviews can be, so people can quickly share them with the fleet. This has some fairly major downsides that makes it problematic. It would add additional near game breaking power to spies. At the moment, spies can share bookmarks, but there is a fair bit of effort required: copy bookmarks, potentially fly to a location with docking rights for both parties, trade or contract the bookmarks. For a trade, obviously the other person needs to be there at the same time and in any case, needs to fly there to pick up the contracted bookmarks. It's possible to do, but is time consuming and not really possible on the fly.
The ability for an FC to share bookmarks means a spy could drop fleet and form a fleet instantly with someone else and then trade all relevant bookmarks in real time, without even being present in the same system. It would allow bookmarks to be traded even if they've just been made by one fleet in preparing for a fight.
Even worse if they can be traded in a chat window. You wouldn't even need to risk burning the spy in that case. Just open a private chat and copy bookmarks directly to the opposition.
From my perspective, CCP are putting the cart before the horse on this. I don't personally see the problem with keeping the fleet warp mechanics as they are and would rather they stay the same, but that's from the perspective of a small gang FC who doesn't see at all how this change increases participation of fleet members because it just means a scout needs to stay in position longer so the same fleet warp mechanic can be used. The net effect is to just slow the fleet down and reduce the fun.
However, if it has to be changed, then fix the associated systems first (eg. corp bookmark propagation) before breaking something that works. Don't break more stuff and then work on fixing other things. That's just going to **** people off for little to no real benefit in the end, since the intended outcome won't be what happens.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
272
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:15:06 -
[22] - Quote
About what I expected:
Everyone is an expert at Eve except the people who make it.
Once a change is implemented, it can NEVER be reversed.
Don't like what a dev suggests, then he should quit the company because he obviously isn't suited for designing my game.
We want change, but we want nice safe change that isn't scary and won't disrupt my style of gameplay.
Obviously an underhanded scheme by CCP to get more money through more alts because god forbid the FC assign someone in fleet to do a job when he can do it himself.
We're playing a computer game but god forbid we actually use the mouse for half of it.
Unless we cater to the lowest common denominator, our entire fleet is gonna fall apart because nobody can do anything for themselves without the FC and anchor leading them by the ****.
I swear, if you guys were the cure for cancer, I would have told the doctor "no thanks, I'll take my chances". |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38313
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:29:43 -
[23] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:Obviously an underhanded scheme by CCP to get more money through more alts because god forbid the FC assign someone in fleet to do a job when he can do it himself. As a small gang FC, that's not the reason I see it will have a different outcome.
In our fleets of 8-15 people, every person is important. We all fly actively and the concept of the F1 monkey doesn't exist.
So assigning one member of the fleet to be the lonewolf warp in point, right at engagement range for an opposition becomes not only a thankless task (they'll be reshipping a lot and potentially finding themselves many jumps away in a new clone), it also changes their entire role in the fleet because they'll also have to be the combat prober for the fleet, in order for them to warp onto a lot of targets in the first place.
As a FC, my role isn't to reduce the fun for my fleet members, nor expose them to a suicide role when that role could easily be taken by a cloaky alt; which then doesn't affect the composition of the fleet in terms of its combat ability.
If someone else wants to perform that role on an alt, no problem. Delegation of roles in fleets often increases fun for everyone. But I'm not going to make someone else perform the role if they don't want to. I'll just take an extra alt myself and continue to try to provide as much fun and content for my fleet as possible.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Richard Bong
Hole Violence Whole Squid
65
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Posted - 2015.06.18 23:43:13 -
[24] - Quote
"HEY GUYS LETS GET RID OF THE ABILITY TO FLEET WARP TO BOOKMARKS EVEN THOUGH OUR BOOKMARK SYSTEM TAKES 5 MINS+ TO PROPAGATE! "
This change just makes actually playing the game less fun and adds more time with me not doing anything but waiting. Eve isnt instant fun and I am okay with that, but I dont want to now spend more time doing absolutely nothing as I wait 30 seconds for someone to give me a warpin for every connection or whatever so I can then spend 30 seconds warping, which is again me just staring at my screen.
Also the "I want to get rid of orbit and keep at range" is very poorly thought out. You have a game with 1 second server ticks, this isn't a flight sim. My futuristic space ship should be capable of basic maneuvering tasks like "fly in a circle around that thing" or "don't get too close to that guy" without much input from me.
[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting!
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Hicksimus
Xion Limited Resonance.
654
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Posted - 2015.06.19 00:27:40 -
[25] - Quote
Meanwhile the player count just keeps falling off a cliff. You can make something challenging without making it a pain in the ass. In this case a fleet warp spool up would be how to change the mechanic....what's being done now is just some altpocalypse pain the the ass.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1137
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Posted - 2015.06.19 01:46:47 -
[26] - Quote
People forget "box" is part of sandbox.
Funny how people react when they have to adapt to new constraints, instead of telling people to adapt to their play style. Guess people won't have to play your way after all.
And my guess is this guy has played this game and figured out the meta is too restrictive. And he is basically telling you what you tell everyone else, adapt and deal with it. But you special snowflakes don't like that, do you?
Ha ha ha ha ha!
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5880
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Posted - 2015.06.19 02:16:38 -
[27] - Quote
Removed a troll post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2015.06.19 02:26:50 -
[28] - Quote
Richard Bong wrote:"HEY GUYS LETS GET RID OF THE ABILITY TO FLEET WARP TO BOOKMARKS EVEN THOUGH OUR BOOKMARK SYSTEM TAKES 5 MINS+ TO PROPAGATE! "
This change just makes actually playing the game less fun and adds more time with me not doing anything but waiting. Eve isnt instant fun and I am okay with that, but I dont want to now spend more time doing absolutely nothing as I wait 30 seconds for someone to give me a warpin for every connection or whatever so I can then spend 30 seconds warping, which is again me just staring at my screen.
Also the "I want to get rid of orbit and keep at range" is very poorly thought out. You have a game with 1 second server ticks, this isn't a flight sim. My futuristic space ship should be capable of basic maneuvering tasks like "fly in a circle around that thing" or "don't get too close to that guy" without much input from me.
^This^
+1 from me |
Daemun Khanid
Sanctus Imperialis
97
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Posted - 2015.06.19 03:03:48 -
[29] - Quote
Getting rid of keep at range and orbit would be the single dumbest move in EvE history. New bros can hardle handle dealing with over view, weapon ranges, point ranges, ew ranges transversals, friendly fleet positions and a single enemy target. Take all that and throw 20 enemy targets in the mix and tell them to fight effectively while zoomed out looking at range rings. Lol give me a break. Valkyre is already DoA and someone thinks they can make eve pilots fly like flight sim pilots... Delusional. You wanna put sim style piloted ships in eve, go for it. You wanna make current ships require manual piloting youre dreaming. Thats not a change of mechanic its a new game. EvE is dead will be reality.
Daemun of Khanid
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
899
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Posted - 2015.06.19 03:39:05 -
[30] - Quote
Don't see it as bad change experts will play advanced game rest of us will play fleet for rookies until we move on F1 ppl will weed them self out and will not be as effective force multipliers as now.
Some ships need to be adjusted and let's give it a go. |
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