Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
|
CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
284
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 21:46:03 -
[31] - Quote
Here are some Twitch.TV chatlogs from our presentation, for no specific reason. Names were removed.
Guessing both of these were for me. PS: hair is gone now! Mar 21 15:02:17 who is the guy who looks like a hanson member Mar 21 15:02:27 CCP I hateyoudad
On Bugartist's gangsta lean and mic hold: Mar 21 15:04:13 like a gangsta Mar 21 15:04:15 gangsta mike hold? Mar 21 15:04:16 is he german Kappa Mar 21 15:04:22 Thats how ya holda mic! BALLA
Thanks we love you too! Mar 21 15:04:38 i love these guys
Oh please, we're running 1990 PowerPoint 2.0 for Windows 3.0 here, only the finest! Mar 21 15:05:35 CCP microsoft powerpoint 2003
I'm glad to see the level of excitement in the logs as well. This is pretty much me, all day: Mar 21 15:24:46 HAHA REKT Mar 21 15:24:47 wat da fuq Kappa Mar 21 15:24:47 Those tears Mar 21 15:24:47 rekt Mar 21 15:24:47 get dunked Mar 21 15:24:47 ccp does it right Mar 21 15:24:49 Get REKT BOTTERS
CCP Peligro - Team Security
|
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 21:51:20 -
[32] - Quote
Lea De Dijon wrote:CCP Peligro,
that in fact means i can scrap my logitech G13 ?
Rgds Lea
Don't have to scrap it since the G13 works nicely as a mouse. It's got a left and right mouse button and a scroll wheel and moves you pointer around the screen. Just don't use the embedded software to construct macros for all those other little buttony things |
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
364
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:13:23 -
[33] - Quote
Can I use Windows to do the key assignment?
Legacy - An EVE Online Blog
Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast
EVEServers.info - One stop API Solution for Corps/Alliances
|
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:16:29 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Peligro wrote:Dear ShadowandLight, I understand your frustration. I've seen your posts on pretty much every discussion forum on the internet talking about this exact topic. The EULA is designed to cover as many "situations" or scenarios as possible, but it cannot realistically expect to cover everything in great detail. We believe the current interpretation of the relevant EULA clauses to be in the best interest of the game and our players. As for your key remaps, you can use the in-game remaps and key bindings at your leisure. The moment you start using third-party tools to remap keys or "change the way the game is played" in any way, you are in murky territory, because of 6.A.2: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
What is your and CCP's definition of "how the game is played"? You didn't expect people to live in wormholes, yet they did. You didn't expect people to min/max their PVP, but they did. Are they in violation of the EULA? Are you confirming that EVE-O is banned then? That Pyfa, EFT, and Fuzzworks are banned? They change how the game is (was) played from EVE's release. TS3, Mumble, Overwolf, and Steam output an overlay on the screen; are they banned too? No, CCP Peligro, I didn't think so. Neither does ISBoxer, unless you have some contrived answer or proof. You want to enforce your EULA for ISBoxer? Fine, we say. But enforce it unilaterally. You can't pick and choose which parts of the EULA you want to enforce simply because it isn't convenient to you if you make us abide by it's entirety. As for "best interest", you make me laugh. You provided zero evidence supporting this cockamamie statement even as players came out and told you that more people quit because of CODE in a single month than an ISBoxer in it's entire lifespan. You want to talk about the health of EVE? Fine, lets. While I am relatively neutral on hyperdunking, it's a serious issue that can and has driven players away. I'm saying this both as a freighter pilot and as a ganker. Are you going to ban every Russian player who remaps their keyboard from Cyrillic to English? How about from Korean to English? Am I going to be banned for using Logitech's software to change the side-keys of my G600 to something other than "1-12"? How about that vet that came back from Afghanistan without his hand? If I remember correctly, he purchased a G13 Gamepad so he could be competitive in EVE. These are the questions that have been asked of CCP for the past two+ years, and time after time we have received silence, shrugs, or outright hostility from both CCP devs and the rest of the player-base.
We used to be able to do our thing with only the weekly "grr ISBoxer" thread in GD, and whoever wanted to smacktalk in local. We were not immune to ganks, we were not immune to server hiccups, and we were not immune to human error, so no, we are not playing the game differently than how it is played. You're confusing ISBoxers and botters, and that is not the kindergarten-level mistake a professional in the game development industry ought to make.
Stop attempting to scapegoat every problem you have in the game on ISBoxers. ISBoxers were one of your most dedicated and supportive player groups. We were contributing positive members of the community. We weren't "leveling our Raven"; we were dedicated to the game you created. Arguably we were as dedicated as those who owned Titans and Supercarriers (I must interject here and say I found it very interesting how many people finally trained a supercarrier and left. It was quite startling) and we were very happy to take time out of our day to sit down with a player, either from EVE or outside the game, and discuss both EVE itself, and multiboxing. We were loyal fans, and CCP did nothing more than kick us in the teeth. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:20:37 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Peligro wrote:We can regrettably not sanction or otherwise authorize the use of specific third party programs or setups. We hope you understand that we can not realistically do so given the multitude of programs, use cases and user setups that can emerge. There is also the fact that CCP has no direct control over the development of programs created by third parties; a program which complies with the EVE EULA today may be updated tomorrow with a feature which violates the EVE EULA. We can therefore not make any direct statement concerning your inquiry in particular. In short, we do not provide support beyond that listed in our official policies and public statements on the matter. Use of any third party tools is done entirely at the risk of the user and we can not publish a comprehensive list of allowed and prohibited configurations. We can point you to the following resources and statements on the use of third party programs. We hope these resources prove helpful to you in determining if what you want to do is permitted by the EULA or not: Third party policies - http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/ Statement on Multiboxing/Multiplexing - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5241022 EULA GÇô http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/ Terms of Service GÇô http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos/ We strongly advise you to refrain from using the program in question if there is still any uncertainty to the legitimacy of what you wish to do. We wish to stress the above point again: any use of third party tools is done entirely at the userGÇÿs (your) risk and there may be severe repercussions, potentially including permanent closure of your game account(s). We can ultimately only recommend that you do not use any sort of third party program which assist with EVE gameplay and/or change the way the game is played. A good rule of thumb to keep in mind is that if you have to ask, then the activity in question is probably prohibited.
So TLDR is I use Windows at my own risk now? Wow that's pretty tough stuff.
Could you outline what the standard is for "the way the game is played"? What are the settings I'm allowed to use in my windows 8 and 7 OSes? What OSes am I allowed to use? Is there a specific resolution I'm supposed to be playing at? I'm still allowed to play in windowed mode right? I know I'm using a third party program (windows) to do it so I just want to be clear. If I set my graphics card driver to optimize for speed that will change how textures are rendered in game. Since that changes the way the game is displayed does that mean I'm breaking the EULA? What setting am I supposed to run at?
Basically I change the way the game is played compared to my friends by running eve in windowed mode. If I use some of the ease of access options in control panel such as mouse over for window focus am I breaking the EULA? Since that's changing the way the game is played compared to others I'm concerned about those functions being bannable now.
Considering I'm one of maybe a couple people still boxing incursions I'm paranoid as all get out at this point. I wanted to use some of the ease of use functions that are available in windows but now I'm concerned those might get me banned.
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:21:24 -
[36] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:CCP Peligro wrote:Dear ShadowandLight, I understand your frustration. I've seen your posts on pretty much every discussion forum on the internet talking about this exact topic. The EULA is designed to cover as many "situations" or scenarios as possible, but it cannot realistically expect to cover everything in great detail. We believe the current interpretation of the relevant EULA clauses to be in the best interest of the game and our players. As for your key remaps, you can use the in-game remaps and key bindings at your leisure. The moment you start using third-party tools to remap keys or "change the way the game is played" in any way, you are in murky territory, because of 6.A.2: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played." What is your and CCP's definition of "how the game is played"? You didn't expect people to live in wormholes, yet they did. You didn't expect people to min/max their PVP, but they did. Are they in violation of the EULA?
"play" means how you interact with the client. Not how you play using the tools provided by the client. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 22:40:31 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Peligro wrote:Here are some Twitch.TV chatlogs from our presentation, for no specific reason. Names were removed. Guessing both of these were for me. PS: hair is gone now! Mar 21 15:02:17 who is the guy who looks like a hanson member Mar 21 15:02:27 CCP I hateyoudad On Bugartist's gangsta lean and mic hold:Mar 21 15:04:13 like a gangsta Mar 21 15:04:15 gangsta mike hold? Mar 21 15:04:16 is he german Kappa Mar 21 15:04:22 Thats how ya holda mic! BALLA Thanks we love you too!Mar 21 15:04:38 i love these guys Oh please, we're running 1990 PowerPoint 2.0 for Windows 3.0 here, only the finest! Mar 21 15:05:35 CCP microsoft powerpoint 2003 I'm glad to see the level of excitement in the logs as well. This is pretty much me, all day:Mar 21 15:24:46 HAHA REKT Mar 21 15:24:47 wat da fuq Kappa Mar 21 15:24:47 Those tears Mar 21 15:24:47 rekt Mar 21 15:24:47 get dunked Mar 21 15:24:47 ccp does it right Mar 21 15:24:49 Get REKT BOTTERS
One of my favorite CCP'ers, you could maybe make favorite someday if you didn't have a crippling illness.
Post signing with a signature no less.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Trakow
Beta Switch
13
|
Posted - 2015.04.13 23:26:48 -
[38] - Quote
I fully expect CCP to continue ignoring the childish posts of "but why didn't HE get in trouble?" or "why is THIS allowed?" and screen resolutions or graphics card drivers getting bans and such... My hats off to you for having a high tolerance!
Keep up the good work CCP! |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 00:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Trakow wrote:I fully expect CCP to continue ignoring the childish posts of "but why didn't HE get in trouble?" or "why is THIS allowed?" and screen resolutions or graphics card drivers getting bans and such... My hats off to you for having a high tolerance! Keep up the good work CCP! I have actual concerns here and I was hoping for some answers.
I run in windowed mode and all those questions are relevant to how I play. |
Lea De Dijon
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 00:29:29 -
[40] - Quote
i agree, KOS checkers for example, a 3rd party app takes info from a window and displays info on a char in a non eve application. i think it is indeed relevant and not asked to much to get clarification.
Lea |
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 00:31:25 -
[41] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Trakow wrote:I fully expect CCP to continue ignoring the childish posts of "but why didn't HE get in trouble?" or "why is THIS allowed?" and screen resolutions or graphics card drivers getting bans and such... My hats off to you for having a high tolerance! Keep up the good work CCP! I have actual concerns here and I was hoping for some answers. I run in windowed mode and all those questions are relevant to how I play.
Nah, you're just trolling. Badly. Or trying to one up Shadow in the "I have more question now than before" category.
I have fingers, but that guy doesn't. Aren't fingers an advantage? Is CCP gonna ban fingers now? Can I use all 10 of my fingers or just 7 before I get caught. The EULA is unclear about physical advantage in a world of special needs. Would CCP actually try and take away my fingers? That isn't legal in most parts of America or Western Europe. What if I was at FanFest? Is finger taking legal in Iceland? |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 00:39:21 -
[42] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Nah, you're just trolling. Badly. Or trying to one up Shadow in the "I have more question now than before" category. I have fingers, but that guy doesn't. Aren't fingers an advantage? Is CCP gonna ban fingers now? Can I use all 10 of my fingers or just 7 before I get caught. The EULA is unclear about physical advantage in a world of special needs. Would CCP actually try and take away my fingers? That isn't legal in most parts of America or Western Europe. What if I was at FanFest? Is finger taking legal in Iceland? Well of course we have more questions now than before. We got zero information that explained nothing and only muddied the waters even further. |
Lea De Dijon
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 00:42:26 -
[43] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk, I am not sure how you construct this now. If i expand on what has been said above I have to assume that any info taken from a window or screen in eve in general and processed outside the client (no API, real game screen) it could be considered 'illegal'. Especially if i requires only a combination of key strokes captured by the 3rd party application, not manual copy and paste.
Rgds Lea |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 01:31:28 -
[44] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Nah, you're just trolling. Badly. Or trying to one up Shadow in the "I have more question now than before" category. I have fingers, but that guy doesn't. Aren't fingers an advantage? Is CCP gonna ban fingers now? Can I use all 10 of my fingers or just 7 before I get caught. The EULA is unclear about physical advantage in a world of special needs. Would CCP actually try and take away my fingers? That isn't legal in most parts of America or Western Europe. What if I was at FanFest? Is finger taking legal in Iceland? Well of course we have more questions now than before. We got zero information that explained nothing and only muddied the waters even further.
Just can't believe there are more legitimate questions than before. There only seem to be more because now some people want to play games with all the same tripe about apps that don't relate to game play and even further into the realm of the absurd by inquiring about the operating system. It's all good. If you think you got zero information from that presentation, so be it. I know it cleared up a lot of questions I had, but then again, I was approaching it from the standpoint that these things should have always been EULA violations. Thus, I may be biased in how I interpret what it is saying. That being said, I think some are choosing to not read into what they are saying because it goes in a direction they don't want it to go.
But if I may, let me explain what I think they mean by all of this: do not use any third party app/software or software enhanced device to aid in creating inputs into the game. Period. If you do, well you may go far enough that we won't like it. No, they don't mean your operating system. Unless you are using your operating system to act in such a way that it mimics some third-party app that they have basically castrated.
No, they don't mean EVEmon of EFT or Pyfa or any of those things that may use data from the game but don't interact with it on the input side.
I'm not sure how that isn't clear. But again, I acknowledge that I read and listen to what they say and do with a bias towards: it was always against the EULA, they just let people get away with it for years. For those who always thought it was simply legal, rather than they were just getting away with something due to a blind eye being turned, they may in fact be entirely confused and don't understand any of it. But seriously, do you really expect they are going to come out and make it any clearer? Based on what I've seen thus far, they could come out and say "No ISBoxer. No Autohotkey. No this and no that" and the users of those things will still have more questions than they did on December 5th. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 01:34:08 -
[45] - Quote
Lea De Dijon wrote:Dirk MacGirk, I am not sure how you construct this now. If i expand on what has been said above I have to assume that any info taken from a window or screen in eve in general and processed outside the client (no API, real game screen) it could be considered 'illegal'. Especially if i requires only a combination of key strokes captured by the 3rd party application, not manual copy and paste.
Rgds Lea
Well, if you assume all of that then you will be in very safe territory. You should know that it doesn't include all that. But by using that as your buffer you will truly be safe |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
831
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 01:56:32 -
[46] - Quote
All we wanted was for CCP to repeal the change or at the very least, discuss the issue with us. Failing that, we take the enforcement of the EULA very seriously, so we are asking CCP about multiple programs that violate the EULA. EVEMon, Pyfa, EFT, and Fuzzworks arguably violate 6A3. EVE-O Preview violates 6A2. If CCP wishes to dis-include these programs, we have no other choice but to view the current actions as a regression to the era of T20, where a CCP dev was violating the EULA, not to mention the separation of a Dev and Player, and was considered above reproach simply because he was an employee of CCP. Nobody, least of all us, want this to happen, but what other choice do we have? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1960
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 02:18:59 -
[47] - Quote
I haven't been following all this. Are programs like PLH which monitor your clipboard OK? You Ctrl+C local which loads into PLH.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 02:46:06 -
[48] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:Trakow wrote:I fully expect CCP to continue ignoring the childish posts of "but why didn't HE get in trouble?" or "why is THIS allowed?" and screen resolutions or graphics card drivers getting bans and such... My hats off to you for having a high tolerance! Keep up the good work CCP! I have actual concerns here and I was hoping for some answers. I run in windowed mode and all those questions are relevant to how I play. Nah, you're just trolling. Badly. Or trying to one up Shadow in the "I have more question now than before" category. I have fingers, but that guy doesn't. Aren't fingers an advantage? Is CCP gonna ban fingers now? Can I use all 10 of my fingers or just 7 before I get caught. The EULA is unclear about physical advantage in a world of special needs. Would CCP actually try and take away my fingers? That isn't legal in most parts of America or Western Europe. What if I was at FanFest? Is finger taking legal in Iceland? Yeah I'm just trolling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZz_5dI6fgM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4bZm2-gTwE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZahhEjfAso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYOv7T6bug
I take the troll that far apparently... |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 02:59:17 -
[49] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:All we wanted was for CCP to repeal the change or at the very least, discuss the issue with us. Failing that, we take the enforcement of the EULA very seriously, so we are asking CCP about multiple programs that violate the EULA. EVEMon, Pyfa, EFT, and Fuzzworks arguably violate 6A3. EVE-O Preview violates 6A2. If CCP wishes to dis-include these programs, we have no other choice but to view the current actions as a regression to the era of T20, where a CCP dev was violating the EULA, not to mention the separation of a Dev and Player, and was considered above reproach simply because he was an employee of CCP. Nobody, least of all us, want this to happen, but what other choice do we have?
Inputs versus outputs. Aids to decision-making that result in the player creating an input into gameplay, and an app that assists in making an input easier or faster are two totally different things. Apps such as the first four you mentioned, don't deal with inputs at all, and thus they don't come anywhere near to what CCP is trying to deal with here. In fact, bringing those up is no different than those people who say that ISBoxer is botting. Two totally different things that people try to conflate to make them seem equally wrong.
And if you think EVE-O is some godsend to multiboxing, then load that up and hyperbox away. But we both know it isn't a replacement for ISBoxer, right?
Ff you want to raise the spectre of T20, you should do that with your representatives to the CSM. Seriously, if you want to make that comparison, you really should dial it up a notch and see where it goes. Don't let your rights be trampled. Enlist the aid of your favorite CSM and let them try and fight for you in saving us from another T20. Something tells me they wouldn't agree with you. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:09:50 -
[50] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:Trakow wrote:I fully expect CCP to continue ignoring the childish posts of "but why didn't HE get in trouble?" or "why is THIS allowed?" and screen resolutions or graphics card drivers getting bans and such... My hats off to you for having a high tolerance! Keep up the good work CCP! I have actual concerns here and I was hoping for some answers. I run in windowed mode and all those questions are relevant to how I play. Nah, you're just trolling. Badly. Or trying to one up Shadow in the "I have more question now than before" category. I have fingers, but that guy doesn't. Aren't fingers an advantage? Is CCP gonna ban fingers now? Can I use all 10 of my fingers or just 7 before I get caught. The EULA is unclear about physical advantage in a world of special needs. Would CCP actually try and take away my fingers? That isn't legal in most parts of America or Western Europe. What if I was at FanFest? Is finger taking legal in Iceland? Yeah I'm just trolling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZz_5dI6fgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4bZm2-gTwE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZahhEjfAso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYOv7T6bug I take the troll that far apparently...
OK, so from what I see you are playing in windowed mode using multiple instances. EVE provides for windowed mode out of the box. I don't see anything you are doing there as being even close to a violation. Multiple windows, have to activate the current windown, no VFx dashboard, single click = single action, no macros or round robins or rollovers. What's your question? You're playing EVE using the tools the developer gave you. Or so it seems from the video at a glance. Are you doing something other than playing EVE in windowed mode? Arranging full EVE windows isn't a violation.
I apologize for saying you were trolling, but are you really unclear that windowed mode isn't totally legal? It is on EVE's Display & Graphic tab. |
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
483
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:11:33 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Peligro wrote:
Dear ShadowandLight, I understand your frustration. I've seen your posts on pretty much every discussion forum on the internet talking about this exact topic. The EULA is designed to cover as many "situations" or scenarios as possible, but it cannot realistically expect to cover everything in great detail. We believe the current interpretation of the relevant EULA clauses to be in the best interest of the game and our players.
As for your key remaps, you can use the in-game remaps and key bindings at your leisure. The moment you start using third-party tools to remap keys or "change the way the game is played" in any way, you are in murky territory, because of 6.A.2: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
I would very much like to see a clarifying statement on this. As all of my keystrokes must go through logitech hardware and software to even get to my OS not to mention Eve I fail to see how logitech is a third party. Also effectively moving my f1 key to the lower lefthand side of my screen does not seem like it is modifying the way that I play the game especially considering that I can remap keys in game.
I highly doubt that you would have any problem with me using my G keys to activate modules but your wording here seems not clear.
|
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:25:19 -
[52] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:Trakow wrote:I fully expect CCP to continue ignoring the childish posts of "but why didn't HE get in trouble?" or "why is THIS allowed?" and screen resolutions or graphics card drivers getting bans and such... My hats off to you for having a high tolerance! Keep up the good work CCP! I have actual concerns here and I was hoping for some answers. I run in windowed mode and all those questions are relevant to how I play. Nah, you're just trolling. Badly. Or trying to one up Shadow in the "I have more question now than before" category. I have fingers, but that guy doesn't. Aren't fingers an advantage? Is CCP gonna ban fingers now? Can I use all 10 of my fingers or just 7 before I get caught. The EULA is unclear about physical advantage in a world of special needs. Would CCP actually try and take away my fingers? That isn't legal in most parts of America or Western Europe. What if I was at FanFest? Is finger taking legal in Iceland? Yeah I'm just trolling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZz_5dI6fgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4bZm2-gTwE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZahhEjfAso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYOv7T6bug I take the troll that far apparently... OK, so from what I see you are playing in windowed mode using multiple instances. EVE provides for windowed mode out of the box. I don't see anything you are doing there as being even close to a violation. Multiple windows, have to activate the current windown, no VFx dashboard, single click = single action, no macros or round robins or rollovers. What's your question? You're playing EVE using the tools the developer gave you. Or so it seems from the video at a glance. Are you doing something other than playing EVE in windowed mode? Arranging full EVE windows isn't a violation. I apologize for saying you were trolling, but are you really unclear that windowed mode isn't totally legal? It is on EVE's Display & Graphic tab. Except now the EULA and the statements are completely different. Windowed mode only exists because of a third party program called windows. Every question was relevant to my activity.
The ease of use functions available in all windows "changes" the way the game is played by allowing me to do things like mouse over focus. I want to use that function of the OS but the way they are wording this stuff I could be falling into a ban as a result. I want a clarification if I'm allowed to use those OS functions. These are only part of my questions the full list is in the post you deemed to be a "troll post"....
BTW I don't have to hit hotkeys for every window. For example when taking the gate I just hold D and click through the windows. Is that bannable? I'm not using anything other then a standard mechanical keyboard (nothing fancy other then nice switches) and windows 7 pro. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:29:10 -
[53] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:CCP Peligro wrote:
Dear ShadowandLight, I understand your frustration. I've seen your posts on pretty much every discussion forum on the internet talking about this exact topic. The EULA is designed to cover as many "situations" or scenarios as possible, but it cannot realistically expect to cover everything in great detail. We believe the current interpretation of the relevant EULA clauses to be in the best interest of the game and our players.
As for your key remaps, you can use the in-game remaps and key bindings at your leisure. The moment you start using third-party tools to remap keys or "change the way the game is played" in any way, you are in murky territory, because of 6.A.2: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
I would very much like to see a clarifying statement on this. As all of my keystrokes must go through logitech hardware and software to even get to my OS not to mention Eve I fail to see how logitech is a third party. Also effectively moving my f1 key to the lower lefthand side of my screen does not seem like it is modifying the way that I play the game especially considering that I can remap keys in game. I highly doubt that you would have any problem with me using my G keys to activate modules but your wording here seems not clear. Every single program running on your computer other then those installed by CCP are considered third party. Even your operating system and drivers are third party.
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2254
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:32:50 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:Fanfest is over, and I think I finally lost my hangover. I hope this was written a while ago, otherwise that is one mean, month-long hangover. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:43:05 -
[55] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Except now the EULA and the statements are completely different. Windowed mode only exists because of a third party program called windows. Every question was relevant to my activity.
The ease of use functions available in all windows "changes" the way the game is played by allowing me to do things like mouse over focus. I want to use that function of the OS but the way they are wording this stuff I could be falling into a ban as a result. I want a clarification if I'm allowed to use those OS functions. These are only part of my questions the full list is in the post you deemed to be a "troll post"....
Ah, I see. Windows, the operating system, allows CCP to give you windowed mode, thus Windows is itself a third-party program the contributes to a EULA violation. Yes, I see why you might be concerned.
Look, when you start off from that perspective, one might get the idea you're trying to troll. That's cool. I wasn't really clear about what they were targeting entirely back when all this began in December. And I too asked for clarity. But I think I now know what will and won't get you into trouble or get you banned. I'm not sure that anyone will be able to convince those who don't already get it. Not that I really think they don't get it. Hey, I wish you well in finding your path to the EULA enlightenment you seek. Play safe. |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
833
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 03:57:58 -
[56] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Inputs versus outputs. Aids to decision-making that result in the player creating an input into gameplay, and an app that assists in making an input easier or faster are two totally different things. Apps such as the first four you mentioned, don't deal with inputs at all, and thus they don't come anywhere near to what CCP is trying to deal with here. In fact, bringing those up is no different than those people who say that ISBoxer is botting. Two totally different things that people try to conflate to make them seem equally wrong. And if you think EVE-O is some godsend to multiboxing, then load that up and hyperbox away. But we both know it isn't a replacement for ISBoxer, right? If you want to raise the spectre of T20, you should do that with your representatives to the CSM. Seriously, if you want to make that comparison, you really should dial it up a notch and see where it goes. Don't let your rights be trampled. Enlist the aid of your favorite CSM and let them try and fight for you in saving us from another T20. Something tells me they wouldn't agree with you. "Aids to decision-making" So you mean like better GPU/CPU/RAM, reduced graphics, and a bigger monitor, which allows a player to react faster than another player with older hardware? Do you mean things like Fuzzworks, which lets a player decide which module he should sell on the market or manufacture to produce the most ISK / LP faster than someone with a calculator doing it by hand? I bring these programs up in an attempt to show how crazy the arguments being presented against ISBoxer are, however I was quite serious in my request to ban these programs because they violate the EULA in the exact same hair-brained logic that ISBoxer does. I'm not saying it's a "godsend", I'm asking if that 5-boxer was using EVE-O Preview instead of ISBoxer, would he have been banned? Can anyone at CCP look me in the eye and say "Yes, he would have been banned" for playing too fast?
e: @Dirk MacGirk He brings up Windows the same reason I brought up Pyfa/EFT. It can be argued to violate the EULA. We're saying CCP cannot selectively pick and choose what part of the EULA they want to enforce for which programs. They have two choices: Either they ban them all, or they don't ban any of them. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 04:00:58 -
[57] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:
Except now the EULA and the statements are completely different. Windowed mode only exists because of a third party program called windows. Every question was relevant to my activity.
The ease of use functions available in all windows "changes" the way the game is played by allowing me to do things like mouse over focus. I want to use that function of the OS but the way they are wording this stuff I could be falling into a ban as a result. I want a clarification if I'm allowed to use those OS functions. These are only part of my questions the full list is in the post you deemed to be a "troll post"....
Ah, I see. Windows, the operating system, allows CCP to give you windowed mode, thus Windows is itself a third-party program the contributes to a EULA violation. Yes, I see why you might be concerned. Look, when you start off from that perspective, one might get the idea you're trying to troll. That's cool. I wasn't really clear about what they were targeting entirely back when all this began in December. And I too asked for clarity. But I think I now know what will and won't get you into trouble or get you banned. I'm not sure that anyone will be able to convince those who don't already get it. Not that I really think they don't get it. Hey, I wish you well in finding your path to the EULA enlightenment you seek. Play safe. I'm trying that's why I'm not using any of the fancy stuff in windows and I'm only running eve clients.
Outside of that video is a screen to my right that has a nestor and is part of the primary system.
To the left is a secondary system that uses a second keyboard and mouse along with a dedicated monitor. That system runs my booster. ore dropper and second nestor.
Seen here
http://i.imgur.com/7spamN0.jpg
|
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
364
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 04:09:06 -
[58] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:I'm trying that's why I'm not using any of the fancy stuff in windows and I'm only running eve clients. Outside of that video is a screen to my right that has a nestor and is part of the primary system. To the left is a secondary system that uses a second keyboard and mouse along with a dedicated monitor. That system runs my booster. ore dropper and second nestor. Seen here http://i.imgur.com/7spamN0.jpg
I hate to say this, but I do so with 100% honesty.
If your "too fast" compared to a baseline that we dont know of, you will probably get banned assuming we are to believe the half or so dozen people who reported the same.
CCP has no method to tell the difference if your using a macro (unless its painfully obvious) or you are just good at multiboxing and alt-tabbing...
Legacy - An EVE Online Blog
Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast
EVEServers.info - One stop API Solution for Corps/Alliances
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 04:17:01 -
[59] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Inputs versus outputs. Aids to decision-making that result in the player creating an input into gameplay, and an app that assists in making an input easier or faster are two totally different things. Apps such as the first four you mentioned, don't deal with inputs at all, and thus they don't come anywhere near to what CCP is trying to deal with here. In fact, bringing those up is no different than those people who say that ISBoxer is botting. Two totally different things that people try to conflate to make them seem equally wrong. And if you think EVE-O is some godsend to multiboxing, then load that up and hyperbox away. But we both know it isn't a replacement for ISBoxer, right? If you want to raise the spectre of T20, you should do that with your representatives to the CSM. Seriously, if you want to make that comparison, you really should dial it up a notch and see where it goes. Don't let your rights be trampled. Enlist the aid of your favorite CSM and let them try and fight for you in saving us from another T20. Something tells me they wouldn't agree with you. "Aids to decision-making" So you mean like better GPU/CPU/RAM, reduced graphics, and a bigger monitor, which allows a player to react faster than another player with older hardware? Do you mean things like Fuzzworks, which lets a player decide which module he should sell on the market or manufacture to produce the most ISK / LP faster than someone with a calculator doing it by hand? I bring these programs up in an attempt to show how crazy the arguments being presented against ISBoxer are, however I was quite serious in my request to ban these programs because they violate the EULA in the exact same hair-brained logic that ISBoxer does. I'm not saying it's a "godsend", I'm asking if that 5-boxer was using EVE-O Preview instead of ISBoxer, would he have been banned? Can anyone at CCP look me in the eye and say "Yes, he would have been banned" for playing too fast? e: @Dirk MacGirk He brings up Windows the same reason I brought up Pyfa/EFT. It can be argued to violate the EULA. We're saying CCP cannot selectively pick and choose what part of the EULA they want to enforce for which programs. They have two choices: Either they ban them all, or they don't ban any of them.
Anything can be argued to violate the EULA. The argument may not be right, but anything can be argued.
Actually, they have a third choice: ban whatever they want and don't ban everything else that may or may not be similar or exactly the same. They can absolutely choose to say one thing in the EULA and do another with regard to enforcing it. Which is exactly what they did related to ISBoxer and Boxer-like functionality for years. But let's not for one minute think that if they do this then they must do that. There is no fundamental right to equal protection under the EULA, even if the argument had merit. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 04:33:14 -
[60] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:I'm trying that's why I'm not using any of the fancy stuff in windows and I'm only running eve clients. Outside of that video is a screen to my right that has a nestor and is part of the primary system. To the left is a secondary system that uses a second keyboard and mouse along with a dedicated monitor. That system runs my booster. ore dropper and second nestor. Seen here http://i.imgur.com/7spamN0.jpg I hate to say this, but I do so with 100% honesty. If your "too fast" compared to a baseline that we dont know of, you will probably get banned assuming we are to believe the half or so dozen people who reported the same. CCP has no method to tell the difference if your using a macro (unless its painfully obvious) or you are just good at multiboxing and alt-tabbing...
Shadow - We don't know that they have a speed baseline. Could make sense, in the absence of some other method, but we don't honestly know what tool(s) they are using or what the chance is for a false positive.
Maybe one day CCP_EdwardSnowden will shoot some docs to EVEWikiLeaks and out the fact that they are looking into your machine. But until then, its all just speculation because they won't give it away so that some crafty soul out there can find a way of masking the signature |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |