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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
5575
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:42:40 -
[1] - Quote
Team Security comes with an interesting recap from Fanfest 2015. Don't wait any longer and learn more about Team Security, about bans, security awareness, and black market ISK!
Check out CCP Peligro's latest dev blog A quick update from Team Security - Recap from Fanfest 2015.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
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Cristl
221
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:53:25 -
[2] - Quote
Book 'em Danno, murder one. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3293
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:09:26 -
[3] - Quote
What is the penalty for hiding accounts? That is, someone hides which accounts are theirs, so if they get a 7 day ban, it will not be on all their accounts?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
14246
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:28:50 -
[4] - Quote
Keep up the great work!
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
275
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:32:34 -
[5] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:What is the penalty for hiding accounts? That is, someone hides which accounts are theirs, so if they get a 7 day ban, it will not be on all their accounts?
That depends, as there are different ways of "hiding your accounts" - some include client modification, which will get you permanently banned on first offense.
It's not possible to "launder" or otherwise transfer assets from one account to another, without leaving a trail of logs, which we can use to figure out who is benefiting from such EULA/TOS infringing activities. Most of our detection capabilities comes from server-side log analysis.
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
275
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:33:04 -
[6] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Keep up the great work!
Yaay thanks Chribba! Hej Hej hall+Ñ!
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
285
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:35:32 -
[7] - Quote
Please do a Tears of the Multi-boxer youtube video
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3294
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:41:20 -
[8] - Quote
I'm concerned by the entire Awareness effort. The client has banners telling players they can buy PLEX, and resell for ISK. That's good. But nowhere is there a banner telling them what happens if they buy their ISK from a black market site. Nor is there any banners involving Awareness when it comes to botting, broadcasting or client modification.
Why not?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
363
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:48:56 -
[9] - Quote
Can someone from CCP please answer the following?
I 1st posted this in the input duplication thread, with no response....
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5605658#post5605658
--
Can someone from CCP please clarify what Team Security presented during Fanfest?
VFX / Rollover Questions
They seem to say its "client modification" if you put VFX inside your client window. Then state to "read the EULA" and that these programs modify the client.
CCP's Example of a modified Client
That is of course false, since your just using built in Window DWM / AERO features (the same thing you see when you hold alt-tab). This is a built in windows feature that you could implement on your PC without using tools like ISBoxer, which just makes it easier.
In fact CCP is helping development one now.
If I use the CCP endorsed DWM tool, which modifies how the game client is presented, am I not in the same violation?
EVE-O preview - multi-client preview
That program is EASILY following the same pathway that ISBoxer uses to modify clients for easier window management, it could VERY QUICKLY turn into the same exact feature set (would that be falling into some kind of copyright infringement, CCP?)
However since they are seemingly intent on calling Windows Features "client modification", using VFX and Rollover OUTSIDE the client cant be considered client modification.
So if I use VFX, Clickbars, round-robin etc OUTSIDE the client window, I am not modifying the client in anyway, so therefor I am not in violation if I am using CCP's strict interperation of the rules.
This is an example of a dxnothing window that DOES NOT in anyway put anything inside the EVE Client Window. This MUST be within the EULA based on CCP's presentation. (Before anyone harps the "3rd party tool for an advantage to the average player" garbage, 1st defend the CCP endorsed EVE-O Preview tool, Evernus, Elinor, EVEHQ and many other 3rd party programs that give you an advantage over others).
Rollover / Keymapping Specific Question
Assuming that using Rollover buttons OUTSIDE of the client is ok, since im not "modifying the client", then what is the issue? Am I not allowed to send a "left mouse button click" when I move my mouse?
In Team Security's presentation they stated you CAN use Touch Screens. Ok, can I use a Touch Screen to activate a bunch of modules in a row (like all of my low slots)? Is using Touch Screens ok but using Rollover's not ok?
What about just re-mapping the keys from my clients onto my keyboard or another input device?
Are we allowed to make key remaps? Can I remap F1 on Client #2 to F2 instead?
If I get a Xkey 80 and assign each button, I could easily use bombers almost as effeicently as using Rollover or Input Duplication... Is this allowed? Its certainty not a macro, just a key remap? How would CCP know the difference though? I can hit 16 + buttons in a second using my fingers, what if i just took my fist and smashed all the keys?
There is a simple solution to all of this vagueness
If you dont want to name features directly then draw a line
" you cannot send more then x commands to your clients in x seconds."
Simple, easy to follow, no confusion. Something like that would be completely feature agnostic.
This current vagueness is complete garbage.
I and others have outlined questions and concerns at Dual-boxing.com
http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/52086-Team-Security-EVE-Fanfest-presentation-1500-GMT-on-Saturday-March-21st?p=397319&viewfull=1#post397319
Legacy - An EVE Online Blog
Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast
EVEServers.info - One stop API Solution for Corps/Alliances
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Linkoman
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
9
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Posted - 2015.04.13 16:59:18 -
[10] - Quote
Any more details about 2FA yet? |
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
275
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:07:32 -
[11] - Quote
Linkoman wrote:Any more details about 2FA yet?
No 2FA updates from me right now, but it's coming! It's a big topic and we'll have a dev blog about 2FA in the foreseeable future.
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
825
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:10:17 -
[12] - Quote
Can CCP comment on the situation evolving with their endorsement of a third party program that violates 6A2? Can CCP comment on the 5-boxer who was banned whilst not using any form of broadcasting? Can CCP comment on the fact that Falcon still has not come to the table for the previously-agreed-upon meeting? Can CCP comment on the fact that this was pushed by a CSM member who most likely lied about the situation regarding his loss of a Battleship fleet that was AFK on a planet? And finally, can CCP comment on the fact that NOBODY anywhere has yet to give a logical reason why this change was enacted? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1043
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:20:55 -
[13] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Can CCP comment on the situation evolving with their endorsement of a third party program that violates 6A2? Can CCP comment on the 5-boxer who was banned whilst not using any form of broadcasting? Can CCP comment on the fact that Falcon still has not come to the table for the previously-agreed-upon meeting? Can CCP comment on the fact that this was pushed by a CSM member who most likely lied about the situation regarding his loss of a Battleship fleet that was AFK on a planet? And finally, can CCP comment on the fact that NOBODY anywhere has yet to give a logical reason why this change was enacted? the reasons why input broadcasting was banned were clearly explained
don't whine that nobody has given a reason when your actual complaint is you don't agree with the reason |
Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
825
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:21:53 -
[14] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Can CCP comment on the situation evolving with their endorsement of a third party program that violates 6A2? Can CCP comment on the 5-boxer who was banned whilst not using any form of broadcasting? Can CCP comment on the fact that Falcon still has not come to the table for the previously-agreed-upon meeting? Can CCP comment on the fact that this was pushed by a CSM member who most likely lied about the situation regarding his loss of a Battleship fleet that was AFK on a planet? And finally, can CCP comment on the fact that NOBODY anywhere has yet to give a logical reason why this change was enacted? the reasons why input broadcasting was banned were clearly explained don't whine that nobody has given a reason when your actual complaint is you don't agree with the reason If by "clearly explained" you mean "We kinda thought it was a AFK bot despite all evidence to the contrary, so we banned it after a CSM member QQ'd loud enough" then sure, it was explained. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:25:32 -
[15] - Quote
Are their particular players you keep an eye on? Outside of the CSM that is.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
275
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:30:28 -
[16] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Are their particular players you keep an eye on? Outside of the CSM that is.
Yes, everybody, and especially you!
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1716
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Posted - 2015.04.13 17:38:02 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Peligro wrote:Aryth wrote:Are their particular players you keep an eye on? Outside of the CSM that is. Yes, everybody, and especially you!
Well, we tend to behave as though we are watched 24/7 now anyway! Glad to see my paranoia is deserved!
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aegon the Dragonbane
Taking it for Granite
4
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:16:30 -
[18] - Quote
Does this count as Isk purchasing? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5325
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:16:37 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Peligro wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:What is the penalty for hiding accounts? That is, someone hides which accounts are theirs, so if they get a 7 day ban, it will not be on all their accounts? That depends, as there are different ways of "hiding your accounts" - some include client modification, which will get you permanently banned on first offense. It's not possible to "launder" or otherwise transfer assets from one account to another, without leaving a trail of logs, which we can use to figure out who is benefiting from such EULA/TOS infringing activities. Most of our detection capabilities comes from server-side log analysis. Challenge accepted.
1. Create corp. 2. Invite loads of people to corp, including at some point your alt. 3. Encourage people to pool resources. 4. Pool resources into a nice handy wallet and office you have unrestricted access to. 5. Loot corp and disband.
Unless of course the isk was sources illegally in the first place, in which case it'll still get removed. Which come to think of it leaves open a big area for some pretty bad shenanigans.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1043
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:52:29 -
[20] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote: And finally, can CCP comment on the fact that NOBODY anywhere has yet to give a logical reason why this change was enacted?
the reasons why input broadcasting was banned were clearly explained don't whine that nobody has given a reason when your actual complaint is you don't agree with the reason If by "clearly explained" you mean "We kinda thought it was a AFK bot despite all evidence to the contrary, so we banned it after a CSM member QQ'd loud enough" then sure, it was explained. you whined a change was not clearly explained, not a ban, see above |
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Nolak Ataru
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
826
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:58:12 -
[21] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote: And finally, can CCP comment on the fact that NOBODY anywhere has yet to give a logical reason why this change was enacted?
the reasons why input broadcasting was banned were clearly explained don't whine that nobody has given a reason when your actual complaint is you don't agree with the reason If by "clearly explained" you mean "We kinda thought it was a AFK bot despite all evidence to the contrary, so we banned it after a CSM member QQ'd loud enough" then sure, it was explained. you whined a change was not clearly explained, not a ban, see above It wasn't explained period.The change led to bans. |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
585
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:58:59 -
[22] - Quote
These rules should also apply to players using market bots to monitor and update orders, right?
I ask this question for specific clarifcation, only because I have reported a few rather obvous market bots in the recent past, and yet no serious action appeared to be taken against them - perhaps they were given a warning, but certainly they were never hit with any temp ban, and are still operating. |
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
281
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Posted - 2015.04.13 20:14:59 -
[23] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:These rules should also apply to players using market bots to monitor and update orders, right?
I ask this question for specific clarifcation, only because I have reported a few rather obvous market bots in the recent past, and yet no serious action appeared to be taken against them - perhaps they were given a warning, but certainly they were never hit with any temp ban, and are still operating.
Yes, the botting rules apply, specifically 6.A.2 and 6.A.3 from the EULA: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/
I understand that it is frustrating when it feels as if your reports are ignored; I can assure you that this is not the case. We do need to have server-side evidence which verifies wrongdoing on our end, before we can take action. We will never ban anyone based solely on reports, but reports can prompt an investigation and lead to action.
We also have some improvements for the reporting tools and procedures on the ever-growing "to-do" list, will keep you posted on that.
For now, please keep it up with the reports, we do appreciate them, even if there are many - with varying degrees of accuracy...
PS: The Nosy Gamer's section in our talk touches on this topic ever so slightly; he mentions that bots are afraid of player reports and tend to try to operate without getting noticed. Go ahead and ruin their day by reporting them to CCP!
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
281
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Posted - 2015.04.13 20:23:51 -
[24] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Can someone from CCP please answer the following? I 1st posted this in the input duplication thread, with no response.... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5605658#post5605658 -- Can someone from CCP please clarify what Team Security presented during Fanfest? VFX / Rollover Questions They seem to say its "client modification" if you put VFX inside your client window. Then state to "read the EULA" and that these programs modify the client. CCP's Example of a modified ClientThat is of course false, since your just using built in Window DWM / AERO features (the same thing you see when you hold alt-tab). This is a built in windows feature that you could implement on your PC without using tools like ISBoxer, which just makes it easier. In fact CCP is helping development one now. If I use the CCP endorsed DWM tool, which modifies how the game client is presented, am I not in the same violation? EVE-O preview - multi-client previewThat program is EASILY following the same pathway that ISBoxer uses to modify clients for easier window management, it could VERY QUICKLY turn into the same exact feature set (would that be falling into some kind of copyright infringement, CCP?) However since they are seemingly intent on calling Windows Features "client modification", using VFX and Rollover OUTSIDE the client cant be considered client modification. So if I use VFX, Clickbars, round-robin etc OUTSIDE the client window, I am not modifying the client in anyway, so therefor I am not in violation if I am using CCP's strict interperation of the rules. This is an example of a dxnothing window that DOES NOT in anyway put anything inside the EVE Client Window. This MUST be within the EULA based on CCP's presentation. (Before anyone harps the "3rd party tool for an advantage to the average player" garbage, 1st defend the CCP endorsed EVE-O Preview tool, Evernus, Elinor, EVEHQ and many other 3rd party programs that give you an advantage over others). Rollover / Keymapping Specific Question Assuming that using Rollover buttons OUTSIDE of the client is ok, since im not "modifying the client", then what is the issue? Am I not allowed to send a "left mouse button click" when I move my mouse? In Team Security's presentation they stated you CAN use Touch Screens. Ok, can I use a Touch Screen to activate a bunch of modules in a row (like all of my low slots)? Is using Touch Screens ok but using Rollover's not ok? What about just re-mapping the keys from my clients onto my keyboard or another input device? Are we allowed to make key remaps? Can I remap F1 on Client #2 to F2 instead? If I get a Xkey 80 and assign each button, I could easily use bombers almost as effeicently as using Rollover or Input Duplication... Is this allowed? Its certainty not a macro, just a key remap? How would CCP know the difference though? I can hit 16 + buttons in a second using my fingers, what if i just took my fist and smashed all the keys? There is a simple solution to all of this vagueness If you dont want to name features directly then draw a line " you cannot send more then x commands to your clients in x seconds." Simple, easy to follow, no confusion. Something like that would be completely feature agnostic. This current vagueness is complete garbage. I and others have outlined questions and concerns at Dual-boxing.comhttp://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/52086-Team-Security-EVE-Fanfest-presentation-1500-GMT-on-Saturday-March-21st?p=397319&viewfull=1#post397319
We can regrettably not sanction or otherwise authorize the use of specific third party programs or setups. We hope you understand that we can not realistically do so given the multitude of programs, use cases and user setups that can emerge. There is also the fact that CCP has no direct control over the development of programs created by third parties; a program which complies with the EVE EULA today may be updated tomorrow with a feature which violates the EVE EULA. We can therefore not make any direct statement concerning your inquiry in particular.
In short, we do not provide support beyond that listed in our official policies and public statements on the matter. Use of any third party tools is done entirely at the risk of the user and we can not publish a comprehensive list of allowed and prohibited configurations.
We can point you to the following resources and statements on the use of third party programs. We hope these resources prove helpful to you in determining if what you want to do is permitted by the EULA or not:
Third party policies - http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/ CCP Peligro - Team Security
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers Soviet-Union
364
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Posted - 2015.04.13 20:54:08 -
[25] - Quote
Sigh... Peligro there are many questions in that post you can easily answer, like if I can make key-remaps, can I use a touch screen to activate modules or is using video fx out of the client considered "client modification".
I cannot wrap my head around everytime you guys respond it's "read the EULA". The EULA doesn't answer this question and you guys refuse to clarify.
Legacy - An EVE Online Blog
Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast
EVEServers.info - One stop API Solution for Corps/Alliances
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Lea De Dijon
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:02:07 -
[26] - Quote
Hi,
I have seen the video on youtube about your attempts to prevent botting and account hacking. a lot of emphasis seems to be on specific ip addresses. you are aware that many ISP, especially in rural areas have a shared ip address for the majority of their customers ? i am network engineer for one of those ISP and i know for sure there are other eve players on the road with the same ip address. how do you determine that same ip address is not same person. in other words, will i be punished because i share an ip address with many other players ?
Fly Safe ! Lea |
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
284
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:05:12 -
[27] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Sigh... Peligro there are many questions in that post you can easily answer, like if I can make key-remaps, can I use a touch screen to activate modules or is using video fx out of the client considered "client modification".
I cannot wrap my head around everytime you guys respond it's "read the EULA". The EULA doesn't answer this question and you guys refuse to clarify.
Dear ShadowandLight, I understand your frustration. I've seen your posts on pretty much every discussion forum on the internet talking about this exact topic. The EULA is designed to cover as many "situations" or scenarios as possible, but it cannot realistically expect to cover everything in great detail. We believe the current interpretation of the relevant EULA clauses to be in the best interest of the game and our players.
As for your key remaps, you can use the in-game remaps and key bindings at your leisure. The moment you start using third-party tools to remap keys or "change the way the game is played" in any way, you are in murky territory, because of 6.A.2: "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played."
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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Lea De Dijon
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:12:57 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Peligro,
that in fact means i can scrap my logitech G13 ?
Rgds Lea |
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CCP Peligro
C C P C C P Alliance
284
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:22:20 -
[29] - Quote
Lea De Dijon wrote:Hi,
I have seen the video on youtube about your attempts to prevent botting and account hacking. a lot of emphasis seems to be on specific ip addresses. you are aware that many ISP, especially in rural areas have a shared ip address for the majority of their customers ? i am network engineer for one of those ISP and i know for sure there are other eve players on the road with the same ip address. how do you determine that same ip address is not same person. in other words, will i be punished because i share an ip address with many other players ?
Fly Safe ! Lea
Are you referring to the top 20 "Banned accounts by country IP" graphs? These are "for fun" numbers which we were asked to present, and we've got them, so why not? (Page 20, 21 from http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67092/1/Fanfest_2015_-_Team_Security_-_Better_Safe_Than_Sorry.pdf)
I did add disclaimers both times we've shown these graphs at fanfest, as we don't necessarily equate an IP address to an individual. This is merely technical information extracted from the latest source IP used to connect to the banned accounts we were analyzing, for the purposes of this presentation. Lots of these accounts are using various methods to hide their actual IP (proxies, VPN's, VPS, Tor, you name it, people use it).
Also, USA & Russia topping makes sense, because they are our biggest markets. Please don't interpret these graphs as a "who's who" of cheaters and their nationalities. In all honesty, nationality is not a factor for CCP in this context at all. You are all citizens of New Eden, as far as I am concerned!
To answer your actual question - no you shouldn't worry about sharing IP addresses with other players. We have an abundance of information available to determine ownership of accounts. Some players connect with a new IP address every single day, and this is perfectly OK.
CCP Peligro - Team Security
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Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
137
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:45:53 -
[30] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Sigh... Peligro there are many questions in that post you can easily answer, like if I can make key-remaps, can I use a touch screen to activate modules or is using video fx out of the client considered "client modification".
I cannot wrap my head around everytime you guys respond it's "read the EULA". The EULA doesn't answer this question and you guys refuse to clarify.
"A good rule of thumb to keep in mind is that if you have to ask, then the activity in question is probably prohibited." - CCP Peligro
The operative word in there is "if you HAVE to ask" not just if you WANT to ask. Quit wanting so badly. lol |
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