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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
845
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Posted - 2014.12.08 19:22:40 -
[31] - Quote
Why not make missions show up as anomalies too? (I don't actually support this, just using it as a slightly hyperbolic example.)
Certain content requires more work to access than others. Such is EvE.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
294
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Posted - 2014.12.08 19:28:38 -
[32] - Quote
Keep the scanning, make them a seperate signature type.
Scanning down 46 different signatures in a wormhole to find an exit is the epitome of tedium.
Keep the scanning, remove the tedium. |
Les Routiers
Les Trous Du Culte SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.12.08 20:00:56 -
[33] - Quote
Fewer people, in proportion, live in nullsec than in highsec. That's because of the tedium of getting past gate camps and having to watch local.
I say: give all 0.0 systems the same Concord response as 1.0 sec space gets so you don't have to worry about local so much. Remove bubbles, they're a pain for travelers.
Also: have all sites, in highsec / lowsec / nullsec turned into anomalies.
Finally: remove all the NPCs from combat sites, leaving only the cans, with those holding valuable loot (BPCs, Overseer Effects, Officer mods, etc) having a different color.
That thread has opened my eyes: let's take the tedium out of farming sites
To be honest, I believe the OP was much smarter than what I'm describing above, but I'm still strongly opposed to making wormholes easy to identify. Don't like scanning? Lots of k-space systems for you to play in. |
Aliventi
Hard Knocks Inc.
787
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Posted - 2014.12.08 20:13:25 -
[34] - Quote
I think it would be cool for K to K space connections to not have to be scanned down. Mostly because it get's people to places they don't live around. A scout or someone who doesn't scan often can go "Oh hey! There's a K to K-space WH to [insert fun region where people fight]. We should form a fleet and go find a fight." Everyone wins in that situation.
I think making WHs quicker to scan would be good (different signature type or simply easier to scan), but I don't like removing scanning for WHs. |
Gay Pornstar
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.12.08 20:22:37 -
[35] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:I think it would be cool for K to K space connections to not have to be scanned down. Mostly because it get's people to places they don't live around. A scout or someone who doesn't scan often can go "Oh hey! There's a K to K-space WH to [insert fun region where people fight]. We should form a fleet and go find a fight." Everyone wins in that situation.
I think making WHs quicker to scan would be good (different signature type or simply easier to scan), but I don't like removing scanning for WHs.
Im +1 for this.
There is an idea of a Gay Pornstar; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
294
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Posted - 2014.12.08 21:23:59 -
[36] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote:Aliventi wrote:I think it would be cool for K to K space connections to not have to be scanned down. Mostly because it get's people to places they don't live around. A scout or someone who doesn't scan often can go "Oh hey! There's a K to K-space WH to [insert fun region where people fight]. We should form a fleet and go find a fight." Everyone wins in that situation.
I think making WHs quicker to scan would be good (different signature type or simply easier to scan), but I don't like removing scanning for WHs. Im +1 for this.
I second the motion.
Adding traffic to WH's is a great thing. Allowing people travel to far reaches of space more easily is also a great thing. Something something more dangerous.
EDIT: Would also be awesome for the hundreds of new WH's coming out! Personally I will hardly ever go into WH's because I don't want to have to bring a scanner on every ship I want to pvp in. Especially the small ones. |
muhadin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
192
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Posted - 2014.12.08 22:03:20 -
[37] - Quote
Alundil wrote:muhadin wrote:While the main idea may be too extreme that it would break wormholes currently. Making wormholes easier to probe/Distinguishing wormhole sigs from other sigs, would be a small but massive step in the right direction. First: -1, do not support this idea. Second: What "right direction"? You claim that people are not in wspace because they do not want to scan. There are thousands of other systems for them to play in then that require no scanning whatsoever. Wspace was designed to be different for a reason. Scanning for entrance/exit/content is part and parcel of the space itself.
Wormholes don't open as much as they should. WH chains are not as big as they could be. By increasing the ease of traveling down wormhole chains, and the increase in players to wh space because of that, would greatly increase the amount of wormholes in every wspace system.
A large majority of wormhole systems are always isolated in very small wormhole chains, rarely ever connected to any active wh systems. Overall there are not that many players scanning wh space daily, nowhere near on the scale of players that actually live in wh space, and nowhere near the active players in comparison to nullsec.
Casual players don't do well in wormhole space, even if they are good at the game.
"Love the Life you Live, Live the Life you Love"
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Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
489
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Posted - 2014.12.08 22:21:42 -
[38] - Quote
muhadin wrote:Alundil wrote:muhadin wrote:While the main idea may be too extreme that it would break wormholes currently. Making wormholes easier to probe/Distinguishing wormhole sigs from other sigs, would be a small but massive step in the right direction. First: -1, do not support this idea. Second: What "right direction"? You claim that people are not in wspace because they do not want to scan. There are thousands of other systems for them to play in then that require no scanning whatsoever. Wspace was designed to be different for a reason. Scanning for entrance/exit/content is part and parcel of the space itself. Wormholes don't open as much as they should. WH chains are not as big as they could be. By increasing the ease of traveling down wormhole chains, and the increase in players to wh space because of that, would greatly increase the amount of wormholes in every wspace system. A large majority of wormhole systems are always isolated in very small wormhole chains, rarely ever connected to any active wh systems. Overall there are not that many players scanning wh space daily, nowhere near on the scale of players that actually live in wh space, and nowhere near the active players in comparison to nullsec. Casual players don't do well in wormhole space, even if they are good at the game.
What? http://i.imgur.com/E1rk7tY.png What? http://i.imgur.com/0RlYTkn.png What?
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
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muhadin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
192
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Posted - 2014.12.08 22:32:09 -
[39] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:muhadin wrote:Alundil wrote:muhadin wrote:While the main idea may be too extreme that it would break wormholes currently. Making wormholes easier to probe/Distinguishing wormhole sigs from other sigs, would be a small but massive step in the right direction. First: -1, do not support this idea. Second: What "right direction"? You claim that people are not in wspace because they do not want to scan. There are thousands of other systems for them to play in then that require no scanning whatsoever. Wspace was designed to be different for a reason. Scanning for entrance/exit/content is part and parcel of the space itself. Wormholes don't open as much as they should. WH chains are not as big as they could be. By increasing the ease of traveling down wormhole chains, and the increase in players to wh space because of that, would greatly increase the amount of wormholes in every wspace system. A large majority of wormhole systems are always isolated in very small wormhole chains, rarely ever connected to any active wh systems. Overall there are not that many players scanning wh space daily, nowhere near on the scale of players that actually live in wh space, and nowhere near the active players in comparison to nullsec. Casual players don't do well in wormhole space, even if they are good at the game. What? http://i.imgur.com/E1rk7tY.png What? http://i.imgur.com/0RlYTkn.png What?
Most people don't do that, that would take one person 2-3hours. Not every wormhole chain has large chains like that, most are 3-6 jumps before its just BS. And I'm talking 15-20 jump wh chains in every static.
"Love the Life you Live, Live the Life you Love"
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Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
489
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Posted - 2014.12.08 22:52:35 -
[40] - Quote
muhadin wrote:Kaerakh wrote:muhadin wrote:Alundil wrote:muhadin wrote:While the main idea may be too extreme that it would break wormholes currently. Making wormholes easier to probe/Distinguishing wormhole sigs from other sigs, would be a small but massive step in the right direction. First: -1, do not support this idea. Second: What "right direction"? You claim that people are not in wspace because they do not want to scan. There are thousands of other systems for them to play in then that require no scanning whatsoever. Wspace was designed to be different for a reason. Scanning for entrance/exit/content is part and parcel of the space itself. Wormholes don't open as much as they should. WH chains are not as big as they could be. By increasing the ease of traveling down wormhole chains, and the increase in players to wh space because of that, would greatly increase the amount of wormholes in every wspace system. A large majority of wormhole systems are always isolated in very small wormhole chains, rarely ever connected to any active wh systems. Overall there are not that many players scanning wh space daily, nowhere near on the scale of players that actually live in wh space, and nowhere near the active players in comparison to nullsec. Casual players don't do well in wormhole space, even if they are good at the game. What? http://i.imgur.com/E1rk7tY.png What? http://i.imgur.com/0RlYTkn.png What? Most people don't do that, that would take one person 2-3hours. Not every wormhole chain has large chains like that, most are 3-6 jumps before its just BS. And I'm talking 15-20 jump wh chains in every static.
Dude, I ignore those kind of chains on a daily basis, and scanning them by yourself is the wrong way to do it. As for fights, I don't know what to tell you. My corp used to live in fear of larger wormhole corps and alliances back when we lived in the C5. If you're saying you've found tranquility(ar ar), then you should sell that to some bears. Because that's hard to come by.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
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Jess Tanner
Hard Knocks Inc.
154
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Posted - 2014.12.08 23:41:12 -
[41] - Quote
I think I saw this in a movie once....
Go with Bob, keep Him always in your heart. He is your Sword, Shield, and the Knife in your back.
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Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
521
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Posted - 2014.12.09 00:54:51 -
[42] - Quote
Muha... :(
Oh wait lol I don't scan lol
I GÖÑ the orthrus
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Alundil
Isogen 5
785
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Posted - 2014.12.09 02:59:44 -
[43] - Quote
muhadin wrote:Alundil wrote:muhadin wrote:While the main idea may be too extreme that it would break wormholes currently. Making wormholes easier to probe/Distinguishing wormhole sigs from other sigs, would be a small but massive step in the right direction. First: -1, do not support this idea. Second: What "right direction"? You claim that people are not in wspace because they do not want to scan. There are thousands of other systems for them to play in then that require no scanning whatsoever. Wspace was designed to be different for a reason. Scanning for entrance/exit/content is part and parcel of the space itself. Wormholes don't open as much as they should. WH chains are not as big as they could be. By increasing the ease of traveling down wormhole chains, and the increase in players to wh space because of that, would greatly increase the amount of wormholes in every wspace system. A large majority of wormhole systems are always isolated in very small wormhole chains, rarely ever connected to any active wh systems. Overall there are not that many players scanning wh space daily, nowhere near on the scale of players that actually live in wh space, and nowhere near the active players in comparison to nullsec. Casual players don't do well in wormhole space, even if they are good at the game.
Wormholes are more connected now, post Hyperion, than they have ever been. Full Stop
We routinely have 2-4 connections just in our home system, not including static, from/to C5/C6/00/LS. Yesterday when I logged on there were 5. It is very common for multiple holes in the chain to have as many, or more, connections to other chains. The overwhelming majority of kspace systems are also connected to entire different chains as well. We routinely find those too.
I honestly don't know how you can type the letters that say "Wormholes don't open as much as they should." It is a quasi-random mechanic that is controlled to some degree by CCP number tweaking. But it is a fact that there are more connections in the chains than ever before. "It is known."
As for the "....majority of wormhole chains are very small" I think that's pure rubbish. Our siggy is almost almost an absolute sh!!tshow of connections by the time we roll it. We're talking anywhere from 20 to 40 systems jumped on a typical day in a good chain. If the chain sucks we simply "get the next one". Then there's another 20-40 systems. It really is far more active than you're alleging.
Comparing active wspace player counts to active 00 player counts is a meaningless metric in terms of what "should be." Those two areas of space are very different in terms of mechanic and the fact that wormholes are signatures is probably one of the smaller differences tbh. Highsec has more active players than wspace, 00 and LS combined. I don't see you (or anyone for that matter) making the point that things should be more like highsec. They are different for a reason.
I, and probably most wholers, actually prefer it that way. It is, after all, one of the many reasons why we have chosen this type of space as our home.
And casual players not doing well in wspace has nothing to do with scanning - regardless of whether they are good at Eve or not. They don't do well, in most cases, because there is literally no where that is absolutely safe (i.e. stations) in wspace. Constant effort and vigilance is a requirement to survive and thrive in wspace. There's no artificial holding area to store things indefinitely in the case of an invasion. It's do or die and the consequence of failure is to lose everything, permanently. None of which has anything at all to do with scanning.
So again, -1
I'm right behind you
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
226
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Posted - 2014.12.09 06:01:34 -
[44] - Quote
muhadin wrote:Alundil wrote:muhadin wrote:While the main idea may be too extreme that it would break wormholes currently. Making wormholes easier to probe/Distinguishing wormhole sigs from other sigs, would be a small but massive step in the right direction. First: -1, do not support this idea. Second: What "right direction"? You claim that people are not in wspace because they do not want to scan. There are thousands of other systems for them to play in then that require no scanning whatsoever. Wspace was designed to be different for a reason. Scanning for entrance/exit/content is part and parcel of the space itself. Wormholes don't open as much as they should. WH chains are not as big as they could be.
As the operator of siggy, IDK, I think you don't know what you are talking about. On average people map out chains each week about ~30 systems long before they kill themselves. |
NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc.
42
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Posted - 2014.12.09 07:13:27 -
[45] - Quote
Had Muha wrote this from a Hard K(n)ocks Alt it might have been more well received.
I think this would be a great idea. Just think rolling your static and everyone hop in Ceptors and Dictors and blast through the chain. You still have to map out your chain and make bookmarks so you know where your going. I would still take you time to jump into a wormhole say it has 5 wormholes you still have to warp to them and bookmark and update Siggy. You would not know what kind of wormhole it is that you are warping to. I think this still keeps with the exploration theme of wormholes.
In my experience from being in one of the larger and most active wormhole corp in Eve, our successes are due to the hard work of the scouts that probe every single day, every single time there is a need for the chain to be scanned. A very small percentage of our corp scans consistently. But I think if you took out the tediousness of using probes you would find more of your own corpmates out in the chain rather than pos spinning. We might have 25-40 active guys on commms and maybe 2-3 people scanning looking for something for everyone to do. Whether it be another active wormhole entity or an amazing wormhole ratting pocket. You would still need to use probes in wormholes to combat people down, and to find PVE sites.
Pros: More people interested in wormholes because no scanning barrier. That means more people in your corps, more friends to roam with. more active timezones! Larger chains - means more opportunity to find fights. More Nulls to roam! More Regions at your doorstep. Just imagine you are group A and you have group B, C,D in the chain, you could team up and do 2v2. Larger T3 fights, interesting dynamics of politics or say the opposite: you don't have enough guys but you could bring 5-10 people and group up and actually get a fight instead of pos spinning. Imagine all the bears you could find per day. You could actually cover a lot of wormholes by rage rolling and having a fleet of 6-10 dictors blitz the chain. Find nothing? Come back and roll. It would add a lot of danger to wormholes! Less time scanning more time shooting things.
Cons: OK you lose a core basic activity of wormholes. But is scanning something you actually enjoy? (shut up Belim) I enjoy discovering things in the chain. I can understand it is rewarding to spend 1 hour scanning a long chain and it actually pay off and you find a big fight. But why not save your self some time and get more fights.
For all of you wormhole purist/elites/bitter vets how can you say making it easier to create content is a bad thing?
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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Belim Rawne
Hard Knocks Inc.
2
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Posted - 2014.12.09 08:17:18 -
[46] - Quote
NoobMan wrote:Had Muha wrote this from a Hard K(n)ocks Alt it might have been more well received.
Cons: OK you lose a core basic activity of wormholes. But is scanning something you actually enjoy? (shut up Belim) I enjoy discovering things in the chain. I can understand it is rewarding to spend 1 hour scanning a long chain and it actually pay off and you find a big fight. But why not save your self some time and get more fights.
For all of you wormhole purist/elitist/bitter vets how can you say making it easier to create content is a bad thing?
No personal attacks :(
Also Scanning is easy and should not dumbed down even more. In my opinion it would make it way too easy. Even making the Wormholes scan res or whatever it is that makes them "hard" to scan down is dumb because you can allready see which sig is a Wormhole and which one is not.
I could also basicly scrap my Scout because i don't need to scan for pve.
If you want to map your chains faster train your skills and get a virtue-set. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
787
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Posted - 2014.12.09 08:40:52 -
[47] - Quote
Noobman, with all due respect, making it faster/easier/whatever to move through wormholes via no scanning needed... kind of like stargates.... won't result in what you think it will result in. At that point it is null with no local. From my time in null where stargates and jump bridges existed there wasn't some magical increase of pilots all going out looking for content. The exact same people who are out scanning and looking today would be the exact same handful of people out jumping gates and looking a couple weeks after if that change were to make it in. Those people are content creators. They are the rarest resource in Eve. Everyone else wants to play lol or dota or whatever else until someone else finds them something to do.
I'm right behind you
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