Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
447
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 22:32:17 -
[31] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:I'd like to see the Nestor moved out of the battleship class altogether and moved in line with the Orca so that is does for exploration what the Orca does for mining.
Drop weapon hardpoints and bonuses. Drop combat drone bonuses in favor of repair and salvage drone bonuses. Keep RR bonuses. Keep exploration bonuses (or drop hacking/archeology bonuses and up scanning). Increase SMA to accommodate 2 cruisers and maybe a frigate. 10000 m3 fleet hangar. Uses new exploration-related gang links. Fiddle with the other stats as needed.
Optional: jump drive with bridge capabilities (covops, of course).
This would accommodate both the solo and small gang explorers nicely.
So in other words a battleship from the SOE faction that could carry the smaller SOE ships around?
And why instead of a cov ops cloak, they give the Nestor an "improved tech2 cloak" mobility bonus like +125% base speed per Gallente battleship skll level when cloaked?
signature
|
Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises The Star League
11
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 23:32:13 -
[32] - Quote
I've posted it before here not long ago......
Other tweaks might be useful - but just give it a Fuel Bay and BLOPS-ability.
Then it fits the SOE-line (bridging the other two). |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1677
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 23:38:38 -
[33] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:craidie wrote:Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people. This is just something people are terrified of for no real reason. A Cov cloak would not break a BS since they still have the targeting delay and then they have BS level scan res to try and lock something also. All it would do would improve the roaming ability by warping cloaked. Same as the Black Ops should get the Cov Cloak. It's just something that makes sense but that people are terrified of with having never seen it. |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
270
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:00:44 -
[34] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:I'd like to see the Nestor moved out of the battleship class altogether and moved in line with the Orca so that is does for exploration what the Orca does for mining.
Drop weapon hardpoints and bonuses. Drop combat drone bonuses in favor of repair and salvage drone bonuses. Keep RR bonuses. Keep exploration bonuses (or drop hacking/archeology bonuses and up scanning). Increase SMA to accommodate 2 cruisers and maybe a frigate. 10000 m3 fleet hangar. Uses new exploration-related gang links. Fiddle with the other stats as needed.
Optional: jump drive with bridge capabilities (covops, of course).
This would accommodate both the solo and small gang explorers nicely. So in other words a battleship from the SOE faction that could carry the smaller SOE ships around? And why instead of a cov ops cloak, they give the Nestor an "improved tech2 cloak" mobility bonus like +125% base speed per Gallente battleship skll level when cloaked?
Except without "battle" in the name. Drop combat bonuses and even turret hardpoints. Explo-Orca.
Explorca!
Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1358
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 13:34:10 -
[35] - Quote
The nestor is unfortunately not as successful as hoped, as it lacks a reason for existing, low mass without covert ops cloak? Great for not collapsing wormholes too easily, no cloak so no one will take it out of their home system.
Logistics bonus and ship hangar? As expensive as a carrier and less effective.
Combat ship? Others do it better.
It is just not special, and does nothing special.
So, what now?
We are getting new wormhole space.
What is really really useful in wormhole space and visible from anywhere idscan range like a big flag?
A Pos and we have no personal pos.
Make the nestor anchor into a small pos mode,weapons disabled, built in refitting and storage just give it a force field when anchored like a small pos and "we have a winner"
[u]_There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE _[/u]
|
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3917
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:40:33 -
[36] - Quote
A 1,000m3 Fleet Maintenance bay would go a long way towards improving versatility.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3917
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:42:35 -
[37] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:If you're going to say "but what about application", I'll point you to TPs. Beyond that .. I don't think you want to open the Pandora's Box of "make missiles have the same modules turrets do". I did mean application, but yes - I do realize it's toying with Pandora's Box...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
270
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:53:20 -
[38] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:The nestor is unfortunately not as successful as hoped, as it lacks a reason for existing, low mass without covert ops cloak? Great for not collapsing wormholes too easily, no cloak so no one will take it out of their home system. Logistics bonus and ship hangar? As expensive as a carrier and less effective. Combat ship? Others do it better. It is just not special, and does nothing special. Just lots of nothing special....... So, what now? We are getting new wormhole space. What is really really useful in wormhole space and visible from anywhere in Dscan range like a big flag? A Pos and we have no personal pos. Make the nestor anchor into a small pos mode,weapons disabled, built in refitting and some ship storage just give it a force field when anchored like a small pos and "we have a winner" Ps it even looks like a pos if vertical.
I can see it tipping forward to vertical to go into POS mode.
Your idea makes sense, but it seems like it would be OP when used in fleets.
Nevertheless, let it cloak, scan, refit and repair in POS mode and I'll sign up right now.
Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
|
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
743
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:54:56 -
[39] - Quote
So Nestor is used as a very special guardian that can drop drones too, and usually fed cap by a guardian (with or without talismans). So it got that niche, would love to see more tinkering with those capabilities to make the Nestor generally worthwile in those situations instead of the current state of requiring remote sebos/eccm and remote cap to that extent to make it viable.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
|
Fin Diritez
Universal Defense Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 01:50:01 -
[40] - Quote
covert jump drive covert jump portal generator
40.000m3 fighterbay (just to get some ppl thinking)
|
|
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
407
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:48:55 -
[41] - Quote
Rowells wrote:was it ever fixed?
Agree, for it's price - it doesn't make sense. It's a niche RR ship... that has a ****** niche
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5359
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 03:02:44 -
[42] - Quote
I'd give it a role bonus to remove the targeting penalties for fitting a standard cloaking device, around 5k corp hangar and 20k-40k ship hangar.
Remove the hacking bonuses as those wouldn't fit the role as a deep space support vessel.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2011
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 03:14:32 -
[43] - Quote
The Nestor is a pirate faction logistics battleship. It isn't an ISK-efficient way to get the job done, and it isn't supposed to be. The only reason people consider it to have its own niche is because there aren't any other logistics battleships. If CCP released just one tech-1 logistics battleship, they would find themselves extremely useful as a heavy logistics tool that is much more mobile than a carrier while also being much cheaper. The Nestor is much more mobile than a carrier without being much cheaper.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
301
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 06:03:36 -
[44] - Quote
What it really needs is a cap battery strapped in permanently, and a slightly better agility, so that the increased mass of a prop mod doesn't absolutely destroy the things performance.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
|
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 10:15:02 -
[45] - Quote
+1 for the making it a black ops logi ship
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
222
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 13:31:56 -
[46] - Quote
People seem to still forget, or not realise, that the Nestor is a W-Space ship. Look at its mass; it's the only battleship that can enter C1 systems through the most usual WH's. Look at its Ship Maintenance Bay, meant for in-space reffiting of friendlies. Look at its RR bonuses, made for fast repairs, useful for any nomadic/invading fleet.
For a ship that flies in W-Space, the fact that capital ships can use stargates and the lack of a role bonus to the use of cynos is irrelevant. Can a carrier enter all W-Space systems so easily, and be so mobile, while requiring so many less skills? I think not.
Don't try to make it fulfill a role it's not meant for; it ends badly, no matter which ship it is. The Nestor is fine (unless you want to discuss PW, CPU, module slots...). |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
489
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 14:18:56 -
[47] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:James Baboli wrote:Kaerakh wrote:James Baboli wrote:Nestor: Keep hearing it is a wormhole thing and in use there, and in wormholes does quite well. Need more feedback about how it is used, and see if a way to keep its allegeded W-space use intact while making it useful somehow in K-space. My corporation(and previous iterations where relevant) thinks the Nestor is a hilarious waste of isk. In my opinion it's a worthless hull. I appreciate the sentiment, and share it, but I keep hearing people say they are "vital" in wormhole space and would like to hear this. Thus the alleged uses and so on above. Well basically all of it's roles and bonuses can be provided for in cheaper platforms that are also more effective. 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints, Dominix does the exact same thing with better bonuses and a fraction of the price tag and half the training. 4% armor resist bonus: Admittedly nice, but with 6 low slots you either limit your dps or tank there by nullifying one or the other bonus. An Ishtar would achieve the same effect without the sig radius or speed penalty without even touching a tank bonus. From a DPS perspective it can be loaded out to provide below average DPS and below average tank from a battleship perspective. Then from a logi perspective is shines considerably brighter, but still falls incredibly short. For half the price tag, three times the range, a cap transfer range bonus, a fraction of the sig radius, and better mobility, you can have two guardians do the exact same thing better. Then from an exploration perspective, a covert ops frigate does the exact same thing, can cloak, more than quadruple the maneuverability, a smaller destiny sphere(detection purposes), a fraction of a fraction of the price tag, and can fit small rigs which are far cheaper to interchange. Finally, a T3 hull can do all of the above for half the price and with considerably higher survivability. The Nestor is completely over shadowed and only liked by sentimental bears that don't make any pvp considerations.
I really have nothing new to say on the subject that I haven't stated previously.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
|
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
850
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 15:05:09 -
[48] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote: Finally, a T3 hull can do all of the above for half the price and with considerably higher survivability. The Nestor is completely over shadowed and only liked by sentimental bears that don't make any pvp considerations. You miss the point where the T3 hull can rep significantly less and at 1/3 the range making it basically useless (which is why no one uses it). Your comparison falls flat on it's face, I'm afraid. And what "bears" are using it for non-pvp related things? As you've said, for every combat related purpose there is a ship that outstrips it for massively less cost and risk that does the job better. It seems to me that the only people that actually use this ship are likely to be using it in pvp in wormholes, where it was designed to be used.
Kaerakh wrote:I really have nothing new to say on the subject that I haven't stated previously. One could question why you posted in that case. Just repeating the same thing over again doesn't alter whether it's true or not. You still seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this ship is meant for wormhole use primarily which, it seems, it's already useful for. If all those other examples are *better* in your opinion, what's the problem? Why don't you just use them rather than try to alter a ship which people actually use just so it fits your personal perspective of what you'd like? That seems somewhat selfish, really. |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
489
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 16:56:45 -
[49] - Quote
Tchulen wrote: You miss the point where the T3 hull can rep significantly less and at 1/3 the range making it basically useless (which is why no one uses it). Your comparison falls flat on it's face, I'm afraid.
Useless from a blob warrior perspective.
Tchulen wrote: And what "bears" are using it for non-pvp related things? As you've said, for every combat related purpose there is a ship that outstrips it for massively less cost and risk that does the job better. It seems to me that the only people that actually use this ship are likely to be using it in pvp in wormholes, where it was designed to be used.
As a wormhole player I can safely say that this abomination is useless for the previously stated reasons.
Tchulen wrote: One could question why you posted in that case. Just repeating the same thing over again doesn't alter whether it's true or not.
Because it's the same discussion again and the position of the Nestor has not altered in current gameplay since those discussions.
Tchulen wrote:You still seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this ship is meant for wormhole use primarily which, it seems, it's already useful for.
I live in a wormhole, and don't fight in blobs, unlike you.
Tchulen wrote: If all those other examples are *better* in your opinion, what's the problem? Why don't you just use them rather than try to alter a ship which people actually use just so it fits your personal perspective of what you'd like? That seems somewhat selfish, really.
That probably sounded better in your head.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
960
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 18:10:17 -
[50] - Quote
I post this in every Nestor thread!
I was thinking it would be interesting if it could bridge, but not actually jump itself (no jump drive) It would have to be bridged itself by another black ops battleship. This may require a reduction in mass to facilitate though (with a respective reduction in baseline HP).
I kinda picture a ship that was respectively battlecruiser size, but required Battleship skills with no combat capability (gives up drone bay for its fuel bay). I was thinking maybe 5-10K more baseline HP than the Guards/Oni's. But retaining the resists.
Something like
Amarr BS bonus 4% to Resists Gallente bonus 15% to Remote Rep Activation
Role Bonus 300% to Range of Cap Trans and Armor Reps 125% to Speed when using cloaking devices No targeting delay 60% reduction in Cap Trans activation.
Can fit Black Ops Jump Portal Generators.
Battle Cruiser size, speed, tank. mass (BC size + the reduction SOE get) Black Ops Cargo/Fuel Bay * No drone bay, Has no Jump Drive.
100% pure black ops logistics.
|
|
Akemon Numon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 18:32:35 -
[51] - Quote
Nestor Sucks please fix this mess. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
850
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 16:01:36 -
[52] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:Useless from a blob warrior perspective.
Nope, from pretty much anyone's perspective.
Kaerakh wrote:As a wormhole player I can safely say that this abomination is useless for the previously stated reasons.
Other than the fact that there are people using them in WHs.
Kaerakh wrote: Because it's the same discussion again and the position of the Nestor has not altered in current gameplay since those discussions.
No, you posted the same thing twice in the same thread. That's what I'm questioning.
Kaerakh wrote:I live in a wormhole, and don't fight in blobs, unlike you.
Unlike this char. I also live in WHs with other characters. Just looking up the char that someone posts on doesn't really give you crap about what that person (person, not character) actually does or understands about EVE.
Kaerakh wrote:That probably sounded better in your head.
Nope. It's a perfectly decent question which you've failed to answer. Perhaps if you tried to use the ship as it's intended rather than try to bend it to a purpose it isn't you might have more luck with it but then I guess one can say that about pretty much anything in EVE.
Good luck getting it changed. I agree that it's not perfect but I would say the issue here is 50:50; 50% the ship needs some love and 50% you need to learn to think.
Fly stupid ;) |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 16:12:48 -
[53] - Quote
When will CCP wake up and realize that CCP Rise does a very poor job.
He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake and flipped the ship on its head from what it was before and for no good reason whatsoever.
|
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1384
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 17:25:57 -
[54] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:When will CCP wake up and realize that CCP Rise does a very poor job.
He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake and flipped the ship on its head from what it was before and for no good reason whatsoever.
Hi Rod! |
Neuron Stew
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 17:27:05 -
[55] - Quote
The problem is battleships in general are lacking. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
328
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 17:29:12 -
[56] - Quote
Neuron Stew wrote:The problem is battleships in general are lacking. This is a big part of the issue. If you feel like helping, I have a thread in my sig I'd love feedback on.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
|
Ersahi Kir
Froosh INC. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
395
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 18:22:39 -
[57] - Quote
I see the nestor like I view a sports car with a tow hitch on it.
Technically utility was added. Realistically, they missed the mark. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6685
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 23:25:50 -
[58] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:I see the nestor like I view a sports car with a tow hitch on it.
Technically utility was added. Realistically, they missed the mark. I think you are lacking creativity.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
|
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
618
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 00:20:25 -
[59] - Quote
The Nestor, living proof that players shouldn't ask CCP to add new ships without specifying a role.
Astero and Stratios are cool. Nestor was a lousy attempt to round out the bunch, since making it cov ops would be hilariously OP.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 00:27:58 -
[60] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:What it really needs is a cap battery strapped in permanently, and a slightly better agility, so that the increased mass of a prop mod doesn't absolutely destroy the things performance.
Give it a hybrid damage bonus instead of the laser range bonus and a bonus for propulsion mods.
signature
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |