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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Soden Rah
Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
17
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Posted - 2014.10.31 17:33:02 -
[451] - Quote
Bjurn Akely wrote:I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance.
Ok... Great.
What's your style of fighting that you think benefits from these weapons? |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
378
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Posted - 2014.10.31 18:23:34 -
[452] - Quote
I would really like to see them (CCP) rework this into a feature in over-heating, for weapon modules, that would do the same thing as I stated before, maybe it was a wall of text, so for consideration:
Standard -> Over-heating -> Overloading
Standard = as is Over-heating = we all know this one that have done it and use it. Overloading = 1. damage = x amount of standard - balanced as needed but significant to be applicable to the use and risk/reward. 2. heat damage = x amount of heat - again balanced but to a degree that the amount of damage is in balance with the above and,... 3. Module damage from heat = no repair on that module, so you can fire as long as it is able, but damage is like ammo, and once it's burned out, it's burned out for good, and you have to buy another one. 4. Resists = since you are overloading your weapons, you are basically sending in over amounts of power to them, this has to come from somewhere, and this is where resists go down - you have re-routed the power from this to the weapons = you are now a glass cannon of sorts, (buffer tanks and all still apply, but resists are 0%) until you repair.
Now this can use all existing mechanics in the game, and doesn't require new modules, it makes the existing ones have an expendable mode of operation, where they then become like ammo - they are used up. This alone makes this concept better, it will drive market, as well as give players choices rather than limitations in the way they use existing ships and modules and how their tactics evolve, as well as making the expectation of what someone else might do tactically broader - since someone can now with the flip of a switch turn a ship that is normal or could be over-heated, into a very nasty but gimped glass cannon if the decided to up the stakes and risk it all on a single or couple shots (depending on how this is implemented) before they lose the ability to shoot and have to deal while doing it and after with no resists.
Optionally there could be a timer on the resists - as the weapons burn out or the mode is turned off, they could either come back online, or have a timer to come back up slowly to normal as the power returns to them... etc.
Thank you for reading, I hope this idea gains some +1s and support.
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Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
80
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Posted - 2014.10.31 18:25:50 -
[453] - Quote
Soden Rah wrote:Bjurn Akely wrote:I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance. Ok... Great. What's your style of fighting that you think benefits from these weapons?
Tanked HIC holding stuff while long range does DPS. Just a question of making sure the targets can not reach the DPS. . .
But it's a special case. Something that I foresee being put to use once in a while and not a regular fit. That thing is key. I think the people thinking this is to under-powered want a replacement weapon system. Something fitted always. I see it as an option used in special cases. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
330
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Posted - 2014.10.31 18:35:41 -
[454] - Quote
Bjurn Akely wrote:Soden Rah wrote:Bjurn Akely wrote:I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance. Ok... Great. What's your style of fighting that you think benefits from these weapons? Tanked HIC holding stuff while long range does DPS. Just a question of making sure the targets can not reach the DPS. . . But it's a special case. Something that I foresee being put to use once in a while and not a regular fit. That thing is key. I think the people thinking this is to under-powered want a replacement weapon system. Something fitted always. I see it as an option used in special cases.
Personally, I would prefer something like the mode-change for the new T3-destroyers. A mode giving more firepower while lowering your defenses. Practically what the weapons are supposed to be right now, just without completely dropping the resists.
But this is because I abhor extremes and would never fit Polarized weapons as they are now. I tend to like having a plan for emergencies and not having any resists sounds like just inviting disaster to me.
One test fit I tried used plates and two active armor-reps to give at least some survivability. But: It turns out I could fit the ship normally with tank and T2-weapons and would have ended up with more DPS. That's kind of what I mean: Why should I ever use Polarized weapons if the difference to normal weapons is so low? I can just fit 1-2 more weapon mods and suddenly I have more DPS.
Or I guess I can solely fit for damage on my Polarized-ship and hope I never get hit.
On the other hand, if those "glass cannons" see a lot of use in gangs and fleets, I'll quitely accept this. More stuff for my main to find while doing exploration. I just don't want Polarized weapons ending up so useless they'll end up shitting my part of the game, too. |
Benetavo Saraki
Kaede Industries
1
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Posted - 2014.10.31 18:57:09 -
[455] - Quote
Throwing an idea out there. My apologies if I missed someone else with a similar idea in the multiple pages of the thread.
I've seen complaints that the resists dropping to zero is severe compared to a not-that-stellar damage bump. Why not link the two? The weapon damage is buffed based on how much resist total you lost. If you have really high resists, you get more damage out of the polarized weapon.
Could be an interesting fitting dynamic if fitting for more resist bumps your polarized weapon damage above and beyond what it normally would be and still leaves you at 0% resist. And the real benefit of going the polarized weapon route, means you can buff dmg from dmg mods and resist mods without a stacking penalty between the two.
Chasing the Black
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2940
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Posted - 2014.10.31 19:05:55 -
[456] - Quote
what if you would only lose resists when you fire?
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
40
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Posted - 2014.11.01 15:15:16 -
[457] - Quote
Glad to see we can invent and build these things on SiSi....oh wait...we can't....anyone want to put money down on if we won't be able to build them come patchday? (i'm guessing CCP has stopped looking at this thread, so not worried about tipping them off to their usual mistake when releasing T2 items) |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3895
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Posted - 2014.11.01 19:56:26 -
[458] - Quote
Looking at the overall stats, it would appear as though the stats on at least the large Polarized weapons fall short of Officer weapons. While that does make sense, it also means that the DPS of Polarized weapons is more or less set in stone. So what we have is a series of short-range weapons that do more damage than comparable Faction or T2 versions at probably double what current Faction weapons cost.
As others have alluded to, the complete loss of resistances tend to preclude use of these weapons outside select mission blitzing and structure grinding. Consequently, they're almost certainly going to be cost prohibitive for ganking, PvP and general PvE use. While I appreciate the initial intent, unless the cost of these new weapons are brought down significantly I just don't see them being utilized.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4765
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Posted - 2014.11.02 03:03:04 -
[459] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Kerplakershtat Rova wrote:Do these drop total resists or just base resists to 0%? Given how it was worded in the original post, I'm going to say it sounds very strongly like your resistances are fixed at 0% and cannot be increased.
Soke people really should have paid more attention at math classes.
If a module adds 40% resist to a resist of 0...the outcome will be....0.
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
40
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Posted - 2014.11.02 03:39:48 -
[460] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
Soke people really should have paid more attention at math classes.
If a module adds 40% resist to a resist of 0...the outcome will be....0.
ummm, resists are not multiplicative (sp?)....they add the % of the difference between the starting resist and 100. installing a module that adds 40%, to a ship that has a 0%, will infact add 40%, since that is .4 of the difference between 0 and 100. Try this out yourself by putting a EM resist mod on a base ship, and tell me if the resist stays at 0, or if it raises to the amount of the module.
These modules however just delete all resists at the end-state, so nothing can raise them.
Anywho, can we stop asking the same question that has been answered repeatedly throughout this thread and get CCP's attention to the things that are still wonky with these new guns? |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2944
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Posted - 2014.11.02 19:48:22 -
[461] - Quote
polarized weapons won't be in the phoebe release. so don't panic
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3898
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Posted - 2014.11.02 21:05:21 -
[462] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:polarized weapons won't be in the phoebe release. so don't panic I'm unable to test with the current Mac SISI issues, so I'm not in any great panic...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Soden Rah
Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
17
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Posted - 2014.11.03 00:00:09 -
[463] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:polarized weapons won't be in the phoebe release. so don't panic
Well the OP in this thread says Quote:The new weapons as teased at EVE Vegas 2014 for the Pheobe [sic] release in November.
And the latest build of SiSi still has them listed on the market, and they are fully functional in game.
So everything from CCP says that these are due on Tuesday... With the one exception of the patch notes.
And sometimes they forget to put stuff in the patch notes.
So unless you have some other source of information*, at the moment it looks like they ARE coming in Phoebe.
And we can say hello to 1700+ dps Talos'.
*If so, please share. |
Rosita Renegade
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.11.03 11:13:27 -
[464] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-phoebe
no polarized for phoebe |
Soden Rah
Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
17
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Posted - 2014.11.03 14:01:36 -
[465] - Quote
Because they never ever forget to put something in the patch notes... That's never happened before...
You could well be right, that they are not in this patch. But their absence from the patch notes is not definitive proof that they are not in this release.
Especially as by this point SiSi usually holds the final build to be deployed on TQ minus the last couple of bug fixes. And currently on SiSi the Polaris weapons are included.
Of course CCP could end the speculation by giving us an update... Hint... Hint... |
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CCP Paradox
1328
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Posted - 2014.11.03 14:16:23 -
[466] - Quote
They won't be accessible on launch day, but will be shortly after. I am about to create a new thread on the forum about the new exploration site that you will be finding these weapons in.
The exploration site was delayed, but we are now ready to get feedback on it before we launch with it.
CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Banana Stand
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Soden Rah
Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
17
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Posted - 2014.11.03 14:20:08 -
[467] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:They won't be accessible on launch day, but will be shortly after. I am about to create a new thread on the forum about the new exploration site that you will be finding these weapons in.
The exploration site was delayed, but we are now ready to get feedback on it before we launch with it.
Thanks, for the update.
But it would still be helpful to receive some feedback from you on our feedback, weather it's helpful, are we barking up the wrong tree, and what these weapons were intended for by you when designing them.
Also, what kind of price you expect them to retail at... Although that might be something you could cover in your new thread. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
664
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Posted - 2014.11.03 16:46:52 -
[468] - Quote
Here's another semi-random thought I had whilst trying to make sense of these weapons: what if CCP is releasing these weapons in advance of some kind of new content in which incoming damage already ignores your resists? That would make these weapons relatively useful, assuming you could get into range.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3899
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Posted - 2014.11.03 16:55:38 -
[469] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:They won't be accessible on launch day, but will be shortly after. I am about to create a new thread on the forum about the new exploration site that you will be finding these weapons in.
The exploration site was delayed, but we are now ready to get feedback on it before we launch with it. Any idea on what the expected cost of these weapons is going to be?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Sir Livingston
Club Deadspace
269
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Posted - 2014.11.03 18:21:29 -
[470] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:The exploration site was delayed, but we are now ready to get feedback on it before we launch with it.
Is the new exploration site on Sisi now and if so, then where can I find it?
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Callic Veratar
639
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Posted - 2014.11.03 20:51:03 -
[471] - Quote
Any chance of also adding in Polarized Smart Bombs? Have them cut all resists that don't align with the smartbomb. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
866
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:01:55 -
[472] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:Any chance of also adding in Polarized Smart Bombs? Have them cut all resists that don't align with the smartbomb.
Such a weapon system would likely prove far too polarizing to the Eve community.
*rim-shot*
Truth though, do you really want to see RnK throwing a "Polarized" Pipe-Bomb? God save us.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
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Circumstantial Evidence
147
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:17:41 -
[473] - Quote
Thanks to Sugar Kyle for transcribing the first announcement Q&A at EVE Vegas: http://www.lowseclifestyle.com/2014/10/eve-vegas-2014-ship-and-module-round.html
Q: Glass cannons? Details? A: These modules will use current skills used for T2 weapons. First iteration is in short range for small, medium and large. The idea is that they will be better at damage then T2 but worse in range but better in tracking. We are still working on the balance.
Q: How will that balance with freighter ganking? A: Cost right now. But we are looking at the balance of using them when it comes to ganks.
Q: Will the resists reduce when they are fitted? A: Yes
Q: Where do you think people will use them? A: Faction frigates and things with current low resits. The goal is to see what people will make of this vs having an exact plan for them to use it.
Q: People will use these for siege fleets A: Yes and we are watching this
Q: So sniping? A: That is why we are starting with close range weapons first
Q: BPO's? A: Nope. BPCs from a rare exploration site.
Q: Can we use invuls and such to raise resists? A: Nope. They set resists to zero and there is no way to improve them. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
41
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:34:45 -
[474] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:The exploration site was delayed, but we are now ready to get feedback on it before we launch with it. *blink* *blink*
Wait, wth? Exactly how long will you be taking this feedback for this thing that may or may not even be on SiSi yet?
What is the point of this new release schedule when you just push terribad changes through on your schedule regardless. You simple avoid any feedback by 'not accepting feedback' from either not putting features that are being release SOON on SiSi to be tested, or by simply stating it, which you have numberous times when criticism was given on your little baby and you wouldn't have anyone saying your ideas are always golden (speaking to CCP in general here).
And how is QA and everyone else involved with CCP somehow "okay" with not releasing something on the test server until less than a week or so until it is planned to be released to TQ, saying "okay, we are now ready for feedback"....'oh well, your feedback won't really change anything before it hits TQ though....but best of luck!' |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3901
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Posted - 2014.11.04 06:02:08 -
[475] - Quote
I'm holding out for Polarized Geckos.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2946
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Posted - 2014.11.04 06:14:07 -
[476] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I'm holding out for Polarized Geckos. i wait for polarized target painters. Polarizing the target.
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1852
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Posted - 2014.11.04 09:21:47 -
[477] - Quote
One thing for sure.. scannign ships to find idiots that will use these and then suicide gank them (That will be extremely easy due to resists) to collect expensive useless mods to resell to new idiots, will become the main usage for them.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
366
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Posted - 2014.11.04 13:45:13 -
[478] - Quote
Soden Rah wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:Another idea might be that Polarized Guns are always heated. They will always create heat in the highslots when used, and they will always get damaged. Not at the rates normal weapons would get damaged, so they don't get burned out after 20-30 volleys.
But they would certainly be unsuitable for prolonged engagements. Also, while shooting with them, you could ofc not repair any modules as you're heating something.
That way you wouldn't have to drop all resistances to zero in order to 'balance' them. Maybe give them a penalty,similar like shield boost amplifiers have, that all other modules generate more heat, too.
Edit: Maybe even add Laser-like reload mechanics where you swap ammo instantly? Great. you just created weapons that would be mandatory for all small gang warfare. The only time these wouldn't be mandatory would be situations where you you long range weapons or you are expecting long fights. These are supposed to be niche use weapons, not general replacements/upgrades of weapons we already have. If you're fitting a large tank with these guns then you have failed to grasp the concept of a glass cannon.
If you really think that weapons that are as rare as faction weapons - and probably priced accordingly - will make it to be 'mandatory' in PvP than you have a bad sense for the average PvPbear and his risk-awareness. In their world, ISK-Efficiency is > all, and losing one of those ships would tear a hole into their killboard only few of them would dare fitting them. Also, while they would be better than T2 weapons, the moment an engagement takes longer than 2 minutes is the moment they are getting rekt.
So yes, they'd see prominent use on beefed up and pimped out kiting boats, that then could only fight for 3-4 minutes or so before they have to gtfo, dock up and rep their mods.
Edit: But at least there's an advantage to fitting them, unlike now, where they are just ********. |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3904
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Posted - 2014.11.06 01:52:54 -
[479] - Quote
So have these materialized live in-game anywhere yet?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3905
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Posted - 2014.11.07 02:27:14 -
[480] - Quote
Looks like this thread is DOA.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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