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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Shakira Khalessi
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:12:00 -
[91] - Quote
OP is right. |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
357
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:16:00 -
[92] - Quote
Shakira Khalessi wrote:OP is right.
Quite the significant contribution, isn't it?
And then people wonder why doesn't the average player bother with these forums. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2403
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:26:00 -
[93] - Quote
David Kir wrote: Eh...us? Does that include me?
Of course it does. I never said what it was that we wanted. You even had the gall to call me presumptuous after writing a post entirely based on presumption. Your just picking arguments now because your pissed that you got your face virtually slapped earlier. If you didn't want what Eve is you wouldn't be playing.
The point (which you so spectacularly missed), is that CCP need to cater to the largest group of people they can whilst alienating as few people as possible. And by cater, I mean give them what they want. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3392
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 19:50:00 -
[94] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Translation: EVE will die if it doesn't give us what we want.
Fixed your post for you. Games survive by giving people an experience they want. If you want to play a game that gives you all the things you don't want, then maybe you should get someone to shove you head down a hole full of dog crap (unless you happen to like that kind of thing). If you think it's nonsense that games companies should cater to their playerbase/potential playerbase then your an idiot. I didn't read the rest of your post. The stupid **** in the first sentence was enough for me to post crap about. Before you even try to defend it, how about you go and create a product that no one wants and see how that goes. Let us know how that works out for you.
I've seen brilliant, but this is Einstein level genius lol. So, "No one" wants rubicon, or EVE?
Yes, games survive by giving people what they want....WITHIN REASON. Lots of people want "I win" buttons, should CCP give people those?
EVE has survived longer than most MMOs and against all odds, sorry if you don't like it.
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David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:David Kir wrote: Eh...us? Does that include me?
Of course it does. I never said what it was that we wanted. You even had the gall to call me presumptuous after writing a post entirely based on presumption. Your just picking arguments now because your pissed that you got your face virtually slapped earlier. If you didn't want what Eve is you wouldn't be playing. The point (which you so spectacularly missed), is that CCP need to cater to the largest group of people they can whilst alienating as few people as possible. And by cater, I mean give them what they want.
No, it doesn't. You've already expressed yourself as contrary to Seagull's plan, I am not presuming anything. There is no we that includes both of us, as far as this matter is concerned.
"You do get it that these forums don't represent all of the EVE playerbase, right?"
This is a fact.
""A product that no one wants"? Oh boy, aren't you the presumptuous one. You know that yours is an opinion, right?"
This is a fact, I (and others) do want Seagull's vision, your description of it as being "a product no one wants" is false and presumptuous.
"Players who are satisfied by the current situation don't need to come here and tell you about it. Now those who aren't, those do."
This is also a fact. Satisfied customers have no need to express their satisfaction.
I see no major cases of presumption.
Remind me when did I get "slapped". Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2404
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 19:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:So, "No one" wants rubicon, or EVE?
Read my last post to the other guy who missed the point. It applies to you as well. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:So, "No one" wants rubicon, or EVE?
Read my last post to the other guy who missed the point. It applies to you as well. You two are meant for each other.
I didn't miss your point. CCP is already catering to the majority, discussing your point is fairly useless.
Seagull's plan doesn't exclude catering to the majority. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2405
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pro-tip for arguing with people on the forums.
Try arguing about things someone says, rather than things you think they might have meant. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Pro-tip for arguing with people on the forums.
Try arguing about things someone says, rather than things you think they might have meant.
Pro-tip about language: it is not an universal mean of communication, and very often it does not convey the writer's intentions.
Its interpretation is subjective, which means that it will often be interpreted in unpredictable ways.
Personal perception: "things you think they might have meant".
Your tip is paradoxical. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2407
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Arduemont wrote:Pro-tip for arguing with people on the forums.
Try arguing about things someone says, rather than things you think they might have meant. Pro-tip about language: it is not an universal mean of communication, and very often it does not convey the writer's intentions. Its interpretation is subjective, which means that it will often be interpreted in unpredictable ways. Personal perception: "things you think they might have meant". Your tip is paradoxical.
So in other words "I can interpret what you say however I like, nnnyyyyaaaaah" "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:25:00 -
[101] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:[quote=David Kir
So in other words "I can interpret what you say however I like, nnnyyyyaaaaah"
No, in other words "It is your duty to express yourself in the clearest manner, not my duty to find the exact meaning you want to convey". Which is a fact. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2407
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:32:00 -
[102] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Arduemont wrote:[quote=David Kir
So in other words "I can interpret what you say however I like, nnnyyyyaaaaah" No, in other words "It is your duty to express yourself in the clearest manner, not my duty to find the exact meaning you want to convey". Which is a fact.
Not it's not. 1+1=2 is a fact. Global warming is a fact. Evolution is a fact. That, is your opinion. If you didn't understand then you should have asked. Why I am even speaking to someone who doesn't even know what fact means is beyond me. If you have so much difficulty understanding, maybe you should go back to school or read a dictionary. Idiot. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:36:00 -
[103] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:
Not it's not. 1+1=2 is a fact. Global warming is a fact. Evolution is a fact. That, is your opinion. If you didn't understand then you should have asked. Why I am even speaking to someone who doesn't even know what fact means is beyond me. If you have so much difficulty understanding, maybe you should go back to school or read a dictionary. Idiot.
Aaaah, ad personam attacks. And with this, I can finally abandon this thread.
Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1553
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:44:00 -
[104] - Quote
JamDunc wrote:I'm not sure. They do seem to have been able to hold onto that 4000 max players online in 24 hours for quite awhile now. Seems like the fall has hit a bottom at least in the short term. The next few months will be interesting as the PS4 gets into more and more homes.
I f DUST was a dog, it would be kinder to put it down.
DUST is a dog... This is not a signature. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2407
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Arduemont wrote:
Not it's not. 1+1=2 is a fact. Global warming is a fact. Evolution is a fact. That, is your opinion. If you didn't understand then you should have asked. Why I am even speaking to someone who doesn't even know what fact means is beyond me. If you have so much difficulty understanding, maybe you should go back to school or read a dictionary. Idiot.
Aaaah, the good old ad personam. And with this, I can finally abandon this thread.
I think what you meant to say is "ad hominem". Which by the way, would imply you had an argument in the first place. Which you didn't. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:51:00 -
[106] - Quote
I do believe in this expansion. A lot of the big stink of Incarna was there were no FiS elements to it, or certainly not enough.
With Rubicon we're on the first leg of a journey to a radically different [I did not say: better, but I'm hoping] EVE.
The features announced are FiS through and through. You will get great new equipment and a totally novel way to frustrate the hell out of your opposition. I can definitely see this working.
I'm going to assume they have an arc for this, with a plan to implement steps through that arc so they get to go where they want to take EVE. I do believe that. I saw CCP Seagull at fanfest. I saw eagerness and the joy of working on an amazing product. We also get, and there's decidedly not enough of it, a female perspective on the development of New Eden. I fully expect to see that expressed now there's a woman in the driver's seat. And for all you neck beards who think women are too soft for EVE, I give you the words of Louis CK, our latter day philosopher: "A man will cut your arm off and throw it in a river, but heGÇÖll leave you as a human being intact. He wonGÇÖt **** with who you are. Women are non-violent, but they will **** inside of your heart." It makes me scared to have a woman at the helm. And that is how it's supposed to be.
Other than that, to dissuade you from the idea that I think CCP can do no wrong:
- giving Somer Blink all those shines... that was way too generous
- making Dust players whole again who were expertly conned out of their corp's assets by an EVE veteran: are you absolutely kidding me?
- the whole daft thing with impersonation. Seriously? You can get banned for impersonating yourself? That makes sense now?
I don't believe for a moment that CCP have lost their way. If you've slogged at a place like New Eden for almost 15 years, it becomes a lot more than just a fad. Other MMOs have come and gone. Other MMOs will come and go. EVE is for the long haul. I want to be an insufferable old fart when kids who are not even born yet finally make their way into the vast arena of stupefying splendour that EVE will have further evolved into by then and crush their precocious little souls as I extract their tears, the most valuable commodity in all of New Eden.
And all of you adorable smegheads want to be there too, and you know it.
Rubicon is going to be good. Give yourself some respite and stop whining about details. Look at the bigger picture, paint a larger canvas and see a path towards a bright future in this, the most fabulous playground on the intertubes today. |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:David Kir wrote:Arduemont wrote:
Not it's not. 1+1=2 is a fact. Global warming is a fact. Evolution is a fact. That, is your opinion. If you didn't understand then you should have asked. Why I am even speaking to someone who doesn't even know what fact means is beyond me. If you have so much difficulty understanding, maybe you should go back to school or read a dictionary. Idiot.
Aaaah, the good old ad personam. And with this, I can finally abandon this thread. I think what you meant to say is "ad hominem". Which by the way, would imply you had an argument in the first place (for me to avoid by insulting you). Which you didn't. You should have abandoned the thread after your fist stupid post.
ad hominem Latin [+ªd -êh+Æm+¬-în+¢m] adj & adv 1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments [literally: to the man]
"Ad personam" and "Ad hominem" are synonymous expressions. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17416
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:52:00 -
[108] - Quote
Let's seeGǪ
Does it cover a completely new direction for the game? Do we have a three year old prototype on public that has been scrapped? Do we have a lot of people clamouring for the content? Do we have a downward trend in population? Do we have a string of panicked attempt to reverse that trend with short-gain efforts? Is it the delivery on half a decade of hype? Is the final product less functional that the three year old prototype (i.e. it under-delivers on something already delivered)? Is it preceded by two years of near inactivity? Is it combined with an attempt to introduce a completely new business model based around double-dipping? Is it combined with a complete lack of market research? Does it ignore customer feedback? Does it ignore known player behaviour? Does it ignore the fact that there is a meta-game to go with the game? Does it break people's computers? Does it break old promises about the direction of the game? Does it remove functionality from the game? Does it **** off every third-party community project? Does it ignore or contradict core game design elements? Does it ignore or contradict game lore?
That's maybe Gàô of the boxes that need to be ticked before we're GÇ£about to repeat IncarnaGÇ¥. Being at the front end of what might be that half-decade hype doesn't even come close to start filling them in, and long hype alone wasn't what created the Incarna fiasco (PI had just as long a delivery, and only resulted in a shrug when it finally under-delivered).
The dynamics of the summer of rage is a bit more complex than how people tend to describe it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2407
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:57:00 -
[109] - Quote
David Kir wrote:ad hominem Latin [+ªd -êh+Æm+¬-în+¢m] adj & adv 1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments [literally: to the man]
"Ad personam" and "Ad hominem" are synonymous expressions.
Hey, It is your duty to express yourself in the clearest manner, not my duty to find the exact meaning you want to convey. Maybe you should have used the more common (read correct) expression.
Also, I thought you were taking the "high ground" and leaving? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
David Kir
Statement of Intent
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 20:58:00 -
[110] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:
Hey, It is your duty to express yourself in the clearest manner, not my duty to find the exact meaning you want to convey. Maybe you should have used the more common (read correct) expression.
Ok, I get it, you're a troll. Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
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Arduemont
The State of War.
2407
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
David Kir wrote: Ok, I get it
No, you really don't. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith Filthy Bastards
191
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
Rubicon will not be another Incarna for the simple fact that Rubicon is utterly lackluster in content, both promised and delivered. CCP's strategy seems to be that if they don't offer big features, then there will never be a big blowup. And thus we get our current situation - mediocre patches and a slow motion train wreck. |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:11:00 -
[113] - Quote
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:Rubicon will not be another Incarna for the simple fact that Rubicon is utterly lackluster in content, both promised and delivered. CCP's strategy seems to be that if they don't offer big features, then there will never be a big blowup. And thus we get our current situation - mediocre patches and a slow motion train wreck.
I keep reading this kind of comment and I'm getting a little tired of it.
It's not that you're not entitled to your opinion, by all means do express yourself freely. It's the straight-through-the-floor negativity that gets me.
So, do tell us, if it was up to you, your decision entirely, to be minutely executed by CCP: what would you want Rubicon to do for you? You are restricted by nothing at all. Go wild!
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Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Phobia.
255
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:13:00 -
[114] - Quote
I'm not a fan of helmar. Honestly after that huge fiasco where he almost resigned...really he should have resigned. anyways it looks like he is going to let seagull take his vision to new heights. I like this progress and I think EvE will be going on strong for years to come If Seagull's vision is a huge hit i think she should take the reigns of the company when helmar retires. anyways gl seagull. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2407
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:25:00 -
[115] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote: So, do tell us, if it was up to you, your decision entirely, to be minutely executed by CCP: what would you want Rubicon to do for you? You are restricted by nothing at all. Go wild!
I empathise with him to be honest. If I had to answer your question, my answer would simply be "more". All the changes they are making are great, well thought through, interesting etc. It just doesn't seem enough. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4683
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:38:00 -
[116] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Translation: EVE will die if it doesn't give me what I want.
It's nonsense, and it demonstrates than many establish players are too close to the game to see things clearly. Rubicon might not seem like a big deal to some established players, but that's just shortsightedness.
Wrong, you have no idea about what I want in EvE and it's absolutely not what anyone in this thread has written nor what any CCP dev has announced. I still play EvE well knowing I will never get that.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith Filthy Bastards
191
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:40:00 -
[117] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:Rekkr Nordgard wrote:Rubicon will not be another Incarna for the simple fact that Rubicon is utterly lackluster in content, both promised and delivered. CCP's strategy seems to be that if they don't offer big features, then there will never be a big blowup. And thus we get our current situation - mediocre patches and a slow motion train wreck. I keep reading this kind of comment and I'm getting a little tired of it. It's not that you're not entitled to your opinion, by all means do express yourself freely. It's the straight-through-the-floor negativity that gets me. So, do tell us, if it was up to you, your decision entirely, to be minutely executed by CCP: what would you want Rubicon to do for you? You are restricted by nothing at all. Go wild!
It's not so much that what's in Rubicon is bad as, with so many half-completed and broken features in Eve, they chose to do THAT instead?!?! |
JamDunc
Team JK
139
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:41:00 -
[118] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:It's just a law of symmetry.
How many times have we read people demanding EvE to forever stick to an early 2000 game play, where you MUST be super-social, super committed, join super corps, basically live EvE (this usually happens in pro null seccers vs everyone else)? Else you are meant to have a miserable life, don't deserve any kind of reward, should possibly die slowly eaten alive by scarabs.
But many know this is not early 2000 any more and the world has changed and with it the playerbase has changed as well. Many MMOs had to adapt to the new players RL induced necessities or died.
In the same fashion, the glorious pre-2000 developers days have gone.
Even CCP employees often blame a lot the elder CCP developers and their "spaghetti, inestricable code" and even design decisions. But then, THOSE were the old school devs with loads and loads of vision. Yes they coded in a furious and confused way yet THEY brought EvE to life not the SCRUM era employees.
Those early devs would also imagine those "Jesus expansions" and then deliver them - usually with tons of mistakes, incidents a la boot.ini but in the end the stuff was delivered. Over time natural turnover, promotion etc. made those early devs slowly disappear or lose contact with the playerbase needs. They slowly got replaced by "new gen" devs and designers.
Technically these are more orderly, more adherent to good practices, more... a lot of stuff. Yet there's somehow less "Insanity and genius" about them, the epic taste has gone. Sure, having 2 years of bugfixes is nice and all, but is this all what we can aim to now? It's little creativity at work here. Worse, they are losing contact with the ever running evolution in the rest of the gaming world. The gaming world don't care for academic achievements like proving a console game could attach into an existing MMO, it cared to get Wormholes. It cared to get playable WiS not a proof of concept engine.
Anyway CCP should try and get back some of those scarce visionary designers.
Imagine what a guy like Chris Taylor or Chris Roberts could do to EvE. People that could single handedly affect the gaming industry just because they thought farter and higher. EvE should routinely beat itself. EvE should not just have "emergent gameplay" but used to be and should return being "emergent developing".
Example: EvE started with a revolutionary concept - and underlying technology - to allow a one shard universe. That was emergent developing.
Example of the new course: TiDi. It's a nice concept but it's a "defensive, defeated guy approach" to tackle the issue it tries to fix. Had it been the "real" CCP they'd have concoted something absolutely incredible and bold, like i.e. introducing multi-threaded clusters, sub-grid dynamic players entities management and so on. All of this possibly created in a small room full of smoke, furiously coding 18h a day "a la old times" and possibly with who knows how many issues. But in the end it'd give a new generation of lag-less gameplay.
But as I said above, it's not golden times any more. Players would not accept having a less than 99.95% servers functionality even with such a feature being delivered. And devs would not accept the "18h a day in a small room full of smoke" old way of delivering stuff.
Therefore we are in a post-golden times gaming era, where players are not the ones we could have back in the day, nor developers.
One of the best posts I have read in years
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Rak Jakuard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 21:43:00 -
[119] - Quote
We're yet to discover what all of this is leading to, I think it's too soon to express ourselves on the possible outcome. |
JamDunc
Team JK
140
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 22:00:00 -
[120] - Quote
TBH its a very smart move by CCP from a marketing perspective. For the next 4 years as long as they produce 'something' every 6 months, the white knights will invade any conversation about lack of content and scream 'the VISION' in the same way as the forums were full of people screaming but Walking in Stations will be amazing for years.
This Vision buys CCP 4 years of producing pretty much anything without major complaints. The blowback if it proves to be smoke a mirrors will be huge, but most will have left CCP by then. Just like the old Russian 5 year plans that they knew would never happen.
I hope I am wrong, but CCP do not have a good track record of following things through or being able to focus on one idea for more than a short period of time. |
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