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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
David Kir
Tailender
50
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Posted - 2013.07.18 13:29:00 -
[121] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:David Kir wrote:Akturous wrote:First impressions, I like the changes, I particularly like the change to the Ishtar, not sure on giving the Sac more drones though, remember you can't balance everything with drone bay. I'd still like to see more capacitor across the board for all ships and the cap bonus on the Deimos changed out for something else.
Ishtar needs CPU, it's kind of ridiculous how short on CPU it is. I have no idea why it gets so little.
ALL HACS need better lock range. The **** poor lock range on these things interfears with their intended specialised role, for example the Muninn is supposed to be a sniper, but its lock range is 55km... Not enough.
Vaga needs more CPU if you want it to fit an ASB. It needs more PG as well frankly, the TE nerf has hit Auto kiting hard and it hasn't got the powergrid to fit Artillery, the SFI does a shield arty boat better which is sad. Unless you want to pigeon hole it into dual 180 XL ASB config.
Given the sort of mildness of these changes, I presume Tech 3's will be getting the nerf bat straight up the clacker. I'm quite afraid that the Vaga won't be getting any more PWG. Just think of it, it'd become a cheaper, more mobile Sleipnir, with the same tanking capacity. It wouldn't really be as strong as a sleip, and the command ships are going to be rebalanced later too. So you shouldn't compare them just yet.
Te issue isn't the comparison between it and the Sleipnir, it's the comparison between it and the other HACs. A 1000 dps tank is a huge thing, for a cruiser, and even more so for a kiting ship. The LASB fits work pretty nicely, in my opinion. Now if they fixed offgrid boosting, and thus all of those speed creeps you can find around, the Vaga would fall right back into its previous niche. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
162
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:It'd be nice to see speed, tracking and range on the ishtar. I'm guessing that control range bonus is only for combat drones, like the current one, which would make no sense. It kind of sucks to see a drone ship being either a sentry drone ship or a combat drone ship (nexor, dominix). Sentries are cool and all, but it would be nice to have better damage application from combat drones sometimes. the bay per level bonus also is a complete joke (medium rep amount plz, come on).
He said it works with sentries Trouser, it's on the 2nd page I think. I agree on the giving the drone bay bonus as native and adding rep amount or drone speed to give heavies some love. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why is the Ishtar not getting some fitting buff, the vexor has +100 power grid and +15 CPU Bingo...The Ishtar has always had huge CPU issues, and this does nothing to change that. And forget about the Ishtar being used in action that requires high speed. You can't kite with it, and you can't close with it to brawl. It would also seem that CCP Rise has a Sentry drone fetish, this is twice now we get a bonus that pretty much applies only to sentry drones. And that is weird considering the MWD role bonus all the HAC got.
well Fozzie started it with the trsitan :)
yes the MWD bonus kind of seems like a token gesture without any backing up whatsoever.... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:31:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus. This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler
Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.
close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?
did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.
its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg... ... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable |
NorthCrossroad
EVE University Ivy League
64
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:31:00 -
[125] - Quote
Pretty good changes. But I think you've forgot one race to make it in line with others.
Each race as usual gets either resist or active tank bonus. Everything in line except for gallente. Give one of the gallente hacs such bonus. F.e. put ishtar drone bay bonus inside the hull and give the armor rep bonus as a skill.
North |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
162
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:31:00 -
[126] - Quote
David Kir wrote:
Te issue isn't the comparison between it and the Sleipnir, it's the comparison between it and the other HACs. A 1000 dps tank is a huge thing, for a cruiser, and even more so for a kiting ship. The LASB fits work pretty nicely, in my opinion. Now if they fixed offgrid boosting, and thus all of those speed creeps you can find around, the Vaga would fall right back into its previous niche.
Till you run out of charges, then your stuffed. Balancing around the clearly obcene unbalanced bonuses that t2 links give you atm isn't a good idea. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1143
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:31:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:these or therefore lack of will have virtually no impact on there usage.
I was expecting a more extreme buff perhaps more like the navy attack cruisers ... boy i was WRONG..... 15 slots only its T2 why not the +2 slots that the AF's get over T1 frigs .. where's the advantage over navy here? 50% is too low without reducing there sig radius especially on shield HACS For the 150-200mil price tag these come with making them compete with Navy bc's for tank is stupid.. competing with sniping ABC's is even worse idea.
Overall CCP Rise back to the drawing board here Considering that we've been shouting at the top of our lungs for a year that T2 won't get buffed as much as T1 was, I don't know why you're surprised.
well thats easy... there is no sound in space. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
111
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:37:00 -
[128] - Quote
About the Ishtar:
The domi's bonus for drones is nice, but why is the slot layout still so heavily taylored towards shield tanking and the CPU still WAY too low to fit any semblance of a serious spider tank?
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Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:37:00 -
[129] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:these or therefore lack of will have virtually no impact on there usage.
I was expecting a more extreme buff perhaps more like the navy attack cruisers ... boy i was WRONG..... 15 slots only its T2 why not the +2 slots that the AF's get over T1 frigs .. where's the advantage over navy here? 50% is too low without reducing there sig radius especially on shield HACS For the 150-200mil price tag these come with making them compete with Navy bc's for tank is stupid.. competing with sniping ABC's is even worse idea.
Overall CCP Rise back to the drawing board here Considering that we've been shouting at the top of our lungs for a year that T2 won't get buffed as much as T1 was, I don't know why you're surprised. well thats easy... there is no sound in space.
i just noticed i meant to put the word change in after therefore .. LOL Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1144
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:38:00 -
[130] - Quote
Two step wrote:Sac should get some sort of scram/disrutper/web range/strength bonus instead of the mostly useless cap bonus.
or how about a racial bonus to em damage for missiles? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
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Sushi Nardieu
Bite Me inc Bitten.
142
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:38:00 -
[131] - Quote
The Muninn doesn't feel like it's going to change the meta at all. But that could just be me.
I quite like the changes. Was hoping to get more DPS from HAM SACs but it gets some other buffs which are nice too. - The Guns of Knowledge-á |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:38:00 -
[132] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:About the Ishtar:
The domi's bonus for drones is nice, but why is the slot layout still so heavily taylored towards shield tanking and the CPU still WAY too low to fit any semblance of a serious spider tank?
The ishtar needs a more unique flavour to it and unique drone bonus would be nice otherwise i still like the NVexor more.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Pesadel0
the muppets DARKNESS.
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:38:00 -
[133] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Pesadel0 wrote:David Kir wrote:Jureth22 wrote:thanks for ruining the vagabond.also,eagle changes are mostly insignificant.back to drawing board Ruining the Vagabond? I hope you're trolling: the contrary would mean you're stupid. Well iam with david restringing the vaga to a shield bonus is ****... And lol at people buying hacs at 2 weeks ago. Wait what? I actually like the new Vagabond, it looks like a beast!
sorry i mistyped i mean "i agree with jureth". |
David Kir
Tailender
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:40:00 -
[134] - Quote
Yanarix Blitz wrote:CCP Rise wrote: VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus. This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler
Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.
close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance? did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga. its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg... ... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable
Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir? A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter? Any Hawks and Harpies? Active boosting is for PVE?
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1098
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:41:00 -
[135] - Quote
The entire concept of the MwD sig bonus is total waste as a concept. On an AF, it matters, since the sig bloom change impacted how large turrets hit a MwD'ed AF.
But guess what. The sig bloom of the new buffed Assault Cruiser is STILL BIGGER than the sig size of a BS class gun. BS class guns will still hit just as hard as they did before.
So this bonus is meaningless. Please go back to the drawingboard and re-think all these changes.
I love to see a reason for people to actually fly these over the Navy counterparts. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1144
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:41:00 -
[136] - Quote
Carka Gerschen wrote:So just for my understanding. The Ishtar actually loses a slot and doesn't gain any fitting resources. It is already impossible to fit decently without going for a nanofit. I guess that is the thing you want with them, with no other viable options there.
Regards,
Carka
drone boats always have one less slot... the ishtar was op when it had 15 There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:42:00 -
[137] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Two step wrote:Sac should get some sort of scram/disrutper/web range/strength bonus instead of the mostly useless cap bonus. or how about a racial bonus to em damage for missiles?
I agree the sacrilege has more potential bonuses to pick from instead of being pigeon holed into a brawling ship which is a shame as if you look at other options for the same price ... Navy drake is so much better ..... i was hoping all HACs would be more vaga based .. i.e. speed and dps/damage projection ... also HICS outank these.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Pesadel0
the muppets DARKNESS.
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:42:00 -
[138] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Yanarix Blitz wrote:CCP Rise wrote: VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus. This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler
Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.
close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance? did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga. its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg... ... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir? A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter? Any Hawks and Harpies? Active boosting is for PVE?
So how is making the vaga more like a sleipnir good for the vaga? Because that is the only remotely similar ship in those ships that you mentioned to the vaga. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:43:00 -
[139] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The entire concept of the MwD sig bonus is total waste as a concept. On an AF, it matters, since the sig bloom change impacted how large turrets hit a MwD'ed AF.
But guess what. The sig bloom of the new buffed Assault Cruiser is STILL BIGGER than the sig size of a BS class gun. BS class guns will still hit just as hard as they did before.
So this bonus is meaningless. Please go back to the drawingboard and re-think all these changes.
I love to see a reason for people to actually fly these over the Navy counterparts.
yes either a stronger bonus to mwd ... or reduce their sig radius .. or both Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:44:00 -
[140] - Quote
wondering if this is a nerf hidden under the term "buff" cus that it looks like to everyone who's actually playing the game...
do you dudes have too much time/mone to think about changing working stuff instead of bringing new content? - cus the last 3 expansions weren't taht great content wise, and POS is still crap!
ohwait... i guess you'll start doing something usefull again once subscriptions gooing back and you realised you only producing hot air and ****! |
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Antoine Jordan
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:46:00 -
[141] - Quote
Any thoughts to adding a drone speed/mwd speed bonus to the Ishtar? would help across the board and maybe make heavies viable (haha ok maybe that's going a bit too far). It's really the only aspect of drones that doesn't have a bonus on the hull now.
also the CPU is pathetic for a drone boat :( Really needs some help there! |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
630
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:46:00 -
[142] - Quote
Ishtar's CPU is still VERY subpar. This is REQUIRED for it to be considered "Rebalanced".
The Vagabond is, imo, far too similar to what it was pre-rebalance.
Notice how the two Minmatar HACs have 3 and 4 medslots ? This isn't really...I mean, there is no novelty.
I heard you wanted T2 ships to be specialized. HACs are specialized as hard-hitting gankboats, mostly. The focus should be put on guns, right ?
You want the Vagabond to be the shield HAC. Let's make it so. -1 Highslot, +1 Medslot. There you go.
It's not a Cynabal, because it has an active shield-tanking bonus. It doesn't have a medium neut, which makes it a bit more vulnerable to frigates. But it has 5 medslots to either make it more of an active-shield-tanking ship, or provide a web defense versus frigates and such. It also has less drones than the Cynabal. All those things combined makes the Vagabond specialized as opposed to the jack-of-all-trades Cynabal. A slight PWG buff would help too, so that you can finally fit 425mms or attempt an arty-fit Vagabond.
The Vagabond has been overshadowed by the Cynabal and the Talos for too long.
What do you think about that ?
The Deimos' signature radius is over the top. It's even bigger than the specialized, long-range shield tanker Eagle. Considering the Vagabonds' sig and the Cerberus' sig, the correct value should be around 125m.
That's it for now, maybe I'll notice other weird things later. But we're on the right tracks apparently
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Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:50:00 -
[143] - Quote
Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.
Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.
Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs. |
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:50:00 -
[144] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Yanarix Blitz wrote:CCP Rise wrote: VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus. This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler
Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.
close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance? did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga. its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg... ... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir? A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter? Any Hawks and Harpies? Active boosting is for PVE?
must be the reason you see so many active tanked maels and proteus around these days... you sir are a ****** ;)
furthermore just because mael and sleipnir got a active boosting bonus doesnt mean the vaga needs one too. if i want active boosting i fly a sleipnir you tard guess why? cus it already has a boosting bonus. its abut variety of choices not making all the same, otherwise we could stomp all ships and restrict eve to nubships only
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David Kir
Tailender
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:50:00 -
[145] - Quote
Pesadel0 wrote:David Kir wrote:Yanarix Blitz wrote:CCP Rise wrote: VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus. This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler
Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.
close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance? did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga. its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg... ... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir? A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter? Any Hawks and Harpies? Active boosting is for PVE? So how is making the vaga more like a sleipnir good for the vaga? Because that is the only remotely similar ship in those ships that you mentioned to the vaga.
All of those are frequently active tanked ships. All of those quite used, and very much successful. My point is: active tanks aren't only for PVE, and I'm right. That is it.
You can still use your beloved Vagabond as you did, in that it hasn't changed by one single bit. But now you can also ASB it, if you're brave and good enough to do so, and be a very capable brawler.
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Anharat
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:50:00 -
[146] - Quote
The Ishtar change is making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Thank you. (Can i get a drone speed bonus instead of the extended drone bay ? ;) ) |
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:52:00 -
[147] - Quote
Voith wrote:Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.
Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.
Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs.
so true +1 |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1098
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:53:00 -
[148] - Quote
Yanarix Blitz wrote:wondering if this is a nerf hidden under the term "buff" cus that it looks like to everyone who's actually playing the game...
do you dudes have too much time/mone to think about changing working stuff instead of bringing new content? - cus the last 3 expansions weren't taht great content wise, and POS is still crap!
ohwait... i guess you'll start doing something usefull again once subscriptions gooing back and you realised you only producing hot air and ****!
You should listen and read the comments of soundwave and fozzie in any interviews they have given in the past while. They both have stated many times they want more and more situations for ships to blow up in space.
Hence the TE nerf, to discourage kiting, and encourage more in your face brawling. Hence soundwaves publicly stated hatred of off-grid boosting, which is slated for removal. Hence the "at best" neutral changes to HAC's. |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:53:00 -
[149] - Quote
Yanarix Blitz wrote:Voith wrote:Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.
Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.
Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs. so true +1 Gallente get ******, Winmatar get unneeded buffs.
WHO COULD HAVE FORSEEN THIS!!!111one
Seriously, just compare the base stats of the Vaga and the Ishtar, it is a goddamn joke. |
Anathmarr
Church of Unitology
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 13:54:00 -
[150] - Quote
Gonna have to jump on the bandwagon, haven't really gone through the whole thread, maybe I should but I'm lazy. Anyway, I love the sac for its looks and the idea of it, but it fails on all accounts, too low dmg and speed to qualify as an attack shi, heavy interdictors outdo it in a heavy tackle roll. Also the cerb needs a bonus to cap, ive never found a cerb fit able to to hold its cap, and if you're making it kitey you kinda need to beable to run that MWD and hardeners. |
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