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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Nicen Jehr
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
204
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:06:00 -
[91] - Quote
Good work CCP Rise, T1 industrials looks done to me! Little Things to improve GëíGïüGëí-á| My Little Things posts |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
452
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:07:00 -
[92] - Quote
Okay that's cool !
I still think that the badger mark II is crap, but now it has its distinct advantages and its niche, so why not :)
The other industrials seems very cool, except perhaps for minmatar, they are not bad, but their "race bonus" aka speed is a bit meh. G££ <= Me |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
9
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
I'm overall pretty happy with these changes. The distinction between roles is good, and it encourages cross-training to get access to the other industrials, where before they may have just been a stepping stone to get cargo levels high enough. I also love the idea of the HAM Battle Badger!
One thing I would have liked to see, is one hauler with a role to be able to haul fitted ships - maybe up to Cruiser/Battlecruiser size. Being able to move ONE fitted ship would be fine I think; right now only the Orca has a Ship Maintenance Bay to store and moved fitted ships. Others will have to weigh in on if that's too specific a role, but this could be a role for the Iteron Mk IV, in my opinion.
Also, I don't believe Nanite Repair Paste counts as a charge... I know that because whenever I move ships via Carrier, I can't keep any in the cargo hold.. only cap boosters, ammo, and scripts.
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Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
36
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
- Nice work on this pass! Streets ahead of the first draft.
- Could you edit the first post to be a little more explicit about which of those numbers are 0-skill baseline numbers, and which are assuming all-5 skills? It's hard to know how to interpret the posted HP, align times, special cargo bays, etc -- some of the stats seem poor-to-okay and some seem okay-to-great, depending on whether you've already factored in +25% or more from all the various applicable skills.
- I'm still confused about the Amarr and Gallente hulls having more armor than shields, given that it would be silly to armor tank any of them so long as cargo expanders are left in their current state. If you insist on leaving cargo expanders as-is and therefore expect all of these ships to be shield tanked, then why bother shifting their HP to armor? I suspect when people get these numbers into EFT they'll find that the Sigil, which you claim to have the highest potential EHP, will in fact be bested by the Badger and maybe even the Wreathe since those ships don't have to compromise between tank and cargo nearly as much.
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Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
9
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Oh, and since we're looking at Industrials now (Yes, only Tech 1 for now), maybe make a sticky note when you get around to the T2 versions... I think the Deep Space Transports could use the Interdiction Nullifier System effect, to make them immune to bubbles. Maybe trade the +2 Warp Core Stability for that, as pilots could always fit Warp Core Stabilizers themselves based on risk. This would make them a more defined "Deep Space" aka Nullsec transport ship which would have a useful role out there. Right now, everyone I know uses Jump Freighters or Blockade Runners. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
176
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:13:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I looked through this thread but didn't see any references to other industrial work. What are you referring to? I should be more careful about making vague references to future development. Basically, our extremely high level direction for the next while is focused towards building things - we have no idea what will fall out of this specifically, but the overall direction may lead to new potential uses for indie ships, which is why I felt fine leaving 4 of them more or less open to change down the road. Please don't read into this, there's nothing particular that I know of relative to these ships coming in the near future. As far as the the abuse of the hoarder ammo bay for compression - the difference in potential capacity and unpacked volume between it and the old Iteron V isn't enormous. Not different enough to create a new kind of abuse, though obviously would make for more efficiency. I'll make sure we talk about if we are happy with this and if not we can adjust the unpacked volume on the Hoarder accordingly.
Could you consider a discussion with the other devs and the CSM to change ORE compression into something that can compete with and make all compression "hacks" obsolete?
I see hardly any game balance or exploit possible with making ORE compression really extremely effective, since that would resolve the whole import and export issue. It would also boost the ORE bay usability, and allow for more future boosts on logistics.
Make them compete with any existing isk/m3 compression scheme.
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Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
172
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:17:00 -
[97] - Quote
The Itty III has a planetary materials bay, which is great, is that able to hold Command Centers? If not, could you make the standard bay a little bigger so the ship can hold at least 1 command center?
It seems silly for a newbie to have to buy a ship to launch his command centers, then immediately sell that ship and buy a different ship to actually run his planets. |
Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
36
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:The Itty III has a planetary materials bay, which is great, is that able to hold Command Centers? If not, could you make the standard bay a little bigger so the ship can hold at least 1 command center?
It seems silly for a newbie to have to buy a ship to launch his command centers, then immediately sell that ship and buy a different ship to actually run his planets. IIRC the Primae's special PI hold was able to store command centers, so I would assume the same is true here. It'd be nice to get confirmation though. |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
9
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:The Itty III has a planetary materials bay, which is great, is that able to hold Command Centers? If not, could you make the standard bay a little bigger so the ship can hold at least 1 command center?
It seems silly for a newbie to have to buy a ship to launch his command centers, then immediately sell that ship and buy a different ship to actually run his planets.
This is a good point. Command Centers are 1000m3, so maybe a static cargo hold of this amount? |
Fergus Runkle
Truth and Reconciliation Council
28
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:18:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dark Stryke wrote:Denidil wrote:Looks good Rise - I don't know if you saw my post on reddit - but looking at this numbers it makes my post even more relevant: The Ore Hold on the Orca needs to be a LOT larger... 300k m3 - 400k m3 given the changes to ore bays on the industrials and mining barges / exhumers.
Then let's talk about light carriers ..... :P The Orca and Rorqual both need revamps, especially the compression mechanics.
Yeah these changes (although fantastic, thanks btw) do make the Orca's bays look a little small for its model size.
Also would it hurt to give the Primae a 10k (rather than 1k) PI materials bay? It might get used then. |
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1211
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Anela Cistine wrote:The Itty III has a planetary materials bay, which is great, is that able to hold Command Centers? If not, could you make the standard bay a little bigger so the ship can hold at least 1 command center?
It seems silly for a newbie to have to buy a ship to launch his command centers, then immediately sell that ship and buy a different ship to actually run his planets. This is a good point. Command Centers are 1000m3, so maybe a static cargo hold of this amount? I would be willing to give up 5k of PI hold for a 5k command center hold. The final PI hold would be 56250m^3 and then the 5k command center hold, and then the standard cargo hold. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
209
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:21:00 -
[102] - Quote
Taleden wrote:I'm still confused about the Amarr and Gallente hulls having more armor than shields, given that it would be silly to armor tank any of them so long as cargo expanders are left in their current state. They're all hull tankers now, as any good hauler should be. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
26
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:26:00 -
[103] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: I would be willing to give up 5k of PI hold for a 5k command center hold. The final PI hold would be 56250m^3 and then the 5k command center hold, and then the standard cargo hold.
No. The main benefit of that hauler is to haul PI. The command center is a 1 shot deal. To lose 5k hold cause of the center would... Just no.
If the center can fit inside the PI hold itself, good. Don't chop the hold just becaus of the center itself.
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Sparkus Volundar
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
60
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:29:00 -
[104] - Quote
This reinforces the need for people to train the Gallente Industrial skill if those bays are worth using.
That runs counter to a successful theme running through the round of rebalancing to-date.
If specialised holds are needed/fun, they should really go on ORE hulls. Applied Creations is recruiting. Mystic Volundar says, "It could be you! " |
Calzan
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
WIN!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3260315#post3260315
I said I wont know what to think if Itty 3 became the PI boat of choice after my post. I have no idea if that post was read, part of consideration or anything like that... probably best that I don't know.
CCP Rise, you're alright in my book. I will do all that I can to ensure you get extra booze next fanfest at the very least.
Thank you. |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
434
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:38:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Ore hold includes Gas
Mineral hold does not include Gas and Ice products
Ammo hold includes cap charges, nanite paste, bombs, and anything else in the "charge" group I believe (I will confirm this soon).
We talked about doing a POS fueler (and I expect this to be the most legit complaint) but it just isn't possible atm. I can't go into specifics but please trust me here =/
Renaming strikes me as messy, but I'll bring it up with our story department and see what their opinion is.
rename please, yes, yes, yes
Test 1, 2, 3... |
Cyberin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:41:00 -
[107] - Quote
Battle Industrials reborn! Heck yeah!...
<3 CCP Rise |
Van Kuzco
Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno
67
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:42:00 -
[108] - Quote
LujTic wrote:I think the mineral and ore specialisations will be popular, but few people need to move more than 40k ammo and > 40k PI products sounds like you're asking to get ganked. I'd rather see the Hoarder than the Iteron II haul ice products (fuel) to make the Hoarder more usefull. Right now it's only good for cap boosters.
I am absolutely estatic about the PI hauler. I live in a WH with 9 characters doing PI and having to make less trips to a customs office is an absolute godsend.
I love you CCP Rise.
Also I'm assuming Cargo expanders and optimization rigs won't be affecting the specialized bays? Just like with the Orca? |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
434
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:44:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:lycaniz wrote:I feel that the mammoth is a bit underwhelming but maybe that's just me..
As for the hoarder, make the 'ammo' count for cap boosters aswell and it will have a use! but as it is it is pretty meh tbh. It does count for cap boosters. Edited OP to make that more clear.
can the ammo version also transport drones? Test 1, 2, 3... |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2221
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:45:00 -
[110] - Quote
I wasn't on board initially with needing special bays for the oddball ships, but I like what you've done.
+1, good work
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
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Rohas Shepard
THE IRON SKY Ash Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
Iteron IV for ice, ore and gas ? Finally! |
Auferre
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:52:00 -
[112] - Quote
Interesting changes, lots of new roles, and more differentiation in the old roles - I like it!
I also like the fact that there will be real incentive to spend a day or two training more than one racial industrial skill for different hauling purposes. |
Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach HELM Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:54:00 -
[113] - Quote
Much better - more ships for the hanger, more fun to fly and more challenge for the gankers. Good all the way around.
Now we need:
1) A Q-ship or two - surprise for the bankers 2) A jump tug 3) A warp tug 4) A 200,000 m3 (fully expanded) ship between haulers and freighters 5) A jump blockade runner - small, fast, tanked 6) A armored car hauler - something to move the really high value BPOs around 7) An UNREP ship or two 8) A clone hauler - beyond the Rorquel 9) Look in Jane's Merchant Ships for more ideas
Thank you for taking a second run at this, I think it benefits everyone in the game and at CCP and should bring more fun for all. |
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
210
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Sparkus Volundar wrote:If specialised holds are needed/fun, they should really go on ORE hulls. It would make a lot of sense all around to just transfer the Itty II/III/IV to ORE and require Ore Indy skill instead. It seems they "could" do that while not affecting legacy one-off ships like the Quafe Itty IV. New art for them would be awesome, even if it winds up being just three resprays of the Primae. But that's probably not going to happen. And it appears even a skill tweak and logo change most likely will not happen since we "should not expect to see a round 3 on this." |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
238
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
And CCP Rise knocks it out of the park. This is more like what I was expecting
Wreathe really looks like the little brother of the Prowler now, well done. Sad to lose the mid on my Mammoth, but worth it for the extra hauling, speed, etc. And the Hoarder: that is just wacky enough to work. I don't have any use for a bullet wagon personally, but I can see where it could have a role.
Well done! |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
199
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Posted - 2013.06.26 15:55:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:BADGER - Most potential Cargo and Base Cargo in role (Also battle HAM Badger)
Iteron - Good all-around (and Drones!?) I think I just wet myself.... Yeah. Yeah, I did.
And like the special bays on the extra haulers. Ya done good, boy!
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
1365
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
Hm a few more answers:
Ammo hold will not fit drones
Only the first group is changed to 6au. Maybe I'll update OP with the value listed for the other roles.
All of the stats in OP are base stats with no skills taken into account (except for the potential capacity number listed after base capacity) - More armor than shields is bacause thats how the racial design works usually, no reason to change it here just because you will usually have expanders fit.
Expanders will not affect the new bays.
The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that.
Please don't expect name changes or art changes. I understand why you would want this but I just don't think its going to happen. We aren't going to just call Iterons ORE ships and leave the art the same, and we also aren't going to invest art resources in new modeling (or we would have made extra haulers for Amarr/Caldari), so they will be staying where they are. Name changes are slightly more realistic, but I still doubt the benefit would outweigh the harm. I will still investigate this.
Very happy with your reaction, glad we could figure this out. |
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Denidil
Turalyon Plus
598
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:03:00 -
[118] - Quote
Kil2.. erg Rise .... Orca.. Ore Bay capacity - come on man i've tried to talk to you about this over three different platforms. Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
Siddicus
Nation of Sidd Order of the Exalted
2
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:04:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
The PI bay will not hold command centers, and I don't think we'll add a bay for that.
It doesn't need to have another bay for it, just to allow it in the current one it has =( Adding the ability to fit Command Centers into the bay will increase its usefulness significantly, and in the end, isn't that the goal of these changes? |
Denidil
Turalyon Plus
598
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:07:00 -
[120] - Quote
didn't the Primae's bay hold either? Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
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