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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:37:00 -
[1231] - Quote
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:4 weeks w/o breaking a sweat? You serious? Please send me an evemon plan for that char.
I don't use evemon, but a passive Drake with meta4 tank/launchers will be more than enough for 4/10s and doesn't take an eternity to train. Don't nail me on the 4 weeks, my point is that these complexes are very easy to do. I wish I were a cat. That way, I could kill things and people would applaud - instead of screaming out "OH GOD NO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1041
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:55:00 -
[1232] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Apparently you did not look at the training time of the new skill requirements, they are about the same amount of time now as they were before. How does that make it any easier? You are right, they switched the prerequisites to something more useful. My bad. None of the new skills are any more useful than the old ones, with the exception of assault ships which had no bearing on the effectiveness of HAC. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1041
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:02:00 -
[1233] - Quote
A thought of DED complexes, loot, location and farming. The eve wiki states that 1/10 Frigates 2/10 Destroyers 3/10 Cruisers 4/10 Battlecruisers 5/10 Battleships. What if the were true to the point of exclusion, a 4/10 would only allow Battlecruisers and Advanced Battlecruisers in, a 5/10 would only allow Battleships and advanced Battleships, ect. The loot tables would be set on the security status they were in, High C-type modules, low B-type modules, empire null a-type modules, sov X-type modules. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:07:00 -
[1234] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:None of the new skills are any more useful than the old ones, with the exception of assault ships which had no bearing on the effectiveness of HAC.
Recons: Cloaking IV is immensely useful, especially for the Force recons, the Covert Ops squill isn't HICs: Grav Physics IV is required for the Bubblegen, so adding it as prereq is more useful than Weapon Upgrades V Command Ships: The Warfare skills are more useful for a CS than the HAC/Logistics skill I wish I were a cat. That way, I could kill things and people would applaud - instead of screaming out "OH GOD NO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1041
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:09:00 -
[1235] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:None of the new skills are any more useful than the old ones, with the exception of assault ships which had no bearing on the effectiveness of HAC. Recons: Cloaking IV is immensely useful, especially for the Force recons, the Covert Ops squill isn't HICs: Grav Physics IV is required for the Bubblegen, so adding it as prereq is more useful than Weapon Upgrades V Command Ships: The Warfare skills are more useful for a CS than the HAC/Logistics skill My apologies, I was looking at Heavy Assault ships. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:30:00 -
[1236] - Quote
4/10s will allow BCs and Orcas, but not a T3? .... That's just silly and makes no sense.
I completely understand the problem with T3s in hi-sec. I use a Tengu all the time, and it is utterly broken for hi-sec exploration. But this is a typical "old-skool CCP" hamfisted fix. Instead of addressing the problem, they smash the symptom as hard as they can with a nerfbat. The answer is simple. Just lower the rewards in hi-sec and increase them in low/null. There is no reason at all that 500mil mods should be dropping in hi-sec. None. If you remove the ridiculously profitability, then the experienced T3 pilots aren't going to spend time probing them down, thus allowing the up-and-coming noob to cut his teeth on hi-sec plexes.
And note that I say this as somebody who is a posterboy for poor sportsmanship in hi-sec exploration. I will jump into a site some poor scrub is doing and race past him to the end. I will steal juicy mods from a faction wreck and dare the poor ******* to engage me. And I will do it with no qualms whatsoever. Cuz this is EvE. There is nice expensive loot to be had in hi-sec, and without hesitation I will stomp on the little guy to take it from him. But remove that nice loot, and I'll go elsewhere. |
Sylvia Nardieu
audacity.
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:35:00 -
[1237] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: I don't use evemon, but a passive Drake with meta4 tank/launchers will be more than enough for 4/10s and doesn't take an eternity to train. Don't nail me on the 4 weeks, my point is that these complexes are very easy to do.
All right, I agree that 4/10's might be fairly easy even for a relatively new character, but how is that fact in any way related with these changes? If anything, it only serves to show how unnecessary changes are since you can get to a level playing field fairly quickly. First and foremost, we should ask what is the problem being addressed with these changes and whether it is being solved. Presumably, the problem is farming and storming of these plexes by older/more experienced characters. Currently they are using tech 3's for that, but they could be use pirate or tech2 cruisers for what is worth and still strom em faster then your average newbie. So, you see, the problem is not about whether tech 3's should be allowed into those sites, it's about removing or at least reducing the possibility of farming playstyle.
Are they adressing that problem? I don't think so.
There are many different (and more creative) options for solving farming issues without reducing usability of tech 3's in low sec, I hope that my previous posts have provided some of those potential solutions. Unfortunately, it seems that making one variable random (sig strength) is harder then removing a potential state from another variable altogether (tech3 access to these plexes) without considering wider implications of such moves. Again, I'm all against farming - I was in favour of removal of static deds from high and lowsec and think that it would be best to prevent people from filtering signatures in order to find juicy stuff as soon as possible. Make explorers sweat it out in order to find good stuff, but also let them use the best tools out there. I mean, while at it why not remove virtue implants, sister probes and modules or anything else that can provide 'unfair' advantage. Its not like tech 3's are premium items available only to selected few. If you're serious about exploration, you'll train for them, the same way you'll train for a guardian if you want to provide armor fleet logistics. Its simple as that. |
MIkhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings
48
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 12:58:00 -
[1238] - Quote
CCP, what problem does this fix?
Why would you make changes to the probes themselves to make them easier to use, then eliminate the need to use them in the first place by having the sites show up on a UI? I understand that they then have to be probed down, but the very fact that these things display on your HUD as you jump into a system seems to be totally contradictory to the idea of exploration. There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared.-á |
Noztra Ernaga
m o t i o n
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:33:00 -
[1239] - Quote
The problem is that I do not know what to do next.
Replacing my Tengu with a Drake is indeed a solution unless they decide to ban BCs later as well...
It is not so easy when precious time is involved (skill training). For me this is a game breaking change from exploration perspective and am affraid of another attack from the devs in the future. I don't have 60M SP and cannot fly every other ship, so my Tengu training is a complete waste. Got sick of missions, dedicated over two months of training to Tengu to be able to start with exploration and now it's useless. If I had known this, I would have trained Drake from the start and would have ended up with a ship sutiable for high-sec and low-sec. This exactly was my Tengu (high-sec and low-sec exploration ship), but now I am left with only a low-sec boat in my hands... |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 13:48:00 -
[1240] - Quote
If you can fly a Tengu you can fly a Gila, which is more than capable of doing 4/10s. Stop acting like the world is ending. |
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Tzu Wu
The 51st Corp The 51st Alliance of Internet Spaceship Pilots
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 16:42:00 -
[1241] - Quote
Durzel wrote:If you can fly a Tengu you can fly a Gila, which is more than capable of doing 4/10s. Stop acting like the world is ending.
That isnt the point |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
73
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 17:29:00 -
[1242] - Quote
Whats wrong with "farming" 4/10s? People farm missions and incursions in hisec with any ship they want. They generate ISK out of thin air while doing so. 4/10s in certain areas of space can drop modules that the market has deemed are worth 400-500mil. So what. So people running those sites are traveling around, competing with each other, and then interacting with the market. Rather than sitting around generating ISK at their leisure. Sounds like the least broken form of hisec PvE to me.
Its also fun. You will not find a race to the loot in lowsec. Just sitting around cloaked wasting time, or getting ganked. Not as exciting or fun. Not conducive to those with little play time.
You can't balance the game on what prices modules sell for on the market. Prices change and are governed by several completely unrelated factors. If you move 4/10s to lowsec for example, its not going to change the fact that nobody cares about 4/10s outside of Guristas and Angels. If you ban T3s, you're mostly just banning the Tengu, nobody is running the sought after 4/10s in a Proteus or a Legion if they don't want to lose sites. And as I stated before, I can beat Tengus to loot in 4/10s, Tengus are just popular because they are convenient. They aren't so hot at missions anymore, they're crap for incursions, and they're banned from exploration. I feel bad for people that want to fly Tengus in hisec. They've finally been made completely useless in hisec in a backwards effort to balance out... competition? popularity? fun? convenience? I have no idea...
A unique situation has arisen based on value that the players/market have assigned to certain items, creating fierce competition and fun PvE that isn't focused on shooting gobs of red crosses, or marred by mixing direct PvP with PvE and all the problems that brings, and people want to flatten it out and make things more uniform. |
Tzu Wu
The 51st Corp The 51st Alliance of Internet Spaceship Pilots
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:07:00 -
[1243] - Quote
[quote=Unezka Turigahl]Whats wrong with "farming" 4/10s? People farm missions and incursions in hisec with any ship they want. They generate ISK out of thin air while doing so. 4/10s in certain areas of space can drop modules that the market has deemed are worth 400-500mil. So what. So people running those sites are traveling around, competing with each other, and then interacting with the market. Rather than sitting around generating ISK at their leisure. Sounds like the least broken form of hisec PvE to me.
This sums up my feelings about it as well.Hisec incursions are Ok but not hisec exploration? Wheres the reasoning behind this? Oh it's too easy you say? So is an incursion with logi V pilots repping you non-stop. |
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies Happy Cartel
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:13:00 -
[1244] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Rammix wrote:Sugar Kyle wrote:What about the magically reappearing probes when one jumps system? Forgetting probes caused all sorts of cascades from not being able to find targets due to derp to getting locked into wormholes and having to figure out ways to get out or be rescued. -- THIS. You took away a part of gameplay, which often was a source of some player interactions. Please give it back. BTW, currently on SiSi if you manually call your probes back you have to wait before they return. But if you just leave the system, you get them back instantly. Very odd, if not more. p.s. The same about probes' lifespan. They need to be mortal. By the same reasons. THIS ten times over. even disregarding the use case of deliberately placing probes in a system for strategic reasons, forgetting your probes is not a bug in the UI; it's you being bad at the game you are playing and it SHOULD be punished.
+1
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SFM Hobb3s
Perkone Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:16:00 -
[1245] - Quote
Every once in a while I find myself doing a period of hisec exploration. Just resubbed so I'm bulking up the wallet a bit before heading back to null.
And I've done my fair share of low and null explo as well.
Some of the most adrenaline-filled fun I've had is getting into a GSO only to find another t3 there, and then competing with them for the bacon at the end. The risk of some good pvp here is a lot higher than some might expect, especially if I or the other guy decide to steal from the can at the end.
Well I suppose now that t3's won't be allowed it'll be a lot quicker to kill whoever tries stealing those cans. Doubtul this nerf would stop any of this farming behaviour though. There will be a very SHORT period of adaptation and things will be the same again. Maybe even worse!
All those whiners wanting to pull more targets into lowsec....you know, it's usually not worth the time it takes to complete any Watch or (especially) Vigil escalations. More times than not, no loot drops. So all the arguments about the payout for risk are...invalid. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:27:00 -
[1246] - Quote
The CCP product team (those driving the direction of this game) - must not play this game.
concerning T3 - as someone stated before, just rework the loot tables to only allow the magical loot to drop in lowsec and nullsec. thats it, problem solved. you will never see another t3 in any highsec plex again. no need to rework the gates.
. . . . . .
Now back to the main topic from which this thread has been derailed.. actual probing mechanics...
Please CCP, reconsider the removal of Deep Space Probes, the mechanic that replaces them is not there.... AND please rework your current probe launch code to allow 2 or 3 saved user defined launch patterns instead of that 8 probe launch solution you currently have out there... |
Myrkala
Royal Robot Ponies Happy Cartel
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:59:00 -
[1247] - Quote
I've tested the probing mechanics, and I do not like the new controls at all, it feels like I'm moving one probe around, the scaling and positioning controls are the worst.
I'd really like to read the user stories behind these changes. It definitely feels like they are dumbing down the probe mechanics.
Why the requirement of having 7 probes ? Is it because of a code smell?
I get how a single core probe might not be useful after these changes, but if I'm not mistaken its possible to scan down a signature with just 4 probes. Why remove that?
Why do the probes need to magically reappear in our cargo holds when we jump/dock?
I really don't get it, if you forget your probes. they should be left behind. It allows for more player interactions in many ways! You guys also do realize there might be a few reasons why people WANT to leave probes behind? I'm baffled why you think its better to cater to forgetful people.
|
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:23:00 -
[1248] - Quote
Myrkala wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Rammix wrote:Sugar Kyle wrote:What about the magically reappearing probes when one jumps system? Forgetting probes caused all sorts of cascades from not being able to find targets due to derp to getting locked into wormholes and having to figure out ways to get out or be rescued. -- THIS. You took away a part of gameplay, which often was a source of some player interactions. Please give it back. BTW, currently on SiSi if you manually call your probes back you have to wait before they return. But if you just leave the system, you get them back instantly. Very odd, if not more. p.s. The same about probes' lifespan. They need to be mortal. By the same reasons. THIS ten times over. even disregarding the use case of deliberately placing probes in a system for strategic reasons, forgetting your probes is not a bug in the UI; it's you being bad at the game you are playing and it SHOULD be punished. +1 Also leaving probes were good for finding quick undock save spots. So yeah instantly back probes are not so cool.
About 4/10 like many people before me said it would be great if you just place them in low sec . |
Perris Korat
PKor A.T. Metals and Mechanical The Interstellar Contract Agency
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:29:00 -
[1249] - Quote
CCP!!
This minimum probe amount requirement to launch probes HAS to change. Either that, or you need to make sure that probers know well in advance that they cannot probe without having 8 probes onboard their ship.
I have always used 5 probes to scan. I am in a WH, in a probing ship with only 5 probes onboard, just like I have always been for the last two years. When I launch SiSi, currently I am unable to probe my way out of this WH, because I can't launch ANY probes due to the minimum restriction. I don't have access to more probes. I am in a WH.
Honestly, these probing changes feel like you guys came up with some new gameplay ideas, and you're modifying the basics of probing to suit this new gameplay without considering all the other ways people have been using the tools since forever. When you made the switch to the 8th probe, you made some people happy, but you have to fix it so people can use any amount of probes they want, whether it's 8 or 5 or 1.
Please fix this ridiculously broken change.
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Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
751
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:05:00 -
[1250] - Quote
I agree that only being able to launch a predefined number of probes is a negative. As of now the only way to get around this restriction is to launch the preset 8, recall the number you don't want to use then, adjust the probes manually. This isn't a time saver; it's a time waster.
Today I finally found a data site to test the new mechanics. It was a hugely frustrating experience to say the least. After "playing" the hacking mini game (which seemed to me to involve no skill at all, just a bunch of random clicking) I got the mini can explosion. The cans are so small that I could barely see them as they were ejected into space. As a result many of them were out of proximity to my ship and had disappeared before I could act to try to retrieve any. Not only are they small and difficult to see they also move pretty quickly. The end result was that I only captured 2 mini cans (one contained datasheets, the other contained electronic parts).
The whole ordeal left a bad taste in my mouth. If this is what we're being forced into then at least give us decent rewards for putting up with the major frustrations of using the new system. The paltry amount of items I recovered didn't justify the time I spent and certainly wouldn't justify having multiple people involved.
I'm afraid, however, that it's too late in the process for any of these major pains to be corrected before Odyssey's release. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
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Tzu Wu
The 51st Corp The 51st Alliance of Internet Spaceship Pilots
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:28:00 -
[1251] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Every once in a while I find myself doing a period of hisec exploration. Just resubbed so I'm bulking up the wallet a bit before heading back to null. And I've done my fair share of low and null explo as well. Some of the most adrenaline-filled fun I've had is getting into a GSO only to find another t3 there, and then competing with them for the bacon at the end. The risk of some good pvp here is a lot higher than some might expect, especially if I or the other guy decide to steal from the can at the end. Well I suppose now that t3's won't be allowed it'll be a lot quicker to kill whoever tries stealing those cans. Doubtul this nerf would stop any of this farming behaviour though. There will be a very SHORT period of adaptation and things will be the same again. Maybe even worse! All those whiners wanting to pull more targets into lowsec....you know, it's usually not worth the time it takes to complete any Watch or (especially) Vigil escalations. More times than not, no loot drops. So all the arguments about the payout for risk are...invalid.
This.Had it happen today,overloaded my mwd guy still beat me,was going to loot him but got to it 1 second before I could.We need more stories like this.CCP seriously needs to rethink this "expansion" |
Space Wanderer
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:30:00 -
[1252] - Quote
Perris Korat wrote:This minimum probe amount requirement to launch probes HAS to change.
Agreed. The scanning mechanic requires only 4 probes to scan down a sig, and they still do. If for any reason I lose some of the probes I don't want to get stuck in a WH just because CCP decided that the probe launcher wouldn't be able to launch only 4 probes....
For god's sake, what are you thinking at CCP to have come up with so many sandbox-killing changes to the scanning interface?!? |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1044
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:25:00 -
[1253] - Quote
Tzu Wu wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:Every once in a while I find myself doing a period of hisec exploration. Just resubbed so I'm bulking up the wallet a bit before heading back to null. And I've done my fair share of low and null explo as well. Some of the most adrenaline-filled fun I've had is getting into a GSO only to find another t3 there, and then competing with them for the bacon at the end. The risk of some good pvp here is a lot higher than some might expect, especially if I or the other guy decide to steal from the can at the end. Well I suppose now that t3's won't be allowed it'll be a lot quicker to kill whoever tries stealing those cans. Doubtul this nerf would stop any of this farming behaviour though. There will be a very SHORT period of adaptation and things will be the same again. Maybe even worse! All those whiners wanting to pull more targets into lowsec....you know, it's usually not worth the time it takes to complete any Watch or (especially) Vigil escalations. More times than not, no loot drops. So all the arguments about the payout for risk are...invalid. This.Had it happen today,overloaded my mwd guy still beat me,was going to loot him but got to it 1 second before I could.We need more stories like this.CCP seriously needs to rethink this "expansion" It just happens to me the other day also, I was doing a serpentis narcotics warehouse, I am halfway through the rats in the last room and a tengu warps in, adrenaline shoots through me, I knew what I needed to do, I set my guns at the stronghold and let them fire, the tengu does the same, then the explosion happens and for a moment it seemed like time stopes for the both of us "who got the can?" The tengu got it, two things went through my head at that point, shoot the can I might lose my ship but the can will be gone. And MWD to it and try to steal it before he gets it. In the end the tengu was faster got the loot and ran.
That was so much fun IMO, I didn't even care that I lost out on loot after a bit, the only thing was "Next time I see you tengu, I will win the race!" Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:27:00 -
[1254] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote: Some of the most adrenaline-filled fun I've had is getting into a GSO only to find another t3 there, and then competing with them for the bacon at the end. The risk of some good pvp here is a lot higher than some might expect, especially if I or the other guy decide to steal from the can at the end.
Agreed. Stuff like this is half the fun of hisec 4/10s.
Your name is familiar to me also. I'm sure we've met in a site or two. |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth R.E.P.O.
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:31:00 -
[1255] - Quote
Scan result window needs some love:
- resizing the columns is missing
- there is not seperator line and space between the columns, makes it hard to read when you don't have the scan window beeing covering a huge part of the screen
- you say it is showing AU and KM now, it doesnt, only AU
- would be nice to be able to change the order of the columns
Thanks, Regards Gal
|
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
285
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:56:00 -
[1256] - Quote
Hipotetical situation. I use an 8 probe formation. 4 in the center, 4 on the outside in a 2D plane and I want to resize/move only one of the two groups independently crom the other by selecting them. Would I be able to? |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 01:28:00 -
[1257] - Quote
At this point, I'm thinking that the utter lack of Dev feedback is fairly indicative that these changes are set in stone... Lovely. Huzzah for a rebirth of the old CCP! |
Sir John Halsey
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 03:46:00 -
[1258] - Quote
I trained for Tengu because a lot of other people were using it. Now, without it, we will see more variation in HS exploration.
Thing is, something else came into my mind... A lot of Tengus were used in HS exploration. Probably most of them :-) After this ban, what will happen with their price? Becoming useless in such big numbers, will it go down?
Also, a lot of those juicy gurista mods were used by those Tengus :-) I'm wondering how this will affect exploration in Caldari space when the demand of those mods which were used by rich Tengu explorers will go down. |
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 04:28:00 -
[1259] - Quote
We can only launch a fixed amount of probes. We launch these probes in fixed formations. Which can be temporarily altered, but still. If we don't have the correct amount of probes required by the launcher we cannot launch any probes AT ALL.
So I must ask this question again:
Why not boil everything down to ONE probe?
Also, the 8th probe in the last patch was a troll, right? It's exactly the same like before with 7, only that the middle probe is slightly set off and the 8th probe stacked on top. |
Space Wanderer
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.21 06:59:00 -
[1260] - Quote
Sir John Halsey wrote:Thing is, something else came into my mind... A lot of Tengus were used in HS exploration. Probably most of them :-)
i doubt it. Ever heard of Interdiction nullifier? There goes the theory that most tengus are used in highsec. Some subsystems might drop in price, though.
Sir John Halsey wrote:Also, a lot of those juicy gurista mods were used by those Tengus :-) I'm wondering how this will affect exploration in Caldari space when the demand of those mods which were used by rich Tengu explorers will go down.
Will it? I tend to think that the modules will still be bought and installed on the next highsec exploration ship of choice...
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