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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
16
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Posted - 2013.05.10 15:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
alot of good points are already made against the removal of deep space probes.
One DSP at 256au provides alot of intel. ships, POS and mods, drones, cosmic sigs with readable percentages. a great deal of intel. currently you have not replaced this intel gathering ability with anything. i would like to know if the removal of DSP is because you (CCP) feel it is something you want removed from the game? or was the removal of this intel gathering technique an oversight because you were very focused on PVE probing only?
Expanding the directional scanner range to 256au would make the removal of Deep Space Probes easier to digest. but still i do hope you reconsider the removal of DSP and there is a change they are left in the game.
i feel that all you really needed to do to buff probing was to allow a user defined launch pattern of up to 8 probes defined in that pattern (and allow the launching of 1 probe by holding shift). that simple change would have been awesome. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
16
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Hey all.
Deep Space Probes??!?
The purpose of Deep Space Probes is to give you a quick scan of the solar system before you start probing things down. The new system overlay already gives you this information without needing probes so Deep Space Probes are no longer needed.
The overlay does not give all the intel that a single DSP at 256au gives you. does the overlay show ships? player owned structures? anything other than cosmic/gravimetric/anomalies? as far as i understand it, and with the testing i have done, the answer is no. please acknowledge that you as a team will rethink this further. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
16
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:Hey all.
Deep Space Probes??!?
The purpose of Deep Space Probes is to give you a quick scan of the solar system before you start probing things down. The new system overlay already gives you this information without needing probes so Deep Space Probes are no longer needed.
The overlay does not give all the intel that a single DSP at 256au gives you. does the overlay show ships? player owned structures? anything other than cosmic/gravimetric/anomalies? as far as i understand it, and with the testing i have done, the answer is no. please acknowledge that you as a team will rethink this further.
or at least acknowledge that it is indeed your fully conscious intent to nerf this intel gathering ability, so that i can move on to considering my monthly subscription instead of posting here. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
17
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Posted - 2013.05.10 18:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chandaris wrote:CCP Tallest wrote: The purpose of Deep Space Probes is to give you a quick scan of the solar system before you start probing things down. The new system overlay already gives you this information without needing probes so Deep Space Probes are no longer needed.
DSP Probes DO have other uses that CCP may not realize.
I want CCP to acknowledge that they DO REALIZE the pvp usage of DSP and are tossing them away anyway. Let me know CCP Tallest.
i hope i am wrong.... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
22
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Posted - 2013.05.11 04:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
all CCP had to do to improve the probing experience was to allow a user to define his own pattern in which the probes are launched. that is it. nothing more. nothing less.
what do we get? this terrible overlay (that i can guarantee 99% of players will never turn on, i mean look at it, it is ridiculous, flipping your camera all around to look for sigs) and the removal of deep space probes.
it makes you wonder if the devs working on this ever played the PVP aspect of this game and hunted other players down using probes. i feel that CCP has lost its focus. i felt that with the walking in stations. i feel it again.
i am waiting for the expected response from CCP declaring that they understand the PVP aspect of Deep Space Probes and feel that it was an exploit or something like that to use them for these PVP purposes(and therefore there removal is justified in their eyes), even though Deep Space Probes only fit in a combat launcher (in other words they were made for ship scanning - but lets ignore that fact).
i can only guess that the DSP removal is a further step toward changing eve from the harsh game it was to something extremely carebear friendly, and this is just another small step in that direction.
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
27
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Listen player-base, we need to focus here to get them to roll this exploration debacle back.
the drumming message: revert everything; all we want are user defined launch patterns.
focus people... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
31
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Posted - 2013.05.11 21:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:Listen player-base, we need to focus here to get them to roll this exploration debacle back.
the drumming message: revert everything; all we want are user defined launch patterns.
focus people... Im sorry you dont like change, there are some things they can tweak to make it better but get used to it because they obviously have taken developer time to put these features in. So like it or not, most WILL be in TQ come June 4. .
BS. crap is crap. and that is what the overlay is. it has to go. and DSP has to stay. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
32
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Posted - 2013.05.12 03:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Rammix wrote:
And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.
Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine.
i have a legacy safe that is 134au from the nearest planet, and yes i just warped to it without a problem. stopped reading right there... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
32
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:Octoven wrote:Rammix wrote:
And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.
Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine. i have a legacy safe that is 134au from the nearest planet, and yes i just warped to it without a problem. stopped reading right there... http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-not-so-great-after-all-deep-safe-nerf-of-2010/
i hate to say it but you speak out of ignorance. have you ever made a deep safe when you were able to? i doubt it. if so have you ever made it in a very very large system like Oipo (for example)? if so you would have been happy to realize that your deep safe is still infact very very deep.
you will note that in these very large systems like Oipo the diameter of the solar system is massive. In the blog you reference you can see from the diagram were a safe is moved to the edge of the system radius. the system radius is defined by the farthest planet + 20au. this can be very very far, well past 10 or 20au you are referencing. for me one of mine remained at 134au distant.
you stand corrected. and all that you have posted is therefore in question so please stop posting in defense of this carebearing change to our probing system.
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
32
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Octoven wrote: Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.
In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.
you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it? |
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
32
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:Octoven wrote: Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.
In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.
you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it? Yes I understood that, so what makes you think someone wont choose to place their probes in that area?? Oipo is what like 154 au diameter, assuming you scan from the center of the system using a wide scan; and also assuming you place your probes in a circular pattern around the system you can effectively cover the whole system in two scans. Once for the interior and once for the exterior. Personally, I scan right up to that 20 au boundary no matter what system im in, and I still dont use a DSP to do it. Yeah, it takes twice as long but doesnt mean its impossible to find you using standard combats.
who said it was impossible? the issue is removal of DSP, for no apparent reason, because even you above admit that there is no 1 to 1 replacement for them.. you have to jack around with combats, up down all around. ridiculous. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
32
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:Octoven wrote: Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.
In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.
you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it? Yes I understood that, so what makes you think someone wont choose to place their probes in that area?? Oipo is what like 154 au diameter, assuming you scan from the center of the system using a wide scan; and also assuming you place your probes in a circular pattern around the system you can effectively cover the whole system in two scans. Once for the interior and once for the exterior. Personally, I scan right up to that 20 au boundary no matter what system im in, and I still dont use a DSP to do it. Yeah, it takes twice as long but doesnt mean its impossible to find you using standard combats. who said it was impossible? the issue is removal of DSP, for no apparent reason, because even you above admit that there is no 1 to 1 replacement for them.. you have to jack around with combats, up down all around. ridiculous. Well yes of course, and as I mentioned in a previous post Im not hating on the keep them in the game; however, if they were to stay I would only support that if CCP were to implement dynamic base signals for sites...ships meh you can leave like they are. Having that little swift guide to pop a probe out go...eh this is a 0.2 signal, dont want and move on....that is not exploration. That is just playing the lottery and getting to see the numbers before they are drawn.
you should ask yourself why does that bother you that cosmic signature percentages can lead to a good guess as to what is at that sig? you can do the very same thing...
is it because you don't like to race to the final faction rat in highsec plex because Mr Tengu always shows up before you are done? so you want to stump the ability of the professional DSP using prober to find your plex?. but you forget that eve is supposed to be harsh and unforgiving. i personally love that race to that last rat. and if i lose so what.
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
32
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:
you should ask yourself why does that bother you that cosmic signature percentages can lead to a good guess as to what is at that sig? you can do the very same thing...
is it because you don't like to race to the final faction rat in highsec plex because Mr Tengu always shows up before you are done? so you want to stump the ability of the professional DSP using prober to find your plex?. but you forget that eve is supposed to be harsh and unforgiving. i personally love that race to that last rat. and if i lose so what.
Actually no lol I dont really do 4/10s or 3/10s and the ones I do, usually I am the guy swooping in and stealing the loot haha. It bothers me that people can use these to quickly dismiss signatures without even needing to bother attempting to scan down to ID the grouping of the site. If they did that then, it starts to feel more like exploring. It's pointless really to pop out a probe and know whats in the system...what is there to explore? That takes all the unknown out of it.
but, from what you have written above, i see that you want to dictate how others play. you personally can explore every single signature down to 100% that you wish to. nothing is stopping you. is DSP stopping you? no. but you want to remove DSP to force others to play as you prefer to play? Eve is a complex game and people should be able to play it as they wish. removing DSP (or even removing readable percentages) is a dumbing down of the game, there is no question about it.
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
47
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Posted - 2013.05.13 14:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
there was a WHOLE WEEKEND of merited discussion about DSP and you (CCP SoniClover) dismiss it all with one paragraph?
i think that to compensate for the removal of DSP, that you should allow Combats to expand to 256au. this would be a fair substitute. (and at the same time refund us our SP invested to use DSP)
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
49
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Posted - 2013.05.14 01:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
aside from a few fanboys like Octoven (who is probably a ccp dev posting undercover) i see that most replies are against these changes.
i reiterate: all CCP needed to do was allow user defined launch patterns. THAT IS IT. are you even reading this thread CCP?
leave your overlay in as a novelty item for new players, but do not force it upon us.
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
56
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Posted - 2013.05.16 15:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:Haseo Antares wrote:
I don't think CCP made any of these changes with PvP in mind. They want to make PvE exploration more "accessible" (I don't agree with this term but I'll go with it) to help retain new frustrated players. Besides cant make things to easy...easy is boring imo.
The new frustrated players are here because CCP has tried to change the demographics of the player base, they are now changing the game to a more friendly but shorter term game, its all shiny and shallowness, its loosing depth. And ONE SUPER PROBE a.k.a. the formations, is EASY, times EASY-¦. Combats as singles and cores as sets, keeps both sides happy as they will get in Ody.
you seem forget that all we asked for was player defined launch patterns. and yes that applies to combats.
otherwise i agree with you. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
56
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Posted - 2013.05.16 19:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!" 2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...
Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration). 7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :) (hint, you have 8 probes)
seriously CCP Paradox, if you force the launch of 8 probes and they all move as one and resize as one, then why have 8 probes at all, just do all your new probing magic with one probe, because that is basically what you are building here, a one probe does all solution. (obviously I don't want this, i am just saying this is basically what you are building)
we continue to plea that you not destroy the current probing system (which no one was complaining about) with this new system. what i want to know is - is it even worth any of our time to even bother anymore? do you take any of the awesome posts in this thread that defend the current system into consideration at all? will you?
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
60
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Posted - 2013.05.17 14:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
did we all forget about the Deep Space Probe removal?
CCP Paradox - please keep DSP in the game, and allow the launch of one.
or expand the range of Combats(and Cores) to 256 to make up for the loss |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
63
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Posted - 2013.05.20 18:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
The CCP product team (those driving the direction of this game) - must not play this game.
concerning T3 - as someone stated before, just rework the loot tables to only allow the magical loot to drop in lowsec and nullsec. thats it, problem solved. you will never see another t3 in any highsec plex again. no need to rework the gates.
. . . . . .
Now back to the main topic from which this thread has been derailed.. actual probing mechanics...
Please CCP, reconsider the removal of Deep Space Probes, the mechanic that replaces them is not there.... AND please rework your current probe launch code to allow 2 or 3 saved user defined launch patterns instead of that 8 probe launch solution you currently have out there... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
63
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Posted - 2013.05.24 14:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:We have reached "the end" of this Feedback thread. While I still read this to hunt out bugs, we will be publishing a Dev Blog shortly with all changes made from Feedback there, and what little things you can expect to be done in time for Odyssey. Some bugs:
- Sorting isn't fully working correctly. We broke this recently and it will be fixed shortly.
- The Scan results are persisting when you jump systems, this isn't meant to be as it causes issues in various ways. Will be fixed shortly.
- Sometimes you are unable to warp to a few 100% signatures "No scan signatures detected" is displayed.
This isn't a definitive list, but those three are ones which you will probably keep seeing for the next few days until the fixes go onto Singularity. A couple of things: The onboard scanner is now dead. The results from the sensor overlay are designed to be populated into the probe scanner on the first time it scans. (Currently changing system persists the old list, which is a bug and not intended. It breaks a few things) The probe launcher will now launch whatever is in the launcher. You can put 4 probes in, and launch only four (still launches all at once). And a few other things that I will leave for our Dev blog. Way to completely fail to address many of the points people have made. You can sure as hell expect to hear from us in the feedback thread in the devblog. We will address them, but right now this thread has served its initial purpose to us. And preparing for another forum thread it's just not feasible to monitor both, or respond to all the points people have made since we last replied.
thanks for the constructive discussion about Deep Space Probes and for addressing all the many other concerns posted here by your customers... /sarcasm
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
66
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Posted - 2013.05.28 14:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:here a small request: if you double click a signature in the scanner window and you have the system map open, could you make it so that the camera centers on that signature?
(the same way it would center itself on the signature if you would double click on it in map mode)
This ^^
also, what happened to the green anomalie indicators on the system map? please put them back... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
87
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Posted - 2013.05.29 17:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Roime wrote:You think moving the formation on top of yourself is going to make difference?
It adds a few seconds to combat probing and doesn't solve the issue of on-grid probing, but adds tedium to normal use.
Auto-recall of probes has been unanimously rejected, will you consider leaving that out of Odyssey? We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.
- Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)
We're still reading up and discussing other points however.
are you saying that if you do not deactivate them then the magical instant recall still happens?
if so can you explain scientifically how the probes appear in your cargo instantly when you jump? given that this is a sci-fi game do you set standards on your developers to keep any new functionality in a 'scientifically feasible' domain? if so i think your QA sprint let one slide here. |
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