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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Lodestar Wolfgang
Alea Iacta Est Universal Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:17:00 -
[1231] - Quote
Please fix the pos mechanics. It really needs some attention |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
38
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:17:00 -
[1232] - Quote
As a CEO and recruiter for a large wormhole-based corporation I have to spend HOURS!!! on each and every recruit for a lone reason of current POS-system lacking ability to secure pilots' and corporation assets!
And now I find myself and other alliance members and all those people who voted for Two Step (like it or not, he is WH candidate) and put him into top-voted-for - now we all are "a small portion of the community." !!! |
Lobo Alfa
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:18:00 -
[1233] - Quote
Upgrade plz |
Beagle von Space
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:18:00 -
[1234] - Quote
People, including CCP, might be conceptualizing how to deal with the problem the wrong way. The two schools of thought seem to be incremental improvements on the current POS system and a completely new system that will replace POSes in one fell swoop. I can see the former being too piecemeal and inherently flawed because the underlying code is inherently flawed. The second may be too much to be tackled all at once.
So how about creating a parallel system, let's call it "Space Houses" (SH), that will exist alongside POSes for a few years and slowly make POSes obsolete as more and more functions are added?
Assign one team, and only one team, to work on SH. Their job is to list all of the things people currently use POSes for (refining, research, manufacture, storage, etc.), and then pretend that POSes do not exist. If CCP were to try to implement these features for players NOW, how would they go about doing it?
Start small. Maybe the first feature is just a simple, scalable research SH. But it's built on an underlying spine that lets you "dock" and manage all of the research modules attached all at once. Hopefully players would start replacing their research POSes with research SHes.
This spine would be open ended so they could add additional functions each expansions. Perhaps next they add the refining component, then the manufacturing one. It might be a few years before they get to the point where players can start storing and managing their ships in a SH, but by then the code would be robust and well tested.
A couple of months ago I stopped playing EVE and am letting my account expire. One of the things that I considered doing in-game was getting into manufacturing/research, but all the guides I read on the topic made the hassle of dealing with POSes sound like far too much work for a game.
(I heard about this issue because I still follow the EVE community on Reddit. There was so much discussion on POSes for so long, that to hear that CCP is considering not addressing them seemed like something worth commenting on.)
"EVE is hard" is different from "EVE is obtuse, cluttered, repetitive, buggy, and tedious."
POSes as they currently exist are a DETERRENT for a lot of people who might want to delve into the world-building side of EVE. It might look like a "small part of the community" because there are a lot of players who choose never to touch this onerous part of the game. |
Nair Alderau
EVE University Ivy League
47
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:19:00 -
[1235] - Quote
Two step wrote:Respectfully (because you are a giant and can crush me), I think you misinterpreted my post.
What I said was: 1) CCP has decided to not do modular POSes all at once 2) CCP has not decided what they will be working on this Summer 3) CCP did say that modular POSes would matter for only a small population of players
What I am trying to do with my blog post and this thread is demonstrate to CCP that #3 is wrong, and that POSes should be a part of the summer expansion (#2).
Reposting this, because it is important.
I'd add that I am doubtful that iterating on POSes as they are now can actually lead to the desirable endgoal of modular, scalable POSes that can allow docking, coexist on one grid and also be somewhere but just moons. |
Fred Lodenstane
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:19:00 -
[1236] - Quote
Fix the damn POSs already. I've never set up one or used one beyond just sitting in the shields I understand the pain that logibros go through so I can have fun playing a terrible game about internet spaceships.
Also its interesting how few people in NPC corps are posting in this thread. I guess everyone outside of such corps are a minority. Even those who do are supporting this. |
Icarus Narcissus
Kraken Industrial Holdings Kraken.
7
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:19:00 -
[1237] - Quote
Two step wrote: Respectfully (because you are a giant and can crush me), I think you misinterpreted my post.
What I said was: 1) CCP has decided to not do modular POSes all at once 2) CCP has not decided what they will be working on this Summer 3) CCP did say that modular POSes would matter for only a small population of players
What I am trying to do with my blog post and this thread is demonstrate to CCP that #3 is wrong, and that POSes should be a part of the summer expansion (#2).
I second Two Step here. In my prior post I simply tried to outline the number of people POSes (and their current mechanics) affect. As someone who has worked with Software Engineers, I do not expect an overnight miracle. The POS system in its current form is cumbersome and intimidating to new POS managers. Even a UI rework and some security to the existing modules this summer would be greatly appreciated. |
Redamok Houssa
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:19:00 -
[1238] - Quote
Strangely I didnt read all 62 pages so I am going to assume that others have said all the things that need fixing. Fix pls. |
thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:19:00 -
[1239] - Quote
Even i who for most of my eve life have been one of those "lurkers" use POS'es and would dearly love to see them made more ...., well more everything really, easier to use, easier to deploy easier to... you get my point
thow
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Mirichan
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:20:00 -
[1240] - Quote
we realy need this upgrade
all t2 and t3 production is comming from posses |
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Intex Encapor
14
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:20:00 -
[1241] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:CCP Gargant wrote:
From page 19:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
You found two little nuggets in the CSM minutes, but this here from the Null Sec portion on page 37 is what really screams out to me "UAxDEATH disagreed and brought up an example of priorities like POSes, GÇ£you promised us those thingsGÇ¥. Greyscale replied that coming into meetings with the mindset of CCP promising a certain feature is a fallacious, and flat-out wrong, mindset. With conversation now completely deteriorating, Unifex took control of the conversation and spoke about POSes. Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that GÇ£is what will kill the businessGÇ¥." So this makes it sound like POSes are not important and not going to get attention.
++
|
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:20:00 -
[1242] - Quote
Toku Jiang wrote:CCP Gargant wrote:
From page 19:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
You found two little nuggets in the CSM minutes, but this here from the Null Sec portion on page 37 is what really screams out to me "UAxDEATH disagreed and brought up an example of priorities like POSes, GÇ£you promised us those thingsGÇ¥. Greyscale replied that coming into meetings with the mindset of CCP promising a certain feature is a fallacious, and flat-out wrong, mindset. With conversation now completely deteriorating, Unifex took control of the conversation and spoke about POSes. Unifex stated that what CCP did was spend effort and prototype what would make a good POS system. It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes. Focusing that amount of time and effort on some small singular aspect of the game and delivering only that GÇ£is what will kill the businessGÇ¥." So this makes it sound like POSes are not important and not going to get attention. In the interest of being fair and balanced I would like to point out to my fellow players that nothing from a game developer should be taken as a promise until there has been a firm commitment to doing so. While there was a lot of talk from CCP about the revamp that obviously gave us all a lot of false hope, that talk was anything but firm.
To reiterate what I see is the problem here is not that they aren't doing them yet and (evidently) that they aren't working on them at all, but that they seem to see it as a problem that only affects "a small part" of the playerbase and so perhaps do not regard it as a higher priority item.
That is clearly very, very wrong. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Demyen
Lonetrek Logistics Corp.
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:20:00 -
[1243] - Quote
I'm one of the many solo players talked about in the Summit minutes. I'm working right now on setting up my first little POS in highsec. Partly for gits and shiggles, partly for getting more into the manufacturing side of things, and partly to have a little space to call my own.
I was *really* looking forward to the POS redesign that's been bandied about for the last year or so. |
AFLACK
Dominion Enterprise Malefic Aspects
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:20:00 -
[1244] - Quote
Please!!!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF EVE PLEASE UPDATE THE POS SYSTEM!!! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1196
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:22:00 -
[1245] - Quote
I think that a POS rework would be to the benefit of most EVE players, not just a select few. /signed |
Xel Set
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
9
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:22:00 -
[1246] - Quote
The next "big" thing in Eve I'm waiting for is a revamp to POSes, and it's long overdue. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
315
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:22:00 -
[1247] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:
From page 19:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
"Seagull: The reason there's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."
Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.
Man of courage! First dev to dare to face the crowd!!
As you have notice people really want this. and despite the fact that you can't make promises, they was already made along the years. We Just want to Know that there is someone working in it. Give us the name of the dev! And say to us that he will deliver to us more then we expect!
and remember to dont call us minority again. (That was a trap to a hotdrop) Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Kawa Ascot
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:22:00 -
[1248] - Quote
Upgrade |
Adam Aksyfar
Diversified Astronautic Solutions Group
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 17:22:00 -
[1249] - Quote
I POS. |
T Nips
Off-Grid Tax Havens
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:23:00 -
[1250] - Quote
FIX THEM |
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Dianabolic Statham
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:23:00 -
[1251] - Quote
we do live in a wh we do need pos upgrades |
Nair Alderau
EVE University Ivy League
47
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:23:00 -
[1252] - Quote
mynnna wrote:To reiterate what I see is the problem here is not that they aren't doing them yet and (evidently) that they aren't working on them at all, but that they seem to see it as a problem that only affects "a small part" of the playerbase and so perhaps do not regard it as a higher priority item.
That is clearly very, very wrong.
Very, very wrong indeed. |
Bagehi
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
137
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:24:00 -
[1253] - Quote
I've said it before, I'll say it again. If towers aren't revamped soon, there will be pitchforks and torches. This truly cannot come too soon. At this point, almost anything is an improvement to the current archaic system. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1030
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:24:00 -
[1254] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote: CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
It's been on the table and asked about for over 6 years now. CCP has stated alot of things over those years and has yet to deliver, only ignore. I doubt many are expecting an overnight miracle(especially when dealing with CCP) however continuing to delay doesn't strike much confidence within your customers. Hence the rage.
|
Thomas Hurt
Poteque Industries
83
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:25:00 -
[1255] - Quote
bump |
Thillery
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:25:00 -
[1256] - Quote
While I understand that revamping POSes entirely would require quite a lot of work, would it be possible to just fix SMAs so that they function similarly to CHAs in that you can secure sections of them? This would greatly help the players in W-space, as we currently have no good way of preventing corp theft, and are forced to use rather blunt measures to keep new players from being able to steal our stuff. This one fix would be greatly appreciated. |
Meynn
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:26:00 -
[1257] - Quote
A real POS redesign can not stop at the structures. For this project to make any sense CCP will also need to look into the corporate hangar system, corporate roles and titles as well as the corporate management system as a whole. |
Casperus Infernus
Natural lifetime W-Space
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:26:00 -
[1258] - Quote
W-Space for POS-changes!!! |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
37
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:26:00 -
[1259] - Quote
I would like to join this threadnought because I am really looking forward to POS being re-done. I think it should be one of current CCP's priorities, beside ring mining. |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
151
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:27:00 -
[1260] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:
From page 19:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
"Seagull: The reason there's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."
Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.
Sup Gargant (I've always meant to ask: did your name come from Final Fantasy IX?)
We understand and are on board with the quotes you cited. I myself have been championing "don't roll them out until you're ready" re: POSes for a while now. The reason this went from zero to rage is the statement that POSes affect a small group of players and how that influences their prioritizing. (see also: "The atmosphere was notably tense" and all that.) It didn't come off well in light of all of that praise of the tiny group of enablers and instigators. It made that praise ring hollow. Cue threadnaught. |
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