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Everay
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:14:00 -
[1]
this is only to be a debate, not a flame, but im curious as to the reasons why people see a large group of ships attacking something or someone, as lame. to me it is simply one thing, the stronger group the "blob" has alot of people who want to fight, and can field them. to me a corp that can do that isnt lame, but rather sucessful. when someone blows up one of your corps haulers in 0.0, and your corp fields 50 BS and makes them pay money for the loss after they would not, such a event can only be seen in my opinion as a victory and impressive, so my question to you all is, why do you see that as lame? totaly a debate, just wanting to know everyones opinions so that i can better understand some people.
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n1ghtmar3
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:17:00 -
[2]
You don't need to be big to be successful.
If one battleship takes down a hauler in 0.0 and the hauler's corp bring in thirty battleships (with twenty Scorp's, right DCC?) to kill just this one battleship... I'm afraid that is lame.
If you're that insecure and not confident with your skills/setup/ship, then you shouldn't be PvPing in the first place.
2005.01.14 00:37:16combatYour Inferno Torpedo I hits Concord Billboard, doing 411.3 damage. |
Xoria Krint
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:18:00 -
[3]
Originally by: n1ghtmar3 You don't need to be big to be successful.
If one battleship takes down a hauler in 0.0 and the hauler's corp bring in thirty battleships (with twenty Scorp's, right DCC?) to kill just this one battleship... I'm afraid that is lame.
If you're that insecure and not confident with your skills/setup/ship, then you shouldn't be PvPing in the first place.
lol smegheads talking about lame?
Space Invader | Shadow Of The Ghost | Xoria Krint
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:28:00 -
[4]
In all times history have been written by the Victor.
Thats why the great Allied forces liberated Berlin, Thats why the great bomb was dropped in japan.
If both of those had been in a vidoe game, it would have been the Ganking of Berlin and the exploit of japan.
Equal terms in a computer game is when two people have played the game for just as long they have had the same ability to gain the same set of skills and equipment.
Ganking take place when 2 year old beats on 1 month old players, and that is why measures is taken to prevent that from happening.
But the 2 year old players feel uncomfertable fighting other 2 year old players, so they do what is in their power to avoid the setting and rules so they can go and feel superior beating up newborn characters. thats ganking for you it dont have to do with numbers just age.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sweetpain thats ganking for you it dont have to do with numbers just age.
Wrong. Ganking is to do with ships and numbers. _______________________________________________________
Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram. |
Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.03 02:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Necrologic
Originally by: Sweetpain thats ganking for you it dont have to do with numbers just age.
Wrong. Ganking is to do with ships and numbers.
And ships and number comes in ...........?
Ever heard of the three Newbie ships ganking the battleship? guess not.....!
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Maxine Stirner
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Posted - 2005.06.03 05:29:00 -
[7]
Smaller fleets have taken down bigger ones in the past, even with fairly simplistic tactics.
The real trouble with blobs is that they lack purpose. They take forever for the commanders to move against one another. If there were real emergency objectives to meet, destroy or defend, then blob conflicts would resolve more swiftly.
Imagine a POS, let's say it is a POS that actually provides more support than it absorbs and more importantly supplies the needs of many users on an opposing side. Let's say it is largely invulnerable 21 out of 23 hours a day. During those 2 hours, that deployed whatever-it-is is extremely vulnerable. Spies or special equipment can (eventually) determine when the the owner has set that time period to be.
The defenders know when their (ideally extremely valuable, and critically necessary) depot is likely to come under attack, and the enemy knows their window of successful assault.
Thus the blob conflict resolves fairly quickly, and on a time table even.
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2005.06.03 06:49:00 -
[8]
Edited by: KIAInkZ on 03/06/2005 06:51:07 Edited by: KIAInkZ on 03/06/2005 06:49:53 There's nothing lame about it. The only people that think it's lame are the ones who expect to do what they like with no concequence, and spend all their time crying from a safe spot.
If a group blobs, especially if they're of a lower pvp ability, that's just smart. If you're in this situation you adapt for it. It's nothing remarkably complicated.
The only lamness is usually the idiot smacktalking from his safespot crying because a group actually has the balls to take some form of action. ---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.03 07:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: KIAInkZ Edited by: KIAInkZ on 03/06/2005 06:51:07 Edited by: KIAInkZ on 03/06/2005 06:49:53 There's nothing lame about it. The only people that think it's lame are the ones who expect to do what they like with no concequence, and spend all their time crying from a safe spot.
If a group blobs, especially if they're of a lower pvp ability, that's just smart. If you're in this situation you adapt for it. It's nothing remarkably complicated.
The only lamness is usually the idiot smacktalking from his safespot crying because a group actually has the balls to take some form of action.
Agreed.
Though imoh its normally the blob that does the smacktalking. (from a solo pirates perspective)
"Come to the gate and fight us you **** *** ***** coward" etc
Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.06.03 08:20:00 -
[10]
Doen't the quote not say "Peace through superior firepower"?
ex P-TMC
If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Embattle
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Posted - 2005.06.03 08:41:00 -
[11]
Grand Fleet vs High Sea Fleet.....a 2-1 superiority and generally its always been superiority through numbers.
What do people want, the two leaders of the sides to meet up and decided how many ships to bring....don't be silly. Your Miner II perfectly blows up in its mount, wrecking for 900000000 damage. |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.06.03 08:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: KIAInkZ If a group blobs, especially if they're of a lower pvp ability, that's just smart.
If you're in this situation you adapt for it. It's nothing remarkably complicated.
The Kia is right.
I'm not afraid of blobs. Blobs are slow, stupid, oftenly alot less organised then smaller groups and most oftenly made up of parttimers without complimentary setups to eachother.
Disecting a blob is one of the challenges left in pvp worth taking on. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
pHASE 11
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Posted - 2005.06.03 08:53:00 -
[13]
Blobbing gets lame when the blobs are large enough to _guarantee_ horrible lag, especially for the one jumping in. Hence making nobody wanting to jump and both fleets ends up sitting on different ends of the gate. You're then using game limitations instead game mechanics, player skill or player experience to not lose any ships. No side gets an opportunity to fight and the players end up with less fun.
Like already said the more pvp-inclined and the fleet command who refuse to let their members sit on their hands doing nothing will find something else to do or different tactic but that's another thing.
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2005.06.03 09:22:00 -
[14]
Please keep it friendly.
As for blobs being lame or not, I think it largely depends which side of the blob you are on to determine that.
Then again if Eris brings along her pink "pwn-all" Titan, I won't have to worry about anything.
{The Forum Rules} | {Email Us!} |
kessah
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:40:00 -
[15]
hmmmm id say its to your advantage them bringing in 30 battleships.
Rememeber the story about the Norweigen\british Heros of Telemark?
Becus theres so many of them and your so few, you wait for them to make a move then pick them off. Make them chase you and set a trap. It really isnt always about numbers. Larger groups are slow and mostly inept agaisnt smaller groups,
Becus they wont go anywhere without support. Trust me this isnt lame its a godsend there guna camp you out, simply organise a surprise for them
-------------------------------------------------------- "I wana get down on my knee's and start pleasin' Jesus, i wana feel his salvation all over my face." - Eric Cartman, South Park |
Karistis
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:08:00 -
[16]
Blobbing is only lame if it is used to dishonor a duel IMO.
EXAMPLE:
Player1: Hey wanna 1v1? Player2: Sure meet at Planet 5? Player1: OK
(battle...Player2 brings in a group of jamming Scorps to counter Player1's tiny frigate and Player1 is destroyed)
Player1: WTF!!! Player2: LOL....U just got BBQ'd LOL hahahAHHAHAHahAHHAhAH
If that's what blobbing is used for, then it's lame IMO. The funny thing about blobbing, is that everyone seems to think that the guy who's hiding from them is a coward. From personal experience, it's been the blobs that have done the smacktalking, as someone said earlier (sorry I can't remember who it was ). But anyway, it depends on the circumstances.
To sum it up:
-blobbing to dishonor duels = LAME -blobbing and smacktalking even when you wouldn't have the balls to fight the other guy 1v1 = LAME -seeing a new player come into your alliance's home solar system and then telling him you will help him mine, and then bringing in a group of 50BS and a bunch of tacklers just for his rookie ship = LAME and LOW SKILL
Please don't flame kthnx. _________________________________________ 2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice. |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:31:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 03/06/2005 14:40:05 Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 03/06/2005 14:32:07 The only problem with blobbing is, when a lone frigate ganks an opsery and a kesteral and said alliance brings in 22 guys and starts smack talking in local because your hiding. Then said blob is lame.
PS No I will not 1vs1 your cracal in my Tar <_<
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Jamius
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Posted - 2005.06.03 15:46:00 -
[18]
When I started Eve (and I think this may be true of mm online games in general as people can act however they want with no real consequence) I was naive in that I imagined getting into big battles, fair in numbers be it 1v1 or 30v30 and it would be good competitive fun like I get in the FPS games or strategy games I play.
How wrong was I. I personally do not enjoy in the slightest winning easily or losing badly. I want a good fight - that is real invigorating fun.
I do not understand the logic behind "lets sit on a gate in massive numbers and kill all that come and go". Can someone who plays the game this way tell me that is actually fun and if so, how!?!
I can only see it as fun from an organisational point of view. It would indeed seem satisfying organising such a large fighting party and would feel good flying along in it. But go and search out another big fighting party and get in a swedge for goodness sake.
Maybe 1 day I will understand it. As it is mining seems better fun and more satisfying than the shooting of fish in a barrel large gate ganks seem to be. And mining doesn't p!ss people off (maybe that's what gives gankers the buzz).
btw - does anyone ever get a similar sized group together and go out and face these gate ganks. Now that would be my idea of fun.
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.06.03 16:32:00 -
[19]
No one remember one of the 30 that ganked then one in a isolated space no one usually travels to.
but all the 30 will remember the one that killed a few of them and escaped from their trap.
its funny though, people seek in to big groups with a dessire to stand out, but they will allways only be remembered as one of the gank squad.
heroes is not made in groups, heroes is made by those that defy the groups or masses.
one of many will allways remain just that "one of many" the one that stood alone against many will for ever be remembered as the one that fought against many, no matter the outcome.
if you want recognition or to be remembered in the game by others, then do something everyone else is not doing, if not you will allways just be one of the "blob" someone easily replaced and fast forgotten.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 03/06/2005 20:18:46 There is nothing wrong with fielding a big fleet of fighters.
There is something wrong when a fleet of 20 battleships encounters a fleet of 15 battleships and instead of fighting, the fleet of 20 hides until the other 40 bs's show up...which has happened to us on a number of occasions. 3 to 1 ratio FTW
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.06.03 20:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Fred0 on 03/06/2005 20:18:37
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci The only problem with blobbing is, when a lone frigate ganks an opsery and a kesteral and said alliance brings in 22 guys and starts smack talking in local because your hiding. Then said blob is lame.
PS No I will not 1vs1 your cracal in my Tar <_<
Ok. So no offence but is it the blobbing then or the smack that is lame and how does that correspond to this topic? Or maybe this is some postmodern mumbojumbo where it is impossible to dissect what is the blob and what is smack, can you enlighten me?
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Uggs386
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Posted - 2005.06.04 00:39:00 -
[22]
I wont say blobbing is lame as it is an alliances best defense, but it doesnt mean I have to like it. I much prefer it when the enemy wants to fight and show that they want to fight by bringing in similar numbers and ship types. Then everyone has fun. And yes msot of the time the smack talking is doen by the blob and not the lone piklot or small group of pilots, I've experienced this many times as I hunt solo a lot and in small groups, Ive just learned ot tune it out as its pointless.
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Rasta Rocketman
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Posted - 2005.06.04 00:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Everay this is only to be a debate, not a flame, but im curious as to the reasons why people see a large group of ships attacking something or someone, as lame. to me it is simply one thing, the stronger group the "blob" has alot of people who want to fight, and can field them. to me a corp that can do that isnt lame, but rather sucessful. when someone blows up one of your corps haulers in 0.0, and your corp fields 50 BS and makes them pay money for the loss after they would not, such a event can only be seen in my opinion as a victory and impressive, so my question to you all is, why do you see that as lame? totaly a debate, just wanting to know everyones opinions so that i can better understand some people.
I have plenty of experience fighting against blobs while in smaller numbers. I guess the way you put it, it isn't necessarily lame.
What I've seen of blobbers so far ingame is that they can't or won't fight and even-odds battle. I can only guess that they either don't have confidence in their abilities as a pilot or they want is risk-free PvP (ie..30 v 10). In my opinion, that is pretty weak because blobbing someone requires no skill.
I agree that if you have superior numbers immediately available then you can't really exclude someone that wants to fight BUT, if you have 10 ships ready to jump into a system where your enemy has 10 ships....why would u wait an extra 20 minutes to get an additional 20 ships?
That to me simply indicates a lack of confidence in PvP ability.
_______________________________________________
"I spilled spot remover on my dog....now he's gone." -Steven Wright |
Karanis
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Posted - 2005.06.14 21:53:00 -
[24]
blobbing to me is optimal it just means more targets to shoot at if your corp is any good at pvp they should be able to win even if out numbered. 9 out 10 fights when u are a pirate the odds are stacked against u carebear miners wont fightt u unless they out number u 5 to 1 so its no different then fighting a blob of 20 ships vs 10 or what have u the only thing it affects is the quality of gameplay as well as more lag. one bad fault about ppl to blob is time wasted i can have my corp 10 jumps away from the bl;ob by the time they are ready to engage so please continue to blob u are only wasting your time not mine
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Karanis
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Posted - 2005.06.14 21:55:00 -
[25]
oh one more thing blob battles require no skill when fighting and u just become a number so if u enjoy being a pawn with no talent have fun :D
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.06.14 22:14:00 -
[26]
We almost always fight outnumbered :)
I think in the last couple of months, 8 out of 10 of our real fleetbattles were fought outnumbered. When we are the outnumbering party, most opponents flee or wait for reinforcements. Nothing wrong with either, but it would just be more fun if we would actually face something that we can fight ;)
I don't think I can say that I consider anything related to fleet size lame... outnumbering is a tactic, but a very ineffective one. You will make your opponent leave or hide, but on a temporary basis. In other words, you go through all the hassle of fielding a fleet that is roughly twice or thrice the size (often between 25 and 50 ships), you have to sort out all the travelling, all the logistics, and still you will have a hard time fighting them for the simple fact that they will be more alert and hide.
Again, it all works, but your opponent is back the day after. If you take him out, he may be back the day after, but at least you left a note in his pocket saying "I took a lot of isk out of your wallet".
This doesn't only apply to fleet battles, it also applies when on your own. People try to go after my Harpy in a battleship. I think I once had half a fleet on me while I was just looking for some 1v1 fun, but I got a couple of interceptors, a battlecruiser and 4 battleships on me. I'm fine with that, but you won't see me any closer than 150km. Then they just complain that I'm such a candyass hiding pirate, it makes me cry sometimes. :[
Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet. |
Kage Getsu
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Posted - 2005.06.14 22:47:00 -
[27]
I'll never fault anyone for bringing their entire fighting force to a battle, even if it's bigger than the enemy's. I'll also never blame anyone for not fighting a bigger force.
However, whenever I do those things, I'm a coward either way, according to the enemy. I guess the only way to not be a coward is to eject out of my ship and warp to them?
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.06.15 11:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kage Getsu I'll never fault anyone for bringing their entire fighting force to a battle, even if it's bigger than the enemy's. I'll also never blame anyone for not fighting a bigger force.
However, whenever I do those things, I'm a coward either way, according to the enemy. I guess the only way to not be a coward is to eject out of my ship and warp to them?
Yes, that is the way according to most of my enemies. But then again, you're being stupid... I wonder what it will take to satisfy everybody. :)
Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet. |
Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.06.15 11:33:00 -
[29]
I don't really have a problem with blobs, what I have a problem with is when someone brings 20 BS to counter your 3, you warp away and they start saying 'OMFG YUO AER SO LAME Y DONT U FIGHT LOL U SUCK LOL'. Almost as funny as the time I and 9 other BS shot at a POS for an hour or two for fun and then one of the owners called us crap 'cos we hadn't killed it yet _________________
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H Zub
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Posted - 2005.06.15 13:06:00 -
[30]
I'm used to crap like HAHAHA you run. Thats when I just gain some range in my burning ceptor to recharge some of my shield vs 1 to you name it AFs and what not. Then I engage again and they still smack at me. In my world anyone in a better ship or outnumbering advantage, should appreciate and show respect when the enemy engage them to actually offer them a fight in a game where 90% of all people run even in a fair situation.
I dont know if it's just me, but it seems harder and harder to pick a fight other than against huge blobs. Anyway I will never be on the blob side, I love fighting solo and in small tight groups.
Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie |
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