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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.01 22:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
You want HIGH FPS, and LOW client-side lag, FAST loads and computers that run like a scalded cat. (I know you do because I do too! )
Since you won't have a resource-hungry vid-capture tool running anymore, YOU CAN!
Similar to Half-Life 2's built-in demo-record feature (which records to a small file), Eve-Online should have it's very own...
BATTLE-RECORDER It keeps the file size small by recording only position data over time, not video & audio. When you replay the file later on, it re-renders the whole scene, allowing you to record it then, without any the lag, without any the slow-down, without any choke, so you can concentrate on your video after, not during, a fight.
In playback, you can set the camera position over a time-line so that replayed your über camerawork will be shown, allowing you to share some superb vids.
The idea is this tool comes in two 'flavours', the Battle-Recorder, and it's partner, the Battle-Player.
BATTLE-RECORDER
- Records positional, directional information etc. in realtime to a file for later edit and playback, not raw video & audio like current vid capture.
- Allows you to edit the saved battle information and add camera tracks, pans and zooms for dynamic and stylish angles over a timeline in realtime.
- Uses ONLY A FRACTION of the resources typical vid-capture tools require, allowing CLIENT LAG-FREE PVP, fleet or otherwise, as well as detailed recording, at RIDICULOUS RESOLUTIONS!
- With such power over the timeframe, it allows you FINE-TUNED CONTROL on where the camera is, doing what, at any time.
- Snapshots, allowing those perfect moments to be captured!
- The perfect tool for anyone who doesn't want to capture at 1920 x 1200 , because that's nuts. Well, NOW YOU CAN easily record in 1920 x 1200 , edit it IN REALTIME, then capture your work of art with your favourite vid-capture tool, convert it and post it up to EVE-files for all to see!
BATTLE-PLAYER
- Plays-back the previously (edited) battle, full-screen/windowed, ready to record with your favourite vid-capture tool!
- It might even be possible to implement an AVI or frames export, eliminating the need for a seperate capture tool, so you can get right into editing the video with your fav program.
- FREE ADVERTISING from epic community videos?
- A tool allowing users to analyze fights in great detail to fight smarter, or as an intel tool, to highlight strong/weak-points in both yours and your enemies fleets! This can be done in your own client or in the conference room to your whole corp in Incarna.
- STREAM the Alliance Tournament DIRECTLY to your client? So you could WATCH IT HAPPEN LIVE at home and be your own cameraman and listen to the commentary via EVE voice!
- Ghost-out other ships, like passers-by, so people know at-a-glance they're not involved in the fight and pay them no heed.
- The greatest benefit will be to the new players. You no longer have to explain something in detail, you can just link them a tiny file to download and watch in the Battle-Player!
So whaddya think? |
Tagera
Unity Systems Engineering The Dog Pound
2
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Posted - 2011.10.04 22:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like the idea.....but definitely something that CCP would have to hammer out later. |
Aidan Patrick
Aldebaran Foundation Tauri Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.05 01:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Supported. Would be awesome. Only reason I have never recorded EVE videos is simple because of the fact that I'm not willing to risk loss due to performance lag on my system. So yeah, big +1 from me. [ Loot Log: Small Functionality Update Request ] [ A New (Non-Combat) Exploration Idea ] |
Lorcaine
Corporation Danmark Tactical Narcotics Team
1
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Posted - 2011.10.06 16:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
You got my vote too. Every pvp oriented game need to have such a feature. First person, 3rd person... |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.10.08 01:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks guys! If you've seen the vids people have created without tools, I can't imagine the awesome vids they'd be able to make with this tool! Support Eve's own Battle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=126987 |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
22
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Posted - 2011.10.08 01:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
It would be neat if it pulled the server logs and rebuilt the events based on them, that way you could potentially get some awsome videos that are lag free of the larger fights. |
Kellyl
Integrity.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.08 09:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
For no lag recording, pc with2 vid outputs, vid setting to clone displays, monitor in one vidport, pvr in other.
Lag free recording at 1900x1200.
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ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.11 02:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Not everyone's got a PVR and a dual out graphics card Kellyl.
This way it's not only easier, it's more accessible. Support Eve's own Battle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=126987 |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.11 02:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tagera wrote:I like the idea.....but definitely something that CCP would have to hammer out later.
From: http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2010/CSM_CCP_Meetings_18-20_02_2010.pdf, page 14, paragraph 2.
Quote:The CSM inquired about the possibility of a battle recorder, a tool that stores the data stream from the server which would enable re-rendering of events and therefore help with videos. CCP explained that this is technically possible and actually exists as an in-house tool. However, quite a bit of development time is needed in order to release it to players. ItGÇÿs therefore a question of prioritization.
Support Eve's own Battle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=126987 |
Sir Substance
Tactical Knightmare
50
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Posted - 2011.10.11 04:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Man, I'd love something like this. So many possible uses! |
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Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 07:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
There was a nice thread on the old forums about this collecting lots of good ideas. Yes, we need a battle recorder for post-editing and probably a special render engine replacing details and effects for a never seen before look like what we know from several games cinematics. CCP is still using something like this. |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:Man, I'd love something like this. So many possible uses! I think the endless possibilities are what scare CCP
Presidente Gallente wrote:There was a nice thread on the old forums about this collecting lots of good ideas. You mean this one? I'm pretty familiar with it
Presidente Gallente wrote:Yes, we need a battle recorder for post-editing and probably a special render engine replacing details and effects for a never seen before look like what we know from several games cinematics. CCP is still using something like this. Yes, yes and god damn it will they ever share it! Support Eve's own-áBattle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/?g=posts&m=126987#post126987 |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.11.28 16:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bumpage for exposure. Because, like, this idea is so awesome!!! Needs more spam so the devs don't have a choice but to include it. But they're only going to do this if you ASK for it!! Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/?g=posts&m=126987#post126987 |
Schnoo
The Schnoo
14
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Posted - 2011.11.28 17:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
do you have any idea how hard it would be implement it? even a simple version that wouldn't work between EVE versions would be rather challenging |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
247
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
To take this idea one step further, and actually make Incarna useful for something, I would like to propose the following to add to your Battle Recorder:
- Be able to playback recordings on the CQ display screens - Create one more room (a Corp/Alliance War Room) and allow for playback on the display in there
This allows you and your corp/alliance to look at an event, and establish what went right/wrong with it, and learn from it. And if multiple people have recordings, play them on up to three display screens (as that is what the CQ offers), so you can see the event from a couple of different angles. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Tarn Kugisa
Modern Mining Industries Cosmic Maniacs
9
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Posted - 2011.11.28 23:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
This looks awesome, mainly because it is exactly what Valve's demo record feature does, which is saving position and object data and re-rendering it later, making for lag-less video and low amounts of resource usage when recording. Heyoo! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25996134/TASTY.png |
Velicitia
Open Designs
130
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Posted - 2011.11.28 23:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
ninjaholic wrote:Not everyone's got a PVR and a dual out graphics card Kellyl.
This way it's not only easier, it's more accessible.
anyone with a moderately modern card (i.e. can play eve) should have a dual-outputs...
the PVR, yeah, that may not be quite so common.
+1 to the OP's idea though ... didn't see if this was mentioned, but it NEEDS to be able to output in a format that we can put on the CQ TV |
Saracha
7
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Posted - 2011.11.29 03:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
+support
This seems like and awesome idea, I would absolutly love to get it implemented. |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2011.11.29 06:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Not a bad idea.
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ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Schnoo wrote:do you have any idea how hard it would be implement it? even a simple version that wouldn't work between EVE versions would be rather challenging [sic] It wouldn't be hard at all. Every entity on the 'grid' has x y z positional data, directional data, movement data and target data among other numbers. Most of this can be shortened from what it is now, and then 'interpolated', (aka guestimated) to keep the information small and manageable. This information can work across versions as it's already in place in a lot of games. All Source based games, Unreal based games, Havok based engines in general.
Jack Carrigan wrote:To take this idea one step further, and actually make Incarna useful for something, I would like to propose the following to add to your Battle Recorder:
- Be able to playback recordings on the CQ display screens - Create one more room (a Corp/Alliance War Room) and allow for playback on the display in there
This allows you and your corp/alliance to look at an event, and establish what went right/wrong with it, and learn from it. And if multiple people have recordings, play them on up to three display screens (as that is what the CQ offers), so you can see the event from a couple of different angles. [sic] I could've sworn I put this in there somewhere already! I think I might have had to take it out to fit that post into one But HELL YEA this should be the case. Even to be honest, the Battle-player should be part of CQ with full-screen options!
Tarn Kugisa wrote:This looks awesome, mainly because it is exactly what Valve's demo record feature does, which is saving position and object data and re-rendering it later, making for lag-less video and low amounts of resource usage when recording. Agreed, this is exactly the case. No bloody lag. No issues recording to same hard drive. It's accessible to everyone, and easily too. Even complete noobs, newbies, vets alike.
Velicitia wrote:anyone with a moderately modern card (i.e. can play eve) should have a dual-outputs... the PVR, yeah, that may not be quite so common. +1 to the OP's idea though ... didn't see if this was mentioned, but it NEEDS to be able to output in a format that we can put on the CQ TV I do. But not everyone does. This kind of feature is currently only open to some, who have a capable machine and the software to do it. This way, ANYONE with a copy of Eve that runs, can record. That simple
Saracha wrote:+support
This seems like and awesome idea, I would absolutly love to get it implemented. Makes about 400 of us so far, you and I included! Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/?g=posts&m=126987#post126987 |
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Sieges
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
10/10
+1 |
Schnoo
The Schnoo
16
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Posted - 2011.12.01 07:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
ninjaholic wrote:Schnoo wrote:do you have any idea how hard it would be implement it? even a simple version that wouldn't work between EVE versions would be rather challenging It wouldn't be hard at all. Every entity on the 'grid' has x y z positional data, directional data, movement data and target data among other numbers. Most of this can be shortened from what it is now, and then 'interpolated', (aka guestimated) to keep the information small and manageable. This information can work across versions as it's already in place in a lot of games. All Source based games, Unreal based games, Havok based engines in general. It is not as easy as you think (disclaimer: I've worked a bit on parsing Starcraft's replays when I was doing some machine learning). You would have to create a way to both save the data and then replay it.
The saving part: You would need to convert things into serializable events, and those events would need to be fully deterministic, so they can be replayed accurately. This would mean you can't just put "X has started attacking Y" nor "X has started jamming Y" and then generate damage as you would in EVE, as these are stochastic events, meaning you should add "X has done Z damage to Y at time T". And let's not forget that the wide range of events that exist in EVE is far greater than any FPS. Even if you would limit it to combat-related stuff only it would be large. Replays would also need to store ship fittings being an arguable problem of leaking additional previously unknown information (victor's fittings).
The loading part: You would need to add a lot of engine code to be able to load data into the engine and not have it do things on it own (not actually work, just replay and display)
Cross version problem: Most games usually tend to optimize data usage. I bet that EVE ship types are kept binary in files, and are often referred by indexes when client and server communicate, or even when client does rendering and so on. The same goes for modules, gates, and probably any other object, visible or otherwise. This creates a problem when you try to load replays from older versions, f.e if you were to load the Apocrypha version replay, which not only did not have Tier 3 BC, but ships there were different. Some ships gained/lost slots so a replay that has a Imperial Navy Slicer with 3 turrets makes no sense as far as Crucible is concerned.
Also, here's an idea, how about you guys implementing it, even if a simple version? LOL did it, http://www.leaguereplays.com/download/, even though it isn't cross-version and has certain deficiencies (can't really pause), it worked pretty well. Then again, I'm not sure how much data can be gathered if you would to try the same thing in EVE (probably a dll injection or less likely port listening).
PS: I'm not against the idea, it would be great to be implemented, but from a programming perspective it will probably take as much time as all the things that have been done (programmed) for this expansion together. In fact, if some such thing would be to implemented, I would love to do some data mining on it, but it would take time. PPS: Don't add stuff I haven't wrote in my posts when quoting me. |
Noillia Durmot
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.12.01 12:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1
Surely the data needed to recreate any series of events in eve is the exact data that is received from the server. Save that data and feed it to a client-lite and it will reproduce the exact same series of events.
If I understand it correctly all randoms are calculated on the server and it is not possible to move your ship or activate a module without the server telling your client that it has happened.
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ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2011.12.04 18:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
@Schnoo I STILL don't see how it's NOT possible. If the data exists, there must be a way to load it, manipulate the data that relates to the client camera's position over time, and then save it as a stream of instructions, then replay it. Also regarding sic see here.
@Noillia Durmot As far as I know you're right, the server has to 'approve' any client behaviour. I remember reading something like that on the forums a while ago but I can't say for sure.
Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder! |
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CCP Atlas
C C P C C P Alliance
64
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Posted - 2011.12.04 18:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
This is something that has been discussed internally numerous times and it is pretty awesome. I do believe it's even on some backlog or other, but I don't know when or if it will be attacked. |
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
311
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yay! A Dev made input.
If it's been discussed, that's good.
If you can come up with a way, I'd love to see it. If not, keep up the good work on FiS.
Now if only I could get Dev input on my suggestions... -shameless plug- "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Cendres Ange
STEMA Traders Inc
5
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Would be a great feature! Fingers crossed. |
Jonas Xiamon
26
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Posted - 2011.12.04 20:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
I would love this feature, so hard... Questions, comments, complaints? Please feel free to reply, I'll be serving coffee and ice cream soon. |
Major Kim
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
1
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Posted - 2011.12.05 00:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
+1 I enjoy watching eve fights, a battlerecorder/player would benifit alot of people i think. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1892
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Posted - 2011.12.05 02:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
I might not have read it properly, but I think you missed one of the most critical parts of the Source versionGǪ
The ability to not actually play back, but to render to a series of full-res/full-effect screenshots.
So you record the event as normal, with whatever settings you have to make it playable for you, and then you set up the actual render job to run at max everything. You don't have to worry about FPS or about your capturing software interfering or dropping frames GÇö you are getting the exact right FPS you want for your recording at exactly the resolution you want with no drop in quality. (Figuring out how to record and play back the camera movement is a simple matter of programming.)
Then you just point your movie tool to the stack of files and tell it to compile it into a move and go to bedGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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