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Oslarica
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:48:00 -
[1]
I'm a PI builder in high sec. I have one char with lv5 planetology, lv4 advanced planetology. I found the new PI formula cause me lose about 33% extracting rate per 5 hour in an elite PI, which is producing one type of advanced procuct before. The dxxn extractor control unit costs 2600 power and 550 for each extractor head. The "33%" number comes from real extracting amount per cycle, comparing to "same power usage extators" before. So the CCP wants everyone to focus on only one basic prodcut in each planet? Maybe they think the price of rocket fuel is not high enough, so they should put it to 30k per unit.
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BinaryData
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:53:00 -
[2]
I feel your pain man. I was producing 1800 Noble Gas per 15 minutes, and producing about 200oxygen per hour. Now I'm barely making enough to fuel my POS for a day. This is outrageous.
The extractor's cost SOOO much in Power & CPU that you can only fit a little bit. I'm fed up with this. Your "new" features, are just ******ed..
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 18/01/2011 19:08:33 So, we have a system that was designed to improve PI and get more people involved.
What we got is a 30-50% reduction in production, a click and drag fest to replace the former click fest, more hauling, and waits for the pretty graphics that take long than the former waits for scanning.
So, we do twice the work and spend twice the time to get as much as half our former production. How is this an improvement?
CCP did get 1 thing right. Upgradeable Command Centers. So this was not 100% bad, just 90%.
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Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:10:00 -
[4]
What they want us to do is over-extract one P0, then move the heads, hoover up the next P0, move the heads and so on until you have enough raw stuff to start production.
Your planet CAN still produce the same products but it will take a few cycles to build up a big enough P0 buffer before production starts. On certain set-ups, you will require extra storage to hold all the over produced stuff for you.
Gone are the days of having mega-efficient colonies that simply required re-starting once a day. Now you have to work for it. Pain in the butt.
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BinaryData
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 18/01/2011 19:08:33 So, we have a system that was designed to improve PI and get more people involved.
What we got is a 30-50% reduction in production, a click and drag fest to replace the former click fest, more hauling, and waits for the pretty graphics that take long than the former waits for scanning.
So, we do twice the work and spend twice the time to get as much as half our former production. How is this an improvement?
CCP did get 1 thing right. Upgradeable Command Centers. So this was not 100% bad, just 90%.
I agree Worgen. I get their logic in not wanting to have people produce completed products on one planet, like my friend Zappaku said. So yeah, not a complete fail, but still a fail.
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RREBEL13
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:49:00 -
[6]
Yes the new Pi stinks. I went from extracting over 1000 per extractor to 47 with 4 extractors combined. With the way it is now it will take an entire corp working together to keep 1 pos going for 24 hrs and you can expect the PI fuels prices to skyrocket into the millions of isk per unit because of this blunder of CCP.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:58:00 -
[7]
And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:02:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Cergorach on 18/01/2011 20:03:39 I would almost like to call these threads manipulation threads they scare away folks from doing PI...
I just redid one colony (need to redo almost 50) and I'm not losing any production, but then again I was running on a 23hr cycles and not the 5hr cycles. So maybe CCP 'nerfed' the shorter cycles, maybe they 'nerfed' high-sec, maybe you guys are doing it wrong.
I can only be happy if there's less production from my competitors, I especially like it when my competitors just quit! Same demand, less supply is higher prices for me ;-)
I personally like the new interface at first try, have to see if I keep liking it after a few weeks...
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Julien Brellier What they want us to do is over-extract one P0, then move the heads, hoover up the next P0, move the heads and so on until you have enough raw stuff to start production.
Your planet CAN still produce the same products but it will take a few cycles to build up a big enough P0 buffer before production starts. On certain set-ups, you will require extra storage to hold all the over produced stuff for you.
Gone are the days of having mega-efficient colonies that simply required re-starting once a day. Now you have to work for it. Pain in the butt.
This.
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RREBEL13
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
Because it take 3000 units to make an item. when extractors are pulling 1000 units each you can make 1 product per 30 minutes but when it drops to 47 units per hour total it would take 63 hours to get enough stuff to built 1 unit.
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RREBEL13
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:15:00 -
[11]
Also when you go to place your heads on the scan location the scan info disappears leaving you holding your finger on the screen or a sticker to mark the correct location.
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Lyman Alpha
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:26:00 -
[12]
I'm trying to decide if I want to even screw with PI any more... or even if I want to continue playing EVE. I'm kinda' tired of learning a new game every time CCP brings out an expansion. I'm also tired of them ****ing with all my settings from the overview during one expansion to the shortcut keys with this one. IMO, they could screw up a wet dream.
I know... "can you haz my stuff?"
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BinaryData
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel.
I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective?
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lyman Alpha I'm trying to decide if I want to even screw with PI any more... or even if I want to continue playing EVE. I'm kinda' tired of learning a new game every time CCP brings out an expansion. I'm also tired of them ****ing with all my settings from the overview during one expansion to the shortcut keys with this one. IMO, they could screw up a wet dream.
I know... "can you haz my stuff?"
You should hve just stayed in Wow.
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Javajunky
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:33:00 -
[15]
+1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
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Lyman Alpha
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aunty Nora
Originally by: Lyman Alpha I'm trying to decide if I want to even screw with PI any more... or even if I want to continue playing EVE. I'm kinda' tired of learning a new game every time CCP brings out an expansion. I'm also tired of them ****ing with all my settings from the overview during one expansion to the shortcut keys with this one. IMO, they could screw up a wet dream.
I know... "can you haz my stuff?"
You should hve just stayed in Wow.
Sorry, jerk, I never played WOW.
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Lyman Alpha
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
Agree.
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:37:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 18/01/2011 20:42:52
Originally by: BinaryData
Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel.
I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective?
Its not cost effective. I fuel POSes, too (or I used to). I used 4 planets to produce all the POS fuel I needed (with some excess) for each Large POS. Don't bother trying that now, you need at least 9 planets or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:40:00 -
[19]
Preliminary tests from colleagues I think POS Fuel and PI stuff in general is going to skyrocket, or we need some major adjustments.
I gotta fix mine tomorrow sounds rough and discouraging.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
Is Incursions the new SWG:NGE? Time will tell, but if CCP screws up more than just the PI, I can see it happening.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:41:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Cergorach on 18/01/2011 20:42:12
Originally by: BinaryData
Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel.
I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective?
I don't know about you but I get actually more P0 when using an ECU with 10 heads then using 12 of the old extractors. I do use a little shorter cycle 17-18hrs instead of 23hrs, but that's not so problematic for me. I could actually produce ~10% more on a single planet that way, might be so much as 20% if I were to move most of my P1 production off planet, have to do some calculations, but it could be more profitable with virtually no extra work (my P2 production is already off planet so I could integrate it with the factory planets).
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cergorach Edited by: Cergorach on 18/01/2011 20:42:12
Originally by: BinaryData
Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel.
I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective?
I don't know about you but I get actually more P0 when using an ECU with 10 heads then using 12 of the old extractors. I do use a little shorter cycle 17-18hrs instead of 23hrs, but that's not so problematic for me. I could actually produce ~10% more on a single planet that way, might be so much as 20% if I were to move most of my P1 production off planet, have to do some calculations, but it could be more profitable with virtually no extra work (my P2 production is already off planet so I could integrate it with the factory planets).
Just the fact that you will be exporting P0's makes it less cost effective.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Oslarica So the CCP wants everyone to focus on only one basic prodcut in each planet?
At a time.
Stop thinking static production chains like old PI where you set up the colony one time.
You can now move the extraction heads. So, you harvest this P0 for a day, filling up some storage. Then tomorrow you move all the extractors and harvest a different P0...
Instead of a static, mindless clickfest, PI will now be more interactive.
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BinaryData
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:12:00 -
[24]
Well I have noticed that some of my planets do extract 100x more than they previously did.
Planets that have Ionic materials in them, can be produced easier than before. I scouted probably 100 planets and they all have relatively low Ionic Solutions, now I don't have that problem.
Worgen: I added you to my friends on my alt, had a few questions for you :)
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining.
THIS!
Gone is the static, mindless click fest of restarting extractors. Replaced with 1) moving P1s to a manufacturing planet or 2) treating your colony as dynamic.
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Jenny White
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:56:00 -
[26]
New PI system is totally screwed. I was PI'ing in a wormhole, producing 1 Mortar Applicator / hour completely alone. My producing line was perfectly balanced, letting me to run 5-hour cycles with stable outcome. and now, instead of my 3 extractors I can place only 1 head, because the rest dont fit in a powergrid!
in example, my previous extracting amount was about 24k in an hour for every raw material, so I was able to keep 4 processors busy nonstop. and now, with 1 head I got around 7.5k per hour! ~60% loss, CCP!
never thought that I would say something like that, but yes - Thank you CCP, you completely ruined PI system and made it totally worthless.
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining.
THIS!
Gone is the static, mindless click fest of restarting extractors. Replaced with 1) moving P1s to a manufacturing planet or 2) treating your colony as dynamic.
Exactly, more tedium for less output.
@Binary: Ask away.
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Zeke Ruach
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:02:00 -
[28]
This new update totally missed the point. The idea is not to log on and click for 30 minutes in order to be able to fuel a couple of pos's. Why not make it 1 click, or let it run on 23 hr. cycles indefinately? What used to take me 30 minutes in now going to take 2-3 hrs. I don't play Eve for resource management....
The only thing CCP got right was the upgradable command centers.
But, I don't need to worry. I'm done with planets and pos's. I can make more isk running missions.
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BolsterBomb
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:36:00 -
[29]
Although I am not a fan of the new PI changes, I liked spending the 3+ hours designing production lines and letting it work, just like moon mining. I didnt mind the "click fest". If figured thats how I "earned" my money.
A couple things with the new PI. I dont know if I exactly "like or hate it" it is different and changes take time to adjust to. PI WILL spike in POS fuel just like any other mat that has changes and then the market will readjust. What the devs did with this update was to move PI into line with DUST that is coming out. By having mobile extrator heads it will allow a player to still do PI as little xbox nymphos run around destroying our stuff. THAT is what I would worry about, how DUST will mess up PI.
The current system is doable but it takes more thought about how to run your planets. Please stop crying the world is coming to the end with PI. Heck birds are fallling from the sky around here and I find it comical. But please do so, stop PI that means more ISKIES for me. I already adjusted my planets to run with the new system before the patch so now harm here. THink it through and all will be fine.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zeke Ruach This new update totally missed the point. The idea is not to log on and click for 30 minutes in order to be able to fuel a couple of pos's. Why not make it 1 click, or let it run on 23 hr. cycles indefinately? What used to take me 30 minutes in now going to take 2-3 hrs. I don't play Eve for resource management....
The only thing CCP got right was the upgradable command centers.
But, I don't need to worry. I'm done with planets and pos's. I can make more isk running missions.
PI was not intended for you to get easy money with little work!
It was intended to be just another way for people to EARN money, by spending time and effort!
In EVE, for player-controlled areas of the economy, you get paid for EFFORT, not for how many of some item you produce. The reason for this is simple. If the price of the item is 'high', more people will do it, and prices will drop. If prices are 'low', some people will stop doing it, and prices will rise.
Most likely, after prices have adjusted, a PI'er will earn about the same per effort as he did before this change, only it'll be less mind-numbing (and less macro-able).
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kerfira
In EVE, for player-controlled areas of the economy, you get paid for EFFORT, not for how many of some item you produce. The reason for this is simple. If the price of the item is 'high', more people will do it, and prices will drop. If prices are 'low', some people will stop doing it, and prices will rise.
I'm sorry, but where is the effort in Invention? Hmm, install job and get a result (success or failure). No effort there.
Where is the effort in manufacturing? Hmm, install BP and have minerals, wait and get result. Again, no effort.
Trading, maybe? Well, there is effort if you change you buy and sell orders all the time in Jita, but elsewhere, no effort. Set up order and wait for result.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:58:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Sokrates Zosimus on 18/01/2011 23:02:07 Are you kidding me? You mean after all the training, all the millions of isk, all the time spent setting up, all that effort and weeks and months of work to make 5k p2 is just going to be blown up one night by someone in another game that we have no control over?
I guess you could play DUST yourself and eliminate the competition but then what if you turn your own planet into smouldering ruins? :D
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BinaryData
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus Edited by: Sokrates Zosimus on 18/01/2011 23:02:07 Are you kidding me? You mean after all the training, all the millions of isk, all the time spent setting up, all that effort and weeks and months of work to make 5k p2 is just going to be blown up one night by someone in another game that we have no control over?
I guess you could play DUST yourself and eliminate the competition but then what if you turn your own planet into smouldering ruins? :D
Question is; when will Dust be done? If they're failing this hard with new patches and what not with EVE, how is it going to be with "Dust"?
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Renain
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:10:00 -
[34]
So here I was doing the PI being able to create 1 lvl 3 item, now I cannot do it due to the changes in the PI structure. CCP, you make the ECU so costly in power that there is now no way to make items work. I had planned out a great little robotics PI, now that cannot be done due to the changes in power cost for the extractors. You at least could have made the extractors extract more than 1 item at a time for the HUGE power costs!
You could have changed the power output of the control centers! They no longer work under this new system!
CCP, you took a decently working system and made it much more complex and much more unworkable!
Please revert it back to the way it was before this change.
OR
Increase the CPU/Power amounts on the Control Centers!
I had a nice little oxygen producing Basic CC, I had to upgrade it in order to continue to make it work! Really?
For those trying to make POS fuels, well I guess CCP wanted to screw you. How many POS fuel generating planets in wormhole space no longer produce the items you needed?
For example: A one planet Robotics PI:
Looking at the numbers: Old system: Advanced Control Center: CPU: 21315 Power: 17000 1 Launch Pad: C: 3600 P: 700 1 AIF (Robotics) C: 500 P: 700 1 AIF (Mechanical Parts) C: 500 P: 700 1 AIF (Consumer Electronics C: 500 P: 700 1 BIF (Precious Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Reactive Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Toxic Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Chiral Structures)C: 200 P: 800 1 Storage (Hvy Metals) C: 500 P: 700 2 Extractor (Hvy Metals)C: 200 (400) P: 800 (1600) 1 Storage (Non-CS Crystals) C: 500 P: 700 2 Extractor (Non-CS Crystals) C: 200 (400) P: 800 (1600) 1 Storage (Base Metals) C: 500 P: 700 2 Extractor (Base Metals) C: 200 (400) P: 800 (1600) 1 Storage (Noble Metals) C: 500 P: 700 2 Extractor (Noble Metals) C: 200 (400) P: 800 (1600) Plus Links C: 232 P: 1,100 Totals: CPU:9,732 Power: 16,300
New System: Advanced Control Center: CPU: 21315 Power: 17000 1 Launch Pad: C: 3600 P: 700 1 AIF (Robotics) C: 500 P: 700 1 AIF (Mechanical Parts) C: 500 P: 700 1 AIF (Consumer Electronics C: 500 P: 700 1 BIF (Precious Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Reactive Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Toxic Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Chiral Structures)C: 200 P: 800 1 Extracting Control Unit(Hvy Metals)C: 510 P: 3150 1 Extracting Control Unit(Non-CS Crystals)C: 510 P: 3150 1 Extracting Control Unit(Base Metals)C: 510 P: 3150 1 Extracting Control Unit(Noble Metals)C: 510 P: 3150 Totals: NOT INCLUDING LINKS: CPU: 7,940 Power: 18,600 Not possible!!!!!!!!!!
I attempted to design a Robotics PI based off the new system: Advanced Control Center: CPU: 21315 Power: 17000 1 Launch Pad: C: 3600 P: 700 1 AIF (Mechanical Parts) C: 500 P: 700 1 Storage (Precious Metals & Reactive Metals) C: 500 P: 700 1 BIF (Precious Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 BIF (Reactive Metals) C: 200 P: 800 1 Extracting Control Unit(Base Metals)C: 510 P: 3150 1 Extracting Control Unit(Noble Metals)C: 510 P: 3150 6 Links (At level 0): C: 160 P: 113 Total: CPU: 6,180 Power: 10,113
In order to make Robotics you will need Consumer Electronics. Just for the extracting control units, 1 BIF, 1 AIF you will need C: 1,920 P: 8,600 This does not include links or a storage! Which means you will need: CPU: 8,100 + Power: 18,713 + This means an Elite CC, which only produces 19,000 power. So we have 287 power for the links!
Plain not working CCP! Total FAIL on your part!
Doubling the power output of the command centers would fix this issue.
Anyone else agree?
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Mahabhava
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:44:00 -
[35]
I agree. The people designing PI obviously did it just to be paid - without any regard for ppl who are actually enjoy playing and building POSs using that cheap PI fuel. The new system gives only 30% for the same time and not possible to manage.
1 day becomes 3 if someone don't get it.
Have to put all POSs down and sell all production mats and structures.
Thats all. NO complains - just back to anomalies. Simply less fun in game.
Thanks CCP
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Cunane
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:55:00 -
[36]
The new system is amazing, for example a single Barren Planet can produce:
Watercooled CPU's Nanites Mechcanical Parts Test Cultures Biocells
WITHOUT having to touch your colony, just change on a day by day as needed, if the market it is hot for say Biocells and your making Nanites? No problem, switch, profit the pins have such a long range your sure to be in a hot point.
So you may only be able to produce relibly one P2 product, but your not locked into it as you were.
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lushn
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:56:00 -
[37]
I totaly I agree. Only doubling up command center's power and cpu fixes this issue.
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Mirac Factar
Gallente Hypergolic
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cunane The new system is amazing, for example a single Barren Planet can produce:
Watercooled CPU's Nanites Mechcanical Parts Test Cultures Biocells
WITHOUT having to touch your colony, just change on a day by day as needed, if the market it is hot for say Biocells and your making Nanites? No problem, switch, profit the pins have such a long range your sure to be in a hot point.
So you may only be able to produce relibly one P2 product, but your not locked into it as you were.
Extend this a little and you can produce your P3 products on one planet too. This just in, the energizer bunny has been arrested and charged with battery. |
Zin Bloodjin
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Posted - 2011.01.19 01:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
Disagree.
Clickfest not fixed. You just have to have better aim now for all the teeny tiny icons... not to mention an extra 10 minutes to spare dropping your heads in new spots.
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Zin Bloodjin
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Posted - 2011.01.19 01:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Zeke Ruach
In EVE, for player-controlled areas of the economy, you get paid for EFFORT, not for how many of some item you produce. The reason for this is simple. If the price of the item is 'high', more people will do it, and prices will drop. If prices are 'low', some people will stop doing it, and prices will rise.
Most likely, after prices have adjusted, a PI'er will earn about the same per effort as he did before this change, only it'll be less mind-numbing (and less macro-able).
You'd have a point here if PI just launched for the first time today. It didn't, and you don't. Players have had control of the POS market for 6 months now, and it shows. A quick check of Robotics price history will make that painfully clear.
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Renain
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Posted - 2011.01.19 04:44:00 -
[41]
I played around some more with the new ECU. For every Extractor Head added, add 110 CPU and 550 Power usage. this means: 1 Extractor Control Unit w/1 Extractor Head costs: CPU: 510 Power: 3150 1 Extractor Control Unit w/2 Extractor Heads costs: CPU: 620 Power: 3700 1 Extractor Control Unit w/3 Extractor Heads costs: CPU: 730 Power: 4250 etc. to 1 Extractor Control Unit w/10 Extractor Heads (max) costs: CPU: 1500 Power: 8100
Several people have made the claim that you can change what the extractors are extracting and what the BIF and AIF are processing in order to make a second component. This maybe true, but think of all the added work and clicking!!!!
Sorry CCP, your change to PI is still a fail.
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DanRandolph
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Posted - 2011.01.19 05:08:00 -
[42]
I like the new system. I'm producing robotics, and the limitation is not power or the rate of extraction, but simply how fast the processors can produce the product. I only have two extractors per PO item and they easily supply my processors once I built up enough stock to get everything started. I'm running on a 24-hour program, so it's no more of a click-fest than I was doing before. Hauling is not a problem--I was already doing that to get the product to market.
From my perspective, PI now takes no more effort than before the change. It is more dynamic and less of a passive isk machine. So I guess for those people who wanted to just set something up and then sit back and collect isk with no effort, it's a bummer.
As for invention, manufacturing, or the reverse engineering taking little effort? You've obviously not done it much. Hauling billions of units of minerals to keep a BS production operation running takes time, and the cut-throat nature of the trade in Jita means you have to spend some time thinking in order to keep costs down and profit margins up.
I welcome the changes to this adult game that is meant to be played by adults.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
|
Posted - 2011.01.19 05:26:00 -
[43]
I welcome the new change. As I always state.. diversity is a good spice to add into an MMO. This change takes away the 'yawnfest' clicking of predictability and implements a strategic approach that actually feels more like a game, and less like tedious work.
There are more avenues one can walk down, more unique setups people can take, different procedures people can intiate to create an intricate and ever evolving scheme of planets to create what they wish and need. Such things.. aren't going to be welcome by some, namely those 'bitter-vet' personalities that scoff at change.. and must find normality in Past, rather than the Present. Those that are well, morons.. too stupid to adapt to change. Those that can't create anew. Those that must have it their way..
What is.. the 'right way'? I think most people were expecting some one big supa click per planet for all like-same extractors. Yes.. cause what everyone really wanted was a greater influx of people that join PI, and stay. Thus causing the forums to instead be filled with idiots wondering why PI product prices are falling.. and the ones that understand why, ***** out CCP for 'making PI too easy'.
I do hope, that the people that claim they will quit.. will actually stick by their words, and quit. Anyone else that is considering it cause they can't handle the new PI.. please quit also. It isn't for you.. not everything in life is going to be tailor made. That's some tough ****. Lesson learned, perhaps?
I get it tho, we all do.. it is tough for people to be clue'd in.. when they don't even truly understand what it is they want.
I got what I want tho.. more profits and a more entertaining to play PI. Thank you, CCP. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Oslarica
|
Posted - 2011.01.19 06:11:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Oslarica on 19/01/2011 06:12:14 Is the PI really dynamic? I would rather think it is more than a dynamite. The ECU can't move, so you'll spend 550k to set up and stand there with limited range. And if you want to change different type of extractions, don't forget to reset your route, even your basic facilities, advaned facilities. So its still a clicking rampage if you really want to be "dynamic" and still less productivity. Oh another point, the extraction amount is real "dynamic" , so you have better to set up a storage to preserve some extras, because it will drop after hours.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.19 06:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Umega I welcome the new change. As I always state.. diversity is a good spice to add into an MMO. This change takes away the 'yawnfest' clicking of predictability and implements a strategic approach that actually feels more like a game, and less like tedious work.
There are more avenues one can walk down, more unique setups people can take, different procedures people can intiate to create an intricate and ever evolving scheme of planets to create what they wish and need. Such things.. aren't going to be welcome by some, namely those 'bitter-vet' personalities that scoff at change.. and must find normality in Past, rather than the Present. Those that are well, morons.. too stupid to adapt to change. Those that can't create anew. Those that must have it their way..
What is.. the 'right way'? I think most people were expecting some one big supa click per planet for all like-same extractors. Yes.. cause what everyone really wanted was a greater influx of people that join PI, and stay. Thus causing the forums to instead be filled with idiots wondering why PI product prices are falling.. and the ones that understand why, ***** out CCP for 'making PI too easy'.
I do hope, that the people that claim they will quit.. will actually stick by their words, and quit. Anyone else that is considering it cause they can't handle the new PI.. please quit also. It isn't for you.. not everything in life is going to be tailor made. That's some tough ****. Lesson learned, perhaps?
I get it tho, we all do.. it is tough for people to be clue'd in.. when they don't even truly understand what it is they want.
I got what I want tho.. more profits and a more entertaining to play PI. Thank you, CCP.
So who's Dev alt are you. You are sucking so much CCP **** you can't be anything but.
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Transfer point
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Posted - 2011.01.19 06:42:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Transfer point on 19/01/2011 06:42:19
Originally by: Zin Bloodjin
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Zeke Ruach
In EVE, for player-controlled areas of the economy, you get paid for EFFORT, not for how many of some item you produce. The reason for this is simple. If the price of the item is 'high', more people will do it, and prices will drop. If prices are 'low', some people will stop doing it, and prices will rise.
Most likely, after prices have adjusted, a PI'er will earn about the same per effort as he did before this change, only it'll be less mind-numbing (and less macro-able).
You'd have a point here if PI just launched for the first time today. It didn't, and you don't. Players have had control of the POS market for 6 months now, and it shows. A quick check of Robotics price history will make that painfully clear.
Well, if you thought robotics was expensive before.....
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Yorinar
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Posted - 2011.01.19 06:46:00 -
[47]
I'm losing between 25-33% as well. With advanced command centers I could run 5-hr cycles and keep 4 adv industries producing mech parts 24/7. With these changes, the best I can hope for is 3 at about 22-24 hours per day.
Thanks CCP the changes suck and setting planets now takes forever with even more massive amounts of clicking and screwing around. BLEH
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Ranja Jeemana
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Posted - 2011.01.19 08:22:00 -
[48]
The new PI is garbage, and the complete and utter lack of ANY explanation about what changed and how to utilize the system now didn't help. I remember when PI was introduced, there were half a dozen really nice videos explaining how to use it and how to setup planets in different ways to best maximize your productions. The ability to realistically do Robotics (or ANY other L2 product for that matter) on a single planet now seems to be completely gone, and while those who dance around the argument that you can change what an extractor pulls up day by day have SOME point, there's still a gaping huge issue to me: you're still so damn powergrid starved by the new ECUs + Heads that you cannot afford to buy storage for the long-term processing and in order to change what a single processor is working on you still lose any product in it's bay - For L1 products that can really be costly.
I think there are any number of simple solutions to the problem, take your pick: 1. Increase the MW output of CCs a little (even just 15% would solve most issues) 2. Reduce the cost per ECU from 2600 to 1800, hell, you could even raise the cost of Heads to 700 if you did that - wouldn't bother me a bit 3. Flip the Power/CPU cost on processors, this has never made sense to me and always seemed reversed 4. Allow a single ECU to extract more than one resource type - the UI already makes this SEEM possible even though it's not! I can lay down a Head on one type of material, then lay down a new Head under another type - the Submit even gives me an error saying something about same frequency! If players shouldn't be ABLE to do something, the UI should be designed to prevent it from happening in the first place, eh?
I'm really sadly disappointed in the new PI changes. They either require me to fiddle with the system every day for an hour or three in order to change and optimize my extraction to fill an artificial queue that I never needed before, or they require me to move to a P0 planet system with a processor planet and haul P0 to the production world every day (not easy in low/null sec, and it's a LOT more expensive to Launch the P0 and the P1/P2 later).
In a nutshell, PI has become more expensive, more time-consuming, more risky, and it's never even offered much VALUE to players for their time invested in the first place, other than cutting POS fueling costs a bit. And I do mean just a BIT, not even saving me more than 40% of my costs. Compared to ratting, PI maybe made me about 1/10th the amount of ISK for the time I spent, and that was with nullsec PI. Now that's even less, by a very significant number.
Way to go, CCP. =/ I'm sorely tempted to just not run towers or do PI at all anymore. The only reason I even bothered was a severe lack of research labs for ME and PE research.
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Argonaught
Minmatar Cabbage Tea
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Posted - 2011.01.19 08:41:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
This.
Can't be bothered to explain more, CCP just won't bother listening.
Argo. ------------------------------------------------ Coming soom or never.sig |
Xndr 78
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Posted - 2011.01.19 09:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Renain Anyone else agree?
I do. New system became more powersucking. Yeah maybe playing with new "heads" is fun, but how can I play with them, when they dont fit in a powergrid? Just not to be stupid whining moron, here's a typical PI system on one of my planets (old system, anyway it's useless now so I can share):
http://yfrog.com/hs1u6p
as you see, with 4/4 skills I was able to fit all processors I needed to produce P2 on the same planet where I extract P0 materials. So with 4 such planets and 1 processing planet (for P3 and P4) I was able to produce 1 Mortar Applicator every hour. And it was perfectly balanced with powergrid. I really loved old PI system - it was one of my beloved parts of the game, I spend 3 days just playing with numbers to figure out how to produce P4 alone. And I did - producing 1 P4 item (Mortar Applicators) in an hour on my processing planet. And it was perfectly balanced. And more - I was able to produce a little other stuff like oxygen and any other P1-P2 product, just to keep all processors busy.
but what now? new extractors need more grid to produce the same amount the did before. here is the reasonable question - why? and if my new calculations is right - I cant afford the same extraction amount even with lvl5 CCs. What were you thinking about, CCP, when you were balancing new system? Were you balancing it at all? Of course, there are many players that can say "hey, what wrong? I can still produce robotics with help of my 3 planets, why are you so disappointed loool?". But what about players who mastered PI and who became real pro with that? Everyone of us is reporting about at least 30% loss, as for me - I got much more loss with new system. I dont even know what do now, because whole my system needs to be revamped. And I'm sure - I wont achieve producing amounts I had before just because of powergrid lack.
of course CCP can do whatever they want, but I thought they are doing it for players, not just to troll them.
new system is ... interesting but should be rebalanced to take less powergrid - either heads should need less grid or CCs should provide more. before that I (and I hope many real PI masters should agree with me) have to say that new PI sucks.
and sorry for my english it's not native for me.
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Infinitio Krystallos
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Posted - 2011.01.19 09:26:00 -
[51]
I think the whole thing is Fan-Freakin'-Tastic
Too many PI products were being made due to the ease of it causing dirt cheap prices <stares at Genetically Engineered Cows>, but only an extrememly few products were doing well out of around 100.
So great. Now it's more difficult to make PI products efficiently. That means much less product, and a lot less people bothering with PI since they don't like the new focus and thinking, and procedures required to optimize their PI setups.
Talk about s !!!!
But that demand ain't gonna go down. And less product out there means those prices are going up up up.
Therefore, my Wallet wins
I love the new PI.
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Bado Sten
Minmatar Republican Guard
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Posted - 2011.01.19 09:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Zeke Ruach This new update totally missed the point. The idea is not to log on and click for 30 minutes in order to be able to fuel a couple of pos's. Why not make it 1 click, or let it run on 23 hr. cycles indefinately? What used to take me 30 minutes in now going to take 2-3 hrs. I don't play Eve for resource management....
The only thing CCP got right was the upgradable command centers.
But, I don't need to worry. I'm done with planets and pos's. I can make more isk running missions.
PI was not intended for you to get easy money with little work!
It was intended to be just another way for people to EARN money, by spending time and effort!
In EVE, for player-controlled areas of the economy, you get paid for EFFORT, not for how many of some item you produce. The reason for this is simple. If the price of the item is 'high', more people will do it, and prices will drop. If prices are 'low', some people will stop doing it, and prices will rise.
Most likely, after prices have adjusted, a PI'er will earn about the same per effort as he did before this change, only it'll be less mind-numbing (and less macro-able).
^^
Finally someone that gets it. I quite like the new PI, especially without the click-fest that was.
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Xndr 78
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Posted - 2011.01.19 09:49:00 -
[53]
Infinitio Krystallos, yeah looks like it's just what CCP wanted! To make PI less popular and to force people to throw it away. Wait...
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Infinitio Krystallos
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Posted - 2011.01.19 10:00:00 -
[54]
Yup.
Seems like most of the suggestions to 'fix' things sure would make Macro-ing a whole lot easier.
This new PI is a Godsend really. Just wait a few weeks.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.01.19 10:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Originally by: Umega I welcome the new change. As I always state.. diversity is a good spice to add into an MMO. This change takes away the 'yawnfest' clicking of predictability and implements a strategic approach that actually feels more like a game, and less like tedious work.
There are more avenues one can walk down, more unique setups people can take, different procedures people can intiate to create an intricate and ever evolving scheme of planets to create what they wish and need. Such things.. aren't going to be welcome by some, namely those 'bitter-vet' personalities that scoff at change.. and must find normality in Past, rather than the Present. Those that are well, morons.. too stupid to adapt to change. Those that can't create anew. Those that must have it their way..
What is.. the 'right way'? I think most people were expecting some one big supa click per planet for all like-same extractors. Yes.. cause what everyone really wanted was a greater influx of people that join PI, and stay. Thus causing the forums to instead be filled with idiots wondering why PI product prices are falling.. and the ones that understand why, ***** out CCP for 'making PI too easy'.
I do hope, that the people that claim they will quit.. will actually stick by their words, and quit. Anyone else that is considering it cause they can't handle the new PI.. please quit also. It isn't for you.. not everything in life is going to be tailor made. That's some tough ****. Lesson learned, perhaps?
I get it tho, we all do.. it is tough for people to be clue'd in.. when they don't even truly understand what it is they want.
I got what I want tho.. more profits and a more entertaining to play PI. Thank you, CCP.
So who's Dev alt are you. You are sucking so much CCP **** you can't be anything but.
What an original and witty comment. Contribute nothing but a baseless assumption cemented on the fact that someone is a fan of this game, and enjoys a feature they implemented. I do, infact pay to play this Game.. cause I enjoy it. I rather like the new PI over the old one for several legitament reasons. I suppose that makes me a 'fanboy'. Huh.
So what are the people called that dislike/hate CCP and this game they developed? You know the type.. the ones that angrily yell with irate aggression towards their computer monitor every single day only to wake up and do it again, all while paying either their rl money or slaving in the game they hate for iskies to continue doing so. Posting in the forums with all their bent up hatred, eagerly trolling for a snapping point. What are those people called again..
So, Deandra.. is 'witless masochistic moron' your final response? Or are you going to contribute something more than 'I hate this because I make more money on less goods with less overall work' or is it the 'I fail to comprehand how this new system operates effciently, so I can't make my null/wh production flourish at lucrative levels a smarter person than me would achieve to fuel my POS(s)' or the very popular 'I do not like nor can I handle and adapt to change, bring back EOS!'? I'm sure, like most negative responses so far.. it'll fall into one of them three catagories.
But by all means.. when all else fails in ur mind and you can't conjure up anything to attack the points with.. go with attacking me directly, using some derogatory statement or comment slur. ****ing Brilliant.
So.. how many of the 'new PI Cons' in here are on the side of *****ing out CCP if they make a sigment of the game.. 'Too easy'? Eh.. anyone? This lure isn't too fat n obvious.. is it? ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Mr Antisocial
|
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:10:00 -
[56]
I really like the new changes and here is why.
I have 4 accounts, 10 characters currently doing PI. I have 54 command centers currently operational. 6 of those command centers are doing nothing but Advanced and High tech processors. The click fest I used to have to do was ridiculous, but now I just log in to a character, go to planet I, restart extractor I have setup at 8 hours instead of clicking umteen billion extractors.
I have noticed that it would be more difficult to do multiple items at the same time on the same planet, but I am fine with just using 1 extractor unit per planet. Clicking a total of 3 times per planet compared to each exctrator is fine by me. How about a Planetary Command Center that actually commands something! |
Macaya
|
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:19:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
/Agreed
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Yorinar
|
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mr Antisocial
I have noticed that it would be more difficult to do multiple items at the same time on the same planet, but I am fine with just using 1 extractor unit per planet. Clicking a total of 3 times per planet compared to each exctrator is fine by me.
I agree, doing one resource per planet is actually fine and didn't reduce my intake by much if at all. Doing two resources on a planet reduces my production by about 33% on average, sometimes more, like on gas planets where links are ridiculous. I also revise my previous opinion about clickfest, this is an improvement once you set the planet up *IF* you don't fool around with adjusting head locations.
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Lyman Alpha
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.24 00:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Oslarica So the CCP wants everyone to focus on only one basic prodcut in each planet?
At a time.
Stop thinking static production chains like old PI where you set up the colony one time.
You can now move the extraction heads. So, you harvest this P0 for a day, filling up some storage. Then tomorrow you move all the extractors and harvest a different P0...
Instead of a static, mindless clickfest, PI will now be more interactive.
Yeah. Now is is a click-and-dragfest instead of just a clickfest.
Very time consuming and irritating. I hate the change.
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Lyman Alpha
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.24 01:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Mr Antisocial I really like the new changes and here is why.
I have 4 accounts, 10 characters currently doing PI. I have 54 command centers currently operational. 6 of those command centers are doing nothing but Advanced and High tech processors. The click fest I used to have to do was ridiculous, but now I just log in to a character, go to planet I, restart extractor I have setup at 8 hours instead of clicking umteen billion extractors.
I have noticed that it would be more difficult to do multiple items at the same time on the same planet, but I am fine with just using 1 extractor unit per planet. Clicking a total of 3 times per planet compared to each exctrator is fine by me.
I'm wondering if you are really doing any PI. Or, if you are, why you haven't noticed that if you don't move those heads around you will get lower and lower productions. That means that instead of just clicking to restart extractors, you have to click the head, find a place where it will still produce reasonably well, and then do the same for the other 9 heads per ECU. If you don't realize this yet, you haven't run very many cycles.
What's wrong with the new PI? It isn't fun. Even the first couple times of rearranging the heads isn't much fun.
CCP isn't making a game, they are making a mindless job on an assembly line, a lot like their mining is. More mining! Yea! Just what we wanted!!!
Really? Is clicking a mining head and dragging it around to find a new location 10 to 20 times (depending on how many heads you have), then restarting the ECU(s) and doing that once a day for 365 days a year your idea of fun?
Have a ball.
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harry varmint
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Posted - 2011.01.24 03:34:00 -
[61]
I'm one of the 0.3%.Haven't been able to do anything involving EVE other than read forums.Almost... almost glad I can't play anymore.
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Quartermaster General
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Posted - 2011.01.24 05:24:00 -
[62]
My two cents!
HATE the new PI!
A simple solution to the click fest would have been to just make it were you can start all extractors (in the old PI) at an hourly rate to mine with one or two clicks. Seems simple! "Start all extractors" sub "5 hours" click...done!!
But no, now you send more time fishing for ore than mining it. Heck I didn't known ore could move around like that. Seems physically imposable!
CCP, even though I appreciate the try, go back to the old way and make it less of a click fest. Keep it simple.
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Dazram
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Posted - 2011.01.24 05:25:00 -
[63]
I'm on the " New PI Sucks Ass " band wagon.
Simply put, they went about the whole thing wrong.
I personally think CCP should offer a refund of SP's invested into PI to help quell the anger. That would be very redeeming.
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bukchoi
|
Posted - 2011.01.24 05:51:00 -
[64]
cry more quit pi more profits for me ^&^
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.01.24 06:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Quartermaster General My two cents!
HATE the new PI!
A simple solution to the click fest would have been to just make it were you can start all extractors (in the old PI) at an hourly rate to mine with one or two clicks. Seems simple! "Start all extractors" sub "5 hours" click...done!!
But no, now you send more time fishing for ore than mining it. Heck I didn't known ore could move around like that. Seems physically imposable!
CCP, even though I appreciate the try, go back to the old way and make it less of a click fest. Keep it simple.
Spoken like a true macro user.. or a very lazy person.
It's called Earning.
Why don't you step back, think for moment the result of having one big click to start all extractors. Imagine how many people hated the old system, the mind numbing and tediously boring clickfest. So many had quit that system, or simply did not bother with it. If a 'single-On switch' was implemented and nothing else changed.. you'd have a flood of people doing PI now. And a vast majority doing 30min-5hr cycles, rather than 23. As well as all the macros that existed, which would continue to esculate...
Result.. PI products would head on a downward slope from a massive influx spike in supply.
What happened with the Insurance change, mission loot, and drone-goo change? Everyone thought the sky was going to fall. Mining would only be left to ABCs and macros.. CCP is full of idiots.. every miner/ganker/mission runner hated CCP. CCP left it alone...
Result.. Mining is more profitable now than it was before. Missioners and Gankers got over it, and continued to do what they do. Today it hit over 63k people on server.. after many years, this MMO and the company that runs it continue to increase the amount of subscriptions and the playerbase year after year.
Yes, EVE is dying because a couple dozen people show up on the forums and complain. They go 7-year old mental up in here, and threaten to quit.
The new PI system may require more work, but that depends on how far you want to take it. It has now, varying degrees of depth to it than before. You can, if you so desire.. make it work and run faster than before, in terms of clicking. At less yield.. want more, work more. I find it more entertaining to do, way more so than before.. therefor I enjoy the additional work for more product. It also helps to eradicate macros, til and if they can readjust.. it also helps to eradict lazy no-bodies.. it also helps to eradicate idiots and morons..
Result.. think, Nocxium. There is still plenty of surplus.. supply isn't going to fall off the map over night. Prices will raise.. as the amount of goods added into the market place will drop as the macro/lazy/idiot played planets cease to exist.
While it has a couple of bugs.. the new system is still far superior in a variety of ways over the old. Work more, get more. Do less, get less. Yeah.. that sounds about how it should be. No one is forcing anyone to do it.. so if you don't like PI.. don't do it.
CCP ain't forcing any of you that hate it to eat your vegatables.. throw your plate on the floor if you want.. but be sure that when you run off and leave, you actually do it instead of coming back to look like a selfish flakey Fake. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Dazram
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Posted - 2011.01.24 06:10:00 -
[66]
Hot spots moving out of range of ECUs ****es me off.
Make it where the hot spots don't move quite as far. Still encourages moving of heads but doesn't move the resource so far that you can't reach it anymore.
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Mr Antisocial
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Posted - 2011.01.24 08:14:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Lyman Alpha
Originally by: Mr Antisocial I really like the new changes and here is why.
I have 4 accounts, 10 characters currently doing PI. I have 54 command centers currently operational. 6 of those command centers are doing nothing but Advanced and High tech processors. The click fest I used to have to do was ridiculous, but now I just log in to a character, go to planet I, restart extractor I have setup at 8 hours instead of clicking umteen billion extractors.
I have noticed that it would be more difficult to do multiple items at the same time on the same planet, but I am fine with just using 1 extractor unit per planet. Clicking a total of 3 times per planet compared to each exctrator is fine by me.
I'm wondering if you are really doing any PI. Or, if you are, why you haven't noticed that if you don't move those heads around you will get lower and lower productions. That means that instead of just clicking to restart extractors, you have to click the head, find a place where it will still produce reasonably well, and then do the same for the other 9 heads per ECU. If you don't realize this yet, you haven't run very many cycles.
What's wrong with the new PI? It isn't fun. Even the first couple times of rearranging the heads isn't much fun.
CCP isn't making a game, they are making a mindless job on an assembly line, a lot like their mining is. More mining! Yea! Just what we wanted!!!
Really? Is clicking a mining head and dragging it around to find a new location 10 to 20 times (depending on how many heads you have), then restarting the ECU(s) and doing that once a day for 365 days a year your idea of fun?
Have a ball.
Yes I am very involved in PI. I just don't put all my extractor heads in the same place, if you put your ECU in a place where you can reach two different hotspots and spread out the extractor heads, they don't beat the hotspot up that bad. I also don't worry about pulling the best I can possibly pull from each extractor head. How about a Planetary Command Center that actually commands something! |
Disteeler
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.24 08:24:00 -
[68]
Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
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Lady Gabriela
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Posted - 2011.01.24 08:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
no, people (players, paying customers) just dont want to agree with certain "features" which are nothing else then design errors in calculating ( bugs. The UI is very good. The rest is bull****. I have Planetology at 5, AP at 4. The scan is very much incorrect. If I place extractors at white spots I get not an improvement many times. But next to it where the area becomes light red or even yellow/green it jumps up in numbers. When you place a new miner then the figures are gone again. This is trial and error searching and takes longer the the click-fest before. 40-50% loss in production is for me a cashual player very very much.
sorry CCP, -8 from my side.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.24 09:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
And they forget that when it is indeed a "1 click profit system", all the profits disappear rather quickly. To be honest, the new system isn't that much work, how much time does it take to move ten heads? Sure, if you want a perfect extraction rate every time, it takes some time, but what those OCD types forget that the extra few percent extraction isn't worth the extra time. Double click on the ECU, zoom out, locate the highest density in range of the ECU, move heads. I can move 10 heads in the time it took me to activate 12 extractors and get ~same extraction, due to the way the programs work I can get actually a lot more with very little extra work.
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SENTIENEL
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Posted - 2011.01.24 10:12:00 -
[71]
in old system there was less click than new system. It was exactly 4 click for per extractor. Now you have to click ecu, then one click to chose every head than cpl drag clisks for find new place .
Slider is terrible, you need many click to set exact time cycle you want.
PLus interface too slow, if any cycle time more than cpl hours chosen, graphic bars refresh takin too much time.
ECUs are usin too much power you dont have any flexbility to delete one extractor and add one more processor to use surplus
Even u decommision two head , power grid you get back only let one processor.
Basicly resource map became interactive, but ECU power system not flexible enuff to catch up with this flexibility. In old system everthing was constant. If you find perfect ratio, it wasnt needed to change any structure. Now resource interactive, But you are not able to change you infrastructure with same flexiblity.
In old system if you using same cycle then link load were always same. now if you move one head better position , yield increases, link overload , route goes red but no warning that route doesnt work . also vice versa, you installed head, links required upgrade , you ve done upgrade but later cycles resource drop upgraded link become useless.
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Nairuhk
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Posted - 2011.01.24 11:03:00 -
[72]
A hint:
As well as having a large area coverered by the ECU you can also move the ECU itself. Cost 45,000 isk - ie almost nothing. Same cost as one original Extractor, but you get to move all 10 heads.
So: Don't place your new storage/lauchpads near the resources any more. Place them somewhere central to a variety of hotspots and move your heads, or even the ECU itself every few days to maximise resources.
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2011.01.24 11:18:00 -
[73]
More people fed up with new PI?
Good, good, good. Glad to see it. Maybe we can filter out the idiots that sell for like 1/10th fair value as well.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.24 11:42:00 -
[74]
So far the ones all loving the new PI are Macro/Bot hauler types.. They dont mind all the hauling and crap cause they dont do it.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.01.24 11:54:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
Yes, that's exactly the same impression I get as well. Hell, some of them are even bold enough to say it.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.24 11:55:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Shakon So far the ones all loving the new PI are Macro/Bot hauler types.. They dont mind all the hauling and crap cause they dont do it.
That is totally BS, I think the new PI is decent, and I don't Macro. When I read the reasons why it is so bad, I'm thinking "MORONS!", they are clicking way to much. The amount of clicks I have to make with the new system is less then half then with the old system, and that is with moving all the heads (sometimes it isn't necessary at all to move them at all).
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.01.24 12:03:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Shakon So far the ones all loving the new PI are Macro/Bot hauler types.. They dont mind all the hauling and crap cause they dont do it.
UMAD?
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Zaerui
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Posted - 2011.01.24 12:29:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Rykuss
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
Yes, that's exactly the same impression I get as well. Hell, some of them are even bold enough to say it.
And some of us want to play a game and not pay CCP to have a second job. CCP has always treated industry as an afterthought and with the new PI system the level of babysitting for PI has gotten stupid. They can't even be bothered to put together a guide for the new system (the link they put on the home page goes to the OLD PI guide with occassional "This isn't valid anymore" update). As a poster stated earlier - we now have to spend twice the time to get half the results. I already spend enough time babysitting the rest of the industry chains I've got going; I was hoping the PI change would ease off the clickfest so I might, you know, be able to do something else in the game.
Ah well, one week left on the subscription, then off to something else. You all enjoy paying CCP to do their jobs for them.
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2011.01.24 12:32:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Nicky''s Tomb on 24/01/2011 12:33:17
Originally by: Shakon So far the ones all loving the new PI are Macro/Bot hauler types.. They dont mind all the hauling and crap cause they dont do it.
Let me see, I do my PI in deep low sec. Hauling is not exactly safe, so I have a small blockade runner.
Before new PI I had to haul out P1 every 3-4 days or the customs office would fill up. I'd have to haul 2 or 3 loads out to the factory planet every 2 days to keep it running. To do all this hauling after I log in, takes about 10 minutes.
Most days I just restart extractors and undock long enough to import P1 to the factory.
With new PI I'm producing MORE P1 from the extractor planets, so I have to haul it out slightly more often. I also need to fire up a second factory planet to get rid of the mountain of P1 building up in my hangar.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.01.24 12:40:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Zaerui
Originally by: Rykuss
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
Yes, that's exactly the same impression I get as well. Hell, some of them are even bold enough to say it.
And some of us want to play a game and not pay CCP to have a second job. CCP has always treated industry as an afterthought and with the new PI system the level of babysitting for PI has gotten stupid. They can't even be bothered to put together a guide for the new system (the link they put on the home page goes to the OLD PI guide with occassional "This isn't valid anymore" update). As a poster stated earlier - we now have to spend twice the time to get half the results. I already spend enough time babysitting the rest of the industry chains I've got going; I was hoping the PI change would ease off the clickfest so I might, you know, be able to do something else in the game.
Ah well, one week left on the subscription, then off to something else. You all enjoy paying CCP to do their jobs for them.
So long! I have plenty of time to do other things in-game. Why you don't is beyond me, unless you only have a few minutes a day to play. If that were the case, I can't imagine you'd have time to do anything else either. Oh before I forget, "I can haz ur stuffz"?!
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2011.01.24 13:03:00 -
[81]
I honestly think the main problem is people being anal about the numbers and running short cycles.
Moving heads about... never had to do this.
Changing materials on the ECU... never had to do this.
Resources depleting... never noticed.
I just "Stop Program", "Start Program" "Exit Planet Mode". Come back 24 hours later and there is a pile of P1 for me to pick up.
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Quetazoid
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Posted - 2011.01.24 13:28:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Quetazoid on 24/01/2011 13:28:19 I love the new pi, its much better.
steady income for no effort.
or
much better income for slightly more effort.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.24 13:30:00 -
[83]
Sure Nicky your like that Idiot Umega that just claimed mining became more profitable after loot change
Ill believe you when i see a Politician Open up his mouth with out saying something stupid or a lie.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.01.24 15:18:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Di Mulle on 24/01/2011 15:19:15
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
Exactly.
Previous system forced dumb clickfest on everyone, without any interaction whatsoever. Naturally, even the most stubborn minmaxers screamed for removal of clickity click.
Now we got slight hint of dynamics and interaction (too little still, but at least something). And you are only forced to prolonged click-and-drag fest if you want to minmax everything. Well, you are assumed to make some effort, aren't you. Sorry guys, but what you wanted and hoped for is a dumbest system ever and a kindest invitation for macros.
Of course, I still think the whole PI thing is extremely far from what it once talked about to be and should be remade from the scratch. That means throwing out all the oh-so-precious setups out of the window completely, amongst other consequences.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.24 16:02:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Di Mulle Edited by: Di Mulle on 24/01/2011 15:19:15
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
Exactly.
Previous system forced dumb clickfest on everyone, without any interaction whatsoever. Naturally, even the most stubborn minmaxers screamed for removal of clickity click.
Now we got slight hint of dynamics and interaction (too little still, but at least something). And you are only forced to prolonged click-and-drag fest if you want to minmax everything. Well, you are assumed to make some effort, aren't you. Sorry guys, but what you wanted and hoped for is a dumbest system ever and a kindest invitation for macros.
Of course, I still think the whole PI thing is extremely far from what it once talked about to be and should be remade from the scratch. That means throwing out all the oh-so-precious setups out of the window completely, amongst other consequences.
I agree, I really hoped for some sort of SimCity or Civilization like game where your colony is affected by the other players on the planet, events in the constellation (Sansha Incursion has a negative influence, etc.), and eventually Dust514 interaction. Currently it is a less then ideal mini game, the idea had a lot of potential, but poorly executed.
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Zaerui
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Posted - 2011.01.24 16:19:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Rykuss So long! I have plenty of time to do other things in-game. Why you don't is beyond me, unless you only have a few minutes a day to play. If that were the case, I can't imagine you'd have time to do anything else either. Oh before I forget, "I can haz ur stuffz"?!
And don't let the door kick me in the @ss on the way out?
If you have time, you're probably not an industrialist (or are one of those PVPers who thinks snagging some hauler mins and building a T1 ship is "industry"). Either that, or your l33t industry skillz are far superior to my noob toon
I do have a job, family and a life - I know.. most folks who play EVE aren't familiar with these esoteric things. Google them if you don't know what they are. So, yes, I can't sit at the computer all day babysitting my chains.
My stuffz are going to my corpies, sorry. They are already talking about downsizing the operation because it's more difficult to manage now. I wish them luck.
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Black Dahliala
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:04:00 -
[87]
Sorry, I see no freakin gain in setting up a system that I now have to constantly drag extractor heads around as opposed to the click fest previously!
At the most I should only have to the extractor heads once every two to four weeks.
Epic fail CCP!
I quit doing the old PI because of the click fest. I'll go back to trading and building only.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.01.24 21:01:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Zaerui
Originally by: Rykuss So long! I have plenty of time to do other things in-game. Why you don't is beyond me, unless you only have a few minutes a day to play. If that were the case, I can't imagine you'd have time to do anything else either. Oh before I forget, "I can haz ur stuffz"?!
And don't let the door kick me in the @ss on the way out?
If you have time, you're probably not an industrialist (or are one of those PVPers who thinks snagging some hauler mins and building a T1 ship is "industry"). Either that, or your l33t industry skillz are far superior to my noob toon
I do have a job, family and a life - I know.. most folks who play EVE aren't familiar with these esoteric things. Google them if you don't know what they are. So, yes, I can't sit at the computer all day babysitting my chains.
My stuffz are going to my corpies, sorry. They are already talking about downsizing the operation because it's more difficult to manage now. I wish them luck.
Yep, industrialist. Mining, manufacturing, hauling, PI and everything that comes with it. I even find time to mission. Family, job, yadda yadda...check. What was your point? You certainly like to make assumptions about others that are able to do things you can't (or won't, I gather). While you were typing out your whine posts, you could've been "babysitting" your chains.
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Zaerui
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Posted - 2011.01.24 21:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Rykuss Yep, industrialist. Mining, manufacturing, hauling, PI and everything that comes with it. I even find time to mission. Family, job, yadda yadda...check. What was your point? You certainly like to make assumptions about others that are able to do things you can't (or won't, I gather). While you were typing out your whine posts, you could've been "babysitting" your chains.
Oh - you're a troll. Nevermind.
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Ulysses Icarusson
Doom Guard Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:32:00 -
[90]
it seems it takes 8 planets to produce a P4 item. It used to take 4.. WTH? I expect a patch or I expect prices to go through the roof. This is nuts. Didn't you look at high end products at all?
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.01.25 03:10:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Shakon Sure Nicky your like that Idiot Umega that just claimed mining became more profitable after loot change
Ill believe you when i see a Politician Open up his mouth with out saying something stupid or a lie.
Either just trying to ruffle feathers.. or you run a **** poor mining/indy orientated corp and have zero ability to calculate simple mathematics. In which case.. yeah, I do bet that the new PI sucks ass for someone like you. You should stop doing it, no one is making you. You should get out of a mining corp too. You might just want to quit, focus on real life before the crazy and evil Politicians in the world come out and get you with their serpent like forked-tongues. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.25 06:22:00 -
[92]
Still trolling Umega... Just restart your mining bot.. Since thats how your making more mining.
Better yet go back to wow with your farming bot
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Pooboi
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Posted - 2011.01.25 07:26:00 -
[93]
Agree with OP. New Pi is utter garbage. Poorly designed, poorly implemented, more work/less reward, inaccurate numbers/scan results, laggy interface, not more 'fun' or dynamic. Not the end of the world but yeah, major disappointment.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.01.25 07:46:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Shakon Still trolling Umega... Just restart your mining bot.. Since thats how your making more mining.
Better yet go back to wow with your farming bot
What's the matter.. so angry. You beginning to realize that you've invested rl money into a game you suck at? That must.. suck. I get that I am being trolled atm. Normally I don't bite.. but you're one of them special folks, with special needs. You've made that so clear in all your posts so far.
Got anything intelligent to add to the discussion, or is 'the new PI encourages and helps bot users' really going to be your final answer? And no.. the increasing costs of ships isn't a figment of your imagination spurred on by your own personal dellusional notions of whats happening. In that twisted world you tread along, mineral value has nothing to do with it. No.. not at all.
So.. I'm sure you believe yourself to be a very bright fellow. You seem to be inclined to believe so much in yourself, you are 'in the know'. Prove it. Indulge me in a wager, Shakon. 500 million Isk.. how does one win? Felsic Magma, Water, Rocket Fuel, Robotics, And Broadcast Nodes.. predict how much each one of those are going to be valued at in 45 days time from today. One with majority of predictions being closest.. wins.
Whats say you, troll?
I can make accusations too.. I wonder if you can even pony up 500m, especially with the new PI screwing up all your PI bot farms from running.
And no.. I don't need a macro-miner to know what modules to purchase/buyout and melt for profit to catch a mineral wave. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Razgon
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:58:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Razgon on 25/01/2011 09:04:10
Edited to my bad language
Umega? Your one who claimed being able to mine was more profitable now with insurance and loot changes.
Maybe you should prove it?
I agree new system has some good things but alot of its crap. Not to mention the hauling part. I had to spread out my production from 4 to 8 planets. that doesnt seem like an improvement to me. I have to fly round low sec and haul it. Which you apparently do not. Sounds like a Botter to me. Unless of course you barely do PI which means you shouldnt be mouthing off anyway.
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BoboDutch
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:02:00 -
[96]
Originally by: BinaryData I feel your pain man. I was producing 1800 Noble Gas per 15 minutes, and producing about 200oxygen per hour. Now I'm barely making enough to fuel my POS for a day. This is outrageous.
The extractor's cost SOOO much in Power & CPU that you can only fit a little bit. I'm fed up with this. Your "new" features, are just ******ed..
I really love this new system. atm I'm extracting about 55k/h. that is 13k per 15 min. and you where happy with 1800/15min? you are doing something wrong.
about the power old: 1 extractor was 800MW power grid so 10 extracors -> 8000MW
new: ECU -> 2100 MW each head 550MW 10 heads + ECU = 8100 MW
wow 100 MW power more....
*note I do use planets in 0.1 sec, it is well known that low sec system give better extraction amounts
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:12:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Shakon on 25/01/2011 09:13:01 U mad Bro? HAHAH cry some more, Still waiting for you to show me how Mining has got more profitable, That alone proves your stupid, As for 500 mil why pay some one eventually ill run across you on your account either botting or doing something stupid and pop you myself save me some isk that way.
I do like the moveing the Heads but I do not like having to use double the planets to produce the same stuff,actually slightly less stuff. Not to mention somethings wrong with the routing numbers not matching.
Ah well maybe it will be like most of 0.0 CCP approved bots. They can just add a PI bot to the ratting bot all the big power blocks use, Edited i fergot to add... Can I have your stuff? HTFU
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Mordrake
Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.01.26 00:02:00 -
[98]
PI is a big pain in the ass now, will be lucky to keep half production going now, it seems to make hardly any difference how long a cycle you run, I used to run 5 hour cycles to get good raw material flow, now it is impossible to get any kind of volume going in the raw materials.
Hot spots deplete fast and I have moved my setups to be clusters of 3 or 4 Simple production factories with an ECU and launchpad which I periodically move around the planet chasing the minerals.
You can no longer maintain any intense P2 production on a single planet with the P1 able to run through links to the P2 factories. You now need to have your two mobile Clusters chasing the two minerals you need and have a third launchpad and the Advanced production factories static, shipping the P1 up to the customs office and back down for the next stage of processing.
PI is now CCP's newest Isk Sink with all the rebuilding and shipping they are now forcing us to do.
Those of you who love the new PI you are idiots.
"Arte et Marte" |
Mirac Factar
Gallente Hypergolic
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Posted - 2011.01.26 00:57:00 -
[99]
mmmm I'm already making more profit than I was pre-patch because of the changes.
So yeah keep quitting PI everyone, I'll make more money when you all stop supplying and the prices rise.
Thanks CCP for the changes.
This just in, the energizer bunny has been arrested and charged with battery. |
Gheeveetto Meyargen
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Posted - 2011.01.26 01:28:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Mirac Factar mmmm I'm already making more profit than I was pre-patch because of the changes.
So yeah keep quitting PI everyone, I'll make more money when you all stop supplying and the prices rise.
Thanks CCP for the changes.
I find this attitude rather short sighted. Yes you may be able to take advantage of the problems, and more profit for you, great!!
But it is clearly borked.
Do you want more borking in the pursuit of profits?
OK. Lets nerf missiles by 10,000%, you now need thousands of them to kill the smallest of ships! Great profit for missile makers - sure, but clearly a game destroying bork all the same. And not so great for ship makers btw. Why stop there, bork everything, there is always profits to be had in any and every situation!
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tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.01.26 01:38:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Gheeveetto Meyargen
I find this attitude rather short sighted. Yes you may be able to take advantage of the problems, and more profit for you, great!! But it is clearly borked. Do you want more borking in the pursuit of profits? OK. Lets nerf missiles by 10,000%, you now need thousands of them to kill the smallest of ships! Great profit for missile makers - sure, but clearly a game destroying bork all the same. And not so great for ship makers btw. Why stop there, bork everything, there is always profits to be had in any and every situation
Wholeheartedly agreed. This smug attitude - i'll make more profit - is just crass and shortsighted. yeah so they have nerfed PI so it takes three times as long to get the same result. I would expect this to have a non linear knock on in prices. I am predicting that prices for p2 will double. this will not be good for the game. But will be great for a whole load of smug little ****bags.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.01.26 08:31:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Gheeveetto Meyargen
Originally by: Mirac Factar mmmm I'm already making more profit than I was pre-patch because of the changes.
So yeah keep quitting PI everyone, I'll make more money when you all stop supplying and the prices rise.
Thanks CCP for the changes.
I find this attitude rather short sighted. Yes you may be able to take advantage of the problems, and more profit for you, great!!
But it is clearly borked.
Do you want more borking in the pursuit of profits?
OK. Lets nerf missiles by 10,000%, you now need thousands of them to kill the smallest of ships! Great profit for missile makers - sure, but clearly a game destroying bork all the same. And not so great for ship makers btw. Why stop there, bork everything, there is always profits to be had in any and every situation!
Totally agree. If people are going to make more money with the new PI they wouldn't complain at all. Users complain that the balance is broken, not to mention the number of options you had with the old PI. If you want to do less work, you could make P2 and P3 on single planet and you would make less money out of it. If you do it as profession you know how to get the best out of your skills, and run a short 5h cycles. With the new patch you can't do P3 on single planet and the P2 chain is totally broken. The users that used to do 5h cycles are totally screwed...
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Xorak
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:05:00 -
[103]
I can no longer route from extractor control unit to a storage.. Is anyone else having this problem?
It seems extracted materials can only be routed directly to the processor. When I try to route to a storage unit I get "dangerous levels of congestion" message even if all I have is a CC, ECU, and storage facility with only one link between the two. Am I doing something wrong, or is the PI hosed until the next patch? |
DutchBobo
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:53:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Xorak I can no longer route from extractor control unit to a storage.. Is anyone else having this problem?
It seems extracted materials can only be routed directly to the processor. When I try to route to a storage unit I get "dangerous levels of congestion" message even if all I have is a CC, ECU, and storage facility with only one link between the two. Am I doing something wrong, or is the PI hosed until the next patch?
You are probley trying to send more m3/h down the line than it van handle. try upgrading, I usually have 1000m3/h links between the ECU and my launhpad
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Drifterjack
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:12:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon Its not cost effective. I fuel POSes, too (or I used to). I used 4 planets to produce all the POS fuel I needed (with some excess) for each Large POS. Don't bother trying that now, you need at least 9 planets or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining.
Cost effective compared to what?
I fuel a med pos and t2 prod needs with 8 planets on L4 cc and 24hrs cycles (production planet included), in hisec. Considering robotics is up to 60k in jita, I'd say it's quite cost effective...
You need 1 reactive, 1 toxic, 2 precious, 1 chiral, 1 oxygen, 1 water and 1 electrolytes planets. And you'll be overproducing coolant, eu and oxygen. In losec, I'd probably be able to halve the number of planets, considering the much better yield - I used to have an avg of 2 basic processors per planet on lo-yield resources (working 24hrs) and 4-5 on hi-yield with the old system in hisec, and between 5 and 7 on lo yield in 0.2...
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Rene Winter
Militant Mermen LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
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Posted - 2011.01.27 17:05:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Euporie
Originally by: Gheeveetto Meyargen
Originally by: Mirac Factar mmmm I'm already making more profit than I was pre-patch because of the changes.
So yeah keep quitting PI everyone, I'll make more money when you all stop supplying and the prices rise.
Thanks CCP for the changes.
I find this attitude rather short sighted. Yes you may be able to take advantage of the problems, and more profit for you, great!!
But it is clearly borked.
Do you want more borking in the pursuit of profits?
OK. Lets nerf missiles by 10,000%, you now need thousands of them to kill the smallest of ships! Great profit for missile makers - sure, but clearly a game destroying bork all the same. And not so great for ship makers btw. Why stop there, bork everything, there is always profits to be had in any and every situation!
Totally agree. If people are going to make more money with the new PI they wouldn't complain at all. Users complain that the balance is broken, not to mention the number of options you had with the old PI. If you want to do less work, you could make P2 and P3 on single planet and you would make less money out of it. If you do it as profession you know how to get the best out of your skills, and run a short 5h cycles. With the new patch you can't do P3 on single planet and the P2 chain is totally broken. The users that used to do 5h cycles are totally screwed...
Just my humble opinion but they really just made it take more work to operate PI despite it being more "interesting" work. How interesting will it be after the 300th time you do it? If I have a frustration is that I now will spend a bit more of my time every day playing space Farmville for POS fuels instead of Flying Internet Spaceships which is really the whole point of the game anyway.
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Ardamalis
Caldari A Third Betrayal Circle of the Shadows
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Posted - 2011.01.28 07:26:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Ardamalis on 28/01/2011 07:27:28 Edited by: Ardamalis on 28/01/2011 07:27:01 I find the psychology of this to be quite interesting.
CCP introduces a new source of passive income.
CCP changes said source of income so that some people produce less.
People QQ because they no longer have icing with their free cake.
If you don't like PI then don't do it. As if not doing PI is going to make you earn less than before Tyrannus was introduced .
I for one enjoy the new changes. Adapt or die. |
Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.28 07:40:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Shakon on 28/01/2011 07:41:10 You enjoy the changes because your not doing it. Typical bot user or you where so stupid you couldnt figure out the old way.
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Ardamalis
Caldari A Third Betrayal Circle of the Shadows
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Posted - 2011.01.28 07:48:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Shakon Edited by: Shakon on 28/01/2011 07:41:10 You enjoy the changes because your not doing it. Typical bot user or you where so stupid you couldnt figure out the old way.
Quite the contrary I ran colonies on planets in 0.0 under the old system. I can post screenies of my old colonies if you absolutely demand proof. |
lushn
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Posted - 2011.01.28 08:03:00 -
[110]
I think all these "adapt or die guys" ccp alts. Otherwise why person come here and leave post , even he has no problem with system and perfectly adapted. Maybe ego to show how wonderfull themselves |
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lushn
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Posted - 2011.01.28 08:05:00 -
[111]
Ohh I forgot. aLso "if you complain then you are a bot" guys
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BeefBoy
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Posted - 2011.01.28 09:40:00 -
[112]
Edited by: BeefBoy on 28/01/2011 09:44:18 Ok i come here lookign for complaints as i too felt that CCP has really let us PI guys down but after carful reading and consideration i think the change is good in only 1 resepect, it stops macros and complete passive incomes.
My experiences are all from 0.0 planets so i dont know if its true for hisec or lowsec.
1. yes before clickest was so painful but we did it anyway, we could sit on the same spot extracting day after day week after week raking in the ISK, a freighter filled every week and shipped to Jita for profits.
2. yes CCP have really sold the new PI as being a more user friendly experience, was we miss sold a product which has changed from click fest to drag fest, i think so but again this does make macroing and total passive incomers lives hard to sit on the same hot spots.
3. all in all CCP should have been clearer about this update, whilst the first scan looks good you soon realise after 24/48 hours your colony needs moving on a regular 24/48 hour period and when it took me 30minutes to setup each of my colonies with routes and links and upgrades and everythign else we have to do to get a workign colony i just think im gonna sit on this one spot and wait it out. 30minutes multiplied by my 30 planets = 15 hours of painful and pointless dargging of extraction heads or rebuilding the complete colony on a hot spot again.
great new interface CCP but seriously stop the spots from depleting so quickly or allow me to pick up my entire colony and drop it somewhere else without having to keep rebuiliding it all which it boring.
Also i get why havign spots deplete is good for hisec as there is compition and hot spots will keep poppign up all over so no one can claim all thehot spots and sit on them for ever. But think about it im in 0.0 im pretty much the only guy in my system, there is no competition yet still i have to still move all my colonoy every 1-2 days to stay on a good spot of extraction. booooo!!! hooooo!! CCP some good fixes but also some bad changes.
EDIT : those guys thinking this patch will balance out prices of materials are wrong.... All teh passive income PI players will ditch this in 1-2 months cos its boring for them to keep moving heads aroudn every 2 days. There is going to be less macros working this new PI system so less supply is going to make prices higher. I suppose a good thing for those who do spend the time doing it th eway it was designed to be doen which was a career choice liek minign or pvp or pve, PI was something you want to do in EVE and those who think they can just sit there doign sweet FA and rake in extremly high passive amounts of ISK are in for a shock lol. I knwo i thought i could do the same but i guessed wrong
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.01.28 10:11:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Disteeler Seems like people just wanted a 1 click profit system :l
Yep. I'm producing more than before, and with less effort. Reading all these posts complaining about more work and less materials for the effort makes me wonder how badly these lot must be failing at PI to be this screwed by the update. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
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Chelone
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.01.28 13:46:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Yep. I'm producing more than before, and with less effort.
Before the patch you must have been doing PI blindfolded, using your feet.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2011.01.28 14:05:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Yep. I'm producing more than before, and with less effort.
Before the patch you must have been doing PI blindfolded, using your feet.
No but I imagine you still are. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
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Quartermaster General
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Posted - 2011.01.29 02:32:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Lyman Alpha
Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest
-3 for screwing it up everything else.
-7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors.
-10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
Agree.
----------------------------------- I as well!!!
Why reinvent the wheel? All you had to do is work on the click fest. Instead of a better wheel, we got a square wheel! I rather have the click fest!!
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Chelone
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.01.29 03:35:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Yep. I'm producing more than before, and with less effort.
Before the patch you must have been doing PI blindfolded, using your feet.
No but I imagine you still are.
Well I based it on the fact that you clearly were blindfolded when you made your ugly portrait.
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Onibrak
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Posted - 2011.01.29 06:19:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Onibrak on 29/01/2011 06:22:16
Originally by: Mirac Factar mmmm I'm already making more profit than I was pre-patch because of the changes.
So yeah keep quitting PI everyone, I'll make more money when you all stop supplying and the prices rise.
Thanks CCP for the changes.
You are ******ed.
Pre patch I was pulling about 1.5m p0 per day with 3 5 hour cycles a day.
Now I'm pulling about 1.2m p0 per day with constant 12 hour cycles running. That's just the extraction problems. It gets worse when you factor in depletion. I've had to rebuild colonies and sacrifice an extractor head and a processor in order to afford an upgraded link big enough to allow me to cover multiple concentrations of a single p0 and move the ECU on every planet I have a CC.
Even doing that, on my planets I've pretty much I drained the biggest hot spots from all white to mostly orange. I moved the ECUs three days ago, and the area is still almost entirely orange with no white in sight and me mining an area a fifth of the way around the planet.
I can't even set up a colony on any planet bigger than about 4000km radius because I start sacrificing more processors and heads just to be able to afford to move the ECU around without having to destroy my colony about once a week to maintain production. I used to be able to run 10 processors pretty much around the clock, now I can't support 9 processors for more than three or four days before one or two start going hungry as the area I'm extracting drains.
My overall production of p2 POS fuels is down about 30% on every character after rebuilding every single planet I had to put the colony somewhere with the largest available concentration.
The new PI sucks ass compared to the old one.
If you're making more money now it's because you didn't know **** about PI in the first place and screwed up your colony pretty badly.
Depletion sucks major ass, it's the biggest problem we've got. It sucks when I can pull out better than the old numbers for one or two cycles and then it drops down to somewhere between two thirds to one half of former production for the rest of the cycle. And the holes I've dug are not refilling.
CCP needs to release some hard math on depletion, because even if it's "working as intended" it ****ing sucks.
Also, outside the realm of profits, the change is hurting actual production in my neck of the woods. POS maintenance is harder with shorter supplies, we've got half the sell orders locally that we used to because whatever gets put up at a decent price is gone ten seconds later and more is needed. Production of other stuff is slowing down because needed materials are flowing in at a shorter pace making other stuff spike or simply not be available.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.01.29 06:59:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Onibrak You are ******ed.
Pre patch I was pulling about 1.5m p0 per day with 3 5 hour cycles a day.
******ed is doing PI extraction in high-sec...
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Palpatine III
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.29 07:12:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Palpatine III on 29/01/2011 07:12:31
Originally by: Onibrak Edited by: Onibrak on 29/01/2011 06:22:16
Originally by: Mirac Factar mmmm I'm already making more profit than I was pre-patch because of the changes.
So yeah keep quitting PI everyone, I'll make more money when you all stop supplying and the prices rise.
Thanks CCP for the changes.
You are ******ed.
Pre patch I was pulling about 1.5m p0 per day with 3 5 hour cycles a day.
Now I'm pulling about 1.2m p0 per day with constant 12 hour cycles running. That's just the extraction problems. It gets worse when you factor in depletion. I've had to rebuild colonies and sacrifice an extractor head and a processor in order to afford an upgraded link big enough to allow me to cover multiple concentrations of a single p0 and move the ECU on every planet I have a CC.
Even doing that, on my planets I've pretty much I drained the biggest hot spots from all white to mostly orange. I moved the ECUs three days ago, and the area is still almost entirely orange with no white in sight and me mining an area a fifth of the way around the planet.
I can't even set up a colony on any planet bigger than about 4000km radius because I start sacrificing more processors and heads just to be able to afford to move the ECU around without having to destroy my colony about once a week to maintain production. I used to be able to run 10 processors pretty much around the clock, now I can't support 9 processors for more than three or four days before one or two start going hungry as the area I'm extracting drains.
My overall production of p2 POS fuels is down about 30% on every character after rebuilding every single planet I had to put the colony somewhere with the largest available concentration.
The new PI sucks ass compared to the old one.
If you're making more money now it's because you didn't know **** about PI in the first place and screwed up your colony pretty badly.
Depletion sucks major ass, it's the biggest problem we've got. It sucks when I can pull out better than the old numbers for one or two cycles and then it drops down to somewhere between two thirds to one half of former production for the rest of the cycle. And the holes I've dug are not refilling.
CCP needs to release some hard math on depletion, because even if it's "working as intended" it ****ing sucks.
Also, outside the realm of profits, the change is hurting actual production in my neck of the woods. POS maintenance is harder with shorter supplies, we've got half the sell orders locally that we used to because whatever gets put up at a decent price is gone ten seconds later and more is needed. Production of other stuff is slowing down because needed materials are flowing in at a shorter pace making other stuff spike or simply not be available.
That's about what I'm seeing too. I think the people who are liking the new PI are the high-sec noobs who really don't have a clue about mass PI production.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.29 19:35:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Onibrak on 29/01/2011 19:45:24 Edited by: Onibrak on 29/01/2011 19:44:16
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Onibrak You are ******ed.
Pre patch I was pulling about 1.5m p0 per day with 3 5 hour cycles a day.
******ed is doing PI extraction in high-sec...
I live in 0.0, if that was directed at me.
To give you an idea of former numbers, running 10 basics takes about 1.44 million p0 to keep them going for 24 hours. Running 3 daily 5 hour cycles with the previous PI incarnation would give me a buffer of somewhere around 100-150k at the end of 24 hours as the last cycle on the processors completes. If I ran 4 because it was a weekend that was pure buffer into the launch pad.
I am currently having trouble feeding 8 processors, which takes a much smaller 1.1m to feed, and my buffer pad is been and is staying entirely empty.
The devs have stated they wanted to keep extraction rates mostly the same. They have failed utterly, even when there is no competition for resources because you're in the back of beyond Deklein systems where there are maybe six other goons using the same planets I am at most, and not all of them are extracting the same stuff I am. I checked today, there are no other structures on any of the planets I use but mine within the areas I use to extract, and based on scan data some of the others on my planets aren't pulling out the same things I am, as they're sitting directly on large concentrations of other resources.
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NenYim
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Posted - 2011.01.30 00:23:00 -
[122]
im just after some figgers, i was running around 600m isk per mounth with my old PI setup, just making POS fuel, im yet 2 set up again due 2 other facter's so i cant say how much im making now isk wise but id like 2 know what u guys where doing be4 and after the patch per month isk wise, how much income have u lost due 2 the change's, also, i didnt like the click fest that happend be4 the patch, by the sounds of it, its still a click fest, :(
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.30 01:18:00 -
[123]
Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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lushn
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Posted - 2011.01.30 01:32:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort.
I wonder Why some guys throwing crap around if other tells they cant make same isk with new PI system ? Ist the purpose of game makin isk? whats the measure of effort? if someone doing more isk than you with less effort should be? should we set standard as your effort?
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Argonaught
Minmatar Cabbage Tea
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Posted - 2011.01.30 02:19:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Argonaught on 30/01/2011 02:19:23
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort.
Thats a load of arse, I'm the only one on my planet that has bothered to update their PI so noone else is sucking up any materials however I'm way down in extraction rates and production.
Before I had 2x4 extractors, 2x4 basic processors and 4 advanced.
after I have 2x2 ECU running 5 head each, 2x3 basic processors and 3 advanced the extraction rates can barely keep up with the 3 basics.
No tell me How is it I can make the same when extraction is way way down?
I firmly believe the ones making more stuff are the ones who only do P0 or maybe P1 but not P2, so stop spouting arse ffs it's all a loss in PI and I've lost a fair few mill already in deleting and resetting up the stupid ECU's to try and get the same numbers but it just won't happen.
Also depletion rates are ****ing all setups up.
So stick up your arse and see if the new ECU can extract it.
------------------------------------------------ Coming soon or never.sig |
Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.30 03:23:00 -
[126]
Argonaught, consider yourself lucky. I'm looking at 5 planets with blue hotspots. One of them does have a green spot though. The new PI is a huge pain in the ass no doubt but what choice is there now. CCP killed the NPC market for PI items and then killed the planet resources so we HAVE to spend all our time in PI. And now, my planets are nearly dead. Production has almost stopped.
I don't often ***** about things, i'm optomistic by nature, but when i wind up playing PI when i should be playing EvE, it's time to *****.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 04:00:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort.
Why don't you go back to your ****cage in 6vdt where you belong, pubbie. Intelligent people are trying to talk.
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Argonaught
Minmatar Cabbage Tea
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Posted - 2011.01.30 04:12:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Argonaught on 30/01/2011 04:12:47 Sokrates, I have the same issues with blue showing up where a red spot used to be the night before and I'm in a .1 system :(
I'm just really annoyed at ccp devs atm as I was one of the many who did check out PI on test server and gave feedback and the Devs ignored it and everyone elses concerns before it went live.
And whats making me more unhappy is the fact the devs seem to think it's all hunky dory.
Ah well, time to stop shouting since CCP ain't listening.
Argo.
------------------------------------------------ Coming soon or never.sig |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.30 04:47:00 -
[129]
With level 4 CC, I'm averaging 9-10 processors + ECU + spaceport, and using 23:45 cycles. I estimate with just the extra processors I've added, I'm getting 20% more P1.
I used to do two 5 hour cycles per day, often only one, and sometimes 3 or 4. Being able to restart a program is keeping my colony running at max capacity around the clock. I'm extracting a lot more as a result.
I was already using factory planets, so no difference there for me. Well, now I am starting to wonder about transporting so much more, as I'm in a C5.
Overall though, new PI definitely was an improvement for me.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.30 06:11:00 -
[130]
9-10 per planet?! You play EvE Online right?
I have 7 heads on one of my ECU's. I'm drawing 4152 P0 per hour on a 10 hour cycle. Thats on a hotspot i prospected for 45 minutes finding the best spot in the area. How the heck do you get 9-10 processors on one planet!?
I've destroyed a number of facilities and moved to new planets over and over. Which means i've spent more just rebuilding planets than i would have if i had gone and bought the PI from the market. All of them are dead with the exception of a few that last 2 or 3 days and then are just as dead.
I hate to say this Tau, your either a liar or insanely lucky. Still, 7 heads and 4k P0 is BS and it continues to get worse. Linkage
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 09:51:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
I used to do two 5 hour cycles per day, often only one, and sometimes 3 or 4. Being able to restart a program is keeping my colony running at max capacity around the clock. I'm extracting a lot more as a result.
Bolded the important part. You didn't do serious PI before. Two cycles on a 0.0 planet with 10 processors won't feed 10 basic production for 24 hours. With excellent placement 3 5 hour cycles barely covered 24 hours of operation on 10 processors, and that was when depletion wasn't a factor.
"I'm making 20% more" doesn't say much when you're making more because you weren't min/maxing what PI can do on a single P1 planet.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 10:03:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 10:03:22
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus 9-10 per planet?! You play EvE Online right?
I have 7 heads on one of my ECU's. I'm drawing 4152 P0 per hour on a 10 hour cycle. Thats on a hotspot i prospected for 45 minutes finding the best spot in the area. How the heck do you get 9-10 processors on one planet!?
I am running 7 P1 Processors per planet on my 0.1 and 0.2 planets, so assuming you are in nullsec, its perfectly doable.
Also, 7 heads on one hotspot is a bad idea, it will run dry very fast, and you will find yourself having to cut down on production. The best thing is to try and place yourself in an area with multiple spots (of course) so that you can spread the ECU heads around. Personally anything more than 2 heads (maybe 3) per spot makes me uncomfortable.
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus
I've destroyed a number of facilities and moved to new planets over and over. Which means i've spent more just rebuilding planets than i would have if i had gone and bought the PI from the market. All of them are dead with the exception of a few that last 2 or 3 days and then are just as dead.
Again, did you place all your extraction around a single hotspot? That is most likely why you are having problems with it - try experimenting a bit with moving your stuff around, look at where other players have their ECUs and avoid them, and try to bring up your Planetology skills. I promise, after some experimentation and aha-experiences, you will find it more profitable.
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus
I hate to say this Tau, your either a liar or insanely lucky. Still, 7 heads and 4k P0 is BS and it continues to get worse.
It is not, I find I can pull close to 50k at times in lowsec using 7 heads minimum. It all depends on the planet, your skills, and your setup.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.30 11:09:00 -
[133]
No i'm in high sec so avoiding other networks is a problem. Still, i'll take your advice and try to find a planet where i'll have a few spots under one ECU, it's time to move again anyway. I will set up a 4 or 5 day program because im curious if it will drop to nothing as the spot drains in a day or if it will continue to produce what the program origionally predicted. Would be interesting to see my ECU producing 12k an hr over an area thats been picked clean for 2 days.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 11:17:00 -
[134]
If you are in hisec, that should explain a lot. I have never done PI there myself, but from what I have seen, hisec planets are downright horrible - terrible resource concentrations, and I dont think it is unfair to assume that they are rather overpopulated (hence many people draining the same hotspots etc).
If you are serious about PI, get setup in 0.1, or at most, 0.2 space. It is less risky than you think. The only real problematic part is logistics, which can still be handled relatively safely if you just have a Transport ship.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.30 11:47:00 -
[135]
Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 13:22:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 13:40:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:42:02
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots.
How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else. Hotspots disappear and do not come back. Often in less than a few hours time. Eventually, your entire setup is left in a "dead zone" with NO resources of ANY TYPE within ECU range. Moving is the ONLY option.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 13:45:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:40:11
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots.
How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else.
*sigh* So I need to be a dev in order to do PI efficiently (ergo, correctly)?
The new systems extraction is based around the "depth" and deplete/replenish functions of hotspots on planets. The key is not simply to find good hotspots, but also try and balance you extraction in such a way that you can get good, stable yields (if you deplete it too fast, you will get initial high yields, but after a few days or so, you will be biting the dust as you find yourself extracting less than half of what you initially were able to). Thus, if you do it right, you will be able to run at optimal capacity per planet. There is really not too much else to it that I am aware of. You might want to check the dev blogs on the topic as well if I missed anything.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 13:49:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:40:11
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots.
How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else.
*sigh* So I need to be a dev in order to do PI efficiently (ergo, correctly)?
The new systems extraction is based around the "depth" and deplete/replenish functions of hotspots on planets. The key is not simply to find good hotspots, but also try and balance you extraction in such a way that you can get good, stable yields (if you deplete it too fast, you will get initial high yields, but after a few days or so, you will be biting the dust as you find yourself extracting less than half of what you initially were able to). Thus, if you do it right, you will be able to run at optimal capacity per planet. There is really not too much else to it that I am aware of. You might want to check the dev blogs on the topic as well if I missed anything.
yeah you missed something. try reading rest of my post.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 13:59:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:03:50
Originally by: Lord Jita
yeah you missed something. try reading rest of my post.
Please, not so hostile! You finished your edit when I was writing a reply to your first posting (which was just "How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else"), and so I did not see it until now.
Either way, to answer the rest of your post:
Originally by: Lord Jita Hotspots disappear and do not come back. Often in less than a few hours time.
This is not true, the dev blog makes it clear that hotspots are like "buckets", they fill up again over time, hence you need to find the equilibrium.
See: Devblog on PI From the blog:
Quote: Depleted resources regenerate so moving extractor heads off a hotspot will allow it to grow back. It is also possible to achieve equilibrium with the resource by extracting at the same pace as it regenerates - this is achievable only by carefully tuning and monitoring the hot spot you are on to make sure it doesn't lose strength.
Originally by: Lord Jita Eventually, your entire setup is left in a "dead zone" with NO resources of ANY TYPE within ECU range. Moving is the ONLY option.
Again, not correct, for the reason above.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:05:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:03:50
Originally by: Lord Jita
yeah you missed something. try reading rest of my post.
Please, not so hostile! You finished your edit when I was writing a reply to your first posting (which was just "How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else"), and so I did not see it until now.
Either way, to answer the rest of your post:
Originally by: Lord Jita Hotspots disappear and do not come back. Often in less than a few hours time.
This is not true, the dev blog makes it clear that hotspots are like "buckets", they fill up again over time, hence you need to find the equilibrium.
See: Devblog on PI From the blog:
Quote: Depleted resources regenerate so moving extractor heads off a hotspot will allow it to grow back. It is also possible to achieve equilibrium with the resource by extracting at the same pace as it regenerates - this is achievable only by carefully tuning and monitoring the hot spot you are on to make sure it doesn't lose strength.
Originally by: Lord Jita Eventually, your entire setup is left in a "dead zone" with NO resources of ANY TYPE within ECU range. Moving is the ONLY option.
Again, not correct, for the reason above.
Yeah OK I am lying. you are a tool.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:06:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Lord Jita
Yeah OK I am lying. you are a tool.
I really don't see the need for your attitude. You are not lying, you simply assumed something about PI that was wrong, and I pointed it out to you. There is nothing wrong with that, we live and learn.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:08:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita
Yeah OK I am lying. you are a tool.
I really don't see the need for your attitude. You are not lying, you simply assumed something about PI that was wrong, and I pointed it out to you. There is nothing wrong with that, we live and learn.
I just told you what my experience has been, yet you say I am not "correct." You are indirectly calling me a liar. In response I am calling you a god damn idiot. How do you like to be called a liar? And you wonder why I have an attitude with you? How about you stop saying people are not telling the truth? You are internet garbage.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:14:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:14:55
Originally by: Lord Jita
I just told you what my experience has been, yet you say I am not "correct." You are indirectly calling me a liar. In response I am calling you a god damn idiot. How do you like to be called a liar? And you wonder why I have an attitude with you? How about you stop saying people are not telling the truth? You are internet garbage.
So if I correct somebody when he says "Mars is the third planet from the sun, as far as we know" (when actually Earth is the third, Mars the fourth), I am calling him a liar? This is not true at all - pointing out to someone that their thinking about something is not correct is not calling them liars, it is simply correcting someone, a perfectly polite and normal thing that happens everywhere.
Calling somebody a liar would be if they know better, but yet try to make others believe something they themselves know is not true. You did not know PI worked like this, you simply thought it worked otherwise, and said accordingly. Thus, you are of course not a liar, and neither am I accusing you of being one.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:16:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:14:55
Originally by: Lord Jita
I just told you what my experience has been, yet you say I am not "correct." You are indirectly calling me a liar. In response I am calling you a god damn idiot. How do you like to be called a liar? And you wonder why I have an attitude with you? How about you stop saying people are not telling the truth? You are internet garbage.
So if I correct somebody when he says "Mars is the third planet from the sun, as far as we know" (when actually Earth is the third, Mars the fourth), I am calling him a liar? This is not true at all - pointing out to someone that their thinking about something is not correct is not calling them liars, it is simply correcting someone, a perfectly polite and normal thing that happens everywhere.
Calling somebody a liar would be if they know better, but yet try to make others believe something they themselves know is not true. You did not know PI worked like this, you simply thought it worked otherwise, and said accordingly. Thus, you are of course not a liar, and neither am I accusing you of being one.
You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:18:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Lord Jita
You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it.
What is it that I don't know?
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:18:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita
You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it.
What is it that I don't know?
You don't know how bad at posting you are for one.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:20:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Lord Jita
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita
You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it.
What is it that I don't know?
You don't know how bad at posting you are for one.
So what is wrong with my posts?
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:20:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita
You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it.
What is it that I don't know?
You don't know how bad at posting you are for one.
So what is wrong with my posts?
They're pretty terrible. Boring, misinformed, low entertainment value. You should probably just stop making them.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:25:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Lord Jita
They're pretty terrible. Boring, misinformed, low entertainment value. You should probably just stop making them.
So what is misinf...gah...
/me decides to stop feeding the troll
Have a nice day.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:28:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita
They're pretty terrible. Boring, misinformed, low entertainment value. You should probably just stop making them.
So what is misinf...gah...
/me decides to stop feeding the troll
Have a nice day.
Close the browser, and walk away from the computer.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:31:00 -
[152]
I'm afraid i have to agree here with Lord Jita. Flames aside (from both of you) he's right. Hotspots vanish like used car salesmen from Mexico. The only reason your able to find a balance is because your in low sec with little competition. Now it's easy to say 'ok you lousy carebear, come out here and do PI' but how many corps are going to allow carebears to plunder thier planets and scurry off in thier industrials packed full of POS fuels and other items? Not alot, 1 word in corp chat and 15 bubbles pop up. So while i appreciated your suggestion to do PI in low sec, i didnt find it very realistic. High sec PI is a whole new game, there is savage competition and to make matters worse high sec planets have less to start with (or so i've read).
4k P0 from 7 heads on the best spot in the planet, thats high sec PI, you balance it ok?
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:35:00 -
[153]
Yes leave the keyboard cause he is lieing.
I am in low sec and hot spots ARE not refilling.
I ran thru 5 first day and they have YET to refill i left the set up there just to watch.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:44:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus I'm afraid i have to agree here with Lord Jita. Flames aside (from both of you) he's right. Hotspots vanish like used car salesmen from Mexico. The only reason your able to find a balance is because your in low sec with little competition. Now it's easy to say 'ok you lousy carebear, come out here and do PI' but how many corps are going to allow carebears to plunder thier planets and scurry off in thier industrials packed full of POS fuels and other items? Not alot, 1 word in corp chat and 15 bubbles pop up. So while i appreciated your suggestion to do PI in low sec, i didnt find it very realistic. High sec PI is a whole new game, there is savage competition and to make matters worse high sec planets have less to start with (or so i've read).
4k P0 from 7 heads on the best spot in the planet, thats high sec PI, you balance it ok?
I am of course not calling you a lousy carebear. I am an unapologetic carebear myself.
I was talking about lowsec PI (which is what I am doing at the moment), I believe you mistook it for nullsec. There are no bubbles in lowsec, and as a case study, I keep my planets in a pipe system frequented by a handful of pirate corps. It is still very safe to get things done, I would be happy to help with any pointers.
As for the refilling of hotspots - I can only go from what the devs themselves say (see devblog on PI changes). If you are sure your hotspots are not replenishing, you might want to consider a bug report - it is not supposed to work like that (this is an answer to the poster above me as well).
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 14:48:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus I'm afraid i have to agree here with Lord Jita. Flames aside (from both of you) he's right. Hotspots vanish like used car salesmen from Mexico. The only reason your able to find a balance is because your in low sec with little competition. Now it's easy to say 'ok you lousy carebear, come out here and do PI' but how many corps are going to allow carebears to plunder thier planets and scurry off in thier industrials packed full of POS fuels and other items? Not alot, 1 word in corp chat and 15 bubbles pop up. So while i appreciated your suggestion to do PI in low sec, i didnt find it very realistic. High sec PI is a whole new game, there is savage competition and to make matters worse high sec planets have less to start with (or so i've read).
4k P0 from 7 heads on the best spot in the planet, thats high sec PI, you balance it ok?
I am of course not calling you a lousy carebear. I am an unapologetic carebear myself.
I was talking about lowsec PI (which is what I am doing at the moment), I believe you mistook it for nullsec. There are no bubbles in lowsec, and as a case study, I keep my planets in a pipe system frequented by a handful of pirate corps. It is still very safe to get things done, I would be happy to help with any pointers.
As for the refilling of hotspots - I can only go from what the devs themselves say (see devblog on PI changes). If you are sure your hotspots are not replenishing, you might want to consider a bug report - it is not supposed to work like that (this is an answer to the poster above me as well).
EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE DAMN DEVBLOG SAYS -- EVERYONES READ IT. EVERYONES PAST THE DEV BLOG. We are saying IT IS NOT WORKING LIKE IT STATES. Hence this thread, discussing the problem. So stop quoting it, linking it, and circling back to it like a broken record. Get it through your skull already.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 15:09:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 15:09:29
Originally by: Lord Jita
EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE DAMN DEVBLOG SAYS -- EVERYONES READ IT. EVERYONES PAST THE DEV BLOG. We are saying IT IS NOT WORKING LIKE IT STATES. Hence this thread, discussing the problem. So stop quoting it, linking it, and circling back to it like a broken record. Get it through your skull already.
This entire thread has been (and is) around the pros and cons (of course, with a clear initial and overall focus on the cons - people talking about the pro came along later) of the new PI system - not that it does not work as intended in the devblogs. The bugs on the survey screen have been corrected, and what we are really waiting for is for CCP to give us some math on how hot spot refilling works numerically. There really is not much more to it.
If you are convinced the mechanics are not working as stated in your case, crying about it here will hardly help. File a bug report. I doubt you would be the first.
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Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.30 15:27:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 15:09:29
Originally by: Lord Jita
EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE DAMN DEVBLOG SAYS -- EVERYONES READ IT. EVERYONES PAST THE DEV BLOG. We are saying IT IS NOT WORKING LIKE IT STATES. Hence this thread, discussing the problem. So stop quoting it, linking it, and circling back to it like a broken record. Get it through your skull already.
This entire thread has been (and is) around the pros and cons (of course, with a clear initial and overall focus on the cons - people talking about the pro came along later) of the new PI system - not that it does not work as intended in the devblogs. The bugs on the survey screen have been corrected, and what we are really waiting for is for CCP to give us some math on how hot spot refilling works numerically. There really is not much more to it.
If you are convinced the mechanics are not working as stated in your case, crying about it here will hardly help. File a bug report. I doubt you would be the first.
I've never seen someone post so many words that say so little.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.30 16:38:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Lord Jita I've never seen someone post so many words that say so little.
Let me summarize for you.
- STFU
- If it's not working as you feel it's intended to: File a bug report and STFU
I'm glad I could be of service in clarifying this for you. Have a nice day.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 17:00:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Onibrak on 30/01/2011 17:03:06
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:40:11
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots.
How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else.
*sigh* So I need to be a dev in order to do PI efficiently (ergo, correctly)?
The new systems extraction is based around the "depth" and deplete/replenish functions of hotspots on planets. The key is not simply to find good hotspots, but also try and balance you extraction in such a way that you can get good, stable yields (if you deplete it too fast, you will get initial high yields, but after a few days or so, you will be biting the dust as you find yourself extracting less than half of what you initially were able to). Thus, if you do it right, you will be able to run at optimal capacity per planet. There is really not too much else to it that I am aware of. You might want to check the dev blogs on the topic as well if I missed anything.
No, you don't. You just need to be smarter than you.
You don't get it, you've missed the entire point. The devs said they wanted to leave extraction rates untouched. They did not do this. Yeah, I could run two ECUs with three heads each on two different hotspots, have the level three links to support that (god forbid on a Gas planet with a huge radius) and run like four or five basic processors per planet and have ****ty income. That's half or less of the pre patch production. That is a huge nerf, which is NOT what the changes to PI were supposed to be.
The point is that equilibrium pulls out probably an average of 600k to 800k p0 per day, if that, and I used to be able to pull a little over 1.5 million every day without running extractors 24/7. That's a huge goddamn nerf, and nerfing was not the stated intention at any point.
The point is that the test server feedback thread was full of the same **** that we're saying here for a month before this went live with no dev response since December 26.
The new interface kicks ass. The new mechanics which were not asked for are not. There is not one single serious PI player who would not trade all the new changes for the old system with a single "extractor restart" button. If you say the new system is better you're not doing PI well or seriously. That's a fact, it's like commenting on Titan balance when you fly a rifter.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 17:57:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 18:06:34
Originally by: Onibrak
No, you don't. You just need to be smarter than you.
Insult uncalled for, please, the topic of discussion (not the discussion of the thread proper) that I went in for above was effective extraction under the new system (and I know that was not the entire scope of discussion between those particular posters either - it was simply the one I picked to go for), nothing else. I agree with you that the new PI is broken.
Originally by: Onibrak
You don't get it, you've missed the entire point. The devs said they wanted to leave extraction rates untouched. They did not do this. Yeah, I could run two ECUs with three heads each on two different hotspots, have the level three links to support that (god forbid on a Gas planet with a huge radius) and run like four or five basic processors per planet and have ****ty income. That's half or less of the pre patch production. That is a huge nerf, which is NOT what the changes to PI were supposed to be.
Granted, but this was again not the discussion I was having with the the posters above. I agree with you that the nerf to PI is awful - you are not the only one losing profits, I have had to tear down, rebuild and slice production myself.
Originally by: Onibrak
The point is that equilibrium pulls out probably an average of 600k to 800k p0 per day, if that, and I used to be able to pull a little over 1.5 million every day without running extractors 24/7. That's a huge goddamn nerf, and nerfing was not the stated intention at any point.
Again, same for me, and I fully agree.
Originally by: Onibrak
There is not one single serious PI player who would not trade all the new changes for the old system with a single "extractor restart" button. If you say the new system is better you're not doing PI well or seriously. That's a fact, it's like commenting on Titan balance when you fly a rifter.
And as a serious PI player, I subscribe to this fully.
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Palpatine III
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.30 18:18:00 -
[161]
All you people doing PI in high/low sec need to STFU. You have no idea how to do it on a mass scale. Listen to Lord Jita and Onibrak. They know the numbers. My numbers say the same things.. This was known from testing on Sisi since last year, yet the Devs said nothing.. One can only assume they are either incompetent - quite possible - or they want it this way. Maybe they want POS fuels to skyrocket so people will hire dusters to take out the competition? Who knows..
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.30 18:23:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Palpatine III All you people doing PI in high/low sec need to STFU. You have no idea how to do it on a mass scale. Listen to Lord Jita and Onibrak. They know the numbers. My numbers say the same things.. This was known from testing on Sisi since last year, yet the Devs said nothing.. One can only assume they are either incompetent - quite possible - or they want it this way. Maybe they want POS fuels to skyrocket so people will hire dusters to take out the competition? Who knows..
I know the numbers, too, I was making over 700 mil per month with the old system, and could have gotten that much higher by moving it all to nullsec, of course. Calm down, I have not said that the new PI is not broken, it is. The discussion above concerned the mechanics around extraction and how to use it effectively (this, by the way, is broken, too). I for one want the old system back, without the clickfest. It worked fine as it was.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.31 02:29:00 -
[163]
On a side topic, I sent a petition off about a day and a half ago asking for an explanation of PI and depletion, and information about extraction "bug status" having to do with whatever that extractor bug, and haven't gotten a response. How long you think it'll take CCP to respond?
Furthering that thought, anyone got any ideas on how to get direct dev response to the issues? There aren't enough people doing serious PI at this point, I think, for this to be an issue they give an overly large amount of consideration. People posting in threads about 4k extraction cycles and such is evidence in that direction.
I'd like to raise attention, suggestions appreciated, I haven't dealt with CCP devs much at all or know their reputations among the playerbase. Haven't seen anyone known to pilots the way Ghostcrawler is known to everyone in WoW.
And one more question, I saw someone reference that CCP patched whatever extraction bug was present. Haven't found any notes which say what the bug was exactly or what the fix was. Has CCP given any information on this? Do they ever? Coming from WoW and City of Heroes I'm used to the math behind the game being entirely transparent from the company, and it seems to be the opposite in EVE.
Anyone think that enough attention from players could change that? I'm getting tired of second guessing numbers we can't see, I'd be willing to try to organize some noise to try to change that.
Basically, help me make CCP rue the day they included a browser in the game UI.
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Zkeletonwitch
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:08:00 -
[164]
Having been doing extraction on 0.1 planets, I can say Horizonist has no idea what he is talking about. Extraction rates are nowhere near old levels.
Even well spread out extractors still deplete resources stupidly fast, especially on gas planets. I nearly drained the entire southern hemisphere of ionic solutions on a gas planet just to see if I could (one which cited high concentrations too). Basically you are required to move entire operations routinely, which I have no patience for. Enjoy higher fuel costs.
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Larabiosa Dunbarrah
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:21:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Onibrak I haven't dealt with CCP devs much at all or know their reputations among the playerbase. Haven't seen anyone known to pilots the way Ghostcrawler is known to everyone in WoW.
That's because there aren't any devs in EVE with that unique combination of arrogance and stupidity.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:24:00 -
[166]
Hey Lara i raise you one who thinks all people in NPC corps are RMTERS. You do not read the blogs from CCP much do you.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:37:00 -
[167]
I have filed several petitions and in every case the dev, GM, whoever it was i spoke with, was patient, professional, helpful, went to length to explain things, and in general knew what the hell he was talking about. I've never played any game where customer service worked, except EvE.
With one exception. I filed a petition a few days ago because i thought i had a buggy POS structure, there was no answer so i can only assume they are overloaded. I've never waited more than 12 hours for a response to a petition so something is really wrong. CCP isnt a company that ignores thier user base, i've seen those companys and those games, believe me CCP isnt one of them. Bugs get fixed, it's not all about the bottom line and playablility and fun matters to them. Can't +1 enough.
They will get to your petition and the only way you'll come back saying they are morons/*******s/whatever is if you go in looking for a fight.
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Lord Hamilton1
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Posted - 2011.01.31 06:15:00 -
[168]
I totally agree with what Lord Jita has to say about the whole situation on Pi depletion and extraction rates. OK so a little bit about my current set up after the patch. I used to produce 1.2 bill worth of pos fuel a month with my character which has 5 @ 5 in planet skills and lives in 0.0, I bought about 250 mill of materials to continue the chain and buffer. Since the patch the only way I can see of making any isk now is extracting and processing ionic solutions and non-cs crystals into electrolytes and chiral structures(I have bought another PI toon to help with this and he has CC skill at 5 and Planetary consolidation at 5) I will have 12 planets with elite command centres, running a set up of 10 basic processors connected to one launchpad and my roaming ecu connected to another launchpad and can manage 10 pins with this set up and a bit of flexibility with links and upgrades, but I will still have to break down and rebuild the launchpad and ecu as hotspots move around the planets which eats more into my bottom line. So the idea is to produce the most expensive p1 products on the market and in theory I could produce 806,400 units per month of electrolytes and chiral structures with this set up. I would then sell on Jita market breakdown one planet set up a factory planet 2 or 3 systems out of jita and process to p2 products from the material I bought from the sell off of Electrolytes and chiral structures. Thing is there is no way i will be able to process at full capacity with depletion the way it is even on 24-36 hour cycles the planets I am using are getting hammered. So the figure of 806k p1 materials would really be in reality around about the 550k-600k mark which brings me to the point that's a bloody huge drop and that's the max you can make on p1 products with 6 planets and equates to about 300-450 mill per p1 material per planet per month. The trick is finding a niche buying the right materials with you electrolyte and chiral sell-off and processing them into a better profit margin. That's the only way I can see of making a decent profit now. Hope that helps you guys
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.31 07:29:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Horizonist on 31/01/2011 07:34:30
Originally by: Zkeletonwitch Having been doing extraction on 0.1 planets, I can say Horizonist has no idea what he is talking about. Extraction rates are nowhere near old levels.
Even well spread out extractors still deplete resources stupidly fast, especially on gas planets. I nearly drained the entire southern hemisphere of ionic solutions on a gas planet just to see if I could (one which cited high concentrations too). Basically you are required to move entire operations routinely, which I have no patience for. Enjoy higher fuel costs.
If you bothered to read my entire argument up until here, you would notice that I said no such thing. I stated clearly that I too have had to slice production heavily - again - I used to be able to fuel 24 P2 plants under the old system, averaging over 700 mil a month at local prices. Now, I am down to 18 P2 - 25% returns out the window. Chances are I will have to slice it even further.
What I explained to the poster in the beginning was that it is possible to get good yields under the new system, if you do it right. I never said that even these levels were anywhere near the old ones, because they are not.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.31 08:05:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Horizonist
What I explained to the poster in the beginning was that it is possible to get good yields under the new system, if you do it right. I never said that even these levels were anywhere near the old ones, because they are not.
'Good' compared to what? The OP was talking about origional levels compared to the new system. Everyone agrees production is down, including you, so how is the new PI good for production?
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.31 08:22:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Horizonist on 31/01/2011 08:25:11
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus
Originally by: Horizonist
What I explained to the poster in the beginning was that it is possible to get good yields under the new system, if you do it right. I never said that even these levels were anywhere near the old ones, because they are not.
'Good' compared to what? The OP was talking about origional levels compared to the new system. Everyone agrees production is down, including you, so how is the new PI good for production?
'Good' levels under the circumstances (which are terrible compared to what they used to be). If you look at the post you and me started on, you were asking how on earth somebody could get the output they were saying that they had, and I explained to you that it was indeed doable. I apologize that I did not make it clear immediately that even these levels are bad compared to what they used to be, and I should indeed have told you how much my own production has suffered over it.
The gist of what I was saying is simply that it is possible to get P0 yield that is still decent. Currently, following my own advice to you, I am extracting 40k/h over 7 heads on a gas planet, using 24h cycles. It does ammount to something, and is enough to barely feed 18 P2 plants in all. That is a blow in the belly compared to what I used to get, but it is still decent.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.31 09:19:00 -
[172]
It's a pity then that the only answer is to head out to low sec if you want to even come close to old levels in high sec. I knew low sec PI was better, even in the old system, whats suprising is how much less affected it is by the changes. Essentially what they have done is moved PI out of the reach of the majority of players and put it in low sec, while still nerfing it in low sec too. I could deal with an adjustment but totally killing it like this is overboard. Horizon, say what you will about low sec PI, the majority wont go out for it including me, and i've lived in null sec before. There is no reason i shouldnt have decient PI rates simply because i chose to play in empire.
I suppose if i wanted to rebuild whole planet systems every 3 days and make 50 jumps i could do pretty well for myself, but that is really too much work for one small piece of the game.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.01.31 09:19:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 31/01/2011 08:42:53
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus
Originally by: Horizonist
What I explained to the poster in the beginning was that it is possible to get good yields under the new system, if you do it right. I never said that even these levels were anywhere near the old ones, because they are not.
'Good' compared to what? The OP was talking about origional levels compared to the new system. Everyone agrees production is down, including you, so how is the new PI good for production?
Compared to the old, it is not, and I do not argue anything else. Still, with patience, planning and some careful work, it is still possible to make a decent profit from it, especially now that prices are on the rise due to the cut production. You will not make what you did before (I am down to around 500-550 from 700+), but until CCP fixes this mess, that is simply something we will have to settle for.
Taking they will fix the mess. And what if they don't, and leave PI in the broken state it is. It's not like that's something that didn't happen before...just look how long it took them to acknowledge the fiasco they did with fleet fights after Dominion...
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Quetazoid
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Posted - 2011.01.31 12:21:00 -
[174]
PI is not broken,
Just move to a lower'sec and avoid pirates.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.01.31 12:39:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Quetazoid PI is not broken,
Just move to a lower'sec and avoid pirates.
So you suggest that PI is only good for lowsec, and that's how it should be? Considering that the 0.0 risk is higher and so should the reward be... And have all that instead of just fixing it, and have player play where they want to play it...be it in high sec, low or null...
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Palpatine III
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:03:00 -
[176]
I encourage everyone who is not satisfied with PI, or wants more detailed information to post in the comments section of his latest Dev blog on PI.
Give CCP Omen a piece of your mind!
CCP Omen's PI Blog
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:12:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Horizonist on 31/01/2011 17:14:20
Originally by: Quetazoid PI is not broken,
Just move to a lower'sec and avoid pirates.
I began my PI in lowsec, I am still in lowsec, and extraction rates have gotten so bad that I would have to move to nullsec (which I will eventually, as things are) to get nearer to what I could do under the old system. PI is indeed broken. Big ups to CCP for the new interface which is awesome, but extraction and hotspot depletion are in dire need of an overlook.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:21:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Palpatine III I encourage everyone who is not satisfied with PI, or wants more detailed information to post in the comments section of his latest Dev blog on PI.
Give CCP Omen a piece of your mind!
CCP Omen's PI Blog
Quote: Depleted resources regenerate so moving extractor heads off a hotspot will allow it to grow back.
When will we get to see the actual figures behind it? It is possible to get equilibrium as it is, but it would really, really help to know exactly how heavy I can exploit a hotspot without driving it into the ground.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:59:00 -
[179]
Don't set your expectations about 0.0 too high, I live in 0.0 and can tell you that planets that were good before are now utterly useless. Just a warning so you don't have your expectations crushed too hard.
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Joseph Vacher
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Posted - 2011.01.31 19:24:00 -
[180]
Oh my word. I have six planets fully set up in low sec, and twice now when I've logged in I've gone to set them up under the new system...
Both times it's caused me to shut the game down, just close the client without even submitting what I was doing. I don't know what it is about the new system, but by Chr!st is it boring. Moving the stupid circles around, trying not to click one thing wrong so it bollixes the whole thing...yeah that's PI dead for me. It was never about the reward but at least it was interesting. The only way I'll ever revisit that toilet of an interface is if Dust 514 ever makes an appearance.
Yes yes, cry more etc. I just had to say it, you're the mug who read it.
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Tub Chil
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Posted - 2011.01.31 20:34:00 -
[181]
I'll try to shortly summarize my opinion on new PI
First impression was WTF! destroy perfectly set up planets? impression became worse when I noticed that my red hotspots were turning green. However I must say that yellowish spots with one ECU give about same raw ore that 11 extractors on red spot before.
PI isn't perfect spreadsheet game anymore. you have to realize that you may have to move ECU-s around the planet. not just heads, but control units. I had to decommission 2 planets entirely and set everything up again. before I was picking the hottest spot and extracting there, now I try to place launcher and processors between hotspots, so that when one is depleted I can move ECu to another one.
This is bad for big radius planets, because upgraded link becomes an issue for cc PG capacity.
however on my planets now I extract so much that can't really reprocess it.
overall PI is more profitable for me especially with crazy prices that we have now
PS it's true that guys, who were extracting several kind or materials on one planet are ****ed now. but I always found specializing on one resource more efficient.
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2011.01.31 20:54:00 -
[182]
I run an 11 planet setup in high sec (0.5), elite CC's. I'm basically fueling my little research POS and making isk on rocket fuel. At first, it looked like production was up, but now I too am playing chase the hotspot, and production is down. I can confirm only one case where a hotspot came back (gas planet) after some time.
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Moraurah
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Posted - 2011.01.31 21:31:00 -
[183]
PI always been a very bad and boring design, I was only doing it to feed my corpo POSes. But now I have to give up, I don't have the time to rebuild everything again and again. I'm shutting down everything. No more BPOs research and copy... does'nt worth it. If you don't do PI, how can you really afford a few POS?
It's really not just about PI, it's f***ing up a large part of the economy All this because of one boring feature, very funny.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.02.01 03:25:00 -
[184]
I think encouraging colonies to specialize instead of being able to make complete POS fuel production chains on just a few planets is a good thing.
It boggles my mind how people find a way to complain about every single change, no matter how good it is.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Chelone
Outside The Asylum
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Posted - 2011.02.01 05:12:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Chelone on 01/02/2011 05:13:37
Originally by: Tub Chil however on my planets now I extract so much that can't really reprocess it.
overall PI is more profitable for me especially with crazy prices that we have now
I'm extracting less and somehow the price for mine went down slightly. However, I figured the ultimate solution to all the PI problems.
Ready? ...
Stop caring.
*** But one thing I do care about, mainly as an academic point, is something that was mentioned earlier. Someone claimed you could see other people's ECU's. How can you do that?? I'm assuming they're just wrong.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.01 05:27:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Kyra Felann I think encouraging colonies to specialize instead of being able to make complete POS fuel production chains on just a few planets is a good thing.
It boggles my mind how people find a way to complain about every single change, no matter how good it is.
Well it looks like it's not good? CCP has track record of braking their own game, multiple times...
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.02.01 05:36:00 -
[187]
I'm not sure i can turn a profit on pi in hisec.
the day after incursions came out, i set up four planets to work together to produce three of the four pos fuels, and they did fine for the first week, with the rewards steadily decreasing as the extractors depleted their hotspots.
today, i got fed up with it and ripped out the whole works and reinstalled it on the new hotspots. I've earned about 4-5 million from the fuels, but it cost me about 10 mil each time i rework my system in order to keep up with the moving hotspots.
I'd rather have a profitable clickfest than an easy way to burn isk. and no, i am not going to set up in low/null/wh space, because i can't defend any investments i place out there and all my r/d agents are in hisec.
a rant on those too, i had access to all of core complexion's r/d agents with a 4.50 standing with connections, and then after incursion, not only do they up the standings required to 6.50, they change the kind of datacores i need to make ships and drones from molecular engineering to mechanical engineering, making two weeks of training worthless to what i planned on doing.
and another off topic rant, the incursion at obray almost lost me my hulk as i tried to run a manufacturing agent's mission there and the spikey freaks crashed the party. after that, i burned two cruisers trying to rid the system of them before i got fed up with incompetent fleets and just logged off for the weekend. i still havent even looked at concord's lp store because, due to the way that rewards are divied out, i got nothing from any of the four sites i contributed to, either because i was in a pod at the end of it, or because the fleet was too big.
CCP, i know you didnt have me in particular in mind when you put out incursion, but it sure feels like i'm getting personal attention.
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.02.01 06:28:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Jaik7 on 01/02/2011 06:44:25 just finished reading all the preceding posts.
sounds like a lot of people are just trading crap such as "go back to wow" or "i can't adapt"
I've run numbers, and unless as you guys say the prices for pos fuels breaks through the ceiling, i literally will not be able to keep these colonies online, simply because it takes more isk to chase hotspots than i can get out of the planets when i take my goods to market.
the people who talk about higher yeilds, please come back a week from now and tell us how you feel about dropping about a million isk chasing a hotspot.
hisec pi is dead. until i see something change, i'm going to let my ECUs sit where they are no matter how cold the "hotspot" gets.
I feel bad for all the startup corps who are in my corp's postion. before, our plan to online our hisec research pos was going to occur within three days. now i'm expecting months of delays as i try to organize my corpies so that we can make enough to fuel this thing.
I think that CCP cares about the fans more than some of you think. I'm fairly sure that they did not just throw this out there with no plan for it except to make people shut up about the clickfest. is it too much to post a devblog explaining what the general idea was, so that we can better adjust?
In order for my hisec PI to be financialy viable, either the product has to go up in price in a big way, or the cost of planetary construction has to drop to a half, or even a quarter what it is now, or the hotspots need to shift over a few weeks, rather than a few days.
I'm looking for constructive advice on how i can make my planets viable, I've three extraction planets, one processing. the extraction planets are barren which pumps out precious metals and reactive metals, storm which produces electrolyes and water, and plasma which makes toxic metals and precious metals. each resource on each planet has an ECU with about 6 nodes, though i have been adding and subtracting nodes to try to balance out the heavy density materials with the lower density ones. the ECU is hooked up to two basic processors, which are hooked up to a spaceport. in only one case, the bit where I'm extracting base metals to be made into reactive metals on the barren planet, am i extracting more material than i can process, all the others only make the second processor cycle every other, and some only every third cycle of the ECU
the total count of structures for each planet comes to this: 12 extractor nodes, two ECU, four basic processors, two spaceports, and a lvl 4 command center.
The processing planet has three basic processors for when i have a surplus of that, nine advanced for the production of uranium, coolant, and mech parts, and three hi tech processors in case i ever need them, though i doubt that i will. these are interconnected with three spaceports and two storage facilities.
I'm repeating what i think CCP needs to do about the problem, so that it takes little effort to find amid the wall of text: In order for hisec PI to be financialy viable, either the product has to go up in price in a big way, or the cost of planetary construction has to drop to a half, or even a quarter what it is now, or the hotspots need to shift over a few weeks, rather than a few days.
I'm not sure how much control CCP has over the prices of the goods, but they can drop construction costs and the hotspot shift.
Edit: i just realized that the gist of my rant was "i can't adapt" while i characterized the other guys who had the same kinds of problems as trading crap. this stuff is really hard on my wallet, and right now i can't afford it.
put simply, I can't adapt, but me and my corpies need the fuel, but we have enough strains on our budget right now without dealing with my being unable to do what i was doing a month ago. if we don't get this pos up soon, we're going to be burning too much money on bpcs that are materially inefficient to make much money afterwards.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.01 07:51:00 -
[189]
Adopting to something that is broken is not called adopting, it's called bending over... Starting to think that the silence from CCP is some kind of hope that this issue will magically go away.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.01 08:15:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Euporie Adopting to something that is broken is not called adopting, it's called bending over... Starting to think that the silence from CCP is some kind of hope that this issue will magically go away.
PI changes came because people didn't shut up about it. Don't shut up about it.
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Joseph Vacher
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:08:00 -
[191]
I suppose the problem for CCP is exactly how to make it interesting. I have to admit I cannot think of a way that extracting materials from a planet by moving tiny icons around, for minimal reward, could be made fun.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:25:00 -
[192]
Can ignore all the people that like the change over.. just like some of you people believe CCP is ignoring you, cause they aren't doing it your way. Nice double standard.. childish.
I don't know what you people expect, honestly. It is easy to get into.. it is easy to do. Eople are pulling in more than before.. some are not. If the majority are not.. then you aren't the only ones, and the majority is not. You can find solice in that.. and knowing that supply is going down.. as well as macro usage to further the decline of supply onto market.
But..
Only time will tell if prices will actually raise, that depends on Market Demand. And if that is not going up.. that means more people are doing PI for their own production chains/fuel, cause more people enjoy it over the previous model. Which means CCP succeeded.
Go ahead and believe you are entitled to mad profits.. on such a low level entry mini-game that takes very little time and effort, once understood. That sort of rational thinking, isn't rational at all.. it's quite, Mad.
Don't like it.. don't do it. No one is making you. But I know most of you that hate it, won't stop(unless your bot programs are broken, and that's the real reason you won't move on). You know full well, it is still solid income for very little work involved. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:55:00 -
[193]
Says the guy that has no idea how PI works, and probably has never used it... Get out troll...
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.02.01 10:54:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Euporie Says the guy that has no idea how PI works, and probably has never used it... Get out troll...
Just cause your network of PI slave botters suddenly couldn't do their work to keep your POS network running doesn't mean it's bad game design.
And considering the lower than expected commodity prices I'd say there's not a problem.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.01 11:06:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Umega Can ignore all the people that like the change over.. just like some of you people believe CCP is ignoring you, cause they aren't doing it your way. Nice double standard.. childish.
I don't know what you people expect, honestly. It is easy to get into.. it is easy to do. Eople are pulling in more than before.. some are not. If the majority are not.. then you aren't the only ones, and the majority is not. You can find solice in that.. and knowing that supply is going down.. as well as macro usage to further the decline of supply onto market.
But..
Only time will tell if prices will actually raise, that depends on Market Demand. And if that is not going up.. that means more people are doing PI for their own production chains/fuel, cause more people enjoy it over the previous model. Which means CCP succeeded.
Go ahead and believe you are entitled to mad profits.. on such a low level entry mini-game that takes very little time and effort, once understood. That sort of rational thinking, isn't rational at all.. it's quite, Mad.
Don't like it.. don't do it. No one is making you. But I know most of you that hate it, won't stop(unless your bot programs are broken, and that's the real reason you won't move on). You know full well, it is still solid income for very little work involved.
I am so very tired of posts like this.
I do not do PI for the income. Most people who do PI seriously are in the same boat. We are part of massive alliances with many, many POS set up in our sov systems and our corp mates need the things we produce to keep their systems online.
The loss in production means that the contracts we were already working to fill are taking longer, there are less fuels to go around, and regardless of prices (which don't tend to rise within our corp because we're doing it for the corp, else we'd not bother with PI in the first place) we simply cannot meet the demand without forcing even more people into a game mechanic most of us aren't ever going to enjoy.
Yeah, I'm glad the UI is easier to reset. On the list of concerns, it's pretty low priority that I click less, and pretty high priority that I am able to keep my squad in POS fuels.
You seem to lack the basic understanding that the demand exists, in fact it only increases as more people online stations. Every station already up needs to be fed. That demand does not go away or fluctuate, and that's what the majority of people bothering with PI in the first place are into.
Extraction and depletion rates are a problem. But don't make the mistake of "no one is making you do PI". Yeah, they are. Our stations require it, our corp mates need it. Maybe if you worked with an Alliance that actually owned and operated stuff you'd understand.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.01 11:08:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Euporie Says the guy that has no idea how PI works, and probably has never used it... Get out troll...
Just cause your network of PI slave botters suddenly couldn't do their work to keep your POS network running doesn't mean it's bad game design.
And considering the lower than expected commodity prices I'd say there's not a problem.
Sweet. Turns out I have PI slave bots and a POS network!!! Where can I claim the production of said POSes or bots? I'm pretty sure that the PI botters don't care much, because the bot programs will evolve and manage to work. And PI is probably not exactly the most lucrative place you could use bots, but hey no one said thinking is easy. Trolling on the other hand is...
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Dusica
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.01 12:25:00 -
[197]
PI is terrible. Now that out of the way i would like to suggest that this new stuff Extractor control units become movable so once damn hot spot moves i do not need to destroy it just move it around ( together with links ).
Add new system for mass production where i can group factories and instead of setting up each of them to do same job we can do it once for all of them. --------------- Mortal in body Eternal in will. |
Thaddius Zeliak
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Posted - 2011.02.01 13:15:00 -
[198]
PI is not terrible. You are.
For any of the spoiled little brats crying because they cannot complete p4 products using only one planet really need to get their heads out of their asses.
PI is wonderful. Ive been doing it for a week now and it is the most relaxing and effortless 70 million a day I've ever imagined. I play around and have fun with the planets, spend 10 minutes a day hauling cargo from my 4 P1 planets to my P3 production planet, and bam. Its easy. I use four planets for P1. Each uses 1 spaceport, 1 extract with 10 heads, and 7 processors. I use anywhere from a 1 to 7 day cycle. I produce enough P0 to supply a constant stream of P1, and im generally sitting on around 300,000 extra units of each P0 material.
So heres my tip for you. 1. Stop crying and stop acting like a little brat. 2. Stop expecting PI to be a free paycheck with a spoon fed dinner as compliments. 3. Stop doing PI in highsec. Nothing in highsec has any true profit margin. 4. Instead of crying on the forums, go learn how to properly manage your planetary colonies.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.01 13:41:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Euporie on 01/02/2011 13:41:32
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak PI is not terrible. You are.
For any of the spoiled little brats crying because they cannot complete p4 products using only one planet really need to get their heads out of their asses.
PI is wonderful. Ive been doing it for a week now and it is the most relaxing and effortless 70 million a day I've ever imagined. I play around and have fun with the planets, spend 10 minutes a day hauling cargo from my 4 P1 planets to my P3 production planet, and bam. Its easy. I use four planets for P1. Each uses 1 spaceport, 1 extract with 10 heads, and 7 processors. I use anywhere from a 1 to 7 day cycle. I produce enough P0 to supply a constant stream of P1, and im generally sitting on around 300,000 extra units of each P0 material.
So heres my tip for you. 1. Stop crying and stop acting like a little brat. 2. Stop expecting PI to be a free paycheck with a spoon fed dinner as compliments. 3. Stop doing PI in highsec. Nothing in highsec has any true profit margin. 4. Instead of crying on the forums, go learn how to properly manage your planetary colonies.
1/10 for the effort. 70mil a day? or 7mil a day? Might want to check those numbers again, there is no way you can do 70mil/day. That is like 2.1B/month, so yeah... you fail bad at trolling and doing math... considering you do it with 1 char.
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Jonna Fortis
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Posted - 2011.02.01 14:00:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Oslarica I'm a PI builder in high sec. I have one char with lv5 planetology, lv4 advanced planetology. I found the new PI formula cause me lose about 33% extracting rate per 5 hour in an elite PI, which is producing one type of advanced procuct before. The dxxn extractor control unit costs 2600 power and 550 for each extractor head. The "33%" number comes from real extracting amount per cycle, comparing to "same power usage extators" before. So the CCP wants everyone to focus on only one basic prodcut in each planet? Maybe they think the price of rocket fuel is not high enough, so they should put it to 30k per unit.
So they nerfed your passive isk printer.
Well boohoo.
Biomass yourself.
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Thaddius Zeliak
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Posted - 2011.02.01 16:26:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Euporie Edited by: Euporie on 01/02/2011 13:41:32
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak PI is not terrible. You are.
For any of the spoiled little brats crying because they cannot complete p4 products using only one planet really need to get their heads out of their asses.
PI is wonderful. Ive been doing it for a week now and it is the most relaxing and effortless 70 million a day I've ever imagined. I play around and have fun with the planets, spend 10 minutes a day hauling cargo from my 4 P1 planets to my P3 production planet, and bam. Its easy. I use four planets for P1. Each uses 1 spaceport, 1 extract with 10 heads, and 7 processors. I use anywhere from a 1 to 7 day cycle. I produce enough P0 to supply a constant stream of P1, and im generally sitting on around 300,000 extra units of each P0 material.
So heres my tip for you. 1. Stop crying and stop acting like a little brat. 2. Stop expecting PI to be a free paycheck with a spoon fed dinner as compliments. 3. Stop doing PI in highsec. Nothing in highsec has any true profit margin. 4. Instead of crying on the forums, go learn how to properly manage your planetary colonies.
1/10 for the effort. 70mil a day? or 7mil a day? Might want to check those numbers again, there is no way you can do 70mil/day. That is like 2.1B/month, so yeah... you fail bad at trolling and doing math... considering you do it with 1 char.
Oh, its quite feasible. 20 reactors pumping out 3 P3 products an hour. Thats about...60 an hour. Hmm, 60 x 24 = 1440. If each module sells for 45k isk, thats 64.8 million a day. Then all of the excess P2 and P1 for the day.
Like i said, you are all just doing it wrong. It was broken before the patch. Now it is fixed. You just need to update your brain a little bit. Be intuitive. Do some learning. Do some reasearch. DO SOME TESTING. When you're actively fixing a problem and not crying, results are bound to happen. If you would like any tips on how to maximize your PI past times feel free to send me an in game mail. I will be more than happy to help you out, tell you how to properly set up a colony, and how to best maximize your available resources.
Im currently working on interactive databases and flash "games" to simplify the new PI for people who obviously just cannot figure out how to turn a dime or a nickel.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.02.01 16:44:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Jaik7
.. they change the kind of datacores i need to make ships and drones from molecular engineering to mechanical engineering, making two weeks of training worthless to what i planned on doing.
no you fail.... that has always been like that --
Join BIG
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.02.01 17:45:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Shakon on 01/02/2011 17:48:20 Edited by: Shakon on 01/02/2011 17:47:40 Why mail an idiot in game about PI. Your lieing it will be cheaper to put you on my watch list and pop you for being an idiot fan boy lieing about yourself.
70 mil sure buddy bit you aint extracting crap. You might be buying p1 or 2 and makeing p3 but you aint doing anything else. AND your not taking out the costs of purchaseing those products!
I have hotspots that depleted the first day and they STILL have not refilled. ON multiple planets. IF you doing well under new system its because you are doing small scale stuff and or where an idiot before.
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.01 19:29:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak Oh, its quite feasible. 20 reactors pumping out 3 P3 products an hour. Thats about...60 an hour. Hmm, 60 x 24 = 1440. If each module sells for 45k isk, thats 64.8 million a day. Then all of the excess P2 and P1 for the day.
Hrm. 20 P3 processors? Wow. Do you even do PI at all?? Because this is so obviously ignorant, you barely even qualify as a troll.
Each P3 processor requires a total of 4 P2 processors to keep it fed - because it requires two cycles of P2 output to make 1 cycle of P3 input, and that's for each of two products. Each P2 processor requires one P1 processor - it's still two cycles of output to make one cycle of input, but the P1 processors run twice as fast.
So if you're running 20 P3 processors, that means you have 80 P2 processors feeding it, and you have 80 P1 processors feeding that. Shall I go into the math of how that doesn't match up with what you describe your setup as? Or can you handle that part on your own?
Just to finish this off, if you've got 20 P1 processors for each of your 4 materials, then there's no room on the planet for ECUs. But even if there were, you'd need to be pulling 120K/hour to keep them fed. That number is, to say the least, fictional.
I'm not sure whether the proper response is mockery or pity at this point, but it's certainly NOT taking him seriously.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.01 20:08:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Horizonist on 01/02/2011 20:19:17
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak PI is not terrible. You are.
For any of the spoiled little brats crying because they cannot complete p4 products using only one planet really need to get their heads out of their asses.
PI is wonderful. Ive been doing it for a week now and it is the most relaxing and effortless 70 million a day I've ever imagined. I play around and have fun with the planets, spend 10 minutes a day hauling cargo from my 4 P1 planets to my P3 production planet, and bam. Its easy. I use four planets for P1. Each uses 1 spaceport, 1 extract with 10 heads, and 7 processors. I use anywhere from a 1 to 7 day cycle. I produce enough P0 to supply a constant stream of P1, and im generally sitting on around 300,000 extra units of each P0 material.
So heres my tip for you. 1. Stop crying and stop acting like a little brat. 2. Stop expecting PI to be a free paycheck with a spoon fed dinner as compliments. 3. Stop doing PI in highsec. Nothing in highsec has any true profit margin. 4. Instead of crying on the forums, go learn how to properly manage your planetary colonies.
So, you have 4 planets, with 7 P1 processors each. I assume you are making a P3 with only 2 P2 as input, and hence produce 1 separate P1 for each planet.
you are making 280 of each P1 per hour (7*40) you pump that into your 4 different P2 facilities (7 for each pair of P1 - 14 in all), giving you 35 of each P2 an hour Finally, you pump that into your P3 facilities (of which you can impossibly have more than 7, due to the above), producing 21 P3 per hour. Being optimistic and assuming you sell each for 50k, you are thus making 1.05 mil an hour, and a grand total of 21.2 mil a day.
That is not 70 mil, or am I missing something above?
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.01 20:36:00 -
[206]
They are buying P1 and P2 from the market, and process them to P3. They don't do the actual extraction P0->P1 or P0->P1->P2. That's why they don't "see" the drop in extraction rate.
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.02 06:03:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Euporie They are buying P1 and P2 from the market, and process them to P3. They don't do the actual extraction P0->P1 or P0->P1->P2. That's why they don't "see" the drop in extraction rate.
No, Thaddius at least claims to be extracting. "Troll" is too good a description, he's pretty much just a liar.
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Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.03 00:13:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak
Originally by: Euporie Edited by: Euporie on 01/02/2011 13:41:32
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak PI is not terrible. You are.
For any of the spoiled little brats crying because they cannot complete p4 products using only one planet really need to get their heads out of their asses.
PI is wonderful. Ive been doing it for a week now and it is the most relaxing and effortless 70 million a day I've ever imagined. I play around and have fun with the planets, spend 10 minutes a day hauling cargo from my 4 P1 planets to my P3 production planet, and bam. Its easy. I use four planets for P1. Each uses 1 spaceport, 1 extract with 10 heads, and 7 processors. I use anywhere from a 1 to 7 day cycle. I produce enough P0 to supply a constant stream of P1, and im generally sitting on around 300,000 extra units of each P0 material.
So heres my tip for you. 1. Stop crying and stop acting like a little brat. 2. Stop expecting PI to be a free paycheck with a spoon fed dinner as compliments. 3. Stop doing PI in highsec. Nothing in highsec has any true profit margin. 4. Instead of crying on the forums, go learn how to properly manage your planetary colonies.
1/10 for the effort. 70mil a day? or 7mil a day? Might want to check those numbers again, there is no way you can do 70mil/day. That is like 2.1B/month, so yeah... you fail bad at trolling and doing math... considering you do it with 1 char.
Oh, its quite feasible. 20 reactors pumping out 3 P3 products an hour. Thats about...60 an hour. Hmm, 60 x 24 = 1440. If each module sells for 45k isk, thats 64.8 million a day. Then all of the excess P2 and P1 for the day.
Like i said, you are all just doing it wrong. It was broken before the patch. Now it is fixed. You just need to update your brain a little bit. Be intuitive. Do some learning. Do some reasearch. DO SOME TESTING. When you're actively fixing a problem and not crying, results are bound to happen. If you would like any tips on how to maximize your PI past times feel free to send me an in game mail. I will be more than happy to help you out, tell you how to properly set up a colony, and how to best maximize your available resources.
Im currently working on interactive databases and flash "games" to simplify the new PI for people who obviously just cannot figure out how to turn a dime or a nickel.
I'd like to vote this the dumbest post in the thread. Are you willing to save face by admitting to blatant trolling, or would you like to continue to insist you're doing something mathematically impossible with the current game engine? Feeding 20 advanced processors 24 hours a day would take probably two or three planets per resource depending on security rating and depletion and other people on planet. You want to claim you've got 14 planets running? I'd believe that, I can make about 60m a day on three characters which can all run five planets each when the markets up.
Granted, I'm making 60m like I used to because prices have risen. That's not solving the "feed our alliance POS problems", but keep making **** up if you want to look stupid.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.02.03 02:55:00 -
[209]
hmmmm..... arguing with an idiot... who's really the dumb one?
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.02.03 03:08:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Onibrak Granted, I'm making 60m like I used to because prices have risen. That's not solving the "feed our alliance POS problems", but keep making **** up if you want to look stupid.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is 'working as intended', and CCP are just going to ignore the splerging here.
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Barry Ze'Choppa
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.03 08:10:00 -
[211]
Ultimate PI solution: The Deathstar.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.02.03 09:22:00 -
[212]
Really startling thing happened just a few minutes ago, those dead, sucked bone dry, planets in high sec, suddenly sprouted big fat white spots all over. Im getting deposits where there wasen't even blue before. However, extraction rates are no better than a day ago. Still the same 7 heads and 4k, but it shows up as a white spot now. If anything, at least i can see the richest spots on a depleted planet. But, how do i tell a rich planet from a depleted one??
Anyone else getting this?
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Barry Ze'Choppa
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.03 10:09:00 -
[213]
Hmm, just checked my low-sec planets and there doesn't appear to be much difference at a glance.
Are you scanning your planets from a different location than usual? "I have to return some holotapes." |
Sansa Comfrey
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Posted - 2011.02.03 10:25:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Originally by: Euporie They are buying P1 and P2 from the market, and process them to P3. They don't do the actual extraction P0->P1 or P0->P1->P2. That's why they don't "see" the drop in extraction rate.
No, Thaddius at least claims to be extracting. "Troll" is too good a description, he's pretty much just a liar.
Or someone who thinks he's making p3 but is actually making p2.
I'd love to see the look on his face when he thinks he's about to sell for 45k and instead only gets 7k.
He did say he's only been doing it for a few days.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.02.03 13:07:00 -
[215]
Nope, still doing PI from the same few solar systems. The heat map has updated for me. What i did do just before, was click 'clear all settings' from the client menu (just remembered that). I wont go into why, but maybe that gave me a new heat map when i scanned again. Anyone else care to give it a try? It means kiling all your bookmarks and such but it might reset your maps too.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.02.03 13:34:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Sokrates Zosimus on 03/02/2011 13:34:13 Actually, i tell a lie. I am getting some resources now. It's not where things where when the new PI started but things have come back slightly.
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John DaiSho
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Posted - 2011.02.03 15:37:00 -
[217]
The new PI is good, 1 ECU with 8 heads on a good spot in lowsec producing P1 (the good ones sell for min 700 atm) with enough P1 processors (8 can be fed quite well 23/7) pumps out:
40 Units per hour per processor with 8 processors running 23 hours per day selling for 700 per unit
40x8x23x700=5152000 (5.152 Mil) ISK per day. When doing this on 5 planets you get 25.76 Mil ISK per day.
This is the easiest way of setting up PI, just producing P1 and hauling the stuff from your planets to Jita, Rens, whatever every 3 days and gives you approx 700 mil per month. And when the P1 you are producing is going down in prices you just change to whatever is selling good now, your ECU can extract everything.
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.03 16:33:00 -
[218]
Originally by: John DaiSho 40x8x23x700=5152000 (5.152 Mil) ISK per day. When doing this on 5 planets you get 25.76 Mil ISK per day.
This is the easiest way of setting up PI, just producing P1 and hauling the stuff from your planets to Jita, Rens, whatever every 3 days and gives you approx 700 mil per month.
On 5 planets it's also about 15,000 m3 per day. That adds up fast, and especially if you're hauling out of lowsec it's going to mean a lot of regular runs in vulnerable industrials. For nullsec it's even worse.
Possible and viable are not really the same thing.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.03 16:43:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Verkala Ven
Possible and viable are not really the same thing.
This.
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John DaiSho
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Posted - 2011.02.03 19:49:00 -
[220]
15k m3 per day, thats 1.5 trips in a normal blockade runner. If you manage to get caught in a blockade runner in lowsec...damn, you suck.
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Verkala Ven
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Posted - 2011.02.03 21:59:00 -
[221]
Originally by: John DaiSho 15k m3 per day, thats 1.5 trips in a normal blockade runner. If you manage to get caught in a blockade runner in lowsec...damn, you suck.
You're talking about multiple round trips if you're planning on selling in Jita. How long does that take? Using a blockade runner instead of an industrial quadruples the number of trips you have to make. You're talking about a serious time investment. Serious enough that you have to start looking hard at opportunity cost.
And while it's relatively safe, it's not perfect, and you're talking about a very expensive ship. It only takes one lucky/good interceptor pilot to ruin your day.
Again: Possible is not viable. Is it possible? Sure. Is it viable? You do it for a few weeks and let me know how enjoyable the trip still is for you.
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John DaiSho
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Posted - 2011.02.03 22:11:00 -
[222]
So you would make every run from lowsec to jita in the blockade runner? i haul everything into the first highsec and then use a normal industrial, but you can do any way you want, of course.
And i have never lost a blockade runner in lowsec, there are no bubbles, interceptors would get killed by sentryguns in seconds and you only stay at the planet for seconds, way to fast for anyone to scan you down/find you, especially when you warp cloaked.
But in the end, im making my money and everyone who doesnt want to take a small risk and stays in highsec will just keep the price of PI stuff high. Thanks \o/
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.02.03 23:28:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Shakon on 03/02/2011 23:29:18
Well as stupid as you are i doubt you own a Blockade runner muchless go to lowsec. Give me a system and Ill see if your actually doing it or just talking crap. Of course I might pop you for being an idiot thru
Edited because i fergot to add Your not an idiot just stupid.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.02.03 23:39:00 -
[224]
What he's talking about is right on. (referring to logistics, don't care to double-check peoples numbers) Before moving to my wormhole I had 2 characters running 5 planets out of low-sec. Some of them 4 jumps in. Using BR's to grab the goods and pull them into high-sec was a piece of cake. Even 13 consecutive trips by the same pilot, going right past a few pirates, and I never got locked onto once. Just because you don't have the brains or stones to manage it doesn't make other people stupid.
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Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.02.03 23:56:00 -
[225]
Initially I had similar issues to you. This I changed my methodology and approach to the whole PI thing.
Using dome Lean and Theory of Constraints and looking at the whole thing (Systems thinking) I realised the following.
My bottle next is resource extraction. I need to extract the most amount of resources froma planet as possible to make the most amount of product.
So this meant that on the planets that I was extracting resources from I should do this in an optimal manner. This meant removing all other operations that do not need to be there.
So step 1 was to move all Advanced Industry units off planet (decomission them). On a planet that has a resource I want, I mine that resource and convert it to it level 1 product only. Nothing else happens on the planet (tecnically I could remove the Basic industry as well and just do extraction but with the current storage capabilities and limits on expedited transfers this is not worth while).
Each day I have my 4 character (mining 23 planets) collect up the days products and centralise them in a hanger. The 1 character takes them to the 24th planet which Only runs advanced factories, taking the basic output from teh other 23 planets and manufactoring them into the end products I want.
Using this approach I am producitng about 60% more than I was previously (so about 30% more than the old system). Once we get some decent sized storage or are able to change stoarge facilites together I can increase this further by moving the basic factories off planet as well.
Yes this means more hauling work to run the network but it means lots more profits.
So the steps were : Identify the constraint to more production (how much I can mine) Exploit the constraint to it's full potential (mine as much as I can) Subordinate all the other processes to this (move advanced factories to another planet) Elevate the constraint by using 1 day 1 hour extraction (I update my programs evey day at the same time, but if I am a little late the extractors are still running because I have built some 'slack' into their extraction program). Review the results. Look for opportunities to improve.
Yes this is pure Theory of Constraints in the approach, but it has worked for me and continues to work. If we can get CCP to look at the storage issues them I can improve the system further (my constraint has now moved from extraction to Storage but is limited by a poor design). So now I am going to try to address this to CCP to improve the storage capabilites of the PI system (or get them to include other options for storage).
Hope this helps.
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Henry Haphorn
Gallente Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.02.04 00:10:00 -
[226]
I agree with Johnathan Silence. The bottle neck with the new PI system is now the storage capacity. Even the customs offices are not going to be enough pretty soon for those who take the time to maximize their harvesting potential.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.02.04 09:36:00 -
[227]
Yes it does greg.. I live in low sec. I doubt you made 13 runs at a peak time. Even in a BR.
Maybe when pops low or your just near some squid pies.(FW dig)
no way to make the money hes claiming running a BR into low sec. But then you 2 sound like Minerals are free if you mine them types. SO i guess you guys use plexes to make up your BS statements.
Im running a transport (Masti)and even then i cant haul enough out to make what these idiots have been claiming. And i can carry 3 times plus what a BR does.
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Carlvagio
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Posted - 2011.02.04 10:34:00 -
[228]
Im gonna have to eat some crow on this one. Admittedly i was lil butt hurt with the changes when they launched. But after a few weeks, and after investing more skill points in planetology skills, ive changed my opinion on new PI. Im operating in wh for whats its worth. Since the change I've recovered from initial productivity loses, and actually scaled up my operation up 33%. Not only that but in a sick way im starting to enjoy PI. Moving the ECU around every few days, mapping out different regions for my alts to use. Just the fact that ive adapted and made it work, better than before, is satisfying. Plus upgradable CC and flexible cycle times. Only complaint is that its a little laggy for now.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.02.04 10:37:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Shakon Yes it does greg.. I live in low sec. I doubt you made 13 runs at a peak time. Even in a BR.
Maybe when pops low or your just near some squid pies.(FW dig)
no way to make the money hes claiming running a BR into low sec. But then you 2 sound like Minerals are free if you mine them types. SO i guess you guys use plexes to make up your BS statements.
Im running a transport (Masti)and even then i cant haul enough out to make what these idiots have been claiming. And i can carry 3 times plus what a BR does.
I think BRs are a tad risky, certainly in certain very active systems (I use them to haul from station to customs office and vice versa). But I make regular supply runs with 3-4 Viators in a fleet to haul PI out and into my production system. The P2 goes out, four jumps to high-sec, and cheap P1 goes in to my production system. In system I try to mine the most expensive P1 on the market, as much as possible, I buy the other P1s cheaply on the market and import those. With four Viators I run around 215M isk worth of P2 materials, I need to make some more investments (isk and skill wise) and that might increase by around 75% per run. Once in high-sec I use RFF to haul it to market and RFF to haul 'cheap' P1 to my staging station in high-sec. I use planets to extract one type of resource and convert that directly to P1, and other dedicated planets to convert P1 to P2. I find P3 to unprofitable at the moment.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.02.04 12:16:00 -
[230]
I can see that. That makes more sense than claiming 1 BR running enough. A fleet i can see doing it. I run my p1 and a select few p2 stuff to a high sec manufacture planet.
I also agree p3 is not looking to good at the moment. And with changes alot more p1 is going to come out for a little bit so i do not see prices rising anytime soon.
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John DaiSho
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Posted - 2011.02.04 13:58:00 -
[231]
I never said that i am doing that kind of PI, i said its the most basic way to set up profitable PI. I for myself run 2 P1 Planets and 3 P2 Planets. The Spaceport of the P1 Planets are full every 3 days approx so i need 2 Blockade Runner Runs every 3 days for them, the P2 planets need alot less hauling. And of course, i wouldnt try to fly regulary through dangerous Lowsec like Rancer etc, even in a BR, there is enough Lowsec thats quite quiet.
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Siyk
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Posted - 2011.02.04 19:26:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Siyk on 04/02/2011 19:27:06 The one and only thing I am dissapointed about is the fact we cannot pick up our entire colony and drag it to another location... it makes relocation a nightmare and very costly... Alternately reduce the grid amount for longer links, I hate the idea I have to relocate every other day when it could be simply dragged to a new location (again, they could just not charge us additional amounts of we destroy and reallocate some of our factories/silo's)
However, I am just going to forget about it and move on, CCP will never address their community as always, 'adapt and get over it' tbh.
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Karren SaJet
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:45:00 -
[233]
Quote: So now I am going to try to address this to CCP to improve the storage capabilites of the PI system (or get them to include other options for storage).
This!!!
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Starlight Twilight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 22:07:00 -
[234]
when I was running around on the forums, I finally found the PI blog which states "You can move the extractor heads to get more performance" it would be nice if someone pointed this out with the new PI change when they did it, because this actually makes it bearable now...
Star Light Star bright, The first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, Have the wish I wish tonight. I wish for chocolate! |
Quartermaster General
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Posted - 2011.02.05 19:00:00 -
[235]
Disappearing reappearing ore? And the moving and relocation of PI facilities. TOO frequent and very unnecessary. Over months/year of time, maybe/YES, over days of time, NO! Be more realistic in this part. We are not fisher men! We are miners!
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Tset Tsun
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Posted - 2011.02.06 18:34:00 -
[236]
This
Originally by: Siyk Edited by: Siyk on 04/02/2011 19:27:06 ..... CCP will never address their community as always, 'adapt and get over it' tbh.
All of these responses spread out over the forums on PI and.... nothing.
The silence is deafening.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.02.06 21:24:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Tset Tsun This
Originally by: Siyk Edited by: Siyk on 04/02/2011 19:27:06 ..... CCP will never address their community as always, 'adapt and get over it' tbh.
All of these responses spread out over the forums on PI and.... nothing.
The silence is deafening.
Nothing? You need to get your eyes checked, look at the Dev blog and some of the Dev responses in some of the other PI threads (often referring to the Dev Blog). The thing is that they have pretty much said that it now works as intended. And the whining of a few hundred souls (for a game with 300k+ accounts) is not going to change that. We've also not been playing with this long enough (in production) for us to see the complete ramifications. I also see some pretty sad and clueless responses, a guy complaining that it wasn't clear you could move the extractor heads!?!? EVE has never been a game with a manual, half the challenge is finding out how things work and tweaking them to best fit your situation.
I really wished the silence was deafening, all I hear is the incessant sound of whining...
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.02.07 01:24:00 -
[238]
The changes to PI are the reason I've personally gotten more involved than previously. The new look is more exciting in my opinion, whereas before it was a yawn, click click click part of my day. I understand that these changes aren't liked by everyone, what changes are? As with any change, I doubt this is the end and look forward to continuous improvement in the future.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.02.07 04:23:00 -
[239]
2 fanboy alts why that never Happens
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Perrin Mandragoran
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Posted - 2011.02.07 08:28:00 -
[240]
Imho, what they need to do is make the Locations on planets able to be turned off, like POS objects, so that you can have multiple colonies on one planet and rotate them around with the resources, and just only one being active...
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Gella Darru
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Posted - 2011.02.07 10:09:00 -
[241]
I don't know about you guys... but to me the depletion in lowsec seems rather over the top.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.07 15:12:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Gella Darru I don't know about you guys... but to me the depletion in lowsec seems rather over the top.
I double that
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Takashi Sato
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:09:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Takashi Sato on 07/02/2011 17:09:49 I agree depletion can be considered excessive, it can be controlled to a certain degree though. I had a couple planets in hisec right before this went live and when I redid my extractors I was quite suprised to see the number of basic processors needed went up for my 24h cycles. I had run 30+ planets in a WH before this so I am not new to the system though. Depletion kicked in and I was starting to see processors sitting idle and I started thinking about it. I also had not moved any of my ECU's around at all. Since then I have split up my ECU's and dont run 12-15 extractor heads on each hotspot and also run them all on 3 day cycles now. I almost keep 5 processors busy 24/7 with my current setups in 0.4 lowsec even after a few days, the depletion is minimal becuse instead of trying to focus on one area I am spreading out my ECU's on multiple hotspots. Extracing less per hotspot and my depletion is managable/minimal. I do have one planet stil with all extractors on 1 hotspot becuase I wanted to compare and there I am seeing excessive depletion.
Two complaints though. If I set up a ECU and accept the program but dont click submit then cancel the program the planet depletes some. Unless this is because I have planetology 5 and adv. pl 4 it is most likely a bug. Also, we cant run a cycle similar to the shortest cycle before and build up a massive overstock of P0 and then switch to a longer cycle to maintain the basic processors being able to process for a while. As it is now if you do a 1h program or a 3 day program the first hour of the long program still extracts the same amount as the hour program does. I prefered the old system. Oh remembered a third thing. The areas where an extractor head extracts from getting bigger and bigger the longer the program is counter productive because you cant fit as many heads on the hotspots. I dont mind lower production per hour picking a longer program but with depletion and head extraction area the really long cycles are really not worth doing. As it is I am running 3d cycles and it seems to be a nice balance unless I stop them every day. |
Onibrak
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 05:58:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Onibrak on 08/02/2011 06:01:06
Originally by: Gella Darru I don't know about you guys... but to me the depletion in lowsec seems rather over the top.
It is. I submitted a petition, and the GMs response was basically "working as intended, so **** you we don't share game mechanics".
They like the way it is, they pretty much ****ed PI entirely. I've got areas of planets where I was the only one who extracted, no one else ever set up there, and now over a week after I stopped mining anywhere in the vicinity it's still orange with a little red coming back in in places that were entirely red and white.
Basically, if you maintain extraction rates anywhere close to where they used to be, you will turn a significant portion of a hemisphere into nothing within days, and it will not regen even if left alone for three to four times the amount of time it takes to deplete the area running somewhat aggressive 12 hour cycles.
The new cycle times alone suck. I imagine that 12 hours (which is middle of the road compared to what used to be aggressive) is now ridiculous when you can set 14 day cycles. Seems they intend to make the new PI about as brainless as it used to be, setting it for days and forgetting about it to come back after a week or so to see an extraction amount that you used to be able to make in a day to a day and a half.
Efficient worthwhile PI is dead. I petitioned to get all my SP refunded for it and they said **** no to that too, so we're pretty much screwed. Even with prices rising I'm making about 6-8m per day per character now that I've depleted every hotspot within reasonable range of my colonies.
Literally not worth my time. Doing PI on three characters daily makes me less money than an hour of ratting in a group and takes more time. Absolute bull****. Most of the people who were doing PI in my corp are now just ratting, and with the current prices we're making more money after ratting and buying the PI products we used to make.
Industry in this game overall sucks terribly. Mining is mind numbing, PI is now not worth the time unless you're in highsec with no other sources of income, building and researching crap... well I'm not about to start training another industry skill after what they just did to one I was actually interested in participating in.
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Pearl Nicholas
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Posted - 2011.02.08 07:44:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Pearl Nicholas on 08/02/2011 07:44:57
Originally by: Thaddius Zeliak PI is not terrible. You are.
For any of the spoiled little brats crying because they cannot complete p4 products using only one planet really need to get their heads out of their asses.
PI is wonderful. Ive been doing it for a week now and it is the most relaxing and effortless 70 million a day I've ever imagined. I play around and have fun with the planets, spend 10 minutes a day hauling cargo from my 4 P1 planets to my P3 production planet, and bam. Its easy. I use four planets for P1. Each uses 1 spaceport, 1 extract with 10 heads, and 7 processors. I use anywhere from a 1 to 7 day cycle. I produce enough P0 to supply a constant stream of P1, and im generally sitting on around 300,000 extra units of each P0 material.
So heres my tip for you. 1. Stop crying and stop acting like a little brat. 2. Stop expecting PI to be a free paycheck with a spoon fed dinner as compliments. 3. Stop doing PI in highsec. Nothing in highsec has any true profit margin. 4. Instead of crying on the forums, go learn how to properly manage your planetary colonies.
Fail! After a week or so you will run out of red spots and start extracting from green patches. Your yield will decrease by approximately 75%, and you will be left with the decision to either move your colonies, or accept the 75% reduction in extraction yield. I'm guessing this character wont be be on this thread again, too ashamed of his/her ranting. Epic fail.
Here is my tip for you Thadius....dont touch the keyboard
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battlejuice
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Posted - 2011.02.08 08:39:00 -
[246]
Even though the depletion is worse then before the PI changes the prices of the products are falling and going down daily.
I just hope that lot of the PI runners will stop so the prices will go up again
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.08 11:23:00 -
[247]
@ Pearl. Exactly the same thing, white spots are gone in a matter of 2 days and after that the extraction rate just goes down a lot...and I get a lot of BIFs idle...
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.08 11:26:00 -
[248]
Originally by: battlejuice Even though the depletion is worse then before the PI changes the prices of the products are falling and going down daily.
I just hope that lot of the PI runners will stop so the prices will go up again
Got a news flash for you bro. A lot of people stock piled a ton of PI stuff from NPCs before the introduction of the PI at a prices that are x10~20 cheaper than the current prices. And that stock pile will take a LOT of time to clear. So keep dreaming...
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 13:43:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Euporie
Originally by: battlejuice Even though the depletion is worse then before the PI changes the prices of the products are falling and going down daily.
I just hope that lot of the PI runners will stop so the prices will go up again
Got a news flash for you bro. A lot of people stock piled a ton of PI stuff from NPCs before the introduction of the PI at a prices that are x10~20 cheaper than the current prices. And that stock pile will take a LOT of time to clear. So keep dreaming...
/me glances innocently at his mountain of Coolant.
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battlejuice
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Posted - 2011.02.08 15:10:00 -
[250]
Wonder how many have stocked more then 1 billion
There are always exceptions which have stocked more but I have a constant flow of this around a billion monthly with only a few millions having invested
Who was dreaming
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Barron Hammerstrike
Minmatar Intergang
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Posted - 2011.02.08 15:21:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Barron Hammerstrike on 08/02/2011 15:22:19 Although a severe clickfest the old system was better. I was using PI to produce POS fuel across 5 planets. Tested the new system on one planet... so far the depeletion doesn't seem too bad, but I've been conservative in my extraction. What I'm more curious about is the regeneration rate of the resources. Anyone have any input on this?
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.08 18:31:00 -
[252]
Originally by: battlejuice Wonder how many have stocked more then 1 billion
There are always exceptions which have stocked more but I have a constant flow of this around a billion monthly with only a few millions having invested
Who was dreaming
Yeah I'm pretty sure you and few other players are really happy, and the rest of the player base is screwed. Prime example of CCP brainless acting, and messing the whole economy big time.
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Zircalla
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Posted - 2011.02.08 18:44:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Zircalla on 08/02/2011 18:44:51 I am really happy. Whereas before I had to mindlessly click extractors, now I at least have to THINK about what I am doing, and that is a big improvement, regardless of the increase or decrease in production and/or isk. As far as I can tell, the major complaint is that people have to actually think about what they are doing, and maybe even DO something. How awful! Datacores are the only thing is similar as far as passive income goes, and datacore max out well below what PI brings in. And datacores require a load more skill training/status grinding....
PS: It is funny that you through out the term 'mindless', when that is basically what you are asking for....
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 18:51:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Zircalla As far as I can tell, the major complaint is that people have to actually think about what they are doing, and maybe even DO something.
No, we are not happy with the new PI for the simple reason that it has wrecked production as we know it.
It goes especially for P3+ producers, but even people like me who focus on P2 production have been struck down by it. Whereas I used to be able to fuel 25 P2 plants around the clock, I am now down to 18, and no matter how I try to optimize it, it seems plausible I might just have to dip a bit lower.
We have nothing against thinking to make ISK, we do have something against the entire system getting critically nerfed though.
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Euporie
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:10:00 -
[255]
^^^ THIS.
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Zircalla
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:10:00 -
[256]
Quote: against the entire system getting critically nerfed though.
Prior to PI, what else in the manuf. realm made you so much money for so little effort? And why does everyone happily ignore the (presumable) fact that less production will mean higher prices? If everyone is producing 25% less, is there suddenly a 25% dip in demand? 'Critically' nerfed? Even if we presume that the prices stay static, a money stream that did not exist a few months ago has been reduced? Honestly, it was a bit embarrassing at how our corp members were making billions just staring at their screens for an hour or so a night (like zombies) and clicking on extractors.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:22:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Zircalla
Quote: against the entire system getting critically nerfed though.
Prior to PI, what else in the manuf. realm made you so much money for so little effort?
Assuming you count mining in the manufacturing realm, AFK mining is still 30 minutes work a day for 1+ bil a month. In terms of ratio, that is pretty close to good PI these days.
Originally by: Zircalla
And why does everyone happily ignore the (presumable) fact that less production will mean higher prices? If everyone is producing 25% less, is there suddenly a 25% dip in demand?
Nobody ignores it, we have brought it up and discussed it again and again. However, this will only help offset some losses for the actual producers (especially P2 producers like me), it still burns just about everyone else.
Originally by: Zircalla
'Critically' nerfed? Even if we presume that the prices stay static, a money stream that did not exist a few months ago has been reduced? Honestly, it was a bit embarrassing at how our corp members were making billions just staring at their screens for an hour or so a night (like zombies) and clicking on extractors.
You have to look at the big picture - everyone has been hit by the new PI. Yes, as mentioned, P2 producers like me are probably the least affected, but what about everyone else? What about people who depend on PI to fuel their deep-nullsec POSes? What about the ordinary POS owners who have to face rocketing fuel prices? What about P3+ producers who have had to tear apart their entire setup because the new ECUs make it nigh impossible to do reasonable P3 production any more?
My point is simply that there are no winners in the new system, and that is indeed a nerf on all levels.
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Zircalla
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:36:00 -
[258]
Quote: Assuming you count mining in the manufacturing realm, AFK mining is still 30 minutes work a day for 1+ bil a month. In terms of ratio, that is pretty close to good PI these days.
Well, no, not really, especially during hulkaggeddon . I assume you mean 1 minute 30 times a day or whatever, spread out over the day? That is not really 30 minutes of work, then. I can log in for 15-30 minutes a day, log out, and once per month or so haul PI to market and sell it, and make a billion. Even if you could mine at 10 mil per hour, at 1/2 hour per online time per day that is 5 mil a day or 150 mil per month.
Quote: Nobody ignores it, we have brought it up and discussed it again and again. However, this will only help offset some losses for the actual producers (especially P2 producers like me), it still burns just about everyone else.
By 'losses', you mean that the money coming in is going to be less than before...that is not actually a 'loss', just less of a gain. It isn't like you are spending more than you are making...again, this has been a huge money stream for many players, and I think I remember CCP saying that PI would NOT be a huge money stream. Hence, they are changing it, it appears.
Quote: You have to look at the big picture - everyone has been hit by the new PI. Yes, as mentioned, P2 producers like me are probably the least affected, but what about everyone else? What about people who depend on PI to fuel their deep-nullsec POSes? What about the ordinary POS owners who have to face rocketing fuel prices? What about P3+ producers who have had to tear apart their entire setup because the new ECUs make it nigh impossible to do reasonable P3 production any more?
Well, I think the deep nullsec POSes will still be able to make plenty of fuel, they just probably won't have massive excesses to sell off now (or, at least, not as massive). Making fuel for a POS is not really that intensive, we do it with minimal effort. Yep, you will probably have to haul stuff around to make P3 (at all, really) or even P2 (efficiently, anyway).
For ordinary POS owners, if the price starts skyrocketing, then I suspect there will be more people moving into POS fuel PI production. I would actually expect the non-fuel (lower volume) stuff to get hurt price-wise in the long run - possibly driving up the cost of towers and such.
It is all wait and see, I think, to see what will actually happen to prices.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.08 20:14:00 -
[259]
Yes, I guess all we can do is wait and see in the end though. As it is though, outlooks are not all that bright.
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