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ShadowMaiden
Amarr Metal Machine Chaos Theory Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.14 23:40:00 -
[151]
Edited by: ShadowMaiden on 14/04/2010 23:40:46 So Mission runners want Ninja-salvagers to be flagged if they salvage what they see as "their" wrecks.
Yet in this very thread, we have people saying that NS'ers also loot something to tempt the MR into shooting them so the NS can come back and gank them.
So if you're of the "not going to be baited" camp, what would flagging salvagers actually achieve?
Nice fridge logic there...
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.04.14 23:51:00 -
[152]
If some of you spent more time thinking through or actually reading the many ways to avoid being ninja'd rather than moaning here you'd not have an issue.
If you allow yourselves to be 'griefed' it's your fault.
And I still have not had a satisfactory reply to my earlier post telling you clealry how to avoid it. Some of you are making things up based on your own experiences, many MR's never see a ninja salvager, earn more anyway and are completely bemused by these posts.
Speak for yourself and stop pretending it's an issue for MR's as it's only a small number of you who refuse to see the simple solutions even when they are listed for you in plain English.
Rant away as much as you want and argue all the semantics you want, the fact remains you're simply talking about a non issue.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:00:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/04/2010 00:00:11 5 pages, really?!?
edit: Oops, 6 pages, really?!?
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:10:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Mr Kidd Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/04/2010 00:00:11 5 pages, really?!?
edit: Oops, 6 pages, really?!?
It's the same people going round in circles and ignoring the obvious Evolution at work I suppose.
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Tycho Rafzakael
Caldari Rolling Independence of Destruction
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:20:00 -
[155]
Wow, all I gotta say is stop your whining you sound like a total carebear. It's a legit game mechanic, CCP has said this many times, deal with it!
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Brechan Skene
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Posted - 2010.04.15 06:55:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Brechan Skene on 15/04/2010 06:59:15 Edited by: Brechan Skene on 15/04/2010 06:57:04 O.k. this scenario is for all of the "its my kill my stuff" or "if my car gets exploded on the highway it is my stuff" posts. Here is the statement I had previously made within this post,ô Therefore what you are saying is that there is no example of a conflict/ engagement (a mission) occurring consisting of winner of the conflict/ engagement (the player) and a loser of the conflict / engagement (the NPC) and subsequently a third party (the Ninja) turning up later and salvaging the wrecks for profit without permission from either the designated player or NPC of the conflict/engagement.ö At this stage no one has openly disagreed with this. I now present you with a real life scenario that actually deals with an actually ship wreck.
There is a show on Discovery channel called http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/treasure-quest/treasure-quest.htmlTreasure Quest[/url. The Odyssey Marine Exploration Inc. (OME) is the world leader in the field of deep-ocean shipwreck exploration.Here is their Wikipedia site. I will be using them as the ninja salvager in the example I had previously posted. Odyssey is traded on the NASDAQ Stock Market under the symbol "OMEX".
The wreck that was salvaged is called the "Black Swan". In May 2007, the company announced the largest historic deep-ocean treasure recovery of over 500,000 silver and several hundred gold coins, weighing 17 tons, from a Colonial era site code-named "Black Swan." Spain has claimed rights to the treasure, and the case is currently being litigated in US Federal Court.
In the above example Spain has been designated the role of NPC because they were the loser of the conflict. Spain has claimed that it is the frigate Nuestra Senoara De Las Mercedes.
From the websites of the Nuestra Senora De Las Mercedes it acknowledges that the ship that made the killing blow was from a British Frigate.
Therefore this site acknowledges the winner of the conflict/ engagement (the player)as being the English. At this stage they have not yet made any claims for the items retrieved from the wreck.
For this example we will acknowledge that the ship, the "Black Swan" is actually the Spanish ship that was destroyed by British war ships. However if the ship is proven not to be the ship it is still a good example of the basic mechanics of ninja salvaging.
How does this example affect the way Ninja Salvaging is handled in this game? I will answer some question based on the "Black Swan" ,scenario.
1. Does the wreck belong to the mission runner
A: No. Currently there has been no attempt by Britain to make any claim for the treasure that was retrieved from the site.
2. The Ninja should be criminally flagged to the mission runner. No. See above answer. Also there has been no criminal action been taken by the British Government against the Company or any of its crew. However the Ship and crew was detained by the Spanish Government and later released. But no criminal charges were enforced against the Company or the crew.
3. Does the wreck and whatever is salvageable belongs to the NPC.
A: Maybe, but they have more rights than the mission runner. But that is dependent on court action by the Spanish Government. But it is worth noting that they are the only ones that a currently actively seeking ownership of the items that was recovered from the "Black Swan".
Brechan
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 07:34:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Skex Relbore Actually Tippia my understanding is that salvaging was completely intended as a supplemental income for mission runners to make up for a reduction at the time in bounties just like Drone goo was put in to make up for loss of bounties on drones.
CCP says otherwise. Yes, there was poor QA (or, rather, poor design) that made it so you couldn't salvage without looting first, but this was fixed (on many a MR's request). As for making the wrecks scannable, it's not something they feel they can do even today because it strains the servers too much – that's why it wasn't put in place to begin with.
Quote: I say its griefing because by the very admission of many (if not most) of the Ninja Salvagers that have piped in on this thread
Unfortunately, that doesn't make it griefing, because that's no different than… well, just about everything else in EVE (another thing that makes mission such an anomaly, btw).
Quote: But in this case the balance it too far in favor of the Ninja because while they can and do disrupt the game play of others there really isn't anything anyone can do in return to disrupt their game play.
Yes, this is very much the key point here: I, and many with me, think there is quite a lot you can do and by the very admission of many (if not most) of the mission runners, it rather seems like "the problem" is that they don't want to actually use any of these methods – instead, they want to have mechanical protection from the rest of the game for no good reason.
Quote: Your complaint that people calling for the MR to have be the one to choose whether or not combat should take place is inane. The reason that the MR needs to be the one to make the choice about whether combat takes place is because allowing the Ninja to make that choice would bring mission running to a standstill.
I think you missed the point I was making: what I'm objecting to is the idea that the MR should be in full control of every aspect of his mission area. The whinging from MRs come from the fact that salvaging does not work that way – it's one of the few elements where you cannot decide to "trigger" the event in any way (although, as mentioned, you have a fair bit of control over the circumstances that leads up to it), which is inherent with any competitive activity. So whether it's ship combat or not is of less relevance: it's the power of that event trigger that is key point. MRs don't like that they have no control over it right now and what that changed.
But why should this change happen? They are the ones who have chosen to partake in this competitive side-activity, and they already have numerous advantages over their opponent – why on earth do they need this as well? Especially since, when squeezed about it, it turns out that they want to see a change because they don't actually want to compete at all.
At the end of the day, it boils down to people not being able to understand that they are engaged in two separate activities at once, each with its own rule set, and each with its own risk/reward balance, and then complaining that the imaginary combination of the two looks different than the separate parts. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Mari Seles
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Posted - 2010.04.15 08:45:00 -
[158]
I like it when Ninja salvagers show up in my missions.
Seeing them scramble from wreck to wreck when I shoot the wrecks.
Ok sometimes he gets a wreck. So what, it's still fun. And isn't that more important than isk made?
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Ashalin Tora
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Posted - 2010.04.15 10:42:00 -
[159]
This seems like a nice enough thread for a small question related to the topic. If I spot someone salvaging the wrecks which are labeled mine for the time being, and if I were to shoot said salvager, could he bring his corp and mini-blob me? ___________
Thorsteinn D. |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 10:50:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Ashalin Tora If I spot someone salvaging the wrecks which are labeled mine for the time being, and if I were to shoot said salvager, could he bring his corp and mini-blob me?
Depends on where it happens.
In highsec, no, because CONCORD would nuke you for trying before they could get there, and if you actually succeed, only he gets kill rights for the illegal attack on your part. In lowsec, no, because again, only he would get the kill rights (but in both instances, he could just bring them along for various remote support functions). In nullsec, yes, because you're free to shoot up the place any way you like (but he'd would also not get any kill rights and couldn't pursue you into low/highsec). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.04.15 12:16:00 -
[161]
http://www.rainymood.com/
6 pages, sigh.
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Mr SmartGuy
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Posted - 2010.04.15 12:27:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Mr SmartGuy on 15/04/2010 12:34:35 oh, man... Another one of those ninja whiners. Wrecks are floating pieces of junk... like asteroids. Would you whine if someone gets in "your" belt and starts mining the rock you spotted first?
P.S. Hey, talking about generic theme whiners, it would be nice to have copy-paste responces to such threads... Like "wall of text" ones that would make the original whining post useless :D |
Ashalin Tora
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Posted - 2010.04.15 13:07:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ashalin Tora If I spot someone salvaging the wrecks which are labeled mine for the time being, and if I were to shoot said salvager, could he bring his corp and mini-blob me?
Depends on where it happens.
In highsec, no, because CONCORD would nuke you for trying before they could get there, and if you actually succeed, only he gets kill rights for the illegal attack on your part. In lowsec, no, because again, only he would get the kill rights (but in both instances, he could just bring them along for various remote support functions). In nullsec, yes, because you're free to shoot up the place any way you like (but he'd would also not get any kill rights and couldn't pursue you into low/highsec).
Thanks. I thought that you would get the right to shoot a ninja if he was tampering with your wrecks. ___________
Thorsteinn D. |
Rellik B00n
Minmatar Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2010.04.15 13:22:00 -
[164]
I remember the miners asking for can flagging so I vote to let mission runners have salvagers flagged purely for the high lol value.
However this from the first page does have a game mechanic point that could use addressing:
Originally by: Drenan
Ok, so nobody owns empty 'yellow wrecks'? ...so what happens to me if I shoot one of these 'ownerless' wrecks in highsec?
Just sayin...... + LDSkill+hireLDS |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.04.15 13:31:00 -
[165]
/signed
I think salvaging should result PVP flagging, ala jetcan mining and how miners used to want ore thieves to be flagged to them (didn't turn out so well for the miners, did it?)
Doing my part to keep this thread bumped, enjoying the smackfest at work.
Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2010.04.15 13:36:00 -
[166]
i di have a great long post about this theni realised it boiled down to 'What Tippia Said Already'
Also for those saying it should flag the ninjas, what is the main purpose of canflipping?? Now apply to this scenario and realise what youre asking for.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 14:09:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Tippia on 15/04/2010 14:11:05
Originally by: Ashalin Tora Thanks. I thought that you would get the right to shoot a ninja if he was tampering with your wrecks.
He only gets flagged if he tampers with the your cans, contained in the free-for-all wrecks. Originally by: Rellik B00n
Originally by: Drenan Ok, so nobody owns empty 'yellow wrecks'? ...so what happens to me if I shoot one of these 'ownerless' wrecks in highsec?
Just sayin......
That goes for you as well: if you shoot the free-for-all wreck, you're also attacking a container owned by someone else. The latter gets you nuked. Yes, it could be addressed by having empty wrecks automatically turn blue, but that's a functionality we got in the last patch that only now leave us with a way to go. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.04.15 14:42:00 -
[168]
Originally by: lollerwaffle /signed
I think salvaging should result PVP flagging, ala jetcan mining and how miners used to want ore thieves to be flagged to them (didn't turn out so well for the miners, did it?)
Doing my part to keep this thread bumped, enjoying the smackfest at work.
Ok I've seen this argument made several times but I really don't get the point.
As I understand it the original state was Jet can's were FFA so anyone could come by and swipe a miners jetcan with no consequence. After the change People can still swipe can but at least the miner has the Option of engaging (even if the smart ones don't take it.)
So how exactly is the new system any worse for the miners than the older?
At worse it is the same at best it allows the smart miners to bait and kill fail flippers. Sure you'll get some newbie miners who will engage in fights they should have avoided but that seems to be a part of learning the game.
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Rellik B00n
Minmatar Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2010.04.15 14:47:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
At worse it is the same at best it allows the smart miners to bait and kill fail flippers. Sure you'll get some newbie miners who will engage in fights they should have avoided but that seems to be a part of learning the game.
More of a 'needed to be there' thing tbh, you are correct in that the situation is better than before however:
There was a huge period of moaning about people stealing with no chance for miners jetting to fight back. This was followed by a huge period of moaning by miners that agressed a flashy and got wasted.
Very similar to the current situation. As a retired can-flipper I pray everyday that some at CCP goes "ah to hell with it make it flag em"
+ LDSkill+hireLDS |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:12:00 -
[170]
Ok..Tippia I was going to rip apart your posts..but im not going to waste my time.My opinion..your a troll..and a pretty good one at that cuz for a sec,you got me.
There are no "free for all wrecks".If they are free for all..why do you get concorded for shoting a wreck I killed?And why can I shoot it and not get concorded?Because its my wreck..like the name on it clearly states.Period.
Skex...I see the situation,and the game exactly like you do.For those who still dont understand read his posts on page 5..they explain it perfectly.
And this is not a MR's whine..I have never been ninja salvaged once..and I mission in all the mission hubs.Like skex said..they dont attack people who can fight back.I got someone into this game..she started runing lvl4 and in the first week..she got ninja salvaged 2-3 times.And in the same systems that I mission in.So its the new players that the griefers are after.
So I log on..got a bookmark from her.The ninja then warps to the station..waits for his counter to go down,and comes back only to salvage the rest in my face.And I cant do a thing about it.All this mission runner wants is aggro..nothing else.Then we will see what a cearbear can do.And even if I lose..or get setup,its my own problem.I choose to attack.
And the only people who disagree..are griefers.They would be the only ones who would lose something if this would change.So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:28:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Joe Skellington on 15/04/2010 15:29:31 I don't mind if they salvage my wrecks, what I mind is when they loot the wreck of its contents and they aren't "flashing" red, but just red (this confuses me). I'm sure it's for me to aggress them so that their hidden gang of corpmate gankers can come in and blow me up.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:29:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Tippia on 15/04/2010 15:30:44
Originally by: HeIIfire11 There are no "free for all wrecks".If they are free for all..why do you get concorded for shoting a wreck I killed?And why can I shoot it and not get concorded?Because its my wreck..like the name on it clearly states.Period.
Incorrect and already explained.
Quote: they dont attack people who can fight back.
More correctly, they don't attack people at all.
Quote: So I log on..got a bookmark from her.The ninja then warps to the station..waits for his counter to go down,and comes back only to salvage the rest in my face.And I cant do a thing about it
This makes little to no sense. What counter? You wouldn't have been able to do anything about it anyway.
Quote: So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
You don't have to wait – you already have your answer (but it's not the one you think it is, mainly because your premise is entirely incorrect).
Originally by: Joe Skellington I don't mind if they salvage my wrecks, what I mind is when they loot the wreck of its contents and they aren't "flashing" red, but just red (this confuses me).
Set up your overview to make it less confusing to you then.
Quote: I'm sure it's for me to aggress them so that their hidden gang of corpmate gankers can come in and blow me up.
Can't happen – learn the aggression rules. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Riedle
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:31:00 -
[173]
Quote: Ok..Tippia I was going to rip apart your posts..but im not going to waste my time.My opinion..your a troll..and a pretty good one at that cuz for a sec,you got me.
Your an idiot. Tippia explained the rules to you clearly and patiently. Your only whine here is that you want less competition. You don't want pvp, you don't like the salvagers taking what you wrongly think, is your salvage. You want to play a single player game. We can't help you as EVE is not a single player game.
Quote: And this is not a MR's whine..I have never been ninja salvaged once..and I mission in all the mission hubs.Like skex said..they dont attack people who can fight back.I got someone into this game..she started runing lvl4 and in the first week..she got ninja salvaged 2-3 times.And in the same systems that I mission in.So its the new players that the griefers are after.
Yes, yes it is a MR's whine. lol You don't want competition and are asking CCP to remove competition for you.
Quote: So I log on..got a bookmark from her.The ninja then warps to the station..waits for his counter to go down,and comes back only to salvage the rest in my face.And I cant do a thing about it.All this mission runner wants is aggro..nothing else.Then we will see what a cearbear can do.And even if I lose..or get setup,its my own problem.I choose to attack.
Why would the ninja have a 'count down' if they were just salvaging? Answer: They wouldn't they were obviously looting too. Your friend could have already shot that ninja and CHOSE not to. Boo hoo.
Quote: And the only people who disagree..are griefers.They would be the only ones who would lose something if this would change.So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
Where is it you mission? I will come out of 0.0 and salvage and loot all of your missions for you. I will also have nothing larger than a BC in my hanger. How does that sound?
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:43:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Riedle
Quote: Ok..Tippia I was going to rip apart your posts..but im not going to waste my time.My opinion..your a troll..and a pretty good one at that cuz for a sec,you got me.
Your an idiot. Tippia explained the rules to you clearly and patiently. Your only whine here is that you want less competition. You don't want pvp, you don't like the salvagers taking what you wrongly think, is your salvage. You want to play a single player game. We can't help you as EVE is not a single player game.
Quote: And this is not a MR's whine..I have never been ninja salvaged once..and I mission in all the mission hubs.Like skex said..they dont attack people who can fight back.I got someone into this game..she started runing lvl4 and in the first week..she got ninja salvaged 2-3 times.And in the same systems that I mission in.So its the new players that the griefers are after.
Yes, yes it is a MR's whine. lol You don't want competition and are asking CCP to remove competition for you.
Quote: So I log on..got a bookmark from her.The ninja then warps to the station..waits for his counter to go down,and comes back only to salvage the rest in my face.And I cant do a thing about it.All this mission runner wants is aggro..nothing else.Then we will see what a cearbear can do.And even if I lose..or get setup,its my own problem.I choose to attack.
Why would the ninja have a 'count down' if they were just salvaging? Answer: They wouldn't they were obviously looting too. Your friend could have already shot that ninja and CHOSE not to. Boo hoo.
Quote: And the only people who disagree..are griefers.They would be the only ones who would lose something if this would change.So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
Where is it you mission? I will come out of 0.0 and salvage and loot all of your missions for you. I will also have nothing larger than a BC in my hanger. How does that sound?
Can you read?I dont want a sp game..i want aggro.And im in isinoka...anytime.
Originally by: Tippia I'm sure it's for me to aggress them so that their hidden gang of corpmate gankers can come in and blow me up.
I never said that
Im done with this post..have fun trolling it
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:46:00 -
[175]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 I never said that
Learn to understand quoting.
Quote: Im done with this post..have fun trolling it
You've been done, what, four times now? So no. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:47:00 -
[176]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
there is half a dozen statements from the developers of this game about this topic and they all state that YOU ARE WRONG. so what exactly are "we" waiting for?
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:57:00 -
[177]
Originally by: chrisss0r Edited by: chrisss0r on 15/04/2010 15:48:38
Originally by: HeIIfire11 So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
there is half a dozen statements from the developers of this game about this topic and they all state that YOU ARE WRONG. so what exactly are "we" waiting for?
The best result you will get out of this might be an official "whine some more" statement by a dev.
While CCP is clear on their stance that salvaging is not intended for griefing and is a mini profession, that certainly does not mean there aren't people using the mechanic to grief. They have come into this thread telling you directly and they do it in game. There simply is no denying that there are many grieving ninja salvagers in this game.
to answer the statement you quoted however, I am pretty sure CCP intends to support both. As I mentioned earlier griever money spends the same. No pvp game is griever free. CCP is throwing them a bone. a small bone to get their 15 bucks. Throwing them a big bone would be allowing ninja looting with no aggression. They obviously thought better of that. This is clearly a signature. |
chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.04.15 16:00:00 -
[178]
Edited by: chrisss0r on 15/04/2010 16:02:16
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: chrisss0r Edited by: chrisss0r on 15/04/2010 15:48:38
Originally by: HeIIfire11 So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
there is half a dozen statements from the developers of this game about this topic and they all state that YOU ARE WRONG. so what exactly are "we" waiting for?
The best result you will get out of this might be an official "whine some more" statement by a dev.
While CCP is clear on their stance that salvaging is not intended for griefing and is a mini profession, that certainly does not mean there aren't people using the mechanic to grief. They have come into this thread telling you directly and they do it in game. There simply is no denying that there are many grieving ninja salvagers in this game.
That is who.re****. CCP have stated that there is nothing wrong with salvaging AS IT IS. So if you get griefed by it thats entirely your problem. If i get "griefed" by people flying a moa because that ship is totally ugly that does not imply that ccp should look into instapopping everyone undocking in a moa in my vicinit because it was "not intended for griefing"
btw: they inplemented a clever way to drive down the server load while introducing a new mechanic (rigs) to the game. Saying salvaging is there to toss griefers a bone is kinda stoooooopid
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.15 16:14:00 -
[179]
Originally by: chrisss0r Edited by: chrisss0r on 15/04/2010 16:02:16
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: chrisss0r Edited by: chrisss0r on 15/04/2010 15:48:38
Originally by: HeIIfire11 So all we can do is wait and see if its the griefers ccp wants to support or the rest.
there is half a dozen statements from the developers of this game about this topic and they all state that YOU ARE WRONG. so what exactly are "we" waiting for?
The best result you will get out of this might be an official "whine some more" statement by a dev.
While CCP is clear on their stance that salvaging is not intended for griefing and is a mini profession, that certainly does not mean there aren't people using the mechanic to grief. They have come into this thread telling you directly and they do it in game. There simply is no denying that there are many grieving ninja salvagers in this game.
That is who.re****. CCP have stated that there is nothing wrong with salvaging AS IT IS. So if you get griefed by it thats entirely your problem. If i get "griefed" by people flying a moa because that ship is totally ugly that does not imply that ccp should look into instapopping everyone undocking in a moa in my vicinit because it was "not intended for griefing"
btw: they inplemented a clever way to drive down the server load while introducing a new mechanic (rigs) to the game. Saying salvaging is there to toss griefers a bone is kinda stoooooopid
Definitions of Griefing on the Web:
* A griefer is a player who plays a multiplayer video game to irritate and harass other players, rather than in pursuit of game objectives. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefing
So when they don't sell the salvage they are griefing according to the definition, and they do that plenty.
This is clearly a signature. |
Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.04.15 16:16:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 15/04/2010 16:20:11 Edited by: Skex Relbore on 15/04/2010 16:18:58 These threads always boil down to pretty much the same thing. The defenders of the status quo like to quote CCP devs and explain what we all already know.
Which is that under the current mechanics and rules salvage from wrecks is FFA.
Ok we get that. I understand fully what the current meechanic and policy is.
I just disagree with it.
What I ask for is an argument in support of it that has more substance than "CCP Says so"
Tippia admittedly does offer an alternative which basically boils down to "I think mission runners should suffer" why Tippia hates mission runners so much I don't understand but at least it's an argument (not a very good one but better that a simple appeal to authority)
Meanwhile those who support changing the current system have offer a number of arguments including the following.
The current mechanic is inconsistent with the rest of the game which generally encourages conflict resolution through the use of guns and missiles.
Wrecks only exist by virtue of the efforts of the Mission runners. There for they should be considered property of said mission runner because they are spoils of war.
Wrecks are marked as owned and destroying a wreck that doesn't belong to you will result in Concordorken.
It would result in more Hi-Sec Pew Pew.
Ninja Salvaging should have more risk than the possibility of warping into Recon 3(it's currently possibly the least risky activity to engage in short of station spinning.)
That Ninja Salvaging is primarily a griefing mechanic and should not be consequence free.
Tear filled rageposts from mission runners who loose their multi-billion isk faction fit mission boats because they decided to engage a Ninja.
Tear filled rageposts from Ninja's after they get ganked by PVPers pretending to be Mission running Carebears.
The resulting destruction would reduce the supply of minerals and goods in the game helping the economy.
In fact I fail to see why any of the so called "hard-core PVP" crowd would object to such a change more destruction, more pretty explosions, and more tears. what's not to like?
Then again maybe they aren't as "hard-core" as they pretend.
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