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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Will you at least concede that the situation is ridiculous?
That's what you get for parking yourself firmly under the jurisdiction of Senate and becoming a Federal whipping boy.
The Federation has always been too spineless to question CONCORD's motives and regulations, and has always been the ***** of the DED.
As for the situation in Intaki, from their point of view they're simply making a stand against being kicked around from pillar to post like some runt of the litter half-breed race.
I can't blame them at all. The Senate is utterly hopeless and Roden is too busy beating off over how awesome he is now that he's President to make any form of meaningful public address.
I wish the Intaki people the best of luck in liberating themselves, to be honest.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:21:00 -
[32]
Verone, Andreus, take your personality conflict somewhere else. This is an ongoing humanitarian crisis in an active warzone with little to no clarification regarding Ishukone military activity within the Intaki starsystem.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:25:00 -
[33]
What, so you're saying the Federation should withdraw from CONCORD and make itself fair game for any Tom, **** and Harry that comes waltzing into its space with a Titan and decides to glass a planet? Might I remind you that the same "spinelessness" applies to all four empires, since they all abide by this ridiculous state of affairs?
Or are you simply trolling? -----
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Verone, Andreus, take your personality conflict somewhere else. This is an ongoing humanitarian crisis in an active warzone with little to no clarification regarding Ishukone military activity within the Intaki starsystem.
You're sorely mistaken if you think I have issues with Andreus. If I had issues with him, they could have been put to rest quite literally a long time ago.
Yet again, your lack of coherence when speaking trips you up. It seems to happen every time you speak. You should probably check your facts before engaging your jaw.
I'm simply debating the current state of affairs.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Or are you simply trolling?
No, you know as well as I do that I'm giving you my personal opinion with respect to my experience during my service with Federal Forces before becoming independant.
To brand me as a "trolling" simply because you can't construct a reasonable and coherent response to my points, which are wholly based on hard fact, is a weak attempt at ending the argument.
Let me end it for you, so that you don't have to reduce yourself to that level.
I've said my piece, and offer yourself and "General" Soter the best of luck in further wasting your efforts to retake systems that your superiors obviously don't give a rats ass about.
Have fun.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:42:00 -
[36]
Mr. Verone, if there was no personality conflict between you two, then there would not be roughly ten unique messages from both parties on this particular IGS thread. I take no issue with you specifically, but I would like us to focus on the present crisis rather than your more general discussion about the situation within the Federation or the nature of Andreus's discourse.
Andreus, I suggest you step away. There are more important things at stake here.
I have reconfirmed the existence of Ishukone military craft inside the Intaki system. I ask again for the Assembly to comment on the nature of this forces and whether or not they give us clearance to engage.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Mr. Verone, if there was no personality conflict between you two, then there would not be roughly ten unique messages from both parties on this particular IGS thread. I take no issue with you specifically, but I would like us to focus on the present crisis rather than your more general discussion about the situation within the Federation or the nature of Andreus's discourse.
Andreus, I suggest you step away. There are more important things at stake here.
I have reconfirmed the existence of Ishukone military craft inside the Intaki system. I ask again for the Assembly to comment on the nature of this forces and whether or not they give us clearance to engage.
Ishukone are there because they paid to be there when the State "auctioned" off the system, valid in the Federation's eyes or not.
You should be thankful that they're moving supplies, and tending to the Intaki people rather than putting down dropships packed with MTACs and marines.
The Intaki Assembly obviously want them there, given their apparent co-operation with Ishukone personnel. Besides, Ishukone appears to be doing more for the Intaki people than the Federation have done for months.
Riddle me this : Ishukone bring food, supplies and assistance to the Intaki people, the Federation turn up with gunships and strike craft, wanting to be given access to the system.
Who are the more useful to the Intaki people, in the current situation?
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:04:00 -
[38]
Nothing the Federation would or could do would ever please you, Verone - they could park a Titan and a fleet the size of the one they killed the Kador fleet with in the system and vaporise anyone who came into the system and looked at them funny and you'd accuse them of iron-fisted tyranny! They could offer Intaki independence and you'd call them weak-willed! They could put every citizen in the Federation at risk by leaving CONCORD and you'd call them irresponsible! They could destroy the Titan in Luminaire and you'd call them monstrous despots! They could launch a massive counter-offensive against the State and you'd call them imperialist! They could sue for peace with the State and you'd call them spineless!
They could summon your bloody idol Jirai Laitanen out of hiding to dance the haka for you on your favourite table at the Last Gate in a G-string bikini woven from a lock of Jamyl Sarum's hair and YOU'D ACCUSE THEM OF WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY! -----
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Nothing the Federation would or could do would ever please you, Verone - they could park a Titan and a fleet the size of the one they killed the Kador fleet with in the system and vaporise anyone who came into the system and looked at them funny and you'd accuse them of iron-fisted tyranny! They could offer Intaki independence and you'd call them weak-willed! They could put every citizen in the Federation at risk by leaving CONCORD and you'd call them irresponsible! They could destroy the Titan in Luminaire and you'd call them monstrous despots! They could launch a massive counter-offensive against the State and you'd call them imperialist! They could sue for peace with the State and you'd call them spineless!
They could summon your bloody idol Jirai Laitanen out of hiding to dance the haka for you on your favourite table at the Last Gate in a G-string bikini woven from a lock of Jamyl Sarum's hair and YOU'D ACCUSE THEM OF WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY!
Actually, you're wrong, on quite a few of those points. As always you assume far too much.
And as for my idol... believe me, Laitanen isn't him.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:43:00 -
[40]
The Auction has utterly no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any organization in the CONCORD area of jurisdiction. CONCORD did not recognize the auction results, nor did the Federation, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Angels, Guristas, Serpentis, SOE, or any other minor municipality or sovereignty.
The State created what in effect was a de facto suzerainty inside the occupied systems, administrated by the nation's client megacorporations and attendant paramilitary organizations. This was under a wartime occupation and an expansive military campaign. There is no legal obligation from any entity towards the agreements generated between the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Megacorporations.
Nothing about this has any connection to popular sovereignty of the lowsec systems in question. There is extensive evidence that there was military invasion of a number of inhabited worlds within the Occupied Zone, and martial law was utilized to control the population.
The situation specifically inside Intaki appears to be that the Ishukone Corporation is siding with the Federation rather than with the State. The Caldari Navy detachment within the system has been annihilated, and the Federation navy has posted picket fleets to ensure no incursion occurs again, as fitting with the Assembly's wishes.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Julianus Soter The Auction has utterly no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any organization in the CONCORD area of jurisdiction. CONCORD did not recognize the auction results, nor did the Federation, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Angels, Guristas, Serpentis, SOE, or any other minor municipality or sovereignty.
The State created what in effect was a de facto suzerainty inside the occupied systems, administrated by the nation's client megacorporations and attendant paramilitary organizations. This was under a wartime occupation and an expansive military campaign. There is no legal obligation from any entity towards the agreements generated between the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Megacorporations.
Nothing about this has any connection to popular sovereignty of the lowsec systems in question. There is extensive evidence that there was military invasion of a number of inhabited worlds within the Occupied Zone, and martial law was utilized to control the population.
The situation specifically inside Intaki appears to be that the Ishukone Corporation is siding with the Federation rather than with the State. The Caldari Navy detachment within the system has been annihilated, and the Federation navy has posted picket fleets to ensure no incursion occurs again, as fitting with the Assembly's wishes.
You didn't answer my question. It's okay though, feel free to avoid my point completely.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:55:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/03/2010 21:54:59 As I've grown tired of explaining, it's vital not to confuse the function of the auction with its intent.
The auction served as a mechanic for apportioning responsibility for the oversight of occupied territories to State organisations. The equivalent process in the Federation would have been a... committee or a QUANGO (Quasi-Autonomous Non-Government Organization)
it's a simple, practical solution entirely appropriate to the corporate-capitalist paradigm of Caldari society. There was no malice involved in the auction, no implication that people were being purchased and sold. It was purely administrative. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.05 22:08:00 -
[43]
Local garrison perhaps? Intaki piloted vessels still using the Federation engine signature markers? |
Jon Engel
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Julianus Soter The Auction has utterly no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any organization in the CONCORD area of jurisdiction. CONCORD did not recognize the auction results, nor did the Federation, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Angels, Guristas, Serpentis, SOE, or any other minor municipality or sovereignty.
The State created what in effect was a de facto suzerainty inside the occupied systems, administrated by the nation's client megacorporations and attendant paramilitary organizations. This was under a wartime occupation and an expansive military campaign. There is no legal obligation from any entity towards the agreements generated between the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Megacorporations.
Nothing about this has any connection to popular sovereignty of the lowsec systems in question. There is extensive evidence that there was military invasion of a number of inhabited worlds within the Occupied Zone, and martial law was utilized to control the population.
The situation specifically inside Intaki appears to be that the Ishukone Corporation is siding with the Federation rather than with the State. The Caldari Navy detachment within the system has been annihilated, and the Federation navy has posted picket fleets to ensure no incursion occurs again, as fitting with the Assembly's wishes.
You didn't answer my question. It's okay though, feel free to avoid my point completely.
He does that a lot.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:13:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jon Engel He does that a lot.
I've noticed.
Congratulations on the situation by the way. Feel free to stop by The Last Gate for a celebratory drink sometime.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Lucius Vindictus
Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Local garrison perhaps? Intaki piloted vessels still using the Federation engine signature markers?
This would make sense. No one can change those overnight. Yet, I wonder if that is the case. Much seems unclear still.
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John Tanashima
Caldari ICS-762 Drunken Butterflies
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Posted - 2010.03.06 06:44:00 -
[47]
I have received no orders to shoot at any federal navy or FDU ships in the system, I suppose that under the Militia Act, tactical sites and strategic Navy forces are explicitly allowed by the Assembly, and that it is only the S&S forces that were turned back peacefully.
As my CONCORD databases remind me, Intaki is still a federal system, and it is still under Federal military control as far as external system defenses are involved, only internal police forces, customs and civilian infrastructure units are rejected under the S&S contract with the Legion and Ishukone.
As for the Ishukone Watch ships, If you have reasons to believe that they assist the STPRO in any way, please try to use legal means to contest their presence... after all, unfounded accusations of 'stripping the station bare', 'sucking the oxygen out of the Intaki atmosphere' and others wild rumors have already been heard about Ishukone, and both Fedmart and some stateside competitors may have interests in running those rumors.
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Chell Charon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.03.06 21:15:00 -
[48]
People seem to be jumping into big assumptions here.
There is only one area where the results of the Auction are binding. State and State controlled areas.
However assuming that CONCORD sanctioned mechanics of militias, will for now and evermore keep Intaki under the Federations flag, seems to me an excample of unwarranted optimism. -Even when only considering the militias impact on the politics of the area.
Intaki could welcome Federation military assets and corporations into trading with them. However if and when fortunes of war favour the State they will have to deal with Ishukone.
Before the Auction steals the show here, even if it had not been held Intaki would have to deal with changed circumstances. Least of which certainly not being the changes in security services providers.
Using Mordus Legion as a security asset keeps both State and Federation military forces out under current circumstances. Since it apparently is Intaki Assambly fronting the bill to Mordus Legion and with Ishukone happy with the arrangement one can get certain conclusions here.
I put forth the notion that despite the ebb and flow of the "faction war" Intaki Assambly has elected a set of contracts and policies offering the best realistic level of stability for the Intaki people. And while stability for some of us may be something of a curse word, generally it is favored state for the industrialist and artist. Realpolitik, when you recognize the difference between ideal and the real world. |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.07 00:23:00 -
[49]
I respect Intaki's freedom on choice on this but I do have to ask why and why shortly after their liberation? Thousands will have been killed aboard the FDU's ships in an attempt to rid the area of the occupying forces and on the day of liberation Intaki seams to defect to the state, a serious slap in the face to the Federation. I assume Intaki will still be wanting Federation aid to help repair any damage caused by the occupation and subsequent liberation.
It wouldn't surprise me if there's far more going on here than we know about, Foirtan the Intaki president has "vanished", Ishukone's unexplained only bid being on the most difficult system to develop in anyway, Roden's rise to power, no communications from the government, the faint reports of the state militia's leadership breaking down and now Intaki's move towards Caldari co-operation. Perhaps Intaki will leave the Federation, perhaps Ishukone will leave the state.... Who knows....
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Sumerio Rayej
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
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Posted - 2010.03.07 05:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Julianus Soter However, it seems Ishukone Corporation paramilitary vessels are still located in the system, specifically Caracal-class escort cruisers in orbit of the Intaki 5-5 station: holo.
Moira. vessels have destroyed these ships as they are not allowed to operate within the Intaki Assembly jurisdiction as dictated by the contract.
Speaking of miscommunication and unecessary loss of life, you guys need to stop shooting at these Ishukone vessels. Just because they are combat-class ships doesn't make them military or "para-military", which would be a fitting description only if they were navy or Ishukone Watch ships. They are civilian escort vessels. You're badly interpreting the will of the Assembly, here, and you're going to make the situation worse. Mordu's Legion may be providing security for the Intaki system, itself, but Ishukone is well within its rights to send escorts to guard its convoys, even into the Intaki system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
View the Intaki Homeworld Webcam at www.ilfcorp.com |
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Hussain
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.03.07 05:21:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Chell Charon People seem to be jumping into big assumptions here.
Using Mordus Legion as a security asset keeps both State and Federation military forces out under current circumstances. And while stability for some of us may be something of a curse word, generally it is favored state for the industrialist and artist.
Well if you do honestly believe in neutrality from Mordus Legion than you must be either missinformed or doing cheap propaganda.
Mordus Legion is owned to 35% by the Caldari Navy.
Do you really think they will keep the Caldari forces away from Intaki ?
Someone said this is a slap in the face of the Federation, thats true but its also a very big security concern.
The Intaki Assembly either choose to disregard this fact or is making a statement, either case I dont like it but their will should be respected.
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.07 08:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hussain
Originally by: Chell Charon Do you really think they will keep the Caldari forces away from Intaki ?
It is not their job to keep the STPRO from the system. That is still the responsibility of the Federal Navy, who are manning the defensive sites within Intaki.
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Vechtor
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.07 15:03:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Verone
The Senate stood by and watched the Caldari occupy Intaki without lifting a finger, or deploying a single vessel from the Federation Navy.
Intaki isn't just another system, it houses the homeworld and heritage of an entire race, a race that thought it would be protected and assisted by the Senate due to being a part of the Gallente Federation. Whether the ownership is valid or not, the Senate stood by and let the system, and the very land that heritage is built on be auctioned off to a Stateside megacorporation.
Instead of coming to assist when the Federal Defense Union was at its weakest, the Federal administration turned its back on the Intaki people, and their homeworld by simply silencing their voices in the Presidential Elections, and pretending the problem didn't exist rather than working pro-actively to assist their people.
The Assembly is doing what it knows is best, showing that the Intaki people have the strength, and the resolve to stand on their own two feet without having to be the bastard-child of the Federation.
Honestly, after they were hung out to dry, cut off and had their voting rights in a DEMOCRATIC system of government revoked, what other response did anyone expect?
Souro Foiritan was an imbecile for making that call.
Power to the people, I say.
**** the Federation.
I believe no one could have been so clear and effective in summarizing what I feel on this subject and what this subject truly represents. Congratulations.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2010.03.07 15:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hussain [...
The Intaki Assembly either choose to disregard this fact or is making a statement, either case I dont like it but their will should be respected.
That assumes that the Intaki Assembly accurately represents the will of the people as it is only the assent of the governed that gives any government the right to exist. During times of occupation it is impossible for any government to represent the will of the people to the same extent as during times of peace. For myself, a lasting peace, free and fair elections, and a stable government that includes the rights of the governed in its very warp and weave are required before any government's decisions should be respected as the default position.
Peace first, then politicking on the part of the Intaki Assembly.
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Hussain
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.03.07 16:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Vincent Death
Originally by: Hussain
Originally by: Chell Charon Do you really think they will keep the Caldari forces away from Intaki ?
It is not their job to keep the STPRO from the system. That is still the responsibility of the Federal Navy, who are manning the defensive sites within Intaki.
Sorry what Federal Navy ? That one that the Assembly says that is "neither required, nor welcome" or are we talking of another Federal Navy I dont know of ?
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.07 18:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hussain Sorry what Federal Navy ? That one that the Assembly says that is "neither required, nor welcome" or are we talking of another Federal Navy I dont know of ?
The Federal Navy that are in the system defending it from capsuleers like me who are intent on killing them. Despite the propaganda and politics they are still there.
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Lief Siddhe
Siddhean Inc. Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.07 21:37:00 -
[57]
The whole point of these announcements is that you immortal kids should go back to shooting each other until eternity and leave the non-capsuleer ships in Intaki alone, as they're currently operating under approval by the Intaki Assembly.
_____ I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.08 00:11:00 -
[58]
Only a specific set of ships are approved. Another set are specifically not approved. We'll help kill them since I doubt the Mordus enforcers will engage - and even if they do they probably won't have enough firepower to do the job right.
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Caellach Marellus
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Verone Souro Foiritan was an imbecile for making that call.
I think that was the status quo for the last several months of his time in power. --------------------------------------
All commentary unless explicitly stated remains the personal views of Caellach Marellus and do not necessarily represent that of his Corporation or Alliance |
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