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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 08:27:00 -
[1]
The events of today have left many capsuleers who have fought the Caldari in Intaki aghast.
According to official reports here, the Intaki Assembly has turned away the Federation Navy forces sent to secure the system following the destruction of State forces inside the system.
To many direct participants in the warfare in the region, this seemed nonsensical. The arrangement made in Intaki was based on the invasion by State forces and the occupation of their space. The contract itself was signed while in a situation of military occupation, blockade, and jammed communications.
Furthermore, the Auction made in Federation space has no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any non-State entity, sovereign or otherwise. The Intaki were made to cooperate due to a well-publicized military blockade on all transportation in and out of the system, a blockade that was replaced with an Ishukone-run monopoly and enforced with renowned hired-guns Mordus.
However, this situation is becoming even more complicated, as I personally witnessed what should not be possible.
This image seems to contradict the news reports that, quote, "The Federation Navy relief force assigned to re-establish control of the Intaki system was denied access to the Intaki stargate in Agoze".
Indeed, as far as can be told, the Federation Navy has taken full control of all security within the system.
This confusion could lead to a rapidly escalating situation that might cause mass loss of life. As such, Moira. Corporation immediately demands official comment from the Federation Navy, the Intaki Assembly, the Ishukone Corporation, the Mordus Legion Command, and the Senate regarding the present situation in the Intaki system.
This must be done quickly. If there is no resolution to the situation, there may be full-scale war between various interests within the system with little to no recourse to establish stability and protect civilians.
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Kretin Arnon
Amarr Path of the Immortals
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Posted - 2010.03.05 09:21:00 -
[2]
You know, long ago when the Blood Raider Covenant held sovereignty in The Bleak Lands, most of the sentry guns in the constellation was owned by CONCORD.
I don't remember me crying like a little girl about that. +--------------------------+ For now I sleep and watch |
Corelous Alterrian
Amarr Beyond Evil and Good United Star Federation
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Posted - 2010.03.05 09:42:00 -
[3]
They were red, You should have shot them :)
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 10:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Furthermore, the Auction made in Federation space has no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any non-State entity, sovereign or otherwise. The Intaki were made to cooperate due to a well-publicized military blockade on all transportation in and out of the system, a blockade that was replaced with an Ishukone-run monopoly and enforced with renowned hired-guns Mordus.
I am not a lawyer, so I have no comment as to the legal situation. One thing I would like to know, if, as you say, the Intaki government was under duress when they signed the agreement. Why did they make the decision to continue with it when they know perfectly well that they could get out of it with ease?
Seems to me, that your suppositions may be off...
Personally, I would like to congratulate the Intaki government for their bravery and I support whatever decision they come to in the future.
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.05 12:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hooch Flux Seems to me, that your suppositions may be off...
Once more Juliannus Soter produces dubious claims with not a single shred of evidence to back them up. Is anyone surprised by this anymore?
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Alain Colcer
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2010.03.05 14:20:00 -
[6]
As Captain Soter requests, and i conccur, it is extremely important that the Intaki Assembly addresses the public and explains their decision. The Federation Navy is bound to serve the Government and the Federal Administration, so in my view it is better they do not escalate this situation into hostilities of any kind and wait for further instructions.
However, i also appeal to the few Federation representatives and politicians who are now in Intaki to contact the Assembly, the citizens, the people. It is important to bring all issues and claims from Intaki Assembly to the Senate and the Federal Administration, so they can be resolved using the proper methods.
Clarification: This message represents my personal opinion and in no way represents STRIX corporation.
Alain Colcer Talon Wing 3rd Class Operator
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hooch Flux
Why did they make the decision to continue with it when they know perfectly well that they could get out of it with ease?
Perhaps their families could be threatened by Intaki Liberation Front members or Mordus enforcers? Instead of using outright force as they did the first time Intaki was removed from Federation control, perhaps they are using the organized crime approach this time?
Honestly, this makes absolutely no sense and is very puzzling indeed. The Intaki Assembly is honoring an illegal contract that is against the will of the vast majority of Intaki citizens. Even the Intaki Liberation Front has conceded that vast majority of Intaki citizens want to remain part of the Federation.
Puzzling times indeed. Conspiracy theorists are having a field day with this development. And this time they all may be right. ??
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kretin Arnon You know, long ago when the Blood Raider Covenant held sovereignty in The Bleak Lands, most of the sentry guns in the constellation was owned by CONCORD.
I don't remember me crying like a little girl about that.
Pirate organizations are always capable of maintaining supply lines not using capsuleer-linked stargates, as someone of your experience should know.
However, the problem here, Kretin, is that this is currently a an armed standoff. Is Ishukone's operation being Federally backed and recognized by the Administration? Are they now responsible for system security? Because of this, is Ishukone now an enemy to the Caldari State because of this level of collaboration? Should Federation Navy currently present within the Intaki system open fire on the Ishukone assets or Mordus?
Having these questions asked in a volatile wartime environment puts millions of innocent lives at risk. And all of it could have been avoided with a bit of communication.
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente Eleutherian Guard
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:40:00 -
[9]
From personal assessment, the Federation Navy currently present in Intaki may be fulfilling defence obligations under the CONCORD Militia Act, whereas the fleet under Admiral Gouenette was there to serve the security side of a possible S&S franchise.
However, Federal officials have already commented on the matter so far, and, unless it escalates, we might not see further comment from other Federal bodies.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 16:16:00 -
[10]
The Senate stood by and watched the Caldari occupy Intaki without lifting a finger, or deploying a single vessel from the Federation Navy.
Intaki isn't just another system, it houses the homeworld and heritage of an entire race, a race that thought it would be protected and assisted by the Senate due to being a part of the Gallente Federation. Whether the ownership is valid or not, the Senate stood by and let the system, and the very land that heritage is built on be auctioned off to a Stateside megacorporation.
Instead of coming to assist when the Federal Defense Union was at its weakest, the Federal administration turned its back on the Intaki people, and their homeworld by simply silencing their voices in the Presidential Elections, and pretending the problem didn't exist rather than working pro-actively to assist their people.
The Assembly is doing what it knows is best, showing that the Intaki people have the strength, and the resolve to stand on their own two feet without having to be the bastard-child of the Federation.
Honestly, after they were hung out to dry, cut off and had their voting rights in a DEMOCRATIC system of government revoked, what other response did anyone expect?
Souro Foiritan was an imbecile for making that call.
Power to the people, I say.
**** the Federation.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
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Jyotmimana Karana
Intaki Pure
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Posted - 2010.03.05 16:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Julianus Soter As such, Moira. Corporation immediately demands official comment from the Federation Navy, the Intaki Assembly, the Ishukone Corporation, the Mordus Legion Command, and the Senate regarding the present situation in the Intaki system.
I don't know where you presume to have so much importance, but none of these organizations owe you any explanation whatsoever.
For years, Gallente pilots have shouted us down with chants of "The Intaki People Love the Federation. The Intaki People Want the Federation. Respect what the Intaki People Want."
But then, when this is proven false, when the Intaki Assembly finally has had enough of the second-class treatment of the Federal bureaucracy and says "No, we don't want you any more" then you cry foul. Then you demand answers.
The Assembly, the voice of the Intaki People, has spoken, Juli, and it has said in no uncertain terms that the so-called security services of the Federation Navy are no longer needed or wanted. The same can be said about your militia pilots as well.
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Gemma Naquist
Kuomi Logistics
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Posted - 2010.03.05 16:33:00 -
[12]
Just a thought butą
Would it be possible to hold another election to determine the true wants of the Intaki people? Could that election have an outside, independent organization oversee the process to make sure that no one fudges the data?
Not that IĘm saying that the Federation would ever stoop to lying about what the populace of a given planet wants, especially when it means a planetĘs worth of tax revenues doesnĘt go to the Federation coffers anymore.
Such an election would be nice. It probably wonĘt happen until someone puts a Titan in orbit there too.
Just sayin...
KUOMI LOGISTICS: The bright future, today!Ö |
Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 16:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gemma Naquist Would it be possible to hold another election to determine the true wants of the Intaki people? Could that election have an outside, independent organization oversee the process to make sure that no one fudges the data?
You make far too much sense to be involved in cluster politics...
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.05 17:10:00 -
[14]
Quote: Perhaps their families could be threatened by Intaki Liberation Front members or Mordus enforcers? Instead of using outright force as they did the first time Intaki was removed from Federation control, perhaps they are using the organized crime approach this time?
Or maybe, just maybe, Ishukone are not asset stripping monsters intent on marching the Intaki off to the camps whilst they ship the planets resources back to the State. Perhaps it is possible they they proposed a business deal that was mutually beneficial and so the Intaki Assembly was happy to enter into a contract with them.
Quote: The Intaki Assembly is honoring an illegal contract that is against the will of the vast majority of Intaki citizens. Even the Intaki Liberation Front has conceded that vast majority of Intaki citizens want to remain part of the Federation.
Under what law is this contract illegal? Just because members of the Federal militia say a thing does not make it a fact. No laws have been broken by the Assembly, they are perfectly within their rights to choose who carries out security operations within their space. That they have chosen Ishukone and the Mordus for this does not mean that they are about to secede from the Federation. You have no idea what the majority of the Intaki population think with regards to this contract.
Quote: Is Ishukone's operation being Federally backed and recognized by the Administration? Are they now responsible for system security? Because of this, is Ishukone now an enemy to the Caldari State because of this level of collaboration? Should Federation Navy currently present within the Intaki system open fire on the Ishukone assets or Mordus?
Do Federal Police open fire on Ishukone assets within the Federation? Are Gallente stations within the State currently under siege? Ishukone have entered into a business agreement, this does not make them collaborators. Or is business between Gallente and Caldari citizens now forbidden?
They are tasked with the security of the system, not the defense of Federation bases which, correct me if I'm wrong, are not under the jurisdiction of the Intaki Assembly. The Gallente Federation is not at war with Ishukone. There is no more reason for them to fight Ishukone security patrols than there is for me to attack Federation businesses in State space.
Perhaps having your security forces not liable to be chased out of the system as the balance of war changes, or more interested in STPRO pilots than smugglers and pirates has led the Intaki Assembly to this decision.
Quote: Would it be possible to hold another election to determine the true wants of the Intaki people?
The Intaki government already represents the will of the people. If it is the peoples view that the Assembly no longer represents them, then yes there should be an election. But outside forces cannot demand new elections everytime a decision is made that they do not agree with. That is not democracy, that is a farce.
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Apollonius Verus
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Apollonius Verus on 05/03/2010 18:02:11
Originally by: Julianus Soter Should Federation Navy currently present within the Intaki system open fire on the Ishukone assets or Mordus?
The unambiguous answer from the Intaki Assembly appears to be a resounding "No!":
Originally by: Intaki Assembly Requests FDU Ceasefire Intaki - In a brief press conference directed primarily at FDU and independent capsuleers, the Intaki Assembly today requested that all loyalist captains cease hostilities against Ishukone and Mordu's Legion vessels in Intaki space.
The Intaki spokesman stated that vessels belonging to the Ishukone Corporation and Mordu's Legion are "present in Intaki at the specific and un-coerced request of the Assembly," adding that "any captains detaining or destroying such vessels are acting directly against the interests of the Intaki people as determined by this Assembly, and further are viewed as committing acts of piracy."
She did clarify that, "Ishukone corporation is permitted to operate only civilian vessels in the system, and Ishukone Watch is explicitly excluded from entry under the terms of the Agreement." Mordu's Legion, however, has been afforded complete military access, subject to command oversight from the civilian Assembly.
View the Intaki Homeworld Webcam at www.ilfcorp.com |
Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Verone
The Senate stood by and watched the Caldari occupy Intaki without lifting a finger, or deploying a single vessel from the Federation Navy.
Intaki isn't just another system, it houses the homeworld and heritage of an entire race, a race that thought it would be protected and assisted by the Senate due to being a part of the Gallente Federation. Whether the ownership is valid or not, the Senate stood by and let the system, and the very land that heritage is built on be auctioned off to a Stateside megacorporation.
Instead of coming to assist when the Federal Defense Union was at its weakest, the Federal administration turned its back on the Intaki people, and their homeworld by simply silencing their voices in the Presidential Elections, and pretending the problem didn't exist rather than working pro-actively to assist their people.
The Assembly is doing what it knows is best, showing that the Intaki people have the strength, and the resolve to stand on their own two feet without having to be the bastard-child of the Federation.
Honestly, after they were hung out to dry, cut off and had their voting rights in a DEMOCRATIC system of government revoked, what other response did anyone expect?
Souro Foiritan was an imbecile for making that call.
Power to the people, I say.
**** the Federation.
Well, we liberated this system from caldari military control..... Sry it wasn ton a proper timetable, but tis actualy a war you know?
So **** you
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Verone
The Senate stood by and watched the Caldari occupy Intaki without lifting a finger, or deploying a single vessel from the Federation Navy.
I ask you: Should the FDU invade a Caldari system, do you think the Caldari Navy will come to assist?
This entire war is set up to expressly disallow direct conflict between the empires navies.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:14:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 05/03/2010 18:14:37
Originally by: Verone
The Senate stood by blah blah blah blah
Goddamnit Verone, stop acting like a prat. -----
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:19:00 -
[19]
I applaud the Assembly's swift response to our request for comment located here.
However, it seems Ishukone Corporation paramilitary vessels are still located in the system, specifically Caracal-class escort cruisers in orbit of the Intaki 5-5 station: holo.
Moira. vessels have destroyed these ships as they are not allowed to operate within the Intaki Assembly jurisdiction as dictated by the contract.
I call upon all other FDU participants to yield to the Intaki Assembly's declaration. They are full participants within the Federation, and as such, their will should be respected.
However, Moira. Corporation further requests Ishukone corporation to withdraw all corporate military forces from the system to ensure no further miscommunication and loss of life occurs.
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Apollonius Verus
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Julianus Soter I applaud the Assembly's swift response to our request for comment located here.
Swift indeed, considering that their statement appeared the day before your request for comment.
View the Intaki Homeworld Webcam at www.ilfcorp.com |
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:41:00 -
[21]
I trust that you will also begin the destruction of the Federal Navy, who are there against the wishes of the Intaki Assembly. Or are you just trying to escalate a war you are no longer a part of for your own ends?
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Hussain
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:46:00 -
[22]
It is the Assembly right to choose who to contract for system defense, but choosing a force that often works outside of the law inside Federation space and that has very strong ties to the Caldari military will only create a safe heaven and a good military base inside Federation territory for the State.
As its common for small minded people they only see their rights and not the obligations they should have while facing a common enemy.
Their stance towards FDU is strange because I didn't know that the Assembly has any saying in Concord matters regarding what is considered an act of piracy and even they did they seem to forget that FDU is a Federal entity and so not subject to their commands.
To end the "un-coerced" and "good faith" part of their deals with their new associates is not to be taken seriously as its common knowledge that the Ishokune/Mordus rights were auctioned by the State after their occupation and only proves that they think the rest of the galaxy is easily duped.
I do hope the Intaki people is happy about this choices.
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Apollonius Verus
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Apollonius Verus on 05/03/2010 19:17:17
Originally by: Hussain It is the Assembly right to choose who to contract for system defense....
As its common for small minded people they only see their rights and not the obligations they should have while facing a common enemy....
I do hope the Intaki people is happy about this choices.
Presumably the Intaki people are happy with the decision, considering they elected the Assembly to represent them. However, one thing I am sure they would not be happy about is to hear you insult their representives, and by extension, themselves.
View the Intaki Homeworld Webcam at www.ilfcorp.com |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Val Erian So **** you
**** you too sunshine, you're the one who's a military slave to a nation that couldn't give a flying **** about it's citizens.
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 05/03/2010 18:14:37
Originally by: Verone
The Senate stood by blah blah blah blah
Goddamnit Verone, stop acting like a prat.
I expected more from you, Andreus.
You know the deal.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:21:00 -
[25]
Then don't look at a ****ed situation and tell me it's not ****ed! -----
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Hussain
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Apollonius Verus Presumably the Intaki people are happy with the decision, considering they elected the Assembly to represent them. However, one thing I am sure they would not be happy about is to hear you insult their representives, and by extension, themselves.
Another tactic of small minded people: ignore the issue focus on the precieved insult and how they are outraged by it.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Then don't look at a ****ed situation and tell me it's not ****ed!
The only ****ed thing is that the Federation put the Intaki Assembly in a position to have to make this decision.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:49:00 -
[28]
What's ****ed about this is that the Federation is having to fight a war where it can't legally use most of its own goddamn defence forces to reinforce the very systems that are under threat due to the ridiculous constraints of this militia war powers act - the Federation must, because of CONCORD's byzantine decrees, leave the defence of its own borders in the notoriously unreliable hands of capsuleers, rather than the Federation Navy who are specifically trained for this goddamn task. We have to do this illogical hopping between tactical sites in deep space that don't have any obvious relevance to the situation at hand, waiting within a very specific range of some transmission station for an arbitrarily long amount of time...
... you know, I can KILL every Caldari Navy ship in the goddamn system!
Every single goddamn one!
And somehow, they're still occupying the goddamn place even though there's not a single goddamn Caldari ship left in the goddamn system!
I could do this in every system still occupied by the goddamn Provists, yet through some arbitrary ill-explained goddamn CONCORD decision even if there's not a single Caldari in the system, if we haven't spun ourselves round twenty-one of these goddamn tactical sites and spent two goddamn hours shooting at the goddamn bunker, the Caldari still own the system even if there's not a single grey hull to be seen for three light years!
This isn't a goddamn war - I feel like I'm playing a more deadly version of "king of the goddamn hill"! More importantly, why is the Federation standing for this ridiculous situation where they have to hire me to play it to defend their systems, rather than sending in the goddamn people who are goddamn trained to goddamn defend the goddamn systems?! -----
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane What's ****ed about this is that the Federation is having to fight a war where it can't legally use most of its own goddamn defence forces to reinforce the very systems that are under threat due to the ridiculous constraints of this militia war powers act - the Federation must, because of CONCORD's byzantine decrees, leave the defence of its own borders in the notoriously unreliable hands of capsuleers, rather than the Federation Navy who are specifically trained for this goddamn task. We have to do this illogical hopping between tactical sites in deep space that don't have any obvious relevance to the situation at hand, waiting within a very specific range of some transmission station for an arbitrarily long amount of time...
... you know, I can KILL every Caldari Navy ship in the goddamn system!
Every single goddamn one!
And somehow, they're still occupying the goddamn place even though there's not a single goddamn Caldari ship left in the goddamn system!
I could do this in every system still occupied by the goddamn Provists, yet through some arbitrary ill-explained goddamn CONCORD decision even if there's not a single Caldari in the system, if we haven't spun ourselves round twenty-one of these goddamn tactical sites and spent two goddamn hours shooting at the goddamn bunker, the Caldari still own the system even if there's not a single grey hull to be seen for three light years!
This isn't a goddamn war - I feel like I'm playing a more deadly version of "king of the goddamn hill"! More importantly, why is the Federation standing for this ridiculous situation where they have to hire me to play it to defend their systems, rather than sending in the goddamn people who are goddamn trained to goddamn defend the goddamn systems?!
You need some serious anger management counselling, Andreus.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:01:00 -
[30]
Will you at least concede that the situation is ridiculous? I don't need any proof that it is, I'm right here living in it. I simply want you to acknowledge that the Federation (and, indeed, all four major powers) have been placed in a truly absurd situation in which their borders are constantly under threat, yet they cannot defend them with the forces trained for exactly this purpose.
This sort of bizarro-world illogic is something that Macaper couldn't have dreamt up in her wildest nightmares! -----
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Will you at least concede that the situation is ridiculous?
That's what you get for parking yourself firmly under the jurisdiction of Senate and becoming a Federal whipping boy.
The Federation has always been too spineless to question CONCORD's motives and regulations, and has always been the ***** of the DED.
As for the situation in Intaki, from their point of view they're simply making a stand against being kicked around from pillar to post like some runt of the litter half-breed race.
I can't blame them at all. The Senate is utterly hopeless and Roden is too busy beating off over how awesome he is now that he's President to make any form of meaningful public address.
I wish the Intaki people the best of luck in liberating themselves, to be honest.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:21:00 -
[32]
Verone, Andreus, take your personality conflict somewhere else. This is an ongoing humanitarian crisis in an active warzone with little to no clarification regarding Ishukone military activity within the Intaki starsystem.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:25:00 -
[33]
What, so you're saying the Federation should withdraw from CONCORD and make itself fair game for any Tom, **** and Harry that comes waltzing into its space with a Titan and decides to glass a planet? Might I remind you that the same "spinelessness" applies to all four empires, since they all abide by this ridiculous state of affairs?
Or are you simply trolling? -----
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Verone, Andreus, take your personality conflict somewhere else. This is an ongoing humanitarian crisis in an active warzone with little to no clarification regarding Ishukone military activity within the Intaki starsystem.
You're sorely mistaken if you think I have issues with Andreus. If I had issues with him, they could have been put to rest quite literally a long time ago.
Yet again, your lack of coherence when speaking trips you up. It seems to happen every time you speak. You should probably check your facts before engaging your jaw.
I'm simply debating the current state of affairs.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Or are you simply trolling?
No, you know as well as I do that I'm giving you my personal opinion with respect to my experience during my service with Federal Forces before becoming independant.
To brand me as a "trolling" simply because you can't construct a reasonable and coherent response to my points, which are wholly based on hard fact, is a weak attempt at ending the argument.
Let me end it for you, so that you don't have to reduce yourself to that level.
I've said my piece, and offer yourself and "General" Soter the best of luck in further wasting your efforts to retake systems that your superiors obviously don't give a rats ass about.
Have fun.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:42:00 -
[36]
Mr. Verone, if there was no personality conflict between you two, then there would not be roughly ten unique messages from both parties on this particular IGS thread. I take no issue with you specifically, but I would like us to focus on the present crisis rather than your more general discussion about the situation within the Federation or the nature of Andreus's discourse.
Andreus, I suggest you step away. There are more important things at stake here.
I have reconfirmed the existence of Ishukone military craft inside the Intaki system. I ask again for the Assembly to comment on the nature of this forces and whether or not they give us clearance to engage.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 20:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Mr. Verone, if there was no personality conflict between you two, then there would not be roughly ten unique messages from both parties on this particular IGS thread. I take no issue with you specifically, but I would like us to focus on the present crisis rather than your more general discussion about the situation within the Federation or the nature of Andreus's discourse.
Andreus, I suggest you step away. There are more important things at stake here.
I have reconfirmed the existence of Ishukone military craft inside the Intaki system. I ask again for the Assembly to comment on the nature of this forces and whether or not they give us clearance to engage.
Ishukone are there because they paid to be there when the State "auctioned" off the system, valid in the Federation's eyes or not.
You should be thankful that they're moving supplies, and tending to the Intaki people rather than putting down dropships packed with MTACs and marines.
The Intaki Assembly obviously want them there, given their apparent co-operation with Ishukone personnel. Besides, Ishukone appears to be doing more for the Intaki people than the Federation have done for months.
Riddle me this : Ishukone bring food, supplies and assistance to the Intaki people, the Federation turn up with gunships and strike craft, wanting to be given access to the system.
Who are the more useful to the Intaki people, in the current situation?
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:04:00 -
[38]
Nothing the Federation would or could do would ever please you, Verone - they could park a Titan and a fleet the size of the one they killed the Kador fleet with in the system and vaporise anyone who came into the system and looked at them funny and you'd accuse them of iron-fisted tyranny! They could offer Intaki independence and you'd call them weak-willed! They could put every citizen in the Federation at risk by leaving CONCORD and you'd call them irresponsible! They could destroy the Titan in Luminaire and you'd call them monstrous despots! They could launch a massive counter-offensive against the State and you'd call them imperialist! They could sue for peace with the State and you'd call them spineless!
They could summon your bloody idol Jirai Laitanen out of hiding to dance the haka for you on your favourite table at the Last Gate in a G-string bikini woven from a lock of Jamyl Sarum's hair and YOU'D ACCUSE THEM OF WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY! -----
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Nothing the Federation would or could do would ever please you, Verone - they could park a Titan and a fleet the size of the one they killed the Kador fleet with in the system and vaporise anyone who came into the system and looked at them funny and you'd accuse them of iron-fisted tyranny! They could offer Intaki independence and you'd call them weak-willed! They could put every citizen in the Federation at risk by leaving CONCORD and you'd call them irresponsible! They could destroy the Titan in Luminaire and you'd call them monstrous despots! They could launch a massive counter-offensive against the State and you'd call them imperialist! They could sue for peace with the State and you'd call them spineless!
They could summon your bloody idol Jirai Laitanen out of hiding to dance the haka for you on your favourite table at the Last Gate in a G-string bikini woven from a lock of Jamyl Sarum's hair and YOU'D ACCUSE THEM OF WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY!
Actually, you're wrong, on quite a few of those points. As always you assume far too much.
And as for my idol... believe me, Laitanen isn't him.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira. Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:43:00 -
[40]
The Auction has utterly no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any organization in the CONCORD area of jurisdiction. CONCORD did not recognize the auction results, nor did the Federation, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Angels, Guristas, Serpentis, SOE, or any other minor municipality or sovereignty.
The State created what in effect was a de facto suzerainty inside the occupied systems, administrated by the nation's client megacorporations and attendant paramilitary organizations. This was under a wartime occupation and an expansive military campaign. There is no legal obligation from any entity towards the agreements generated between the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Megacorporations.
Nothing about this has any connection to popular sovereignty of the lowsec systems in question. There is extensive evidence that there was military invasion of a number of inhabited worlds within the Occupied Zone, and martial law was utilized to control the population.
The situation specifically inside Intaki appears to be that the Ishukone Corporation is siding with the Federation rather than with the State. The Caldari Navy detachment within the system has been annihilated, and the Federation navy has posted picket fleets to ensure no incursion occurs again, as fitting with the Assembly's wishes.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Julianus Soter The Auction has utterly no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any organization in the CONCORD area of jurisdiction. CONCORD did not recognize the auction results, nor did the Federation, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Angels, Guristas, Serpentis, SOE, or any other minor municipality or sovereignty.
The State created what in effect was a de facto suzerainty inside the occupied systems, administrated by the nation's client megacorporations and attendant paramilitary organizations. This was under a wartime occupation and an expansive military campaign. There is no legal obligation from any entity towards the agreements generated between the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Megacorporations.
Nothing about this has any connection to popular sovereignty of the lowsec systems in question. There is extensive evidence that there was military invasion of a number of inhabited worlds within the Occupied Zone, and martial law was utilized to control the population.
The situation specifically inside Intaki appears to be that the Ishukone Corporation is siding with the Federation rather than with the State. The Caldari Navy detachment within the system has been annihilated, and the Federation navy has posted picket fleets to ensure no incursion occurs again, as fitting with the Assembly's wishes.
You didn't answer my question. It's okay though, feel free to avoid my point completely.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:55:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Stitcher on 05/03/2010 21:54:59 As I've grown tired of explaining, it's vital not to confuse the function of the auction with its intent.
The auction served as a mechanic for apportioning responsibility for the oversight of occupied territories to State organisations. The equivalent process in the Federation would have been a... committee or a QUANGO (Quasi-Autonomous Non-Government Organization)
it's a simple, practical solution entirely appropriate to the corporate-capitalist paradigm of Caldari society. There was no malice involved in the auction, no implication that people were being purchased and sold. It was purely administrative. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.05 22:08:00 -
[43]
Local garrison perhaps? Intaki piloted vessels still using the Federation engine signature markers? |
Jon Engel
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Julianus Soter The Auction has utterly no legal precedent and is not legally binding to any organization in the CONCORD area of jurisdiction. CONCORD did not recognize the auction results, nor did the Federation, Empire, Republic, Kingdom, Angels, Guristas, Serpentis, SOE, or any other minor municipality or sovereignty.
The State created what in effect was a de facto suzerainty inside the occupied systems, administrated by the nation's client megacorporations and attendant paramilitary organizations. This was under a wartime occupation and an expansive military campaign. There is no legal obligation from any entity towards the agreements generated between the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Megacorporations.
Nothing about this has any connection to popular sovereignty of the lowsec systems in question. There is extensive evidence that there was military invasion of a number of inhabited worlds within the Occupied Zone, and martial law was utilized to control the population.
The situation specifically inside Intaki appears to be that the Ishukone Corporation is siding with the Federation rather than with the State. The Caldari Navy detachment within the system has been annihilated, and the Federation navy has posted picket fleets to ensure no incursion occurs again, as fitting with the Assembly's wishes.
You didn't answer my question. It's okay though, feel free to avoid my point completely.
He does that a lot.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:13:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jon Engel He does that a lot.
I've noticed.
Congratulations on the situation by the way. Feel free to stop by The Last Gate for a celebratory drink sometime.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Lucius Vindictus
Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Local garrison perhaps? Intaki piloted vessels still using the Federation engine signature markers?
This would make sense. No one can change those overnight. Yet, I wonder if that is the case. Much seems unclear still.
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John Tanashima
Caldari ICS-762 Drunken Butterflies
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Posted - 2010.03.06 06:44:00 -
[47]
I have received no orders to shoot at any federal navy or FDU ships in the system, I suppose that under the Militia Act, tactical sites and strategic Navy forces are explicitly allowed by the Assembly, and that it is only the S&S forces that were turned back peacefully.
As my CONCORD databases remind me, Intaki is still a federal system, and it is still under Federal military control as far as external system defenses are involved, only internal police forces, customs and civilian infrastructure units are rejected under the S&S contract with the Legion and Ishukone.
As for the Ishukone Watch ships, If you have reasons to believe that they assist the STPRO in any way, please try to use legal means to contest their presence... after all, unfounded accusations of 'stripping the station bare', 'sucking the oxygen out of the Intaki atmosphere' and others wild rumors have already been heard about Ishukone, and both Fedmart and some stateside competitors may have interests in running those rumors.
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Chell Charon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.03.06 21:15:00 -
[48]
People seem to be jumping into big assumptions here.
There is only one area where the results of the Auction are binding. State and State controlled areas.
However assuming that CONCORD sanctioned mechanics of militias, will for now and evermore keep Intaki under the Federations flag, seems to me an excample of unwarranted optimism. -Even when only considering the militias impact on the politics of the area.
Intaki could welcome Federation military assets and corporations into trading with them. However if and when fortunes of war favour the State they will have to deal with Ishukone.
Before the Auction steals the show here, even if it had not been held Intaki would have to deal with changed circumstances. Least of which certainly not being the changes in security services providers.
Using Mordus Legion as a security asset keeps both State and Federation military forces out under current circumstances. Since it apparently is Intaki Assambly fronting the bill to Mordus Legion and with Ishukone happy with the arrangement one can get certain conclusions here.
I put forth the notion that despite the ebb and flow of the "faction war" Intaki Assambly has elected a set of contracts and policies offering the best realistic level of stability for the Intaki people. And while stability for some of us may be something of a curse word, generally it is favored state for the industrialist and artist. Realpolitik, when you recognize the difference between ideal and the real world. |
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.07 00:23:00 -
[49]
I respect Intaki's freedom on choice on this but I do have to ask why and why shortly after their liberation? Thousands will have been killed aboard the FDU's ships in an attempt to rid the area of the occupying forces and on the day of liberation Intaki seams to defect to the state, a serious slap in the face to the Federation. I assume Intaki will still be wanting Federation aid to help repair any damage caused by the occupation and subsequent liberation.
It wouldn't surprise me if there's far more going on here than we know about, Foirtan the Intaki president has "vanished", Ishukone's unexplained only bid being on the most difficult system to develop in anyway, Roden's rise to power, no communications from the government, the faint reports of the state militia's leadership breaking down and now Intaki's move towards Caldari co-operation. Perhaps Intaki will leave the Federation, perhaps Ishukone will leave the state.... Who knows....
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Sumerio Rayej
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front
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Posted - 2010.03.07 05:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Julianus Soter However, it seems Ishukone Corporation paramilitary vessels are still located in the system, specifically Caracal-class escort cruisers in orbit of the Intaki 5-5 station: holo.
Moira. vessels have destroyed these ships as they are not allowed to operate within the Intaki Assembly jurisdiction as dictated by the contract.
Speaking of miscommunication and unecessary loss of life, you guys need to stop shooting at these Ishukone vessels. Just because they are combat-class ships doesn't make them military or "para-military", which would be a fitting description only if they were navy or Ishukone Watch ships. They are civilian escort vessels. You're badly interpreting the will of the Assembly, here, and you're going to make the situation worse. Mordu's Legion may be providing security for the Intaki system, itself, but Ishukone is well within its rights to send escorts to guard its convoys, even into the Intaki system. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
View the Intaki Homeworld Webcam at www.ilfcorp.com |
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Hussain
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.03.07 05:21:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Chell Charon People seem to be jumping into big assumptions here.
Using Mordus Legion as a security asset keeps both State and Federation military forces out under current circumstances. And while stability for some of us may be something of a curse word, generally it is favored state for the industrialist and artist.
Well if you do honestly believe in neutrality from Mordus Legion than you must be either missinformed or doing cheap propaganda.
Mordus Legion is owned to 35% by the Caldari Navy.
Do you really think they will keep the Caldari forces away from Intaki ?
Someone said this is a slap in the face of the Federation, thats true but its also a very big security concern.
The Intaki Assembly either choose to disregard this fact or is making a statement, either case I dont like it but their will should be respected.
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.07 08:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hussain
Originally by: Chell Charon Do you really think they will keep the Caldari forces away from Intaki ?
It is not their job to keep the STPRO from the system. That is still the responsibility of the Federal Navy, who are manning the defensive sites within Intaki.
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Vechtor
Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.07 15:03:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Verone
The Senate stood by and watched the Caldari occupy Intaki without lifting a finger, or deploying a single vessel from the Federation Navy.
Intaki isn't just another system, it houses the homeworld and heritage of an entire race, a race that thought it would be protected and assisted by the Senate due to being a part of the Gallente Federation. Whether the ownership is valid or not, the Senate stood by and let the system, and the very land that heritage is built on be auctioned off to a Stateside megacorporation.
Instead of coming to assist when the Federal Defense Union was at its weakest, the Federal administration turned its back on the Intaki people, and their homeworld by simply silencing their voices in the Presidential Elections, and pretending the problem didn't exist rather than working pro-actively to assist their people.
The Assembly is doing what it knows is best, showing that the Intaki people have the strength, and the resolve to stand on their own two feet without having to be the bastard-child of the Federation.
Honestly, after they were hung out to dry, cut off and had their voting rights in a DEMOCRATIC system of government revoked, what other response did anyone expect?
Souro Foiritan was an imbecile for making that call.
Power to the people, I say.
**** the Federation.
I believe no one could have been so clear and effective in summarizing what I feel on this subject and what this subject truly represents. Congratulations.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2010.03.07 15:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Hussain [...
The Intaki Assembly either choose to disregard this fact or is making a statement, either case I dont like it but their will should be respected.
That assumes that the Intaki Assembly accurately represents the will of the people as it is only the assent of the governed that gives any government the right to exist. During times of occupation it is impossible for any government to represent the will of the people to the same extent as during times of peace. For myself, a lasting peace, free and fair elections, and a stable government that includes the rights of the governed in its very warp and weave are required before any government's decisions should be respected as the default position.
Peace first, then politicking on the part of the Intaki Assembly.
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Hussain
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.03.07 16:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Vincent Death
Originally by: Hussain
Originally by: Chell Charon Do you really think they will keep the Caldari forces away from Intaki ?
It is not their job to keep the STPRO from the system. That is still the responsibility of the Federal Navy, who are manning the defensive sites within Intaki.
Sorry what Federal Navy ? That one that the Assembly says that is "neither required, nor welcome" or are we talking of another Federal Navy I dont know of ?
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.03.07 18:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hussain Sorry what Federal Navy ? That one that the Assembly says that is "neither required, nor welcome" or are we talking of another Federal Navy I dont know of ?
The Federal Navy that are in the system defending it from capsuleers like me who are intent on killing them. Despite the propaganda and politics they are still there.
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Lief Siddhe
Siddhean Inc. Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.03.07 21:37:00 -
[57]
The whole point of these announcements is that you immortal kids should go back to shooting each other until eternity and leave the non-capsuleer ships in Intaki alone, as they're currently operating under approval by the Intaki Assembly.
_____ I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold... |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.08 00:11:00 -
[58]
Only a specific set of ships are approved. Another set are specifically not approved. We'll help kill them since I doubt the Mordus enforcers will engage - and even if they do they probably won't have enough firepower to do the job right.
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Caellach Marellus
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Verone Souro Foiritan was an imbecile for making that call.
I think that was the status quo for the last several months of his time in power. --------------------------------------
All commentary unless explicitly stated remains the personal views of Caellach Marellus and do not necessarily represent that of his Corporation or Alliance |
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