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Mizhara Del'thul
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2010.02.19 23:20:00 -
[1]
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics would like to congratulate Star Fraction. Finally, after so many years of shackling yourself through outright refusing your pilots' requests to shoot obviously hostile neutrals, you have abandoned your NRDS Rule of Engagement. Yesterday, in Kamela, an unarmed and empty industrial was fired upon and destroyed by Icarus3, a Star Fraction Director. After having a conversation with said pilot, I've determined that there has been no notification of standings change. No diplomatic contact at all, in fact. Just the unprovoked destruction of an Iteron V class vessel, along with a currently unknown amount of crew. Killboard link, here: http://www.jericho-fraction.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14934
I must admit, to begin with, I didn't believe the pilot. My first thought was "Star Fraction doesn't have the minerals." It wasn't until he got me that link that I started entertaining the thought that this was true. After getting neutral verification... I laughed... and I laughed and laughed...
Fantastic, really. Finally you have shown your colors and joined the ranks of pirates and others who are truly willing to live free. To be anarchists. Fire upon what you wish to fire. Destroy who you wish to destroy. According to this event, no one is safe, no matter whether they're neutral or not. I would like to personally thank the Star Fraction for unleashing their pilots, as they can now finally start doing some real damage in Amarr space instead of relying on hiding and IGS posts with very little connection to reality.
So, when is the announcement coming? When will Cosmo or Jade make the "Star Fraction is now NBSI" statement? I hope it's coming soon, so your pilots can finally unleash the fury of their arms without spending days at the diplomacy table first. Sure, I realize it's more convenient to still claim NRDS, as it might lure more unarmed industrials into your waiting arms or autocannons, but it's bound to become general knowledge sooner or later. Let's make it sooner, in order to properly celebrate that Star Fraction has dropped it's benevolent mask and finally shows the beast underneath.
So ladies and gentlemen, if you live in regions near Star Fraction's bases and territory, let us celebrate. Come one, come all... Let us set the region on fire as we howl and laugh at this unexpected development. Oh, but do keep your turrets nice and warm... neutral isn't protection from combat any more...
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.02.19 23:25:00 -
[2]
Congratulations Star Fraction, this is truly the greatest step you have taken to advance the revolution in years. Shedding the shackles of your public image in order to quash tyranny from the cluster without distracting yourselves with petty nonsense and frivolous hand-wringing over questions of minor importance when it comes to our cause.
I look forward to the progress Star Fraction will begin to make now under their new modus operandi. Best of luck to my fellow freecaptains and comrades. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Seraphim Risen
Minmatar Moira.
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Posted - 2010.02.19 23:31:00 -
[3]
Awww they're so cute and... Well, as I've always said, hypocritical. "We don't shoot neutrals! We don't shoot neutrals!"
You kids and your so-called freedom. ----------------------------------- The Republic has failed and abandoned its people. I can no longer stand beneath its flag and honestly say I believe in my cause. |
dibblebill
Beyond Our Sins
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Posted - 2010.02.19 23:51:00 -
[4]
Unsurprising, to be honest. According to all I've seen said, and I have not been refuted, "might makes right" according to members of Star Fraction. Perhaps they will finally simply admit it, and we can all just move on from random cries of hypocrisy. *SPLUD* |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Archbishop on 20/02/2010 00:02:30
Interesting... yet not surprising. This makes the third incident this week of the Star Fraction doing things they claim not to do. We have two corp thefts and now an attack on a neutral. It's just another incidence of hypocrisy like claiming to fight oppressors yet allying with oppressive pirates.
I noticed Jade made a comment on the killboard that was interesting...
Jade Constantine: 2010-02-19 23:32:59 Good job people. Enemies of freedom will not be tolerated, neutral or not. And people who insult Revan will also not be tolerated.
While Jade speaks of her feelings toward enemies of freedom she also seems to indicate "neutral" targets and those who exercise freedom of speech are also now targets. Clearly they have thrown NRDS out the window here. I noticed however that message promptly disappeared from the comment section and was replaced. I can only assume this was a meant for internal Star Fraction pilot communications inpod, probably via evemail but was accidently published publically by Jade. Clearly the Star Fraction is no longer NRDS and will attack neutrals and anyone who insults Jade's love interest.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Darveses
DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Archbishop
Jade Constantine: 2010-02-19 23:32:59 Good job people. Enemies of freedom will not be tolerated, neutral or not. And people who insult Revan will also not be tolerated.
A little more subtlety and this would have been much, much more believable, Misan. *chuckles* --- Star Fraction Public - Follow us on YouTube!
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:11:00 -
[7]
One should not be that suprised considering recent romantic developments. I mean, if love is able to break empires, it should easily be able to break an NRDS rule, right?
Originally by: Jade Constantine Love is the most powerful, beautiful and terrible of emotions. It can set the skies afire and level mountains, it can break empires and inspire music that shreds the soul and banishes ease and contentment forever.
I still do not think the Star Fraction has or will abandon their general NRDS policy. As ms. Constantine has explained previously, maintaing the appeance of being an honest and civil NRDS organization serves her agenda better than NBSI or wanton pirating. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
dibblebill
Beyond Our Sins
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Darveses
Originally by: Archbishop
Jade Constantine: 2010-02-19 23:32:59 Good job people. Enemies of freedom will not be tolerated, neutral or not. And people who insult Revan will also not be tolerated.
A little more subtlety and this would have been much, much more believable, Misan. *chuckles*
The validity of the comment is irrelevant. What is relevant is the destruction of a completely neutral hauler by Star Fraction assets. *SPLUD* |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 20/02/2010 00:17:30
The ship in question was operated by an agent of Misan Paltaek.
Misan Paltaek is a self-admitted corp thief who stole 1.2 billion isk worth of alliance assets from Kamela yesterday and returned to gloat of his deeds in alliance chat through the words of another associate. This industrial ship (linked in the op) claimed to be the agent of a loyal SF Director and offered to help collect "more POS equipment" and continue the thievery of Misan Paltaek.
The agent and corporation in question are undoubtedly operated by an enemy of the Star Fraction who has been duly informed of his status (which also reflects on his current associates in Rote Kapelle).
The false killboard comments mentioned by Archbishop here were placed on our kill database using the password provided to Misan Paltaek while he was a trusted associate of the Star Fraction. This represents mild sabotage of 3rd party systems and as such I am quite surprised to see Archbishop and PIE Inc. endorsing such tactics even against an enemy in space. I have no hesitation in condemning the op post as a outright lie composed by other enemies of the Star Fraction to support this thief in his activities.
We have a full record of Misan Paltaek's confession as a thief. We have a full diplomatic record of the Rote Kapelle executor acknowledging this theft and taking responsibility for the negative standings caused by the deed in their name.
For the thief to come here through the words of other thieves and liars claiming damages to a vessel attempting ... well ... more theft, is quite pathetic.
Ultimately though it will be the word of the Star Fraction against the word of self-confessed corp thief and a gutless NBSI blowhard terrified of committing to substantive action in space.
If any of our allies or friends would like to know more on this issue they are certainly welcome to contact a Star Fraction diplomat and we'll tell them what we know of this business.
True Knowledge |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:17:00 -
[10]
I think it's more likely this was an internal inpod alliance communication of congratulations intended for corporate pilots but errantly released publically. Given the recent "love thread" where Jade has commented this comment seems plausible. Jade has frequently overlooked the crimes of her lover (piracy, slavery, oppression, etc etc etc). While it's possible this was a disgruntled employee I think the odds would say it's authentic.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
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dibblebill
Beyond Our Sins
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:19:00 -
[11]
I would like to see said "confession" then, since right now, its the word of someone who has blown up a neutral hauler, or had their corpmate do it, against a neutral entity. But from what I hear, you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a clonejack for bitter old Bacchanalian.
So, show me this evidence, in its entirety. *SPLUD* |
Mizhara Del'thul
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:21:00 -
[12]
The theft of the POSes is a well known fact, and there has been no dispute on that matter. This neutral pilot who was fired upon by a Star Fraction Director, however, has as far as all investigation into the matter shows.... no connection to said event.
Would you like to provide proof, ms. Constantine? We have shown unassailable proof that you have finally dropped that silly NRDS policy and adopted a more practical position, for which you should be commended... but where's the proof of your statements?
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:24:00 -
[13]
As Rote Kapelle's director of intelligence operations and having been aware of the aforementioned operation, I know nothing of the victim here in question.
Star Fraction, please, don't back down now in your time of glory. Embrace it. Do not be afraid. Dare to dream of the potential it gives you, of the power it gives you, of the freedom it gives you. Use this weapon to advance your noble cause. Be brave, freecaptains. Be brave.
____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
The ship in question was operated by an agent of Misan Paltaek.
I seem to recall you being quite vocal about Master Guardian Merdaneth shooting a "neutral" who clearly was a Star Fraction spy in his eyes. I also recall you refusing to deny it was a spy thus indicating your guilt in the matter in the eyes of the public.
I also noticed in your post #20 in that thread you crow about the "Star Fraction's more principled rules of engagement."
Perhaps you'd be willing to provide proof this pilot was an agent of Misan Paltaek? If not I'm sure the condemnation you made against Master Guardian Merdaneth you will now direct at yourselves. After all... failure to do so would be quite hypocritcal to say the least.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jade Constantine For the thief to come here through the words of other thieves and liars claiming damages to a vessel attempting ... well ... more theft, is quite pathetic.
Ultimately though it will be the word of the Star Fraction against the word of self-confessed corp thief and a gutless NBSI blowhard terrified of committing to substantive action in space.
We are thieves and liars, now? Gutless NBSI blowhards terrified of committing to substantive action in space?
We've flown alongside you, Constantine, before you took up with that Amarrian harlot again and began doing everything in your power to alienate us. That's neither here nor there, though.
Prove this connection you claim between the pilot of the Industrial and Pilot Pal'tek. Support your accusation against Du'uma Fiisi of being thieves and liars - show us what we stole from The Star Fraction.
Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting |
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: ChipMo on 20/02/2010 00:29:10
Havo she was talking about Rote Kepelle.
Miz... you havn't a clue what your talking about.
The star fraction remains NRDS.
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Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ChipMo Havo she was talking about Rote Kepelle.
Fair enough, then. Thank you for clarifying, Chip.
Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting |
Seraphim Risen
Minmatar Moira.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:31:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Seraphim Risen on 20/02/2010 00:31:40
Originally by: ChipMo Edited by: ChipMo on 20/02/2010 00:29:10
Havo she was talking about Rote Kepelle.
Miz... you havn't a clue what your talking about.
The star fraction remains NRDS.
That's not what the records say, sweetie.
I still think its hilarious I wasn't kicked from the star fraction channel for being a troll, or ****ing people off, but for insulting Revan. Oddly coincidental, ya think? It was just after I posted her lovely, completely failfit Legion she flies around with shield mods that it happened. Jade called it "pvp elitism", I believe! It was so cute! *giggle* ----------------------------------- The Republic has failed and abandoned its people. I can no longer stand beneath its flag and honestly say I believe in my cause. |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Seraphim Risen
I still think its hilarious I wasn't kicked from the star fraction channel for being a troll, or ****ing people off, but for insulting Revan. Oddly coincidental, ya think? It was just after I posted her lovely, completely failfit Legion she flies around with shield mods that it happened.
You're saying the Star Fraction, a group that supports "freedom" and thus "freedom of speech" (I'd think) threw you out of their public channel for insulting someone who wasn't even a member of their alliance? That is shocking to say the least.
It appears downright hypocritical to say the least if it's true.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
The ship in question was operated by an agent of Misan Paltaek.
This industrial ship (linked in the op) claimed to be the agent of a loyal SF Director and offered to help collect "more POS equipment" and continue the thievery of Misan Paltaek.
The agent and corporation in question are undoubtedly operated by an enemy of the Star Fraction who has been duly informed of his status (which also reflects on his current associates in Rote Kapelle).
Hmmmm.... So, you believed that this industrial pilot worked for your enemies, right? And you wanted to reduce danger and damage to the alliance by attacking it, right? Let us repeat what you said about this previously:
Originally by: Jade Constantine After all I had suspicion of his actions. I believed he worked for my enemies. Clear cut case of reducing danger to my group right?
Wrong. He was a neutral. Star Fraction does not fire on neutrals. We have Rules of Engagement and clear principles at work. If we ever believed this pilot was so obviously an Amarrian agent of our foes that we needed to engage him then we'd give 24 hours notice of his standings reclassification on a public thread on this forum and then engage him after fair warning had been given.
That is what NRDS means. Not Red Don't Shoot.
Not .... Not Red Only Shoot If I Really Want To. (NROSIIRWT)
So, even in a clear-cut case, by your own words, you would give someone 24 hours standings notification. Did this pilot receive such a notification?
Your earlier post is again deliciously ironic considering this incident. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Revan Neferis
Amarr The Archaeus of Blood
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:41:00 -
[21]
Oh, how surprising! it's about us again love! Clearly some people's universe revolves around us... How cute.
Another day in our almost 5 years paradise.
Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 20/02/2010 00:42:21
Full and final answer has been given. The tower thefts have been replaced, codes changed and damage repaired. All speaking "against" the Fraction on this thread on the "evidence" presented by the corp-thieves Misan Paltaek and Rote Kapelle handlers are fooling themselves really. An attack was made, we conducted diplomacy and standings have been adjusted.
Our reputation cannot be damaged by those with no reputation of their own.
At this point all is windy-bluster from those without the courage to fight their battles in space.
(and yes, I do unite PIE Inc. and Rote Kapelle very definitely in that category)
True Knowledge |
Mizhara Del'thul
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:47:00 -
[23]
Again, the corp theft, and I do believe pilot Pal'taek as well, are hardly connected to this event. Well, unless you guys have proof? You know... like the kind we've posted?
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jade Constantine At this point all is windy-bluster from those without the courage to fight their battles in space.
Speaking of gutless: do you have gathered enough courage yet to confirm (or deny) that pilot Sej Jamira was operating for the Star Fraction? ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:54:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Bacchanalian on 20/02/2010 00:54:47 Come now, Jade. You of all Star Fraction should have the stones to hold your head high and not shrink from your convictions.
It's no mystery that your pilots are behind this decision. Snippets of a conversation I had with Tomahawk Bliss in La Maison before my untimely removal from said venue.
[ 2010.01.20 08:21:25 ] Tomahawk Bliss > but NBSI is easier and more fun, so you can't knock it *grin* [ 2010.01.20 08:21:56 ] Bacchanalian > But as I mentioned earlier, Tomahawk--Star Fraction allowed Severance to build an outpost RIGHT in front of their eyes, because Severance exploited SF's RoE to use neutral freighters to build it. [ 2010.01.20 08:21:57 ] Tomahawk Bliss > i prefer NBSI as i enjoy shooting at most people [ 2010.01.20 08:22:11 ] Tomahawk Bliss > yup, NRDS is indeed hard [ 2010.01.20 08:22:22 ] Bacchanalian > It is fundamentally flawed, in my view. [ 2010.01.20 08:22:25 ] Tomahawk Bliss > but it has political rewards [ 2010.01.20 08:22:42 ] Bacchanalian > Again, not something I concern myself with. [ 2010.01.20 08:22:48 ] Tomahawk Bliss > yeah, actually both sides are. my opinion is a case by case basis choice [ 2010.01.20 08:25:10 ] Tomahawk Bliss > but as a political choice both have their pros and cons. I still lean towards NBSI flavor myself, were it up to me [ 2010.01.20 08:25:13 ] Bacchanalian > NRDS takes energy better expended towards other things, in my view. But then by my nature I am more results oriented. [ 2010.01.20 08:25:27 ] Tomahawk Bliss > can't argue with that
It is clear that at the very least, Daedalus X pilots are strongly in support of these changes. Do not change your mind now in the face of public outcry. To hell with public opinion. To hell with your reputation. Results are king. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 00:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mizhara Del'thul Again, the corp theft, and I do believe pilot Pal'taek as well, are hardly connected to this event. Well, unless you guys have proof? You know... like the kind we've posted?
I would like to post another word of wisdom from ms. Constantine herself about this situation. No doubt she intended it to be ironic:
Originally by: Jade Constantine When you start seeing ghosts it might be natural to start shooting at them.
Certainly its better to imagine they are "working for the enemy" than to simply admit you wanted to kill something and took out your frustration on a neutral.
Obviously, Ms. Constantine is reaching new heights of hypocrisy daily. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
dibblebill
Beyond Our Sins
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Posted - 2010.02.20 01:01:00 -
[27]
I'm curious what defines "space bravery" then, Jade? Would it be outnumbering your enemy 5-1 and then bragging about how good you are? I've seen plenty of that from you, as well as others. Clearly, since I have not been out flying in large groups, I am only an empty IGS voice with no reputation, and reputation is everything.
Tell me, is that how you judge yourself? By how others see you? You're not free. You are a slave to public affections, reliant entirely on the approval of others in order to feel justified, if you truly believe this. *SPLUD* |
Armand Visage
Empyrean Technology Inc
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Posted - 2010.02.20 01:09:00 -
[28]
Jade, while I'm certainly aware of the constant threat of sleeper agents and masked motives (especially given the current climate in Providence), and have no love for corp thieves, I have three simple questions that I hope you can answer in a simple yes/no manner, independent of your suspicions.
* Did the industrial pilot in question have neutral standings to Star Fraction at the time of Icarus' aggression? * Was he notified at any time prior to the shooting that he was suspected to be a agent of Misan? * At this time, is he currently set to hostile standings? * Has the standing change been communicated to him in a public manner? (I can find no such post in the IGS.)
For comparison and contrast, CVA runs on an extremely strict NRDS basis -- if they believe that neutrals in an area are agents monitoring an area for Ushra'Khan or other hostiles, they will first notify them of that suspicion and ask them politely to leave the system immediately. If they refuse or delay, their standings are changed at that point, they are notified as such, THEN they are attacked. Even when agents are extremely obvious, this procedure is still followed.
If SF will now fire on individuals BEFORE standings are changed, merely on the suspicion of them being a hostile agent -- no matter how well-founded or even evidenced -- then I can hardly consider them to be a friendly force in the Providence area. For that matter, even if the individual here admitted directly to being an agent for Misan, or if you have concrete evidence that has not yet been posted, I would think that the proper behavior would be to set hostile standings first, issue sufficient notification, and THEN attack.
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Icarus3
Gallente DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.20 01:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bacchanalian Edited by: Bacchanalian on 20/02/2010 00:54:47 It is clear that at the very least, Daedalus X pilots are strongly in support of these changes. Results are king.
Don't think for a second that you have any understanding of DX4 wants and desires. You do not speak on our behalf... I do
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.02.20 01:21:00 -
[30]
It wasn't a freighter full of civilians, but you gotta start somewhere. How very Caldari of you SF. ----- *results may vary*
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