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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:01:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 08/02/2010 11:04:11
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
1) There will be more entry points into low-sec.
Maybe, but probably true only in a very limited way (i.e. where 2 usable routes are more than 1).
Quote:
2) There are very few semi-permanent gatecamps on these border gates now. A lot less than high-sec huggers imagine.
Again only a half truth. There are semi permanent gatecamps in almost all systems that see a decent level of traffic. The frequency of gatecamps increase with the frequency of passages. Remove the high sec routes that connect then empires and add a few low sec routes and those routes will be camped.
Quote:
3) More entry points through low-sec and ways to get from point A to point B will mean less chance of running into these camps. Less rookie and newer pilots will have their first experience with low-sec result in a nasty explosion.
And again a half truth. Rookie and newer pilots will follow the autopilot, i.e. the shortest route, making it the most used. guess where the gatecamp will be?
Quote:
4) More ways to enter low-sec will spread the traffic meaning that the relatively few "professional" campers will see less profit for their time spent camping. Boredom ensues. More "professional" campers rediscover joy of solo and small gang pirating or PvPing. Ard rejoices!
And again the same half truth.
Quote:
5) True, many high-sec denizens live in high-sec because they are crippled with risk aversion. This will never change. They won't cross 3 or 5 low-sec systems to get from Rens to Jita no matter what.
Little interest in PvP is different from risk aversion.
Quote:
6) This will strengthen other markets at Jita's expense. It will free the other lesser hubs from adjusting their prices so much based on Jita. It will improve what's available around EVE instead of such a high concentration of goods in Jita. Good traders, industrialists and miners will rejoice. Those willing to travel through low-sec to get the best prices will thrive while the risk averse will be penalized.
Maybe.
Quote:
7)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates."
LOL. You have a very strange idea about how trading work.
A serious trader will not block 30 sell orders to cover a low sec station where he will see at most 1 of his orders move every day. To make a hub you need a location where at least hundreds of orders move every day.
Quote:
8) Oh yeah...macroers and afk autopiloters will cry rivers of tears.
In your dreams. Macroers will not care. AFK autopiloters with a little experience will simply select to always avoid low sec.
Quote:
TLDR: Fragmenting High-Sec creates more "edge". This will reduce predation by spreading the wolves out further. Fragmenting High-Sec will take our "gloablized" market back a step or two which will be good for the smart small businessman. Fragmenting High-Sec will likely strengthen bonds between high-sec corps by making their perceived universe a bit smaller.
PS - I get plenty of targets as it stands. You won't find a post on EVE-O where I have ever complained about targets despite living in low-sec for over 2 1/2 years and making my living almost exclusively from pirating.
When I comment on these types of threads it's from a perspective of what would improve the game and not my own narrow self-interests. Don't mistake me for a high-sec carebear again please.
LOL.
No, we take you for a low sec gankbear. "Get me more easy targets."
What is best for you is not automatically best for the game.
Originally by: XXSketchxx
so no trade hubs exist in NPC 0.0? I think you might want to take a closer look...
Unless your definition of trade hub is very different from mine, no, there aren't trade hubs in low sec.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:24:00 -
[92]
Venkul, you continue to post a lot of words on these forums to say the same thing over and over again: "I don't get EVE."
Carry on.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:54:00 -
[93]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 08/02/2010 13:54:48
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Unless your definition of trade hub is very different from mine, no, there aren't trade hubs in low sec.
Read again moron. I implied there are trade hubs in NPC 0.0, which there are (I understand a high sec pubbie like yourself would not know this). I then went on to imply that if there were a dedicated black market, the only place for pirate shisp/modules/implants to be sold, hubs would form in low sec. Nowhere did I say there are hubs currently in low sec.
Nice try at reading comprehension though. Keep on whining about how scary low sec is. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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TimMc
Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:19:00 -
[94]
Edited by: TimMc on 08/02/2010 15:21:13 Make npcs fight like sleepers and require pvp fits to fight. both plexes and belts. means pirates don't get a free ride whenever we find someone in a belt.
As much as I like the idea of pirate ships/fittings being illegal, surely there will be so many tears in highsec when carebears get concorded for having a dread guristas fitted golem.
Boosting the income from lowsec finally would be good. Alot of exploration sites that are almost of the grade of un-upgraded nullsec. Need more level 4 agents aswell.
Corrupt corporations also would be interesting. With a high enough corp standing, they would ignore aggression near their station and should give benefits for continued base in their station (agents availible to all corp members, reduced cost for manufacture/research/office/contracts). However navy sentries should never ignore aggression.
Edit: Removing highsec links between at war factions would also be a good idea. Don't know why caldari/amarr to gallente/minmatar would have safe links to eachother. Links between friendly factions should be few but present. Hopefully this create a more empire divide than their is now.
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:20:00 -
[95]
I support this idea!
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:46:00 -
[96]
Originally by: TimMc
Corrupt corporations also would be interesting. With a high enough corp standing, they would ignore aggression near their station and should give benefits for continued base in their station (agents availible to all corp members, reduced cost for manufacture/research/office/contracts). However navy sentries should never ignore aggression.
Corrupt corporations.. Hmm, maybe some of the corps could have ties to some criminal corps, maybe Creodron could supply Serpentis lp rewards at a higher price... that kind of thing too. And yeah paying off a corporation so their sentries dont fire at your alliance...
But I agree navy/gate sentries should always act properly. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Boss Lemming
BOUNTY. HUNTER. MINING. EXSPLORATION. CORPORATION. HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:21:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Venkul Mul hurr durr
This is what highsec humpers actually believe
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De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:40:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Boss Lemming
Originally by: Venkul Mul hurr durr
This is what highsec humpers actually believe
Classic. Oh and supporting boost to low sec fo sho.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.08 22:23:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 08/02/2010 22:24:51
Originally by: XXSketchxx Edited by: XXSketchxx on 08/02/2010 13:54:48
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Unless your definition of trade hub is very different from mine, no, there aren't trade hubs in low sec.
Read again moron. I implied there are trade hubs in NPC 0.0, which there are (I understand a high sec pubbie like yourself would not know this). I then went on to imply that if there were a dedicated black market, the only place for pirate shisp/modules/implants to be sold, hubs would form in low sec. Nowhere did I say there are hubs currently in low sec.
Nice try at reading comprehension though. Keep on whining about how scary low sec is.
So your definition of "trade hub" is a station in Delve with 30 costumers in a day?
You see, I have spent 1 year there and know very how "trade hubs" in 0.0 work.
Translation for your intellect: those aren't hubs they are very small local markets.
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Venkul, you continue to post a lot of words on these forums to say the same thing over and over again: "I don't get EVE."
Carry on.
No, I am saying "I don't want to play EVE your way".
And find pretty fastidious your attempts to force me to play how you want.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.02.08 23:02:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 08/02/2010 23:02:14
Originally by: Venkul Mul
So your definition of "trade hub" is a station in Delve with 30 costumers in a day?
You see, I have spent 1 year there and know very how "trade hubs" in 0.0 work.
Translation for your intellect: those aren't hubs they are very small local markets.
How is this an argument against trying to stimulate the low sec market so that it develops trade centers?
Quote:
No, I am saying "I don't want to play EVE your way".
And find pretty fastidious your attempts to force me to play how you want.
Way to mangle a sentence.
You're idea of being forced into anything is a simple diversion with no basis. None of the ideas here are forcing you into to low sec and don’t affect high sec (except for the pirate ship limit which was pretty much thrown out). As such your continued presence in the thread is somewhat baffling. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with high-sec. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Commoner
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 23:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Rico Minali lets not make this an argument thread please.
There are several misconceptions about lowsec that hisec people make, the main one being they think lowsec people want hisec people to come there to be ganked. This is pretty much totally wrong. Some pirates wouldlike to get more kills on gatecamps yeah.
BUT for the most part lowsec entities are fightin each other on a day to day basis, mostly we dont give a rats ass if carebears dont come down...
This thread is about creating a better environment for those people, the people who live in lowsec. I also have lived in lowsec for years, I AM a pirate, but if you look at my corps stats, 99% of the kills are combat ships, pvp fitted by OTHER lowsec entities.
So, lets keep this on track and not make an argument thread.
Well to make a living off piracy, you'd need a few of those once in a while. Living off T2 droppings doesn't work all that well if you lose a ship now and then.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:31:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jin Nib Edited by: Jin Nib on 08/02/2010 23:02:14
Originally by: Venkul Mul
So your definition of "trade hub" is a station in Delve with 30 costumers in a day?
You see, I have spent 1 year there and know very how "trade hubs" in 0.0 work.
Translation for your intellect: those aren't hubs they are very small local markets.
How is this an argument against trying to stimulate the low sec market so that it develops trade centers?
It is a reply about using 0.0 trade as an example of "developed" trade hubs.
Originally by: XXSketchxx
so no trade hubs exist in NPC 0.0? I think you might want to take a closer look...
Clear now?
Quote:
Quote:
No, I am saying "I don't want to play EVE your way".
And find pretty fastidious your attempts to force me to play how you want.
Way to mangle a sentence.
You're idea of being forced into anything is a simple diversion with no basis. None of the ideas here are forcing you into to low sec and donĘt affect high sec (except for the pirate ship limit which was pretty much thrown out). As such your continued presence in the thread is somewhat baffling. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with high-sec.
So breaking the high sec connection between empires has nothing to do with high sec? Removing those routes is not forcing me to use low sec routes to trade?
At least read the posts to wich I am replying.
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:59:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Commoner
There are several misconceptions about lowsec that hisec people make, the main one being they think lowsec people want hisec people to come there to be ganked. This is pretty much totally wrong. Some pirates wouldlike to get more kills on gatecamps yeah.
BUT for the most part lowsec entities are fightin each other on a day to day basis, mostly we dont give a rats ass if carebears dont come down...
This thread is about creating a better environment for those people, the people who live in lowsec. I also have lived in lowsec for years, I AM a pirate, but if you look at my corps stats, 99% of the kills are combat ships, pvp fitted by OTHER lowsec entities.
quote]
Well to make a living off piracy, you'd need a few of those once in a while. Living off T2 droppings doesn't work all that well if you lose a ship now and then.
Yep, and that is a problem, however, with the ideas in this thread and so on, maybe pirates can actually make some isk in lowsec too, and not by ganking carebears. though to be honest carebears usually have such failures of boats the drops are rubbish anyway, the most isk we ever make is from faction fitted pvp boats, capitals and killing pos's, and that is way out of carebear jurisdiction... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.02.09 02:53:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 09/02/2010 02:53:33
Originally by: Venkul Mul So breaking the high sec connection between empires has nothing to do with high sec? Removing those routes is not forcing me to use low sec routes to trade?
At least read the posts to wich I am replying.
Actually the idea was to maintain high-sec tunnels through low-sec borders.
And I'm not the one with trouble understanding what it is you are replying to, you are. You cant seem to maintain your concentration past the post immediately in front of you.
As for what you are replying to:
Quote: 7)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates."
Quote: LOL. You have a very strange idea about how trading work.
A serious trader will not block 30 sell orders to cover a low sec station where he will see at most 1 of his orders move every day. To make a hub you need a location where at least hundreds of orders move every day.
In other words this is the way the argument is going:
Some-guy: It will help stimulate the economy. You: No, they don't have trade hubs out there because hubs are big.
You've made the same argument with xxSketchxx. Notice how what you are talking about has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Notice that you aren't actually presenting any sort of coherent argument or case what so ever? -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.09 07:30:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Jin Nib Edited by: Jin Nib on 09/02/2010 02:53:33
Originally by: Venkul Mul So breaking the high sec connection between empires has nothing to do with high sec? Removing those routes is not forcing me to use low sec routes to trade?
At least read the posts to wich I am replying.
Actually the idea was to maintain high-sec tunnels through low-sec borders.
False. The post was about "Fragmenting High-sec" and that don't include high sec tunnels.
Originally by: Jin Nib
And I'm not the one with trouble understanding what it is you are replying to, you are. You cant seem to maintain your concentration past the post immediately in front of you.
As for what you are replying to:
Quote: 7)It will encourage entrepreneurial traders to stock low-sec: "Hey, I gotta go through there (low-sec) anyway to make 10% more in Jita. I might as well just put my goods on the market there and reap 25 to 75% more profit off the ebil piwates."
Quote: LOL. You have a very strange idea about how trading work.
A serious trader will not block 30 sell orders to cover a low sec station where he will see at most 1 of his orders move every day. To make a hub you need a location where at least hundreds of orders move every day.
In other words this is the way the argument is going:
Some-guy: It will help stimulate the economy. You: No, they don't have trade hubs out there because hubs are big.
You've made the same argument with xxSketchxx. Notice how what you are talking about has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Notice that you aren't actually presenting any sort of coherent argument or case what so ever?
Jib, maybe you missed it, but it is already possible to sell in low sec. Simply for people that trade more that a few pieces it is not interesting as the buyers are too few.
Making it a bit more difficult to move between the empire will not change that in any way.
No one will stop in low sec to buy the module he desperately need.
Pirates will still use alts to buy stuff in high sec at low prices, maybe in a regional hub instead of Jita, but that would simply increase the size of the high sec regional hubs.
0.0 people will still buy from a hub in high sec and cyno the stuff to 0.0 as ssoon as they leave high sec.
Can you give a real reason why fragmenting the empires would increase low sec trade?
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.09 10:30:00 -
[106]
drop the discussion, this isnt an argument thread, there are alot of ideas here, sop concentrating on the one that you dont like... It is an ideas thread, lets keep it at that. Im not goingto delete out ideas because a few people dont like it.
The idea here is to talk through ideas, you have had your say on what you do or dont like, now drop that and move on. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.02.09 16:27:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Rico Minali The idea here is to talk through ideas, you have had your say on what you do or dont like, now drop that and move on.
The whole point of this forum section is to do just that. Nitpick at proposed ideas, particularly bad ones that need more work.
We both know no one will 'drop it'.
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10/10: Where is your God now? |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.02.09 16:53:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Bagehi on 09/02/2010 16:53:20 Improving low sec is a good thing. Making it a middle ground between the mining/missioning of high sec and the sov wars of 0.0 would be perfect.
This is a good idea as long as the flip side is also true. Whereas outlaws can build their empire of drugs, sex, rock-n-roll, and piracy, the cuddly carebear lovers (affectionately known as anti-pirates) should also be able to build up something similar but opposite to the piracy boost.
Fix Local |
XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.09 17:05:00 -
[109]
Venkul you are a moron. There are a market hubs in npc 0.0.
Obviously they dont have Jita prices. Thats what you pay for by shopping in 0.0
Stop posting _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.02.09 17:20:00 -
[110]
Originally by: XXSketchxx Venkul you are a moron. There are a market hubs in npc 0.0.
Obviously they dont have Jita prices. Thats what you pay for by shopping in 0.0
Stop posting
Amusingly enough, many 0.0 market hubs have prices that beat most high sec prices. It has to do with the number of players per station. 0.0 simply has a lot of players per station (except in CVA space).
Fix Local |
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Mynxee
Hellcats HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.02.10 20:47:00 -
[111]
Supporting the good discussion here about making low sec a unique and viable place in its own right.
Bump It! | My Blog: Life in Low Sec |
Swarthy Avenger
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Posted - 2010.02.11 00:08:00 -
[112]
Sorry, but OUTLAW is just a horrible name for an Eve expansion. Consider the past expansion names:
Castor Exodus Exodus: Cold War Exodus: Red Moon Rising Bloodlines Revelations I & II Trinity Empyrean Age Quantum Rise Apocrypha Dominion
Outlaw just doesn't really fit in.
Nemesis
Would be my vote for an appropriate name for an expansion dealing with New Eden's criminal underground.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.11 01:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Swarthy Avenger
Nemesis
Would be my vote for an appropriate name for an expansion dealing with New Eden's criminal underground.
Corruption _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.11 09:06:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 09/02/2010 16:53:20 Improving low sec is a good thing. Making it a middle ground between the mining/missioning of high sec and the sov wars of 0.0 would be perfect.
This is a good idea as long as the flip side is also true. Whereas outlaws can build their empire of drugs, sex, rock-n-roll, and piracy, the cuddly carebear lovers (affectionately known as anti-pirates) should also be able to build up something similar but opposite to the piracy boost.
Exactly this, it isnt a piracy boost, its a lowsec boost, whatever you do in lowsec.
And yeah Outlaw isnt the best name but the name wasnt important, getting it noticed and acted on is! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Swarthy Avenger
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Posted - 2010.02.11 17:23:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Rico Minali
And yeah Outlaw isnt the best name but the name wasnt important, getting it noticed and acted on is!
Of course. I've already supported this thread on my main. Guess I should support it on this alt too.
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Viridiana Sovari
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Posted - 2010.02.13 11:37:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Viridiana Sovari on 13/02/2010 11:37:39 Great ideas all round, some might not be poplular, but your nevre going to make everyone happy. Making the game a wholelot more interesting is more important than keeping one type of player happy. Fully supported, lowsec needs a big boost, and not to faction warfare...
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Jon Engel
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2010.02.13 14:12:00 -
[117]
One of the things I have always wanted to see was Pirate NPC stations in Lowsec. Not a lot of them, and of course no agents so people can run Pirate missions in lowsec without bothering to travel to 0.0.
Maybe you gotta scan them down or something and then you can dock up and do some stuff.
I would just like to see more "black market" stuff going on in Lowsec associated with pirate npcs. Maybe Syndicate or Angels or Serpentis keep a station in Placid and sell Narcotics to pod pilots who take them to other Stations and sell them.
Or Sansha's raid lowsec planets for slaves and sell them to pod pilots who have to smuggle them to Amarr or Khanid or even other Sansha stations in 0.0 for resale.
All in all, lowsec is becoming nothing more than a stomping ground for FW corps. Less of this and more of the underworld schtuff that I think everyone wants to see.
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Suedomza Ralav
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Posted - 2010.02.13 16:42:00 -
[118]
Off the wall ideas to improve lowsec
1. Change gateguns. Make several different types, each targeting different sized ships. The guns hit for different damage, depending on their preferred target size. Frig guns only target frigs and bigger, and do less damage. BS guns hit for huge damage, but only attack BS and caps. Each gate has a different mix of these guns, depending on sec status. A .4 system would have a mix of all guns, while a .1 might only have 1 or 2 of the frig or cruisers sizes, and be heavily loaded with anti-bs and anti-cap guns.
2. Make different security levels mean something. .4 does not allow cynos, .3 allows anchoring of certain sec dependent POS mods (like now), .2 removes sec-status hit for killing anyone with negative status, .1 removes all sec-status hits.
3. Remove killmails.
4. Remove all market taxes in low-sec
5. Have several "industry" centers in each region with 5x the regular number of manufacture, copy, invention, and research slots.
6. drastically increase wormhole generation in low-sec. Have wormholes be several times more likely in a low-sec system them hi-sec or 0.0
7. Introduce exploration combat sites with decent rewards, and the NPCs use sleeper AI. They may switch targets and attack any incoming pirates, instead of the PVE player being easily killed because they take all the damage from the NPCs and the player pirates.
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.02.13 21:55:00 -
[119]
I approve of these suggestions. -
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CyberGh0st
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.16 20:49:00 -
[120]
Edited by: CyberGh0st on 16/02/2010 20:52:50
Originally by: Rico Minali Edited by: Rico Minali on 30/01/2010 11:20:11 Edited by: Rico Minali on 11/01/2010 18:12:02 Also to Empire Dweller, since I cant quote 2 people at once... So this is about his smartbomb rubbish too.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Rico Minali
TL, DR: make pirating easier
Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight.
So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec.
So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec.
Here go the hisec emo boys.. If you read the post, it is not about pirating you rich folk of hisec, its about making lowsec a better playing environment for those who WANT to live there. If you dont want risk, dont go to lowsec, it isnt as though hisec is small...
Also, I have never lit a smartbomb in my life, Ive never even fitted one, check my corp on battleclinic if you like, you will see it full of combat ships flown by combat organisations. And they wont be in the losses section, so please be quiet on this one.
So, can we have comments and ideas from the people who live in lowsec, not the ones whod like to make it safe.
Agreed, I see some cool suggestions in the OP.
Edit : besides changing Empire space and adding lowsec between the 4 empires, I don't like that.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
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