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Magnus Orin
United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:10:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 15/01/2010 19:11:16
I'm 100% in favour of #7.
I want there to be no possible way to go from Minmatar space to Amarr space without traversing lowsec etc.
This could create multiple trade route pipes. The shortest ones would most likely be near permanently camped, creating a lucrative smuggling business, as daring pilots in cov-ops, fast frigates, or cov ops haulers get hired to break through these camps to trade inter-regionally (Smuggling should not be versus npcs, it should be versus other players).
You could basically chose to go;
A) through that one low sec jump from region to region that is most certainly camped, or
b) you can choose to take a more round about route that would lead through 4-5 or more low sec jumps, increasing your exposure, but reducing the risk per jump.
There is too much high sec in the game. Although I do agree, that beyond what I've said above low sec needs a real reason to attract the criminals of Eve.
I really hope that a low sec revamp is included with the Incarna expansion, whenever it comes. I hate the idea of WIS for the sake of WIS, but if it could be coupled with nefarious deeds that could only be accomplished in low sec stations, I feel the two could be good bed-partners for an awesome expansion.
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Meredith Midnight
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:21:00 -
[32]
Quote: 3: The BlackMarket, have a market that can ONLY be accessed when in lowsec, and with items that can ONLY be sold on the black market. All 'illegal' items moved onto this market. Maybe with npc smuggling items too. see also 4.
I would like there to be an option that would allow pirates to gather bribery passes, so that you can smuggle drugs into highsec without having to deal with customs agents scanning you down and fining you, the dialog box that comes up telling you to pay a fine or die would now have a 3rd option to 'bribe'.
Also, transfer of killrights, people can sell their killrights on the market. That would make for an awesome black market. I can see it now, right click on kill rights, 'generate kill right certificate' and poof a new item comes up in your inventory that you can put for sale/contract (like a PLEX), with the expiration date in the name.. like "John doe - 10:10:10 10/10/10" - 1 isk.
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De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:32:00 -
[33]
I support the idea of giving lowsec a reason to go there. This is the central issue with lowsec's lack of population. And here's the thing - all these people talk about remove high sec, limit high sec routes to place in order to FORCE people into lowsec. Forcing people to do things they don't want to do generally fails - you have to make them want to do it, which means incentivizing low sec, not nerfing high security space.
Let's face it, lowsec has all the disadvantages of nullsec, and none of the advantages. You can't claim the systems, so the sov holding alliances have no real reason to maintain a presence. The difference in reward is minimal when compared to the suddenly increased risk versus high security space.
When you get right down to it, wormholes are what low sec should have been in the first place. It needs to have something unique in order to draw people there, or you get exactly what we have now - a vast swath of space that people rarely visit because there's no reason for them to do so. --Vel
Brand new year, same old attitude. |
Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Meredith Midnight I would like there to be an option that would allow pirates to gather bribery passes, so that you can smuggle drugs into highsec without having to deal with customs agents scanning you down and fining you, the dialog box that comes up telling you to pay a fine or die would now have a 3rd option to 'bribe'.
Such as bribing the police to allow an outlaw to operate in high-sec for a limited time without being fired upon?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.15 20:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Originally by: Venkul Mul Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight. [...] You can already make more isk running mission in low sec than in high sec. Risk is higher but reward is higher too.
Spoken like someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in a pirate's shoes. Or, err. Pod. It's extremely difficult to get into a fight with someone that doesn't want to be caught.
Don't believe me? I'll take my nub ship to any low sec system of your choosing. I won't dock up. I'll give you 4 hours to hunt me down and kill me. 4 full hours of glorified hunt-the-griffin. You won't be able to catch me.
Also, I'm not sure how many missions you have run in low-sec, but the rewards are not significantly larger. It is barely noticeable, especially when compared to the rat bounties / salvage / etc. And yes, I have run L3s and L4s in low-sec (and L1s in null-sec, woo!).
Removing half of the quote change completely the meaning.
Quote: Low sec problem is that pirating is easy. It is extremely easy to find targets (if they are there) and kill them if they aren't there searching for a fight.
So most people that is not interested in pirating spend as little time as possible in low sec.
So making pirating even easier will not help you. It will simply push even more people away from low sec.
For your dare, if you can do something meaningful in those 4 hours beside jumping from safespot to safespot, you are very good (and using a ship with a extremely low signature).
Quote: Also, I'm not sure how many missions you have run in low-sec, but the rewards are not significantly larger.
Only partially true. How much SP you have in social skills? How well you have chosen you corporation, based on value of the LP (Gallente LP store is the worse in my eyes)?
The largest gain and difference between high sec rewards and low sec missions come from LP and to capitalize it to the max you need high levels of SP in the special connection skills and use a corporation with a good LP store.
When you get 3.000+ extra SP each mission and convert them at 2.500 isk/LP you can gain an extra 15 million/hour if you can run the missions.
The problem is that it easy to find you and disrupt what you are doing.
So making it even easier to disrupt low sec activities will not help populating it and I doubt it will increase the fun of those living there.
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.16 08:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Andrea Griffin Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 15/01/2010 19:38:18
Originally by: Meredith Midnight I would like there to be an option that would allow pirates to gather bribery passes, so that you can smuggle drugs into highsec without having to deal with customs agents scanning you down and fining you, the dialog box that comes up telling you to pay a fine or die would now have a 3rd option to 'bribe'.
Such as bribing the police to allow an outlaw to operate in high-sec for a limited time without being fired upon?
Edit: What about missions that send flashy red people into high-sec? "We need someone to take care of a 'problem' in a very discreet manner... You will be able to access this system for the duration of the mission. Don't worry, I've made certain that the local law enforcement will turn a blind eye to your presence for now."
I like this idea.. But could be abused to allow criminals into hisec by acceptinga a mission, then using the time to wreak havok in hisec... There would need to be some safeguard to stop this, like for instance, if you warp anywhere except to the mission point, concord will still get you.
And will the people arguing here stop it, this is NOT about making life harder for carebears, it isnt a hisec versus lowsec argument, it is for the sake and enjoyment of lowsec, making it a better playing environment for anyone who wants to live there. I dont care if hisec folks come to lowsec or not, I am interested in making lowsec enjoyable by itself. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.17 18:26:00 -
[37]
I have updated the original post to remove the most unpopular/unviable bits. (not including the emo posts that are convinced I am just trying to get more carebears into lowsec to gang, when the oposite is true, what this is about is making lowsec a place for teh people who want to live there, not the occasional visitor).
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Aloriana Jacques
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.01.17 19:27:00 -
[38]
I encourage a much needed low-sec boost to give it more purpose. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Matting
NQX Innovations HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.25 05:18:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Matting on 25/01/2010 05:27:51 I have supported this but does need more refining and discussion.
I love the black market idea but I think more content would need to be developed for this to really work.
I want to discuss missions as I think there is an imbalance with low-sec rewards for standard missions. The people who aren't newbies that do mission in low-sec do it either for the challenge/something different or because they are pirates and don't have access to high sec.
I think currently the system is very skewed towards the hunter/attacker and while balancing this doesn't mean I want more carebears in low-sec. It means more corps would be willing to setup in low-sec for better rewards and protect their area which in turn should result in more territorial fights.
Issues with the current balance. - Only the LP increases for doing low-sec missions this is only around 1/3 of the rewards. - Scanning out mission runners (in low sec) is too easy now. - Salvaging/Looting is a big component of rewards and you are very much a sitting duck again especially if you hand the mission in so its not dead space (probe your exact position not just the first gate). - Bounties in missions don't change for being in low-sec - Possibility of being camped in station or blocked from missions if too many pirates always passing through.
Now not all of these need fixing as such but they do add up to mean that low-sec missions just return such a crap reward for the risks and possible denial to run them.
With better rewards it would make corps/groups move out there and fight for their mission spots. Currently the rewards are so bad high sec corps wouldn't even try. This may sound like getting bears in low-sec but to me a bear won't come out even with high rewards, these corps are the ones who skip low-sec as even a viable option and go straight out to 0.0 for the riches out there.
GCC Timer - I think this should be a bit more dynamic, say in .1 its only 5mins and scales up to 15mins at .4 space. Though even I feel 15mins is too much sometimes, if your in a small ship you are very limited in what you can do and most of the time I dock up or cloak while i wait out the timer. It seems a waste of time when you only have 1-2 hours to play.
I really do like the idea of corps of all kinds being able to live in low-sec and live off the area instead of relying on alts for isk. Yes yes some pirates are very successful but this does seem very dependent on timezone and low-sec in my TZ (+10) can be fairly quiet.
I think another easy way to boost low-sec is with loot/salvage. Make the drop dynamic depending on if its >= .5 or < .5 with more higher meta loot and more salvage.
Wormholes were a good proof that some high-sec players (not care bears) will go to where the profits are, people die in WH's but a lot still do it because the rewards are great enough to factor in a loss every now and then.
One thing i don't want happening in low-sec is buying protection from gate guns so they don't shoot you with GCC. (Stations guns I'm not sure on yet)
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.26 11:49:00 -
[40]
Good ideas coming in, this does need attention,so lets keep it atthe top.
Lowsec should be a fun, immersive environment all on its own, notg just a 'middle ground' for hi and 0.0.
So, get to the top and get more ideas in,lets get lowsec noticed and acted upon... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
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Alax Ray
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Posted - 2010.01.26 21:44:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Alax Ray on 26/01/2010 21:45:01 Remove insurance payoff if ship was lost in lowsec/nullsec. Instead add bounty on account (not character) who blown the ship as percent of insurance payoff. Of course don't add bounty if you was defending. Proportional bounty will be payed to anyone doing collateral damage to account's (of any character) property, but less, than cost of lost property. nullsec damage doesn't counts. Add fast giving PvP missions to hunt high-bounties outlaws with real-time update. Add modules/skills to do pirating without revealing identity and thus avoiding hurting sec status and receiving bounties. Longer fight/bigger fleet - less chances to save anonymity.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.26 23:30:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Alax Ray
There are 101 way to make lowsec lively place.
This +. Why CCP just lets it languish there is beyond me. But I suppose I should have a bit of patience. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.27 10:56:00 -
[43]
I am linking a thread and proposal I made about changing the autobalancer for the mission payout so that they would be more "fair" for low sec/0.0.
If you think it is a acceptable proposal support it (I haven't placed it in this thread as I think that placing it here would mean losing that suggestion under several other proposals).
Low sec missions and the autobalancer
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Cearain
ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.27 15:45:00 -
[44]
some good ideas here.
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XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.27 16:26:00 -
[45]
1. Yep 2. Please yes 3. Makes sense. 4. Absolutely 5. Vague but definitely needs looking into. 6. Could be interesting 7. Absolutely; the fact that you can travel almost anywhere in Empire with Concord support is silly; at the very least there should be low sec borders between the warring Empires. This would boost regional markets a lot as well.
Low sec should truly be the criminal underworld. As it is now, its just no-mans land _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Alax Ray
There are 101 way to make lowsec lively place.
This +. Why CCP just lets it languish there is beyond me. But I suppose I should have a bit of patience.
A bit of patience wont work... You need to make a noise! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE OF LOWSEC!
And not Faction war... That is almost irrelevent to the people who live in lowsec, it is an entirely different event.
What we are talking about there are the criminals, outlaws, gangs and warlords who live here, the anti pirates and bounty hunters who stalk there and lowsec industrials, the smugglers, black market dealers, teh adventurous from hisec wanting a little action., miners willing to risk the danger.. Or willing to pay the criminals to be left alone...
Lowsec should be a dynamic environment, dark and dangerous, but with its own politics and workings...
CCP listen! That is the lowsec we want! Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Lord FunkyMunky
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:31:00 -
[47]
I'm not even a pirate and i know lowsec needs love, and to be honest i must say i LOVE all of these suggestions.
I really hope that Expansion OUTLAW is planned.
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BECAUSE'OF FALCON
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:35:00 -
[48]
Supported for awesome ideas
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.01.29 21:15:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Lord Helghast on 29/01/2010 21:16:05 Not a pirate but know a few, and read their blogs etc, and as a highsec/nullsec dweller, Outlaws and Lowsec need some love...
But i also thing their should be some difference between 0.4-0.1 right now their just numbers theirs no actual difference that i can tell something needs to make that change....
So lowsec sovereignty of sorts, well not sovereignty but im sure we can come up with an underworld crime syndicate type name.
EDIT: what i find most hysterical about lowsec is... lowsec mining = EPIC FAIL, its literally useless why ever EVER EVER EVER risk lowsec mining or even ninja mining it the ores worth less than every other highsec ore! How about drug running missions in lowsec, kinda like courier missions that pay better but between lowsec areas, and always to do with drugs and carry drugs or manufacturing drugs in lowsec. 100% lowsec on both sides, designed for pirates and cloaky haulers etc.
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Last Wolf
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.01.30 04:31:00 -
[50]
I wish there was a place similer to high sec for pirates, meaning ONLY pirates could enter. If you have a sec status of -4.9 or higher, YOU get shot on sight. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2010.01.30 11:09:00 -
[51]
Like the ideas, except the low sec boarder idea. its hard enough running a trade operation.
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.30 11:20:00 -
[52]
It couldnt be like a single route channel from empire to empire anyway, but many crossing points, with back routes etc.
It just makes sense that these empires who are supposed tp be enemies, are joined at the hip.. But, say minnie and gallente space could be joined, and caldari and amarr, as they are allies... Just thoughts here anyway.
Many many good ideas... Get more!
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
159Hunter
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Posted - 2010.01.30 11:54:00 -
[53]
Lowsec needs a boost for sure, don't agrre on all your points but in general: I like it
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.30 16:03:00 -
[54]
I have taken this idea to the ideas and features forum:
OUTLAW
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 18:25:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 30/01/2010 18:25:40 We really need outlaw expansion.
Also several game mechanics related to less legal activity and low sec needs real working. Meaning not only some random boost this and that but something real. I think most of people consider low sec as the "real" outlaw space because it's where "flashy" people are. I think this should be the viewpoint when making up some new stuff. Problem with recent "low sec oomphs" is that they were really not helping the outlaw kind of activity much.
I don't really know how you could point out one single thing which needs working on because there's so much. But generally being an outlaw trying to catch miners/haulers does not really work that well. As in risking 300mil ship to kill 500k hauler which might drop you nothing except warp stabs then hear him complaining about how easy it's to shoot a hauler. That's after you've been waiting hours to see anyone.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.01.31 10:00:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 31/01/2010 10:03:10 Sounds like you're looking to give lowsec more of a piratey feel, but the problem is that no matter how much you spruce up the "dark underbelly" furniture, the fact remains that the entire lifestyle is pointless if lowsec isn't profitable for the empire folk to come down there and make their fortune/get hunted.
The key to a populated lowsec is not to make it a better place for pirates, but to make it a better place for everyone else, who the pirates can then prey upon.
And here is the especially big kicker: Carebear McMissionrunner needs to be able to make so much ISK in lowsec that they have a good chance of getting ganked on a semi-regular basis, and still coming out ahead of empire earnings. In short, you need to be able to easily pull in >50 mil/hr in lowsec. And since that would destroy the game's economy, it isn't going to happen.
Empire incentives are just too high for lowsec to compete with all of its risks.
Realistically, EVE has the tools to let players solve this problem themelves. The problem is that if some corp took it upon themselves to police and tax a lowsec constellation or two in order to grow a ratting/trading population, that simply instantly becomes "the place to pirate" and there are far more people looking to prey upon those trying to build up an economy than there are people to support it. The ratio to "Upstanding citizens trying to build wealth and infrastructure" to "Pirates who just want a piece of someone's pie" is way too far off to be effective.
In short: Pirates prey on society, they're the seedy underbelly. Society thrives on social contract theory. EVE's population ignores social contract theory. Society ceases to exist (in lowsec), the underbelly has nothing to prey on, and ceases to exist. Lowsec lays barren.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.31 18:17:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame stuff
Incorrect, the point isn't about pirates vs's non pie's. It's about making low-sec a viable place to live without *****ing out an empire alt to pay for things. Mission runners really dont need more places to play, the epitome of what they want already exist in high sec. This is about the people who dont like high sec and don't like missions and who already want to live in low sec, about giving them the means to do so. That's all. Leave the Pie's vs Bears out of this. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Rico Minali
Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.31 19:26:00 -
[58]
As above.. the point isnt to make piarcy easier, its to make lowsec a place with some substance, wjere the pirates fight each other for dominanice, where anit pirate or strong industrials with combat capability can carve out a little turf for themselves, for legal or illegal activities. It isnt about getting people to visit lowsec to make isk/get gamked, its abouit ,aking lowsec a viable place to live, with its own politics and culture.. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Aynen
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Posted - 2010.01.31 21:34:00 -
[59]
On Item 3: If things gotten from the LP stores of pirate faction agents where illegal in high-sec, unless smuggled to a specific type of agents in high sec who can make the item legal, after which it can be sold on the normal market in high sec, then you have a valid smuggling mechanic that isn't based on NPC items that players have no use for. On most of the other ideas I have this to say: most players who stick to high-sec don't do so because the rewards in high-sec are higher, they do it because they have no interest in getting into pvp action on anyone's terms but their own, if ever. If all the lvl 4 agens where moved into low-sec, a lot of missioning high-sec players would simply do more lvl 3s, and earn less, and be very disgrunted. But most won't go to low-sec.
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.01 04:32:00 -
[60]
I really like where this is going, you've got some really good ideas there.
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