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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Melleia
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Posted - 2009.12.21 08:34:00 -
[571]
/me contemplates buying another load of Technetium <_<
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:24:00 -
[572]
Edited by: Akita T on 21/12/2009 10:25:18
To be fair, I think right now we are in a modestly sized technetium speculation bubble on top of the expected price increase trend... not exactly a bad thing, but probably not the best moment to buy large amounts of technetium if you want a quick buck (if you want to hold it long term however, this might be as good of a moment as any).
P.S. ROFL, this thread already broke the view count of the MD stickies
_
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Melleia
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:26:00 -
[573]
Speak of the devil...the bubble popped a little bit.
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Xavier Hayes
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:37:00 -
[574]
There is no reason that technetium can't be bought out and listed at 180k a unit, to be honest.
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Gella Darru
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:41:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Xavier Hayes There is no reason that technetium can't be bought out and listed at 180k a unit, to be honest.
Uhm, well I guess one "reason" could be that nobody has the liquid isk to actually do that right now.
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BlondieBC
Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Missions
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:44:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Gella Darru
Originally by: Xavier Hayes There is no reason that technetium can't be bought out and listed at 180k a unit, to be honest.
Uhm, well I guess one "reason" could be that nobody has the liquid isk to actually do that right now.
Where is EBank, when we need them ?? :)
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Xavier Hayes
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:54:00 -
[577]
Actually, after a quick calculation of volume/cost, it wouldn't reuire that large a chunk of isk tbh. Some of us have the amount...
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:48:00 -
[578]
Edited by: Mahke on 21/12/2009 19:51:36 Instead of fullerides going up to converge with tech, tech collapsed down
Sold 2.5mil fullerides to sell orders down to 920 at a loss (130mil or so, made billions form moon mineral speculation so oh well, win some lose some) to get the liquidity I need to put a floor under tech prices so as to protect the rest of my investment. Buy orders up 1.5k so far, I'll hopefully have the floor at a decent level by tonight. Might work out badly but, someone has to do it .
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:20:00 -
[579]
I am personally loving the volatility today, netted 500m in a few hours between some well-timed shorts and trading on the spread
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar Celtic industries The AsyIum
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:27:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Mahke Edited by: Mahke on 21/12/2009 19:51:36 Instead of fullerides going up to converge with tech, tech collapsed down
Sold 2.5mil fullerides to sell orders down to 920 at a loss (130mil or so, made billions form moon mineral speculation so oh well, win some lose some) to get the liquidity I need to put a floor under tech prices so as to protect the rest of my investment. Buy orders up 1.5k so far, I'll hopefully have the floor at a decent level by tonight. Might work out badly but, someone has to do it .
Can you please not do that? Some of us are trying to cause a crash here
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EvilCheez
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Posted - 2009.12.21 22:08:00 -
[581]
Out of tech myself, but it will be interesting to see if we can tell when TornSoul fills that 100B bond by watching moongoo.
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar Celtic industries The AsyIum
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Posted - 2009.12.21 22:24:00 -
[582]
Originally by: EvilCheez Out of tech myself, but it will be interesting to see if we can tell when TornSoul fills that 100B bond by watching moongoo.
With the quantity of it TS will get as collateral he could sell while crashing the market, then buy up again low as it recovers... about as close as you can get to selling short in EvE
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.12.21 22:37:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Mahke on 21/12/2009 22:44:52 Edited by: Mahke on 21/12/2009 22:41:52
Originally by: Turiel Demon
Originally by: Mahke Edited by: Mahke on 21/12/2009 19:51:36 Instead of fullerides going up to converge with tech, tech collapsed down
Sold 2.5mil fullerides to sell orders down to 920 at a loss (130mil or so, made billions form moon mineral speculation so oh well, win some lose some) to get the liquidity I need to put a floor under tech prices so as to protect the rest of my investment. Buy orders up 1.5k so far, I'll hopefully have the floor at a decent level by tonight. Might work out badly but, someone has to do it .
Can you please not do that? Some of us are trying to cause a crash here
Too late, buys are back up to a comfortable 56 now, which means fullerides are again ever-so-slightly undervalued, not over.
Too bad I had to liquidate partially, but, crash averted (although not really thanks to me: after buys started rolling upward they continued after I went afk). Not all of us had enough liquidity to exploit that. Although I wish I had been online when people were putting large orders in near 50, dangit.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:00:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Mahke [ If you're one of those silly 1100 blocking orders rise your dumb prices (if not, hifive for not making that mess worse either). We can easily sustain 1200/unit or a bit better if people were .01ing there instead of at 1100. It's not like people will be reacting new supplies at either pricepoint .
Confirming I'm not one of the silly 1100 orders
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.22 01:40:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Xavier Hayes Actually, after a quick calculation of volume/cost, it wouldn't reuire that large a chunk of isk tbh. Some of us have the amount...
For the units currently on the market, yeah, sure. But you're not taking into account the pre-existing stockpiles (anywhere between 150 to 500 mil units or thereabouts, too uncertain to say for sure exactly how much might be there) which will no doubt be (at least partially) mobilized if the price jumps that much. Do you have a few spare dozen trillion ISK for a manipulation of that magnitude in that specific fashion?
_
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.12.22 02:01:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: Mahke [ If you're one of those silly 1100 blocking orders rise your dumb prices (if not, hifive for not making that mess worse either). We can easily sustain 1200/unit or a bit better if people were .01ing there instead of at 1100. It's not like people will be reacting new supplies at either pricepoint .
Confirming I'm not one of the silly 1100 orders
Yeah, I screwed up on this one.
On the bright side, I just got back almost half of what I sold on buy orders for less when they collapsed after I had to speed-liquidate to try to hold up tech.
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.12.22 06:05:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Turiel Demon
Originally by: EvilCheez Out of tech myself, but it will be interesting to see if we can tell when TornSoul fills that 100B bond by watching moongoo.
With the quantity of it TS will get as collateral he could sell while crashing the market, then buy up again low as it recovers... about as close as you can get to selling short in EvE
Let's look at this picture. Speculator takes out loan to buy more tech giving his existing stockpile of tech as collateral to the bank. Bank decides to make a few extra isk by dumping all the tech it holds as collateral with the intent of buying it back cheaper. Price crashes hard and speculator is wiped out and unable to pay back the loan. How does the bank win?
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Banked
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:19:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Let's look at this picture. Speculator takes out loan to buy more tech giving his existing stockpile of tech as collateral to the bank. Bank decides to make a few extra isk by dumping all the tech it holds as collateral with the intent of buying it back cheaper. Price crashes hard and speculator is wiped out and unable to pay back the loan. How does the bank win?
Because even if the speculator doesn't pay back - they forfeit their collateral, which means when the bank dumps the tech, and others jump on the price crash, the bank is able to repurchase at a lower price, and result in much profit longterm, which is the banks game anyway - with the plus side of double dipping at getting interest if the speculator does pay back up :) - the only assumption is the profit on tech hijinks is greater than the difference between the collateral and the loan amount.
Although this raises an interesting question about what ethics the bank holds to - I would consider it unethical, as they are obviously taking advantage of their clients - but then again I happily act in my own unethical best interests when it comes to other transactions :p
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Xavier Hayes
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Posted - 2009.12.22 09:14:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Akita T
For the units currently on the market, yeah, sure. But you're not taking into account the pre-existing stockpiles (anywhere between 150 to 500 mil units or thereabouts, too uncertain to say for sure exactly how much might be there) which will no doubt be (at least partially) mobilized if the price jumps that much. Do you have a few spare dozen trillion ISK for a manipulation of that magnitude in that specific fashion?
Actually, existing stockpiles won't really come into a buy up of existing market stock and relisting at 180k or so a unit. Market forces being what they are, and players being as GREEDY as they are, you be cutting ya nose off in spite of ya face to list a lot lower than 180k...buy orders would come up due to bottleneck etc. Players don't liquidate their stocks to get rid of them generally...but to make as much isk as possible. If technetium is selling at 180k a unit, you can be sure they'll try selling it at 180k a unit.
If you worried about stocks everytime you moved prices up with market manipulation (which I know quite a lot about ), you'd never make any ISK. My reserves could take quite a chunk of the stocked technetium...I'd love to be buying it at 56k when the sell is 180k!
Xavier
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:26:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Banked
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Let's look at this picture. Speculator takes out loan to buy more tech giving his existing stockpile of tech as collateral to the bank. Bank decides to make a few extra isk by dumping all the tech it holds as collateral with the intent of buying it back cheaper. Price crashes hard and speculator is wiped out and unable to pay back the loan. How does the bank win?
Because even if the speculator doesn't pay back - they forfeit their collateral, which means when the bank dumps the tech, and others jump on the price crash, the bank is able to repurchase at a lower price, and result in much profit longterm, which is the banks game anyway - with the plus side of double dipping at getting interest if the speculator does pay back up :) - the only assumption is the profit on tech hijinks is greater than the difference between the collateral and the loan amount.
Of course the bank CAN make money speculating in tech, but the issue I was debating was whether this was "as close as you can get to short selling in Eve." The idea in short selling is to make money when the price moves down, not to lose it all and then make it back by speculating on it going up again. Short selling in the real-world requires a system of exchanges with rules and brokers with deep pockets who are required to make good on their customers trades.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:30:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Xavier Hayes
Originally by: Akita T
For the units currently on the market, yeah, sure. But you're not taking into account the pre-existing stockpiles (anywhere between 150 to 500 mil units or thereabouts, too uncertain to say for sure exactly how much might be there) which will no doubt be (at least partially) mobilized if the price jumps that much. Do you have a few spare dozen trillion ISK for a manipulation of that magnitude in that specific fashion?
Actually, existing stockpiles won't really come into a buy up of existing market stock and relisting at 180k or so a unit. Market forces being what they are, and players being as GREEDY as they are, you be cutting ya nose off in spite of ya face to list a lot lower than 180k...buy orders would come up due to bottleneck etc. Players don't liquidate their stocks to get rid of them generally...but to make as much isk as possible. If technetium is selling at 180k a unit, you can be sure they'll try selling it at 180k a unit.
If you worried about stocks everytime you moved prices up with market manipulation (which I know quite a lot about ), you'd never make any ISK. My reserves could take quite a chunk of the stocked technetium...I'd love to be buying it at 56k when the sell is 180k!
Xavier
So quit talking about it and do it
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Leon Aerie
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:44:00 -
[592]
So really, with promethium and dysprosium skyrocketing overnight, whats with the basement falling out from under ferrogel? |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:46:00 -
[593]
Edited by: Akita T on 22/12/2009 14:49:33
Originally by: Tiberizzle
Originally by: Xavier Hayes
Originally by: Akita T For the units currently on the market, yeah, sure. But you're not taking into account the pre-existing stockpiles [...]
Actually, existing stockpiles won't really come into a buy up of existing market stock and relisting at 180k or so a unit. Market forces being what they are, and players being as GREEDY as they are[...]
So quit talking about it and do it
I echo that sentiment - if you indeed can somehow borrow the necessary ISK and are completely confident you are correct (and stand to make a profit from it), do as I did and put your (borrowed) money where your mouth is
Originally by: Leon Aerie So really, with promethium and dysprosium skyrocketing overnight, whats with the basement falling out from under ferrogel?
Expect those two to fall back down sooner rather than later. The downwards push comes form the finished T2 components, trickling down to all materials and moon minerals. Temporary upswings in dyspro/prom are expected, just like temporary downswings in technetium are also to be expected.
_
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Leon Aerie
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:03:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 22/12/2009 14:49:33
Originally by: Tiberizzle
Originally by: Xavier Hayes
Originally by: Akita T For the units currently on the market, yeah, sure. But you're not taking into account the pre-existing stockpiles [...]
Actually, existing stockpiles won't really come into a buy up of existing market stock and relisting at 180k or so a unit. Market forces being what they are, and players being as GREEDY as they are[...]
So quit talking about it and do it
I echo that sentiment - if you indeed can somehow borrow the necessary ISK and are completely confident you are correct (and stand to make a profit from it), do as I did and put your (borrowed) money where your mouth is
Originally by: Leon Aerie So really, with promethium and dysprosium skyrocketing overnight, whats with the basement falling out from under ferrogel?
Expect those two to fall back down sooner rather than later. The downwards push comes form the finished T2 components, trickling down to all materials and moon minerals. Temporary upswings in dyspro/prom are expected, just like temporary downswings in technetium are also to be expected.
yeah....15,000 ferrogel is unacceptable...lol |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.12.22 15:16:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Akita T do as I did and put your (borrowed) money where your mouth is
You mean someone else's money.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:33:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Akita T do as I did and put your (borrowed) money where your mouth is
You mean someone else's money.
This is EVE - if you got it, it's yours. If you plan to give it back later, well, that's a whole different story
_
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:03:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Akita T do as I did and put your (scammed) money where your mouth is
Fixed it for you.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:21:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Claire Voyant Fixed it for you.
Well, you'll have to wait 3 and a half months before you can say that with a straight face
_
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Vhiskey
Caldari Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:27:00 -
[599]
akita will NOT turn this into a scam. sidebets anyone?
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Xavier Hayes
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:56:00 -
[600]
I LOL re: me buying up stocks. FFS, who do you think hoards millions of units??? It was, after all, 1800 isk a unit not so long back ;)
I'll keep buying it at 56k for the time being...as it is MY ISK (not borrowed) afterall, and I have lots of it...
Why don't you buy it all Akita, if you are confident in your projections and analysis?
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