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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:16:00 -
[61]
They break the combat system. End of story. It takes no skill to mount or use a dual MWD Raven to deadly effect because the combat system is not set up to handle something like that. You know this, why even argue it. Everyone's options in fitting their ships will be opened up as you can no longer use this no brainer loophole, and neither can your opponent. Instead you will have to think about your ships strengths, and your opponents weaknesses, rather than worrying about how you (or your foe) can exploit a flaw in the game mechanics.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:16:00 -
[62]
They break the combat system. End of story. It takes no skill to mount or use a dual MWD Raven to deadly effect because the combat system is not set up to handle something like that. You know this, why even argue it. Everyone's options in fitting their ships will be opened up as you can no longer use this no brainer loophole, and neither can your opponent. Instead you will have to think about your ships strengths, and your opponents weaknesses, rather than worrying about how you (or your foe) can exploit a flaw in the game mechanics.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:17:00 -
[63]
I think it is because battleships are meant to be slow and cumbersome in CCP's vision of how it's meant to be.
Dual-MWD stacks incorrectly which makes a BS turn on a sixpence and move like a Sand-Dancer with a meal ticket.
Someone said fixing the stacking would be suitable and it's worth a go to see how they perform on Shiva that way.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:17:00 -
[64]
I think it is because battleships are meant to be slow and cumbersome in CCP's vision of how it's meant to be.
Dual-MWD stacks incorrectly which makes a BS turn on a sixpence and move like a Sand-Dancer with a meal ticket.
Someone said fixing the stacking would be suitable and it's worth a go to see how they perform on Shiva that way.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
DeFood
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:40:00 -
[65]
All these balance problems are really CCPs fault for using multiplicative stacking, instead of additive stacking that every other MMORPG uses.
That is, most other games add up the relevent bonuses, THEN multiply. Which means stacking multiple effects leads to a linear increase in the final bonus.
EVEs multiplicative system leads to exponential growth.
In a rational system a MWD would increase your ships speed by base speed + 400%. So, if 1 MWD increased your ships speed from 350m/s to 1750m/s, 2 MWDs would have this math: Speed = 350 + 1400 + 1400 = 3150m/s
Which is a far more sensible solution.
Oh well.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:40:00 -
[66]
All these balance problems are really CCPs fault for using multiplicative stacking, instead of additive stacking that every other MMORPG uses.
That is, most other games add up the relevent bonuses, THEN multiply. Which means stacking multiple effects leads to a linear increase in the final bonus.
EVEs multiplicative system leads to exponential growth.
In a rational system a MWD would increase your ships speed by base speed + 400%. So, if 1 MWD increased your ships speed from 350m/s to 1750m/s, 2 MWDs would have this math: Speed = 350 + 1400 + 1400 = 3150m/s
Which is a far more sensible solution.
Oh well.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:40:00 -
[67]
Sniff.... how are we going to find safespots now without dualmwd frigs? (until modules allow it ofc)
If the way they stack is changed, I agree that there is no need to prevent using 2mwd`s.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:40:00 -
[68]
Sniff.... how are we going to find safespots now without dualmwd frigs? (until modules allow it ofc)
If the way they stack is changed, I agree that there is no need to prevent using 2mwd`s.
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Axel
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:43:00 -
[69]
I see noting wrong with dual mwd in any ship's class. Are the pirates complaining to much what they can't kill one at a gatecamp or are people complaining that tehy can't shoot a dual mwd ship down in a pvp fight, because they don't want to apapt to kill one? If this is comming true, please CCP give us a good reason why.
Like it has been adressed before, the ganks ships, stacking of damage modules is a more serious problem.
Movies
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Axel
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:43:00 -
[70]
I see noting wrong with dual mwd in any ship's class. Are the pirates complaining to much what they can't kill one at a gatecamp or are people complaining that tehy can't shoot a dual mwd ship down in a pvp fight, because they don't want to apapt to kill one? If this is comming true, please CCP give us a good reason why.
Like it has been adressed before, the ganks ships, stacking of damage modules is a more serious problem.
Movies
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:43:00 -
[71]
Originally by: DeFood All these balance problems are really CCPs fault for using multiplicative stacking, instead of additive stacking that every other MMORPG uses.
That is, most other games add up the relevent bonuses, THEN multiply. Which means stacking multiple effects leads to a linear increase in the final bonus.
EVEs multiplicative system leads to exponential growth.
In a rational system a MWD would increase your ships speed by base speed + 400%. So, if 1 MWD increased your ships speed from 350m/s to 1750m/s, 2 MWDs would have this math: Speed = 350 + 1400 + 1400 = 3150m/s
Which is a far more sensible solution.
Oh well.
would you also have additive bonuses for skills and ship bonuses too?
Not me personally. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:43:00 -
[72]
Originally by: DeFood All these balance problems are really CCPs fault for using multiplicative stacking, instead of additive stacking that every other MMORPG uses.
That is, most other games add up the relevent bonuses, THEN multiply. Which means stacking multiple effects leads to a linear increase in the final bonus.
EVEs multiplicative system leads to exponential growth.
In a rational system a MWD would increase your ships speed by base speed + 400%. So, if 1 MWD increased your ships speed from 350m/s to 1750m/s, 2 MWDs would have this math: Speed = 350 + 1400 + 1400 = 3150m/s
Which is a far more sensible solution.
Oh well.
would you also have additive bonuses for skills and ship bonuses too?
Not me personally. ................. |
sokken
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:43:00 -
[73]
Can i still fit my punisher with a mwd and a 10mn AB?
I dont need guns for what im doing, but losing my speed would ruin my day. -
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sokken
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:43:00 -
[74]
Can i still fit my punisher with a mwd and a 10mn AB?
I dont need guns for what im doing, but losing my speed would ruin my day. -
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:44:00 -
[75]
Originally by: sokken Can i still fit my punisher with a mwd and a 10mn AB?
I dont need guns for what im doing, but losing my speed would ruin my day.
I believe that still works on SiSi, not 100% sure Ill check later. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.10.21 08:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: sokken Can i still fit my punisher with a mwd and a 10mn AB?
I dont need guns for what im doing, but losing my speed would ruin my day.
I believe that still works on SiSi, not 100% sure Ill check later. ................. |
DeFood
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Posted - 2004.10.21 09:06:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Cruz
would you also have additive bonuses for skills and ship bonuses too?
Not me personally.
Why not?
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.10.21 09:06:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Cruz
would you also have additive bonuses for skills and ship bonuses too?
Not me personally.
Why not?
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Naqq
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:00:00 -
[79]
Dual MWD? nah i use mwd and 100mn AB on my ruppy, hopefully they haven't nerfed that...? -- "Yarrr..." [FRIG] promotional video|Training film #1|Training film #2| |Newsreels: #1,#2,#3(NEW).| |
Naqq
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:00:00 -
[80]
Dual MWD? nah i use mwd and 100mn AB on my ruppy, hopefully they haven't nerfed that...? -- "Yarrr..." [FRIG] promotional video|Training film #1|Training film #2| |Newsreels: #1,#2,#3(NEW).| |
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:03:00 -
[81]
Let me just get this straight.. nerfing to hell the legitimate use of dual MWD setups in general in order to balance one ship is ok?
If the problem is the dual MWD raven, address that.
The only time I use dual MWD is on a crow to sustain 30km/s when hunting safespots. Admittedly I can still use one standard launcher with light missiles with that setup, but I am not sure that is going to threaten anyone.
There are LOTS of fine, fair and balanced uses for dual MWD, I think a general nerf is a bad thing.
If the dual MWD raven is so uber (and it isn't, there are plenty of setups which can counter it VERY effectively), fix that. Breaking everything else in the process is just stupid.
Half a fix is no fix. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:03:00 -
[82]
Let me just get this straight.. nerfing to hell the legitimate use of dual MWD setups in general in order to balance one ship is ok?
If the problem is the dual MWD raven, address that.
The only time I use dual MWD is on a crow to sustain 30km/s when hunting safespots. Admittedly I can still use one standard launcher with light missiles with that setup, but I am not sure that is going to threaten anyone.
There are LOTS of fine, fair and balanced uses for dual MWD, I think a general nerf is a bad thing.
If the dual MWD raven is so uber (and it isn't, there are plenty of setups which can counter it VERY effectively), fix that. Breaking everything else in the process is just stupid.
Half a fix is no fix. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:03:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I think it is because battleships are meant to be slow and cumbersome in CCP's vision of how it's meant to be.
Dual-MWD stacks incorrectly which makes a BS turn on a sixpence and move like a Sand-Dancer with a meal ticket.
Someone said fixing the stacking would be suitable and it's worth a go to see how they perform on Shiva that way.
Hi. Yea, that'd be me for the last 6 months trying to get people to consider that. See the fixes thread.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:03:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I think it is because battleships are meant to be slow and cumbersome in CCP's vision of how it's meant to be.
Dual-MWD stacks incorrectly which makes a BS turn on a sixpence and move like a Sand-Dancer with a meal ticket.
Someone said fixing the stacking would be suitable and it's worth a go to see how they perform on Shiva that way.
Hi. Yea, that'd be me for the last 6 months trying to get people to consider that. See the fixes thread.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:16:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 21/10/2004 10:19:04
Originally by: Avon Let me just get this straight.. nerfing to hell the legitimate use of dual MWD setups in general in order to balance one ship is ok?
If the problem is the dual MWD raven, address that.
The only time I use dual MWD is on a crow to sustain 30km/s when hunting safespots. Admittedly I can still use one standard launcher with light missiles with that setup, but I am not sure that is going to threaten anyone.
There are LOTS of fine, fair and balanced uses for dual MWD, I think a general nerf is a bad thing.
If the dual MWD raven is so uber (and it isn't, there are plenty of setups which can counter it VERY effectively), fix that. Breaking everything else in the process is just stupid.
Half a fix is no fix.
Dual-MWD = hi-slots deactivated?
Would that be a better solution?
Don't forget that cap relays were nerfed specifically because one ship gained far more by them than other ships.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:16:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 21/10/2004 10:19:04
Originally by: Avon Let me just get this straight.. nerfing to hell the legitimate use of dual MWD setups in general in order to balance one ship is ok?
If the problem is the dual MWD raven, address that.
The only time I use dual MWD is on a crow to sustain 30km/s when hunting safespots. Admittedly I can still use one standard launcher with light missiles with that setup, but I am not sure that is going to threaten anyone.
There are LOTS of fine, fair and balanced uses for dual MWD, I think a general nerf is a bad thing.
If the dual MWD raven is so uber (and it isn't, there are plenty of setups which can counter it VERY effectively), fix that. Breaking everything else in the process is just stupid.
Half a fix is no fix.
Dual-MWD = hi-slots deactivated?
Would that be a better solution?
Don't forget that cap relays were nerfed specifically because one ship gained far more by them than other ships.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Synaig0
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:17:00 -
[87]
Guys u still remember the proposed missile nerf/change? Sig radius influences damage and speed of missiles up by ~50%?
cruise missile @ 5km/s and u are stuck with 1 mwd *have fun*
Not to mention safespots are even more uber then they already are ---------------------
I'm the guy with the sleepy look...
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Synaig0
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:17:00 -
[88]
Guys u still remember the proposed missile nerf/change? Sig radius influences damage and speed of missiles up by ~50%?
cruise missile @ 5km/s and u are stuck with 1 mwd *have fun*
Not to mention safespots are even more uber then they already are ---------------------
I'm the guy with the sleepy look...
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:46:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 21/10/2004 10:49:47 It's a HUGE change in the game from the principle of "if you can mount it, you can use it". That'd BAD.
And fairimear? I'm not, have never been and don't plan on being CA.
Then again I'm not really against nerfing dual MWD's. I'm against THIS WAY of nerfing dual MWD's. ADD SPEED, NOT MULTIPLY!
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.21 10:46:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 21/10/2004 10:49:47 It's a HUGE change in the game from the principle of "if you can mount it, you can use it". That'd BAD.
And fairimear? I'm not, have never been and don't plan on being CA.
Then again I'm not really against nerfing dual MWD's. I'm against THIS WAY of nerfing dual MWD's. ADD SPEED, NOT MULTIPLY!
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
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