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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 61 post(s) |
Hroya
51
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:46:00 -
[451] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote: Live by the metagame, die by the metagame. You make a stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, decision to flaunt the rules with some flimsy response from a GM and what do you really ******* expect. I mean comeon.
Hehe yeah, if that happens then cest la vie. But come on, they got "caught", wich i might add doesnt seem all that difficult to me to do if you have the right tools at your disposal, but in the spirit of this milestone you could combine punishement with some true eve understanding and not go for a complete whipe but go for the middleground. It would make this years AT that much more hillarious, unless of course it's all serious schnitzelbussiness and those pixels mean the world to you. Like i said, some schemes you wont even catch in time, they are that well hidden.
You go your corridor but. |
Tish Magev
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
13
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:47:00 -
[452] - Quote
You know what both Sreegs and Soundwave are causing more ruccous round here than anyone else.
Hilmar, i implore you that during the next round of CCP staff cuts get rid of these two idiots, SW should have gone last time as it is.
But hey who would have expected it from these two, oh wait, once a goon always a goon. |
Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
57
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:48:00 -
[453] - Quote
How am I spamming, Sreegs? I am just asking questions. If I am breaking any forum rules then please remind me which rules I am breaking and I will cease to do so.
And again, you ignored the part about other teams considering doing the very same thing.
And the unanswered emails.
Time Funnel wrote:Intigo wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Can you just state why the CCP Alliance Tournament team chose not to respond to them, but responded to other emails. I would love to know this too. And the fact that he has yet to address anything about CVA considering to do the very same thing we did and thinking it was well within the rules (as we did). CVA should be banned! They did what we did! We were banned! THIS IS SO TERRIBLY UNFAIR. WHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA
I don't want CVA banned, they are awesome guys. I am using them as an example, simply. You should be able to see how silly it is that 2 teams get instantly banned over something that 2 entirely different entities had considered doing thinking it was well within the rules - just as HYDRA & Outbreak thought.
And this being after any attempts at clarification were completely ignored by the Alliance Tournament team.
This is the part in question:
Quote:-4th and CVA decided to train against each other, testing setups. We would dicsuss failures, wins, errors made etc, but in the end we would never make a deal, just train together. -We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this.
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Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
82
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:50:00 -
[454] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Can you just state why the CCP Alliance Tournament team chose not to respond to them, but responded to other emails. Translation: Just give me a victory. Give me some satisfaction. Anything. I need to be right about something! I need to blame someone for something!
Please point out where I'm lying. Screegs goes from "you're wrong about the facts" to trolling once I do actually post the facts. I thought it's supposed to be the other way around ? |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
29
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:50:00 -
[455] - Quote
Sreegs you are a diplomatic nightmare. CCP should actually curbe your rights to post tbh.
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SwindonBadger
0utbreak Outbreak.
11
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:50:00 -
[456] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Can you just state why the CCP Alliance Tournament team chose not to respond to them, but responded to other emails.
This would end allot of forum posting, just be honest, its ok, remeber after the whole Im s powerful If I wanted to ban you I can ban you speach, |
Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
1
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:51:00 -
[457] - Quote
Seems to me CCP is enforcing the spirit of the rules rather than the letter. The rules said an alliance could not have a B team entered. Hydra and Outbreak are clearly two alliances entering two separate A teams.
However...
If you change the wording to Hydra and Outbreak were operating as one team with two entrants then the spirit of the rules has been met even though the letter was not.
Now take a look at the case of PL. They were fulfilling the spirit of the rules while CCP claimed PL broke the letter. In this case CCP ignored their own wording and failed to punish both teams as they said they would.
At this point I would say the confusion surrounding the wording of the AT rules is enough to warrant re-looking the issue.
How much can two separate entities train against each other before they are considered the same team?
Do movements of personnel and corps/alliances on Sisi have the consequence as movements on Live?
While I agree the final match last year was a complete and total letdown I think the current method of handling the situation has been rather poor. CCP spelled out the rules vaguely, clarification was sought with a poorly worded inquiry, and now there has been two different forms of enforcement for the same infraction.
Given all of the drama over the rules, and the lack of two of the strongest competitors, I'm wondering if the AT is even gonna be worth watching this year.
(Please not I didn't even come close to mentioning the conspiracy thoughts behind PL's massive Plex bid and the fact they remain in the tournament even though CCP said they broke the rules) |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:51:00 -
[458] - Quote
Tish Magev wrote:You know what both Sreegs and Soundwave are causing more ruccous round here than anyone else.
Hilmar, i implore you that during the next round of CCP staff cuts get rid of these two idiots, SW should have gone last time as it is.
But hey who would have expected it from these two, oh wait, once a goon always a goon.
Wtf ? Soundwave did a fantastic job after the layoffs, firing him would've been a huge mistake. You're an idiot. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
93
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:53:00 -
[459] - Quote
Sreegs, I think you are doing a great job handling ATX and responding to these myriad of troll questions. Keep up the good work. |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
434
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:54:00 -
[460] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Tish Magev wrote:You know what both Sreegs and Soundwave are causing more ruccous round here than anyone else.
Hilmar, i implore you that during the next round of CCP staff cuts get rid of these two idiots, SW should have gone last time as it is.
But hey who would have expected it from these two, oh wait, once a goon always a goon. Wtf ? Soundwave did a fantastic job after the layoffs, firing him would've been a huge mistake. You're an idiot.
You might call it...an ~awesome~ job
Heh
...I'll get my coat |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1435
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:56:00 -
[461] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:Sreegs, I think you are doing a great job handling ATX and responding to these myriad of troll questions. Keep up the good work.
I'm demanding overtime! "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:00:00 -
[462] - Quote
Intigo wrote: I don't want CVA banned, they are awesome guys. I am using them as an example, simply. You should be able to see how silly it is that 2 teams get instantly banned over something that 2 entirely different entities had considered doing thinking it was well within the rules.
If you think that you are under the microscope because you were a large part of the reason that the rules against collusion got put in place you are probably right.
What do you really expect to happen? I mean seriously.
Sure you are good at this game and at tournaments. in fact you were the primary archetype that I used when putting together a team for this year, examining your setups, methods, and whatnot.
But you made a tactical mistake. And someone hit you with the rulebook. Overall it sucks, but they needed to stomp out collusion. It gives people an unfair advantage in a tournament format.
If you thought for a minute one guy on "Team Liquid" in Starcraft was soft playing his senior member on the same team during a final, there would be fan outrage. That is not fair, balanced, or good for anyone involved.
When a rule changes there is inertia. I believe this is the inertia.
Sorry you were made an example of. Move on. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:01:00 -
[463] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Time Funnel wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Can you just state why the CCP Alliance Tournament team chose not to respond to them, but responded to other emails. Translation: Just give me a victory. Give me some satisfaction. Anything. I need to be right about something! I need to blame someone for something! Please point out where I'm lying. Screegs goes from "you're wrong about the facts" to trolling once I do actually post the facts. I thought it's supposed to be the other way around ?
Please point out where I am saying you are lying.
What is with you? |
DA Cassel
The Hobo Lords
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:03:00 -
[464] - Quote
Shreegs, did you get killed by Hydra/Ob on tranq? |
Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
59
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:05:00 -
[465] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:penifSMASH wrote:Sreegs, I think you are doing a great job handling ATX and responding to these myriad of troll questions. Keep up the good work. I'm demanding overtime!
You still haven't responded at all to the example I presented in regards to CVA & 4th. They were not mentioned in the stickies - I checked.
Time Funnel wrote:Intigo wrote: I don't want CVA banned, they are awesome guys. I am using them as an example, simply. You should be able to see how silly it is that 2 teams get instantly banned over something that 2 entirely different entities had considered doing thinking it was well within the rules.
If you think that you are under the microscope because you were a large part of the reason that the rules against collusion got put in place you are probably right. What do you really expect to happen? I mean seriously. Sure you are good at this game and at tournaments. in fact you were the primary archetype that I used when putting together a team for this year, examining your setups, methods, and whatnot. But you made a tactical mistake. And someone hit you with the rulebook. Overall it sucks, but they needed to stomp out collusion. It gives people an unfair advantage in a tournament format. If you thought for a minute one guy on "Team Liquid" in Starcraft was soft playing his senior member on the same team during a final, there would be fan outrage. That is not fair, balanced, or good for anyone involved. When a rule changes there is inertia. I believe this is the inertia. Sorry you were made an example of. Move on.
I am not saying we are "under the microscope" - that is perfectly fair if we were. What I am arguing is that other teams considered doing the EXACT same thing we did because they thought it was well within the rules (just as we did).
That is an excellent example of the fact that the rules are incredibly vague and that banning 2 separate teams over it after ignoring ALL attempts at clarification/communication and giving no warning is ludicrous.
The ruling here was based off what happened in AT IX - there is no way you can justify it based entirely off what happened in AT X. And that is just sad. "We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this." 2 separate teams considered doing the same thing HYDRA & Outbreak did - how can you justify banning 2 teams who thought it was within the rules? |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
84
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:06:00 -
[466] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Time Funnel wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Can you just state why the CCP Alliance Tournament team chose not to respond to them, but responded to other emails. Translation: Just give me a victory. Give me some satisfaction. Anything. I need to be right about something! I need to blame someone for something! Please point out where I'm lying. Screegs goes from "you're wrong about the facts" to trolling once I do actually post the facts. I thought it's supposed to be the other way around ? Please point out where I am saying you are lying. What is with you?
Time Funnel wrote: Just give me a victory. Give me some satisfaction. Anything. I need to be right about something!
Either I'm lying or I'm telling the truth. If I'm not pulling, I'm telling the truth. Telling the truth = I must be right correct.
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carbomb
Super Team Munkey
11
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:07:00 -
[467] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:carbomb wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:carbomb wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:[
None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.
I hope this helps but it probably won't. I'm Sorry, where did it say that what happend in AT9 was against the rules? No rules were broken! therefore they can not be regarded as "cheats" for it. What would probably end all this posting is an admission from sreegs and co that basically this is them hitting back at last years finalists out of spite. You outmetagamed the metagamers and fair play ccp, you did it well. Just admit that this is payback and this matter will be closed. Its pretty pathetic how you are behaving. Most people can see that this was your attempt at revenge. You really are a bunch of kids at times. You made mistakes, you tried cover them up. admit your wrong doings and move along. By the way, If one of my employee's spoke to my customers the way you do to yours you would be out on your ear! Show some professionalism, man. also love how you hung the Senior GM who responded to Hydra/0utbreak out to dry to cover you behinds. Smooth! Read the stickies. You seem to have missed them if they cheated in AT9 then you would have disqualified them both and certainly not awarded them their prizes. The reason you didn't, is because there were no rules about what they did. You can not brandish them as cheats when they did not break any rules. Thank you for telling me why I do what I do. They are cheats because they were cheating which is why they won't be in this year's tournament as explained in two sticky posts in this very forum.
It is a wonder why you do what you do when you cant even grasp the meaning of words you use. I believe you might have a serious problem and should seek medical help. Or atleast return to school for a brush up on English Language. You dont understand the meaning of cheating or "being a cheat" here is a definition from wiki "Cheating, a term generally used for the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation" and from the dictionary.. "cheats" to violate rules or regulations; I hope this helps!
There were not rule in AT9 that got broken. You are wrongly accusing them of being cheats. If they had done the same in this years tournament then you would be correct in calling them cheats, however, they did not, so you cant. The fact that you "believed" they were going to is irrelevant really. You are punishing them for something they have not yet done.
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Edenmain
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:08:00 -
[468] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Intigo wrote: I don't want CVA banned, they are awesome guys. I am using them as an example, simply. You should be able to see how silly it is that 2 teams get instantly banned over something that 2 entirely different entities had considered doing thinking it was well within the rules.
If you think that you are under the microscope because you were a large part of the reason that the rules against collusion got put in place you are probably right. What do you really expect to happen? I mean seriously. Sure you are good at this game and at tournaments. in fact you were the primary archetype that I used when putting together a team for this year, examining your setups, methods, and whatnot. But you made a tactical mistake. And someone hit you with the rulebook. Overall it sucks, but they needed to stomp out collusion. It gives people an unfair advantage in a tournament format. If you thought for a minute one guy on "Team Liquid" in Starcraft was soft playing his senior member on the same team during a final, there would be fan outrage. That is not fair, balanced, or good for anyone involved. When a rule changes there is inertia. I believe this is the inertia. Sorry you were made an example of. Move on.
So people not in the same corp but who are working together aren't colluding?
I'm looking forward to seeing how CCP or Shregs, whoever, are going to police all forms of colusion, hacking TS/vents? Hacking into forums?
The most heinous crime of all, having the same corp ticker on SiSi! Mother of God.
How you going to stop collusion then Shreegs? |
Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:08:00 -
[469] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Can you just state why the CCP Alliance Tournament team chose not to respond to them, but responded to other emails. I think we all know why.
I wish I knew. If Sreegs would reply we could all rest easy because we'd have an official response! "We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this." 2 separate teams considered doing the same thing HYDRA & Outbreak did - how can you justify banning 2 teams who thought it was within the rules? |
IamBeastx
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:09:00 -
[470] - Quote
Typhu5 wrote:IamBeastx wrote:We will be actively removing those alliances that try and add a GÇÿBGÇÖ or GÇÿCGÇÖ team. We want everyone to have a fair chance but stacking the deck in this manner will not be permitted. This removal will also include the main alliance if we detect anyone trying to field more than one team. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28644 I tried a bit sarcasm... and it did not worked... OK Yes i saw the rule and i interpreted it as, one of this two can still join the ATX, because only the B and C Team got banned. But now i am only tired reading this thread.
This removal will also include the main alliance if we detect anyone trying to field more than one team. |
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
81
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:09:00 -
[471] - Quote
Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them.
Gee it's almost as if personal attacks weren't allowed or something. |
Sahjahn
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
1
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:12:00 -
[472] - Quote
So how come you didn't get banned for calling Tish an idiot?
Not personal enough?
Oh no, double standards, i forget, and of course, goons. |
KSUDruid
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
13
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:13:00 -
[473] - Quote
Man, this thread is golden!
Ok so HYDRA & Outbreak can't compete... Yes it's a shame that the defending 'champions' won't be there! But hey, at least the finals will actually be exciting to watch.
Maybe a ban to either HYDRA or Outbreak might've sufficed but to both seems a little extreme... but hey ho!
Carry on getting those tears Screegs :) |
Bruce Vendetta
Final-Vendetta
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:13:00 -
[474] - Quote
So, lets break this down.
- Hydra/Outbreak metagame the previous tournament then through hard-work and skill win said tournament in a undignified fashion.
- CCP, unable to do anything about the metagaming and final since it's well within tournament rules, create a new rule for the following tournament which gives them carte blanche to ban anyone from the tournament that even looks like they're colluding together or attempting to enter multiple teams.
- Hydra/Outbreak finds out about the rule change and attempts to communicate with the AT team via email to their official email address in order to ascertain exactly how far two teams can work together during testing. They state multiple times that they have no intention of working together beyond testing (which is only being done because of pilot number issues).
- The AT team ignores all communications from the two teams.
- H/O is losing time and patience and decides to try another official source that can be trusted. A senior GM is reached who basically repeats what the rules already say -
"Are 2 alliances sparring against each other and testing out ship setups before the tournament itself classed as breaking this rule?" "No, as long as those alliances are not working for the same team, so to speak"
- So far H/O have detailed their intentions to CCP on more than one occasion but received no real reply.
- Time is running short so they begin testing together anyway. Both teams merge into one corp to make the testing process easier and less time consuming.
- Another team in a similar situation to H/O (RvB) are contacted by CCP and a solution that allows them to participate is figured out. H/O are still ignored.
- Hours before the first bidding war is about to commence CCP announces that both H and O are banned because the AT team believes they are attempting a repeat of last year. Their main reason for this belief being that the two teams merged on Singularity into one corporation for testing purposes. Another duo also is banned because they are breaking this new rule as well however in their case only one of the teams from the duo are banned.
- It's later revealed that none of the communications between the AT team and H/O were even read and the GM response was not heard of until after the banning occurred.
- Through mass amounts of posting we learn that the (primary and seemingly only) reason that H/O are both banned is not because they were testing together but because they merged corps on the test server. This (and nothing else) gave CCP the indication that they were attempting a repeat of last year.
- It's stated multiple times by the AT team that the previous year has nothing to do with the banning.
- It's also stated that GM's have no say on the rulings of the AT and that any reply is basically useless. Devs are the only trusted source.
CCP Sreegs wrote:No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome.
From the way that the AT team is acting and responding many could claim bias and revenge as a motive for banning both teams rather than only one or trying to come to a mutually beneficial solution.
In my humble opinion the complete retardation surrounding this debacle has removed any credibility the AT team had. In addition, with the way Sreegs is replying you can see frustration is the cause for the lack of professionalism. However, I sincerely hope this AT is ruined completely so you can feel the pain of hundreds of wasted man hours just like H/O did. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:14:00 -
[475] - Quote
Edenmain wrote: So people not in the same corp but who are working together aren't colluding?
I'm looking forward to seeing how CCP or Shregs, whoever, are going to police all forms of colusion, hacking TS/vents? Hacking into forums?
The most heinous crime of all, having the same corp ticker on SiSi! Mother of God.
How you going to stop collusion then Shreegs?
Here is a man who explains it so much better than I can.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1357442#post1357442
That guy wins at eve. And probably life. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1175
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:15:00 -
[476] - Quote
Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them.
You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers. |
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penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:15:00 -
[477] - Quote
Sahjahn wrote:So how come you didn't get banned for calling Tish an idiot?
Not personal enough?
Oh no, double standards, i forget, and of course, goons.
ex-GBC trash are still upset they got beat by goons on TQ for the 13th time :shobon: |
DA Cassel
The Hobo Lords
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:16:00 -
[478] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them. You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers.
Have you read what Shreegs says about everybody here? |
Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
64
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:20:00 -
[479] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them. You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers.
Hi Soundwave, one of my many Danish brethren!
Do you know why all emails sent in an attempt to communicate and get clarification from the Alliance Tournament team by Garmon were completely ignored while the RvB ones were handled without issue and a compromise was made?
Alternatively, what do you think about the fact that HYDRA & Outbreak were banned over something that 2 other teams considered doing thinking it was well within the rules (just as HYDRA & Outbreak did)? "We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this." 2 separate teams considered doing the same thing HYDRA & Outbreak did - how can you justify banning 2 teams who thought it was within the rules? |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:21:00 -
[480] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Edenmain wrote: So people not in the same corp but who are working together aren't colluding?
I'm looking forward to seeing how CCP or Shregs, whoever, are going to police all forms of colusion, hacking TS/vents? Hacking into forums?
The most heinous crime of all, having the same corp ticker on SiSi! Mother of God.
How you going to stop collusion then Shreegs?
Here is a man who explains it so much better than I can. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1357442#post1357442That guy wins at eve. And probably life.
Ease of logistics. Setting up POSes, getting ships hauled in, getting right hangar access set up etc. etc. takes ages of time and having to redo this several times during the course of the tournament as SiSi updates (how often does SiSi update anyway? every week or so is what I thought....)
Doing that for two different towers takes twice as long as doing it for one. If you have two guys (one for each team) doing the logistics and it takes 100 hours every fortnight, but you could make it so each guy only spends 50 hours every fortnight, that gives you more time for life/theorycrafting/training etc. |
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