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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:42:00 -
[1]
I (and others) believe that CCP slightly overcooked the web balance especially in the case of the Minmatar recons. While a balance was needed as 90% at 40km+ was a bit much the current state of webs in this case along with the rebalance of speed in the game has significantly reduced the ability of the Rapier/Huginn to act properly as force multipliers. Not to mention the Hyena (urrrrg).
Those who fly either are fully aware of how slow these 2 ships have become. As both are designed to dictate engagement range and/or act as a multi-support webbing platform for a gang/fleet it would seem the max web speed reduction of 60% is simply not quite right.
I would suggest (as with other EWAR) that webs be left as is for ships without a bonus (i.e.60% speed reduction)..but perhaps introduce a 2.5-5% bonus per level to web strength for both Minmatar recons and the Hyena.
Mathwise (based on base 60% with best case 5%/level) this would work out to approx:
Level 1=63% web strength Level 2=66% web strength Level 3=69% web strength Level 4=72% web strength Level V=75%. web strength
At Recon V/EAF V this would make far more balanced difference in the ability of all three ships to act in their proper roles.
Thank you for your attention.
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RuleoftheBone
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:44:00 -
[2]
Oh yeah. I support this.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.07.17 00:31:00 -
[3]
Supported ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:31:00 -
[4]
rapier/huginn/hyena is currently useless.
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
Felix Mibaz
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:39:00 -
[5]
They aren't useless, just less useful.
Still most horrid EAF is gallente, most terrible force recon is gallente, as well as their combat recon.
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Felix Mibaz They aren't useless, just less useful.
Still most horrid EAF is gallente, most terrible force recon is gallente, as well as their combat recon.
it's true, and i want to try to get CCP to look at all of them(all currently terrible ships) via future proposals. i want to ask for at least the ability for players to testdrive the suggested alterations on singularity and implementation only after testing concludes they aren't overpowered.
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: Felix Mibaz They aren't useless, just less useful.
Still most horrid EAF is gallente, most terrible force recon is gallente, as well as their combat recon.
it's true, and i want to try to get CCP to look at all of them(all currently terrible ships) via future proposals. i want to ask for at least the ability for players to testdrive the suggested alterations on singularity and implementation only after testing concludes they aren't overpowered.
I am not 100% sure that the Arazu/Lach/Keres are as out of whack as the Minmatar recons. With advanced damp skills trained, Recon/EAF V, and sound fitting the Gallente boats are fully capable of shutting down an individual ship in two-even three-different ways:
-Warp disruption from extended range. -Warp scram from extended range shutting down MWD's. -Skilled Arazu/Lach pilot should be able to damp to under 21km any non-sensor-boosted ship other than a recon.
Not to mention intelligent damp users on both recons having the ability to follow wingman EWAR cycles with porked lock times on multiple targets...even supporting mid-long range engagements by damping down target range of multiple ships.
This of course is depending on the pilot to not suck and fit/fly correctly.
Compared to the Minmatar ability to use 60% long range webs (currently pretty bleah) and the ridiculous situational use (or pointlessness) of the painter bonus I would suggest the Minnie recons/EAF's are far more broken in terms of overall usefulness.
And yeah...I'm gonna add the Gallente recons shortly to my personal stable (with prop jam V and advanced damps to L4 ).
Anyway-I have edited the OP for a bit of clarity. And much <3 to Mazz for actually taking to time to pay attention to the wee folk's suggestions amoungst the general high SNR present in this forum area. I'm glad I voted for you .
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Aura Mega
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Posted - 2009.07.17 09:01:00 -
[8]
/Supported |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.07.17 09:21:00 -
[9]
/me pets his Recon V skill.
Despite having had some fun in my rapier lately, I must admit that I found it disturbing that it was impossible to hold down a vagabond with 2 webs on him.
The only thing these things can hold in place right now are big fat ships with afterburners.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.07.17 09:35:00 -
[10]
Supported
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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irion felpamy
SkillzKillz United For 0rder
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Felix Mibaz They aren't useless, just less useful.
Still most horrid EAF is gallente, most terrible force recon is gallente, as well as their combat recon.
The arazu is as awesome as the lach is bad.
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ChinaWillGrowLarger
Heretic Command
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:31:00 -
[12]
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:35:00 -
[13]
As for "2 webs being insufficient to slow down Vagabond", all you need is a warp scrambler.
I like my 40km range webs. Want to know more? |
Darus Te'rashad
The Forbidden Hunters
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:35:00 -
[14]
Supported.
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.07.17 13:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock As for "2 webs being insufficient to slow down Vagabond", all you need is a warp scrambler.
I like my 40km range webs.
so you need a team of arazu/lach and huginn/rapier to slow one ship down?
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
Ian Morrolan
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.17 14:02:00 -
[16]
This is a good idea and should be implemented.
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.17 14:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock As for "2 webs being insufficient to slow down Vagabond", all you need is a warp scrambler.
I like my 40km range webs.
so you need a team of arazu/lach and huginn/rapier to slow one ship down?
Well you just need a ship with a warp scrambler. Want to know more? |
mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.07.17 14:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock As for "2 webs being insufficient to slow down Vagabond", all you need is a warp scrambler.
I like my 40km range webs.
so you need a team of arazu/lach and huginn/rapier to slow one ship down?
Well you just need a ship with a warp scrambler.
so you could just use a single ship, a rapier at 10km range?
rapiers are supposed to stop ships, and they aren't doing that right now.
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
Admiral IceBlock
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.07.17 14:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Originally by: mazzilliu
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock As for "2 webs being insufficient to slow down Vagabond", all you need is a warp scrambler.
I like my 40km range webs.
so you need a team of arazu/lach and huginn/rapier to slow one ship down?
Well you just need a ship with a warp scrambler.
so you could just use a single ship, a rapier at 10km range?
rapiers are supposed to stop ships, and they aren't doing that right now.
So you want a solo pwn-mobile? Its an MMO, why don't you team up with somebody? Warp scramblers were introduced for exactly this reason, to stop people! Webifiers only slow them down. Want to know more? |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.17 15:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Some stuff that doesn't make sense if the OP was actually READ
The days of the solo "pwn-mobile" Rapier/Huginn went away with the damp balance (unless target BS/BC/HAC pilots were stupid). The DPS capabilities of both ships are fairly bleah which is how they should be given they are-or should be-force multipliers in any given engagement.
With the huge whine over speed fits (which I personally had no issue with given I was-and remain-known for flying with up to 4 webs onboard) the speed balance was introduced along with an excessive penalty to web-bonussed ships.
To take the Vagabond example-given that the role of the Minnie Recons is to slow them (and everything else for that matter) and DICTATE RANGE (key bit)...they simply cannot espcially when dealing with multiple targets. Remember key=force multiplier. A competent Vagabond pilot can currently overheat the MWD to speeds approaching 5km/s. 60% of 5km/s=roughly a crapload faster than a MWD'ing Rapier/Huginn.
Look..prior to the current state of affairs I would cheerfully pack triple webs and a flight of EWAR drones allowing me to web multiple targets and send EWAR around the battlefield as needed. Again...force multiplier.
While 90% webs were a bit overpowered...60% webs are underpowered given the role of the Minnie recons...and the failHyena. I am offering a compromise that is reasonable, balanced, and probably easy to implement for at least a test drive on SISI.
And chucking out comments like "fit a scrambler" is random silliness really. If you don't support the idea...state why you don't support it and leave it there and I'm sure your comments will be taken onboard by those that may actually read and find the proposal worth a second look.
Cheers
Bone
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Bunzan Cardinal
The Artists
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Posted - 2009.07.17 17:48:00 -
[21]
supported
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Kandarus
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.17 18:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock, mazzilliu As for "2 webs being insufficient to slow down Vagabond", all you need is a warp scrambler.
I like my 40km range webs. ---------- so you need a team of arazu/lach and huginn/rapier to slow one ship down? ---------- Well you just need a ship with a warp scrambler. ---------- so you could just use a single ship, a rapier at 10km range?
rapiers are supposed to stop ships, and they aren't doing that right now. ---------- So you want a solo pwn-mobile? Its an MMO, why don't you team up with somebody? Warp scramblers were introduced for exactly this reason, to stop people! Webifiers only slow them down.
Supported!
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Aria Selenis
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.17 19:18:00 -
[23]
I'd support this.
The rapier is only capable of holding one ship at the moment, compared to an arazu which could damp 2-3 (or tackle 2-3), or especially the falcon which can jam several ships at once.
For a question of balance, look at the rapier and it's ability to be a force multiplier. Then look at the Falcon and it's ability to be a force multiplier.
Though, I must say, one web should be enough to keep up with a Vagabond; an overheating vaga with a single 60% web on will get to under 2k/second. Two webs and they won't break 1k..
But the fact that a ship could be limited to "only 900 m/s" when the complete attention of a recon designed to use webs to slow other ships is on it...
Dual webs on an interceptor will not even slow it below 1000...
Two 60% webs as of now: 16% speed remaining (before stacking factors)
75% webs with the proposed change: 6.25% speed remaining (before stacking).
Suddenly, stacking webs to stop a target becomes powerful and viable, while a single web is not overpowered again by buffing it to 90%.
Alternatively, more midslots please. |
AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:56:00 -
[24]
Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 17/07/2009 22:04:34 Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 17/07/2009 21:57:03 heres why this doesnt really work:
Quote:
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount
pilgrim(amarr, allied with caldari) gets an effectiveness bonus.
Quote: 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level
Falcon(caldari, allied with amarr) gets an effectiveness bonus.
Buuuut the gallente/minmatar get a range bonus instead.
Quote: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range
range bonus on rapier.
Quote:
20% bonus to warp disruptor range
range bonus on arazu.
---------------- Now if amarr/caldari recons (cloaky) get range bonuses I might support this. Pew Pew Lazorz!!! |
Yarik Mendel
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.17 23:20:00 -
[25]
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Aria Selenis
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.18 00:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Things
Except you're forgetting the Curse, which is Amarr and gets both a range AND potency bonus.
Also the Falcon/Rook had a range bonus until it was nerfed very recently.
Clearly, CCP did not design the game around ship bonuses being based on who you're allied with.
By that logic, we should remove the arbitrator/curse/pilgrim's drone bonus because amarr are allied with caldari who are the enemy of the gallente who use drones, meaning it doesn't work to give amarr a drone ship. |
Lauren Sheaperd
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.18 00:38:00 -
[27]
Supported.
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Lightbringer
Highwaymen
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Posted - 2009.07.18 00:54:00 -
[28]
Web effectiveness would proove usefull - Harmon |
Alyssa Eneas
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Posted - 2009.07.18 01:05:00 -
[29]
Supported.
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.18 13:37:00 -
[30]
Supported. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
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Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.07.18 14:49:00 -
[31]
You haven't clarified in the original post which of the current ship bonuses your proposed change will replace.
Are you wanting to replace the 60% bonus to stasis webifier range?
If so, i don't agree with the change. What good would the increase of web strength be if an interceptor or vaga can speed out of your range before you can lock/web them?
If you're wanting to replace the 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level (which is the Minmatar cruiser skill bonus, therefore always giving a 37.5% bonus), then i'm fully behind it. It will mean every Huginn/Rapier pilot's web gets a base of 75% speed reduction and only their Recon skill level dictates the range they can web. It also does away with the pointless target painter bonus that itself could either use attention currently, or just be scrapped.
So which is it?
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Zostera
Honour Bound
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Posted - 2009.07.18 16:14:00 -
[32]
Supporting this even it means losing the painter bonus. Zos |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.18 18:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Thresh Avery You haven't clarified in the original post which of the current ship bonuses your proposed change will replace.
Are you wanting to replace the 60% bonus to stasis webifier range?
If so, i don't agree with the change. What good would the increase of web strength be if an interceptor or vaga can speed out of your range before you can lock/web them?
If you're wanting to replace the 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level (which is the Minmatar cruiser skill bonus, therefore always giving a 37.5% bonus), then i'm fully behind it. It will mean every Huginn/Rapier pilot's web gets a base of 75% speed reduction and only their Recon skill level dictates the range they can web. It also does away with the pointless target painter bonus that itself could either use attention currently, or just be scrapped.
So which is it?
Additional bonus, scrap/reduce the loltastic painter bonus, or whatever works. This proposal is in conjunction with the web range bonus...not a replacement.
You can relax and support now. I will amend OP slightly to clarify this point though .
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swordmaster125
Ascent of Ages Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.07.18 21:29:00 -
[34]
Who paints anyways? >.> |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.07.18 21:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Thresh Avery You haven't clarified in the original post which of the current ship bonuses your proposed change will replace.
Are you wanting to replace the 60% bonus to stasis webifier range?
If so, i don't agree with the change. What good would the increase of web strength be if an interceptor or vaga can speed out of your range before you can lock/web them?
If you're wanting to replace the 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level (which is the Minmatar cruiser skill bonus, therefore always giving a 37.5% bonus), then i'm fully behind it. It will mean every Huginn/Rapier pilot's web gets a base of 75% speed reduction and only their Recon skill level dictates the range they can web. It also does away with the pointless target painter bonus that itself could either use attention currently, or just be scrapped.
So which is it?
IMO, ditch the ROF bonus if you're going to do this. Recons are to do EW, not DPS. Plus it provides an excuse to change the Huginn away from the painful split-weapons setup.
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Htrag
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2009.07.18 22:09:00 -
[36]
Sounds like a no-brainer to me. Wouldn't hold my breath and expect CCP to implement the obvious though.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.19 00:08:00 -
[37]
Originally by: swordmaster125 Who paints anyways? >.>
I do from time to time. With whatever the advanced damp skill is trained it buys you approx +48% sig radius hit to the target. If you have missile spammers with you it can help them out a bit. It also lets you ***** km's from silly ranges and with LR ammo loaded into your lolartillery you might actually hit something.
Anyway..hugely situational and usually pointless hence easy willingness to reduce it and add the difference to web strength (making the painter actually more useful oddly enough).....or something along those lines .
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Totally Hopeless
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Posted - 2009.07.19 00:58:00 -
[38]
Toss the pointless painter bonus. Even when attacking an inty with artilleries 2x painters and 2x webs won't even scratch it's paint... it'll just warp away.
A Rapier/Huginn is committing suicide trying to tackle a vagabond inside warp disruptor range (Vaga w/ barrage reaches 30km easily for full damage where an overheated T2 disruptor is max 28km), and the vaga will still have plenty of closing speed.
And that's just when looking at a vagabond... there are plenty of other ships that can do the same easily.
Remove the target painter bonus for a web effectiveness bonus makes the Min recons (and the Hyena) viable fleet ships again. They're not, nor ever were, particularly viable solo ships except against patently inferior ships like... perhaps a wet paper sack though I suspect even that can tank a Rapier's DPS.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 05:29:00 -
[39]
In my opinion web bonus is still pretty powerful just not win win button.
If bonus would be tweaked range bonus should be dropped or switched to strenght bonus.
I am strongly against giving minmatar recons ability to stop ships moving completely while orbiting outside disruptor range again.
60% web still cuts down speed a lot just not one web is enough to make target stationary, which is good.
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Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.19 14:12:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn In my opinion web bonus is still pretty powerful just not win win button.
If bonus would be tweaked range bonus should be dropped or switched to strenght bonus.
I am strongly against giving minmatar recons ability to stop ships moving completely while orbiting outside disruptor range again.
60% web still cuts down speed a lot just not one web is enough to make target stationary, which is good.
I'll agree witht he above post when the falcon can't stop several ships from doing anything at all, from triple the range of a warp disruptor.
Incidentally, I think ewar should be useful, and the ability to slow one ship down is simply not enough. Perhaps a stronger stacking nerf on webs, but stronger individual webs, to allow the rapier to hold several ships down.
Suggesting a drop to the range bonus? Then what role would the rapier have? "I can do my primary form of ewar just as well as a tech1 frigate!" |
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Kan3r Blaze
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 14:45:00 -
[41]
I like and support this idea.
I'm probably one of the few people that do actually use the TP bonus that these ships get, and whilst it does occasionally come in useful I believe the re-jig of web bonus' would be worth the loss of it. I agree with the concerns people have around not wanting to see way overpowered webs, so potentially if we did have a web strength bonus on the Rapier/Huginn/Hyena maybe CCP may look at increasing the stacking nerf slightly so 4 x webs on these ships doesn't make it crazy strong but dual webs are viable.
Noir.
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Larkonis Trassler
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Posted - 2009.07.19 14:49:00 -
[42]
Rapier/Huggin do need a bit of a buff, perhaps dropping one of damage bonus' for a web strength bonus. I'll look to bring it up at a future meeting.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.19 18:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Rapier/Huggin do need a bit of a buff, perhaps dropping one of damage bonus' for a web strength bonus. I'll look to bring it up at a future meeting.
Ta. And don't forget the lolHyena.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:12:00 -
[44]
And what kind of web-range decrease to you propose to compensate?
Since QR, all speeds have gone down while maintaining the relative speed between ships. The 60% web is extremely powerful except against MWD ships which require twin-webs, even with just one the signature/speed ratio of a MWD webbed ship is enough to allow full damage from all weapons.
I say no unless range is decreased, otherwise they become godly solo-mobiles and we will drown in Rapiers again.
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Arzuanne
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 13:09:00 -
[45]
Both hands up!
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida And what kind of web-range decrease to you propose to compensate?
Since QR, all speeds have gone down while maintaining the relative speed between ships. The 60% web is extremely powerful except against MWD ships which require twin-webs, even with just one the signature/speed ratio of a MWD webbed ship is enough to allow full damage from all weapons.
I say no unless range is decreased, otherwise they become godly solo-mobiles and we will drown in Rapiers again.
No web range decrease.
60% web is NOT extremely powerful..and considering that most standard combat fits Do include an MWD the now silly-slow Rapier/Huginn is at a disadvantage compared to other recons capable of truely nuking multiple ships in terms of EWAR.
Again: Force Recon intended role=force multiplier.
You can have the gun bonus back.
Also LOL "godly solo-mobiles". Perhaps somewhat pre-damp balance but since that time? Come on now.
And as a recent example yesterday I hung a pair of overloaded webs on a Sacrilege from 50km to assist a wingman and that sucker was STILL able to close range forcing me to warp out. Fair dues to the pilot who was speed fit (unexpectedly) and with a booster a Sac can run an MWD all day long where the Rapier has-at best-around 2 minutes MWD time to maintain range. Thats not exactly "dictating engagement range" is it?
And if you consider the fail that is the Hyena one is basically paying out around 40 mill ISK to hang a web or two for roughly 20 seconds before going pop to anything looking harshly at it .
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Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
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Posted - 2009.07.21 02:47:00 -
[47]
Supported.
I, personally, love the TP and would hate to see a bonus for it go. That said, I don't think removing a recon's bonus in order to provide a slight effectiveness boost is necessary as, has been pointed out, other recons share bonuses in range and effectiveness.
The Hyena, like all EAS, gets only 4 bonuses. All other T2 ships with the exception of the AF (see the 10-page thread on them) get *5* bonuses if you count their resistances. So doing something for EAS would be reasonable.
--Krum
--Krum |
Sans Honore
Wirfadam Productions LTD
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Posted - 2009.07.21 15:05:00 -
[48]
Supported. Give the Rapier / Huginn some love
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Saerynn
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.22 15:07:00 -
[49]
Supported. |
Lord Aftermath
The Aftermath.
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Posted - 2009.07.23 03:32:00 -
[50]
Unfortunately, I do not support this idea as the rapier has a range bonus just like the Gallente variant.
The other two races get effective bonuses, instead of the range - making them, in my opinion, just as effective at their particular task.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.07.23 14:22:00 -
[51]
Not supported,
Complaining that a rapier/hugiin cant hold down the fastest ship in eve is kinda meh.
Seems balanced to me if they can effectivelly web most ships but struggle with the fastest one.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.23 17:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dav Varan Not supported,
Complaining that a rapier/hugiin cant hold down the fastest ship in eve is kinda meh.
Seems balanced to me if they can effectivelly web most ships but struggle with the fastest one.
You have not read the OP/informed comments from others.
There are no "complaints" regarding "not being able to hold down xyz ship".
What you DO have are experienced pilots detailing examples of the incapability of the Huginn/Rapier/lolHyena to properly dictate range and engage multiple targets as a proper force multiplier.
Its all good though...you choose not to support the proposal. Fair enough-I expect nothing less from a lolCaldari anyway . But at least understand the issue and be against it for a correct reason eh?
p.s. protip1: Vaga is not the fastest ship in the game. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.23 17:47:00 -
[53]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 23/07/2009 17:49:46
Originally by: Lord Aftermath Unfortunately, I do not support this idea as the rapier has a range bonus just like the Gallente variant.
The other two races get effective bonuses, instead of the range - making them, in my opinion, just as effective at their particular task.
Arazu/Lach have real multiple EWAR.
Rapier/Huginn have speedbump thrower and a fabulous illumination beam for those that can't figure out who is primary.
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M
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Posted - 2009.07.24 08:49:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Pac SubCom on 24/07/2009 08:55:26 You can still dictate range if you
A. have a fast gang B. have a gang that can kill the fast ships quickly, to prevent being drawn away from the main body of the hostile gang.
B can be done with arty very well, and you have the right support ship already on hand to paint. Webs are for buying some time to destroy or outmaneuver fast movers, they're not only there for tackling. Because this is what you want these ships to be: Mere tacklers.
The notion "painters are situational" equals "speed and tracking is situational", because you won't have both speed and tracking(=damage) without painters, since webbing for tracking purposes is counterproductive if you want to dictate range ie move quickly yourself. Painters are your way out.
Rapier/Huginn/Hyena are painter ships with a web bonus. Used as a tackler only when their gang is too slow to dictate range with hostiles going at 40%. |
Axel Stryder
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Posted - 2009.07.24 13:05:00 -
[55]
Supported.
During the nano era you absolutely needed a Rapier/Hugin in your gang if you wanted to kill anything at all. People started cross training for Rapiers/Hugins just because they were needed so much in gangs.
With speed reduced to a normal level, I think we can cut the minnie recons some slack and reinstate their old bonus.
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Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2009.07.24 16:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Originally by: Dav Varan Not supported,
Complaining that a rapier/hugiin cant hold down the fastest ship in eve is kinda meh.
Seems balanced to me if they can effectivelly web most ships but struggle with the fastest one.
You have not read the OP/informed comments from others. There are no "complaints" regarding "not being able to hold down xyz ship".
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
To take the Vagabond example-given that the role of the Minnie Recons is to slow them (and everything else for that matter) and DICTATE RANGE (key bit)...they simply cannot espcially when dealing with multiple targets. Remember key=force multiplier. A competent Vagabond pilot can currently overheat the MWD to speeds approaching 5km/s. 60% of 5km/s=roughly a crapload faster than a MWD'ing Rapier/Huginn.
Seems to me your incapable of reading even your own posts. Unless of course you consider your own comments to be ill informed in which case I concur.
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
What you DO have are experienced pilots detailing examples of the incapability of the Huginn/Rapier/lolHyena to properly dictate range and engage multiple targets as a proper force multiplier.
Your mixing issues in this paragraph. 1) Dictating range. Even a single webbed Hugiin / Rapier can dictate range to a non speed tanked ship as long as it stays out of +2scram range , very easy to do with a 40km web range.
2)Force Multiplication A Rapier / Hugiin can slow down any target within points range, if that ship is using speed to tank then inevitable they will take more damage. A Rapier / Hugiin can also use its very underutilised tp bonus to increase damage on targets with small sigs.
Conclusion Rapier/Hug is just fine at force multiplication. If you are expecting to dictate range to multiple targets maybe you are just expecting to much of a single hugiin/rapier.
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Its all good though...you choose not to support the proposal. Fair enough-I expect nothing less from a lolCaldari anyway . But at least understand the issue and be against it for a correct reason eh?
Personal attacks dont make your arguments any stronger.
As a lolcaldari/lolmini/lolgallente/lolamarr pilot I fly the Rapier and Hugiin on many occasions.
They are much better now than they were before the speed rebalance. Before they were just too good.
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
p.s. protip1: Vaga is not the fastest ship in the game.
p.p.s. RealPro Tip: I never said they were.
The real problem here is this
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
Look..prior to the current state of affairs I would cheerfully pack triple webs and a flight of EWAR drones allowing me to web multiple targets and send EWAR around the battlefield as needed. Again...force multiplier.
Ruleofthebone expects to be able to spread his webs and then sit happily twiddiling his thumbs or whatever. You need to prioritise your targets and get extra webs on the primary if you wanna improve your "force multiplication" role. Dont ask ccp to do it for you with a overpowered ship so you dont have to think.
Still not supportted, Eve does not need overpowered propulsion tackle fits.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.24 18:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dav Varan
Wall of text/out-of-context quotes blah blah tl;dr
I/We get it. Not supported by you for whatever reason. Thanks for thread bump though .
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JaxxFunk
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.01 23:30:00 -
[58]
You aint seen me...right |
Plutonian
Intransigent
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Posted - 2009.08.02 00:57:00 -
[59]
Supported.
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galphi
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.08.02 03:18:00 -
[60]
Supported. Having to use two webs per target to get them to slow down enough is annoying for a webbing specialist ship.
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Xorth Adimus
The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.08.02 12:13:00 -
[61]
Indeed the rapier/huginn are weak with regard to say a curse or a rook.
Currently a rapier/huginn is barely able to hold down one target, they need to basicly be double pointed by a friendly and double webbed (and often bubbled as warp stabs are pretty much the item to fit for some ratters!) even then they can make it back to the gate out of point range because webs take about 10 years to slow a ship down after they land.
Target the poor painter bonus is a waste of time and mid slot noone fits this, target painters are pretty rubbish unless you have a couple of them and really they are so that missiles are usable and to be honest allot of stealth bombers/torp/heavy missile ships bring their own now anyway (because as we know missiles suck otherwise). The Rapier needs a strength and range bonus to webs. Each web should be able to reduce speed about 80% (basicly deal with one ship).
The rapier is still a very good scout ship due to its speed and sometimes useful. The rapier is still a decent solo tackler with some guys in dps support and works very well in support of bombers/ other recons, it is however probably the weakest of the recons as other recons can deal with multiple targets easily, other recons also will own minmitar ones (if they dont/can't web/run) in most circumstances. Great for a ship that costs about 180mil to fit properly? As we know recons are also always primaried, so they rely on their abilities to survive.. so why engage in a min recon in a fleet battle (where they should shine like other recons) today?!
I basicly don't fly my huginn anymore its slow, can't cloak cant keep stuff of it with the webs and it gets primaried as an easy kill, which is a shame, because it used to be a top notch support ship.
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Niskin
Minmatar Conflagration.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:27:00 -
[62]
I don't have an issue with the current Rapier/Huginn balancing but then I haven't flown one in a while (reason unrelated to balance). The Hyena needs to be looked at though, something just doesn't seem right there. ------------- I am the n00b that time forgot. |
Wasted Skillpoints
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:52:00 -
[63]
Rapier was rap ed and left crying in a corner, fix her. 50% is dumb, especially since warp scram buff.
Supported.
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Crownsith
Potentium Force
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Posted - 2009.09.02 07:47:00 -
[64]
fix the rapier pls
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.02 08:18:00 -
[65]
Not supported, I fly Rapier / Huginn a lot (like, 25% of all my game time?) and webs are fine the way they are.
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rubico1337
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.02 09:07:00 -
[66]
yup, i support %5 per lvl reduction in speed
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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Mira O'karr
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2009.09.02 09:38:00 -
[67]
fully support this. i still love my rapier but the web nerf hit too hard.
double webbed ship running back to gate any one?
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Levistus Junior
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:07:00 -
[68]
I'm in full support of this.
I don;t fly neither the Rapier or the Huggin, but I've fought against them quite a lot. And I can say their performance has dropped drastically after the nano nerf.
I don't advocate a return to the 90% webs, 60% is fine for most ships. But I do feel that a ship whose specialty is webbing should be able to better than average. That's why I like the OP's idea (with a 75% web on a max skilled Minamtar Recon).
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farl
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:18:00 -
[69]
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Jarrel K'Toth
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 12:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Felix Mibaz They aren't useless, just less useful.
Still most horrid EAF is gallente, most terrible force recon is gallente, as well as their combat recon.
You like carebearing much?
Op I support you well!
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Johnny Trigger
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 13:01:00 -
[71]
support
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Orakkus
m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.02 14:38:00 -
[72]
Supported
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 16:35:00 -
[73]
The recons and eaf need to be refigured accross the board. The Falcon "sorta-nerf" and the nano-nerfs that CCP came up with were not the best solutions to the problems presented.
All recons have extreme locking range for a cruiser. Make them all (or at least the Curse/Rook/Lachesis/Huginn) usable again at those distances. What should have been done was a buff to all the other racial ew so it too could be effective at the 150-200km range like ecm was. Then we could have had gallente ew-ships damping(in falloff) against caldari-ew ships and viceversa. Caldari and gallente also having to try to ecm/damp amarr-ew ships which were trying to tracking disrupt fleet snipers, and minmatar ew-ships that were painting everybody.
The coplexity and fateful decisions of what to primary and how to ew in your standard sniper fleet fight would have been a blast. Instead, we have the stupidity of recons today. The cov ops cloakers could stay as short range gankers, but the Combat recons should be in fleet fights making things very interesting, and not just a numbers game.
And yes, web ships need a slight strength boost to webs like damp ships need a slight strenth boost to damps to make these two ships lines worth using again. How about a 7.5% damp strength bonus per level and a 5% per level web strength bonus. Afterall the ****ing Caldari ew boats were never nerfed into uselessness like the damp and web ships. They got a damn strength boost to 30% per level at the same time as they were "nerfed" FFS! Gallente and Minmatar are still waiting for their compensatory boost. And while we're at it give the damn Pilgrim more cargo space so it can power the damn neuts more easily.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.02 18:01:00 -
[74]
Support this topic: Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.02 21:25:00 -
[75]
------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |
Tyler Lowe
DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2009.09.03 08:00:00 -
[76]
I pleaded for this when they announced the change to Stasis Webifiers in the feedback thread.
Supported.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.09.03 12:16:00 -
[77]
Gods yes... the speed nerf was needed badly, but the changes to webs completely gimped pretty much every ship when trying to hold a target at all. It completely castrated the Minmatar specialized ships (Hyena, Huginn, Rapier). It also rendered one of the Paladin's bonuses completely pointless.
As it stands now I can lock a fleeing interceptor at 20km, and it can still run out of web range (even overloaded webs) long before it slows down appreciably (that's 35km of running away while triple webbed and still outrunning an MWD fit hug/rap).
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d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:50:00 -
[78]
Aye, It was a nerf to far.
75% with maxed skills seems about right
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Xzanos
Innocent Victims
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Posted - 2009.09.06 02:38:00 -
[79]
support this all the way.
-solo i have flown a rapier alot. and true with some fancy flying and good skills you can damp a cruiser stay out of range with webs and shoot him with artys. but your dps is **** so unless he is plated you most likely wont get the kill.
-fleet taking of damps and fitting more webs and shield extender or plates mwd ext ext still leaves you having to concentrate on one maybe maybe 2 ships depending on targets. and having the worst survivability of all the recons.
-i would like to maybe see some sort of bonus to its tanking ability ie extra mid or low for plate or shield extender -pg bonus as well would be nice ------------------------------------------------
Mess with the best.....Die like the rest.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.06 08:02:00 -
[80]
Supported. Scrap the painter bonus; it just doesnt fit. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.08 10:17:00 -
[81]
Even if I think this should be a role bonus instead a repalcement of one existing bonus, it is a ok idea.
Also it is actualy 7.5% per level, not 5% if you want to reach 75%.
Supported. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Rab See
|
Posted - 2009.09.08 12:59:00 -
[82]
Yes - its truly annoying. CCP really dont seem to give a toss about minmatar, and the Rapier got b***f****d badly by the web nerf.
WHEN ARE CCP GOING TO FIX AT LEAST THE RAPIER? Balance my a***.
Minmatar Recon Target painters ... NEVER used! Can train skills to improve them, no modules can modify their effectiveness. A single rig can help. Single ship force multiplier. Using more than one TP reduces effectiveness!
Webs ... Cant trains skills to improve, cant improve with modules to modify effectiveness. No rigs can help. Single ship force multiplier (3x webs needed to stop anything). Using more than one Web reduces effectiveness!
Gallente Recon Damp + Point ... skill them, cant amplify their effectiveness with modules, amplify partly with 2 rigs, can force multiply on one, maybe 2 ships. Using more than one Damp reduces effectiveness!
Amarr Recon Neut + TD ... skill them, cant amplify their effectiveness with modules, amplify both with 3 rigs, can force multiply on one, maybe 2 ships. Using more than one TD reduces effectiveness!
Caldari Recon ECM... skill them, amplify their effectiveness with modules, amplify with 2 rigs, can force multiply on several ships. Use more than one guys, stack em high!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, red mist forming.
. . 8/ everyone |
Erichk Knaar
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:38:00 -
[83]
Supported, 5% per level strength increase in lieu of damage bonus. Keep the painters, I like my torp raven.
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A Ingus
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 14:05:00 -
[84]
Supported. And please fix the damp boats while you're at it.
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Zoe Tanaka
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.10 14:22:00 -
[85]
Supported.
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Sybilla Prior
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 14:57:00 -
[86]
Shouldn't some ships who are designed for speed be able to get away from a huginn by design? Otherwise the tactic of slowing ships down would work against every single ship-type, which doesn't promote varied gameplay. This does however mean that alternative tactics should be available to take down really fast ships. Currently the only alternate tactic I can think of is to have a really fast ship of your own, and that might not make too much sense. Alternatively you could say that webs are designed especially to be used against the really fast ships, and therefor should be largely uneffective gainst other ships. I mostly support the proposed change, exept that I wouldn't want the huginn to be effective against every shiptype. Otherwise you end up with Huginns everywhere.
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Liiza Valora
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 15:28:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Liiza Valora on 10/09/2009 15:29:07 I support this thread but not at it's current value. I feel a 90% web bonus for recon 5 is in order.
The web strength for both Minmatar recons and the Hyena is way out of line. It should be 90% for recon 5. If you choose to keep it the way it is then every other recon also needs there bonus reduced to come in line with the current iteration on the minmatar recons. Why this wasn't correctly when the web nerf was instituted is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sence and makes the Minmatar Recons utterly useless for it's intended purpose.
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lilrez
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 15:37:00 -
[88]
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Rab See
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.11 10:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Sybilla Prior
Alternatively you could say that webs are designed especially to be used against the really fast ships, and therefore should be largely ineffective against other ships. I mostly support the proposed change, except that I wouldn't want the huginn to be effective against every shiptype. Otherwise you end up with Huginns everywhere.
The Hug/Rapier isnt effective in any way against anything better than a T1 cruiser, and a few of them cause problems. The Huggin cant fit ranged damage (without LOL gimpfit - its powergrid is a joke) so needs to web and close, getting into enemy damage range.
They're good at dealing with a solo frigate speedboat, but with the web nerf ... so many escape its more or less pointless unless you put yourself in harms way (i.e. scram + damage range) or they coast out of range ... they can barely deal with one ship that theyre meant to deal with - it cannot do this on multiple targets.
The Huggin is not effective against every shiptype alone, and only effective against one shiptype really. Against multiple targets as a 'force multiplier' - LOL - totally and utterly useless. . . 8/ everyone |
2PROVIEF
Section XIII Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:46:00 -
[90]
Edited by: 2PROVIEF on 11/09/2009 11:46:23 supported
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.11 22:54:00 -
[91]
when ccp introduced the nano/web nerfs i remember them saying something about how they were thinking of doing something to the rapier/huggin, but sadly they did not. it is about time they did something, although I don't know if I can honestly see ccp boosting a minmatar ship even if the whole forum supports the topic. ah well, worth a try *click*
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Auri Hella
Downwind Trading Guild
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 20:14:00 -
[92]
Supporting this.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.06 13:47:00 -
[93]
Since CCP looking into Mini atm, there might be the time to also have a serious look into the recons.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
|
Posted - 2009.10.06 20:25:00 -
[94]
My rapier and huginn are working fine, no changes needed.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.06 20:58:00 -
[95]
a dual-webbed vagabond becomes a vagabond that suddenly can be caught by pretty much anything with an AB/MWD and has a sig radius of a small moon.
It's fine. The purpose of minmatar EW is to make it easier to hit stuff. You'll have no trouble hitting a double webbed MWDing vagabond.
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xxxak
No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.06 22:08:00 -
[96]
Edited by: xxxak on 06/10/2009 22:14:42 I support this Op 100%, but I also support the idea of a web strength amp mod. See: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1191029
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 14:09:00 -
[97]
I think hyena is nice where it is.
Rapier and huginn should be 2 ways.
1. Same strength but longer range. 2. Stronger but same range as now.
huginn i think for the stronger one? ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 14:22:00 -
[98]
I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that, since webs are too weak to effectively stop ships, we should boost them on the rapier alone, making it the only ship capable of effectively stopping other ships.
Wouldn't an overall look at webs be better?
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Hrin
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.07 19:34:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Hrin on 07/10/2009 19:33:55 Why fit a webifier when a scram has just about the same range, but will potentially slow down a ship far more than a web? MWDs are pretty standard, and disabling those with a scram is simply far more effective than a web.
As far as the rapier and huginn are concerned, they do not slow down ships enough to warrant their use. Their role has been taken over by the arazu and lachesis.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:13:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/10/2009 20:14:58 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/10/2009 20:14:48 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/10/2009 20:13:46 Not supported only for recons.
Just boosting webs to 75% fixes it. Webs have simply been to hard to the point disruptor+web is very very meh. Scrambler acts like the old web in comparison.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Khandahar Bob
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Posted - 2009.10.08 00:14:00 -
[101]
Webs are not supposed to stop ships; they are supposed to slow ships down. Webs are working as designed and as expected on all ships, including the Rapier and Huginn.
So many scenarios on this thread are referring to the Vagabond or interceptors -- these ships are supposed to be fast.
Nobody complains that a sensor damper works poorly on a ship with a long targeting range; or that a tracking disruptor doesn't make guns stand still on a ship with good tracking; or that guns which will peel the shields right off a ship with weak defenses will only take them halfway down on a ship with good defenses.
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FOKAActive
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 12:44:00 -
[102]
Supporting this.
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Doomed Predator
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:14:00 -
[103]
This should go instead of the TP bonus.
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 23:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Khandahar Bob Webs are not supposed to stop ships; they are supposed to slow ships down.
Everyone who champions the old stupid 90% web returning on any ship needs to realize this: webs are not meant to be a impassable brick wall of doom.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Roland Thorne
Dark Sun Collective Kahora Catori
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 07:32:00 -
[105]
Dual-web anything in a nanoed rapier, and that target will have a lot more to worry about then how powerful those webs are :)
Wouldn't refuse a 5% web boost per lvl, but its not exactly needed either. Things just don't move as fast as they used too. If anything, the only thing effected is gate camps, and that is still moot to a well prepped fleet.
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Foolish Bob
Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust
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Posted - 2009.10.09 12:07:00 -
[106]
It seems to me that the complaints centre on the following
Q: Why can't I solo wtfpwn a vagabond? A: You're in a recon - he's in a HAC. Works as intended.
Q: Why cant' I tackle a vagabond at all though? A: Sure you can - 2 webs means 84% speed reduction. He's travelling SLOWER than if he had no MWD and his sig radius is through the roof.
Q: But why can't I do that with just 1 webber? A: Why should you? Jammers can't jam an ECCM BS regularly with 1 jammer. Ships with sensor boosters need more than 1 damp. Ships with stabs need more than 1 point. Why should your ship not have to do the same against nano ships?
Q: But aren't I supposed to be a force multiplier? A: You are. You create a sphere 40km in radius into which no nano ship can pass without losing it's only form of protection. Not only that you can boost the sig radius and kill the velocity of any other ships that pass within your sphere. Go ask a stealth bomber gang if that's of any use to them.
Q: Why am I not more cap stable? A: You're fitting your ship wrong. With the advent of cheap rigs, there are a veritable plethora of armour and shield tanked options that are cap stable either by themselves or with a cap booster. I'm sorry but your old polycarb nano fit isn't uber any more. Time to put it away.
Not supported. Surprisingly. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in.
I'm also not a unique and special snowflake.
Everything I say should be taken in that context. |
Mihai1
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 17:59:00 -
[107]
Supported
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Volir
Dot.
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 18:19:00 -
[108]
Replace the Target painter bonus with a web strength bonus. Some people seem to be afraid that this will return rapiers and huginns to solopwn ships. This would simply not be the case. What killed the rapier was the RSD nerf. The huginn was nerfed by the speed changes. Increasing the web strength just balances these recons with the other races' and if you switch out the TP bonus for the web bonus, the bellicose would be an actual worthwhile ship. Imagine that.
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TheCraftyHippo
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.10 00:49:00 -
[109]
Supported. Please don't shoot me. I'll explode. |
The Cuckoo
|
Posted - 2009.10.10 12:16:00 -
[110]
As a Mini who could fly the recon ships but has never bothered to get one because they are useless. I support this proposal.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
|
Posted - 2009.10.14 14:06:00 -
[111]
Check this out:
CCP Chronotis > Yes, to a limited degree we are re-introducing "nano" gameplay CCP Chronotis > But, it will be mitigated by a return to the old webifiers strength, combined with a large sig radius penalty per speed mod fitted
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Co'chese
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2009.10.14 14:57:00 -
[112]
why not just make webs script able? have a script that gives your web 75% reduction in speed but it cuts the range in half. simple fix no need to rebalance anything.
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Seth Ruin
Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.10.14 16:19:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Co'chese why not just make webs script able? have a script that gives your web 75% reduction in speed but it cuts the range in half. simple fix no need to rebalance anything.
Also a good idea.
Supporting this topic in hopes it at least gets looked at by CSM/devs.
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