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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:14:00 -
[61]
we are just for the time being have to get used to wspace having an active local will help especially if u have a loose trading network of blues to identify if anyone who may have items for sale pops up |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:21:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 02/02/2009 10:23:52
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Tzar'rim Lets be honest, you want to remove local since that would give you more targets and more targets is good ofcourse.
Wrong I want it removed for greater safety on my expeditions into w-space. Moast players are lazy and won't be arsed to have to go throught the motions of a quick manual scan at the planets and so will leave me alone. This promotes smarter tactics past probing out a wormhole checking local to see if someone is there and if not going to the next system. This puts all the power in the roamers hands as they only have to spend a few seconds to let let local load a system instead of having to do a proper scout. We will eventually have this feature as it just makes sense an all accounts in w-space but the devs have all the info so I will not emorage against their position just try to subtly(or not) bump up its sense of priority.
You're either trying to hide your true reasons or you're sorely mistaken. You are ofcourse right in stating that most people are alergic to effort but lets have a look at the 2 sides;
- someone in Wspace doing their thing, they're occupied with rats and most of them will be (lets be honest) PVEers who don't/can't understand anything over "more damage on my CNR" and "increase mining yield!!!". Result is them not paying attention too much
- a small group of active hunters trying to find some juicy targets, they got their scout, falcons, dps and neuts all ready to rock
Guess who'll benefit the most from removing local? I'm all for effort=benefits, it's my mantra so to speak and removing local would actually benefit my 'line of work'. But that doesn't automatically mean that I'll agree to it. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:24:00 -
[63]
Originally by: ollobrains2 we are just for the time being have to get used to wspace having an active local will help especially if u have a loose trading network of blues to identify if anyone who may have items for sale pops up
Any loose trading networks are going to be run out of empire. The utter randomness of w<>w connections will make any attempt at trading from within w-space highly erratic and possibly deadly if you jump into the wrong system. Basically the expedition leader makes deals with suppliers and when the stocks get low the expedition probes for an empire connection and asks for a delivery in it once found. This will require an anti-jita effect in that it will pay off big to have small stocks all over empire so when an opportunity arrives a trader can cash in with w-space residents in a hurry to dump stocks and resupply. Just think of the opportunities if a pos fuel supplier had all the required stocks everywhere and could guarrentee almost instand delivery no matter what system you pop out in. Removing local will greatly promote this effect I think. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:30:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tzar'rim - someone in Wspace doing their thing, they're occupied with rats and most of them will be (lets be honest) PVEers who don't/can't understand anything over "more damage on my CNR" and "increase mining yield!!!". Result is them not paying attention too much
- a small group of active hunters trying to find some juicy targets, they got their scout, falcons, dps and neuts all ready to rock
Guess who'll benefit the most from removing local?
Thats easy. The group who has the greatest situational awareness of course. Will there be inattentive pvers? Yes, they will be the prey of the attentive hunters who are ****ed they missed the attentive ratters in the last hole and will as a result get an even greater rush off the kill. The strong prosper and the weak die. Everyone benefits in some way be it a well satified killer or an inattentive player who just got a wakeup call.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:31:00 -
[65]
Yaaarr. Remove local for W-Space. That would be a total new expirience and we could se how it works.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:36:00 -
[66]
Local in delayed mode, especially coupled with less boring probing mechanics sounds good. But the idea has a much further merit. CCP are often saying that they are considering to do something about local in 0.0. Of course, despite their intentions, they are very careful in doing this as it might have unpredictable effects on existing game mechanics.
Introducing the mechanic in a new part of the game, and seeing how it works is a good experimental practice. They can observe how good it works and see if it is a good idea to introduce it in 0.0, or bring even w-space to insta-local.
Personally I htink that delayed local is good.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:46:00 -
[67]
wont happen i dont think at least yet.... good points and bad points remembering there wont be a lot of peeps in wspace anyway |
Gneeznow
Minmatar Goo Spew
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:56:00 -
[68]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. DO IT FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:58:00 -
[69]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Nor am I willing to devalue this new addition to EVE by making it some sort of test-ground for mechanical changes that can't even be tested there. Hidden space is not 0.0, it's not designed to be like 0.0, stop applying 0.0 to hidden space. If we were to roll this out with delayed local we'd have absolutely 0 information after 3 months as we would lack any control set to reference.
Ops, didn't read that part. I didn't watch it form your perspective. Good point there.
Quote: Like most people I play with I do want local gone. But not as an afterthought, nor as some research project. Bring some reasoning to the table. It's not enough to want free candy. Everyone wants free candy.
Ok, this is my reasoning. I think that instant local IS the free candy. It basically gives too much information to both the attacker and defender. Of course they want the free intel, it makes things easier to both of them, without taking the hassle to learn part of the game. People have got so spoiled to know everything that goes in the system for free, that they whine about "AFK cloakers"... Information gathering is always a large part of warfare and you should NEVER be 100% sure about the info you gather.
Also it weakens the role of ships specialized to collect intel, like covops. You can get almost the same intel (and let the enemy know that you know) both with a covop and a shuttle. I think that is ridiculous.
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BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.02 10:59:00 -
[70]
I wouls also like to see local delayed/removed for a trial on several current EVE systems.
E.G. A fleet battle of 300 or so local stays. Much more htan this and it suddenly dissapears with only the amount in local showing up. This would make for some AWESOME suprise stunts EVE history
t2 precisions |
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:00:00 -
[71]
Oh oh another point in favor. Escort pilots in a commandship or orca are usually watching furry pron on a mining op simply because there is nothing else to do. Whoops no instalocal info so better mount a probe launcher and occupy yourself with running scans for ships and IIRC at the same time sites for your combat ships to run. It just gets better and better.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Aylara
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:01:00 -
[72]
I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems!
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Sade Onyx
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Aylara I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems!
Delayed by how long? would this delay be a fixed time delay, or variable depending on the ship type, the W-space type or just completly random?
I know this is Science *Fiction* but it would be nice to see a scientific reason for this delay (all be it a fictional one) rather than... oh it just better for gameplay.
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:15:00 -
[74]
Most of us remember a bug which removed local for some hours after a patch a year ago. It was awesome. Till i started a 1v1 and 10sec later 10 more hostiles arrive and i have to bail. So yeah, removing local would not improve PvP one bit in my opinion, it would push it even too far, making big gangs and altscouts an absolute must, while stressing the need for cloaked or fast ships. Just undocking would become an act of suicidal behavior. Not to speak the scanner mechanic isnt ready for it.
Lets see how w-space plays out and then change the SOV system, and then talk about local again.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:18:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 11:21:44
Originally by: Sade Onyx
Originally by: Aylara I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems!
Delayed by how long? would this delay be a fixed time delay, or variable depending on the ship type, the W-space type or just completly random?
I know this is Science *Fiction* but it would be nice to see a scientific reason for this delay (all be it a fictional one) rather than... oh it just better for gameplay.
Idealy you won't show up in local unless you show up on the overview or you type something in local chat. A probe or the built in scanner should show only the ship if its uncloaked. Tbh I guess we need a clarification from the devs on what they mean by delayed local.
Originally by: Perry Most of us remember a bug which removed local for some hours after a patch a year ago. It was awesome. Till i started a 1v1 and 10sec later 10 more hostiles arrive and i have to bail. So yeah, removing local would not improve PvP one bit in my opinion, it would push it even too far, making big gangs and altscouts an absolute must, while stressing the need for cloaked or fast ships. Just undocking would become an act of suicidal behavior. Not to speak the scanner mechanic isnt ready for it.
Lets see how w-space plays out and then change the SOV system, and then talk about local again.
This is why I would only really be intersted in this feature for w-space. Unlike normal space there is no easy way to get backup quickley and with the ship mass restrictions the locals already in system will normally outnumber any invader cause the invaders will want a quick way out and will not have maxxed thier ship numbers and close the hole.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Shevar
Minmatar Target Practice incorporated
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:19:00 -
[76]
If you remove local it would be best to remove pilots in space and docked the last 30 minutes as well from the map.
Sure roaming gangs wouldn't like it because you can't spot npc'ers or miners or gatecamps (although pod killings also shows it) anymore without physically scanning them but otherwise you only remove the tools to detect the other side only for 1 side (the roamers, the map is useless to find them yet the map can be used to find people busy doing w/e).
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:25:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Shevar If you remove local it would be best to remove pilots in space and docked the last 30 minutes as well from the map.
Sure roaming gangs wouldn't like it because you can't spot npc'ers or miners or gatecamps (although pod killings also shows it) anymore without physically scanning them but otherwise you only remove the tools to detect the other side only for 1 side (the roamers, the map is useless to find them yet the map can be used to find people busy doing w/e).
Afaik there are not going to be any map statistics for w-space. I don't even think they are going to show up on the map at all even when you are in one though I'm sure it will let you at least see the planetary system section.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:29:00 -
[78]
Why is the database dev (CCP PrismX) so hardcore? Wanting local gone and everything, **** yeah! I imagine he is some super database nerd but maybe he is more like rambo, a rambo nerd that does database stuff and feeds on carebear souls. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:31:00 -
[79]
I seriously doubt they'll remove local without putting something else in it's place that is even worse. |
Talkietoaster
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:32:00 -
[80]
I support "delayed local" in w-space.
IMHO it goes like this:
In k-space (1.0-0.0) you have gates that let all non-cap ships in and out. So from a technical viewpoint if one could access (or hack into) stargate communications, you would be in a position to know who is in-system and who is not. Hence "local" as it is in k-space kinda makes sense.
In w-space however, there is no such hardware and so there is no communications where you could get that information from, so it makes absolute sense to have local in delayed mode.
my two isk/100 |
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Aylara
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:35:00 -
[81]
Reason: sadly, the local chat is the info tool with 100% certainty. Having this in WH space will certainly ruin player expectations towards real exploration. It will 100% kill the "into the unknown" feeling.
Quoting from the wormhole blog: "One of the criticisms that have been levied against EVE is that space is becoming crowded and that there really is no feeling of exploration. Indeed, from the very first moment you set foot in the universe of EVE, all of you have had a map at your disposal that shows you exactly where every solar system is, how to get there and what you may expect to find."
I might add to that sentence (even if this is actually covered by "expect to find"): who is in there.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:44:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Like most people I play with I do want local gone. But not as an afterthought, nor as some research project. Bring some reasoning to the table. It's not enough to want free candy. Everyone wants free candy. But I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
So why do you want local gone? Shouldn't you find reasoning in your desire to remove local, or is it some vague notion coming out of nowhere? If there indeed is so that 'most people' want local gone, then that in and of itself shows that there are reasons to remove it.
However, there are few ideas that show their true impact without research, we can speculate about local until we are blue in the face, but we would not see the real consequences of a lack of local (or it's complete removal) until it was implemented to a realistic scale. I don't agree with you that live "research projects" are necessarily a bad thing in and of themselves, I believe that properly used you can get a lot of good out of them. For instance, everyone was excited about faction warfare in the theoretical stage, but after it was implemented; you could see it's many flaws and loopholes. You can call it what you want, but Faction Warfare in no way is a finished product, it's basically the research project that you claim is an undesirable element.
The real issue is what you do with the data, the feedback and the results you get from these "research projects". If you can't follow through and finish what you started (as with Faction Warfare) then, but only then do I agree with you that "research projects" are a bad thing. But only in it's lack of followups, not as a concept.
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Dristra
Amarr Idle Haven
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:50:00 -
[83]
Anon local could work, but you need to make the scanner automatic, so you just get this "radar" that shows stuff in a XX au range around your ship.
Originally by: CCP Atropos the physics engine has balls
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:51:00 -
[84]
generally if local is quite most of the time peeps iwll go afk its going to be unlucky for u to get a lot of traffic through youre local wsystem if anyone turns up the other option is u might be able to trap them in youre space by collapsing the wormhole and if u have a pos and a few peeps online single targets after pvp might find it fun if u collaspe a hole on em
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Catrina Denaries
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:52:00 -
[85]
I support this with all of my bleeding heart. NO insta-local-info in WH space! ----- The yarr is strong with this one. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:55:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Talkietoaster I support "delayed local" in w-space.
IMHO it goes like this:
In k-space (1.0-0.0) you have gates that let all non-cap ships in and out. So from a technical viewpoint if one could access (or hack into) stargate communications, you would be in a position to know who is in-system and who is not. Hence "local" as it is in k-space kinda makes sense.
In w-space however, there is no such hardware and so there is no communications where you could get that information from, so it makes absolute sense to have local in delayed mode.
my two isk/100
Damn, I was hoping to save that point for later use but yes indeed it is a good rp reason.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Aeo IV
Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.02.02 11:56:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Like most people I play with I do want local gone.
Just to point this out, anecdotes aren't very good arguments, because people typically hang out with people of similar views.
I'd say that most people *I* hang out with in eve don't want to see local removed, for example.
It you serve you well if you tried to find out what the majority of players really did want, rather then assuming your small slice of EVE is a representative example of EVE's viewpoints.
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Odyessus
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:00:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Odyessus on 02/02/2009 12:01:02 thumbs up
maybe its me, but sometimes in eve, and especially in high sec, i just wanna be alone to do my business. its nice (that sounds ghey) to know this for certain using local. however, i agree with whisper. you may all cry: "huh?!". i agree because lets face it, we are flying internet spaceships. internet spaceships have the tech to know who is in the local system - the onboard scanner. where is this 'local chat' tech coming from? it seems its addition is purely for convenience rather than roleplay.
so, delay/scrap local in 0.0 & Wspace, and increase the range of the onboard scanner so it can pick up the whole system.
ody
ps: the devblog mentioned why this game mechanic would be difficult to change, cause delaying/scrapping local in wspace means it would have to be done in 0.0. the implications of this change in game mechanics is far reaching. im thinking - attack of the blobs (on ur door step)...
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CCP Prism X
Gallente C C P CCP
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:02:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Aeo IV Just to point this out, anecdotes aren't very good arguments, because people typically hang out with people of similar views.
I'd say that most people *I* hang out with in eve don't want to see local removed, for example.
It you serve you well if you tried to find out what the majority of players really did want, rather then assuming your small slice of EVE is a representative example of EVE's viewpoints.
Isn't this a rather redundant attack on my post? It's quite clear from the pronoun I use and the fact that I mention people I play with, rather than all of EVE, that I was referring to a personal opinion held be me and those I associate with in game?
And ain't that why I posted here in the first place? I'm interested in the reasons and rationale of other people than me? Dude?
~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008. |
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:08:00 -
[90]
LEAVE LOCAL ALONE -----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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