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Eissus
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:01:00 -
[1]
How would you guys fit this wounderful ship for pwning missions? I currently run:
4x Faction Tachyon's. 1x Officer NOS. 1x Tractor. 1x Faction XL-SB. 2x Faction SB Amp. 4x Random Resist. 3x Faction Heat Sink. 2x PDS.
3x CCC T1
I get a dmg modifier of approx 22 (i have sucky skills, working on that) Havent really found anything that had a chase of killing me (missionwise). But eh, good can always get better right? So any suggestions? Besides the obious and change all the modules for better one's :) Been thinking of switching out the rigs for 2x CCC T2 and 1x Core Defence Cap safeguard T2. But dunno. What ya think?
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2008.11.26 20:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 26/11/2008 20:08:31 I armor tank mine nicely since energy weapons and shields are such a bad pairing it's not funny.
4x MPL 3x Tractor/Salvage
100mn Faction AB Tracking Comp II x3 Cap Recharger x2
Faction LAR T2/Faction Hardeners to flavor 1600mm RT
3x CCC
T2 small drones.
Just in case: Onerios in support.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.11.26 21:11:00 -
[3]
Originally by: I SoStoned Edited by: I SoStoned on 26/11/2008 20:08:31 I armor tank mine nicely since energy weapons and shields are such a bad pairing it's not funny.
4x MPL 3x Tractor/Salvage
100mn Faction AB Tracking Comp II x3 Cap Recharger x2
Faction LAR T2/Faction Hardeners to flavor 1600mm RT
3x CCC
T2 small drones.
Just in case: Onerios in support.
Oh bloody hell, the thing does just fine by itself with a shieldtank, one of the sturdiest ships around.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.27 01:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: I SoStoned Edited by: I SoStoned on 26/11/2008 20:08:31 I armor tank mine nicely since energy weapons and shields are such a bad pairing it's not funny.
4x MPL 3x Tractor/Salvage
100mn Faction AB Tracking Comp II x3 Cap Recharger x2
Faction LAR T2/Faction Hardeners to flavor 1600mm RT
3x CCC
T2 small drones.
Just in case: Onerios in support.
you made a paladin. Try another thread ;).
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Zo5o
Longcat is Long
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Posted - 2008.11.27 02:23:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Zo5o on 27/11/2008 02:24:00
Quote: I armor tank mine nicely since energy weapons and shields are such a bad pairing it's not funny.
4x MPL 3x Tractor/Salvage
100mn Faction AB Tracking Comp II x3 Cap Recharger x2
Faction LAR T2/Faction Hardeners to flavor 1600mm RT
3x CCC
T2 small drones.
Just in case: Onerios in support.
0/10
Trolling attempts need to be halfway believable, you know.
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EspionageX
Arbitrary Freedom
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Posted - 2008.11.27 03:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: EspionageX I use this on my Nightmare - (Note my skills arn't great but it does get me by )
Highs: AN Tachy x4 - Loaded with ANUV for general range - ANMF close Drone Link Aug. x2
Mids: Cap Recharge T2 x1 (This is a toss up - Fit what you want) Shield Hardners T2 to fit mission x4 Shield Boost AMP x1 Best named shield booster x1 (Could never be arsed to get a faction one heh. Does work ok though)
Lows: Heat Sinks T2 x3 Tracking Enhancer T2 x1 Named PDU x1 (This is really a toss up - fit w/e you want really)
Rigs: CCC x3
Drones: Hammerheads T2 x5 Hobgoblins T2 x5
This ship has served me well. Has vertical awesomeness and rips through missions. Have yet to regret the purchase
Quoting myself from another similar thread that was asked not long ago O_o
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surothe
Caldari Public Venture Enterprises Safe And Fun Environment
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Posted - 2008.11.27 06:51:00 -
[7]
High: 4x Faction Tachs W/ANMF, 1 drone link, 1 tractor Mid: 1 Faction X-Large SB, 1 Faction Shield Boost Amp, 3x rat specific hardeners, 2x whatever(usually cap recharger and shield extender depending on mission) Low: 3x Faction Heat Sinks, 2x PDU's 2x CCC I, 1x CCC II 5x Hammerhead II's, 5x Hobgoblin II's
Melts all Sansha's and Blood missions. Gets through Guristas/Serpintis. With my skills (ok, not great) I get a damage mod of ~24. Seeing wrecking hits of 3000+ is definately FTW!
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.11.27 09:06:00 -
[8]
I'd consider one of two ways for armor tanking a nightmare.
[Nightmare, Sparmor] Brynn's Modified Large Armor Repairer Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Stasis Webifier II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Drone Link Augmentor I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
This for keeping the target at range and working more towards effective DPS and not raw DPS. Swapping for mega pulse and risking the close-in damage will let you swap out the augment for another vampire and likewise swapping out the second painter for another cap recharger II will let you swap a CCC rig out for nano pump or nano accelerator rig to boost your tank.
The other build would be similar to my raven's tank, and yes I armor tank my raven.
[Nightmare, New Setup 2] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency L Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I Nanobot Accelerator I Ancillary Current Router I
Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
This one is just there to say, "Hey, look, the nightmare can still be an armor tanked laser boat, really."
The DPS isn't much to write home about, same as the previous build, but this one's based around the 3xCCC rig philsophy in a better way than the previous design which in turn means that you can swap tanks as the mission requires.
Sadly, a mid/low setup of 5/7 on a ship like the machariel is far better for swap-a-tank play styles than the nightmare's 7/5. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Eissus
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Posted - 2008.11.27 09:36:00 -
[9]
Hey, and thanks for all the response.
Armor tanking Nightmares? Hmm.. The reason i chose this ship is beacuse you can fit an great shield tank aswell as haveing great dmg output. Why would anyone really wanna armor tank it, and lose all the lovely lowslot dmg mods.. Ok "just because i can" is a somewhat valid reason :) And i can see why someone would wanna sheildtank a Mach, just for the sole purpose of getting lowslots for dmg / tracking mods.
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Coriander Rinne
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.27 09:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shereza I'd consider one of two ways for armor tanking a nightmare.
I'd consider none, to be honest. Sacrificing your heat sinks hurts you in two ways:
1. It hurts your efficiency. An extra gun shot to kill this frigate, an extra volley to kill this battleship, it adds up when you're doing hours of missioning. Significantly.
2. And this is the ironic part, you're killing your own tank. The nightmare's damage is so great that it oftentimes doesn't need a tank. Mind you, it has the capability for a shield tank beefy enough to mitigate just about anything PvE, but honestly? If you're set up right you hardly need it.
OP, your fit is fine. You can try EspionageX's, but really, it's just a slight variation. I would not change the rigging, but I would try to get my hands on some T2 tachs if you can fit them into your skill plan.
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Letri Bimmet
Gallente Estrale Frontiers BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 11:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Letri Bimmet on 27/11/2008 11:31:00 Lows: 3x Heat sink II 2x Cap Flux Coil
Mids: 2x Inv Field II (or mission specific hardeners) 2x faction Shield Boost Amp 2x Cap recharger II 1x Faction/deadspace Large Shield Booster
Highs: 4x Tachyon II's (or best named/faction) 1x Drone link 1x tractor
Rigs: 2x CCC 1x semi memory cell
Drones: 5x hammers II 5x hobs II
Premaruns the booster and most stuff dies so fast that a xlarge isn't really needed. The memory cell adds a bit more buffer to your pool of cap.
And on some easier missions I just leave the inv fields on. Others such as blockade/recon/wc I take specific hardeners.
The tractor is cause I'm too lazy to fly all the way over to some wreck to pick up a mission specific can.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:11:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 27/11/2008 12:39:24 To get through the missions the quickest, while keeping decent survivability:
4x Tach, Autotargetter II, tractor (Pulse for Damsel, Vengeance)
Booster + 3 hards (As above, Large Deadspce/Faction is adequate while keeping costs reasonable) Boost Amp / AB Cap Booster TC / AB / SB
3x HS, 2x TE
3x CCC
2x Curator, 5x Hobgobs
4x HS with 1x TE has so far been mostly indistinguishable from 3xHS, 2x TE in completion speed, and the latter uses less cap and crystals. With range script the mods give a nice 47km optimal with MF, meaning you can use that 90% of the time. Gamma is good to 60, maybe 65km, UV to 90.
Some missions, like The Score, it's worthwhile to loose the Boost amp for an AB. Other missions more tank is preferrable, but speed is also needed, so then we drop the TC for an AB. Base setup is great for majority of Lazor missions.
As for Pulse vs Tach, Tach will be better in most missions, only in a few mishes with lots of closerange cruisers can Pulse compete. NOTE, that this is my best estimation based on numbers, using experiences with Faction Pulses. I'm still 25 days from Large Pulse spec 4. I think it very safe to say, however, that there are very few missions where Pulse is better. Of the missions my agent gives, just the two I mentioned.
Relying on just one cap module, the cap booster, along with the rigs, gives room for tracking mods with enhance the ships performance greatly. While permatanks are nice, you sacrifice performance to achieve it.
Autotargetter vs Drone link, well, sometimes I'd like to have a drone link, but 57km with EW drone interfacing 4 means very little time is lost with drones idle. And the +3 targets the autotargetter gives is very helpful in minimizing idle guns.
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Maritza Masi
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Maritza Masi on 27/11/2008 12:22:57 this
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Maritza Masi Edited by: Maritza Masi on 27/11/2008 12:22:57 this
I remember that..must've been the most expensive sub-capital kill ever.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Jennz
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Coriander Rinne
Originally by: Shereza I'd consider one of two ways for armor tanking a nightmare.
I'd consider none, to be honest. Sacrificing your heat sinks hurts you in two ways:
1. It hurts your efficiency. An extra gun shot to kill this frigate, an extra volley to kill this battleship, it adds up when you're doing hours of missioning. Significantly.
2. And this is the ironic part, you're killing your own tank. The nightmare's damage is so great that it oftentimes doesn't need a tank. Mind you, it has the capability for a shield tank beefy enough to mitigate just about anything PvE, but honestly? If you're set up right you hardly need it.
OP, your fit is fine. You can try EspionageX's, but really, it's just a slight variation. I would not change the rigging, but I would try to get my hands on some T2 tachs if you can fit them into your skill plan.
Bingo!
This guy has nailed it.
Anyone not using at least 3 heatsinks on a Nightmare needs to reprocess their ship and go back to flying CNRs. The single great thing about the NM, in spite of it's problems vs Guristas/Angels, is that it kills things so quickly that you take less damage as a result - "Dead rats don't do damage", etc.
NM used to be an armor tanker but was specifically changed to be a shield tanker, and it does this very well - at least equivalent to a CNR (you can essentially transplant the midslots from a Raven/CNR to a Nightmare with no other changes).
Please for the sake of the children don't armor tank a Nightmare.
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Spider Silva
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:44:00 -
[16]
What an idiot flying that around, talk about overkill, at current prices theres about 30 bill minimum there. Must have been an isk buyer.
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Jennz
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 27/11/2008 12:39:24 To get through the missions the quickest, while keeping decent survivability:
4x Tach, Autotargetter II, tractor (Pulse for Damsel, Vengeance)
Booster + 3 hards (As above, Large Deadspce/Faction is adequate while keeping costs reasonable) Boost Amp / AB Cap Booster TC / AB / SB
3x HS, 2x TE
3x CCC
2x Curator, 5x Hobgobs
What's your experience of replacing 5 Medium drones with 2 Sentry drones out of interest? It's something I've been considering myself since Hammerheads are somewhat gimped now vs frigates and everything else I deal with myself quick enough anyway.
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Spider Silva
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:47:00 -
[18]
i use 4 heat sinks on my nightmare, with 1 tech 2 pdu in lows.
meds are 2 hardeners specific 1 cn invul 1 tech 2 boost amp 1 xl booster 2 cap recharger 2s
highs 4x tech 2 tachs 2 tractors 1 salveger and rigs are 2x ccc1 1x ccc2
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Jennz
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:53:00 -
[19]
4 HS is stupid imo, the stacking penalty is so huge and there's plenty of better uses for a low-slot. Each to their own though.
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Spider Silva
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jennz 4 HS is stupid imo, the stacking penalty is so huge and there's plenty of better uses for a low-slot. Each to their own though.
i could think of nothing else to use it for, i used to use 2 pdu 2s but i permatank with 1, the best plan of action for me was to get a little more damage
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Eissus
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:01:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Eissus on 27/11/2008 13:01:45
Originally by: JennzNM used to be an armor tanker but was specifically changed to be a shield tanker, and it does this very well - at least equivalent to a CNR (you can essentially transplant the midslots from a Raven/CNR to a Nightmare with no other changes).
Please for the sake of the children don't armor tank a Nightmare. [:(
Well.. The thing i like with the Nightmare compared to the CNR (Fly one of those buggers VS Gurista / Angel) is the huge cpu on the Nightmare. There is no problem what so ever to fit what you like, comebine that with 1-2 PDS in lowslots and you'll have a huge grid aswell,.. Always funny with something you acctually can fit teh way you want.
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Maritza Masi
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Spider Silva What an idiot flying that around, talk about overkill, at current prices theres about 30 bill minimum there. Must have been an isk buyer.
Carebears making asumptions and talking out of theyr a*ss about ppl with balls.. When that ship was ganked, the whole package value was at about 35-40 billion.. and no, no isk buyer, just a mission obsessed player, aka.. epic carebear, much like you Spider.. with more class tho.
@Sokratesz, yeah i think it is the most expensive sub capital kill that ever made it on a killboard.. not the most expensive subcap ship i've seen tho
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 27/11/2008 13:13:41
Originally by: Jennz What's your experience of replacing 5 Medium drones with 2 Sentry drones out of interest? It's something I've been considering myself since Hammerheads are somewhat gimped now vs frigates and everything else I deal with myself quick enough anyway.
I used to have 5x Hammerheads and just the one Sentry, but with the nerf I made this change. Ironically, it would probably have been a better fit even before the nerf, I was just so used to the effortlessness of using the hammerheads for nearly everything.
In many missions the rats never come up close (because you've already shot them at 40-60km) in which case mediums, and lights too for that matter, loose most of their dps to flight time. 2x Curators are like having an extra ~100dps gun, that will fire automatically if you do not direct it. It's a quite notable benefit, and much better then 5x QR-Hammerheads for vast majority of missions. Though obviously they're not of much use when you need to keep moving between gates, but lights work fine for that.
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Jennz
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Maritza Masi
Originally by: Spider Silva What an idiot flying that around, talk about overkill, at current prices theres about 30 bill minimum there. Must have been an isk buyer.
Carebears making asumptions and talking out of theyr a*ss about ppl with balls.. When that ship was ganked, the whole package value was at about 35-40 billion.. and no, no isk buyer, just a mission obsessed player, aka.. epic carebear, much like you Spider.. with more class tho.
@Sokratesz, yeah i think it is the most expensive sub capital kill that ever made it on a killboard.. not the most expensive subcap ship i've seen tho
I did a bit of reading about that ship and the guy who lost it posted in the thread where it was first announced, was very magnanimous about it - wasn't raging about it, and said that he had accrued the modules over a period of time when they didn't cost so much. He took the loss on the chin like a man.
"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." applies I think.
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Jennz
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 27/11/2008 13:13:41
Originally by: Jennz What's your experience of replacing 5 Medium drones with 2 Sentry drones out of interest? It's something I've been considering myself since Hammerheads are somewhat gimped now vs frigates and everything else I deal with myself quick enough anyway.
I used to have 5x Hammerheads and just the one Sentry, but with the nerf I made this change. Ironically, it would probably have been a better fit even before the nerf, I was just so used to the effortlessness of using the hammerheads for nearly everything.
In many missions the rats never come up close (because you've already shot them at 40-60km) in which case mediums, and lights too for that matter, loose most of their dps to flight time. 2x Curators are like having an extra ~100dps gun, that will fire automatically if you do not direct it. It's a quite notable benefit, and much better then 5x QR-Hammerheads for vast majority of missions. Though obviously they're not of much use when you need to keep moving between gates, but lights work fine for that.
Thanks, that's really handy info.
Don't really wanna go off track here but is there a reason you went for Curators over Warriors or Gardes?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jennz 4 HS is stupid imo, the stacking penalty is so huge and there's plenty of better uses for a low-slot. Each to their own though.
4th damage mod adds 6% dps, well worth it, and tanking in pve is **** easy anyway so what else to do with those lows?
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Jennz
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jennz on 27/11/2008 13:44:38
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Jennz 4 HS is stupid imo, the stacking penalty is so huge and there's plenty of better uses for a low-slot. Each to their own though.
4th damage mod adds 6% dps, well worth it, and tanking in pve is **** easy anyway so what else to do with those lows?
Tracking enhancer? PDS/CFC (free up a mid slot for AB/TC/PWNAGE), etc
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.27 14:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shereza armor
YOu should get a paladin, really. No damage mod setups are very fail even tho they can tank. A paladin would be berfect for it tho.
Think about nightmare: Amarr weapons, Caldari tanking. Use a CNR tank on the Nightmare and you are golden.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 14:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 27/11/2008 13:44:38
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Jennz 4 HS is stupid imo, the stacking penalty is so huge and there's plenty of better uses for a low-slot. Each to their own though.
4th damage mod adds 6% dps, well worth it, and tanking in pve is **** easy anyway so what else to do with those lows?
Tracking enhancer? PDS/CFC (free up a mid slot for AB/TC/PWNAGE), etc
You already have a mid for a painter. PDU/CFC are useless unless you really want to permarun a booster. 4 damage mods + DCU would be my choice as it is on raven and maelstrom.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
Sanzorz
Amarr Mark Of Chaos Liberty.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 14:51:00 -
[30]
High: 4 Faction Tachyons - 2 Tractors
Mid: Gist XL Booster, 3 T2 hardeners, T2 Tracking Computer, 2 T2 Cap Rechargers
Low: 3 Faction HS, T2 PDU, T2 Cap Flux
3 CCC rigs.
Tanks and shoots forever with MF crystals. 28 point something damage modifer with good gunnery skills.
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