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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
257
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go! |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
160
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Somebody can't afford his own plex. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
229
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go!
You could get a job and benefit from selling at times aswel.
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
257
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Somebody can't afford his own plex.
I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
257
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Aranakas wrote:Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go! You could get a job and benefit from selling at times aswel.
Nope, spending real money for fake money is pointless. Also unfair to those playing the game. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
229
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:
Nope, spending real money for fake money is pointless. Also unfair to those playing the game.
What's unfair about it? I never read anywhere that converting GTC to Plex and alternativly selling Plex was only allowed for certain players. It would be unfair if the Plex sale was only for certain individuals.
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Vanir Tsero
Critical Mass Inc. Pinked
48
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
You clearly don't understand what "Pay to Win" actually is.
Pay To Win is where you pay real money for ships that are not obtainable in game with Isk.
For Example:
If CCP Sold a Tech 4 Battlecruiser for $25.00 That is considered Pay to Win. If CCP Sold Tech 3 Ammo for $15.00 for a count of 5,000 That is considered Pay To Win.
If CCP Sold an In-Game item for $20.00 that can be traded in game for in-game currency... That is NOT Pay To Win. Why? Because it gives noone an advantage. The 600,000,000 ISK I got from selling the Plex on the market, 7,000 other players just made by running Incursions for a few hours.
Your ignorance bothers me for some reason. :( |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
181
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Posted - 2012.04.04 19:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:
I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk and want to keep it.
I pay for my account like a 'good' subscriber as well. I also pay for several other peoples account who otherwise may or may not be able to play a game due to their own tight budget. They thank me by paying me in isk. The company gets paid, I get paid, and somebody gets to play. Sounds like the triangle of win to me. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
2988
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Actually the day PLEX is removed is probably the day I will stop playing (except on maybe one account).
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Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vanir Tsero wrote:You clearly don't understand what "Pay to Win" actually is.
Pay To Win is where you pay real money for ships that are not obtainable in game with Isk.
For Example:
If CCP Sold a Tech 4 Battlecruiser for $25.00 That is considered Pay to Win. If CCP Sold Tech 3 Ammo for $15.00 for a count of 5,000 That is considered Pay To Win.
If CCP Sold an In-Game item for $20.00 that can be traded in game for in-game currency... That is NOT Pay To Win. Why? Because it gives noone an advantage. The 600,000,000 ISK I got from selling the Plex on the market, 7,000 other players just made by running Incursions for a few hours.
Your ignorance bothers me for some reason. :(
Even worse than ignorance is when people make up convoluted, ad-hoc definitions of things to fit their arguments.
Whether you by the item directly from CCP or indirectly via the middleman of a PLEX, it is still paying real money for an in-game advantage. Therefore, it is P2W.
End of story.
Feel free to argue little boy - mere words will not spare you from being wrong and dumb. |
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Dusenman
Black Lance RAZOR Alliance
5
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Actually the day PLEX is removed is probably the day I will stop playing (except on maybe one account).
Hmmmmm I don't pay for my accounts with PLEX, but it would be interesting to see how it would effect the game. There is a large number of people that play simply to pay for the game. So the amount of people in game may drop from such an event. GM Homonoia: In other words; feel free to use the tactic, but don't be an utter and total ***. |
Slime Slurper
Miserable Gits
0
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Somebody can't afford his own plex. I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk and want to keep it.
Preach it!
If I was to buy PLEX, I would feel I was cheating my toon. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
181
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Slime Slurper wrote:Aranakas wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Somebody can't afford his own plex. I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk and want to keep it. Preach it! If I was to buy PLEX, I would feel I was cheating my toon.
How would you feel you are cheating your toon? |
Slime Slurper
Miserable Gits
0
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Slime Slurper wrote:Aranakas wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Somebody can't afford his own plex. I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk and want to keep it. Preach it! If I was to buy PLEX, I would feel I was cheating my toon. How would you feel you are cheating your toon?
My toon worked hard for his Isk. To just take it away is wrong for the poor dude. He'd probably sue me for racism or something. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
lol all the botters and RMTers?
But Goons are still here *shock*
Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
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AureoBroker
Natural Inventions Solyaris Chtonium
12
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
ISK does not garauntee "Win". PLEX-selling ISK is not different than normal-earned ISK. And earning ISK is a competitive challenge (can be, though), it's just time-consuming. The day CCP sells something that can't be attained through ingame methods in any way, that's P2W. We could even draw the line onto "Not produce-able in game, better than it's normal correspective" and still sellable on market (That giving an effective advantage would depend on the players - if the $$-bought thing is readily avaiable, then who cares where it spawns; if it's hilariously costly, AND has no do-good on the economy, perhaps...)
PLEX is just a way to trade one's money into another's time. And both sides are happy enough to keep the agreement.
Also, ISK is not power. It's not like MD united could blow ten trillions and gain control of a meangingful portion of 0.0. In another game, you call someone in the best avaiable gear (not righfully earned) going around PVPing a cheater. in EVE, you call someone going around in Officier gear and Vindicator, doing small-scale pvp.. a pinata. With a giant "shoot me for goodies" painted on it.
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Kohiko Sun
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Nope, spending real money for fake money is pointless.
Aranakas wrote:I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk and want to keep it. Psst! Paying a subscription is spending real money to make fake money. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
181
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Slime Slurper wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Slime Slurper wrote:Aranakas wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Somebody can't afford his own plex. I pay for my account like a good subscriber because I work for my isk and want to keep it. Preach it! If I was to buy PLEX, I would feel I was cheating my toon. How would you feel you are cheating your toon? My toon worked hard for his Isk. To just take it away is wrong for the poor dude. He'd probably sue me for racism or something.
And a plex is simply another commodity for some people. As I said, some people out there may live on a pretty tight budget in RL, but suppose they do quite well at the market games. Would they really miss the 485 mil. Most people have already summarized that this can be earn in 20 hours or less which is only a half a work week by normal standards. This means that the rest of the months expenses go straight to the player. You obviously do not have a need to by a plex, but suppose you received several bills, say maybe to a medical issue, that would cause you to give up some luxuries. Would you simply give up the game then even though you still the option to play it? |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
229
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote: Even worse than ignorance is when people make up convoluted, ad-hoc definitions of things to fit their arguments.
Whether you by the item directly from CCP or indirectly via the middleman of a PLEX, it is still paying real money for an in-game advantage. Therefore, it is P2W.
End of story.
Feel free to argue little boy - mere words will not spare you from being wrong and dumb.
Want to talk about worse? It's even worse that there are people who think that others who sell plex are paying to win.
There is no WIN in EVE. You don't see anywhere "GAME OVER".
Anything available in game is just as available to the one farming his ISk as for the one selling plex. Just that the one selling plex makes his life a tad easier ingame than those willing to grind or struggle to get onwards.
People like you throwing up tantrums about how unfair it is and howmuch P2W it is come over as little jealous kids because "whaaawhaaa, my neighbour has the red tricycle and I only this old skateboard"
You chose to not sell plex, fine. It is in the end YOUR choice to not do so. Don't try to justify your personal choice by attacking other people's legal choice in the game to make Isk. In the end it makes you sound petty and cheap. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1159
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
PLEX is not pay to win.
It's pay to skip working for the ISK to buy that titan. It's pay to buy a titan pilot to fly it. It's pay to fill your wallet while doing nothing. It's pay in lieu of grind.
I guess we're all fine with that except me.
Mr Epeen Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5917
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Even worse than ignorance is when people make up convoluted, ad-hoc definitions of things to fit their arguments.
Whether you by the item directly from CCP or indirectly via the middleman of a PLEX, it is still paying real money for an in-game advantage. Therefore, it is P2W. Yeah, no. That's not P2W for the simple reason that you're not buying any "win" GÇö you're trading the exact same things that everyone else already have. That's, at best, RMT or just plain old MT (but not really, since you're not converting money to items).
So yes, it's pretty stupid when people make up their own ad-hoc definitions of things. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
128
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Plex isn't pay to win. A Plex bought Adaddon, a mission grind Abaddon both die just as easy. Plex is pay to lose. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp
78
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Vanir Tsero wrote:You clearly don't understand what "Pay to Win" actually is.
Pay To Win is where you pay real money for ships that are not obtainable in game with Isk.
For Example:
If CCP Sold a Tech 4 Battlecruiser for $25.00 That is considered Pay to Win. If CCP Sold Tech 3 Ammo for $15.00 for a count of 5,000 That is considered Pay To Win.
If CCP Sold an In-Game item for $20.00 that can be traded in game for in-game currency... That is NOT Pay To Win. Why? Because it gives noone an advantage. The 600,000,000 ISK I got from selling the Plex on the market, 7,000 other players just made by running Incursions for a few hours.
Your ignorance bothers me for some reason. :( Even worse than ignorance is when people make up convoluted, ad-hoc definitions of things to fit their arguments. Whether you by the item directly from CCP or indirectly via the middleman of a PLEX, it is still paying real money for an in-game advantage. Therefore, it is P2W. End of story. Feel free to argue little boy - mere words will not spare you from being wrong and dumb.
Yoiu're an idiot and wrong,
Roses are red. Bacon is also red. Poems are hard. Bacon. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
70
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
And I thought I started bad threads. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
161
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Graic Gabtar wrote:And I thought I started bad threads.
Your bad threads are still just as bad as somebody who pays to have a bad thread made. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Dalmont Delantee
The Black Legionnares BLACK-MARK
27
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Killer Gandry wrote:Aranakas wrote:Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go! You could get a job and benefit from selling at times aswel. Nope, spending real money for fake money is pointless. Also unfair to those playing the game.
ROFL someone doesn't realise that the isk that you get from selling a plex is money from someone who's worked for it....you are just swapping that item for isk.
Bit like getting an officer item and selling it *sighs*
But then people don't actually care about how things work, they just get stupid. |
Prince Kobol
509
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Plex never has been, and currently is not in anyway P2W.
You purchase 10 Plex and sell them all in game.
You now have say 5bil isk.
So what?
What kind of advantage does give you over other players?
Can you get some special ship that no other player who hasn't purchase plex can get?
Do you get access to agents that somebody who hasn't purchased a plex can get?
The only difference between you and somebody who has not purchase plex is that they are the price of those plex better of financially in rl.
P2W is when by spending rl money you are able to acquire an item, usually better, then what other players are able to get in game.
So for a quick example..
In game item..
Sword of Doom - Gives 250 ICPR, 250 Morale, +10% Melee Damage
P2W item only available in a store for $25
Sword of Ultimate Pwnage - Gives 500 ICPR, 500 Morale, +20% Melee Damage, +10% Block Defence, +10% on all resists.
That is P2W...
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Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:Even worse than ignorance is when people make up convoluted, ad-hoc definitions of things to fit their arguments.
Whether you by the item directly from CCP or indirectly via the middleman of a PLEX, it is still paying real money for an in-game advantage. Therefore, it is P2W. Yeah, no. That's not P2W for the simple reason that you're not buying any "win" GÇö you're trading the exact same things that everyone else already have. That's, at best, RMT or just plain old MT (but not really, since you're not converting money to items). So yes, it's pretty stupid when people make up their own ad-hoc definitions of things.
Except there's just one problem: you're wrong.
The first argument was: "It's not P2W because you don't actually buy the items themselves." This was debunked by explaining how you are - you're just using a middleman. Adding layers of complexity to the transaction does not change the fact that it's P2W.
Now the argument is: "It's not P2W because you can only buy items available to everyone else in the game." But... that's exactly what P2W is. Buying items in the game with real life money. Whether those items are available to other players or not has no bearing on what P2W is; this is just another "made up definition". And actually in most games that offer P2W options ("item shops") you'll notice that the items in the shop are the very same items that can be gained via gameplay by everyone else. P2W offers a shortcut; instead of working for what you have in the game, you just pay for it. Hence, "pay to win".
Here's a good way to determine if something is pay to win. Ask yourself "By spending this (real life) money on the game, will I gain an advantage over a player who didn't spend (real life) money on the game in this manner?" If the answer is "yes", then you've payed to win.
It's cute how people who don't know anything about the gaming industry think they have the authority to come into a discussion and make definitions up about it, though. So yeah, keep talking out your ass.
:) |
Steel Wraith
5
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
I submit to you the following:
Pay to Win: - Handing the developers $$ and receiving spawned gold/isk/whatever.
Pay for Plex: - Some guy grinds missions/incrusions/whatever for isk. - You hand the developers $$ and receive plex. - Some guy passes grinded isk to you and receives plex. - Some guy spends plex for another month of play, thus keeping his own $$ in his pocket.
Net ISK gains: None. Or a small -isk to tax. Net $$ gains: None.
Where is the Pay to Win? It's still play to win, it's just that some other player is doing the playing.
All it does is shift who pays the subscription, and encourage people to open more accounts.
Edit: Also lolMonocles |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
183
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Posted - 2012.04.04 20:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
i.e. We're outsourcing |
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