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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2050
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Posted - 2012.04.03 17:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Buying and selling ISK is bad m-¦kay. And CCP Sreegs is here to tell you what Team Security is doing about it.
Read the blog here and let us know if you have feedback or questions for us. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2050
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Posted - 2012.04.03 17:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Learath wrote:a href="http://%20http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG13u9KKtzE&list=PLDDA989F65CD6E98A&index=9&feature=plpp_video"
Best html EVAR!
It's a security thing. I think Sreegs is paranoid that someone might actually find his video if the URL actually leads to it. But I fixed it in any case :) CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
587
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Posted - 2012.04.03 17:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iniquita wrote:I support this product and/or service.
Though I know that some people are willing just to biomass the character who got the negative wallet and none of their other characters or assets (whom obviously benefited from this illicit activity) remain untouched. Hopefully in the future you will look more closely at people who purchase rmt'd isk because it seems all you need to be willing to do is biomass the character who took the initial wallet it and the person can keep any ill gotten assets they have purchased.
Im not going to name specifics here but I know of at least one person who has been extremely unrepentant. His wallet got hit pretty hard but he had purchased made contract purchases and was able to retain his assets. Another person simply biomassed the character with a negative wallet and plans to purchase a new character from the bazaar.
It seems a bit of an oversight that people can simply purchase isk, buy assets and pass on assets via contracts to alts to avoid the impact of what you are trying to do. Or simply biomass characters with a negative wallet and go on to purchase new characters. Maybe you should consider adding a fee to biomassing or something.
We're trying not to be too elaborate right now but we've already had situations where we've just gone ahead and moved the negative balance to a main. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
587
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Posted - 2012.04.03 17:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:ahuj9 also: Quote:Around 105 accounts with direct ties to RMT (Real Money Trade) operations banned permanently Can you tell how many players were thought to be behind these 105 accounts? ie are we talking about shutting down 105 different players who were each using 1 account for RMT, or a handful of insane multiboxers, or what?
It was a mixed bag really. I can't really estimate that right this second. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
587
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Posted - 2012.04.03 17:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Sreegs: Can you address the concern - nay, the undeniable fact - that reporting your foes in-game, whether or not they're actually engaging in any sort of RMT, is going to become a regular tactic nowadays, all the moreso that you're offering an incentive for doing so? Will there be punitive action taken against players who spam lots of reports, especially if investigation into those reports keeps coming up negative?
My concern here is that you're going to create a whole lot of unnecessary workload for yourself investigating all kinds of false reports, which could serve to reduce your effectiveness at dealing with actual RMTers.
I won't have the team's time wasted so you can take whatever you will from that. :)
To be honest with you this is a whole lot more advanced than I think a lot of people comprehend and this really isn't feasible. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
587
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Posted - 2012.04.03 17:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Fantastic job guys - I hope you really hammer the hell out of them. :) Quote: Between 1-3 trillion ISK in assets siezed permanently Around 500 billion ISK in RMT transactions reversed
I see that PL was trolling over losing 15T ISK. This was expected. -Liang Yeah thanks for headshotting the troll sreegs :[
You got a weekend's mileage out of it ok |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
593
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Palovana wrote:First! Quote:Update: Since this blog was written this afternoon we've taken out another 365 account bot/rmt ring. No estimate of assets yet. Another big score. Quote:automated botting detection routines Bots hunting bots. IT'S THE FUTURE! Quote:All actions will be retroactive to at LEAST February. Any particular reason you're using February as a cutoff? I guess activity logs can only be kept so long. Not being a botter I'd say go back to 2003 with this.
We can go back further but we're leaving wiggle room depending on the offense. The farther back we go the more manual labor is involved which means we spend more time manually sifting through things which leaves our net less wide than we want it to be. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
593
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:How does one use the Plex For Sniches program, I would like to pay for my accounts through reporting ice mining bots.
I don't really use it for bots as we tend to get flooded with information and there's a reporting feature for that. For today we're limiting it to major items such as privatized RMT rings or specific technologies. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
597
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:Red Alliance former leader talks directly in TS recording about his own RMT actions. Few months later - nothing happens. I suppose right now place in large alliance leadership is the safest one for RMT because there is "no evidence" for ban. How many characters with director roles in large alliances were banned in recent ban wave?
We are not a part of your metagame and this has nothing to do with who does or doesn't like who or what alliance they're in. We deal with what we have evidence of not whatever site on the internet may make allegations.
We don't look at what alliances they're part of or who they are in whatever alliance. We follow the activity. If the activity leads to an alliance then we'll action on an alliance. As it stands this is something fairly new we're working with and while we've had some people with roles tagged that's not a number I anticipate us reporting on as to be frank it's meaningless when the topic is "RMT" and is really only useful when the topic is "I think alliance x is evil". Today we took out at least 3 corporations as an example.
We're going to do this in a way that makes sense from an RMT perspective not based on whomever the metagame flavor of the month for accusations is. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
597
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Skye Aurorae wrote: I mean I have ads popup alongside my youtube tutorial videos that occasionally advertise the sale of Isk and items in Eve, I have no control over these ads Seem to remember reading something a while back about the way youtube handles IP claims, ie someone claiming eve vids etc places adds on others vids where the one claiming IP rights gets the advertising revenue, also seems a good way for RMT crowd gaining free aditional money for the adds, might be worth either yourself seeing about disputing the ownership of the vids on youtube or better CCP games doing so. atm in middle of something in eve, when i can i'll see about tracking down the news article about this and post a link on this thread. Found it. http://torrentfreak.com/youtubes-content-id-piracy-filter-wreaks-havoc-110908/
You're welcome to send some examples of these ads to [email protected]. We haven't yet done much about it but it's been on the radar. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
597
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Allataria wrote:CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. The amount of time you have to devote to turn any profit especially ratting and mining is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if bitters are completely removed before any changes or fixes are put into place to resolve this issue the market willsuffer. Prices will soar an the output ofitems and ships will decrease. I doubt many people realise just how much the current mlarket is dependent on botters especiallythe miners. Let me say though I am not condoning or supporting them but most of the boys are a result of the game being just so dull and repetitive in the ways we make our isk. Incursions however are a good contrast as they are fun and enjoyable in how we make our money. But the problem still is that's its hard and boring to make isk especially in low and null sec. If we could find new ways to get people to actively engage the game to make isk and make it time effective we could seriously reduce the amount of botters in the game. Banning bots wont silver the problem as to why there are bots. It will just cause further issues down the road. Ccp needs to look at the initial reasons why people not and improve resolve and enhance the ways we make our isk in an effective and timely manner.
By this measuring stick every single MMO ever has been boring. I hear the argument and I'd love to see some data which proves that altering gameplay to meet whatever standard the rather nebulous term "fun" applies to in any way mitigates RMT. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
601
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:CCP Sreegs is indeed my favorite developer. GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ
Could you provide information on the PLEX for Snitches program? I don't believe I caught it the first time around. Is it some kind of automatic thing whenever any report is made, or does it have to go through specific channels?
At the moment if you provide us with information at [email protected] which leads to us discovering something of value we can action against we will give a reward which matches the value of the data. We don't use this for individual botters for instance but detailed information about an RMT ring might qualify. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
601
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rendiff wrote:Quote:Don't do business with people you know to be involved in RMT. Don't buy accounts, items, PLEX or ISK illegally. THERE YOU HAVE IT! The ONLY legal seller of PLEX is CCP. Does that include places like shatteredcrystal.com?
They don't sell plex. :) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
601
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:We are not a part of your metagame and this has nothing to do with who does or doesn't like who or what alliance they're in. We deal with what we have evidence of not whatever site on the internet may make allegations. I dont care about RA or metagaming. I only care because one known member directly said in public - "I sold ISK from alliance wallet to pay my debt for my car". There is no evidence for CCP, but there enough evidence for rest of the community, including RA members. We see that ISK seller still play this game and nothing happens.That's pretty much describes the whole anti-RMT system.
No that describes your perspective based on something you feel you've observed. I don't get to deal in perspectives of observation I deal with actual activity. If you have evidence of wrongdoing email it to me at [email protected] and if something's really going on I'll handle it. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
617
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Remulon McNab wrote:I am curious if you guys (CCP) could make a dynamic counter thing that shows information on how many bans have been served and how much isk has been sinked. so we're able to follow this info "semi-realtime" at the other hand Sreegs well done (with the anti-RMT+BOT) and we definately sleep better at night. (Did you get Roc Wieler as personal coach )
Not sure we'd be too comfortable with something automated but we will be giving more detailed numbers.
I'm going to the gym with GM Moxie, CCP Soundwave and CCP Mindstar. We're doing something called the Ultimate Anime Workout and Soundwave guarantees it's going to make me go supersaiyan. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
617
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rivur'Tam wrote:whats this grass for plex thing if you know someone who is doing rmt u report than and get a plex ???
It's a bit more complicated than that but if it leads to something big then yes. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
617
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zirise wrote:I don't know what the PLEX for Snitches entails, but here's what comes to mind:
1. Buy ISK from some chinese site, have it sent to someone you don't like. 2. 'Snitch' on him. 3. Get a cheap PLEX and your enemy temp banned.
Hopefully you guys have thought of this.
I'm not an idiot. (I hope) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
622
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Posted - 2012.04.03 18:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Allataria wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Allataria wrote:CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. The amount of time you have to devote to turn any profit especially ratting and mining is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if bitters are completely removed before any changes or fixes are put into place to resolve this issue the market willsuffer. Prices will soar an the output ofitems and ships will decrease. I doubt many people realise just how much the current mlarket is dependent on botters especiallythe miners. Let me say though I am not condoning or supporting them but most of the boys are a result of the game being just so dull and repetitive in the ways we make our isk. Incursions however are a good contrast as they are fun and enjoyable in how we make our money. But the problem still is that's its hard and boring to make isk especially in low and null sec. If we could find new ways to get people to actively engage the game to make isk and make it time effective we could seriously reduce the amount of botters in the game. Banning bots wont silver the problem as to why there are bots. It will just cause further issues down the road. Ccp needs to look at the initial reasons why people not and improve resolve and enhance the ways we make our isk in an effective and timely manner. By this measuring stick every single MMO ever has been boring. I hear the argument and I'd love to see some data which proves that altering gameplay to meet whatever standard the rather nebulous term "fun" applies to in any way mitigates RMT. This was an argument to reduce botting not RMT. Your statement seems that you still don't understand the reasoning most people use to support why they not. All I see is we aren't willing to look at new ways to improve our game and help our players we just want a quick solution regardless of the implications that it creates. When I mean fun I mean anything other then warp to belt kill these rats. Warp to next belt. Rinse repeat. Missed are far enjoyable then ratting or running anomalies. Null sec and all space needs more and engaging ways to make isk. Sitting in a belt with a miner or ratting ship for six hours a day is not fun way to make island compared to missions in high sec. Your statement is highly disturbing for those of us who want the game to improve itself and that CCP is listening to the entire playerbase not just a minority. More research could have been done in understanding why people bot and ask those who do why they do it so the game can be improve d for the better and enjoyment for all instead of you will be banned and we don't care about trying to improve the game. It will be interesting to see how the market will react to all these accounts being banned when so much of the.economy depends on their output. My guess is negatively. Might be a good time to start buying minerals
I'm not in game design. This is the catching badguys department. This refrain has been mentioned time and time again and it's game designs problem. I don't really care why people break very easy to follow rules I just make sure they don't keep doing it. Hopefully that clarifies my response a bit. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
633
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Larofeticus wrote:As a computer scientist, the idea of a graph and networking problem like this makes my pants tight.
Mmmmm... characters are nodes... digraph with isk transfer amounts as weights, offset by transfered item values...
then you start digging out the patterns. collapse the node paths involving trial accounts... check for sinks, faucets and super connectors... screen out patterns for white listed activity like supercap sales or alliance/corp reimbursments
man it's just such a cool problem from a technical perspective.
It's just so easy to make trial accounts to shuffle things around though. In the short term you want to nail as many vault nodes as possible, but in the long term you have to get the faucet characters because those require the most invested time to set up.
We have and will continue to discuss changes to trials but our approach has always been to try and design a game that is engaging for people rather than one that's hard for botters if that makes sense. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
638
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:I have a few questions:
1) I'd like to see an answer to the earlier question about how far down the chain this goes. Ex: A buys ISK and buys a ship from B, does B get punished/ship transaction reversed/etc?
2) How do you determine "known RMTers"? For example, your comment about making loans to "known RMTers". How do you decide whether a person doing business with the RMTer was aware of their illegal activity or just a legitimate player? Am I at risk of getting banned because I give a loan to someone I thought was a legitimate business opportunity, and it turns out they're a RMTer?
3) How exactly are you planning to deal with the effects of things like removing supercapitals on innocent players? For example, A buys a titan with cash, contributes it to the alliance, and player B actually flies it. Does B lose their titan? If A has a freighter full of assets owned by his corp-mates when he is banned, can those players get their assets back? Are you going to delete RMTed sov-claiming structures, and, if so, how are you going to deal with the fact that a lot of innocent players have just experienced a massive effect on their game?
1) Right now we haven't had to go any farther than the consumer ie the guy who made the purchase. If things change we will as well.
2) If I was going to loan someone money I'd make sure I knew who they were etc. In the cases this has popped up the person in question was a well known RMTer. There's no magic formula for this.
3) In RMT nobody is innocent. In your scenario I can't figure out what player B actually lost? They spent nothing and therefore are no worse off than they were before? We'll deal with this on a case by case basis but ultimately if there's an alliance run by RMT then I will end that alliance. It's unfortunate that some people may be negatively impacted by that but their leaders were cheating and we're not going to allow people to cheat. I'll also note that your question is hypothetical and I can't truly answer that until I've seen that scenario. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
638
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Allataria wrote:Dingurxul wrote:Allataria wrote:CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. The amount of time you have to devote to turn any profit especially ratting and mining is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if bitters are completely removed before any changes or fixes are put into place to resolve this issue the market willsuffer. Prices will soar an the output ofitems and ships will decrease. I doubt many people realise just how much the current mlarket is dependent on botters especiallythe miners. Let me say though I am not condoning or supporting them but most of the boys are a result of the game being just so dull and repetitive in the ways we make our isk. Incursions however are a good contrast as they are fun and enjoyable in how we make our money. But the problem still is that's its hard and boring to make isk especially in low and null sec. If we could find new ways to get people to actively engage the game to make isk and make it time effective we could seriously reduce the amount of botters in the game. Banning bots wont silver the problem as to why there are bots. It will just cause further issues down the road. Ccp needs to look at the initial reasons why people not and improve resolve and enhance the ways we make our isk in an effective and timely manner. That is like saying I don't want to work in RL to pay for the things I need/want. We as a society give value to money because it is the direct result of producing or doing something that people value. To remove value from ISK (making it easy to get and thus meaningless) removes all value to things related to it. If the ship that you pewpew and destroy takes no effort to replace, your killing of that ship is meaningless because it has no real value. This in turn removes any value to PVP combat, the thing in which IGÇÖm sure you want to be able to do more of by GÇ£making ISK easierGÇ¥ to get. All I see here is I'm a pubbie who likes to mission customer the how I play. Try ratting in null sec for 6 hours a day and tell me its more fun and productive then missions. Oh that's right its not. CCP is failing to look at reasons and causes to hitting and is lazy going for the easy fix. Long time players have tried in vain to express the shortcomings of the game but it has fallen on deaf ears time and time again. Maybe when these bots get banned and loads of long timers stop subbing and the in game market falls apart and CCP starts to.lose.money they will see the larger picture.
Now you're either speculating or ignoring what I said. I said game design deals with those issues and we've discussed this in the past. This isn't a fresh or new idea anywhere. I'm sorry if you feel there's a legitimate reason for botting but there isn't and that's basically that. Not liking a game doesn't entitle you to cheat. Ever. At all. Enough with the moral equivalency please. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
642
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Larofeticus wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:We have and will continue to discuss changes to trials but our approach has always been to try and design a game that is engaging for people rather than one that's hard for botters if that makes sense. Why must you focus on the least interesting part of my post? You guys must be up to your armpits in network and graph theory papers and instead you focus on the trial accounts which are almost trivial to abstract right out of the model. Isk faucet character(s) -> vault character(s) -> RMT customer butte(s) Unless there is some way for the trial accounts to make RMT magnitude amounts of isk, then they can only be an intermetdiate step between faucet and butte.
We don't discuss sources or methods so I commented on the part of the post that I could. You are correct that it is indeed an interesting problem which is why we were super excited to be able to work on it. Also I get to yell at Stillman all day. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
642
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Clolo wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned, but have you thought of running a "police auction" with all the confiscated assets?
It's been theorized but I don't think we'd use it in this application because in most cases the assets simply shouldn't exist so we're more focused on fixing the glitch in the economy by removing them. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
642
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Days Mahyisti wrote:I don't wanna be the Snitch here, but I think this guy named RANdom 01 is using a bot. I've seen him botting or what I suspect as botting always around 1 am to maybe 5 am. Me and my Corp. have seen him multiple times during Mining Operations (I was using my other Character, not this one) I leave it up to you, CCP, to decided what to do with him. Botting is not cool and unfair for the rest of us. Mei Ling Cobon-Han is my Main
PLEX are only for snitches. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:good work but why did it take so long to have a team dedicated to this?
You'd have to ask management that question. This falls under the purview of the Sr. Producer so you have CCP Unifex to thank. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lemming Alpha1dash1 wrote:HOT DAMNurban dictionary: an exclamation of astonishment or approval Quote: On a personal note, CCP Soundwave's cosplay-fit 6pack abs have inspired me to purchase a gym membership so all of you who have expressed heartfelt concern about my physical health may now sleep easier! May I punch the abs to see how tough they are next time at fanfest ? CCP Security = Tough Guys
You may only punch me in game |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
corestwo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:[2) If I was going to loan someone money I'd make sure I knew who they were etc. In the cases this has popped up the person in question was a well known RMTer. There's no magic formula for this. And what about less brazen RMTers? Should we just be taking someone's word that the isk they're loaning me (or vice versa) or the modules they're selling me or what have you aren't dirty? Perhaps we're being overly hysterical here but this comment is treading awfully close to the "It's YOUR job to police OUR game" ground, and it has rather significant implications for a lot of ingame activity.
I don't believe it has significant implications for a lot of ingame activity. When I or you run into a problem with it let us know but in the meantime just assume you can Remain Calm. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
SlayerOfArgus wrote:Days Mahyisti wrote:I don't wanna be the Snitch here, but I think this guy named RANdom 01 is using a bot. I've seen him botting or what I suspect as botting always around 1 am to maybe 5 am. Me and my Corp. have seen him multiple times during Mining Operations (I was using my other Character, not this one) I leave it up to you, CCP, to decided what to do with him. Botting is not cool and unfair for the rest of us. Mei Ling Cobon-Han is my Main If you haven't filed a petition yet, do so.
Actually just use the report bot feature in the client. It's more streamlined. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
658
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jim Luc wrote:One thing you mentioned, that CCP is the ONLY legal seller of PLEX. I think this should be clarified, as there are many authorized sellers of Game Time Codes, that can be converted to PLEX. Or am I confused on this issue??
I was only referring to PLEX. I need to do more research into GTCs so what I say is buy PLEX. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
664
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Posted - 2012.04.03 19:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:Hi Sreegs,
It has been suggested I ask this here rather than in the thread I started in EVE GeneralDiscussion:-
With CCP now, effectively, declaring war on RMT and botting are you able to say what CCP's policy is regarding people who are seen to regularly cheat?
To elaborate, if you see the same people botting/RMTing and having their accounts banned only to start up new accounts to carry on their activities do CCP have any policy for banning people from the game?
I appreciate you may not be able to give an answer but I am curious as to whether you have a policy like this in place as an ultimate deterrent for cheaters.
PAN
PS, I am assuming that it's an EULA violation to give false/misleading personal information when setting up an account.
I mentioned the need to improve the ID/AUTH system in my Fanfest presentation and I think this partially speaks to that. We're also going to have to add some layers into what we're doing, but you are correct that this should be a consideration. :) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
682
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
ThatSourDiesel wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The ONLY legal seller of PLEX is CCP. This was in the blog. Does this mean that other online retailers for PLEX, like Shattered Crystal and Battleclinic, are ILLEGAL sellers? I didn't think they were, but your post confuses me. Can anyone clarify this for me please? Thanks!!
They don't sell plex. I'd clarify but to be honest I know very little about those relationships. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
685
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yaba Yaba wrote:Question, as per this topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=91174tl;dr: can you ransom botters (send a mail and hope they read it after you blow them up) under the premise that you won't report them or bother them again (but of course do both those things). Basically, scamming them for ISK on false premise (legal in EVE), but the ISK is tainted (illegal and might get taken away)
I'll have to get back to you on that. I believe it would be fine but it's a hypothetical. Bots get dinged for isk generated and we're not looking at passing that on unless it's going bad places. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
691
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dubaschu wrote:CCP Guard wrote:Buying and selling ISK is bad m-¦kay. And CCP Sreegs is here to tell you what Team Security is doing about it. Read the blog here and let us know if you have feedback or questions for us. This is excellent news indeed! Hit them hard! CCP, Me and another player have spotted a corp that all run around in CNR's that are Bot Mining, Do we report each player or the corp? Partition? If anyone war dec's this corp they then all jump to new corps with all there sexy CNR's. Dubaschu
If it's a whole corp just sent me an email to [email protected]. You can also use the report bot function in game. Believe it or not it does do ~something~ |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
691
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:1) Right now we haven't had to go any farther than the consumer ie the guy who made the purchase. If things change we will as well. So, basically, you have been given carte-blanche to shut down the game by banning every single account producing anything for market if you deem necessary. It's not like we can choose who to sell to on the eve market. No offense, but I think I'll just switch my production chars from 12 month subscriptions to a monthly / as needed basis. Having 250 SP in industry is starting to feel like a security feature.
I'm pretty sure you're going a bit overboard here. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
696
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Panties and Stockings wrote:What's going to happen to the people who got caught in the crossfire?
They've been repaired as they've been discovered but I will reiterate something I said in the blog which is that nobody truely innocent has thus far been determined to have been caught in this crossfire...
We've had people do illegal things that cause the system to mislabel them a bit because... what they did was indeed illegal. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
696
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lacco wrote:Quote:While there were reports of false positives related to this event, thus far every single valid "false" positive we've investigated was tagged because they had actually done something wrong, in most cases purchasing an account illegally or enabling RMT sellers via providing them with "loans". This is completely unacceptable behavior and in each instance thus far the purchased accounts were left closed and the loaned isk remained frozen. I'm sad to see CCP makes claim of this sort. Just roughly three weeks ago GM's banned characters amarri4 and Norlana (who are both friends of mine) who received a plex free of charge at Jita. Supposedly these characters were tagged as result and were immidiately banned after the incident. How ever, what happened next was that amarri4's petitions were answered and he was unbanned. Norlana remains banned, and his petitions remain unanswered, nor does he have received email to clarify what is the current status of his account. This kind of activity where CCP blindfold hunts for RMT will lead to a disaster and many of those who are innocent will get banned. As a result I'm concidering closing all my accounts and start looking for another game if this problem remains unsolved for longer period of time.
I'm not a GM and can't speak for what they do. You should take this up with them as it has nothing to do with this thread or the work of my team. What I said stands and is 100% accurate. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
701
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:RE: "While there were reports of false positives related to this event, thus far every single valid "false" positive we've investigated was tagged because they had actually done something wrong, in most cases purchasing an account illegally or enabling RMT sellers via providing them with "loans"." -team security - now with 100% more anti-rmt dev blog.
i heard early on that people who did reimbursements for alliances ( ie: u lose a ship in pvp, post the kill mail and the alliance pays you for that ship) recieved punishement as well. can you confirm this? if so that would be a huge problem. its not our job to figure out who trades illegallly; its urs ccp
I won't comment on individual cases except to point to my earlier statement and attest to its accuracy. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:TOO MUCH TEXT TO QUOTE
1) I'm not dealing in hypotheticals. I'm also not hamstringing myself. So no comment. 2) I've already explained this. In most cases thus far people knew. I already told you to vet the people you lend isk to. The last time I checked making loans wasn't something we insure. If you lose your loan you can't tell a GM to give it back. Your other risk is that they're crooked. I don't see why this is an issue to be frank with you. 3) Not doing hypotheticals.
You may disagree but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not going to deal in hypotheticals. That's my answer and the only one I'm going to give. None of these scenarios have happened and to be honest I don't find it a very productive use of my time to guess what could happen if maybe something might occur at some perhaps somewhat random chance based on some hidden algorithm whenever.
We will deal with situations as they arise and each one will be unique. That's the nature of this business. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
MissGemini wrote:@CCP Screegs - I have info I would like to convey in an anon fashion, how should I do this?
[email protected] I'm the only one who sees it |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lacco wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Lacco wrote:Quote:While there were reports of false positives related to this event, thus far every single valid "false" positive we've investigated was tagged because they had actually done something wrong, in most cases purchasing an account illegally or enabling RMT sellers via providing them with "loans". This is completely unacceptable behavior and in each instance thus far the purchased accounts were left closed and the loaned isk remained frozen. I'm sad to see CCP makes claim of this sort. Just roughly three weeks ago GM's banned characters amarri4 and Norlana (who are both friends of mine) who received a plex free of charge at Jita. Supposedly these characters were tagged as result and were immidiately banned after the incident. How ever, what happened next was that amarri4's petitions were answered and he was unbanned. Norlana remains banned, and his petitions remain unanswered, nor does he have received email to clarify what is the current status of his account. This kind of activity where CCP blindfold hunts for RMT will lead to a disaster and many of those who are innocent will get banned. As a result I'm concidering closing all my accounts and start looking for another game if this problem remains unsolved for longer period of time. I'm not a GM and can't speak for what they do. You should take this up with them as it has nothing to do with this thread or the work of my team. What I said stands and is 100% accurate. The chain of petitions have been cooking for three weeks now and there is no progress. The quality of customer support from CCP is abysmal. What I think this kind of public image you give out of banning your customers is going to cost CCP valuable long term customers. Our whole community is upset for this bullshit.
I understand that and I'm informing you that this isn't the customer service thread. Take it up with them please. Neither I nor anyone else can do a single thing for you in this thread. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:RE: "While there were reports of false positives related to this event, thus far every single valid "false" positive we've investigated was tagged because they had actually done something wrong, in most cases purchasing an account illegally or enabling RMT sellers via providing them with "loans"." -team security - now with 100% more anti-rmt dev blog.
i heard early on that people who did reimbursements for alliances ( ie: u lose a ship in pvp, post the kill mail and the alliance pays you for that ship) recieved punishement as well. can you confirm this? if so that would be a huge problem. its not our job to figure out who trades illegallly; its urs ccp I won't comment on individual cases except to point to my earlier statement and attest to its accuracy. i didn't ask for an individual cases...dev blog said "loan money" ...if some1 is doing reimbursements out of corp wallet to an effected account would that cause issues?
This is getting a bit silly. I'm not going to get pigeonholed into telling you that reimbursements are ok and have people claim every time they get caught funding an isk selling operation that they're doing "reimbursements".
It's pretty simple. If you're involved in selling isk then yes you will be seen as being involved in selling isk. If something happens to you petition it. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lacco wrote:Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:Lacco wrote:
What I think this kind of public image you give out of banning your customers is going to cost CCP valuable long term customers. Our whole community is upset for this bullshit.
Really? Want to read this thread and see how few people are whinging like you compared to people like myself who are happy that something is finally being done about the serial cheaters who spoil this game? PAN I'm talking about the community whose member has been banned for receiving a plex in Jita. I'm all up for fighting against RMT botters etc. but the fact that there are mistakes done by people who bann the **** out of players is concidered to be inexistent.
I'm not sure I can make it any clearer for you buddy this isn't the right thread for you to post in so stop. You're not talking about my team. We didn't ban anyone three weeks ago. File a petition and deal with the GMs who actually did this. Please stop sidetracking my thread. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I am concerned about the "enabling RMT sellers via providing them with 'loans' thing.
I make hundreds of millions a month and more by loaning to people, how do I know they are not RMTers?
Those who are not stupid are not going to show as one.
One year ago I held collateral for a guy who in turn had stuff given by a RMTer. This has caused me incredibly absurd issues for weeks to no end and all what CCP did to me when I petitioned, was a grand STFU - our logs show nothing.
Are we going to see people like Chribba (he does my same "EvE job") being banned and purple letter flagged because they unknowingly dealt with somebody related to RMT?
Second thing, who is going to be so stupid to mine (and ice mining more so) even now that it's supposed to become profitable?
It's a dull mechanic that is completely identical to botting even when done legitimately. It'll be just too risky, there's no way to detect a bot vs a real miner sitting for 18 minutes doing nothing, then unloading, warping back to the same bookmark and mining again.
Or there might be ways to discern them but CCP does not know them, as I have seen banned people who I chatted all the time with while they were mining, while in the same system and sitting next to each other.
As I posted many times, it's very cool you finally started hitting botters, RMTers and cheaters but there ARE false positives (which you dismissed) and they have no way whatsoever to prove they were not cheating.
Edit: and no the "we are not the customer service department" is not a valid excuse. You HAVE to have functional backend to sustain your bannings else we'll just get an even worse customer service than we have now, where petitions can sit there for weeks.
You're wrong. We can move on. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:Nice one...
Just remember, some of us do LOAN isk out to others, and I have given out bazillions out in the past. I can see false positives come about with this and GM's refusing to talk to you because you have had that tag applied. I know my account has had more than one tag applied (AND REMOVED) but as of yet I dont think RMT or Botting was one of them. Grimmi refuses to talk to me these days so god knows if he removed it all.
The main problem is that CCP doesnt make it easy enough for people wishing to take part in RMT to know they can do it with TimeCodes. I seen some users one day talking about buying isk (was a few years ago) and they were complaining about how much it would cost and it was more expensive than time codes!... When I suggesed it to them they didnt know how it worked. In all fairness it was a long while ago and CCP hadnt been selling isk for that long.
Open up your doors to people wanting to buy isk and explain to them how to do it. The buyers are the ones who enable these markets to continue.
In the past when escrow was around it was easy to spot isk sellers. These days it's not as transparent. I think some guys still do it via contracts by selling gear at a hugely overpriced rate, or selling it at a huge undervalued rate (so the person buying can then profit on the trade). You will probably never stamp it out, but making the users who want to buy isk more arware of the TimeCode is the best solution.
With this blog post we ran an in game splash ad to help direct people here so they know how to buy plex. There are other discussions on the table. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
705
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:re:Vaerah Vahrokha
exactly my point. i'm sorry ccp, i'm all for catching those cheaters but you need to be more clear. this game means a great deal to some of us...many of us...because of the time we spend. we can't effectively play the game if we don't know the rules. effectively you'd shut a lot of useful people out of the game with your knee jerk reaction.
When this happens is the time I'd recommend getting mad about it. In all seriousness I can't defend a position that hasn't occurred. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
707
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: 2) I've already explained this. In most cases thus far people knew. I already told you to vet the people you lend isk to. The last time I checked making loans wasn't something we insure. If you lose your loan you can't tell a GM to give it back. Your other risk is that they're crooked. I don't see why this is an issue to be frank with you.
because you as the one who gives the loan are looking like an isk seller on ethe other party comes under scrutiny which means you do not only stand to lose your money but also your eve account
When this happens we'll talk. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
707
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 20:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegs!!!!! Great job! Also great job to those helping you.
CCP Stillman's the main man on this project. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
709
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jim Luc wrote:By the way, is there any way we can put an end to the endless "Player Transfer" phishing spam? I've been getting lots of it and forward each to [email protected] - usually it all goes to the trash anyways. I generally don't even click any links in an Eve-related email, even if it's from CCP. They're offering free time but I won't take their survey simply because I don't trust any emails from ccp or related anymore. Is there a way we can determine if an email link is authentic, and each email that's sent from CCP also be accessible via logging into our accounts without clicking through a link? It would be nice to see all CCP correspondence, even marketing & such, in our Account Settings pages. Just a thought - keep up the tremendous work Sreegs!
I'll look into this. I hadn't thought of it actually and I think it's a good idea. Unfortunately we don't own The Internet so we can't stop people from sending mails. We're working on the problem but there's no really easy solution given the technology involved. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
708
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote: wow...nice answer. sounds to me like some1 with a legit concern...in fact it sounds like the same concern i have. you'll forgive the /b/ if we don't just passively accept that ccp will take care of it... because ccp doesn't. your customer service/customer care is the issue here. i'm a customer with a bunch of accounts. none of which have been affected by this in any way. nor do i want them to be affected. Vaerah Vahrokha's question is a legit one. your refusal to properly answer, and answer with such ( i hate to say such tone but u basicly told them to "shut up" and me as well) shows just that deficiency
I've actually given the only answer I can give multiple times. I'm not dealing in hypotheticals. If something happens we'll look at it. That's the only answer and insisting that it's not an answer doesn't make it so. I'm sorry if this doesn't please you but that's all there is to say.
I don't find limiting myself to answering the same question asked 7 different ways three times is really all that great a sin. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
708
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You're wrong. We can move on. This looks like a bit of an elusive reply. CCP Sreegs wrote:Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:re:Vaerah Vahrokha
exactly my point. i'm sorry ccp, i'm all for catching those cheaters but you need to be more clear. this game means a great deal to some of us...many of us...because of the time we spend. we can't effectively play the game if we don't know the rules. effectively you'd shut a lot of useful people out of the game with your knee jerk reaction. When this happens is the time I'd recommend getting mad about it. In all seriousness I can't defend a position that hasn't occurred. But it had occurred, I even mailed about it at the address you provided (which I suppose by now is in some endless queue?). Edit: I tried contacting *anyone* at CCP who had any tiny bit of power about customer care, all I got is endless circles of people pointing and escalating at each other. Nobody to frankly speak at their presence and be heard.
That's where you're wrong. I'm not getting into specifics as I said. I won't discuss hypotheticals as I said. As I said there have been no instances where people were flagged erroneously who weren't involved in something else. If you choose to believe otherwise then that's your choice but if it has happened we haven't seen it yet and until we do I'm not discussing what could potentially maybe happen. That's it.
If something happened with you related to a GM matter then I can't help you there because I didn't do anything. Unless you were banned today or Friday then "wasn't me" unless it was for botting and there's absolutely nothing I can say about it. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
708
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:2) I've already explained this. In most cases thus far people knew. I already told you to vet the people you lend isk to. The last time I checked making loans wasn't something we insure. If you lose your loan you can't tell a GM to give it back. Your other risk is that they're crooked. I don't see why this is an issue to be frank with you. Ok, it seems like we're thinking of two different scenarios here. What I thought you were originally suggesting was the following: A loans money to B. B is a RMTer, and gets caught. A suffers a punishment for being associated with RMTing (whether it's a ban, additional ISK removed, etc). However, that quoted statement sounds like you actually meant this: A loans money to B. B is a RMTer, and gets caught. A does not get any kind of reimbursement, but suffers no CCP-imposed penalties beyond the fact that the person who borrowed their money no longer has it (just like if the person took the loan and refused to pay it back). If you would confirm that you're only talking about the second scenario, then I agree that there is no issue with the policy. Quote:We will deal with situations as they arise and each one will be unique. That's the nature of this business. And this is why many people are not happy with your GM actions: the fact that there's too much personal judgement and little confidence that rulings are consistent. Just look at this thread even, with people expressing (reasonable) concerns about favoritism and different punishments for different people. You know why that is? Because you haven't considered all of these hypotheticals and published clear procedures for how these cases will be handled.
I'm not a GM. "Many people" may be unhappy about something but I'm doing my job and that's to catch badguys. If you have beef with something the GMs did then I can't help you there as I don't work in the GM department. I'm confident in my work 100% and that's all I can attest to.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
713
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
corestwo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Jim Luc wrote:By the way, is there any way we can put an end to the endless "Player Transfer" phishing spam? I've been getting lots of it and forward each to [email protected] - usually it all goes to the trash anyways. I generally don't even click any links in an Eve-related email, even if it's from CCP. They're offering free time but I won't take their survey simply because I don't trust any emails from ccp or related anymore. Is there a way we can determine if an email link is authentic, and each email that's sent from CCP also be accessible via logging into our accounts without clicking through a link? It would be nice to see all CCP correspondence, even marketing & such, in our Account Settings pages. Just a thought - keep up the tremendous work Sreegs! I'll look into this. I hadn't thought of it actually and I think it's a good idea. Unfortunately we don't own The Internet so we can't stop people from sending mails. We're working on the problem but there's no really easy solution given the technology involved. You may want to look into the company my wife works at if you're looking for a solution to this. Interested to know more? ;)
Send an email to the security email address. We've looked into a lot of things but ultimately none of what we've seen in pretty much any case fits our unique environment and situation with this particular spam. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:First, I'd still appreciate confirmation that your mention of "loans" was only about the fact that loans to RMTers will not be reimbursed, not additional punishments being made on the premise that anyone who loans money to an RMTer is guilty of being involved in RMTing themselves. CCP Sreegs wrote:I'm not a GM. "Many people" may be unhappy about something but I'm doing my job and that's to catch badguys. If you have beef with something the GMs did then I can't help you there as I don't work in the GM department. I'm confident in my work 100% and that's all I can attest to.
Not you personally, you as in CCP in general. Way too many people feel that punishments/reimbursements/etc are not handled consistently, whether out of favoritism or simply different GMs doing things different ways. And it really doesn't help when you say that considering hypothetical situations is a "waste of time". Without considering those scenarios and making public rulings on how they will be handled, how are we supposed to have any confidence that the outcome will be fair and consistent? Whether or not it's strictly necessary, it's throwing fuel on the fire of alliance drama, especially combined with the fact that your refusal to comment on specific cases allows speculation to run out of control.
I won't confirm that. We don't regulate loans. We won't have people funding RMT operations claiming they were making loans and wasting our time. The scenario you are painting hasn't occurred but I'm not going to personally underwrite individual's spaceloan businesses on the off chance something that hasn't occurred may. We can see what goes on and that's all there is to it. If something goes south we'll look at it. Hasn't happened. It's like developing a contingency for earth's gravity failing. Sure it COULD happen but I'm not paying someone to think about it.
I'm not in the GM department so I cannot attest to what they may or may not have done. Have a problem with the wave from today or last Friday? Email me. Otherwise I'm off the hook.
I don't make people speculate it's an activity you choose to engage in. I do my work regardless of whether people choose to invent alternate realities or not otherwise nothing would ever get done. I'm not in the habit of spending oodles of time defending our work against every conceivable nightmare scenario painted on the internet. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tyke Orlieveit wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:corestwo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Jim Luc wrote:By the way, is there any way we can put an end to the endless "Player Transfer" phishing spam? I've been getting lots of it and forward each to [email protected] - usually it all goes to the trash anyways. I generally don't even click any links in an Eve-related email, even if it's from CCP. They're offering free time but I won't take their survey simply because I don't trust any emails from ccp or related anymore. Is there a way we can determine if an email link is authentic, and each email that's sent from CCP also be accessible via logging into our accounts without clicking through a link? It would be nice to see all CCP correspondence, even marketing & such, in our Account Settings pages. Just a thought - keep up the tremendous work Sreegs! I'll look into this. I hadn't thought of it actually and I think it's a good idea. Unfortunately we don't own The Internet so we can't stop people from sending mails. We're working on the problem but there's no really easy solution given the technology involved. You may want to look into the company my wife works at if you're looking for a solution to this. Interested to know more? ;) Send an email to the security email address. We've looked into a lot of things but ultimately none of what we've seen in pretty much any case fits our unique environment and situation with this particular spam. Stupid question: Simply signing the email content with a Publicly available PGP/GPG key is out of the window I guess? The recipient isn't affected by this, and the people with the capability or desire can confirm the signature? I guess formatting issues might be a hurdle, I've not really experimented with anything but plain-text email being signed though.
What percentage of people do you suppose would actually use that? It's certainly feasible but adoption rates are abysmal out in the world. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mioelnir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:I'll look into this. I hadn't thought of it actually and I think it's a good idea. Unfortunately we don't own The Internet so we can't stop people from sending mails. We're working on the problem but there's no really easy solution given the technology involved. One doesn't need to own the internet for that. For example the CCP bulk mta often used for surveys and stuff is run under the cocos islands domain ccp.cc which - while it does indeed belong to CCP - is never ever used anywhere else that customers see, so it probably looks fishy to most users. Then again, if you read your mails with full headers, you are probably already sufficiently paranoid.
The bulk mails use both SPF and DomainKeys (however it's been rebranded) so you can certainly verify the authenticity of those. Unfortunately not every mail we send is sent through this system. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Captain Thunk wrote:CCP Sreegs
Will Corporation CEOs be allowed to request a list of their members who've had Transaction reversals through RMT with the amount?
I'm pretty sure some corps would like to kick them.
Not at this time. You're welcome to comment in the scarlet letter thread linked in the blog though as this would probably qualify. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier.
You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx
Those may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is.
I hope that helps. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Tyke Orlieveit wrote: Stupid question: Simply signing the email content with a Publicly available PGP/GPG key is out of the window I guess? The recipient isn't affected by this, and the people with the capability or desire can confirm the signature?
I guess formatting issues might be a hurdle, I've not really experimented with anything but plain-text email being signed though.
What percentage of people do you suppose would actually use that? It's certainly feasible but adoption rates are abysmal out in the world. Debian signs their security announcements. They are completely accessible to people not using PGP/GPG and are authenticated for people who are using them.
Yeah I know some people sign their emails, what I'm saying is given the work that would go into implementing such a system how many people would actually gain benefit from it.
PGP signing adoption rates are terrible or were at least the last time I checked. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: I'm not in the habit of spending oodles of time defending our work against every conceivable nightmare scenario painted on the internet. This is hardly "every nightmare scenario" we're talking about. I was able to think up these scenarios in just a few minutes while writing the post, so it doesn't exactly inspire confidence to hear that you (or anyone else at CCP) haven't considered them yet. Instead, it gives the impression that you are too focused on punishing the guilty and haven't spent enough time preparing for how to handle the consequences of those punishments. This kind of vague "we'll deal with it as it happens" might have been fine when you were just handing out individual account bans on clearly guilty ISK sellers, but now you're talking about "ending alliances" and having a much bigger impact on the sandbox.
Then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. :) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
718
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 21:53:00 -
[60] - Quote
orphenshadow wrote:Sounds sexy..
One thing I'm curious about.. It's kind of a hypothetical scenario but...
How does one figure out what isk was generated with a bot vs actual work..
For instance. If a player spent a lot of time actually ratting and doing stuff. But decided to run a bot for a few hours while he/she goes pvp on another toon..
How would CCP know that x isk was from bot, and y isk was legit?
Not that this scenario is even realistic. I'm pretty sure those with access to bots would never have the desire to rat :P
We don't differentiate. Don't bot and you won't ever have to care. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
719
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 21:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Shandir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps. I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site. Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK.
That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v
If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
719
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Shandir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps. I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site. Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK. That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them. Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT". Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P...
To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
725
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
Iniquita wrote:Are you simply negging individuals or are corp wallets getting hit by this as well?
We're reversing RMT transactions wherever they ended up. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.
Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope. not really the problem is that ever since CCP started sending newbies "PLEX are a great way to get ISK, buy some now!" emails, RMT sites have put the direct sale of ISK on the backburner and are instead emphasizing the sale of PLEX in their advertisements - because now everybody knows that buying PLEX to get some ISK is legit.... Back in the day the division was easy - GTCs are legit and everything else is bad RMT. There was no way a RMT site could have gotten their fingers on working GTCs without CCP seeing their cut. Now CCP sells PLEX which is good. And RMT sites sell PLEX which is bad. Every time CCP advertises PLEX as legal RMT, "bad" RMT sites profit because they sell the very same product as CCP (which was not possible with GTCs) and the "... but only if you buy it from eveonline.com" gets swept under the rug. Anyone wanting to combat RMT has to deal with this issue sooner or later - and while Sreegs cannot solve it on his own (guess bizdev are happy that they can sell 2 PLEX for more $$ than 1 GTC and won't let go off that easily) he should at least be very aware of the problem. If he himself has lost track of legal vs illegal RMT, how is he supposed to prevent Joe Rookie from stumbling into the same trap? Oh but he isn't supposed to prevent that? his job only involves technical detection means and infrequent appeals to the playerbase to please change their behavior? he doesn't care about anything outside that narrow field of vision? well, you only solve a problem on the scale of RMT in EVE by taking a coordinated & holistic approach across departments. Not by saying "oh but this is the job of game design", "and this is due to business development", "and that's the work of GMs", ... If that is the case then get game design, Business Development and GMs on one table and solve the problem together. CCP Sreegs will always end up as the spokesperson and player contact for any sort of bad behavior, no matter whether he thinks it falls into his responsibility or not. edit: directionless post lacks direction, I'm too tired to write concisely but I hope the gist of it is clear
Just to make sure we're clear unless the post comes from me in this thread or another blue poster it is conjecture and should be treated as such. I really don't need players answering questions about things they don't know anything about, least of all what my job responsibilities are. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
Allataria wrote:Screegs,
Does ISBoxer count as a botting program to get banned? Someone was saying that that particular program was allowed by EVE but I can't see how any third party program that runs the game for you would be allowed. Please confirm?
I won't say it's ok but people have said certain GMs have. I'm not banning for it today and given the way the subject has been communicated we'll send out an announcement before we do. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:How long till Chribba and Grendell get both banned for having contracted RMTed supercapitals with their 3rd party services?
They transacted so many it's statistically impossible not one of them came from RMT yet they have the same tools I have (that is ZERO) to make sure who you deal with is not tied to RMT.
I guess they can petition when it happens just like everyone else. (it hasn't happened) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Amanda Humphries wrote:First of all, a big thumbs up to the CCP security team. This has been a long time coming and I'm sure this will have huge impacts on the quality of the game.
Secondly, I'm not sure if this has been looked into, but perhaps there should be a feature implemented where you have to approve of someone giving you isk before it goes into your wallet. This will prevent the tactic of sending RMT'd isk to your enemies and reduce the workload on the security team.
It doesn't change anything from our perspective. You'd in a worst case scenario be out the isk you received. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Ugh this forum is literally the worst (or the best, depending on how you see it)-- press post, no posting happens.
Anyway, tl;dp: Given that RMTers will lie about why they want ISK, and perspective loans are usually evaluated based on the loanee's ability to repay the loan (their wealth, repayment track record, etc), how the hell are we supposed to magically know who is and who isn't an RMTer when we go to loan people ISK?
Serious question. I'm part of an alliance of 5k plus players (you may have heard of it). We have a whole sub-forum dedicated to player contracts (largely loans). I have a pile of spacebux of my own and loan some of that out to people periodically based on whether or not I think that person can and will pay me back. How is this supposed to continue to be a thing if you can find yourself permabanned not for botting or RMTing but merely for loaning isk to ONE CHARACTER of someone who does RMT (which could involve any of the accounts that person has on the books, including characters that may or may not be in your alliance at all)?
My job isn't to secure the loans your corporation is making outside of the game mechanics. That is your risk and always will be. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan.
I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about
A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date B) Something that is a player-run mechanic.
I can't provide validation around something we didn't create. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:01:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan.
e: For clarification, is it loaning to anyone involved in RMT that will get you f##ked or just ISK sellers? I imagine there are exponentially fewer sellers than buyers.
Your risk as it stands today would be that you'd be supplying a seller who would then sell what you loaned them. Buyers simply have the isk removed and only the isk that was given them by the seller.
:edit: either way it seems you're out money because you made a bad loan? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
My job isn't to secure the loans your corporation is making outside of the game mechanics. That is your risk and always will be.
:edit: and always has been
Sending ISK to somebody and (hopefully) have it back + interests after 30 days IS inside game mechanics. Else why can we send ISK to somebody else? With your reasoning ANY ISK exchange can be with a RMTer and subject to ban. And you guess what? They get ban, no ability to post. No ability to petition but use a craptastic ancient general contact form that is used by thousands guys sending spam or asking for general EvE info. After WEEKS of being daily stolen subscription money a GM replies them that their logs show nothing and closes the petition. They can reopen a new petition and escalate it and get a "the former GM was right, now GTFO" reply. Be happy, now they will have purple letter, unsellable account and be shunned by everybody and no single way to ever be heard again. Sure this is not your concern, but it's us who have to bear with this bullsht even in tangential cases.
Giving isk to someone is in the game mechanics yes. Getting it back with interest based on some predetermined condition is not. That is what a loan is. A deposit box is not a loan system. We didn't build a loan system and nothing you're lamenting has occurred based on anything my team has done. Nor do I even see it as conceivable at this point but don't let that stop you from making 100 more posts on the subject in this thread. :) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
729
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Giving isk to someone is in the game mechanics yes. Getting it back with interest based on some predetermined condition is not. That is what a loan is. A deposit box is not a loan system. We didn't build a loan system and nothing you're lamenting has occurred based on anything my team has done. Nor do I even see it as conceivable at this point but don't let that stop you from making 100 more posts on the subject in this thread. :)
When I will be banned just because I did what people on the Market Discussion forum do since years (EvE finance) or because I did what Chribba does (holding ships and collateral for third parties) or just because I got paid with RMT money for a BPO I sold (notice, no loan here), then at least I'll be able to wait for the unban and then link these posts as a "hey I was right" reminder. Meager consolation, eh?
If it will make you feel better if that happens I'll either say you were right or you'll have been caught doing something bad. |
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CCP Loktofeit
C C P C C P Alliance
79
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
InVictus Kell wrote:From the dev post:
" Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt "
nice, reads like a good 'ol fashion political slogan or old war bond ad from WWII.
http://community.eveonline.com/bitmaps/newsletters/vol032/plexNewEden.jpg
"...do Eve News 24; it's a very accurate and informative website." - Mara Tessidar |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
General Abrams wrote:Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
They do |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:Well, I have about 50bn isk in non-secured loans out. It's just going by his indications it seems that when I take payment for them (this month and next) that I will be expecting another ban, followed by a few days to a couple of weeks of me having this argument with GM's. I dont think my loans are out to RMT'ers or BOT'ers but how do I know that projects I am funding will not fall foul of some script he runs.
Would I give isk up to someone who is just going to go do botting, no, durrrr. But to know that yet another someone inside ccp is setting script triggers based on movement of things that may be valid, well, it just makes me sad. He cant help that there's no mechanism in place - he could help, he could complain to the team that deals with that area of design. GM's complain about workload, we give solutions that would reduce workload. How a DEV can say that helping to raise a solution or guideline for GM's or Design Teams to go over is not something in his area shows how much each section of ccp is now sharded. If he cared about his time he would point the problem to the design teams, If he gave two hoots about the GM's time then he would not just say that "Loans are not supported ... It is not my area .. I will ban you .. Speak to someone else".
Not saying he's a bad guy, Not saying that the game isnt in dire need of BOT detection, Not saying that RMT is a good thing. I am saying that if he is going to be over the script routines that dictates when we get a ban (daily) then he needs to also have some responsibilty in pointing the erronious detections towards a team that can make sure they dont happen and put systems in place to make it so it no longer causes problems for such detections.
Now, if he wants to say that when I have 50bn isk transferred back to me (history shows a large sum going out previously) over the next few weeks that I have nothing to worry about then I can let the argument go.
Nobody is getting script triggers today about anything other than bad activity. Stop panicking about things that aren't happening and spreading misinformation please thanks. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:General Abrams wrote:Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
They do market bots ?
Yes them too |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 23:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I suppose if the loan market dries up-- not completely, but a large portion of it-- due to fear of bans, more people will need to turn to CCP-sanctioned RMTing to get money, right?
Personally I won't be loaning out ISK anymore. Making a few billion isn't worth jeopardizing six years of work.
People are paranoid enough ok |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.
ugh |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:06:00 -
[79] - Quote
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan. I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date B) Something that is a player-run mechanic. I can't provide validation around something we didn't create. i just want to know about the loan thing.... that troubles me. will bans be implemented for some1 who loans money to some1 who is a RMT or if the isk is just gone. isk gone i'm fine with, account actions of any kind....not so much. then the "knowing" part comes in.... you are putting the cart before the horse ... so to speak. you never answered my original question which was this exactly. again... i'm not looking to get around the rules but you never even made it clear. loans happen.... its part of any game, supported or not. eve is supposed to be a sand box. so now i can't make loans cause its not in the game structure? of course not. this is ridiculous. so again -tldr version- Can an account get banned for making a loan to an account involved in RMT, knowningly or not? the loaned iskies lost is a risk of playing the game... but are there other actions beyond that? - /tldr- answer those 2 questions and 90% of the crap u have been getting will go away. from what i can see ccp did well on this...except for the transparency part....not about how the individuals are caught (that would be plain stupid). but definitively the rules of what is allowed (hypothetical or not... the elusiveness seems to be because nobody knows exactly what is going on) as well as the punishments need to be known. that's just a huge DUH
We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever". |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:13:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Can we expect quarterly updates on RMT & bots (ala QEN)? (mainly for visibility purposes). Whats your comment of isk laundering schemes?
You can expect regular reports. You've gotten two blogs out of me in a month plus fanfest. What we'll look to do in the least is have Stillman show results, graphs, numbers and statistics regularly and I'll probably moonwalk away until something changes. I'll work on schedules with him in the morning as I would like to commit to having things out regularly. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
742
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:27:00 -
[81] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
First of all I apologize for having been so suspicious, the "customer service" made me jaded about EvE enough that I quit over it in the past. Now on the question: what does "flagged" mean? Is it a ban? Or half ban? Or you go in some black list? Or wach list?
That just means activity has occurred that we're going to perform some action on. That action would depend on the activity at the time. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
742
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
cyndrogen wrote:I am 110% against BOTS and RMT farmers etc..... however I would REALLY like a serious answer to this question.
The reason BOTS exist is because a game mechanic exists where no human intelligence is required to complete the task. A BOT is capable of performing a game task much better then a human because this is actually a GAME DESIGN FLAW.
I hate to say it but botting exists because the activity of mining ore and ice is brainless, requiers no skills and can be automated.
Several people have made good suggestions on how to improve the game and make it more fun while making it harder for botting to occur, yet here we are banning accounts.You would not need to pay a security team a ton of REAL money if you actually use that money to fix the game mechanics.
Which begs the question, is it cheaper to pay a security team money to ban botters instead of fixing the actual game mechanics?
Yeah posting the same question that's already been answered in this thread isn't going to get you an answer you like better. I believe your assertion to be absolutely incorrect 100%.
By this standard, as I said earlier, every MMO ever was a boring noninteractive game and every one in the future will be as well.
I'm glad you got your message out though. Again. Stay Strong! |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
742
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".
This already sounds a lot better than the "unwittingly loan isk to RMTer, get permabanned" thing everyone thought was going on. I think I see what you meant now when you said "CCP doesn't secure your loans." People (ok, maybe I speak for myself here) aren't worried about losing the loaned isk, they're worried about "hey I loaned a guy isk, now all my accounts are perma'd." If you're accidentally flagged and you can explain the situation to a GM and get the ban reversed, that's not nearly as big of a deal. As you said, any capital we hand over to loan-seekers comes with the risk of not getting it back.
The GMs would hand the query over to us to run at this point and we do the inspection. We just don't directly handle petitions. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
746
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 00:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
I'm going to bed because it's almost 1am. I'll pick this up tomorrow and probably follow it for another day or so before I moonwalk off into the sunset. |
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GM Nythanos
Game Masters C C P Alliance
7
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Posted - 2012.04.04 01:42:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hi guys, just wanted to give a quick clarification for PLEX/ETC questions from before:
ETCs can be purchased from the official resellers at https://secure.eveonline.com/ETC however it's important to note that this is buying ETC, not PLEX. The difference is important.
While a 60 day ETC can be converted to PLEX, you are not buying two 30 Day Pilot License Extensions from those websites buy a 60 day EVE Time Code. It may seem nitpicky since the ETC can be converted to PLEX, but converting the ETC to PLEX is one option, not the only one, and until that conversion is made you have a code for 60 days of game time, not 2 PLEX sitting in your Redeemable Items. If another website is claiming they sell PLEX directly in an official capacity the claim would be incorrect. Buying PLEX directly from another site is not allowed.
To put it another way, there's no such thing as an "Official PLEX Reseller", only Official ETC resellers.
The information given earlier was not for the ETC/PLEX system as a whole, but for the PLEX-from-sites concerns like:
ThatSourDiesel wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The ONLY legal seller of PLEX is CCP. This was in the blog. Does this mean that other online retailers for PLEX, like Shattered Crystal and Battleclinic, are ILLEGAL sellers? I didn't think they were, but your post confuses me. Can anyone clarify this for me please? Thanks!!
A short answer to questions about what is/isn't ok for ETC/PLEX acquisition would be:
Buying ETC from official resellers - Ok Converting an ETC to 2 PLEX - Ok Selling an ETC through the secure method - Ok Buying PLEX through Account Management - Ok Buying and Selling PLEX in game via the Market and Contracts - Ok Buying PLEX from other Websites - Not Allowed GM Nythanos | Senior Game Master |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
247
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Posted - 2012.04.04 10:09:00 -
[86] - Quote
I wasn't going to butt in on this good discussion. But since it was requested, hi!
In a few weeks, once we have more data and pretty graphs, we'll make a numbers blog. So look forward to that. Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2087
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 12:55:00 -
[87] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
PLEX are only for snitches.
I have solid information that CCP Sunset and CCP Guard were selling RMT Quafe in fanfest. CCP Punkturis rigged the delivery courier interface with some sort of macro program and CCP Navigator was running cloaking device to keep entire project under the radar. Rumor is that CCP Soundwave was the mastermind behind this scam and that it benefited the group with tens of billions of free isk. Please take a look and don't forget to send me a plex for telling you all this!
You know too much. I've dreaded this day for a long time but I always knew it would come...
Sreegs...please make it quick. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
954
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 03:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I hate to be, THAT GUY, but what happen to me being able to use my little security code thing i got at LAST YEARS FANFEST.
Are you guys that ADHD?
July as per the presentation at fanfest. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
955
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Krunzer Shakiel wrote:Does anyone know what is a reasonable time for a GM/CCP or someone to respond to a report BOT action issued in game. Its been 2 weeks since I've reported a blindly obvious Market BOT and nothing has happened? I realise there are bigger fish to fry and ( and are being fried) but trading is my main activity.
I've found since the initial BAN a few weeks ago the market bots are increasingly interfering with the market again...
My assumption is the Report Bot button is more of a feel good item, and/or requires multiple hits on the same toon to get any action (...personally I don't actually expect more from this feature, and god knows how many times it get used or misued a day)
One reason I'm pushing with this market bot to go in this thread is that it has an obvious signature which CCP don't seem to have on their autodetect rules (yet?) - I would hope Sreegs or someone wish to pursue this.
Reporting a bot does not insinuate immediate action or actually action at all. It does matter though. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
955
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Allataria wrote:CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. Interestingly enough, there is a POOP dealing with a variety of means to make ISK, INCLUDING NINJA SALVAGING. If you want a way to make ISK that includes all the fun of PVP, you really can't go past gankers officer-fit Tengus and CNRs in mission hubs. As for botters "being essential" GÇö bollocks! Bots are directly responsible for making mining and speculation low value activities.
Hey if you're the guy who makes that you might as well know that my threads aren't here for your advertisements so go away. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
955
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Posted - 2012.04.05 03:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:saiy'an wrote:hello i just read this devblog, am kinda confused is the only legit plex directly from CCP, does this mean the ones you can buy on the market (ingame) is illegal since the sellers may have bought them with RMT isk.
how are we to know if the plex we are buying from this market is legal? Unless you got them using a purchase order for say 100 isk per unit then it shouldnt matter. What is interesting is that they are saying they are going to claw back the isk, if they are going to reverse transactions then that would be a bit odd for consumable or destroyed things. Your question goes to show something simple, RMT'ers will use contracts and markets to wash the items that they move. If you have buy orders up for 1% of an items value and someone fills it and they happen to be an RMT'er then you might need to explain, as the DEV is not going to get into the fine details then we will not know for sure. I would say that normal day to day market transactions are 100% safe unless your orders are showing some serious sign's that your trying to wash product. Few of those orders get filled, and generally the guys who place those orders are known. I will not pretend that there's a easy way to spot legit vs bot or legit vs rmt. The ingame mechanics allow for scamming, overselling and underselling. RMT'ers do sell ingame products now for a fraction of the real value (You can catch them from time to time) so I know it does go on. It will be down to a GM or DEV to figgure out if those orders were to wash product or if they were a legit type of scam. In the old contract days I would place orders up that isk sellers would fill and then report them. When the contract system came along and they could do things "private" then the ability for me to steal their isk was removed. Just buy from the market and dont worry about it. Bot minerals and RMT isk flows through the markets in so many ways that it is doubtful you can buy any manufactured product that doesnt have a tie to RMT or Bots. I for one and all for getting rid of BOTS and RMT. I am also all for getting rid of CCP's manipulation of the PLEX consumption. I am also for game fixes that would help stop Bots and secure gameplay. I dont think i'll ask this dev any more questions, as he asked me to stop spreading lies. Asking a question is not a lie, but he's a dev and I guess he doesnt understand the difference.
If I asked you nicely once to stop lying and you didn't listen what am I to do but ensure you're banned? (nothing is the answer)
Here's the difference. I have a question what is a butt? That's a question... I have a question 2000 pages of text ending in "so the market blah blah blah" is not a question. In short get out. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
961
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Posted - 2012.04.05 10:14:00 -
[92] - Quote
Neo Agricola wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Krunzer Shakiel wrote:Does anyone know what is a reasonable time for a GM/CCP or someone to respond to a report BOT action issued in game. Its been 2 weeks since I've reported a blindly obvious Market BOT and nothing has happened? I realise there are bigger fish to fry and ( and are being fried) but trading is my main activity.
I've found since the initial BAN a few weeks ago the market bots are increasingly interfering with the market again...
My assumption is the Report Bot button is more of a feel good item, and/or requires multiple hits on the same toon to get any action (...personally I don't actually expect more from this feature, and god knows how many times it get used or misued a day)
One reason I'm pushing with this market bot to go in this thread is that it has an obvious signature which CCP don't seem to have on their autodetect rules (yet?) - I would hope Sreegs or someone wish to pursue this.
Reporting a bot does not insinuate immediate action or actually action at all. It does matter though. If you are doing nothing against a bot I reported, why should I report them? this one sentence is giving me the feeling, you dont care about bots at all and all you are doing is only PR... I hope I'm wrong (or misunderstood you) and you are working on a "bot-free" Eve.
What? Read the last part that I wrote. It's used. The simple act of you clicking a button doesn't mean instant gratification but the reports generated are used quite a bit. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
961
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Posted - 2012.04.05 10:16:00 -
[93] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Selene D'Celeste wrote:
Agreed! (Quoting so I don't have to paraphrase this since I'm typing too much below as is)
We apparently needed Chribba to post his concerns before multiple people found motivation to basically agree with what I am posting since the first day and only getting flames as a result. Selene D'Celeste wrote: It hasn't been said particularly well in this thread, but I think most of the nervousness of players who have built something "unsupported" in the sandbox is that future methods for security or whatnot are going to trample over everyone in a "**** everyone who isn't using hard coded game features" way.
EvE greatest assets are its players, expecially those who find new ways to do stuff in the sandbox. At Fanfest and everywhere else EvE is flaunted as the "emergent gameplay" forge. EvE finance and meta-services are both ISK risky, emergent and EULA compliant (i.e it's not the same "emergent gameplay" shown at web-scrambling freighters and similar). Those meta-professions bring in a further dimension to the game, some of them can be done just by an handful of players who earned mass-respect over years of flawless records. Those players are completely reliant on their reputation, this is why a quick "ban first, eventually undo it 1 month later" politic will just ruin their years of efforts and leave a stain on them even once the penalty is lifted. Like in real life, the other players will just think: "he was guilty, he just got unbanned because he was important", "he was guilty but he has CCP connections" and so on.
Yeah you can post for the next year and I'm still not underwriting your profession or changing my methods because you posted a lot despite never having a problem. I think it's time you moved on. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
961
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Posted - 2012.04.05 10:28:00 -
[94] - Quote
Vulcan23 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Selene D'Celeste wrote:
Agreed! (Quoting so I don't have to paraphrase this since I'm typing too much below as is)
We apparently needed Chribba to post his concerns before multiple people found motivation to basically agree with what I am posting since the first day and only getting flames as a result. Selene D'Celeste wrote: It hasn't been said particularly well in this thread, but I think most of the nervousness of players who have built something "unsupported" in the sandbox is that future methods for security or whatnot are going to trample over everyone in a "**** everyone who isn't using hard coded game features" way.
EvE greatest assets are its players, expecially those who find new ways to do stuff in the sandbox. At Fanfest and everywhere else EvE is flaunted as the "emergent gameplay" forge. EvE finance and meta-services are both ISK risky, emergent and EULA compliant (i.e it's not the same "emergent gameplay" shown at web-scrambling freighters and similar). Those meta-professions bring in a further dimension to the game, some of them can be done just by an handful of players who earned mass-respect over years of flawless records. Those players are completely reliant on their reputation, this is why a quick "ban first, eventually undo it 1 month later" politic will just ruin their years of efforts and leave a stain on them even once the penalty is lifted. Like in real life, the other players will just think: "he was guilty, he just got unbanned because he was important", "he was guilty but he has CCP connections" and so on. Yeah you can post for the next year and I'm still not underwriting your profession or changing my methods because you posted a lot despite never having a problem. I think it's time you moved on. Your reading comprehension and customer-service-fu are weak my friend. Unfortunately, none of your posts on this issue have shown that you actually comprehend the issues that are being raised and your consistent focus on the idea of 'underwriting' a profession, when then is not at all what is at issue, suggests that you maybe need to think again, think more clearly, and drop the dev-goon act. It is really not good for business and paints your company in a lamentable light.
I'm sorry you don't agree with my stance on the issue but it's the stance and has been every single time I've had to answer the question. It's not changing because what you want is wrong and HAS NEVER EVER EVER HAPPENED. YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT NOTHING. If you could give me some indication how many times I need to say that before it finally sinks in then I'll just go ahead and make that many posts and get it over with.
:edit: In addition, yes it has been asked to underwrite it a number of times. Perhaps you think you're posting in a different thread or haven't actually read this one?
:edit2: Also, not in customer service |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
961
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Posted - 2012.04.05 10:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Vulcan23 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:I'm sorry you don't agree with my stance on the issue but it's the stance and has been every single time I've had to answer the question. It's not changing because what you want is wrong and HAS NEVER EVER EVER HAPPENED. YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT NOTHING.
So, you ARE in fact willing to guarantee that it never WILL happen? Right? Otherwise your statement that people are concerned about nothing is meaningless. Or do you think it is impossible to be concerned about future events? Personally, those are the ones I do tend to get worried about as the stuff that has already happened can't really be helped. Quote: If you could give me some indication how many times I need to say that before it finally sinks in then I'll just go ahead and make that many posts and get it over with.
23 naturally.
I think I've given all the assurances I'm going to give on the matter in this thread and I find the repeated harping on niche topics which basically ignore what I've said to be an extremely disrespectful waste of my time. Read through the thread for your answer. |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
281
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Posted - 2012.04.05 10:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Pirmasis Sparagas wrote:Neo Agricola wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
Reporting a bot does not insinuate immediate action or actually action at all. It does matter though.
If you are doing nothing against a bot I reported, why should I report them? this one sentence is giving me the feeling, you dont care about bots at all and all you are doing is only PR... I hope I'm wrong (or misunderstood you) and you are working on a "bot-free" Eve. Can I answer this question Sreeg? What he means, is first, they have to investigate, if he REALY IS a bot. If not - no actions taken. (because players will report false alerts on in game (or outside game) enemies. So you can't trust blindly, you have to investigate. If I am incorect - please correct me (And don't ban me )
Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.
Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
961
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Posted - 2012.04.05 11:08:00 -
[97] - Quote
Shanky McStabber wrote:Shanky McStabber wrote:I have a question for Jersey Johnson. Is your program able to tell the difference between RMT and Isk being traded for Eve Related Services? As per the CCP Want Ads forums: 5. Paying isk for out-of-game services that are related to EVE such as team speak servers or killboards is allowable and you should preface your thread with WTB [service] CCP Spitfire Post Still looking to hear something about this. I would like to make sure that trading Signatures/Vent/TS for isk isn't going to get someone flagged as it seems to me it could look suspiciously like RMT even if it is an "allowed" expenditure of isk.
I've stated before that I do not support activities not supported by game mechanics. You can call them "loans". You can "rent out vent slots". You can sell pictures of loved ones....
I'm not going to guarantee services that are not explicitly written into the mechanics. If a false positive happens then let us know and we'll figure out how to deal with it. It hasn't. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
961
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Posted - 2012.04.05 11:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Neo Agricola wrote:CCP Stillman wrote: Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.
Ok, lets put it in other words: Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM). (whatever soon means)?
The only answer we're going to give is in the post you quoted. :) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
966
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Posted - 2012.04.05 11:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
It's been a couple of days and I'm just answering the same rephrased questions from the same people at this point so I'm going to go ahead and call this thread a success, put a fork in it and ride off into the sunset. Enjoy! |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
966
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Posted - 2012.04.05 11:24:00 -
[100] - Quote
Styrling wrote:Yo last question before you lock this *****, how long is your petition queue from this still? I know you have undone some perma's already but other people are still waiting for a word.
I'm not a GM so I don't know. The ones I've gotten have either done something wrong or were already unbanned. (and they still did something wrong) |
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