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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Jolly Rogerer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2101]
Edited by: Jolly Rogerer on 14/10/2008 16:43:29
Originally by: Borg Zorg We are working with our billing services partners to address this issue which is being caused by server issues on their end of the pipe and thereby beyond our control.[/b]
Kaupthing Bank, perhaps?
Quote: Kaupthing Bank announces that the Icelandic Financial Supervisory (IFSA) has decided to take on the powers of Kaupthing Bank's shareholders' meetings. Furthermore, the board of directors has resigned. In addition, the IFSA has appointed a receivership committee to assume the powers of the board of directors with immediate effect.
Spiffy.
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Hixxy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:42:00 -
[2102]
Originally by: Venus Einstein
Originally by: Wet Ferret I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.
Yes, good job CCP, good job.
double signed,verified,copyied......
THIS IS THE MESSAGE FOLKS; WHATS COMMING UP NEXT
the decline of MMOs
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2103]
Comes home and finds the threads still going strong nearly 24 hours later ...
Originally by: Dlightfull I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?
Isn't this the exact reason why this needs doing? If I translate the first phrase to English ... "I never paid real money for Eve"
So why should you get something for nothing? CCP hf are a COMPANY who want to make money to pay their staff (the developers who make this game need occasional food and beer and a place to sleep other than at their desks!) and a business needs an INCOME. If you aren't giving them an income then what gives you any right to complain about them changing their mind on how their product works - which most of us PAY FOR and, indeed, a quite happy to do so as we enjoy PLAYING the game.
The way this reads is that your first character ("The first account is the 1 i make isk on") is actually just an ISK-FARMER and not a player at all! Really??
Pay to play. Do it right.
IZ
My principles
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Vietone
Gallente Inherently Risky Schemes
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2104]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Originally by: Vietone
Originally by: Mohenna Edited by: Mohenna on 14/10/2008 15:46:33 Teh internet is broken!!11 Nobody used the wayback machine yet. I have to fix it. See the past versions of the guide in their full truth:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080212211449/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20080122061230/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071229095941/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20071206164722/http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
...That said... I support the change. PAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!! (yeah, their PR skill sux, CCP truly are players: they minimized their charisma :D)
It doesnt matter if it was in the player guide or not. They never intended it to be an option, they only stated how it worked. IF they did intend the game to function like that, it would have been in many more places than just the player guide.
I bet over half the eve community didnt even know you could ghost train. Cause I never heard of it and neither have the majority of people I know in the game. Therefore, I look at it like this, fewer people, less lag.
Your ignorance is not our problem.
You being poor is not our problem.
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CIA1
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2105]
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Fair is fair..they say what they offer, and you can take it or leave it. Noone is forcing you to stay. Thats fair.
F***bag
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Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:43:00 -
[2106]
3454 flame posts within 24 hours... that must be some kind of record!
And that's only from 16.02 yesterday to 16.02 today!
Introduce multiple account discounts to reduce the amount of 'ghost-training'
1st account $14.95 per month 2nd account $14.00 per month 3rd account $13.00 per month 4th account $12.50 per month each account after the 4th account $12.00 per month. Not a huge discount, but one worth it. Same discounts for longer periods, such as 3 months, 6 months and 1 year subscription.
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Pseudo Sasaya
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:44:00 -
[2107]
I find it amusing that people ***** and complain that CCP doesn't do anything about farmers because they are scared of loosing the customers, then turn around and say that CCP doesn't care about customers when they DO finally do something about one type of farming.
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:44:00 -
[2108]
Originally by: Melissa Dawn So I have to pay for two months of game time in order to train a skill that takes 45 days? My main character has been active for more then a year, and the things I have to train are long skills.
So much for making my second account primary. I'll keep my money and stay on one character from now on. Now, if I decide to train a long skill, thats 45 days of no fun for me because I can't grow. If I want to have a little fun and explore the game a little more, I have to pay for two months game time on one account, and keep the other account active. It's loose-loose for me.
I thought it was bad that I couldn't train on two characters and now the rope has been tightened even more. If this is the way it's going to be, then I think I should be allowed to train more then one character on one account at the same time.
After all, fair is fair.
Well that sounds good me because that means you actually consider how difficult that skill is to obtain as it supposed to be. Maybe you'll have to evaluate if its actually worth your time now. Oh, decisions!
What might you do with the rest of your time, then? Maybe you could play the rest of the game that doesn't involve being ADD about your skills.
Yes, fair is fair. |
Gorek Loc
Etherware Heavy Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:45:00 -
[2109]
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Fair is fair..they say what they offer, and you can take it or leave it. Noone is forcing you to stay. Thats fair.
It's like holding candy in front of a kid, you try to explain to the kid it can't have it! I am just like that kid... [b]IT IS NOT FAIR! I WANT MY CANDY!
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:45:00 -
[2110]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Comes home and finds the threads still going strong nearly 24 hours later ...
Originally by: Dlightfull I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?
Isn't this the exact reason why this needs doing? If I translate the first phrase to English ... "I never paid real money for Eve"
So why should you get something for nothing? CCP hf are a COMPANY who want to make money to pay their staff (the developers who make this game need occasional food and beer and a place to sleep other than at their desks!) and a business needs an INCOME. If you aren't giving them an income then what gives you any right to complain about them changing their mind on how their product works - which most of us PAY FOR and, indeed, a quite happy to do so as we enjoy PLAYING the game.
The way this reads is that your first character ("The first account is the 1 i make isk on") is actually just an ISK-FARMER and not a player at all! Really??
Pay to play. Do it right.
IZ
except paying isk means SOMEONE bought the GTC to sell to you. Think it through.
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St Claus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:47:00 -
[2111]
Originally by: Larg Kellein Hmmm, several sides to this, in my opinion:
1) You really can't in any degree of good faith expect to receive a service you aren't paying for. Score one for CCP.
Yeah, but it has been possible for >5 years, right from the start (right?). No active account -> no training would be ok if it had been like that right from the start. Removing feature like that now just shows that CCP really doesn't give a sh*t.
Removing rights from your customers and expecting them to like it? That's probaply the reason why they are now calling it a bug, becouse no one like bugs and it is ok to remove em.
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Debbee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:47:00 -
[2112]
ccp this is looking no good! this is wrong... get rid of your aquarium if you need money but dont hit your customers
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Krycka
Minmatar Nightmare Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:48:00 -
[2113]
This is a usless change, before if you got tired of the game you set a long time skill and leave, and if you come back you atleast have some new to look forward to. I mean the reason to leave may be its dull to train or real life issues, but atleast you have something to look forward to. Now you dont. Well thats it my account expires last october, and this time i dont tink i will renew it.
Med ett shysst jSrnrśr kan man sls hela vSrlden med hSpnad!
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Elo69007
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[2114]
RIOT...RIOT
CCP Fails
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Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[2115]
Originally by: Mora Makur Why is skill training while you have an unpaid subscription "fair"?
Why is it "fair" that a paying subscriber and an unpaid account both can accumulate SP?
As a paying subscriber, I appreciate this greatly, and I am shocked that "ghost training" continued for as long as it did. Players will now have to get used to Level V skills that are actually difficult to get.
While its regretful that players are deciding to leave the game, this only makes those Level V skills even more valuable. Thanks, CCP for a great game.
how it's fair that an paid account and only one char is training? how it's fair that an paid subscribtion can be in the position that the only char that can "acumulate SP", is not training anything caus ur job doesn't let u log in to change the skill?
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Tito Sajic
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:49:00 -
[2116]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 16:28:12
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?null
Better question - why was it removed from Serenity if it was a feature and not a bug?
/sarcasm on Obviously it was removed from Serenity because of the Balance issues that it caused. Bwhahaha. /sarcasm off
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Regio Pecunia
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:50:00 -
[2117]
I never used this Feature. But if this comes to Trinq. IŠll stop paying my alt for 2 month just to hurt CCP.
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ignobil
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:51:00 -
[2118]
this is the born of a new era in EVE...
the question is (either you like it or not)
are you going to take part of it or not?
probably iŠm not, not for a month or so, then even if things donŠt change, probably iŠll be back.
in that month iŠll test another mmoŠs, in particulary the new jumpgate evolution (iŠll never think to do something like that before this!!!!!), then iŠll decide if coming back is really an option or not
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:51:00 -
[2119]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: St Claus Edited by: St Claus on 14/10/2008 16:28:12
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall If something is listed in the user manual saying "Hey, you can do this," it's an intended effect.
That's complete nonsense. The way training is handled (simulating constant training by updating when you log in) didn't take into account the possibility that for some of the time between log-ins your account might have been "inactive". Training and billing were on different pages, as it were.
Oops!
It was unintended and no amount of documentation can ever change that fact. Nothing short of time travel can even make it an intentional decision. If you want to argue that they accepted the way it was then sure, I agree, they did. And now they don't.
http://go-dl3.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug4.jpg
That "bug" was removed from Serenity years/moths ago, why not from Tranquility if it is a bug and not a feature?null
Better question - why was it removed from Serenity if it was a feature and not a bug?
Better question:
If CCP knew how to fix this "bug" years ago why did they leave it in?
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Seblis Hyperion
54th Knights Templar THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:53:00 -
[2120]
lol ghost training was the only reason I came back to eve on all my accounts especially with the economy the way it is.
They are gambling that they will have more people stay signed up then people they lose that kept resigning up with ghost training. However, what they will lose is the incentive for people to come back after a month or two and will permently lose those people. I think short term they will earn more money but long term lose more.
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Snakester
Caldari Blood and Money Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:54:00 -
[2121]
HAHA ... ccp have put this in to take your eyes away from the speed nerf !!!
3 accts payed for on my cc for 5 years... and i aint leaving
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Innaara
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:54:00 -
[2122]
Originally by: Regio Pecunia I never used this Feature. But if this comes to Trinq. IŠll stop paying my alt for 2 month just to hurt CCP.
2 Months? Hahahaha, like I said, CCP Knows that everyone will enable their alts again sooner or later. All the people that are blabbering around here will do like I said.
I'm looking foreward at Jumpgate. Eve's time,.. no wait.. CCCP's time has ended in that godforsaken hellhole called Iceland.
p.s. I want my money back, you thiefs!
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James Potkukelkka
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:54:00 -
[2123]
This was the thing EVE had compared to other morpgs. Returning players had something to look forward to, and even if you have to be inactive for some months you were not falling behind so badly.. Not anymore :/
--
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Soldur
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:55:00 -
[2124]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
I can tell u the reason without reading through all of CCP's BS. Its because they are greedy and they want as much money as possible. i think its time to reload the old sig i used to have. we care more about money
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:55:00 -
[2125]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Still no response to people asking why CCP felt it necessary to sugarcoat the truth, that this is a financial decision, with the falsehood, this is a bug.
Even from an immoral point of view I can't see the sense in it. I can see no reason to lie as an aside when your telling the truth about the heart of the matter to a discerning audience who are quite capable of seeing straight through this kind of thing.
This is terrible PR, and I worry that CCP may just decide to cancel this change to placate the masses while never providing an explanation as to why they felt the need to so blatantly misrepresent the facts.
Also: What made Torfi Frans Olafsson think for a second that we wouldn't notice this immediately? Does he really think, having been with the company since before launch, that the community is that stupid.
The whole thing is really quite depressing because I've always been a huge fan of CCP itself and things like this are eroding my trust in what I still consider to be the best MMO company out there.
Why is this so definitely a 'financial decision'? I find the balance issue perfectly reasonable. People were exploiting a 'feature' in order to obtain hard to get skills. I find it very odd, that people so easily dismiss the balancing issue, and so adamantly decree that this can only be a purely 'financial decision'.
If anything, I think this was both a 'financial decision' and a balance decision. I think the feature was there to begin with as a sort of leniency for those who wouldn't constantly subscribe their accounts, but it was never meant to be utilized actively as a manner of advancing a characters skills, which people were increasing doing. That was 'unfair' to people who actually paid, and I appreciate it. It became a financial decision where the overhead of maintaining offline skilling became significant.
I appreciate the initial leniency, but people exploited a nice feature, and now its gone. The exploiters have only themselves to blame for this. I'm sorry to those who can't afford to subscribe constantly, but at least your inactive accounts will still be there should you decide to come back. Maybe those with multiple accounts will reduce to one, and I think that provides for a much better gaming experience full of choices. If you do not decide to come back to the game, then I wish you all a happy future gaming experience. |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:58:00 -
[2126]
Edited by: Kalintos Tyl on 14/10/2008 17:05:46
Originally by: Mora Makur
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Still no response to people asking why CCP felt it necessary to sugarcoat the truth, that this is a financial decision, with the falsehood, this is a bug.
Even from an immoral point of view I can't see the sense in it. I can see no reason to lie as an aside when your telling the truth about the heart of the matter to a discerning audience who are quite capable of seeing straight through this kind of thing.
This is terrible PR, and I worry that CCP may just decide to cancel this change to placate the masses while never providing an explanation as to why they felt the need to so blatantly misrepresent the facts.
Also: What made Torfi Frans Olafsson think for a second that we wouldn't notice this immediately? Does he really think, having been with the company since before launch, that the community is that stupid.
The whole thing is really quite depressing because I've always been a huge fan of CCP itself and things like this are eroding my trust in what I still consider to be the best MMO company out there.
Why is this so definitely a 'financial decision'? I find the balance issue perfectly reasonable. People were exploiting a 'feature' in order to obtain hard to get skills. I find it very odd, that people so easily dismiss the balancing issue, and so adamantly decree that this can only be a purely 'financial decision'.
If anything, I think this was both a 'financial decision' and a balance decision. I think the feature was there to begin with as a sort of leniency for those who wouldn't constantly subscribe their accounts, but it was never meant to be utilized actively as a manner of advancing a characters skills, which people were increasing doing. That was 'unfair' to people who actually paid, and I appreciate it. It became a financial decision where the overhead of maintaining offline skilling became significant.
I appreciate the initial leniency, but people exploited a nice feature, and now its gone. The exploiters have only themselves to blame for this. I'm sorry to those who can't afford to subscribe constantly, but at least your inactive accounts will still be there should you decide to come back. Maybe those with multiple accounts will reduce to one, and I think that provides for a much better gaming experience full of choices. If you do not decide to come back to the game, then I wish you all a happy future gaming experience.
it werent exploit read guide or here is jpg http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg edit wrong link :P http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
Shea Halley
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:58:00 -
[2127]
I don't care what they do anymore, but it is pretty cowardly that a mod can come in here and censure people but can not make some sort of reply to the masses. Also, whatever direction the game takes good luck to the people who are remaining, but it is total BS that you take out the function for me to voice my opinion by canceling because you take the accounting site down conveniently. As Mark Jacobs said about Warhammer, the best way for you to voice your displeasure with the direction of the game cancel your account. Well you people won't even let me do that. Total loss of all respect for this company and their product.
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:58:00 -
[2128]
If money is tight at CCP perhaps they should release their so called Economy expert* and hire a PR person. At least send a few devs to a local college PR class.
*I have nothing against the economy expert per se but so far we've seen like *1* quarterly report in the 4 quarters. Sounds like he isn't doing too much of his job if you ask me.
EVE is a really fantastic game IN SPITE of CCP's gaffes but I attribute that to the playerbase and the community more than CCP's 'balancing'..
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Larg Kellein
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:59:00 -
[2129]
Originally by: St Claus
Originally by: Larg Kellein Hmmm, several sides to this, in my opinion:
1) You really can't in any degree of good faith expect to receive a service you aren't paying for. Score one for CCP.
Yeah, but it has been possible for >5 years, right from the start (right?). No active account -> no training would be ok if it had been like that right from the start. Removing feature like that now just shows that CCP really doesn't give a sh*t.
Removing rights from your customers and expecting them to like it? That's probaply the reason why they are now calling it a bug, becouse no one like bugs and it is ok to remove em.
Eeehm... did you happen to read the rest of my post as well? You know, the part where I mention your specific grievance with my post, as well as claim that CCP have lost credibility with their reasoning for this change?
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Brother Welcome
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:59:00 -
[2130]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
Adding my vote to restore ghost-skilling.
My character is from early 2006. He was set up ridiculously badly (Amarr, high Charisma), but for the first year or so I enjoyed him a lot. Now he's faded a bit in fun, so I've been playing more intermittently.
As a father and with a busy job ghost-skilling kept me playing by letting me take short breaks to skill for new toys or edges, and come back to the game after feeling refreshed and reinterested.
-vk
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