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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:25:00 -
[2971]
I figured out why this thread is bugged though. With it accidentally hidden, eve search does not poll it for updates. A little convenient, hunh?
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
James Marshalll
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:26:00 -
[2972]
Originally by: Jinx Barker I posted the whole fiasco on my Blog, just for posterity reasons.
nice blog, the only thing I would change is to add in how the timing of this is very suspect considering they were just pushing the whole "Power of two" access deal right before announcing this change.
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The Slayer
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:29:00 -
[2973]
Hey I just had a thought, why was this not mentioned to or discussed by the CSM? Why were we not informed through the channels set up by yourself to allow two way communication to and from yourselves that this was going to happen? Why was this implemented suddenly and without warning?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:29:00 -
[2974]
I think the real issue at hand is that EVE has developed into a game that is largely driven by alt characters.
Especially scout alts, market alts, research alts, producer alts, cyno alts and capital alts.
Who would've thought a trend like multiple accounts powertraining towards one of those goals with as little effort/costs as possible would develop? And many of those additional accounts going into semi-stasis after the monthly costs went up considerably (For european players it was down to as low as 8Ç, through buying GTC's overseas. I don't know about american players)? Reducing costs on EVE accounts is also one aspect of powergaming.
Usage of alts should have been self-limiting right from the start. But this is mostly from a game-balance point of view, which I doubt is the main reason for the change (unfortunately & sadly).
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:31:00 -
[2975]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
Please Confirm or Deny that this change DOES give ample justification for the implementation of a skill queue given that it has removed what was perceived as the only roadblock.
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N3mMy1
Gallente Research and Cloning Services
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:34:00 -
[2976]
The more I read the angrier I get
Just bloody delete all chars that have not be active for the last 6 months will clear up alot of your DB.
So what if they lose stuff, it all belongs to CCP anyway.
The Avalanche of people offlining their accounts is due to the fact that CCP increase the prices of the GTC with the recent changes.
In the past 90day = 350million isk x 4 = 1.4 Billion a year Now 60 days GTC = 510 Million isk x 6 = 3.06 Billion a year
Pretty dramatic increase in isk cost.
What ever said, CCP need money to keep runing and I am all for the changes. But now I will just be forced to cut down the number of accounts I run. Which is suspect is what you guys plan on doing anyway.
Those of us paying sub for alt accounts with isk are apparently unwanted or desired by CCP.
Grrh....
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Erimisha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:34:00 -
[2977]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek I think the real issue at hand is that EVE has developed into a game that is largely driven by alt characters.
Especially scout alts, market alts, research alts, producer alts, cyno alts and capital alts.
Who would've thought a trend like multiple accounts powertraining towards one of those goals with as little effort/costs as possible would develop? And many of those additional accounts going into semi-stasis after the monthly costs went up considerably (For european players it was down to as low as 8Ç, through buying GTC's overseas. I don't know about american players)? Reducing costs on EVE accounts is also one aspect of powergaming.
Usage of alts should have been self-limiting right from the start. But this is mostly from a game-balance point of view, which I doubt is the main reason for the change (unfortunately & sadly).
Let's see..
Power of 2.. Increase of starter character SPs complete with multiple L5 skills right off the bat Power of 2 again.. and correct me if I'm wrong but Power of 2 for a 3rd time (just recently)..
Yep can't imagine who'd have been pushing for more alts on alt accounts.. nosiree..
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Betteroff Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:36:00 -
[2978]
Yeah, a skill queue would be a good addition to this bad deletion.
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matarkhan
Soldi di Protezione
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:40:00 -
[2979]
Originally by: Erimisha
It was known. It was promoted in official literature. It was 'fixed' once already on the Chinese server but left alone here--INTENTIONALLY.
And you still call it a 'bug'?
Let me guess. You've recently gotten a pretty decent downturn in subscriptions of 2nd, 3rd and even 4th+ alt accounts right? Perhaps 30-90 days after the GTC "fix" that drove prices to ridiculous levels? All at a time of global economic instability.
^This.
CSM - completely uninvolved, obviously, or someone would have pointed out that:
a) you're lying to us about this being a bug
b) it's plainly obvious to anyone who can read (your own marketing materials) that you're lying to us about it being a bug
c) you've got no respect for your customers, or you wouldn't simply assume that they're all illiterate morons.
Keep ****ing on your customers, it's doing wonders for you. Do you know why you have so many ghosting accounts right now? It's because people can't afford GTCs for them anymore. If those accounts can't be ghosted, they'll most likely be canceled.
It's like you're afraid of a revenue stream, so you keep building dams in front of it.
Icelandic logic or something?
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Bedrock
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:40:00 -
[2980]
page 99 snipa
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Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:42:00 -
[2981]
The funny thing is, if ccp would have come right out and said that they needed money, and then raised the subscription fee by $5 (or maybe even $10), I probably would have payed it and kept playing. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Betteroff Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:43:00 -
[2982]
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman The funny thing is, if ccp would have come right out and said that they needed money, and then raised the subscription fee by $5 (or maybe even $10), I probably would have payed it and kept playing.
That will be next...
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10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:45:00 -
[2983]
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Xavier Holtzman The funny thing is, if ccp would have come right out and said that they needed money, and then raised the subscription fee by $5 (or maybe even $10), I probably would have payed it and kept playing.
That will be next...
Right after this master plan drops subscriber rates.... Yep |
Dr Zakalwe
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:45:00 -
[2984]
Or they could get rid of the fishtank in their office.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:46:00 -
[2985]
hmmm yes based upon history and the way this was handled explained and "apologised" for ive come to the decision that my main will NOT be renewed this week as originaly planed instead and will remain that way baring some unforseen mayor owning up to mistakes from ccp
as for the lovely alt, that will run out on 03.12.2008 wich should let me whitness that thar winter expansion if i like what im seeing by then i shall return if not meh nobody will care and i get to find out how well that thing outside my window is rendered
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Circe Carpathia
Amarr Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:46:00 -
[2986]
Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
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Betteroff Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:53:00 -
[2987]
Originally by: Circe Carpathia Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
Yep, keep coming back; unlike so many others which just get deleted off of my hard drive.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:54:00 -
[2988]
Originally by: Circe Carpathia Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
Many of my friends are doing the same, many of them I actually helped to start EVE as complete noobs, and they are now have become excellently skilled, and really bloodthirsty he he he. But, all joking aside, many have said that they would probably not renew when the subs expire, I am probably the only idiot who is thinking of staying and weathering this storm from CCP yet again.
<<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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Circe Carpathia
Amarr Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:55:00 -
[2989]
Edited by: Circe Carpathia on 15/10/2008 02:56:33
Originally by: Betteroff Dead
Originally by: Circe Carpathia Well, after 5+ years of this. Training, going afk for a few months due to the game being boring or broke. It was always a nice FEATURE that was in eve. Guess since ive got 6 accounts inactive 1 going tomorrow, guess this is goodbye. 2 very known chars 80+ mil each. 2 60+ very known, and 2 industrial alts that were 60 and 80 mil. time to say goodbye. Been playing warhammer anyway. Much more fun, no blobs, no node crashes. and the game works. and they do what they say. They dont turn something that was in game forever into a bug that was just figured out 5+ years later.
Do u not understand, most of the people, myself included, take breaks cause we get bored and try other games. Guess what, we always come back and pay. Guess u will lose alot of people that do that. Oh well, guess having a client base of 2000 again will decrease the lag and be fun for most.
Yep, keep coming back; unlike so many others which just get deleted off of my hard drive.
Who says im coming back now. This is done for me. They have ruined the game and ****ed the majority fo the player base off now. I wouldnt be surprised to see this as a 2003 client base within 6 months. 2000-5000 max players.
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10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:55:00 -
[2990]
It is my understanding that a numbers cruncher convinced them that if less than 1/4 of their subscribers only revolts they will be able to compensate with the number of subscribers paying for accounts they will have to activate... So all you have to do is convince at least 1/4 of the subscribers to demand a reversal of this decision. |
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.15 02:59:00 -
[2991]
Originally by: 10of10 It is my understanding that a numbers cruncher convinced them that if less than 1/4 of their subscribers only revolts they will be able to compensate with the number of subscribers paying for accounts they will have to activate... So all you have to do is convince at least 1/4 of the subscribers to demand a reversal of this decision.
What? Where the hell is that coming from? I mean there was no slightest doubt that CCP is doing it for money, but as others have said, if they came out and said "We need money guys, we will increase subs by $5 US a month for 6 months to weather the financial Shitstorm that is overcoming Icelandic economy" I would not have thought twice about it. Take the extra 5 buks a month for 6 months, glad to be of help.
But to be so freaking underhanded, and so sneaky, and so mean spirited as to assume that we are all idiots, is really an insult. <<Click The Siggy For the Blog>>
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Lord Timelord
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:02:00 -
[2992]
Edited by: Lord Timelord on 15/10/2008 03:04:55 I am still waiting on a "Skill Que" system to be developed. Make it only usable on paying accounts, and allow the skills to be qued up as long as the account is in active status.
While you are at it... since I am PAYING for the account, it makes no damn difference if I change my skill training in game or from a website. You are still getting my money. So also make skill training changes via the website a reality as well!
Example: Someone pays for their subscription in Six Month Blocks. You could Que up skills all the way upto Six Months. When/If the account goes inactive, the characters skilltraining stops at the next server downtime.
Now get your programmers to work, and get this "demanded since the darn game came out" FEATURE into the darn game ASAP! __________
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Betteroff Dead
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:04:00 -
[2993]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: 10of10 It is my understanding that a numbers cruncher convinced them that if less than 1/4 of their subscribers only revolts they will be able to compensate with the number of subscribers paying for accounts they will have to activate... So all you have to do is convince at least 1/4 of the subscribers to demand a reversal of this decision.
What? Where the hell is that coming from? I mean there was no slightest doubt that CCP is doing it for money, but as others have said, if they came out and said "We need money guys, we will increase subs by $5 US a month for 6 months to weather the financial Shitstorm that is overcoming Icelandic economy" I would not have thought twice about it. Take the extra 5 buks a month for 6 months, glad to be of help.
But to be so freaking underhanded, and so sneaky, and so mean spirited as to assume that we are all idiots, is really an insult.
Be honest Jinx, we would ***** about the rate increase too. Just not as loud...
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10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:06:00 -
[2994]
the above will never happen.... They are a type of Drug dealer they will have to keep you logging in so as to keep you addicted. If you dont log in enough your dependency gets less and less. |
10of10
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:07:00 -
[2995]
Originally by: 10of10 the above will never happen.... They are a type of Drug dealer they will have to keep you logging in so as to keep you addicted. If you dont log in enough your dependency gets less and less.
Skill que. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:08:00 -
[2996]
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans The bug that became a feature
On Monday, we released news that we are disabling äGhost Trainingô, the ability to train characters on inactive accounts. This resulted in strong reactions from the community as many people were routinely making use of it. We explained the matter in more detail and pointed out that this had been a bug in the original game code. Those of us who were involved in the process of making the decision and communicating it to the community did not realize this bug had been so accepted as a feature that it was listed as such in our own documentation on our own website.
How can we not know whatæs in our own documentation? Well, to be frank, it was a case of insufficient communication on our part between various teams û a regrettable mistake and hard lesson to learn at the expense of the trust youæve placed in us. Thereæs no way to spin it and we wonæt add insult to injury by trying to do so. It was a mistake on our part and for that we sincerely and humbly apologize.
Many would hope that in light of this we will decide not to cancel ghost training and keep it active as an option but weære cannot to do that. EVE is already one-of-a-kind in allowing players to progress their characters through offline skill training. We stand by our policy that if you want your character to progress in EVE, you should pay the subscription fee. The fact that so many people have been able to do so for several years was our own oversight. We know this change, and our misstep in telling you about it, has created some discontent and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever for you will be evident as you enjoy the fruits of our labor.
Torfi
I realize the need to save corporate face in your apology and will choose to accept the intent of it. Thank you for that. I however believe you are making a mistake in your reasoning process- see I don't think people are abusing this intentionally but as a side effect of another business decision you made recently.
Removing the 30 day cards made it much harder for people to keep thier accounts all active on a budget, and I believe this is why so many accounts are currently inactive. I do not believe that the ghost train feature factors into most of these accountholders decision at all, rather an inability to afford keeping them all running at the now higher cost. Thus I believe your logic regarding what to do about it now is flawed.
If you persist on removing the ghost train feature, I can accept that- I never really cared about it's existance as much as the the poor way you were handling the removal decision. I hope you will consider these things:
1. Please bring back the 30day gtc. I feel this will actually fix a lot of the recent financial hit you've taken as some people will be able to have alts return to active state.
2. Push this change for 30 days. Basically give time for everyone struggling with thier own finances the time to figure out and adjust to this change in a manner that makes the best sense for them and for you.
3. Admit the financial hurt you are dealing with yourself- I swear, if you do this I will personally buy two etc and give them away as I do like the game (if not your handling of it from time to time) and would like to help, if only you'd just be honest about it.
4. As a give back to those still upset about this, either A. bring in skillqueue, or B. Allow slot 2 and slot 3 to train skills at a oh, let's say a 30% and 15% rate respectively.
I will be keeping an eye on things for a while before I make my final decision on reactivation as I have until May to decide either way. If you take some positive steps toward the community as atonement, I'll get back on board. If not, I'll shop around when the time comes.
Understand that at no point did I care about the feature's existance itself, just the poor handling of the subject. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Nate D
Trinity Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:10:00 -
[2997]
Edited by: Nate D on 15/10/2008 03:10:59 I think was CCP is seeing is a drop in subscriptions. Period. I don't believe that a change to a system that's been in the game for such a long time will have a positive effect. While I know of people who use this method of training... I know many more who pay monthly fees just to come online and switch skills. I think that there is a balance here.
This will cause a negative float in subscriptions.
Icelandic banks anyone?
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Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:11:00 -
[2998]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I figured out why this thread is bugged though. With it accidentally hidden, eve search does not poll it for updates. A little convenient, hunh?
It's not a bug, it's an unintended feature!
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Shinzann
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:13:00 -
[2999]
In the years I've been playing this, I've going ghost trained twice. Once by accident when I forgot when a GTC expired. The other intentionally because of RL issues.
I'll miss that feature/bug, but I'm not planning on canceling my 2 accounts because of this.
What annoys me though are how CCP suddenly decided to spring this on us with a two day warning and the rather "interesting" ways of explaining themselves. This might make me rethink my decision not to cancel 1 or 2 of my accounts.
What I'm really really curious about are two things:
1. Why now? Why didn't you axe the feature/bug back when it was axed on Serenity? The truth would be greatly appreciated.
2. Are you going to implement that Skill queue feature?
That's my 0.02 ISK (0.000210165 CAD)
=== Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Ice Dragons
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Posted - 2008.10.15 03:14:00 -
[3000]
Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:19:11 Edited by: Ice Dragons on 15/10/2008 03:14:03 Page 100 Get!!!!!!!
Edit:
Crap ; [
LOL
And on a side note, please oh pretty please, I was so looking forward to training up to fly the new High sec Ore Capital ship!!!
My master will move me to a bad place where I will only slave away at his whim and not train towards my dream.... *sob* *sob*
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