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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Katarina Arisdeed
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:27:00 -
[721]
While I personally support the idea of getting rid of ghost training I do think that it could have been announce and handled a little bit better, if for example CCP has announce the skill queue as a segue into stopping ghost training then I dont think it would have recived this much of an outcry, I think most people would have gladly accepted the trade off if it were made to seem like that was the case.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:27:00 -
[722]
Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:29:39
Originally by: Tizoca You pay, you play, you don't, you get nothing. Same formula used by every other subscription game out there. Seriously - what character advancements to WoW, CoH, AoC, and the others give you while you aren't paying on your account? Heck, they don't even give you anything if you aren't ONLINE, which Eve does. I guess I just don't understand the hate being displayed here. I can see why some people would be disappointed at how it was handled, but the level of malice shocks me.
And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
"I don't understand why people are upset that a feature they bought a game expecting is being taken away capriciously and under false premises. I see nothing wrong with this. I don't work for CCP, so I must be a huge ignoramus- it's the only other option."
Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter. Hence our suspicion when one of our own sides with the corporate sheisters over their fellow players.
If Eve promises to give me 3 apples and then takes two away, I don't give a shit that WoW and DaoC or whatever only gives 1 apple to begin with...I want the 3 apples that I paid for. Period!
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MataSanos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:28:00 -
[723]
Edited by: MataSanos on 14/10/2008 03:28:28
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
Mind posting with your main? You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
bob alt this is good for bob(other old alliance) that all this years used this ghost training to get capital pilots on alt accounts and now new players have to pay for that is not fair
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Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:30:00 -
[724]
Last year March EVE had 42.711 players logged in. Since then CCP have been losing (logged in) players. Whether this means more and more people are resorting to ghost training is unknown to me but it's obvious CCP have been losing money. Then the link provided to the current situation in Iceland says this.
Reposted Link
"Iceland is crippled with debt and giving UK depositors their funds may depend on the country securing emergency loans from other countries or the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
Its debt is an estimated about ú50bn, which is five times the total annual income of the country."
HOLY JESUS CHRITS!!! I thought the US was in bad shape, Iceland is bankrupt 5 times over! Iceland is going to replace Albania as Europes poorest country?
I have five accounts and pay for a sixth. I am addicted to EVE and will shamelessly admit it. I am, however, no fan of CCP as I see CCP as a Sony-like company who will do whatever it takes to squeeze money out of their players. I have always paid for my subscriptions to keep them training eventhough I could have let the payments slide and make use of Ghost Training. I don't see it as honourable and I am using a service and would like to pay for it. So, I do understand this move but to say it's a bug! That is nothing more than a blatant lie and that even angers me because do you really think we're all ******ed fanboi's who will accept whatever you say as gospel and will bend over like the AOC fanboi's who claimed the game was great eventhough the game crashed every few minutes?
And then you attempt to prohibit us from talking about the game? No need for us to do it, you have done more harm to the game by lying than any of us possibly could. Keep deleting threads and posts, though, it's the only thing you can do until there's nobody left. Farjung is my God
You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:31:00 -
[725]
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
They're certainly not the only one who understands and agrees with this change.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:31:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Liranan Last year March EVE had 42.711 players logged in. Since then CCP have been losing (logged in) players. Whether this means more and more people are resorting to ghost training is unknown to me but it's obvious CCP have been losing money. Then the link provided to the current situation in Iceland says this.
It is more likely that players are simply setting a long skill and saving a bit of money. This was OK when times were fat but now that they are lean, CCP is nervous. I cannot blame them, but I urge them to remember that a returning customer is the best customer. You do not have to find him, and he already likes you. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[727]
yeah when are we hearing the reponse to the player guide description hmm? I'm rather sure false advertising is a crime. ________________________________________
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The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[728]
Edited by: The Ubernomicon on 14/10/2008 03:33:48 Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense.
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
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shuckstar
Gallente Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[729]
Originally by: Carsidava Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
QFT
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myrtarous
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:32:00 -
[730]
Lapsing my characters has been my favorite feature of eve. I've always said so, and I use it as a major selling point when getting friends to sign up.
3 of my 5 accounts will not resubscribe and the characters will not sell or transfer.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:33:00 -
[731]
Originally by: Fader Bane yeah when are we hearing the reponse to the player guide description hmm? I'm rather sure false advertising is a crime.
It is not illegal to change your mind. But why do they have to act like they have never heard of this practice before? Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Xero Hour
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:34:00 -
[732]
Been playing since 2004, but this shit is too much.
---Two more accounts--- Subscription Status: Cancelled -----------------------
If CCP reconsiders then so shall I.
That is all.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:34:00 -
[733]
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
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Andrua
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:36:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
They're certainly not the only one who understands and agrees with this change.
There is nothing wrong with understanding this change and agreeing to this change.
It is fundamentally wrong how CCP introduced this change. And they introduced in a manner that cannot state any more clearly that CCP has very little respect for players as sentient beings. Which, in my opinion, sparked much more outrage than the change itself.
Now, it its not that difficult to work out where such respect for players can lead EVE. And this is what really concerned me, since EVE by it's nature demands significant subscription commitment.
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Jesters Knight
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:36:00 -
[735]
Edited by: Jesters Knight on 14/10/2008 03:40:57 CCP would have been better off fixing bugs so that people want to play, not the one that makes them want to come back dispite there crappy bugs.
-4 accounts
(and no, you cant have my stuff, I already have someone who i am going to sell stuff to cheap if I do. hey, i may want to come back someday but i highly doubt it)
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:37:00 -
[736]
Originally by: Lhyda Souljacker
Originally by: Tizoca And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
Mind posting with your main? You seem to be the only person really posting for this change.
*sigh* I have no problem at all posting with my main, other than the forums seem to have gotten the idea that Tizoca is my main for some reason, and if I don't remember to switch...
Beyond that...I'm not hugely for, though I'm definitely not against, as the fact that some people ghost train for large stretches bugs me. One, I'm still paying like a good little customer and two, that it is one more unfair advantage for older accounts.
What I'm really getting angry about is the sheer number of people that are acting like CCP is just out to get them, or trying to ruin their gameplay. Guess what? They're a business, and they can't afford to give out freebies any more. I wish people would stop acting like CCP has taken away something they (the players) are entitled to, especially people that are maintaining 5 or more accounts for some reason. I have two, plan to get a third, and will keep them all sub'ed so I can actually train and use them. If I can't afford to, then I'll let one go without whining because it won't get freebies while I'm not paying.
In short - people whining and playing victim is getting old, fast.
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Skut Farkuss
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:37:00 -
[737]
Originally by: Trupplupagus Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:29:39
Originally by: Tizoca You pay, you play, you don't, you get nothing. Same formula used by every other subscription game out there. Seriously - what character advancements to WoW, CoH, AoC, and the others give you while you aren't paying on your account? Heck, they don't even give you anything if you aren't ONLINE, which Eve does. I guess I just don't understand the hate being displayed here. I can see why some people would be disappointed at how it was handled, but the level of malice shocks me.
And no, I don't work for CCP. Mature people realize that not everyone has to agree with them, and those who disagree just may be doing it without getting paid to.
"I don't understand why people are upset that a feature they bought a game expecting is being taken away capriciously and under false premises. I see nothing wrong with this. I don't work for CCP, so I must be a huge ignoramus- it's the only other option."
Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter. Hence our suspicion when one of our own sides with the corporate sheisters over their fellow players.
If Eve promises to give me 3 apples and then takes two away, I don't give a shit that WoW and DaoC or whatever only gives 1 apple to begin with...I want the 3 apples that I paid for. Period!
quotin' this for the traitors who somehow want CCP to win out over their corpmates and peers
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:38:00 -
[738]
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.
Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.
I don't see why they wouldn't and am frankly surprised that it took them this long. The only opposition I'm hearing is "HEY! I WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT YOU BASTARDS!" which I hardly consider worthy of consideration.
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:38:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Triksterism LOOK @ THE CHART!
Steady until now. Can't wait to see what happens to the chart in a week to a month.
I want to see the chart on ghost skilling that shows this "surge" and compare it to past "Power Of Two" promotions and the life of the game overall.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:39:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Jesters Knight CCP would have been better off fixing bugs so that people want to play, not the one that makes them want to come back dispite there crappy bugs.
-4 accounts
(and no, you cant have my stuff, I already have someone who i am going to sell stuff to cheap if I do. hey, i may want to come back someday but i highly coubt it)
I have several accounts, I usually keep 3 subbed at any given time. I'm gonna wait for a while and see how CCP react to this uproar.
I'll decide whether its worth paying money to a company that I thought was different, or whether I'd be better off waiting to see if Infinity gets published.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:40:00 -
[741]
Edited by: P''uck on 14/10/2008 03:42:28 Alright I LOVE eve. It makes me come up with nerd jokes.
The first one I got I thought of months ago: What's a tackler without a scram? -It's pointless!
And another one, JUST now: What's the difference between Microsoft and CCP MS: "It's not a bug, it's a feature" CCP: "It's not a feature, it's a bug!"
But once again, screw you CCP. I've been a fan of this game and the people who made it for years. But right now, you guys suck big time. First you treat us like idiots and then you proceed to exercise some perverted form of damage control that isn't really better than the first screwup.
edit: oh and something else, I doubt somebody that matters will read it, but I can at least try; get your act together before you kill off eve. I really would hate to see it die.
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Trupplupagus
Settling Tank
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:40:00 -
[742]
Edited by: Trupplupagus on 14/10/2008 03:41:48
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.
Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.
I don't see why they wouldn't and am frankly surprised that it took them this long. The only opposition I'm hearing is "HEY! I WAS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT YOU BASTARDS!" which I hardly consider worthy of consideration.
It's a feature used to sell the game, they aren't 'getting around to fixing it' after 5 years, that's idiotic, and finally, those people simply get a few days additional training. They don't have the money, rep, ships, or interpersonal connections that an active player has. On top of that, it's a wonderful feature for casual players to stay interested and to bring new players to the game.
There's very little harm to you or to CCP in keeping it, and much in getting rid of it.
Hell yes, I was 'taking advantage of' that feature that I knew I was getting when I signed up for the game...as well I should have.
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FemmeFatal
Control Theory
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:41:00 -
[743]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
I was under the impression that CCP paid employees in ISK which is currently equivalent to shit but collects USD and Euros, so unless they have reacted by giving employees massive raises they should be making additional profit. The ISK collapse is pricing their Icelanding employees on par with outsourcing computer work to India, except without having to actually move anything.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:42:00 -
[744]
Originally by: P'uck Alright I LOVE eve. It makes me come up with nerd jokes.
oh god please never speak of this again Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:42:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Trupplupagus Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.
Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.
Accidental or not, it was advertised as a feature.
How about showing me another game (a proper one) with real time skill training. And then show me how many people actually play it.
the only reason people get by with eve's skill training system is the fact that you could train out of subscription.
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Stretchmeat Crotchquake
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:42:00 -
[746]
So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:43:00 -
[747]
So, in this thread, CCP says that itÆs not fair to CCP as a service provider to have to support people who arenÆt paying them active subscriptions on all training characters.
As if the people who are æghost trainingÆ are cheating CCP out of money, making them go hungry. ThatÆs what Torfi is saying.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
As a matter of fact, the exact opposite is true.
CCP as a company provides less service and less content than almost any other mmorpg company out there, while trying to squeeze MORE in subscriptions on a per player basis, out of the players.
Did you notice how tiny that last patch was? Did you even see how ridiculously small that æexpansionÆ was in your hard drive? Does anyone really recognize how paper thin their content really is? You donÆt pay for content. You pay for a sandbox to play in. Game is out 5.5 years and the game is only 3Gigs on my harddrive and they have the audacity to tell me theyÆre working hard on improving the game while getting paid too little? Ok, ok, back to the ghost training thing.
This change is a shameless money grab that will lose them existing customers and deter newer players from taking up the game.
Alts are integral to any mmorpg. Some people are happy with one character, but almost all serious players in almost all mmorpgs have more than one character.
I mean fully functioning alts, not a 1 hour shake-n-bake hauler alt.
Example: You play all the time and enjoy the 0.0 end game and one of your characters is dedicated to fighting for one of the big coalitions, butà you want to enjoy other aspects of the game, and play with friends who are not in one of the big end game coalitions, so you have another alt with which you might try out FW or piracy or anti-piracy or industry, or merc life, or whatever.
Nobody in their right mind pays for more than one account to have alts in other games. Sure, rare people do, but in other games itÆs just not necessary, because one account and one subscription accommodates several characters.
Eve is one of those bizarre places where people live in complete denial about many things, and the scam with regard to forcing payment on multiple accounts is one giant squid in the room that nobody talks about.
For me, until now, I could try to keep the price of two characters down by ghost training one while playing the other. That still left Eve inferior to other games with respect cost for services, because I was forced to leave one character inactive at a time, while in other games I could play any alt I wanted whenever I wanted. I know I was being cheated, but I lived with it to play Eve and be with friends.
Ending ghost training is just over the top. That, I cannot live with.
CCP is cheating players out of money, and on top of it, insulting us further by lieing about.
Continued in my next post right belowà.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:44:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake So how long until they fix that bug that lets you train skills even when you're logged off? No other MMO lets me do this!
holy crap that is a great name Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:44:00 -
[749]
An official stated reason for the change, given in the other sticky, is.. ôThis practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.ö
Pardon me CCP, but the game is going on five and a half years old. If there was a grave imbalance, people would have written about it. On the contrary, not only were there essentially no people complaining about it earlier, but currently players hate this change. You are not doing this for the players, youÆre doing this to cheat them out of more money. Everyone sees that.
LetÆs look at the substance of the stated reason for this change. Can you imagine the balls the CCP CEO has to have in order to have a spokesman say the above. The stated reason is because they want to have players work on their characters rather than get æfreeÆ advancement? Um, pink elephant in the room, squid in the room, hey, bloody dagger in the back, HELLO! YOU HAVE A FOUM WHERE ANYONE WITH REAL MONEY CAN, WITHIN THE EULA, BUY AS MUCH IN GAME CURRENCY AS THEY WANT AND BUY A CHARACTER 5 YEARS MORE ADVANCED IF THEY WANT. With enough cash, I can legally by game rules buy a titan and a titan pilot. And yet you, CCP, have the balls to say that youÆre curtailing ghost training to even things between people who æworkÆ in game for their progress and those who donÆt? Shame on you for the repulsive, translucent dishonesty and avarice.
On the topic of RMT, real cash for in game advancement, some people excuse the forced payment for multiple accounts to skill up more than one character by saying that itÆs not so bad when you can pay for GTCs, play time, with in game currency. It has always baffled me why people in Eve hate gold farmers so vehemently, while at the same time condone CCP making their own player base into gold farmers. What else would you call it when a game has some players earn in game currency by working in game, while others pay real cash for that in game currency, and the gaming company taking a cut. I donÆt care if you do it on the CCP official site, or if you do it on the black market, if you earn isk and you sell it for real life cash, you are a gold farmer. Am I saying that people who buy and sell gold are evil? No, not at all. IÆm not taking sides on that issue. IÆm not here to argue for or against RMT, IÆm NOT. IÆm not here to argue for or against gold farming or character trade or anything. IÆm NOT. My point is just to say that itÆs the height of hypocrisy for CCP to maintain theyÆre going for æfairÆ with regard to work and player advancement, and the height of denial for players to maintain CCP isnÆt using them as gold farmers. If you have a second or third account, and you pay for it with isk for GTC, and youÆre happy, then great, fantastic, wonderful, IÆm happy for you. Still, neither you, nor CCP can deny that essentially, youÆre paying for that account by gold farming for CCP. If youÆre happy, IÆm happy, but donÆt tell me itÆs not gold farming for CCP, because it is.
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Haldane Fisher
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:44:00 -
[750]
Originally by: FemmeFatal
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: The Ubernomicon Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011
Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."
What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.
So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?
I was under the impression that CCP paid employees in ISK which is currently equivalent to shit but collects USD and Euros, so unless they have reacted by giving employees massive raises they should be making additional profit. The ISK collapse is pricing their Icelanding employees on par with outsourcing computer work to India, except without having to actually move anything.
But Helmar and co have doubtless large fat wad mortgages to pay on their mansions and "escorts". That needs cash.
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