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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
32
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:47:00 -
[691] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Andski wrote: So CCP is reverting the CSM back to a useless PR/marketing tool rather than a player advocacy group. Cool beans.
no they just axed the one guy who broke the rule (by his own words ) and go on bussiness as usual there was no outcry when they axed the dutch girl for ?NDA? No, they let the CSM come to consensus on the issue then overruled them when they made the "wrong" decision. For the CSM to have any legitimacy other than a PR tool CCP need to either respect their decisions or make it adequately clear a decision is not theirs to make. Not this worst of both worlds crap.
it was always clear to someone with half a brain that no CEO in the whole world wil let his desicions be overuled by a bunch of internet spaceship nerds
internet spaceship may be serious business but RL business is more serious CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
Veilo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:48:00 -
[692] - Quote
Dear CCP
I respect your decision to interpret the EULA/TOS as applicable to out of game events.
However if you stand by this decision then I would like to have my vote back thanks.
I am so mad right now, my brother died as a child soldier in africa so the issue of democracy and justice is very close to my heart, if you don't respect this then I will not-figuratively kill myself.
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Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putain
Remanaquie Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:49:00 -
[693] - Quote
Two step wrote:I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.
More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page
If I were you I'd resign in protest.
Getting a bit annoying to see the people bringing up the 10k votes all the time. Yes he got them but if you'd repeat the vote after this I'd love to know how many he'd keep.
However, kudos to Gianturco for maning up and making it clear his drunkenness wasn't a valid excuse, I actually liked that. And on that note the Goonie tears will make an awesome presentation for next year's FF. Keep'em cumin you drunken bees. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
255
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:50:00 -
[694] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Kalunmaar wrote:If our votes are going to count for nothing, why hold an election in the first place? Exactly !!! With 10,000 votes out of how many account holders? It seems that most subscribers care absolutely nothing at all about the CSM. Just get rid of it already...
Don't be a moron...
The CSM has been enormously beneficial to the player base as a whole. It has also been a tremendous PR boost for CCP.
There were 60k votes cast in this election, which represents more accounts than have EVER been online simultaneously. While this is less than 20% of the total accounts, its hardly an inconsequential number. The CSM is here to stay, and if they remove it, they will see a **** storm the likes of which will bury CCP...
Finally... Reinstate Mittani to CSM7.... his removal is out of line!!!! |
Flette
Rosen Association
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:50:00 -
[695] - Quote
Viktor Villiance wrote:Flette wrote:
So, assuming CCP has already changed the name of this character, then what? The character is some 11 billion isk richer, and can then go in peace with a new name.
Your thinly veiled rant is just that.
Nope. They haven't. And any special treatment CCP gives to him sets a dangerous precedent for developer->customer/player interactions. If they think the gaming media is shitstorming them over this, just wait till the media gets a hold of another T20-esque incident (special treatment of players by staff). I won't even get into the legal ramifications they just exposed themselves to by policing player interactions out of game. Yeee-ouch. But sure, strawman my point. It's cool.
Well, you didn't have a point really, All I saw was "wah, CCP is mean" Put bluntly, they can change his name anytime they want without any shitstorm or even murmur as a result of a cyber-bullying action, or just plain bullyiing action.
And, oh, the 11 billion isk? That wasn't given to him by CCP...
lol
BTW, the only "The WIz" i see, looks like he hasn't logged in in a while. I could be wrong though. I don't think it's too far out to assume they have changed the character's name, and slipped in another character with the previous name to catch those who might continue this bullying trend. That is speculation however.. |
Ustrello
Mindstar Technology Executive Outcomes
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:51:00 -
[696] - Quote
Navigator you know what you should do...? go to a bridge with a very long drop this is important ok? Then I want you to go skill yourself up and get a t2 thrasher |
Kitty Vintner
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:53:00 -
[697] - Quote
Vladimir Vladimirovitch Putain wrote: Getting a bit annoying to see the people bringing up the 10k votes all the time. Yes he got them but if you'd repeat the vote after this I'd love to know how many he'd keep.
About 10,000. |
REDBIERD
Space Gear Productions
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:54:00 -
[698] - Quote
Quote:no they just axed the one guy who broke the rule (by his own words ) and go on bussiness as usual
there was no outcry when they axed the dutch girl for ?NDA?
No, they let the CSM come to consensus on the issue then overruled them when they made the "wrong" decision. For the CSM to have any legitimacy other than a PR tool CCP need to either respect their decisions or make it adequately clear a decision is not theirs to make. Not this worst of both worlds crap.
Hell, even acknowledging that "The CSM was consulted, but we felt that their response did not go far enough" would be a bit nicer
~ Yeah but its CCP's job to decide when a player commits a breach of TOS; it isn't left up to the CSM to decide who stays or who goes. How can he be an effective Chairman or CSM member if he's out of the game for the first 30-days of term ?
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Flette
Rosen Association
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:54:00 -
[699] - Quote
Veilo wrote:Dear CCP
I respect your decision to interpret the EULA/TOS as applicable to out of game events.
However if you stand by this decision then I would like to have my vote back thanks.
I am so mad right now, my brother died as a child soldier in africa so the issue of democracy and justice is very close to my heart, if you don't respect this then I will not-figuratively kill myself.
Your vote counted. You voted in someone who resigned. Take it up with the representative.
This happens all the time IRL, and they don't do the election over. |
Bibosikus
Inside out. The G0dfathers
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:55:00 -
[700] - Quote
So CCP step up, in a timely fashion, and deliver a sharp shock. They've taken definitive action, performed damage limitation, assuaged the indignant, and outraged the bees (meh).
Mittens will be back in 30 days, and next year running for CSM8 no doubt.
Jita will burn, and frankly I'll come watch.
All in all, a very very good day.
Well done, CCP.
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
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Swearte Widfarend
Mortis Noir. Ineluctable.
60
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:55:00 -
[701] - Quote
Raiykjab wrote:Two step wrote:I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.
More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page This just show the integrity of the ppl representing us at CSM, 10058 yeah sure, we all know those guys probably voted with their 5 accounts. Bill Clinton was also elected by a majority, but kinda resigned after the sex scandal, same for DSK the boss of the FMI, this dude was favorite for the next French presidentials and now is a nobody. If you represent something and are given powers you gotta show the exemple, or you are out, that's how it works in a democracy. Seeing so many CSM members objecting about the decision is quiet disturbing, and just prove that I should get myself more accounts the next time I go vote to make it count. Honestly yours Raiykjab
You can't add, can you?
Even if ever single character in Goonswarm were an individual account, that is barely 7,000. And if you think every character in Goonswarm is an individual account, I've got a great bridge to sell you in Tuscon, Arizona, with a nice ocean view. CCP is changing ship skill trees. How ship skills should be |
Damion Rayne
Dark-Rising
62
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:56:00 -
[702] - Quote
Gotta love the goons, you people are so full of immaturity. cheating, lying, and down right hatred..and not in game mind you, that not a single one of you deserve to sit there and ***** and moan about CCP's decision.
Grow the hell up you children. Mittens deserves this, you don't like it? Leave Eve. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
Raiykjab
Federal Navy Academy
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:56:00 -
[703] - Quote
Andski wrote:1) 5 accounts are 5 accounts - they are paid for.
You make a point
... oh wait
Andski wrote:2) Bill Clinton served two full terms, he did not resign.
Ok lucky me I mentionned the DSK case, not the first nor the last.
Andski wrote:3) CSM members object to their opinions being discarded and CCP throwing their chairman under the bus.
You forgot to add "Some" before CSM, would have really sucked if they all objected CCP's decision Eve has miners?! |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:58:00 -
[704] - Quote
seriously you guys who keep separating in-game and out-of-game and try to defend for unacceptable behaviour just need to stop.
Yes it's a game, but doesn't mean cyber-bullying + real life references and impacts are allowed.
CCP said themselves "The line is crossed"
In a decently minded mature adult's view "The line is crossed"
stop separating one issue into multiple, you all know why there are more people diagnoized with dual / multiple personality nowadays? I bet most of you don't if you have to find courage and confidence in a video game where it is lacking in RL. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:58:00 -
[705] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Doc Severide wrote:Kalunmaar wrote:If our votes are going to count for nothing, why hold an election in the first place? Exactly !!! With 10,000 votes out of how many account holders? It seems that most subscribers care absolutely nothing at all about the CSM. Just get rid of it already... Don't be a moron... The CSM has been enormously beneficial to the player base as a whole. It has also been a tremendous PR boost for CCP. There were 60k votes cast in this election, which represents more accounts than have EVER been online simultaneously. While this is less than 20% of the total accounts, its hardly an inconsequential number. The CSM is here to stay, and if they remove it, they will see a **** storm the likes of which will bury CCP... Like more fools out shooting the Jita monument? I don't believe for a minute that the CSM is beneficial to anything except getting a free trip to Iceland to get drunk once a year...
And as a paying subscriber I am perfectly in my right to have my opinions regardless of the disagreeing mobs who cannot respond without name calling and idiotic threats of "Destroying EVE".
Bunch of children....
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IsTheOpOver
88
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:59:00 -
[706] - Quote
Andski wrote:Angelus X wrote:lmao 10,000 accounts about to be unsubbed eh, CCP must be scareeeeee $150,000+ in monthly subscriptions alone is certainly no big deal
A world without goons?
Good job CCP.. although it was the only decision you could make. Well I guess you could have given him a perma-ban.
Andski how does it feel to not be able to unsub quicker than that?
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Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:59:00 -
[707] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Raiykjab wrote:Two step wrote:I disagree with this decision, and am working hard with CCP to make sure the 10,058 voters that voted for Alex have their voice heard.
More to come, just wanted to make sure I had a spot on the first page This just show the integrity of the ppl representing us at CSM, 10058 yeah sure, we all know those guys probably voted with their 5 accounts. Bill Clinton was also elected by a majority, but kinda resigned after the sex scandal, same for DSK the boss of the FMI, this dude was favorite for the next French presidentials and now is a nobody. If you represent something and are given powers you gotta show the exemple, or you are out, that's how it works in a democracy. Seeing so many CSM members objecting about the decision is quiet disturbing, and just prove that I should get myself more accounts the next time I go vote to make it count. Honestly yours Raiykjab You can't add, can you? Even if ever single character in Goonswarm were an individual account, that is barely 7,000. And if you think every character in Goonswarm is an individual account, I've got a great bridge to sell you in Tuscon, Arizona, with a nice ocean view.
than again how many goons have multiple accounts and test and whoever kisses up to you these days
CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
223
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:00:00 -
[708] - Quote
The Mittani was good for EVE. He knew what the game was and how it was different and what made it so good.I hope, after his 30 days are up, that he can reconcile with CCP and get back into that chair.
The real shame of all this is that the back lash is i na form of players crying for less war and greif. It could not have come at a worse time with Inferno around the corner. Last thing we want now is some kind of knee-jerk decision that puts the fire out before it even gets going, so to speak.
War is upon the citizens of New Eden, whether they like it or not. This is the way of EVE. . |
paradigmblue
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:05:00 -
[709] - Quote
Alex's words at the alliance panel were regrettable, and it is understandable for CCP to be especially sensitive to possible PR problems with Dust 514 close to release. I, like many others, was troubled by his comments. This firestorm needed to be dealt with, in one way or another.
To his credit, Alex, on his own volition, made a sincere public and private apology, both to EVE players as a whole and to the victim. Additionally, he made restitution to the victim and stepped down from the Chairman position, forfeiting his coveted position as the face of the CSM. Having met Alex several times out of the game, these apologies rang true to me, and his sincerity and candor are admirable.
With these actions, the firestorm was abated, and with a little time, the controversy would have died out, as it should have. We all have made mistakes before, but most realize that it is how we handle those mistakes that is important, and Alex owned up completely to his lapse in judgement. You'll notice that he made no excuses for his inebriation (from alcohol provided by CCP), and did not ask CCP to share the blame (even though the content of his presentation- including the unfortunate slide which prompted this controversy - was vetted by CCP).
This story could have ended with Alex's sincere apology, and would have faded with the next news cycle from the gaming press. Instead, CCP has taken the last, dying embers from this firestorm, and tossed gasoline on them. If they wanted this story to not gain any more traction in the gaming press, banning The Mittani in game for Alex's verbal misteps was exactly the wrong course of action to take. Moreover, while I am sure they acted with the best of intentions, by lumping more punishments on to those that Alex undertook voluntarily, the outcome seems not only excessive, but vindictive.
I am disappointed and saddened by CCP's response to the issue, and I hope that they will take a step back and reconsider the implications and intent of their actions. |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
34
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:05:00 -
[710] - Quote
Quote: words from paradigmblue
i feel bad for ccp .. all they wantet is DUST EVE interaction all over the press after FF
all they got was a drunken guy that couldnot handle himself ....
edit wrong quoting CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
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Max Wager
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:05:00 -
[711] - Quote
Democracy at its finest I see. Fortunately, I have plenty of experience with my votes being worthless. |
Taihbea
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:09:00 -
[712] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?
If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later. That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations. And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.
This is why you are not one of them. Shortsighted, not really clever and far from smart! They are not there to fall behind some frat tool. They are there to make this game better! |
Megalift
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2
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Posted - 2012.03.29 02:13:00 -
[713] - Quote
We all can see who has the power here. 10,000 player votes vs CSM vs CCP. Today is the beginning of the end for Eve. |
ceaon
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:15:00 -
[714] - Quote
i really want to know from a legal point of view how CCP extend EvE EULA to real life
what kind of legal magic you need in order to do this ?
tia looking for a coder to do this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=711072 |
Flette
Rosen Association
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:17:00 -
[715] - Quote
Megalift wrote:We all can see who has the power here. 10,000 player votes vs CSM vs CCP. Today is the beginning of the end for Eve.
Because of the Mittani.
In all seroiusness, CCP has all the power. Always has. Always will. What else did you think?
Oh, and for the record, this is how it should be. CCP is a business. Their motivation to make profit is known. What is the Mittani's motivation? With this single presentation he has brought an awful lot of damage to the game we all play. CCP did not do this. |
Taihbea
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:17:00 -
[716] - Quote
Megalift wrote:We all can see who has the power here. 10,000 player votes vs CSM vs CCP. Today is the beginning of the end for Eve. And you just woke up naked and touching yourself...
Dude. Goons can quit and war for their region will fuel up eve to some nasty temps. Nobody gives a **** about a bunch of whiney noobs If they leave it's going to be awesome. Big null space to fill! |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
224
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:18:00 -
[717] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:
i feel bad for ccp .. all they wantet is DUST EVE interaction all over the press after FF
all they got was a drunken guy that couldnot handle himself ....
edit wrong quoting
That's CCP's own dumb fault for letting players get really drunk and be on stage. It's like they were thinking "LOL if the players are drunk on stage it will be wacky and funny".... and each year people seem to try and out-do each other by being more drunk.
Something like this was bound to happen. To be honest every year I watch fanfest waiting for the moment bitter rivals punch it out on stage or spit something like this because they're too drunk to know better.
I don't like someone being cyber-bullied one bit but at the same time I'd hate to watch EVE ruin itself by sticking play pens up all over the place as a result of this. . |
Viktor Villiance
The Milkmen Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2012.03.29 02:21:00 -
[718] - Quote
Flette wrote:
Well, you didn't have a point really, All I saw was "wah, CCP is mean" Put bluntly, they can change his name anytime they want without any shitstorm or even murmur as a result of a cyber-bullying action, or just plain bullyiing action.
And, oh, the 11 billion isk? That wasn't given to him by CCP...
lol
BTW, the only "The WIz" i see, looks like he hasn't logged in in a while. I could be wrong though. I don't think it's too far out to assume they have changed the character's name, and slipped in another character with the previous name to catch those who might continue this bullying trend. That is speculation however..
Oh, my bad. You're a publord and need education, badly. His name isn't "the wiz", but that's okay.
They haven't changed his name and he was recently blown up in game actually.
Your speculation is like your knowledge, I see. But hey, be more buttmad at goons/mittani, whatever. Doesn't mean that its fair for CCP to literally beg a bunch of self-righteous, "wronged" nerds to grief him into oblivion by taking down a figurehead. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3808
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:23:00 -
[719] - Quote
Raiykjab wrote:You forgot to add "Some" before CSM, would have really sucked if they all objected CCP's decision
Oh alright I forgot that Darius III and Issler are all for this, I forget how important they are for the CSM "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Meno Theaetetus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:23:00 -
[720] - Quote
The real issue here has little to do with cyber bullying, anyone that genuinely believes that Mittens wanted someone to kill themselves is either socially backwards or are lying to promote their own agenda.
What happened during that alliance panel was Mittens gave the wider press, namely SONY's media people a glimpse into the game SONY are buying into that CCP had rather them not see.
A HUGE part of the eve online that cements it 's niche position and success over the years is the meta game, the back stabbing, the theft, the scamming. If your average jita scammer gave the money back every time some dude said his wife had left them, or that they were feeling suicidal, you would not be able to continue that style of play.
You may say, good! We don't want scammers and thieves, and that's your prerogative. However what can't be denied is that for years eve online has been played by and continues to be played by thousands of people that play the game mainly to do this.
The simple fact remains, in a game like WOW, or any other game, bread and butter scamming like that which goes on everyday in eve would be considered in poor taste, perhaps not cyber bullying, but more than likely something SONY would want to distance themselves from.
It's just unfortunate that Mittens brought this to the attention of people like the SONY media reps, what we have to worry about is just how far CCP is willing to bend, next time SONY come leaning. |
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