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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ghoest
280
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Posted - 2012.03.26 13:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its been explained before that the mechanics of the election system make the CSM unrepresentative of the averge EVE player.
Its has also been explained that the structure of the CSM promotes biased input that not only favor particular types of gamers based on playstyle but even particular factions based on in game politics.
And now the CSM is just simply embarrassing.
Its really time to kill it.
Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
271
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Posted - 2012.03.26 13:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
CSM is representative of those who vote. Now thats much better than representative of those who do not care. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
2902
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote. or are they... da da da daaaaaaa
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Florian Bao
JinJing Trade Consortium
0
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Are you going to kill yourself if they dont? |
Karadion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
529
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh look another pubbie alt that's bad at eve online and didn't get his choice elected (Xenuria). We were so close to dickgirls, guys! |
Ben Arwhal
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Supernoob posting again, confirming that my candidate made the top 7.
I got nothing to ***** about, so instead I post super-upbeat posts in the midst of bitching threads!
Edit: Can't even say b i t c h?
Goddamn. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
446
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote.
Incorrect. CSM is representative of the largest power blocs of corporations/alliances which != "of those who vote". The voters from the largest power blocs have obvious self-interests to vote in support of those power blocs, not necessarily for the best interest of the game or the players.
Given the general maturity level within those power blocs, it's more like having a bunch of 2 year olds decide your future for you. Or worse, having the 2 year olds told what your future will be by their authority figures.
Of course, this is the same mechanic in "democratic" societies except much more complexity is involved. Why you would support either as "representative" government is a clear indication that your judgement is severely compromised. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
81
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think its based on people who care, rather than player type. If no high sec mission running pubbie got in, then its clear that player base doesn't care ;).
Take note, a virtual nobody before this csm, who is championing FW got in. Well done to him. |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
81
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote. Incorrect. CSM is representative of the largest power blocs of corporations/alliances which != "of those who vote". The voters from the largest power blocs have obvious self-interests to vote in support of those power blocs, not necessarily for the best interest of the game or the players. Given the general maturity level within those power blocs, it's more like having a bunch of 2 year olds decide your future for you. Or worse, having the 2 year olds told what your future will be by their authority figures. Of course, this is the same mechanic in "democratic" societies except much more complexity is involved. Why you would support either as "representative" government is a clear indication that your judgement is severely compromised.
See you guys say the 0.0 power blocs are a bunch of kids, but had you any real experience you'd be blown away by the level of organisation that goes into them, the web services support alone makes some companies look amateur. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
446
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:
See you guys say the 0.0 power blocs are a bunch of kids, but had you any real experience you'd be blown away by the level of organisation that goes into them, the web services support alone makes some companies look amateur.
I think I qualified the statement to be inclusive of those with a clue. Critical thinking FTW! We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote. Now thats much better than representative of those who do not care.
It's representative of which large alliances have the most organized and mobilized voting engine.
There are lots of goons, and many goons have multiple accounts. All goons vote for Mittani, and all their accounts vote for him.
On the other hand, there are FAR more carebears. The carebears either don't vote because they have no interest in politics and they just log in every now and then to play a game with spaceships, or they do vote, but being from multiple different corps and alliances, they are unable to organize as effectively.
Either way, it's clear that the CSM has strayed from its purpose. Originally it was to allow player input. Now it's a political tool to allow certain alliances to push their agenda. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
118
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
8,447 month old accounts love to vote. |
Kla2
Defiance LLC
11
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
As the CSM is the only democraticly elected governing body in Eve, it's clear we need a system of checks and balances worked out. I propose that another council be added that would truly represent the eve population, and any agenda the CSM approves or mandates would require this second body's approval. To enable fair and true representation on this second body- let's call it the Galactic Legislature of Pilots, it's members would be selected by lottery, and chaired by CCP Hilmar. All pilots who have logged into High Sec in the last 6 months would be eligible. The GLOP would be responsible for meeting the week following the CSM meetings and would approve or amend any recommendations made by the CSM. Once a year both bodies would meet in a joint session and issue a state of the galaxy report that lists the outcome of the mudwrestling match between Chribba and the Mittani.
Yeah, I got nowhere to go with this...........
I love it, but it's just a game, fellas. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
201
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
goons may have been able to get 10,000 for their main man, but remember while goons want to destroy the game, ccp makes far to much money and has way too much fun to let it happen through csm.
bla bla agenda this bla bla agenda that, passionate csms one way or another are better to have than not to have.
Though if mittens steals the sword of a thousand truths and slays everyone at ccp HQ then we have a problem. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2192
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote. Incorrect. CSM is representative of the largest power blocs of corporations/alliances which != "of those who vote".
So people who are in large alliances shouldn't have their votes counted?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2192
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote. Now thats much better than representative of those who do not care. It's representative of which large alliances have the most organized and mobilized voting engine. There are lots of goons, and many goons have multiple accounts. All goons vote for Mittani, and all their accounts vote for him. On the other hand, there are FAR more carebears. The carebears either don't vote because they have no interest in politics and they just log in every now and then to play a game with spaceships, or they do vote, but being from multiple different corps and alliances, they are unable to organize as effectively. Either way, it's clear that the CSM has strayed from its purpose. Originally it was to allow player input. Now it's a political tool to allow certain alliances to push their agenda.
If the carebears don't vote then they don't want their voices heard.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
427
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:goons may have been able to get 10,000 for their main man, but remember while goons want to destroy the game, ccp makes far to much money and has way too much fun to let it happen through csm.
bla bla agenda this bla bla agenda that, passionate csms one way or another are better to have than not to have.
Though if mittens steals the sword of a thousand truths and slays everyone at ccp HQ then we have a problem.
Sigh...
Quote:but remember while goons want to destroy the game
It's YOUR, not THE You have to cut the ops team some slack, trolling the player base with made up downtime estimates is the only fun they get around here.-á(CCP Nullarbor) |
Prince Kobol
300
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm a high sec care bear and have been for over 2 years and I can quite happily say that both of the candidates I voted for were both Successful, The Mittani and Seleene
So as far as I am concerned the voting is working just fine |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Aranakas wrote:Lexmana wrote:CSM is representative of those who vote. Now thats much better than representative of those who do not care. It's representative of which large alliances have the most organized and mobilized voting engine. There are lots of goons, and many goons have multiple accounts. All goons vote for Mittani, and all their accounts vote for him. On the other hand, there are FAR more carebears. The carebears either don't vote because they have no interest in politics and they just log in every now and then to play a game with spaceships, or they do vote, but being from multiple different corps and alliances, they are unable to organize as effectively. Either way, it's clear that the CSM has strayed from its purpose. Originally it was to allow player input. Now it's a political tool to allow certain alliances to push their agenda. If the carebears don't vote then they don't want their voices heard.
If I just want to play a game with space ships I don't even know who Mittani or any of these candidates are or what they represent.
Goons have their decisions made for them. Mittani. XXDEATHXX<3's have their decision made for them: XXDEATH. Reds have their decisions made for them. That guy who's their leader.
Carebears have.... that guy that we heard other carebears talking about. Oh yeah, he seems like a good guy. I'll vote for him. For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth.
That doesn't mean I want to have my game experience needlessly altered to fit someone else's agenda. |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
98
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
In all honesty, it's a damn sight better then the 2 party system the ameicans or us british have.... sure there's the green party and the canabis party but are they ever REALLY going to get anywhere?
Just because not enough people care to vote and there are too many little people vying for a spot on the CSM thus ruther diluting the voter base does not mean the system is broken.
In fact, quite the oppersite, individuals like Mittani have a larger voter base all voting in the same direction because it suits them and they have a handful of individuals to vote for.
Rather than "generic empire CSM candidate X" who offers very little that differs to the others that are running or is running based on a single promise and has his small group of friends to vote for him.
If you really wanted to change something, contact all those people that failed this year, keep an eye out for people running for next years. Then get together and come up with 1 or 2 of you who reprisent all the ideas brought forward by the larger group. Then have them run for CSM.
Less people to vote for = more concentrated vote.
This all assumes that people aren't just running for ego rights and that those in empire poses the ability to work together, come up with a unified plan and then work towards it.... you know....... like the 0.0 alliances do already..... OMG WE JUST FOUND OUT WHY 0.0 PLAYERS KEEP GETTING IN!!!!!!! |
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stoicfaux
805
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:goons may have been able to get 10,000 for their main man, but remember while goons want to destroy the game, ccp makes far to much money and has way too much fun to let it happen through csm.
bla bla agenda this bla bla agenda that, passionate csms one way or another are better to have than not to have.
This ^^. Incarna notwithstanding, I'm pretty sure that CCP knows who pays their salaries. The CSM with its experienced members, does give CCP a good sounding board to bounce ideas off and prevent another Incarna situation.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2192
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Carebears have.... that guy that we heard other carebears talking about. Oh yeah, he seems like a good guy. I'll vote for him. For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth.
It would have taken less than half an hour to read all the candidates threads to see what they stood for. If so-called carebears aren't even willing to take that small amount of effort then they don't deserve to have their voices heard.
Fortunately for them Mittens has shown over and over again that he advocates for things that are good for the game as a whole even when they are detrimental to Goons. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.03.26 15:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Aranakas wrote:Carebears have.... that guy that we heard other carebears talking about. Oh yeah, he seems like a good guy. I'll vote for him. For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth. It would have taken less than half an hour to read all the candidates threads to see what they stood for. If so-called carebears aren't even willing to take that small amount of effort then they don't deserve to have their voices heard. Fortunately for them Mittens has shown over and over again that he advocates for things that are good for the game as a whole even when they are detrimental to Goons.
Pointless, even if EVERY carebear voted, there are too many candidates and carebears don't belong to just one alliance.
It's a broken system, whether carebears "deserve" to have fun playing internet spaceships or not. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2192
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 15:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Aranakas wrote:Carebears have.... that guy that we heard other carebears talking about. Oh yeah, he seems like a good guy. I'll vote for him. For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth. It would have taken less than half an hour to read all the candidates threads to see what they stood for. If so-called carebears aren't even willing to take that small amount of effort then they don't deserve to have their voices heard. Fortunately for them Mittens has shown over and over again that he advocates for things that are good for the game as a whole even when they are detrimental to Goons. Pointless, even if EVERY carebear voted, there are too many candidates and carebears don't belong to just one alliance. It's a broken system, whether carebears "deserve" to have fun playing internet spaceships or not.
All I keep hearing is how there are so many more carebears than nullsec players. Surely it wouldn't have been too much effort to agree on one of the carebear candidates. The process of voting was literally visiting a website...not sure how much easier you are expecting CCP to make it.
I think what's more likely is that carebears don't really care about the health of the game as a whole so they are unwilling to take any responsibility for electing a CSM that shares their views
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
421
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Posted - 2012.03.26 15:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
just have 1 representative from every part of space nullsec pvp, null sec industry/pve WH pvp WH pve ect in lowsec ( add FW) maybe? ect in highsec
9 people, kinda like lord of the rings. |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
52
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Posted - 2012.03.26 15:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ghoest wrote:Its been explained before that the mechanics of the election system make the CSM unrepresentative of the averge EVE player.
Its has also been explained that the structure of the CSM promotes biased input that not only favor particular types of gamers based on playstyle but even particular factions based on in game politics.
And now the CSM is just simply embarrassing.
Its really time to kill it.
There are 14 seats on the CSM. if no one who'se position you agreed with managed to get even a second seven seat then you might want to consider that maybe you are just in a very small minority. Apparently not even 2000 out of 360000 potential voters cared enough to elect someone you like.
The csm is highly representative of the wishes of those who voted. Why should we listen to the complaints of those who didn't trouble themselves to click a button on a web page? |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
53
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Posted - 2012.03.26 15:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:just have 1 representative from every part of space nullsec pvp, null sec industry/pve WH pvp WH pve ect in lowsec ( add FW) maybe? ect in highsec
9 people, kinda like lord of the rings.
So all of hi sec gets the same number of seats as all of Lo sec?
Apparently hi sec votes are only worth about a twentieth of Lo sec ones |
Kojach Baumherr
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.26 16:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:See you guys say the 0.0 power blocs are a bunch of kids, but had you any real experience you'd be blown away by the level of organisation that goes into them, the web services support alone makes some companies look amateur.
i understand the time and effort that goes into maintaining an empire in null sec, sometimes i think about the infrastructure required to keep all the pos, jump bridges, jump drives, ect., fueled and im just like damn how do they do it
but that has nothing to do with them behaving like world class douchebags |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.03.26 16:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Aranakas wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Aranakas wrote:Carebears have.... that guy that we heard other carebears talking about. Oh yeah, he seems like a good guy. I'll vote for him. For most people, internet spaceship presidents and congressmen isn't an important enough topic to research in any depth. It would have taken less than half an hour to read all the candidates threads to see what they stood for. If so-called carebears aren't even willing to take that small amount of effort then they don't deserve to have their voices heard. Fortunately for them Mittens has shown over and over again that he advocates for things that are good for the game as a whole even when they are detrimental to Goons. Pointless, even if EVERY carebear voted, there are too many candidates and carebears don't belong to just one alliance. It's a broken system, whether carebears "deserve" to have fun playing internet spaceships or not. All I keep hearing is how there are so many more carebears than nullsec players. Surely it wouldn't have been too much effort to agree on one of the carebear candidates. The process of voting was literally visiting a website...not sure how much easier you are expecting CCP to make it. I think what's more likely is that carebears don't really care about the health of the game as a whole so they are unwilling to take any responsibility for electing a CSM that shares their views
I like Age of Empires, that doesn't mean I'm going to go to their website every day and fill out their polls. If the next installment in the series is crap, I guess it's my fault by your logic.
If 85% of eve players do not vote, it's a crappy system, not a crappy playerbase.
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2198
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:I like Age of Empires, that doesn't mean I'm going to go to their website every day and fill out their polls. If the next installment in the series is crap, I guess it's my fault by your logic.
If 85% of eve players do not vote, it's a crappy system, not a crappy playerbase.
If CSM voting was done on a daily basis you'd have a point. Even the carebears should be able to rouse themselves to click on a link once a year.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
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