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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Chicken Tikka
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Posted - 2008.08.27 09:58:00 -
[1]
My friend was mining in 1.0 Emrayor, he is in Royal Amarr Institute. A guy warps next to him in a rifter, he is in Viziam corp.
He pops the can then kills my mate, strange thing is no concord. Is this an exploit? or can someone exaplin whats happening here?
Thanks
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Face Palmer
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:05:00 -
[2]
Masala.
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Vanya Vanneren
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:06:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Chicken Tikka My friend was mining in 1.0 Emrayor, he is in Royal Amarr Institute. A guy warps next to him in a rifter, he is in Viziam corp.
He pops the can then kills my mate, strange thing is no concord. Is this an exploit? or can someone exaplin whats happening here?
Thanks
He probably can flipped your friend. That is, ejected his own can and named it the exact same name as your friends can, then moved the contents of your friends can to his can. When your friend opened the can thinking it was his own he was flagged for aggression and the wannabe pirate loser killed him.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:06:00 -
[4]
Congratulations on your initiation into the wonderful world of canflipping.
The rifter guy flipped your friend's can - basically he took the ore out of it and placed it into a new can. This makes him all blinky red to your friend and now your friend's ore is the flipper's ore, since ownership of the can = ownership of the contents.
So your friend either (foolishly) opened fire on the blinky red Rifter, causing your friend to flash red in return, or he took some ore out of the flipper's can, also causing him to go red blinky. Either way, once you blink, you can be freely shot at without CONCORD intervention, which the flipper was more then happy to do by the sound of things. ---
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Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:07:00 -
[5]
When you say pops the can, do you mean he flipped the ore in it? Then i'm assuming you friend took some ore back. At that point Concord considers the exchange mutual and lets you fight it out.
Common Can flipping.
If your friend did nothing but watched the guy take or blow up his can and then get got shot at. If he targeted back and did any aggressing (e-war is aggressing although you fire nothing). Again mutual. But if your friend did nothing I would expect a Concord reply... at least your friend would end up with Kill rights.
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Darth Kasbian
Random Pirate's Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:09:00 -
[6]
Oldest pirate wanna be trick in the book picking off easy helpless miners (Note to all don't can mine in noob sec) Yarrr
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:12:00 -
[7]
If your friend genuinely is a newbie (like say a couple of weeks old or less), you can probably successfully petition for harassment
_______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
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Darth Kasbian
Random Pirate's Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:15:00 -
[8]
OOO and if your friend is so upset by this and he quits can i have his stuff
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Chicken Tikka
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:18:00 -
[9]
Thaks for the replies guys, my mate says one minute his can window was open, next minute it went ( im assuming the pirate either took or popped his can ) The pirate then, as you correctly point out went blinky red. At which point he then locks my friend scrambles and kills him. My friend did not agress in anyway.
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Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:23:00 -
[10]
It is my understanding these sorts of tactics on a new player would only be considered griefing and harassment in the following systems:
Amarr: Chaven, Sehmy, Emrayur
Caldari: Kisogo, Todaki, Amsen
Gallente: Duripant, Bourynes, Cistuvaert
Minmatar: Ammold, Ryddinjorn, Hulm
If there are any other system someone knows to be officially covered then please correct me.
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Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:23:00 -
[11]
Does your mate have auto target back set? The default is to retarget 1 target. Hence he could of aggressed on accident....
other wise the only thing I can think of is that the Pirate blew your friend up before Concord got there. I assume your mate warped out once in his pod...
I don't mine, so I don't get popped by pirates. (when players attack me I pretty much always fight back or just flee if I'm way out gunned)
Anyone know what the Concord response time is supposed to be?
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gregor Vernof
If there are any other system someone knows to be officially covered then please correct me.
Uh, this is EVE. I don't think attacking a player once Anywere is considered griefing or harassment. It's a PvP game. Sure your in protected space, but only to some extent. Someone blowing me up once especially if they don't pod me...Not soemthing I would equate to griefing or harassment at all... they're just playing the game.
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Ashlee Darksky
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chicken Tikka My friend was mining in 1.0 Emrayor, he is in Royal Amarr Institute. A guy warps next to him in a rifter, he is in Viziam corp.
He pops the can then kills my mate, strange thing is no concord. Is this an exploit? or can someone exaplin whats happening here?
Thanks
You were done! Welcome to EVE. Now... learn from that mistake, don't do it again and you'll be good.
PS - Glad to see you didn't whine about it! --- I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing ---
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:28:00 -
[14]
oh noes he autolocked back
got to turn that off.
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:28:00 -
[15]
Actually griefing hour old newbies is frowned upon.
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Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:30:00 -
[16]
In a 1.0 system CONCORD's response is pretty much instant I believe.
As much as it might be hard to accept the OP's friend probably did something to cause the aggro. Even moving ore around with your mouse within the can-flipper's jetcan, even without taking any, can produce a aggro timer... I know I have made this mistake. However there are numerous other ways the OP's friend could have mistakenly grabbed a aggro timer and have been too caught up in the moment to realize it.
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Ashlee Darksky
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gregor Vernof It is my understanding these sorts of tactics on a new player would only be considered griefing and harassment in the following systems:
Amarr: Chaven, Sehmy, Emrayur
Caldari: Kisogo, Todaki, Amsen
Gallente: Duripant, Bourynes, Cistuvaert
Minmatar: Ammold, Ryddinjorn, Hulm
If there are any other system someone knows to be officially covered then please correct me.
No, you can be shot anywhere if you are dumb enough to allow it to happen... What is "frowned upon" is can *baiting* outside of starting stations. Flipping someone in a belt is fair game.
Just accept that it was your fault and move on.
Gregor Vernof - it's not griefing or harassment!!! Go back to WoW or something, this is a legit tactic of EVE! --- I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing ---
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Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
Just accept that it was your fault and move on.
I think he just wanted to figure out what it was he did that caused a lack of Concord response, so he can prevent it from happening again.
Sounds like it was Auto-relock... Although just locking an opponent is an allowable action. Once you aggress you've stepped over the line. That being said a lot of things aggress that one wouldn't think do, so best is not to target them.
That auto retarget thing is more trouble than it's worth. I kinda think the default should be to have it off, or at least have it talked about in the Newbie tutorial.
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
Uh, this is EVE. I don't think attacking a player once Anywere is considered griefing or harassment. It's a PvP game. Sure your in protected space, but only to some extent. Someone blowing me up once especially if they don't pod me...Not soemthing I would equate to griefing or harassment at all... they're just playing the game.
Actually when I first started (less then a week old, still in Minmatar starter NPC Corp) my life of less-then-desirable activities I made the mistake of running up to Todaki for some ore thievery. I quickly got a official warning that any activity that allowed a new player to aggro themselves and get killed in those starter systems was considered harassment and could result in a ban.
This was confirmed through my petition of the eve mail I had received with this news.
(ok, hope I didn't violate any EULA or Forum rules sharing that info)
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Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Gregor Vernof on 27/08/2008 10:44:43
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky Gregor Vernof - it's not griefing or harassment!!! Go back to WoW or something, this is a legit tactic of EVE!
Good grief get a grip, I've played EVE for many years now minng, missioning and generally being a nice fat old carebear. This is just my first foray into PvP and the less "legal" aspects of EVE. I am not in anyway saying that the life I am now leading is not allowed or acceptable... hell quite the opposite, I am loving the nefarious life of a young "pirate-in-training" (time will be all it takes to get my sold Pirate Wings).
However, whether you were aware of it or not CCP has indeed stated to me in eve mail and through my petitions that aggro'ing new players in the starter areas is a bannable offense of harassment. Sorry, petition it yourself, I'd love to see if you get the same info... however it did take a while (more than one week) to get my petition responded to.
EDIT: sorry is very late here, made some dumb spelling/grammar mistakes... hell big one for me to notice them.... |
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.27 10:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MotherMoon oh noes he autolocked back
got to turn that off.
And fired his mighty mining laser?
Autolock back do nothing if you don't fire. In a 1.0 system he would not have his drones out.
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Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Atlas Elestra on 27/08/2008 11:00:43 It's not just shooting that is considered a hostile action. E-war aggresses. So If I attempt to jam you it's aggression. I'm not sure about scanning, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is considered aggression.
Plus when your under player attack or other attack, sometimes you can hit a button and not mean to so add in soemthing happening automatically and you can often accidently aggress...
That starter area policy kinda surprises me since they don't inform you of it....
I've been on missions in a 1.0 system, and I certainly used my drones....not sure I understand that. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra That starter area policy kinda surprises me since they don't inform you of it....
I was told that any activity: can baiting, locking a new player as they left station in the hope of causing them to be CONCORDED, can-flipping, and just plain out right ore thievery with out flipping the can, was potential a bannable harassment offense.
In essence ANY activity that might cause a new player to attain aggro to you there by allowing you to pop them.... Trust me I was VERY surprised since when I started my first EVE account I had fallen prey to many of these same tricks in the starter systems. (no I'm not going to tell who those characters are, I'm not that stupid and am enjoying my new life in EVE separate from the old.).
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Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:17:00 -
[24]
Putting in a rule like that in a game like this is kinda lame. If you want to protect new players in the starter Systems, then CODE IT. Make me unable to target a player in that sector, or make the Starter systems Instanced.
If you want to remove that threat they should remove the ability for me to do it, not quitely impliment a policy where I can get banned for something I've been doing for years.... <shrug> getting a bit off-topic... ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:26:00 -
[25]
Jetcan mining?
So, the pirate goes up to the newbies can, loots something, jetisons his own can and transfers all the stuff into that, the newbie then puts stuff into the pirates can and thus, gets "flagged"...
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Nocturnal Avenger
Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Face Palmer
Masala.
eh?
- Carebear Pirate - |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 27/08/2008 11:40:07 Any so-called "pirate" who makes a habit of preying on newbies.....
....is NOT playing Eve in its true pvp spirit. ....is a pathetic lame loser ....deserves any crap he gets
and this bears repeating....
....is NOT playing Eve in its true pvp spirit.
Furthermore, its a bannable offense in newbie systems. Find your own link to the proof, or better yet DONT find it, and get banned.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Atlas Elestra on 27/08/2008 11:53:01 The Jetcan mining Exploit thing is what a corp mate told me. I'll look for some back up of the claim.
I don't think that many pirates check a miners profile and try to figure out if they're newbies or not... I think they just see miner and drool.
This is what my corp mate said when we were discussion some Can flipping Pirate problems we were having in our home sector at the time...
Quote: Jetcan mining - The problem with all of the thieves can be traced back to this. For the record, CCP considers Jetcan mining an exploit. To them, it allows too much ore to be mined too quickly and drives down the price of ore. However, when trying to stop it they realized that there was no good game mechanic way to do it without killing the ability to jet at all, so they introduced ore theft as a player-control to the problem. This is the kind of solution we always clamor for as gamers.
I'll drop him a message for if there's some forum back up/public CCP message about it. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
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Posted - 2008.08.27 11:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra The Jetcan mining Exploit thing is what a corp mate told me. I'll look for some back up of the claim.
I don't think that many pirates check a miners profile and try to figure out if they're newbies or not... I think they just see miner and drool.
"pirates" that do this, don;t care what you are, newbie or not, they simply want to kill you becuase they can, end of
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Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:34:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Tiberius Maddox on 27/08/2008 13:36:54
Originally by: Atlas Elestra Uh, this is EVE. I don't think attacking a player once Anywere is considered griefing or harassment. It's a PvP game. Sure your in protected space, but only to some extent. Someone blowing me up once especially if they don't pod me...Not soemthing I would equate to griefing or harassment at all... they're just playing the game.
According to CCP, griefing new players is a bannable offense. This includes can flipping in any starter system or starter tutorial complex.
Originally by: CCP A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336
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