Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Chicken Tikka
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 09:58:00 -
[1]
My friend was mining in 1.0 Emrayor, he is in Royal Amarr Institute. A guy warps next to him in a rifter, he is in Viziam corp.
He pops the can then kills my mate, strange thing is no concord. Is this an exploit? or can someone exaplin whats happening here?
Thanks
|
Face Palmer
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:05:00 -
[2]
Masala.
|
Vanya Vanneren
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:06:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Chicken Tikka My friend was mining in 1.0 Emrayor, he is in Royal Amarr Institute. A guy warps next to him in a rifter, he is in Viziam corp.
He pops the can then kills my mate, strange thing is no concord. Is this an exploit? or can someone exaplin whats happening here?
Thanks
He probably can flipped your friend. That is, ejected his own can and named it the exact same name as your friends can, then moved the contents of your friends can to his can. When your friend opened the can thinking it was his own he was flagged for aggression and the wannabe pirate loser killed him.
|
Mankirks Wife
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:06:00 -
[4]
Congratulations on your initiation into the wonderful world of canflipping.
The rifter guy flipped your friend's can - basically he took the ore out of it and placed it into a new can. This makes him all blinky red to your friend and now your friend's ore is the flipper's ore, since ownership of the can = ownership of the contents.
So your friend either (foolishly) opened fire on the blinky red Rifter, causing your friend to flash red in return, or he took some ore out of the flipper's can, also causing him to go red blinky. Either way, once you blink, you can be freely shot at without CONCORD intervention, which the flipper was more then happy to do by the sound of things. ---
|
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:07:00 -
[5]
When you say pops the can, do you mean he flipped the ore in it? Then i'm assuming you friend took some ore back. At that point Concord considers the exchange mutual and lets you fight it out.
Common Can flipping.
If your friend did nothing but watched the guy take or blow up his can and then get got shot at. If he targeted back and did any aggressing (e-war is aggressing although you fire nothing). Again mutual. But if your friend did nothing I would expect a Concord reply... at least your friend would end up with Kill rights.
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Darth Kasbian
Random Pirate's Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:09:00 -
[6]
Oldest pirate wanna be trick in the book picking off easy helpless miners (Note to all don't can mine in noob sec) Yarrr
|
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:12:00 -
[7]
If your friend genuinely is a newbie (like say a couple of weeks old or less), you can probably successfully petition for harassment
_______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
|
Darth Kasbian
Random Pirate's Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:15:00 -
[8]
OOO and if your friend is so upset by this and he quits can i have his stuff
|
Chicken Tikka
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:18:00 -
[9]
Thaks for the replies guys, my mate says one minute his can window was open, next minute it went ( im assuming the pirate either took or popped his can ) The pirate then, as you correctly point out went blinky red. At which point he then locks my friend scrambles and kills him. My friend did not agress in anyway.
|
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:23:00 -
[10]
It is my understanding these sorts of tactics on a new player would only be considered griefing and harassment in the following systems:
Amarr: Chaven, Sehmy, Emrayur
Caldari: Kisogo, Todaki, Amsen
Gallente: Duripant, Bourynes, Cistuvaert
Minmatar: Ammold, Ryddinjorn, Hulm
If there are any other system someone knows to be officially covered then please correct me.
|
|
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:23:00 -
[11]
Does your mate have auto target back set? The default is to retarget 1 target. Hence he could of aggressed on accident....
other wise the only thing I can think of is that the Pirate blew your friend up before Concord got there. I assume your mate warped out once in his pod...
I don't mine, so I don't get popped by pirates. (when players attack me I pretty much always fight back or just flee if I'm way out gunned)
Anyone know what the Concord response time is supposed to be?
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gregor Vernof
If there are any other system someone knows to be officially covered then please correct me.
Uh, this is EVE. I don't think attacking a player once Anywere is considered griefing or harassment. It's a PvP game. Sure your in protected space, but only to some extent. Someone blowing me up once especially if they don't pod me...Not soemthing I would equate to griefing or harassment at all... they're just playing the game.
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Ashlee Darksky
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chicken Tikka My friend was mining in 1.0 Emrayor, he is in Royal Amarr Institute. A guy warps next to him in a rifter, he is in Viziam corp.
He pops the can then kills my mate, strange thing is no concord. Is this an exploit? or can someone exaplin whats happening here?
Thanks
You were done! Welcome to EVE. Now... learn from that mistake, don't do it again and you'll be good.
PS - Glad to see you didn't whine about it! --- I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing ---
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:28:00 -
[14]
oh noes he autolocked back
got to turn that off.
|
Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:28:00 -
[15]
Actually griefing hour old newbies is frowned upon.
|
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:30:00 -
[16]
In a 1.0 system CONCORD's response is pretty much instant I believe.
As much as it might be hard to accept the OP's friend probably did something to cause the aggro. Even moving ore around with your mouse within the can-flipper's jetcan, even without taking any, can produce a aggro timer... I know I have made this mistake. However there are numerous other ways the OP's friend could have mistakenly grabbed a aggro timer and have been too caught up in the moment to realize it.
|
Ashlee Darksky
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gregor Vernof It is my understanding these sorts of tactics on a new player would only be considered griefing and harassment in the following systems:
Amarr: Chaven, Sehmy, Emrayur
Caldari: Kisogo, Todaki, Amsen
Gallente: Duripant, Bourynes, Cistuvaert
Minmatar: Ammold, Ryddinjorn, Hulm
If there are any other system someone knows to be officially covered then please correct me.
No, you can be shot anywhere if you are dumb enough to allow it to happen... What is "frowned upon" is can *baiting* outside of starting stations. Flipping someone in a belt is fair game.
Just accept that it was your fault and move on.
Gregor Vernof - it's not griefing or harassment!!! Go back to WoW or something, this is a legit tactic of EVE! --- I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing ---
|
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
Just accept that it was your fault and move on.
I think he just wanted to figure out what it was he did that caused a lack of Concord response, so he can prevent it from happening again.
Sounds like it was Auto-relock... Although just locking an opponent is an allowable action. Once you aggress you've stepped over the line. That being said a lot of things aggress that one wouldn't think do, so best is not to target them.
That auto retarget thing is more trouble than it's worth. I kinda think the default should be to have it off, or at least have it talked about in the Newbie tutorial.
ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
Uh, this is EVE. I don't think attacking a player once Anywere is considered griefing or harassment. It's a PvP game. Sure your in protected space, but only to some extent. Someone blowing me up once especially if they don't pod me...Not soemthing I would equate to griefing or harassment at all... they're just playing the game.
Actually when I first started (less then a week old, still in Minmatar starter NPC Corp) my life of less-then-desirable activities I made the mistake of running up to Todaki for some ore thievery. I quickly got a official warning that any activity that allowed a new player to aggro themselves and get killed in those starter systems was considered harassment and could result in a ban.
This was confirmed through my petition of the eve mail I had received with this news.
(ok, hope I didn't violate any EULA or Forum rules sharing that info)
|
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Gregor Vernof on 27/08/2008 10:44:43
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky Gregor Vernof - it's not griefing or harassment!!! Go back to WoW or something, this is a legit tactic of EVE!
Good grief get a grip, I've played EVE for many years now minng, missioning and generally being a nice fat old carebear. This is just my first foray into PvP and the less "legal" aspects of EVE. I am not in anyway saying that the life I am now leading is not allowed or acceptable... hell quite the opposite, I am loving the nefarious life of a young "pirate-in-training" (time will be all it takes to get my sold Pirate Wings).
However, whether you were aware of it or not CCP has indeed stated to me in eve mail and through my petitions that aggro'ing new players in the starter areas is a bannable offense of harassment. Sorry, petition it yourself, I'd love to see if you get the same info... however it did take a while (more than one week) to get my petition responded to.
EDIT: sorry is very late here, made some dumb spelling/grammar mistakes... hell big one for me to notice them.... |
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 10:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MotherMoon oh noes he autolocked back
got to turn that off.
And fired his mighty mining laser?
Autolock back do nothing if you don't fire. In a 1.0 system he would not have his drones out.
|
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Atlas Elestra on 27/08/2008 11:00:43 It's not just shooting that is considered a hostile action. E-war aggresses. So If I attempt to jam you it's aggression. I'm not sure about scanning, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is considered aggression.
Plus when your under player attack or other attack, sometimes you can hit a button and not mean to so add in soemthing happening automatically and you can often accidently aggress...
That starter area policy kinda surprises me since they don't inform you of it....
I've been on missions in a 1.0 system, and I certainly used my drones....not sure I understand that. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Gregor Vernof
Minmatar Toddlers Throwing Tantrums
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra That starter area policy kinda surprises me since they don't inform you of it....
I was told that any activity: can baiting, locking a new player as they left station in the hope of causing them to be CONCORDED, can-flipping, and just plain out right ore thievery with out flipping the can, was potential a bannable harassment offense.
In essence ANY activity that might cause a new player to attain aggro to you there by allowing you to pop them.... Trust me I was VERY surprised since when I started my first EVE account I had fallen prey to many of these same tricks in the starter systems. (no I'm not going to tell who those characters are, I'm not that stupid and am enjoying my new life in EVE separate from the old.).
|
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:17:00 -
[24]
Putting in a rule like that in a game like this is kinda lame. If you want to protect new players in the starter Systems, then CODE IT. Make me unable to target a player in that sector, or make the Starter systems Instanced.
If you want to remove that threat they should remove the ability for me to do it, not quitely impliment a policy where I can get banned for something I've been doing for years.... <shrug> getting a bit off-topic... ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:26:00 -
[25]
Jetcan mining?
So, the pirate goes up to the newbies can, loots something, jetisons his own can and transfers all the stuff into that, the newbie then puts stuff into the pirates can and thus, gets "flagged"...
|
Nocturnal Avenger
Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Face Palmer
Masala.
eh?
- Carebear Pirate - |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 27/08/2008 11:40:07 Any so-called "pirate" who makes a habit of preying on newbies.....
....is NOT playing Eve in its true pvp spirit. ....is a pathetic lame loser ....deserves any crap he gets
and this bears repeating....
....is NOT playing Eve in its true pvp spirit.
Furthermore, its a bannable offense in newbie systems. Find your own link to the proof, or better yet DONT find it, and get banned.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
|
Atlas Elestra
Titan Mining LLC
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Atlas Elestra on 27/08/2008 11:53:01 The Jetcan mining Exploit thing is what a corp mate told me. I'll look for some back up of the claim.
I don't think that many pirates check a miners profile and try to figure out if they're newbies or not... I think they just see miner and drool.
This is what my corp mate said when we were discussion some Can flipping Pirate problems we were having in our home sector at the time...
Quote: Jetcan mining - The problem with all of the thieves can be traced back to this. For the record, CCP considers Jetcan mining an exploit. To them, it allows too much ore to be mined too quickly and drives down the price of ore. However, when trying to stop it they realized that there was no good game mechanic way to do it without killing the ability to jet at all, so they introduced ore theft as a player-control to the problem. This is the kind of solution we always clamor for as gamers.
I'll drop him a message for if there's some forum back up/public CCP message about it. ôSalvage is as much an art as building the ship itself. We take rubble and make rigs, now that takes Talent.ö |
Judas Jones
Amarr Black Company
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 11:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra The Jetcan mining Exploit thing is what a corp mate told me. I'll look for some back up of the claim.
I don't think that many pirates check a miners profile and try to figure out if they're newbies or not... I think they just see miner and drool.
"pirates" that do this, don;t care what you are, newbie or not, they simply want to kill you becuase they can, end of
|
Tiberius Maddox
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 13:34:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Tiberius Maddox on 27/08/2008 13:36:54
Originally by: Atlas Elestra Uh, this is EVE. I don't think attacking a player once Anywere is considered griefing or harassment. It's a PvP game. Sure your in protected space, but only to some extent. Someone blowing me up once especially if they don't pod me...Not soemthing I would equate to griefing or harassment at all... they're just playing the game.
According to CCP, griefing new players is a bannable offense. This includes can flipping in any starter system or starter tutorial complex.
Originally by: CCP A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336
|
|
nahtoh
Caldari StrikerCorp
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 13:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Judas Jones
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
note CCP considers Jetcan mining an EXPLOIT....
Which is prolly why the can flipping tactic is what it is...
Link please?
Jetcan mining is the only method viable for newbies and until they implement a real, proper sized secure can for the older players, its still the only viable method for them aswell.
I'ts not the player bases fault CCP has not provided adequate tools for such mondane and ******ily booring job's such as mining... and trust me, after a while, you'll hate it too!
Its not a bad exploit, but it is a exploit (unintended use). Jet cans were not disgined for being a temp storage point for your minerials when mining. Their size was to make sure popped ships cargo and equipment could fit. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Amarr sin
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 13:53:00 -
[32]
Hi all, this is the person whom my m8 is talking about. *Background, only started playing this a week ago or so.
Like i said to my m8, shit happens move on. If anything i was more confused as to what was going on. One minute my cargo window was there showing ore in the next the cargo container exploded on my screen, only then did i see this guy had a red box flashing in the middle of his ship.... At this moment in time i have no PVP experience hense total amazement/bemusement as to what ws going off. Other than losing a destoyer (setup for mining) I was pee'd off that this sort of lame tactic could be used on other new ppl coming into the game. This could lead someone quite new to think: 1) Total confusion to the person whos just got canned 2) Total confusion as to WTF has just gone off 3) Fok this game, the only thing i can do is mine and i carn't even do this now, fok it im off 4) take it in the chin, understand whats gone off and move on
Thankfully its the latter for me, ive now blown all the mining ISK i made the whole of yesterday to get a new destroyer and kit it out but also ive now got Warp Core Stabilizer on the ship. I would like to say, i did try an warp out but he had a warp jammer.
To me its experience, im not going to cry about it, but CCP needs to sort this out or neebies into the game (like myself) might be extremely put off by this and stop playing the game, which would be a terrible thing to happen as EVE is a fantastic....
As they say 'keep on Smiling'
2)
|
Dihania
Gallente SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 13:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
If your friend genuinely is a newbie (like say a couple of weeks old or less), you can probably successfully petition for harassment
No way.
[hrhr]
Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
|
Amarr sin
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 14:09:00 -
[34]
Please explain 'no way' please Thanks
|
Joakim Wasyl
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 14:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Amarr sin Thankfully its the latter for me, ive now blown all the mining ISK i made the whole of yesterday to get a new destroyer and kit it out but also ive now got Warp Core Stabilizer on the ship. I would like to say, i did try an warp out but he had a warp jammer.
I think you will find a Mining frigate (Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas or Burst) will mine quicker than the destroyer and be cheaper and faster to boot. These frigs have a 20% bonus to mining laser yield (so double once you get to frigate V).
Do a google on 'Eve Fitting Tool' - EFT which will help you out. |
Viqtoria
Caldari Groping Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 15:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Face Palmer
Masala.
what system is that
|
Lucas Avignon
Avignon Associates Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.08.27 15:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Viqtoria
Originally by: Face Palmer
Masala.
what system is that
I believe you find it in the Chicken Tikka region.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
|
F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 04:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Amarr sin Hi all, this is the person whom my m8 is talking about. *Background, only started playing this a week ago or so.
Like i said to my m8, shit happens move on. If anything i was more confused as to what was going on. One minute my cargo window was there showing ore in the next the cargo container exploded on my screen, only then did i see this guy had a red box flashing in the middle of his ship.... At this moment in time i have no PVP experience hense total amazement/bemusement as to what ws going off. Other than losing a destoyer (setup for mining) I was pee'd off that this sort of lame tactic could be used on other new ppl coming into the game. This could lead someone quite new to think: 1) Total confusion to the person whos just got canned 2) Total confusion as to WTF has just gone off 3) Fok this game, the only thing i can do is mine and i carn't even do this now, fok it im off 4) take it in the chin, understand whats gone off and move on
Thankfully its the latter for me, ive now blown all the mining ISK i made the whole of yesterday to get a new destroyer and kit it out but also ive now got Warp Core Stabilizer on the ship. I would like to say, i did try an warp out but he had a warp jammer.
To me its experience, im not going to cry about it, but CCP needs to sort this out or neebies into the game (like myself) might be extremely put off by this and stop playing the game, which would be a terrible thing to happen as EVE is a fantastic....
As they say 'keep on Smiling'
2)
If you really are a new player and were can-flipped or otherwise killed in your starter system, then you can petition the loss, as someone above posted. Do so immediately with all info you can provide and you will probably be reimbursed.
I don't know all the details, so I can't guarantee it, but I suggest that you try.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
|
Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 04:52:00 -
[39]
I'm ambivalent on this. I think it is good that this sort of thing happens to newbs. Sure, some leave. However, The ones that stay are the ones I want to play with.
/shrug
-
|
Muskiet
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 04:58:00 -
[40]
Did your friend have drones out and set to "aggresive"? The drones might have automatically attacked the rifter after he stole from the can which gives the rifter the chance to shoot back.
|
|
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 07:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Judas Jones Jetcan mining is the only method viable for newbies and until they implement a real, proper sized secure can for the older players, its still the only viable method for them aswell.
I'ts not the player bases fault CCP has not provided adequate tools
The tools are adequate. It's not CCP's job to make your life easy, mindless, and risk free. The current mining trade-offs are good game design. You have to choose between: 1. doing it solo for a slow, safe return 2. doing it solo for a higher, risky return 2. doing it in a team, less risky and more efficient than any solo method, but you have to cooperate with other human beings (ugh!)
If you think they're going to destroy all that, and ruin every mining corporation in eve, by creating a cargo can that makes solo mining more efficient and lower-risk than any other technique, you're dreaming.
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
|
Upright
Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 09:25:00 -
[42]
You should be thanking the guy in the rifter, he gave u a cheap lesson.
You would be more annoyed if u were in a hulk....
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente Federation Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 09:30:00 -
[43]
Good job on being mature about the loss and adapting to the conditions as you understand them.
I have a feeling you'll do VERY well in this game in the long term. Lots of lessons still to learn, but if you take the approach of "I see... well, I won't do THAT again" you'll thrive.
|
Ralara
Caldari Vivicide
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 09:31:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Judas Jones
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
note CCP considers Jetcan mining an EXPLOIT....
Which is prolly why the can flipping tactic is what it is...
Link please?
He's right. Don't have a link but they've said as much before.
Quote: Jetcan mining is the only method viable for newbies and until they implement a real, proper sized secure can for the older players, its still the only viable method for them aswell.
*shrugs*
Quote: I'ts not the player bases fault CCP has not provided adequate tools for such mondane and ******ily booring job's such as mining... and trust me, after a while, you'll hate it too!
No, but it's the players fault for "inventing" this way to mine - it's an exploit by it's very definition - using a game mechanic in an unintended way --
|
Amarr sin
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 10:33:00 -
[45]
Looks like this issue has been covered before....There are quite a few of you who are for and against it. Maybe im mature enough (35) to look at this as experience welcome to EVE, which to be frank i carn't wait to get into but i believe that there must be a 'comfort' zone for new ppl coming into the game.
The situation was at the time i got canned was i was going through (ironically) the tutorials for Intermediate, combat, yes i hear you laugh....while i was mining. Im getting to know EVE, whats it about, basically trying to get to know as much as i can.... only then i will decide to which direction i wish to choose. i want to learn at my own pace and have no pressures or threats.
After reading every post regarding this subject, ive come to the conclusion that this is a lame and petty tactic on newbies for the reason i have put in my previous post but the reason why i came to this end is i opened the Map... and looked how big EVE is.... To prey on ppl who don't know the game, its in's and out's let alone know what its liked to have this type of exploit happen to them is plan and simple sad... I feel sorry for the ppl who have to resort to this..
To be honest, i don't know how you can curb/change this type of ploy...you could call it pilot etiquette....respect for fellow EVE players. Fair enough goto a < 0.8 system game on but in a 1.0 - 0.9 just give myself and others the time to learn and get to know EVE.
Anyway, myself it hasn't detered me one bit from EVE I hope that in the future i may fight with/fight against you.... ....Thank you all very much for posting and pointing out your views...ive learned something new...
|
Kira Novia
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 10:35:00 -
[46]
I'm gone to Kisogo, flipped a new-players can, kill them, explained to them why and how it happened, and then purchased them a brand new mining frig with the best t1 frig gear for mining.
Am I griefing or teaching?
You decide.
|
Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 11:14:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Amarr sin Looks like this issue has been covered before....There are quite a few of you who are for and against it. Maybe im mature enough (35) to look at this as experience welcome to EVE, which to be frank i carn't wait to get into but i believe that there must be a 'comfort' zone for new ppl coming into the game.
The situation was at the time i got canned was i was going through (ironically) the tutorials for Intermediate, combat, yes i hear you laugh....while i was mining. Im getting to know EVE, whats it about, basically trying to get to know as much as i can.... only then i will decide to which direction i wish to choose. i want to learn at my own pace and have no pressures or threats.
After reading every post regarding this subject, ive come to the conclusion that this is a lame and petty tactic on newbies for the reason i have put in my previous post but the reason why i came to this end is i opened the Map... and looked how big EVE is.... To prey on ppl who don't know the game, its in's and out's let alone know what its liked to have this type of exploit happen to them is plan and simple sad... I feel sorry for the ppl who have to resort to this..
To be honest, i don't know how you can curb/change this type of ploy...you could call it pilot etiquette....respect for fellow EVE players. Fair enough goto a < 0.8 system game on but in a 1.0 - 0.9 just give myself and others the time to learn and get to know EVE.
Anyway, myself it hasn't detered me one bit from EVE I hope that in the future i may fight with/fight against you.... ....Thank you all very much for posting and pointing out your views...ive learned something new...
Glad to see you're taking it well, welcome to EVE
Hit me up ingame sometime if you want, I've tried quite a few of the different career paths already so I'll be able to warn you of the pitfalls (No, really, don't train Exhumers V, you'll regret it )
|
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 11:24:00 -
[48]
Canflipping newbs is heartless and counter-productive to growing the game's community.
I hate newbie griefers with a passion.
|
Aaron Mirrorsaver
Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 11:31:00 -
[49]
afaik, griefing in newbie systems is bannable and can be petitioned if the parties dont stop.
i remember the issue to people killing newbies outside the station undock in their newbie ships in the starting systems. ------
GBC old timer. AKA "the dude"
I like your sig, I hope someday to be also referred to as ''the dude'' - Gneeznow
|
Amarr sin
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 12:08:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Landrassa} Hit me up ingame sometime if you want, I've tried quite a few of the different career paths already so I'll be able to warn you of the pitfalls (No, really, don't train Exhumers V, you'll regret it [:lol: )
Many thanks
|
|
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 13:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Canflipping newbs is heartless and counter-productive to growing the game's community.
I hate newbie griefers with a passion.
The cluster can't handle its current population. The more people evil griefers make quit the better the game becomes for those staying. Grief on, make them quit.
I'll reconsider my position when we can have a 20vs20 without lag. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Dianne
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 14:11:00 -
[52]
So, if im mining away , in a can, and a ship comes along side, opens my can, takes out my ore and puts it in his ore. Nothing happens to him, but if i shoot back or take the ore back, then i get flagged and he can blow me up??
Seems a little one sided... or will concord come along at some point and give me the ore back? Seems little deterent in taking ore from people if they do anything back, they become red too....
or am i missing something? not done much combat.
|
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 14:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dianne So, if im mining away , in a can, and a ship comes along side, opens my can, takes out my ore and puts it in his ore. Nothing happens to him, but if i shoot back or take the ore back, then i get flagged and he can blow me up??
Jettisoning was implemented to get rid of stuff you didn't want, to make room in your cargo, and taking from jettison can didn't do anything (wasn't considered thieving).
Then miners started using jettison can to improve their productivity and the ore thief profession was born.
Miners whined and whined and CCP implemented "can flagging", if one take from a jettison can he can get shot by the whole corporation (if not a NPC corp) for 15 minutes after he stole.
So the consequence for the thief is that you and your corp can shoot him. However, if you do shoot him, he can shoot back.
Many "thiefs" could not actually care less about your precious ore and want nothing more than to get shot, so they can shoot back.
And yes you can lose your barge to an industrial or a noob ship, and don't stand a chance to a T1 frigate. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Aramova
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 15:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
note CCP considers Jetcan mining an EXPLOIT....
Which is prolly why the can flipping tactic is what it is...
lol, and where did you get that notion from?
What else is an exploit? Guns in highsec? Are we going to get a Brady Bill passed in Jita?
________________________________
|
Aramova
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 15:59:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev And yes you can lose your barge to an industrial or a noob ship, and don't stand a chance to a T1 frigate.
You never saw my fleet Hulk setup have you? Kills ceptors and frigs dead. Seriously... ________________________________
|
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:04:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Aramova
Originally by: Lubomir Penev And yes you can lose your barge to an industrial or a noob ship, and don't stand a chance to a T1 frigate.
You never saw my fleet Hulk setup have you? Kills ceptors and frigs dead. Seriously...
Only if they are dumb enough to enter webrange no?
When I was in FW I found a Caldari militia Hulk in a neutral region that my improved shuttle (a Raptor) could not kill otoh. Packing seldom any close range ammo didn't help my case. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Nigel Sheldon
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:05:00 -
[57]
I must admit that I will never ever understand why pirates pick on obvious noobs, are you really trying to force people away from the game, thus making ccps's takings go down to (MAYBE) a point where it is unviable to continue producing the game. Yes it's a pirates way of making money, but seriously how much can you make from these poor noobs, you would make much more mission running! When you are noob and getting up and running in the first place it's hard enough to make the game enjoyable, but then to pick on them, ganking them and playing dirty tricks on them is damn right unfair...yes it's a cruel world and everything, but come on! The more people play the game, the better it will get cause ccp will have more iskies to play with...forcing noobs out of the game only goes against developing a better game for all. Personally I think noobs should be given a certain sector in space where they can learn the game and mine LOW ISK stuff so they can get their foot in the game..yes this will cause a lot of idiot pirates grief, but the more people who play the game the better it will become.
But like I said, it's a cruel world for noobs....pirates in my opinon are just cowards who aren't good enough to be in fleet combat!
|
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:12:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nigel Sheldon The more people play the game, the better it will get cause ccp will have more iskies to play with...forcing noobs out of the game only goes against developing a better game for all.
After 2+ years of seeing the population growing and the game worsening (lag mostly) excuse me if I put down the pink tinted shades. Population lowering would improve the game (lag) and the customer service (petition answer time) for one. Would be a nice wake up call for CCP too. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Valan
The Fated
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:15:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Aramova
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
note CCP considers Jetcan mining an EXPLOIT....
Which is prolly why the can flipping tactic is what it is...
lol, and where did you get that notion from?
What else is an exploit? Guns in highsec? Are we going to get a Brady Bill passed in Jita?
CCP didn't declare it an exploit because they couldn't come up with an alternative and everyone does it because lets face mining is seriously tedious.
It was declared an unintended game mechanic hence if you jettison something into space someone else can steal it. Carebears whined that people were stealing with no reprisal so CCP implemented flagging.
If you want to keep things in space use a secure can.
There have been a lot of unintended game mechanics in the past and CCP declare them exploits or not on a whim. Seems if you're well connected you get away with it.
/start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Roymundo
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:24:00 -
[60]
i'm new to this. is it possible to flip the can, move the contents, and then dock for the 15 mins untill the theft you die notice is gone. am i right that you can then go and retrieve that ore as your own without consequence?
|
|
Tiberius Maddox
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:47:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kira Novia I'm gone to Kisogo, flipped a new-players can, kill them, explained to them why and how it happened, and then purchased them a brand new mining frig with the best t1 frig gear for mining.
Am I griefing or teaching?
You decide.
Gee, I wish someone would teach me some lessons on battleships like that. I could use some new stuff!
|
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:14:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Roymundo i'm new to this. is it possible to flip the can, move the contents, and then dock for the 15 mins untill the theft you die notice is gone. am i right that you can then go and retrieve that ore as your own without consequence?
It's pretty unlikely than a "colleague" or the original owner won't have dealt with it by then tbh. And if it is about the ore, just steal in a hauler, but frankly swapping and docking for 15 minutes... Mine it yourself. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Karlemgne
Ghosts of the Revolution The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 22:38:00 -
[63]
Flipping cans in 1.0 systems is actually petitionable. Its considered griefing by GMs.
-Karl
|
MaidMarion
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 23:15:00 -
[64]
Edited by: MaidMarion on 28/08/2008 23:18:11
Originally by: Atlas Elestra
note CCP considers Jetcan mining an EXPLOIT....
Which is prolly why the can flipping tactic is what it is...
Exploit - NO.
Unintended game mechanic - yes.
This is why CCP condones can flipping outside starter systems.
How to tell your cans been flipped - it changes color to yellow, no? Not sure if open window representing can closes when you been flipped, but it should.. (haven't had the privilege in awhile).
|
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
|
Posted - 2008.08.28 23:44:00 -
[65]
I don't know where people come up with all these made up rules.
- Can baiting is petitionable
- Can flipping is not.
-----------------------
Personally I have no problem with people can flipping, the only thing I consider below the belt is looking in starter academy system belts for targets.
- If the person in question is such a noob they're not likely putting a jetcan to full use, that's what giant secure containers are for.
- Get your alt to sit next to you and store the ore for you, CCP like metagamers as they pay for more accounts.
- Why are you mining anyway? It's incredibly boring and incredibly unprofitable. the time/isk ratio for it is totally broken like a lot of things in this game. Go do missions like everyone else and their mother.
|
|
GM Krymus
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 00:23:00 -
[66]
To provide some much needed clarification on this topic - doing anything to trick new players into situations where you can destroy their ships in a rookie system isn't allowed (can flipping and leaving cans outside the station undock with 'free stuff!' would both fall under this, for example'). If you encounter such a thing going on, please petition it as soon as possible under 'harassment' so that we can look into it.
|
|
Soporo
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 00:35:00 -
[67]
Originally by: GM Krymus To provide some much needed clarification on this topic - doing anything to trick new players into situations where you can destroy their ships in a rookie system isn't allowed (can flipping and leaving cans outside the station undock with 'free stuff!' would both fall under this, for example'). If you encounter such a thing going on, please petition it as soon as possible under 'harassment' so that we can look into it.
Glad to see it confirmed. Again. Thanks.
|
Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 00:39:00 -
[68]
Lamb Korma, tbh.
|
DMAN666vic
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 02:46:00 -
[69]
Nasty trick
EVE Exclusive Specialized Search Engine - Search Only Eve Sites! |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 03:07:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Aramova
Originally by: Atlas Elestra note CCP considers Jetcan mining an EXPLOIT...
lol, and where did you get that notion from?
CCP has said that they did not intend for jet cans to be used as temporary ore storage. Having infinite free huge containers for mining that weren't intended is technically an exploit. It's just that CCP hasn't changed it and tolerates the exploit.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |