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LastTraitorStanding
Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:00:00 -
[61]
The "Waaaahh" is strong with this thread. -------------------------------- Semper ubi sub ubi
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:25:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun EVE: Online
A new game every six months
This is so sadly true.
Dont bother to set yourself training goals; dont train for anything specific, your gonna get hit with the nerf bat (usualy sooner rather than later)
GO GO ALL T2 weapons and ships, a nice 2 year train time to avoid your character being under par when your shipclass/race gets its turn in the "whining inspired dev loving lottery"
Dont bother seting virtaul material targets by investing billions in pods/ships/fittings as a few hundred whiners with 50M ISK drakes will have the game changed so they dont have to skill up/learn how to fly.
Dont bother thinking outside the "sand"box either; The sandbox is getting smaller and smaller, and f00king huge walls built round it.
waste. of. time.
And in answer to the common question. No; stuff is already earmarked for folks I know in game. Tears are already mixed with rum and drank down while singing a hearty sea shanty.
(I will excerice my sub money to whine on the forums; seems to be where the real game is played)
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:25:00 -
[63]
Originally by: LastTraitorStanding The "Waaaahh" is strong with this thread.
The fail with your tacklers is srong young one.
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:30:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Demiurge Ialdaboth I disagree, with the nerf viable ship options for PvP'ers greatly increase because your fit does not revolve around an MWD.
Ship fits universally fit a mwd not because of nanos, but because of bubbles.
No mwd? Ok, you die at the first gatecamp.
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Darknesss
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:35:00 -
[65]
CCP does it again, while we're at it lets go ahead with that carrier nerf to.
You are taking away the only defence against a ridiculous blob. My particular hesitation about the patch is scramblers turning off mwd, sure it may make sense on the drawing board but who the hell cares. Its absolutely ridiculous, arazu's and lachesis's will be unbelievably overpowered. If you want to reduce speed, fine, but for gods sake dont overstep the mark like you always seem to do.
If something is tipped one way on your balancing scales u just move the same weight to the otherside. People moan about speed and all this other crap but all you are doing is promoting numbers in an environment that cannot handle them.
Again i find myself asking whether these changes are brought about by people who play/know the game or people who think logic+imagination (ie. huge fleet fights are epic and lag free) = fun.
Normally i dont like to complain eve is a very unique game, but these kinds of decisions just turn this game upside down, small combat is being eroded away by blobs and lag and these kinds of nerf just twist the knife.
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Shubs
Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:41:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Darknesss CCP does it again, while we're at it lets go ahead with that carrier nerf to.
You are taking away the only defence against a ridiculous blob. My particular hesitation about the patch is scramblers turning off mwd, sure it may make sense on the drawing board but who the hell cares. Its absolutely ridiculous, arazu's and lachesis's will be unbelievably overpowered. If you want to reduce speed, fine, but for gods sake dont overstep the mark like you always seem to do.
If something is tipped one way on your balancing scales u just move the same weight to the otherside. People moan about speed and all this other crap but all you are doing is promoting numbers in an environment that cannot handle them.
Again i find myself asking whether these changes are brought about by people who play/know the game or people who think logic+imagination (ie. huge fleet fights are epic and lag free) = fun.
Normally i dont like to complain eve is a very unique game, but these kinds of decisions just turn this game upside down, small combat is being eroded away by blobs and lag and these kinds of nerf just twist the knife.
This /Signed.... Pack it up, Pack it in, come on let it begin!
*- Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo -*
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:46:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 26/07/2008 15:46:27 Only defense against a blob?
What about a blob of nano's you toon?
Defense agaisnt a 'blob' is avoiding the frickin blob, using scouts to dodge camped systems, and being smart about choosing targets in a non-nano world.
If you're sitting there, with your gang, playing 'you cant catch me' to a 50 man 'blob' on a gate, are you really playing the game? Wouldnt it be better if everyone didnt have to resort to the same low slot/rig setup??? People began to tank again??? Use scouts to see if there's a camp in the next system??? Use--gasp--frigates again to go fast?
These nano'ers have not a god damned argument. ----------------- Friends Forever |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:54:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 26/07/2008 15:46:27 Only defense against a blob?
What about a blob of nano's you toon?
Defense agaisnt a 'blob' is avoiding the frickin blob, using scouts to dodge camped systems, and being smart about choosing targets in a non-nano world.
If you're sitting there, with your gang, playing 'you cant catch me' to a 50 man 'blob' on a gate, are you really playing the game? Wouldnt it be better if everyone didnt have to resort to the same low slot/rig setup??? People began to tank again??? Use scouts to see if there's a camp in the next system??? Use--gasp--frigates again to go fast?
These nano'ers have not a god damned argument.
right, frigates still go fast I don't see the issue here.
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Murdoch Morf
Digital assassins
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Darknesss Edited by: Darknesss on 26/07/2008 15:44:20 CCP does it again, while we're at it lets go ahead with that carrier nerf to.
You are taking away the only defence against a ridiculous blob. My particular hesitation about the patch is scramblers turning off mwd, sure it may make sense on the drawing board but who the hell cares. Its absolutely ridiculous, arazu's and lachesis's will be unbelievably overpowered. If you want to reduce speed, fine, but for gods sake dont overstep the mark like you always seem to do.
If something is tipped one way on your balancing scales u just move the same weight to the otherside. People moan about speed and all this other crap but all you are doing is promoting numbers in an environment that cannot handle them.
Normally i dont like to complain eve is a very unique game, but these kinds of decisions just turn this game upside down, small combat is being eroded away by blobs and lag and these kinds of nerf just twist the knife.
edit: im fine with you reducing speed a bit, say 10-15% maybe a bit more, but like i said its never just a slight alteration its just shifting weights.
Signed
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AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.07.26 15:57:00 -
[70]
In my oppinion this nano-nerf comming is the best balance made to this game since they removed the cruise kestrels. Now a "normal" pvp gang will be made of more then 5 types of hacs and 2 types of recons. Keep up the good work CCP!!!!!
Next - remove the capitals from the game so ppl can go back to having fun in 0.0 again...
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Darknesss
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:00:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 26/07/2008 15:46:27 Only defense against a blob?
What about a blob of nano's you toon?
Defense agaisnt a 'blob' is avoiding the frickin blob, using scouts to dodge camped systems, and being smart about choosing targets in a non-nano world.
If you're sitting there, with your gang, playing 'you cant catch me' to a 50 man 'blob' on a gate, are you really playing the game? Wouldnt it be better if everyone didnt have to resort to the same low slot/rig setup??? People began to tank again??? Use scouts to see if there's a camp in the next system??? Use--gasp--frigates again to go fast?
These nano'ers have not a god damned argument.
You're stuck in the past, that would have been fine about 2 years ago, with the current eve population no it doesnt work you will have gangs staring at eachother through a stargate.
Im actually a huge fan of slow moving tankable ships but you theory drawing board guys dont have a clue, the game you talk of only exists in your heads, taking 2 large gangs against eachother isnt much fun at all, its a bit of a coin flip really.
Nano ships die all the time, there are already methods to combat it, ontop of that people pay for the privilige of their speed at a very high cost, yet those ships do still get caught out.
I wish it wasnt this way but an eve filled with slow tanking ships isnt an eve at all. Now i know this isnt a COMPLETE speed nerf but its too much and too soon, its changing the shape of eve combat in 1 move.
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Shubs
Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:11:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 26/07/2008 15:46:27 Only defense against a blob?
What about a blob of nano's you toon?
Defense agaisnt a 'blob' is avoiding the frickin blob, using scouts to dodge camped systems, and being smart about choosing targets in a non-nano world.
If you're sitting there, with your gang, playing 'you cant catch me' to a 50 man 'blob' on a gate, are you really playing the game? Wouldnt it be better if everyone didnt have to resort to the same low slot/rig setup??? People began to tank again??? Use scouts to see if there's a camp in the next system??? Use--gasp--frigates again to go fast?
These nano'ers have not a god damned argument.
Quiet Tool Pack it up, Pack it in, come on let it begin!
*- Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo -*
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Canock
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:17:00 -
[73]
EVEolution
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Napro
Caldari Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:17:00 -
[74]
Can someone explain to me how Nanos can both prevent blobs and "only" require falcons, rapiers, battleships with Neuts, etc. to be countered at the same time?
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:21:00 -
[75]
The arazu is now overpowered, because it can reduce your speed by 85% at shorter range than the rapier can use it's webs?
And the rapier has not been overpowered for all this time, reducing your speed by 99% (2 webs, you cant stack scrams to turn off MWD twice), at a longer range?
There us a delicious amount of "waah" in this thread. If you're so obsessed with speed and agility, use a frigate. You shouldn't get a 5 km/s ship that does 500 DPS with a decent tank due to resists / shield extenders.
Speed and "nano" tactics are still viable for the ships they were intended for: Frigates. HACs no longer take over the frigates role.
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Delichon
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:23:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun EVE: Online
A new game every six months
This is going straight into my sig, thanks :) ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. Next time they are going to nerf you directly. Eve Forums.
EVE: Online A new game ever |
Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 16:42:00 -
[77]
"Adapt or die" is a corollary of "EVE is a cold, harsh place." We all can disagree about the implementation of the two, but it's an undeniable fact.
So I would argue that it's hypocritical to claim that nerfs are bad, per se. A nerf is a nerf. Deal with it.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:03:00 -
[78]
ITT:
;-; I trained FOTM instead of what I like, now it's nerfed, and I can't keep flying these ships because I must now train the new FOTM.
I don't enjoy my ships enough to fly them now I only trained them because everyone else was nano-ing.
Halp.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:12:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/07/2008 17:14:09 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/07/2008 17:13:09
Originally by: Sorted
Dont bother to set yourself training goals; dont train for anything specific, your gonna get hit with the nerf bat
Investing in something very popular has always been a good way to lose your investment. Over-specialization was always risky too, even though it can provide better payoff for a while.
However, in EvE, your skillpoints towards certain things can always easily be used towards something else.
Hey, you trained Minmatar specifically for a Vagabond and now are training something else of a different race, you wasted, what, 3M SP at most (all other stuff like generic gunneries, navigations etc translate to all races). And that's if you were dumb enough to train a race for just one ship.
Also, if you fail to see the ways to adapt to this change, it just means you have no imagination and were a FOTM follower.
I thought anti-nano whiners sucked because of their horrible failure to adapt, but nano whiners suck equally bad for their failure to adapt tbh.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Upright
Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:20:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Aria Seniste Speed and "nano" tactics are still viable for the ships they were intended for: Frigates. HACs no longer take over the frigates role.
So what role should HACs have? DPS and tank? I can out DPS, out tank a HAC in a insurable ship for third of the price.
So what the hell should i do in my HAC now?
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Syniztur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:23:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Vaal Erit And who's to say that combat won't be 'laggier' since more blobs are needed with different roles and more blob-strategy and blob-tactics are needed.
Fixed 4 u.
-------------------------------------------------- | Do unto others, before they can do unto you! | --------------------------------------------------
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Slade Hoo
Amarr xPlaguex
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:24:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Upright
Originally by: Aria Seniste Speed and "nano" tactics are still viable for the ships they were intended for: Frigates. HACs no longer take over the frigates role.
So what the hell should i do in my HAC now?
rely on cruiser speed+signature radius while having nearly BC gank/tank. Its a big advantage over BCs post-patch
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Mrs Amadeus
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:26:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Upright
Originally by: Aria Seniste Speed and "nano" tactics are still viable for the ships they were intended for: Frigates. HACs no longer take over the frigates role.
So what role should HACs have? DPS and tank? I can out DPS, out tank a HAC in a insurable ship for third of the price.
So what the hell should i do in my HAC now?
I think this more points to issues with battlecruisers than HACs.
When all the tier 2 BCs came out they just stomped on alot of HAC roles.
This speed nerf is an important first step... I think signature radius should be boosted in importance so that there is a decent divide between applicable targets for weapon classes.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr xPlaguex
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:29:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Mrs Amadeus
This speed nerf is an important first step... I think signature radius should be boosted in importance so that there is a decent divide between applicable targets for weapon classes.
Importance of Signature WILL be much higher with the "introduction" of viable Afterburner Fittings.
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Upright
Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:31:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Upright on 26/07/2008 17:32:15 Are u guys serious?
Really are u f****n serious?
Agreed about Tier 2 BC, but it is a eg. Of how with this nerf a lot of other things will need to be nerfed, and others boosted, for this to work anywhere near properly.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:36:00 -
[86]
Apparently the devs don't realize that very few people have t2 polycarbons or snake sets All the idiot nano-whiners seem to think that ships are hitting like 5 km/s+. Barring the vagabond and interceptors, the average nano-ship with a good fit and good skills will go 3.5-4 km/s IN A STRAIGHT LINE (much less orbit, thus why you have to manually control it). That is not only very killable, but it shows that the devs haven't a clue and they just used all the snazzy stuff to construct a flawed argument.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:45:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 17:49:52
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Demiurge Ialdaboth I disagree, with the nerf viable ship options for PvP'ers greatly increase because your fit does not revolve around an MWD.
Ship fits universally fit a mwd not because of nanos, but because of bubbles.
No mwd? Ok, you die at the first gatecamp.
use a scout
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:47:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Darknesss Edited by: Darknesss on 26/07/2008 15:44:20 CCP does it again, while we're at it lets go ahead with that carrier nerf to.
You are taking away the only defence against a ridiculous blob. My particular hesitation about the patch is scramblers turning off mwd, sure it may make sense on the drawing board but who the hell cares. Its absolutely ridiculous, arazu's and lachesis's will be unbelievably overpowered. If you want to reduce speed, fine, but for gods sake dont overstep the mark like you always seem to do.
If something is tipped one way on your balancing scales u just move the same weight to the otherside. People moan about speed and all this other crap but all you are doing is promoting numbers in an environment that cannot handle them.
Again i find myself asking whether these changes are brought about by people who play/know the game or people who think logic+imagination (ie. huge fleet fights are epic and lag free) = fun.
Normally i dont like to complain eve is a very unique game, but these kinds of decisions just turn this game upside down, small combat is being eroded away by blobs and lag and these kinds of nerf just twist the knife.
edit: im fine with you reducing speed a bit, say 10-15% maybe a bit more, but like i said its never just a slight alteration its just shifting weights.
itll be hard for triumvirate, but you'll get over it
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McDonALTs
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Posted - 2008.07.26 17:56:00 -
[89]
Edited by: McDonALTs on 26/07/2008 17:56:59
Originally by: Darknesss
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 26/07/2008 15:46:27 Only defense against a blob?
What about a blob of nano's you toon?
Defense agaisnt a 'blob' is avoiding the frickin blob, using scouts to dodge camped systems, and being smart about choosing targets in a non-nano world.
If you're sitting there, with your gang, playing 'you cant catch me' to a 50 man 'blob' on a gate, are you really playing the game? Wouldnt it be better if everyone didnt have to resort to the same low slot/rig setup??? People began to tank again??? Use scouts to see if there's a camp in the next system??? Use--gasp--frigates again to go fast?
These nano'ers have not a god damned argument.
You're stuck in the past, that would have been fine about 2 years ago, with the current eve population no it doesnt work you will have gangs staring at eachother through a stargate.
Im actually a huge fan of slow moving tankable ships but you theory drawing board guys dont have a clue, the game you talk of only exists in your heads, taking 2 large gangs against eachother isnt much fun at all, its a bit of a coin flip really.
Nano ships die all the time, there are already methods to combat it, ontop of that people pay for the privilige of their speed at a very high cost, yet those ships do still get caught out.
I wish it wasnt this way but an eve filled with slow tanking ships isnt an eve at all. Now i know this isnt a COMPLETE speed nerf but its too much and too soon, its changing the shape of eve combat in 1 move.
20 t2 snipers + cov ops vs 100 bs clumsy blob camping a gate. The cov ops sets up position and snipers warp in outside of the rage of most of the enemy blob, gank a few and use drones to force a couple cepters to disengage and warp out if more dangerous enemy come near. The clumsy blob gets peeled like a onion though several weak spots that get set up by cov ops baised on whatever tactic is the most appropriate one.
However, since nano got beyond a joke, then tactics like the above became more and more harder to do since in 5 seconds the enemy is already on top of you with 80% of their DPS. Now with nano's nerfed, people can start using tactics again to massacre clumsy blobs.
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Veldya
Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.26 19:12:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Darknesss Edited by: Darknesss on 26/07/2008 15:44:20 CCP does it again, while we're at it lets go ahead with that carrier nerf to.
You are taking away the only defence against a ridiculous blob. My particular hesitation about the patch is scramblers turning off mwd, sure it may make sense on the drawing board but who the hell cares. Its absolutely ridiculous, arazu's and lachesis's will be unbelievably overpowered. If you want to reduce speed, fine, but for gods sake dont overstep the mark like you always seem to do.
If something is tipped one way on your balancing scales u just move the same weight to the otherside. People moan about speed and all this other crap but all you are doing is promoting numbers in an environment that cannot handle them.
Again i find myself asking whether these changes are brought about by people who play/know the game or people who think logic+imagination (ie. huge fleet fights are epic and lag free) = fun.
Normally i dont like to complain eve is a very unique game, but these kinds of decisions just turn this game upside down, small combat is being eroded away by blobs and lag and these kinds of nerf just twist the knife.
edit: im fine with you reducing speed a bit, say 10-15% maybe a bit more, but like i said its never just a slight alteration its just shifting weights.
You need to let go of the past. Nano Online is dead.
The regions are setup so they have choke points for a good reason, it was never intended for you to trivially bypass these choke points. It was never intended for people to trivially bypass regional defenses to strike at defenseless targets.
Coverts and the like are designed to be the ships you take behind enemy lines, they however, they have very real weaknesses when you engage in combat. Nano's are not invulnerable but they are extremely hard to take down compared to any other ship build option.
Eve mechanics were just not designed with those kinds of speeds in mind. Tracking and explosion velocity are not remotely coded in a way that they function at all vs ships that go ridiculously fast. Everyone who has abused nano ships do so because they know the mechanics are broken and look to gain an advantage from it.
Nano ships still die, of course they do. They either die to other nano ships or it is because of pilot error, it has nothing really to do with the skill level of the other pilot. How good the defending pilot is should be a significant element in any PvP encounter.
Some elements of the changes seem extremely dubious, like knocking out MWDs in addition to a significant reduction in speed, but that is what sisi is for. I want to see a good balanced system in play where multiple styles of play are viable. I don't like it that I am a Caldari pilot and my specialization is missile combat yet it is utterly worthless against nano ships.
You just need to accept that the days of abusing speed are soon to be numbered and focus on ensuring the new mechanics that come into place create a better environment. That is the only thing the anti-nano community wants, balanced gameplay. If the nano community had the same intention things would have never got to this point.
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